Do people understand that Black Cavair had enough b4 the race, The trainer, track riders, foreman, jockey knew she had gone over the top and were seriously considering scratching her the night b4 the race. Moody let her race anyway thinking her sheer ability would still get her over the line. In the run she also tore her quad, hence why she never travelled in the run. Unfortunatly the English never saw the best of her that day, but take nothing away from her, under the circumstances,it was one of her finest wins. And the 2nd horse has since conquered the world im pretty sure. And for the Frankel/BC debate, there shouldnt be one. They are both champions in different catergories and shouldnt be compared. Just enjoy them both
Spot on mate. This wasn't her best, no doubt about it. I actually think she did it in the stalls. Jumped very awkwardly I thought. However, with 58 wins between them this is the only definitive piece of evidence to measure Winx and Black Caviar on the international stage. So You Think won a couple of tight tussles with Workforce and Snow Fairy, two good horses but well short of champion status, and he was 4th in the Arc and got beaten by Rewilding, again a good horse, not a champion and two of his five group one wins were the Gold Cup at the Curragh, not the strongest group one contest traditionally. So a s much as we speculate that the best Australian horses are champion level we've yet to see one dominate the very best European opponents.
Black Caviar had a 30 hour flight to the UK and sustained a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroiliac during the final stages of the race. Racing over a straight six furlongs on rain-softened turf in a foreign country, in front of the biggest crowded she has seen to win her 22nd race in a row... Thats what I call a Champion
that was exciting! congratulations to both jockey and trainer for handling an 'awkward' situation with such humility and graciousness, very well spoken by both.
Unfortunately though there will be ppl that judge her on this race where she was clearly well below her best. When I saw Miss Andretti I thought it would a long time until there was another sprinting filly of her quality. MA would be a couple of lengths in front of the current crop, but BC was something else. Her Newmarket win was incredible... THAT BC would have won this race by 6-7L under a hold.
These are the words, verbatim, of Black Caviar trainer Peter Moody taken from the book written about her shortly after her retirement. QUOTE: "I've been around horses all of my life and I've never known one better than Black Caviar." "I find judging her place in racing history hard because I'm so close to her." "That's why I've always deferred to other people's opinions." "What I do know is this, Black Caviar is the finest horse I've ever seen or worked with........until I saw Frankel win on that Tuesday at Royal-Ascot." END QUOTE. Bottom line, I know it, Peter Moody knew it, and most logical racing fans know that had the two ever stepped on the same racetrack together that Black Caviar would've been little more than just a good tow into the race for Frankel. Period, end of statement.
She is a spectacular horse. Given the trip and her injury, and a jockey that quit riding, it is a miracle she won. One of the greatest sprinters of all time.
It's very hard to get a good image given the photographer would have to use a higher speed of film to capture Black Caviar. If they used the same speed film as for Farkemall the image of BC would be one large blur.
After scraping home at Ascot, She can never be compared to "His Majesty Frankel." What's Mr Moody doing these days -several years after his last foible? And when, more pertinently , is Oz finally going to win one Breeders Cup race? The U.K. has won over sixty and almost all by further than B.C. at Ascot in what was a very average sprint for the level.
If he had not pulled her up, there would have been no doubt. Hard to believe the boy did not know where the line was. She shipped thousands of miles, the rider stops riding, and she still gets there. You can fault her all you want, she looked to be running easily late.
thanks for the upload ,what a superb mare and the jockey almost screwed up ,she would have won easier if nolen had not eased her good for her she is really special.
Absolutely brilliant horse, with a brilliant effort, with a truly big man on board to admit making an error of judgement and thats all it was. They still won after travelling half way around the world, to compete on a different type of track on different ground conditions. Truly brilliant! Well done BC, jockey, connections, trainer and staff. It takes guts to do what you did by putting yourselves on a pedestal to be beaten. Not many of our European world beaters take on a similar challenge
Luke appreciated your subtle changes in balance with respect to the horse's centre of gravity at the end of the race. When an elite rider rides a horse that develops even a very mild soreness that is not visible in the gait during the ride, a way of detecting it is in the subtle changes of balance of the rider. The elite rider is so in tune with the horse that they adjust their balance, sometimes without realising it, to even a fractional, invisible change in gait. Luke you were superb.
Well said!! I think what people don’t realize is that Moody knew she was not right but never told Nolen. Poor Jock under all that pressure, found out the hard way and instinctively realized the big mare was hurting... he pulled her up to look after her... and was subsequently shocked how quickly she stopped!!! Then had to cope with the barrage of questions from journalists, very dutiful and diplomatic I must admit. Luke Nolen can hold his head high... he rode her well and according to her conditions..and as for BC ? A pure warrior of the ages... Forget fast times, records, and devastating victories over class horses... to run through such a pain barrier, on an undulating yet unfamiliar course to win at Ascot was to me her best win by far...
Her courage and will to win I believe is something that generally we don't attribute to much when talking about her ability because of the way she seemingly wins easy in most of her races, another race that comes to mind was the T.J Smith, Haylist was bolting and she lifted to beat him I'm not sure how many horse's could have run him down that day like she did!
@fussy bill Also Frankels queen anne stakes was the 4th fastest time at 137.85 , Goldikova 2 years ago ran a 1:37.74 , Ramonti in 2007 ran a 1:37.21 and the fastest was Valixir in 2005 at 1:36.64 and Frankel wins by 11 lengths against the smallest field in the ascot of 10 with a pacemaker Excelebration and Bullet train his raced in both of his races this year, his raced Excelebration 5/11 starts,
2 torn muscles in running + Severely bruised hind quarters in running + Didnt handle the track seemingly + Jockey eased her too soon = Still beating the best europe have to offer. CHAMPION of the world
For me she is a lovely girl with a beautiful nature. Watching her here its clear she hates having another horse around her, she clearly likes to pull away and be in front. There were a lot of fears she wouldn't race again she had hind quarter muscle tears and back problem, and despite all assurances the travelling to UK had not been good to her. She came home rested and has now won 25 straight and been retired to stud today. Fantastic girl
You usually would see a huge margin of victory, its scary that she still won after this. 'Muscle tears confirm that it wasn't just the jockey's performance that caused Black Caviar to scrape home by just a nose for her 22nd consecutive win.'
....to carry the culmination of things she took into the race particularly given the expectation but we had seen her run through the pain barrier before. Ive got no doubt she's the toughest horse mentally that I've ever seen and I've been doing it 41 years. That affected our thinking. If any horse could do it this horse could." Moody spoke to Luke Nolen about events back at home rather than the task at hand in the immediate lead up to the race. Moody would never sow a seed of doubt in his......
She ran this race several seconds slower than any previous race she ever had at this distance!! Even including her runs where she slowed at the end without finishing hard. Clearly well below her usual top form here... Yet she still won! Note: You can see she is uneven at the end, when she trots past the crowd.
Postcardtosser would have you believe the injury was made up... Soul improved about 10 L on his Australian form and Black Caviar was in fact only just better than a 5 times G1 winner filly... What a boob!
"Postcardtosser" writes B.Gardiner, Bob Gardiner and B.Gardiner2000.The poor excuse for a man who calls women trolls like he did Ann, and calls others who don`t agree with him "Rolf Harris"The truth about B.Gardiner is he has a ton of usernames and has given a ton of tips too. All were given close to race time, and all were the favourite. All have lost including Werther at odds on, the Melbourne Cup fav and the big race fav the week before the Melbourne Cup.
+ Listen Up Totally agree. She was so lame after that race. It took her 8 months to recover. She was fractious behind the barrier as well something she had never done in Australia. I watched it live and knew immediately she was not 100% going in to that race.
Christine, connections clearly suspected she would be fractious before the trip. It was pre agreed she would be taken down to the start in her own time and connections were given special permission for Mr Darrington ?? to calm her in the stalls. That last luxury would not have been afforded to the home contingent. The Ascot exec really wanted BC.Then there was the special suit she wore on the plane. They knew she was fragile !It is not really surprising that she under performed. The runner up is probably one of the most valuable mares in the world and was a top class miler so the result is still very very good.
The time was slower because the race was in UK.The UK give greater importance to watering. Animal rights is rightly a huge issue in horseracing here .The result is much more important here than the time. However, in this particular week (June 2012),the course had had torrential rain at the weekend so there was no need to water. Frankel was still able to come within 0.7 of one second despite the ground being good to soft on the Tuesday. His victory in The Queen Anne< in that very same week, is widely regarded as the greatest performance of the modern era, and I doubt it will be bettered in my life.
....tensor fasciae latae & was given sophisticated laser treatment which meant no swimming for 3 weeks. She was given the all clear days before travelling. Her 1st gallop in England revealed it was still sore. Her near front foot had not been right that entire prep. She pulled the shoe off it 3 times in 4 days in the week prior to leaving for England. The vet was strapping her suspensory, lasering her quad & had her feet and legs in ice buckets daily. Moody said " She was just dead set rooted "
What also must be considered is Black Caviar is now undefeated at 2, 3, 4 and 5YO across the past 38 months. Given mares are more prone to mixing their form, this achievement is not to be understated - Miss Andretti set 4 track records in a 9 month period then lost form. By contrast, Frankel is undefeated at home over the past 22 months. The only 2 times Black Caviar has won by less than 1 length, she sustained injuries. It is a pity that England did not see Black Caviar at her awesome best.
I'm glad she won. Great mare & very pleased for Peter Moody who, from the interviews I saw on UK tv is a great bloke. Lovely horse, I wish all the people comparing her with Frankel would shut up. Visually speaking Frankel was more spectacular, but they are equals in the formbook and both unbeaten..
You don't know what you're talking about. She was clearly the class of the field. She was flown a gazillion miles, dropped weight and then raced on a track that wasn't her usual. It's unfortunate that you cannot appreciate what this horse did, which was win her 22nd straight race and thousands of miles from home. She is a truly great horse. Comparing a female sprinter to a male miler is just nonsense. As for the field that was assembled, she can only race whoever shows up.
You know, Black Caviar was spectacular and that includes at Ascot. She traveled halfway around the planet to get there and that alone would make a difference.Then Nolen decides its over before he hits the line. She won in spite of it all. If this race didn't convince you of her greatness, the remaining of her 25 races should have.
You're right. I have completely missed your point. You don't have to have too much insight to see how much better Australian sprinters are than anywhere in the world. And to bet a far superior field than could be mustered anywhere outside of Australia shouldering a phenomenal weight (and spread) is the point. I'm pretty sure you'll find the timeform ratings support this argument.
Yes Lee, Vain was a champion in his own right...the race for me?... that IMO, makes her the best sprinter ever was her win against Haylist at Flemington, there was factors against her that day..coming back from 1400, not set for the race and Haylist running the race of his life, but yet she was still able to pull it off..she showed courage a plenty that day in a unofficial coarse record...Vain might of had a chance in Sydney, but at Flemington on her best day..the best ever IMO!
In the breeders cup classic of 2008, Europe had a one two with John Gosdens Ravens Pass beating Aidan O'Brien's Henrythenavigator, the surface was the artificial Pro Ride, the American's changed it back to dirt after this race to give the American trained horses more of a chance to win their race.
Soul was sent to the UK because he is a duff track specialist. On heavy going is if far from a "poor handicapper." Soul won a Group 2 Danehill Stakes, beating Buffering on heavy going. Buffering would be a consistent G1 performer anywhere in Europe.
You obviously didn't listen to what Luke had to say to the media after the race... He said he made a mistake and mis-judged the track, and to please not let his mistake take away from the greatness that is Black Caviar. She still won! Bring those horses over here after travelling a few thousand miles, in a box, not a huge amount of prep and then racing on unfamiliar ground! I highly doubt they would beat anything over here! Especially Frankel, Makybe Diva and plenty of others would beat him!
nolan is being extremely humble, she was hurting before the home straight and he nursed her. they have always nursed her. that is number one. this horse fit would have left a lot of space to second. you know that. you've seen her race.
Id hardly say the best that normally happens at york & doncaster for the 5furlong sprints but they are really tough courses with proper Hills at the end of teh run .
Can I ask though, as you're clearly a smart fellow, when it was announced that Black Caviar was going to run at Royal Ascot - did you think that she needed to do so to prove herself or was she already one of if not the best sprinter ever in your books? Being from Britain and owning a passion for seeing great horses I was a bit biased as I wanted her to come so I could see her in the flesh but I must admit I didn't think she needed to prove anything. "Just that she wasn't scared of flying?"
You have got it right Balmain with regards to the top 4 sprinters we've had, Todman, Vain, Manikato and of course Black Caviar. For me Vain & Black Caviar are a neck in front of the other 2 and Vain was every bit as good as the mighty mare
Black Caviar would have been a comfortable winner if the jockey hadn't eased up on her when he thought the race was won. Black Caviar was the fastest sprinter to race in Britain since the incredibly fast Abernant in the 1940s.
Excelebration is a dual Gr1 winner over 1600m. He ran on powerfully in the Prix De Jacque Le Marois to beat 9 other Gr1 winners in his last run, Beating Classic winners and previous Gr1 mile winners. Hes made to look ordinary by Frankel, Without Frankel in his era he'd be a 6 time Gr1 winning horse over a mile. He gets a mile alright...
You should know that she didn't not race at our biggest racing carnival the Melbourne Spring Racing Carnival due to her recovering from her injuries. If she wasn't injured she would have ran, it's that simple. She's since raced in and won 2 Grp1's at her first 2 runs back. Her Lightning Stks (1st race of Global Sprint Challenge) win she broke the track record clocking 55.42 for the 1000m. In 150+ years no horse has ever ran faster down the famous Flemington straight. What a horse !!
Frankel on his home track was dominant a bit like Sunline winning the 2000 Cox Plate by 7 lenghts. Sunline then took on the world and beat Fairy King Prawn in his back yard in Hong Kong - which stamped her greatness. Connections of Frankel will not want to take the risk of losing his unbeaten record by traveling and taking on a local champion. For those that rate Frankel as the best in the world, would he beat So You Think if they both contested the 2012 Cox Plate?
22/22 consecutive races- Black Caviar won. First race overseas, Diamond Jubillee!!! WEll done! whatever anyone says, i've won in her every race. The rest of you doubters, suck up your losses!
It's a shame you didn't get to see what Aus have seen, she looked out of sorts. But I'm of a firm belief that horses need to go out of their comfort zone to stamp themselves as great. She's done that. She's a world champion. Frankel is a domestic champion. When he stops racing the same horses in the same country at the same distance and starts winning, then I'll start to talk about him in the same breath as the other world champions
I was really hoping for a great win and I was expecting a 5 length drubbing but given that the jockey was adamant she didn't like the course and the ground was against her I think 3 lengths not too extended is how she should have won. Pause the video on 01:14 I think she would have been crossing the line then which is about 3 lengths in front of Moonlight Cloud. Don't forget bar her run in the Champions Sprint Moonlight Cloud hasn't been beaten more than two lengths since last years Guineas.
I never said that either. All things in perspective. Just don't rely too much on Timeform ratings which go against our horses and enhance English horses.
And as our learned friend has pointed out both Moonlight Cloud and Society Rock have come out and won Group 1s since this race and given that so much was against her a three length victory would have been an amazing performance, perhaps four if she was shaken up a bit. But then again you may well be right and would have won by ten lengths despite all of this. I guess we will never know eh?
I don't think she has won any group races on a track like Brighton, but I'd also add that there are no Group races held in Brighton in the UK or indeed at any similar tracks. Tracks are graded for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I most certainly prefer racing over here to the US or what I perceive Australian racing to be, but I feel that there is a much too dismissive attitude by many of her incredible feat. Indeed to win with what transpired to be muscle issues makes it all the more remarkable.
Interesting Luke blamed a "brain fade". Later it was discovered that she had been injured in the running, so he was probably being a bit hard on himself.
Comparing Black Caviar to Frankel is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good at what they do. Frankel is the world's best miler, and Black Caviar the world's best sprinter. I don't understand why there is any comparison.
To be fair to Black Caviar, Society Rock and Moonlight Cloud have seriously franked the form! And remember, she was eased down, first time in England and at Ascot on slower ground- a real champion performance. I'm in no doubt she could have improved on that showing but on form, Society Rock and Moonlight Cloud are the best two 6f horses in Europe, so she remains the rightful World Number 1 sprinter. As for Frankel, he is different league but that is not her fault!
Initially Overdose was entered too, back in April, but soon he was scratched due to his unfit condition. That was a bless he didn't succeed to get there. Maybe if the 2008-2009 Overdose would have go to Ascot races. Then tgey wanted him to compete with Black Caviar after a long illness including laminitis...crazy. Glad to be alive. Wish he would still. Black Caviar is a wonder mare. Wish i had the chance to be there and see her racing.
+Gábor Kővári Poor Overdose ! They stole an Abbaye from him in Paris ! He was bargain basement but became a legend ! His dad ;Starborough was a nice horse too !
+postcardterry Many horses including Marchand D'Or were eased on that void Abbaye race so i don't hink this was real competition. When Suborics realized what happened it was too late, Overdose could not be eased much.
+Gábor Kővári Hi, you know we loved Overdose too ! We like seeing diversity in racing ,and Overdose had a big following because we had heard all the stories, and the name ; THE BUDAPEST BULLET !R.I.P Overdose !
+Gábor Kővári You can check that by googling the race times and then Overdose`s ! If I have a chance, I will do it and let you know on Monday. He did look good that day!
+postcardterry Yes, he did. But of course there's more to the story. Tivadar Farkasházy's book Overdose - A veretlen 11 (The unbeaten 11) released at the end of 2008 tells about behind the scenes. Will discuss that more but not here.
.....jockey's mind. He once told Nolen if he ever got to the barriers and she didn't feel right, regardless whether god himself was there, he had the authority to dismount & have her withdrawn. Moody did not dare repeat those intructions "If I had legged him up at Ascot and said hey I'm not happy, if you're not happy pull her out and she goes out and gets beaten, all of a sudden its on him. I would never put that raceday pressure on him ". Former gun jockey & now tv commentator Simon Marshall...
Black Caviar was not herself that day yet she STILL triumphed. Moody recites "We walked her up in front of the Queen. I asked 'would you like to give her a pat ma'am?'. She was quite keen to. Black Caviar was standing there stuffed like she didn't have another step in her. The Queen was standing back wondering if she should give her a pat. I coaxed the mare to take 1 more step and she nearly collapsed. I though she was gonna lay down, she was that tired, she put her head in the Queens lap "
'' The Horses he beat in France were pluggers '' Are you for real? Cityscape won the Dubai Duty Free on Dubai World Cup night breaking the track record in the process, He beat a good field that night. Golden Lilac is a dual classic winning filly, Elusive Kate a Gr1 winning filly, Fallen for You won the Coronation Stakes at Royal Ascot, Most Improved won the St James Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot, Moonlight Cloud a dual Gr1 winning filly probably the best sprinter in Europe..
stop talking about times, it completely misses the point, not just of horse racing but of any sport. you only need to be the best on the day in the conditions and black caviar proved that on saturday. a truly gritty and unforgettable moment in australia's already rich sporting history.
Well said ducsdream - why the rivalry? They are different horses doing their great things in different events. No one compares the record of the Worlds' best sprinter Usain Bolt with the record of the world's best middle distance runner - whoever that is...... :) They are both great horses and a joy to watch...
No mate... the Breeders Cup is not a race, it's a series of races run over 2 days. The venue is shared around the major racing venues. This year it was held at Santa Anita, the last 2 years was Churchill Downs. The big race, the Breeders Cup Classic (worth $5m), is run on dirt over 2000m & always has been. The Breeders Cup turf ($3m) is run over 2000m on the traditionally tight inner turf tracks. They would never have subjected Frankel to dirt.. it's a rubbish racing surface ....
.....had marvelled over her appearance many times. He said " It was the worst I've seen the mare presented in the mounting yard. She walked past loping along with her head down. She looked dull in the coat, she looked tucked up, a little light in the flank, through the barrel, for her. She was agitated, kicking out at security men who got too close to her hindquarters. As a past rider those are the mannerisms you look for, You like to see a happy horse, quite clearly she wasn't at home. "
Society Rock missed the start badly. Unfortunate. However apparently Black Caviar had a torn muscle and also she travelled half way around the world. Great effort.
Boy, did she look unhappy and lame when trotting up the straight. She was so sore, as subsequent tests proved. Torn muscles and severe bruising. I could see clearly how hard she was blowing after the race. Her strapper could see it too, when he barked "Everyone out, out. at 8:50 and began walking her around. Her enormous heart won that race for her. She broke through the pain barrier.......amazing victory. Black Caviar = Equine Immortality!!
Even Aiden said SYT was not at his best under his tutelage...Frankel may beat him in UK but at the Valley in Cox plate he wouldnt see SYT's dust. Hes a cotton wool champ Frankel or Frankfurts as he is now being called.
I'm with you on that one mate. It's a pity that the conversation so quickly ends up at the bootlaces. Unfortunately this is a social media site. By definition it is open to all, including the ill-informed as well as the outright trolls and muppets... sometimes you just need to sift through the rubbish.
Let me just clarify about Black Caviar by the way. She has taken a lot of stick because she is compared with Frankel, which is unfair on her. I think she was clearly below par at Ascot- she looked jaded. But she walks away unbeaten. The only sad thing is that she couldn't stay here for the July Cup and really prove what a star she is.
....commentators made note of it PRIOR to her even going onto the track. She faced a bottomless track in the July Cup, ground she doesn't go on & she was pulled up at her latest after suffering bruising & a cut requiring stitches to her leg. She WON her other races emphatically charging to the line. Now remember Ortensia had won 1 Grp1 from 29 starts in Aust and is not rated among our best. In 6 International starts she's WON a Grp2 & 2 Grp1's with legit excuses in the others. She cannot......
Let´s get this straight: Out of the races in which Frankel competed there were 60 winners out of 243 races. 22 of them were Group 1 winners in 49 races. In total Frankel destroyed 40 horses that won 130 Group races. Any more questions? This horse has nothing less to show.
You cant keep adding up the same horses,half of frankels start were in four horse fields thats fkall.had to have a pacemaker as he couldnt let it become a true race and all the 4 horse fields he was in had his stablemate so there was only 3 really in the end
Спорт
It's amazing that she won after being "eased" a bit at the end on torn muscles...incredible heart!
Do people understand that Black Cavair had enough b4 the race, The trainer, track riders, foreman, jockey knew she had gone over the top and were seriously considering scratching her the night b4 the race. Moody let her race anyway thinking her sheer ability would still get her over the line. In the run she also tore her quad, hence why she never travelled in the run. Unfortunatly the English never saw the best of her that day, but take nothing away from her, under the circumstances,it was one of her finest wins. And the 2nd horse has since conquered the world im pretty sure. And for the Frankel/BC debate, there shouldnt be one. They are both champions in different catergories and shouldnt be compared. Just enjoy them both
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Spot on mate.
This wasn't her best, no doubt about it. I actually think she did it in the stalls. Jumped very awkwardly I thought.
However, with 58 wins between them this is the only definitive piece of evidence to measure Winx and Black Caviar on the international stage.
So You Think won a couple of tight tussles with Workforce and Snow Fairy, two good horses but well short of champion status, and he was 4th in the Arc and got beaten by Rewilding, again a good horse, not a champion and two of his five group one wins were the Gold Cup at the Curragh, not the strongest group one contest traditionally.
So a s much as we speculate that the best Australian horses are champion level we've yet to see one dominate the very best European opponents.
Old mate wasn't even really riding her either.. Just strolled her in
Comparing horses is a staple of the sport.
this race will be talked about for many years to come... amazing
Black Caviar had a 30 hour flight to the UK and sustained a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroiliac during the final stages of the race. Racing over a straight six furlongs on rain-softened turf in a foreign country, in front of the biggest crowded she has seen to win her 22nd race in a row... Thats what I call a Champion
that was exciting! congratulations to both jockey and trainer for handling an 'awkward' situation with such humility and graciousness, very well spoken by both.
by far the best sprinter I have ever seen any where.
Unfortunately though there will be ppl that judge her on this race where she was clearly well below her best. When I saw Miss Andretti I thought it would a long time until there was another sprinting filly of her quality. MA would be a couple of lengths in front of the current crop, but BC was something else. Her Newmarket win was incredible... THAT BC would have won this race by 6-7L under a hold.
These are the words, verbatim, of Black Caviar trainer Peter Moody taken from the book written about her shortly after her retirement. QUOTE: "I've been around horses all of my life and I've never known one better than Black Caviar." "I find judging her place in racing history hard because I'm so close to her." "That's why I've always deferred to other people's opinions." "What I do know is this, Black Caviar is the finest horse I've ever seen or worked with........until I saw Frankel win on that Tuesday at Royal-Ascot." END QUOTE. Bottom line, I know it, Peter Moody knew it, and most logical racing fans know that had the two ever stepped on the same racetrack together that Black Caviar would've been little more than just a good tow into the race for Frankel. Period, end of statement.
She is a spectacular horse. Given the trip and her injury, and a jockey that quit riding, it is a miracle she won. One of the greatest sprinters of all time.
Absolutely right.
This is Black Caviar's greatest moment, and an incredible moment in racing. The mark of a great great champion.
he never even got out the whip
Why they couldn't get Frankel and Black Caviar together for a photo considering they both lived in Newmarket for a short time is beyond me.
It's very hard to get a good image given the photographer would have to use a higher speed of film to capture Black Caviar. If they used the same speed film as for Farkemall the image of BC would be one large blur.
After scraping home at Ascot, She can never be compared to "His Majesty Frankel." What's Mr Moody doing these days -several years after his last foible? And when, more pertinently , is Oz finally going to win one Breeders Cup race? The U.K. has won over sixty and almost all by further than B.C. at Ascot in what was a very average sprint for the level.
@@terrybrowne124 He now trains a new star, Incentivise. Ranked 14th in the world.
Amazing champ. This proves it!
If he had not pulled her up, there would have been no doubt. Hard to believe the boy did not know where the line was. She shipped thousands of miles, the rider stops riding, and she still gets there. You can fault her all you want, she looked to be running easily late.
black caviar amazing!!!!!!!
thanks for the upload ,what a superb mare and the jockey almost screwed up ,she would have won easier if nolen had not eased her good for her she is really special.
Legend status, Australia loves you Black Caviar
Absolutely brilliant horse, with a brilliant effort, with a truly big man on board to admit making an error of judgement and thats all it was. They still won after travelling half way around the world, to compete on a different type of track on different ground conditions. Truly brilliant! Well done BC, jockey, connections, trainer and staff. It takes guts to do what you did by putting yourselves on a pedestal to be beaten. Not many of our European world beaters take on a similar challenge
Luke appreciated your subtle changes in balance with respect to the horse's centre of gravity at the end of the race.
When an elite rider rides a horse that develops even a very mild soreness that is not visible in the gait during the ride, a way of detecting it is in the subtle changes of balance of the rider.
The elite rider is so in tune with the horse that they adjust their balance, sometimes without realising it, to even a fractional, invisible change in gait.
Luke you were superb.
Well said!! I think what people don’t realize is that Moody knew she was not right but never told Nolen. Poor Jock under all that pressure, found out the hard way and instinctively realized the big mare was hurting... he pulled her up to look after her... and was subsequently shocked how quickly she stopped!!! Then had to cope with the barrage of questions from journalists, very dutiful and diplomatic I must admit. Luke Nolen can hold his head high... he rode her well and according to her conditions..and as for BC ? A pure warrior of the ages... Forget fast times, records, and devastating victories over class horses... to run through such a pain barrier, on an undulating yet unfamiliar course to win at Ascot was to me her best win by far...
25/25.Yegua mítica.
Irrepetible.Suerte en el haras.
Imposible no pensar en un cruce con Frankel.
OMG - what WAS Nolan thinking????? By the grace of God she won!
Her courage and will to win I believe is something that generally we don't attribute to much when talking about her ability because of the way she seemingly wins easy in most of her races, another race that comes to mind was the T.J Smith, Haylist was bolting and she lifted to beat him I'm not sure how many horse's could have run him down that day like she did!
go you beauty!
What a Beauty !!
So proud of her =;)
What a fantastic result for a fantastic horse
moonlight cloud was the best miler in europe the following season & was fortunate to finish so close in this race.
This would have to be her best win to date.... go Black Cav...: )
@fussy bill Also Frankels queen anne stakes was the 4th fastest time at 137.85 , Goldikova 2 years ago ran a 1:37.74 , Ramonti in 2007 ran a 1:37.21 and the fastest was Valixir in 2005 at 1:36.64 and Frankel wins by 11 lengths against the smallest field in the ascot of 10 with a pacemaker Excelebration and Bullet train his raced in both of his races this year, his raced Excelebration 5/11 starts,
2 torn muscles in running +
Severely bruised hind quarters in running +
Didnt handle the track seemingly +
Jockey eased her too soon =
Still beating the best europe have to offer.
CHAMPION of the world
Absolutely right!
wonderful
Thanks Nellie for being the greatest sprinter that this country has ever seen
For me she is a lovely girl with a beautiful nature. Watching her here its clear she hates having another horse around her, she clearly likes to pull away and be in front. There were a lot of fears she wouldn't race again she had hind quarter muscle tears and back problem, and despite all assurances the travelling to UK had not been good to her. She came home rested and has now won 25 straight and been retired to stud today. Fantastic girl
Black caviar got the key to melbourne!
spot on
Brings a tear to my eye, so proud of her as an aussie!
You usually would see a huge margin of victory, its scary that she still won after this. 'Muscle tears confirm that it wasn't just the jockey's performance that caused Black Caviar to scrape home by just a nose for her 22nd consecutive win.'
Nolen 2 out of 10. Caviar 10 out of 10. Grit and determination carried the lousy effort by nervous Nolen, to victory.
Black Caviar is God's masterpiece.
....to carry the culmination of things she took into the race particularly given the expectation but we had seen her run through the pain barrier before. Ive got no doubt she's the toughest horse mentally that I've ever seen and I've been doing it 41 years. That affected our thinking. If any horse could do it this horse could." Moody spoke to Luke Nolen about events back at home rather than the task at hand in the immediate lead up to the race. Moody would never sow a seed of doubt in his......
OMG love this horse :)
She ran this race several seconds slower than any previous race she ever had at this distance!! Even including her runs where she slowed at the end without finishing hard. Clearly well below her usual top form here...
Yet she still won!
Note: You can see she is uneven at the end, when she trots past the crowd.
Postcardtosser would have you believe the injury was made up... Soul improved about 10 L on his Australian form and Black Caviar was in fact only just better than a 5 times G1 winner filly... What a boob!
"Postcardtosser" writes B.Gardiner, Bob Gardiner and B.Gardiner2000.The poor excuse for a man who calls women trolls like he did Ann, and calls others who don`t agree with him "Rolf Harris"The truth about B.Gardiner is he has a ton of usernames and has given a ton of tips too. All were given close to race time, and all were the favourite. All have lost including Werther at odds on, the Melbourne Cup fav and the big race fav the week before the Melbourne Cup.
+ Listen Up Totally agree. She was so lame after that race. It took her 8 months to recover. She was fractious behind the barrier as well something she had never done in Australia. I watched it live and knew immediately she was not 100% going in to that race.
Christine, connections clearly suspected she would be fractious before the trip. It was pre agreed she would be taken down to the start in her own time and connections were given special permission for Mr Darrington ?? to calm her in the stalls. That last luxury would not have been afforded to the home contingent. The Ascot exec really wanted BC.Then there was the special suit she wore on the plane. They knew she was fragile !It is not really surprising that she under performed. The runner up is probably one of the most valuable mares in the world and was a top class miler so the result is still very very good.
The time was slower because the race was in UK.The UK give greater importance to watering. Animal rights is rightly a huge issue in horseracing here .The result is much more important here than the time. However, in this particular week (June 2012),the course had had torrential rain at the weekend so there was no need to water. Frankel was still able to come within 0.7 of one second despite the ground being good to soft on the Tuesday. His victory in The Queen Anne< in that very same week, is widely regarded as the greatest performance of the modern era, and I doubt it will be bettered in my life.
....tensor fasciae latae & was given sophisticated laser treatment which meant no swimming for 3 weeks. She was given the all clear days before travelling. Her 1st gallop in England revealed it was still sore. Her near front foot had not been right that entire prep. She pulled the shoe off it 3 times in 4 days in the week prior to leaving for England. The vet was strapping her suspensory, lasering her quad & had her feet and legs in ice buckets daily. Moody said " She was just dead set rooted "
What also must be considered is Black Caviar is now undefeated at 2, 3, 4 and 5YO across the past 38 months. Given mares are more prone to mixing their form, this achievement is not to be understated - Miss Andretti set 4 track records in a 9 month period then lost form. By contrast, Frankel is undefeated at home over the past 22 months. The only 2 times Black Caviar has won by less than 1 length, she sustained injuries. It is a pity that England did not see Black Caviar at her awesome best.
I'm glad she won. Great mare & very pleased for Peter Moody who, from the interviews I saw on UK tv is a great bloke. Lovely horse, I wish all the people comparing her with Frankel would shut up. Visually speaking Frankel was more spectacular, but they are equals in the formbook and both unbeaten..
You don't know what you're talking about. She was clearly the class of the field. She was flown a gazillion miles, dropped weight and then raced on a track that wasn't her usual. It's unfortunate that you cannot appreciate what this horse did, which was win her 22nd straight race and thousands of miles from home. She is a truly great horse. Comparing a female sprinter to a male miler is just nonsense. As for the field that was assembled, she can only race whoever shows up.
You know, Black Caviar was spectacular and that includes at Ascot. She traveled halfway around the planet to get there and that alone would make a difference.Then Nolen decides its over before he hits the line. She won in spite of it all. If this race didn't convince you of her greatness, the remaining of her 25 races should have.
i am just so happy for the horse
First was Phar Lap - Australian wonder horse - Now Black Caviar, Fantastic, lovely, Very exciting....
You're right. I have completely missed your point. You don't have to have too much insight to see how much better Australian sprinters are than anywhere in the world. And to bet a far superior field than could be mustered anywhere outside of Australia shouldering a phenomenal weight (and spread) is the point. I'm pretty sure you'll find the timeform ratings support this argument.
Yes Lee, Vain was a champion in his own right...the race for me?... that IMO, makes her the best sprinter ever was her win against Haylist at Flemington, there was factors against her that day..coming back from 1400, not set for the race and Haylist running the race of his life, but yet she was still able to pull it off..she showed courage a plenty that day in a unofficial coarse record...Vain might of had a chance in Sydney, but at Flemington on her best day..the best ever IMO!
In the breeders cup classic of 2008, Europe had a one two with John Gosdens Ravens Pass beating Aidan O'Brien's Henrythenavigator, the surface was the artificial Pro Ride, the American's changed it back to dirt after this race to give the American trained horses more of a chance to win their race.
Soul was sent to the UK because he is a duff track specialist. On heavy going is if far from a "poor handicapper." Soul won a Group 2 Danehill Stakes, beating Buffering on heavy going. Buffering would be a consistent G1 performer anywhere in Europe.
You obviously didn't listen to what Luke had to say to the media after the race... He said he made a mistake and mis-judged the track, and to please not let his mistake take away from the greatness that is Black Caviar. She still won! Bring those horses over here after travelling a few thousand miles, in a box, not a huge amount of prep and then racing on unfamiliar ground! I highly doubt they would beat anything over here! Especially Frankel, Makybe Diva and plenty of others would beat him!
as given up hope on bettering Frankel. After that demolition job last tuesday '' The best performance I have ever seen on a racecourse... ''
I definilty agree with you there,it takes a man with tru character to admit he made a mistake...The man is All Class on and off the track. ONYA NICK!
nolan is being extremely humble, she was hurting before the home straight and he nursed her. they have always nursed her. that is number one. this horse fit would have left a lot of space to second. you know that. you've seen her race.
That is Comedy of the finest nature
Id hardly say the best that normally happens at york & doncaster for the 5furlong sprints but they are really tough courses with proper Hills at the end of teh run .
Great horse!
Yes -he would.
this win shows just how tough this mare is can still win on a off day
justin you are right
yes, there were 80,000 people.
Can I ask though, as you're clearly a smart fellow, when it was announced that Black Caviar was going to run at Royal Ascot - did you think that she needed to do so to prove herself or was she already one of if not the best sprinter ever in your books? Being from Britain and owning a passion for seeing great horses I was a bit biased as I wanted her to come so I could see her in the flesh but I must admit I didn't think she needed to prove anything. "Just that she wasn't scared of flying?"
You have got it right Balmain with regards to the top 4 sprinters we've had, Todman, Vain, Manikato and of course Black Caviar. For me Vain & Black Caviar are a neck in front of the other 2 and Vain was every bit as good as the mighty mare
I actually read somewhere that Vain and BC are related
@@kazmungovan117 Vain is a relation on both sides of Black Caviar's pedigree
Black Caviar would have been a comfortable winner if the jockey hadn't eased up on her when he thought the race was won. Black Caviar was the fastest sprinter to race in Britain since the incredibly fast Abernant in the 1940s.
Excelebration is a dual Gr1 winner over 1600m. He ran on powerfully in the Prix De Jacque Le Marois to beat 9 other Gr1 winners in his last run, Beating Classic winners and previous Gr1 mile winners. Hes made to look ordinary by Frankel, Without Frankel in his era he'd be a 6 time Gr1 winning horse over a mile. He gets a mile alright...
You should know that she didn't not race at our biggest racing carnival the Melbourne Spring Racing Carnival due to her recovering from her injuries. If she wasn't injured she would have ran, it's that simple. She's since raced in and won 2 Grp1's at her first 2 runs back. Her Lightning Stks (1st race of Global Sprint Challenge) win she broke the track record clocking 55.42 for the 1000m. In 150+ years no horse has ever ran faster down the famous Flemington straight. What a horse !!
Frankel on his home track was dominant a bit like Sunline winning the 2000 Cox Plate by 7 lenghts. Sunline then took on the world and beat Fairy King Prawn in his back yard in Hong Kong - which stamped her greatness. Connections of Frankel will not want to take the risk of losing his unbeaten record by traveling and taking on a local champion. For those that rate Frankel as the best in the world, would he beat So You Think if they both contested the 2012 Cox Plate?
22/22 consecutive races- Black Caviar won. First race overseas, Diamond Jubillee!!! WEll done! whatever anyone says, i've won in her every race. The rest of you doubters, suck up your losses!
It's a shame you didn't get to see what Aus have seen, she looked out of sorts. But I'm of a firm belief that horses need to go out of their comfort zone to stamp themselves as great. She's done that. She's a world champion. Frankel is a domestic champion. When he stops racing the same horses in the same country at the same distance and starts winning, then I'll start to talk about him in the same breath as the other world champions
I was really hoping for a great win and I was expecting a 5 length drubbing but given that the jockey was adamant she didn't like the course and the ground was against her I think 3 lengths not too extended is how she should have won. Pause the video on 01:14 I think she would have been crossing the line then which is about 3 lengths in front of Moonlight Cloud. Don't forget bar her run in the Champions Sprint Moonlight Cloud hasn't been beaten more than two lengths since last years Guineas.
I never said that either. All things in perspective. Just don't rely too much on Timeform ratings which go against our horses and enhance English horses.
And as our learned friend has pointed out both Moonlight Cloud and Society Rock have come out and won Group 1s since this race and given that so much was against her a three length victory would have been an amazing performance, perhaps four if she was shaken up a bit. But then again you may well be right and would have won by ten lengths despite all of this. I guess we will never know eh?
I don't think she has won any group races on a track like Brighton, but I'd also add that there are no Group races held in Brighton in the UK or indeed at any similar tracks. Tracks are graded for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I most certainly prefer racing over here to the US or what I perceive Australian racing to be, but I feel that there is a much too dismissive attitude by many of her incredible feat. Indeed to win with what transpired to be muscle issues makes it all the more remarkable.
Interesting Luke blamed a "brain fade". Later it was discovered that she had been injured in the running, so he was probably being a bit hard on himself.
Comparing Black Caviar to Frankel is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good at what they do. Frankel is the world's best miler, and Black Caviar the world's best sprinter. I don't understand why there is any comparison.
To be fair to Black Caviar, Society Rock and Moonlight Cloud have seriously franked the form!
And remember, she was eased down, first time in England and at Ascot on slower ground- a real champion performance.
I'm in no doubt she could have improved on that showing but on form, Society Rock and Moonlight Cloud are the best two 6f horses in Europe, so she remains the rightful World Number 1 sprinter.
As for Frankel, he is different league but that is not her fault!
Initially Overdose was entered too, back in April, but soon he was scratched due to his unfit condition. That was a bless he didn't succeed to get there. Maybe if the 2008-2009 Overdose would have go to Ascot races. Then tgey wanted him to compete with Black Caviar after a long illness including laminitis...crazy. Glad to be alive. Wish he would still.
Black Caviar is a wonder mare. Wish i had the chance to be there and see her racing.
+Gábor Kővári Poor Overdose ! They stole an Abbaye from him in Paris ! He was bargain basement but became a legend ! His dad ;Starborough was a nice horse too !
+postcardterry Many horses including Marchand D'Or were eased on that void Abbaye race so i don't hink this was real competition. When Suborics realized what happened it was too late, Overdose could not be eased much.
+Gábor Kővári Hi, you know we loved Overdose too ! We like seeing diversity in racing ,and Overdose had a big following because we had heard all the stories, and the name ; THE BUDAPEST BULLET !R.I.P Overdose !
+Gábor Kővári You can check that by googling the race times and then Overdose`s ! If I have a chance, I will do it and let you know on Monday. He did look good that day!
+postcardterry Yes, he did. But of course there's more to the story. Tivadar Farkasházy's book Overdose - A veretlen 11 (The unbeaten 11) released at the end of 2008 tells about behind the scenes. Will discuss that more but not here.
what a lucky jockey very nice horse
.....jockey's mind. He once told Nolen if he ever got to the barriers and she didn't feel right, regardless whether god himself was there, he had the authority to dismount & have her withdrawn. Moody did not dare repeat those intructions "If I had legged him up at Ascot and said hey I'm not happy, if you're not happy pull her out and she goes out and gets beaten, all of a sudden its on him. I would never put that raceday pressure on him ". Former gun jockey & now tv commentator Simon Marshall...
Black Caviar was not herself that day yet she STILL triumphed. Moody recites "We walked her up in front of the Queen. I asked 'would you like to give her a pat ma'am?'. She was quite keen to. Black Caviar was standing there stuffed like she didn't have another step in her. The Queen was standing back wondering if she should give her a pat. I coaxed the mare to take 1 more step and she nearly collapsed. I though she was gonna lay down, she was that tired, she put her head in the Queens lap "
'' The Horses he beat in France were pluggers '' Are you for real? Cityscape won the Dubai Duty Free on Dubai World Cup night breaking the track record in the process, He beat a good field that night. Golden Lilac is a dual classic winning filly, Elusive Kate a Gr1 winning filly, Fallen for You won the Coronation Stakes at Royal Ascot, Most Improved won the St James Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot, Moonlight Cloud a dual Gr1 winning filly probably the best sprinter in Europe..
stop talking about times, it completely misses the point, not just of horse racing but of any sport. you only need to be the best on the day in the conditions and black caviar proved that on saturday. a truly gritty and unforgettable moment in australia's already rich sporting history.
Well said ducsdream - why the rivalry? They are different horses doing their great things in different events. No one compares the record of the Worlds' best sprinter Usain Bolt with the record of the world's best middle distance runner - whoever that is...... :) They are both great horses and a joy to watch...
She maybe best at 8 furlongs but at a mile zenetta wood of made her look like a nag
No mate... the Breeders Cup is not a race, it's a series of races run over 2 days. The venue is shared around the major racing venues. This year it was held at Santa Anita, the last 2 years was Churchill Downs. The big race, the Breeders Cup Classic (worth $5m), is run on dirt over 2000m & always has been. The Breeders Cup turf ($3m) is run over 2000m on the traditionally tight inner turf tracks. They would never have subjected Frankel to dirt.. it's a rubbish racing surface ....
.....had marvelled over her appearance many times. He said " It was the worst I've seen the mare presented in the mounting yard. She walked past loping along with her head down. She looked dull in the coat, she looked tucked up, a little light in the flank, through the barrel, for her. She was agitated, kicking out at security men who got too close to her hindquarters. As a past rider those are the mannerisms you look for, You like to see a happy horse, quite clearly she wasn't at home. "
Society Rock missed the start badly. Unfortunate. However apparently Black Caviar had a torn muscle and also she travelled half way around the world. Great effort.
Agreed.
A great mare.
Her injury was actually quite extensive. Two tears in her hindquarter. One a grade 4 tear. Amazing she won at all.
Boy, did she look unhappy and lame when trotting up the straight. She was so sore, as subsequent tests proved. Torn muscles and severe bruising. I could see clearly how hard she was blowing after the race. Her strapper could see it too, when he barked "Everyone out, out. at 8:50 and began walking her around. Her enormous heart won that race for her. She broke through the pain barrier.......amazing victory. Black Caviar = Equine Immortality!!
Even Aiden said SYT was not at his best under his tutelage...Frankel may beat him in UK but at the Valley in Cox plate he wouldnt see SYT's dust. Hes a cotton wool champ Frankel or Frankfurts as he is now being called.
when frankel wins 21 at home, and 1 International I think thats when we can compare the two, what u reckon?
What is its breeding, what has it won before, and what are the type of horses he has beaten?
I'm with you on that one mate. It's a pity that the conversation so quickly ends up at the bootlaces. Unfortunately this is a social media site. By definition it is open to all, including the ill-informed as well as the outright trolls and muppets... sometimes you just need to sift through the rubbish.
Let me just clarify about Black Caviar by the way. She has taken a lot of stick because she is compared with Frankel, which is unfair on her. I think she was clearly below par at Ascot- she looked jaded. But she walks away unbeaten. The only sad thing is that she couldn't stay here for the July Cup and really prove what a star she is.
The only sad thing about Frankfurt is he'll never race in Aus or America to prove what a star he is
TWO TORN MUSCLES...
SEVERE BRUISING...
BOG TRACK...
DUMB RIDE...
HUGE TRAVEL...
STILL WINS!!!!
Like to see her come to Santa Anita for the Breeders Cup!
....commentators made note of it PRIOR to her even going onto the track. She faced a bottomless track in the July Cup, ground she doesn't go on & she was pulled up at her latest after suffering bruising & a cut requiring stitches to her leg. She WON her other races emphatically charging to the line. Now remember Ortensia had won 1 Grp1 from 29 starts in Aust and is not rated among our best. In 6 International starts she's WON a Grp2 & 2 Grp1's with legit excuses in the others. She cannot......
Let´s get this straight:
Out of the races in which Frankel competed there were 60 winners out of 243 races. 22 of them were Group 1 winners in 49 races. In total Frankel destroyed 40 horses that won 130 Group races.
Any more questions? This horse has nothing less to show.
You cant keep adding up the same horses,half of frankels start were in four horse fields thats fkall.had to have a pacemaker as he couldnt let it become a true race and all the 4 horse fields he was in had his stablemate so there was only 3 really in the end