Cannot believe the video I am watching is actually from 2008 when I just attended college. Now it's 2021, 13 years passed by, and I visited this since Linus just released Linux 5.12 the Frozen WasteLand
Great talk -- Greg is obviously very knowledgeable, and he's a positive force in the community. He's poured a ton of effort into the kernel, and he actually likes to document things (Linux Kernel in a Nutshell, LDD3ed, LWN articles, etc.). Respect, man. BTW Greg, it's "ostensibly" NOT "obstensively" ;-)
I learned quite a lot on how they assemble the code and make it work. It looks like a really good way for the developers to work. They don't have that kind of pressure most developers have on their backs. Especially since a lot of the contributors really are "hobbyists" that slap together some code. Open source seem to be really effective, more than I initally thought. Thanks for this video Google.
While there's only one other dev from Google in the Top-20 devs (Will Deacon #20 doing Android stuff, Andrew #8), based on changesets Google is actually number 6, while based on lines changed Google's #4. Most of that is in the network subsystem (Google = network company) and Android-related, especially drivers.
I agree with Greg that Google doesn't contribute back enough with the linux kernel. That's a shame 'cause Google is a great company IMO and they should give back a lots more to the community.
As henrythesteinberg pointed out it is a Operating System so it doesn't matter which machine you buy/own. Furthermore it is completely free and therefor you won't be wasting money on anything. And at last it doesn't suck it just does things different from Windows and OSX.
I don't have too much knowledge of the Windows core, but I think it's an extreme example of a monolithic kernel (Even IE is integrated in the kernel). BSOD's are caused by (usually) bugs in device drivers, whereas in Linux and *BSD, only the drivers fail, not the entire system.
There only around 25.000 lines diffrence (btw there more changes in power managment), but most other features works the same, mainline updates effects Android, lot of manufactures submit patches for android use right to mainline (for example latest Samsung's F2FS file system support). No to mention there project that target is to bring features added in Android patch set for kernel to mainline, so it's only matter of time when android will run on mainline kernel.
@martinmartiini He doesn't mean snapping chips in two. Say person X submits a patch, dealing with graphics cards. That patch makes the output of the graphics cards behave erratically - they're not being controlled properly by the kernel. Person X is said to have "broken" the graphics card - with that kernel, it no longer functions as it should.
Actually Greg got it wrong with Cononical: They got 6 changes in 2.6.26, not 6 changes in the last 5 years. Much more but still not much. I crated an idea on brainstorm.ubuntu to fix this ;) (search for "Contribute to the kernel" as i cant post a link here)
Great guy, linux is lucky to have him... I recently started running linux ubuntu, and have had a very easy time installing and dual booting, just one thing I couldent get to work was the sound.. Stuipd creative dosn't make a linux driver for high end sound card :\ beta versions are out but its a bitch getting it to work.
@stephenmneedham Yep, am using it right now, and have been for years. It's different and in my opinion worth the change. I wouldn't really like to see MS or Mac stopped. In my opinion you need to have competition in order to produce good software.
I agree that Linux is sort of the "monopoly" in the open source world, other projects doesn't get as much attention as Linux. I recon you have tried a microkernel OS, if so, is it good? As I understand it, multitasking is a bit more "difficult" (In the terms of speed and stability). Though I really like the idea that each device driver isn't included in the kernel itself, Linux and *BSD has traces of that (Graphic cards for instance).
@ThunderAppeal Money, market share, etc. And aren't they legally bound by support agreements they laid out? When you have billions at stake someone is going to make sure that doesn't happen. And that's why I like Linux. Giving consumers options is a good thing and competition keeps companies on their toes. With Linux a distro walk out or abandonment is much more likely. Not that Linux will ever go away but a distro can. And if you depend on that distro it could be a problem.
Heh, strange. Isn't there any error file in xorg? I haven't had any GUI related crashes so I haven't poked around there so much. Incorporating everything in the kernel might be fast, but it's on the expense of stability and security, something I don't like.
@stephenmneedham If by "using it" you mean "using Linux" and as a replacement for Windows on the desktop, then yes I am - I'm typing this on Linux, and I personally love it. If you're interested I encourage you to give it a shot. It's free :)
@TheDeadlyPythonTube what you say would be true, if Linux Kernel would be Microkernel, or even Hybrid kernel. Since you can put drivers/file system stuff, inside the kernel, thigs usually become even more stable/fast. Btw, have you ever compiled your own Linux kernel? I gues no, because you would've known that you can make extremely lightweight kernel, by not compiling stuff you don't use.
It's not there fault that technology goes that fast ;p they need to support new hardware new technologies and they need to optimize and fix in same time.
@JonJon90245 It's worse than you think. In Linux you can fix something yourself but in Windows you don't have the chance. Don't get it wrong, the patches get reviewed, tested and signed. Linux enthusiasts are usually well educated folks, don't think about them as second class people.
@roflschofel NOT even indirectly, IBM has absolutely NO influence, whether direct or indirectly. Linux might be funded by big name companies like IBM, Intel, etc. but funding does not necessarily mean influence. The drive of kernel development is not affected by funding from big name companies. Its the community of people who are contributing to the kernel. Google it. But funding will help the development of kernel but its not the drive of the linux kernel development.
@snguy90 i watched the video i don't know if you watched it! yourself .. microsfot doesn't influence linux at all in what sense are they doing so? i think you are just saying things that you are not aware about!
i think Linux is the only hope for developed countries to contribute in the field of IT and stop the evil companies such MS from dominating the this field ...
@JonJon90245 Just because 18.5% are amateurs doesn't mean they're contributions aren't quality. You have students and professors and other qualified people adding to it. I'm sure most of them are more qualified to contribute to a huge project like this than you are.
@xm4nfedoralinux Linux will at most take a chunk out of Microsoft. And the problem with open source is accountability. The fact that they owe you nothing and can just walk away from this at will is a huge problem from a business stand point. I really hope these people are being paid for what they do. If not this is a big waste of talent.
One of my life long goals is to understand the kernel and contribute it.
Its my only goal xD
So, 6 years later, have you achieved that goal? Just asking because I have the same goal
@@jamesb6990 So, 3 years later, have you achieved that goal? Just asking because I have the same goal
@@ddesy So, 2 months later, have you achieved that goal? Just asking because I have the same goal.
So, 4 days later have you achieved that goal? Just asking because I have the same goal.@@felixfourcolor
Cannot believe the video I am watching is actually from 2008 when I just attended college. Now it's 2021, 13 years passed by, and I visited this since Linus just released Linux 5.12 the Frozen WasteLand
Great talk -- Greg is obviously very knowledgeable, and he's a positive force in the community. He's poured a ton of effort into the kernel, and he actually likes to document things (Linux Kernel in a Nutshell, LDD3ed, LWN articles, etc.). Respect, man. BTW Greg, it's "ostensibly" NOT "obstensively" ;-)
I learned quite a lot on how they assemble the code and make it work. It looks like a really good way for the developers to work. They don't have that kind of pressure most developers have on their backs. Especially since a lot of the contributors really are "hobbyists" that slap together some code. Open source seem to be really effective, more than I initally thought. Thanks for this video Google.
Read BIOS Disassembly Ninjutsu Uncovered, Understanding the Linux Kernel, 3 editions. Those are must reads.
This was 9 years ago. I wonder how things are looking in 2017 :)
what about 2020? :)
and 2021?
While there's only one other dev from Google in the Top-20 devs (Will Deacon #20 doing Android stuff, Andrew #8), based on changesets Google is actually number 6, while based on lines changed Google's #4.
Most of that is in the network subsystem (Google = network company) and Android-related, especially drivers.
I agree with Greg that Google doesn't contribute back enough with the linux kernel. That's a shame 'cause Google is a great company IMO and they should give back a lots more to the community.
As henrythesteinberg pointed out it is a Operating System so it doesn't matter which machine you buy/own. Furthermore it is completely free and therefor you won't be wasting money on anything. And at last it doesn't suck it just does things different from Windows and OSX.
That was one of the best keynotes ever
I don't have too much knowledge of the Windows core, but I think it's an extreme example of a monolithic kernel (Even IE is integrated in the kernel).
BSOD's are caused by (usually) bugs in device drivers, whereas in Linux and *BSD, only the drivers fail, not the entire system.
I'd hate to picture developing the kernel! Think of all those conflicts that you have to resolve :P
I love Linux .. I'm on OpenSuse 10.3 ..I don't need Kaspersky to browse the net ..Can we expect a modular linux kernal instead of monolithic ..
There only around 25.000 lines diffrence (btw there more changes in power managment), but most other features works the same, mainline updates effects Android, lot of manufactures submit patches for android use right to mainline (for example latest Samsung's F2FS file system support). No to mention there project that target is to bring features added in Android patch set for kernel to mainline, so it's only matter of time when android will run on mainline kernel.
@martinmartiini He doesn't mean snapping chips in two. Say person X submits a patch, dealing with graphics cards. That patch makes the output of the graphics cards behave erratically - they're not being controlled properly by the kernel. Person X is said to have "broken" the graphics card - with that kernel, it no longer functions as it should.
thank you
it's xnu, which is mach + bsd (bsd part is based on freebsd)
Actually Greg got it wrong with Cononical: They got 6 changes in 2.6.26, not 6 changes in the last 5 years.
Much more but still not much.
I crated an idea on brainstorm.ubuntu to fix this ;)
(search for "Contribute to the kernel" as i cant post a link here)
Great guy, linux is lucky to have him... I recently started running linux ubuntu, and have had a very easy time installing and dual booting, just one thing I couldent get to work was the sound.. Stuipd creative dosn't make a linux driver for high end sound card :\ beta versions are out but its a bitch getting it to work.
@stephenmneedham Yep, am using it right now, and have been for years. It's different and in my opinion worth the change. I wouldn't really like to see MS or Mac stopped. In my opinion you need to have competition in order to produce good software.
at 33:34 you can read this on the screen: "WTF are you doing reading this" xD
@googletechtalks
Maybe wikipedia is wrong, but they have his name hyphenated 'Kroah-Hartman'
I am developing OpenWrt, also a kind of linux
Just how good is it? Anyone reading this using it? I would love to know. Is Windows a stream roller that can be stopped?
I agree that Linux is sort of the "monopoly" in the open source world, other projects doesn't get as much attention as Linux.
I recon you have tried a microkernel OS, if so, is it good? As I understand it, multitasking is a bit more "difficult" (In the terms of speed and stability).
Though I really like the idea that each device driver isn't included in the kernel itself, Linux and *BSD has traces of that (Graphic cards for instance).
24:13
The unknown folks are Microsoft employees... They're sick of Windows. Heheh..
@ThunderAppeal
Money, market share, etc. And aren't they legally bound by support agreements they laid out?
When you have billions at stake someone is going to make sure that doesn't happen. And that's why I like Linux. Giving consumers options is a good thing and competition keeps companies on their toes.
With Linux a distro walk out or abandonment is much more likely. Not that Linux will ever go away but a distro can. And if you depend on that distro it could be a problem.
Heh, strange. Isn't there any error file in xorg? I haven't had any GUI related crashes so I haven't poked around there so much.
Incorporating everything in the kernel might be fast, but it's on the expense of stability and security, something I don't like.
What's the difference between andrew morton's tree (i think its -mm) and stephen rothwell's -next? frequency of release?
They use there fork of BSD called Darwin which is also used in OS X
@Gyula9999 Nice catch. That's just like Greg.
@stephenmneedham If by "using it" you mean "using Linux" and as a replacement for Windows on the desktop, then yes I am - I'm typing this on Linux, and I personally love it. If you're interested I encourage you to give it a shot. It's free :)
@TheDeadlyPythonTube what you say would be true, if Linux Kernel would be Microkernel, or even Hybrid kernel. Since you can put drivers/file system stuff, inside the kernel, thigs usually become even more stable/fast. Btw, have you ever compiled your own Linux kernel? I gues no, because you would've known that you can make extremely lightweight kernel, by not compiling stuff you don't use.
Grow bigger, yes, in source code.
But the compiled kernel can still boot on a 1.4MB floppy.
If there were no patent laws on coding, it would have crushed everything !!!
How do we contribute?
yeah.. I am interested in robotics developed on linux drivers... Can anyone tell me if they worked on it ...
future is already here.
niiiice thanx
@medoelkorsan Well there is also *BSD but yeah. You're probably right.
@Gyula9999 Good catch :)
@ThunderAppeal microsoft's 3 e's, embrace, extend, extinguish
Yeah, but every patch they submit has to go through peer-review, then the maintainers, and finally the tests and then Linus.
We cant hear the questions...otherwise it was ok
Love linux :)
what programing language is the kernel written in?
C
I would not say Amateurs, they simply unemployed or don't want to say that hey are employed.
It's not there fault that technology goes that fast ;p they need to support new hardware new technologies and they need to optimize and fix in same time.
@JonJon90245 It's worse than you think. In Linux you can fix something yourself but in Windows you don't have the chance. Don't get it wrong, the patches get reviewed, tested and signed. Linux enthusiasts are usually well educated folks, don't think about them as second class people.
please re-up in hd
Hah, I'm not the only one who noticed :)
if it was Linux, they would have to release iOS under GPL. So its BSD core.
@roflschofel NOT even indirectly, IBM has absolutely NO influence, whether direct or indirectly. Linux might be funded by big name companies like IBM, Intel, etc. but funding does not necessarily mean influence. The drive of kernel development is not affected by funding from big name companies. Its the community of people who are contributing to the kernel. Google it. But funding will help the development of kernel but its not the drive of the linux kernel development.
Change the title as "Sgt. Hartman vs Linux Kernel", heheh.
@snguy90 i watched the video i don't know if you watched it! yourself .. microsfot doesn't influence linux at all in what sense are they doing so? i think you are just saying things that you are not aware about!
see 28:45 that's why I wanted to do
@gnulinux540 on linux right now ^^
Cut off IBM , mean IBM is putting alot of Biometrics in the Code and that is a Big Problem
i think Linux is the only hope for developed countries to contribute in the field of IT and stop the evil companies such MS from dominating the this field ...
@BigBobsh2o And what keeps microshit from walking away from the companies they have a 'contract' with?
.. and its free O_o
Which practicly all of them are the same :p
Google 's your friend
He has some open source sparkle of steve jobs..
T~T
Description... line breaks.... aaaaaaah!
@JonJon90245 Software written by enthusiasts vs. software written by drones? Yeah, open and shut case lol :)
@Mr0dis0 NO NO NO!! The Kernel is written in C, NOT Java.!!!
@JonJon90245
Just because 18.5% are amateurs doesn't mean they're contributions aren't quality. You have students and professors and other qualified people adding to it. I'm sure most of them are more qualified to contribute to a huge project like this than you are.
@IDmann700 GCC C
@snguy90 .... IBM is NOT influencing Linux. Nothing influences Linux except for the community of people!!!
Who the hell is Google?
SEVEN
And lawyers dont write competent code.
grow bigger, get faster, invent better. WOHOO
anything will run under "the kernel",,,
Google is on page 2.. hahaha. #SEO
23:19 "Canonical does not give back to the community"
Useless sack of potatoes they are.
@joanindo Canonical submits almost nothing. They don't do shit for the kernel.
You clearly do not understand the concept of open source.
bsd core
MICROSOFT WILL DIE AS A COMPANY!!! MICROSOFT WILL GO TO HELL!!!!
LONG LIVE OPEN-SOURCE AND FREE SOFTWARE!!
toilet? What are you even talking about??
@xm4nfedoralinux
Linux will at most take a chunk out of Microsoft. And the problem with open source is accountability. The fact that they owe you nothing and can just walk away from this at will is a huge problem from a business stand point.
I really hope these people are being paid for what they do. If not this is a big waste of talent.
They are putting design patterns and all that boring shit they already put into J2EE..... yes cut em off before they make hacking sad and boring
Well said.... Novell is evil
wow These guys are rude and have a bad attitude.
@stephenmneedham YOU will be using it TOO. SOON ! If you use any mobile that uses Android then you already are.
How do we contribute?