In Defense of Reusing Maps in Game Sequels
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- So the internet jumped the gun (SHOCKING, I KNOW) and crucified Tears of the Kingdom before it came out for reusing Hyrule's map. This is me arguing against all of you.
* And yes this is hyperbole and in reality not many people were that against the idea BUT I WANTED AN EXCUSE TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC DANGIT!
So please, join me as I try to figure out what makes Tears of The Kingdom - and sequels in general - become a better product due to its reuse of the first game's map!
I also apologize if I mispronounced anything, I'm not a native speaker :')
Catch me on twitch: / prismer
Catch me on twitter for news on other videos and random musings: / przmer
Thumbnail by Jupiter# 7544 (on discord)
#tearsofthekingdom #videoessay #breathofthewild
The fact that they used the original world for the sequel makes total sense story-wise.
Agreed!
i double agree here, and they got rid of the ancient tech used in botw
As a Journalism student, I had a hearty giggle at the intro joke😂😂
Hahahahah I was hoping at least one journalist would watch this! I might not use my degree for work but AT LEAST I CAN USE IT FOR SILLY JOKES!
I think it works. In Breath of the Wild, you had no idea where to go or what you would find there, or what you should do. In Tears of the Kingdom, you kind of know what to expect location wise, and some of the items you will find, but locations have changed and items will be in different locations. And then there is everything that is completely new. So you get to experience a sense of discovery in a different way.
That's a good point, actually - a difference sense of discovery, but one that is just as valid nonetheless. That's a really nice way to look at it, thank you for sharing!
MINOR SPOILER
not just the fact that they changed locations, but the fact that the amiibo equipment is also available in game and in areas that you explore in the depths. i was kinda shocked to see amiibo gear being found in game and it game me a whole new love for the game cuz ok yeah u could use the amiibo, but hen you miss out on exploration xD still miffed the amiibo fabrics arent available in game but meh still a nice addition and welcome change.
@@Aqsticgod Yeah, miffed about that too. THE AMIIBO FABRICS LOOK SO GOOD! That being said, I agree that it's really cool that we got the amiibo gear - legitimately some of my favorites!
Excelent Analisis! You really put in words lots of stuff I was thinking about but could not really explain. As well as giving me a new perspective into some of this stuff..
Great video! First one of yours I have watched but definitelly subscribing!
Edit: Answering your question, I think if more games reused maps in this ingenious ways, it is actually better than doing something definitelly new.
While playing Tears of the Kingdom I noticed I am already attached to THIS hyrule, so this definitelly gave me more emotions than a new world would have (have not yet finished the game though, taking my sweet time)
Hey, thank you Ignacio! Both for the compliment and for answering the question! I fully agree. TOTK really sold me on the idea of reusing a map for a sequel, which is something I hadn't really considered before. And the emotional attachment is absolutely something I didn't mention, but now that I read on your comment, I should have! The whole reason WHY I was so dedicated to getting to the plateau, the island and tarrey town was precisely because of the memories I have associated with these locations. It feels great to be able to revisit in a new setting, almost like going back to your favorite vacation spots irl.
If this turns into a trilogy the next thing is to have a earthquake and flood so we can explore beyond hyrule
Hahahah just destroy the whole thing so Link has no excuse but to go to another location. I’d unironically really enjoy a sequel like that though, except involving time travel. Back and forth between a broken future and a distant past or something. The series has meddled with time travel so I’d love it!
Thank you for making a video about this. Even before totk was out i didn‘t really understand this complaint about resusing the map. And now that it‘s out for a little while and most of us played it for dozens of hours already it becomes even more clear that this is completely different game than botw. Like you can‘t walk 10 steps in totk without finding something new that was never in botw.
And the most insane thing about this discussion is that the reused map is only like half the locantions in this game. The sky islands alone make a make big difference already and then you look at the underground and realize there is a completely new world down there.
Great video keep it up!
Precisely! So much has changed! I get the complaint - at surface level (as in, metaphorically, not the Hyrule surface), it may seem to some that reusing a map = nothing new. But it really only takes 30 more seconds of pondering to think of the MANY possibilities in which a map can feel fresh despite being reused. I'm glad TOTK turned out to be such a success and not even feel like the same surface map (this time in the literal sense heh) of Hyrule, mostly because it provides a solid example we can point to when we want to make the case that reusing maps does not mean laziness. Also hopefully some folks learned not to be too quick to judge. It's okay to come out with your worries to start a discussion, but I feel like doomposting about a game that has yet to come out is a tad too far.
And thank you for the compliment!
I really like the apple and orange analogy. I don't think there is anything wrong reusing maps as long as it is done well. FFX2 does it fine and make sense in that game, and GTA3 and Liberty City Stories works fine there too
Exactly, agreed! I actually had more trouble coming up with examples of games in which this decision felt lazy, to be honest. I'm sure there are tons but I didn't mind any of the ones I knew.
Those games also didn't make people wait for 6 years...
Honestly I love zelda but its the lore that i really love and part of that is the geography. Now lore for botw and totk is horrible(as far as timeline placement) and wonderful [as far as new story). But i like that the geography didnt change, but time has passed so we see that. The game is absolutely better for having a consistent geography but a changing world.
"Consistent geography but a changing world" is a great way to put it! Fully agree! And regarding lore/story, you reminded me I need to look up the theory about how this connects to the other timelines, if fans did theorize about that already. They had a pretty cool theory for BOTW so I've been curious ever since TOTK was announced.
@@prezmer sadly in botw the starting area was the birth place of hyrule you could find remnants of oot castle town, now totk throws a who wrench into that, cause the castle is now from ancient times
purah was 120 years old in BOTW, she was messing with age-altering tech that she messed up and caused her to look like a kid. in TOTK, she perfected it and is young looking despite being ~125 years old
We don't know how many years has passed since Botw. But 5 seems little.
There's a quest that shows a character that was born after the final battle in Botw and is in maturing ages in totk, in my opinion there has been around 12 to 15 years.
@@kokalombia I do wonder how long it's been. I beat the game but haven't done EVERYTHING yet so I'm hoping there's an answer somewhere... but somehow I doubt it. A decade seems accurate but at the same time, one of the devs stated that the game takes place "shortly after the end of the previous game" so I have no idea. It can't be that shortly after though, because as you said, the kid's there and aged. (interview's here btw: www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2023/May/Ask-the-Developer-Vol-9-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Tears-of-the-Kingdom-Chapter-1-2383804.html )
And to @sailorsaturn4920 - thanks for the clarification on Purah! World's healthiest 120something hah.
Great video dude, very eloquently put and I enjoyed the silly jokes peppered throughout it. I admit when I found out they reused the same map I was put off for a bit but hearing your opinion has made me reconsider. Also, the "crucified" bit in the video description is very fitting since that's what players are doing to all of the koroks.
Am I horrible human being for actually loving the korok memes? the one with the korok rotisserie is just perfection. And thank you for the kind words!!!
@@prezmer Not at all! I like to think of myself as a decent person and I find the korok memes hilarious. It's cathartic because the little buggers are infuriating to hunt down. And you're very welcome!
My biggest problem with using the same map was the koroks. It felt like more than half of them I got by lifting a stone and I wouldn't be surprised if some of those stones also had a korok in the previous game.
Maybe they should have hidden the koroks in the depths, but that would actually be a p.i.t.a. if they were too well hidden.
Oh god don't get me started on koroks. I love them but at the same time I hate them??? THAT DAMN LAZY KOROK THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN TO HIS FRIEND IS THE WORST. I mean some are pretty cool challenges but some are just.... ugh. I thought about them hiding koroks in the depths too but as you say, it would've been a major pain, especially if the map is dark. And illuminating the map just to then re-explore it looking for koroks is... blergh.
But yeah, thanks for the comment! I didn't even think about the korok argument back then. Now i'm curious to see a comparison and if there are spots that are exactly the same... though I doubt anyone will ever take on this herculean task.
I dont much care that they reused the map, i just wish there were more interesting locations to see. The depths were good, but to much of it is a barren wasteland, And the sky goes incredibly underutilized. The fact that most of your time up there is right at the beginning of the game is baffling to me.
Definitely wanted a few more islands up in the sky as well!
did people think like they are going to make a botw sequal that takes in place like tamriel or middle earh?
Bahahahah you made me giggle like a maniac mid work shift, thank you for that
@@prezmer your welcome glad that i can help
i think this argument against totk is twofold, 1 is the idea of reusing the same map, its as you said, why complain when so many other games do it and no one complains, to add to that i dont know why they were expecting anything else, everyone speculated onbeing able to go past the borders and visit a new land but nintendo and the game never suggested as much, so this is a classic case of personal expectations not being met based on theories that had no base. the second, and this comes after the game came out, is the fact that the game is running on a 6 year old hardware and barely stutters, runs magnificently, has a decent open world, and a physics engine that still baffles everyone including myself, meanwhile PC xbox and ps5 are being met with AAA multi million dollar games that come out broken, unpolished, and we have to wait years before we get the actual intended working final product, a classic case of envy and jealousy.
Yeah, the game runs well - which is hilarious when you consider pokémon sword/shield and scarlet/violet are also nintendo products on the same system. Gamefreak really has no excuse. And the point you raise about people projecting their unfounded expectations onto the game and coming out disappointed is pretty accurate! I feel like this happens with a lot of high profile games, which is an interesting phenomena.
"So many other games do it and no one complains" That is the most braindead fanboy take I have ever heard
Eh, if the next Horizon game (Horizon is awful btw) uses mostly the same map plus a some underground areas. People would be furious
Probably, as some were for Tears of the Kingdom. But I think it's not the terrible thing that it may seem at first glance - TOTK did it right for example, by changing so much stuff that the world somehow managed to feel fresh. Admittedly, not many are the devs that can pull that off.
Imagine being upset that WWI and WWII used the same planet😂😂
Hilarious to me how people were so hyped for stuff like No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk but when Nintendo showed TotK people were quick to complain.
It really is interesting to see how the cases are mirrored, isn't it? Your two examples flopped on release (well, as in, sold extremely well but were quickly shunned in reviews), while TOTK managed to probably secure its spot as game of the year.
I bet the same people who complained about the re used map also think Pokemon emerald / black-white 2 are perfect games.
Edit: The only real criticism I personally have for the reused map is that all the guardian "corpses"? Are just gone.
Who cleaned them up?
It's just jarring, especially because it feels like this game could take place anywhere from weeks after botw to up to 10 years (entirely basing that off purah looking like a child in botw and now looking like a young adult (not up to a point in the story where the time jump from botw is explicitly stated, if it even is)
Oh my god, you just reminded me of how confused I felt when playing emerald for the first time. I HATE water routes in pokémon games so you can imagine Hoenn is to this day one of the regions I like the least. So replaying through it was not great. But then I got to the battle frontier and everything changed. I still miss the battle pyramid ): But yes I agree with your point and this has nothing to do with it, I just wanted to share hah.
And regarding Zelda, not even just the guardian corpses, everything just randomly vanished. Old shrines, the towers, the sheikah slate... it's very weird. I can see people removing the guardian corpses depending on how many years have passed but all the shrines and the towers? Unless they were designed to vanish again with the calamity beaten, idk.
Non of your arguments about the map "feeling" new holds up when you can easily bring up a person who played botw alot and who can realise nothing much significantly changed on the surface (outside of the main dungeon locations), and the only means of enjoying the surface past some sidequests is just zooming across the map, this is no longer exploration, its just hunting for new content. The novelty of the familiar will fade and the game fails completely in making engaing new places to explore
The new content in totk is worse than what they made in botw.
The depths and sky islands combined dont compare to the diversity of places and biomes in botw hyrule.
Even content wise the depths is lacking severely, outside of some zonite collections, amibo armor loot that makes no lore sense, and lighting up some roots, its got nothing of substance, that justifies its size, it even reuses the main dungeon bosses, even botw didnt do that.
The sky and depths dont feature anyhting like unique npc, ancient towns, or ancient zonai ghosts, only rarru and minaru in this game. Nothing can be learned from their culture other than they liked mining alot
Imgaine if hyrule was just a desert, and that was botw's whole map, people would shit on it, that's how the depths feel past the novelty of lighting up a few roots
How da hecc do you only have 369 subs???
Ahh thank you so much for the kind words!
377 subs, share this video with your friends