There was some rumor floating around that oc 0 was going to be barred from scoring secondaries. Either vik just thought that was real or it was in a preview version of the slate he saw.
@@splitstriker also brigamds went up in points. if you are going to be bragging about your player skill at the beginning of the episode and then screw up rules for a faction that can win GT, not really showing the skill
@@charlesfox4449 a bit rude. he's won multiple super majors. there are a ton of rules changes and it's hard to hold a conversation and perfectly remember all of them, especially for a faction you don't play
I want to see these awesome Daemon builds! Show me the way Mike! I did mention that previously some other top players have done well with big-boy builds in the past and that if they're cheap enough they could be good again!
I've played against daemons twice since the slate (one Khorne Juggernaut list and one 5 monster mash) and they actually seemed really strong into my CK. So durable for the points now, I struggled to kill more than one thing a turn, while most things in their list will one-shot a War Dog each. The main problem I can see for Daemons is armies with good screening, they really lean heavily on the 6" deep strike to work
As a life long Guard player I whole heartedly agree. We are such an underdog and underrated army. I feel like once we get a codex and more detachments to play with its going to be a sight to see. Currently I have a 70% win rate in my area running a russ/dorn heavy list with roughrider/kasrkin support. Overall just a highly under rated army, and that is to our benefit because no one emever plans for you or expects you to do well.
Agree. What holds us back is our meh Detachment. If we get different Detachments for different playstyles with our Codex the Guard could really begin to shine and make use of the flexibility our huge unit roster gives us. But the cynic in me already sees 9th edition happening again, with us being the last ones a short time before edition change.
Agree 100%. If you follow Mordian Glory's channel, I use the same tactic he does in a lot of games which is to target my opponents OC and basically force them to put their killy units on objectives, easing the pressure on my lines. With the 10th ed org chart changes people are really slacking on OC lately. Also, concentrating forces is a big deal. So many players spread out and try to contest every objective on the table. If you heavily overwhelm two-thirds of the board and temporarily cede the other portion, you'll usually win the game. Guard are really good at both of these things, so I'm surprised by the low win rates.
@@firesidepodcast9977Thanks for sharing your list. Are you typically starting the Kasrkin on the board and scouting/screening with them or are you bringing them in from reserve? Also, I don't see a master vox in there for Leontus. Are you keeping him near the Kasrkin to issue orders that way?
@@firesidepodcast9977 I can see that list doing fairly well in tournaments due to the amount of indirect fire, that being said when most people are complaining about the guard they are refering to playing in a none competitive scene as it feels like to do well you have to use lots of indirect fire, that being said most people will hate you for it and not want to play into you. All linking back to the fact that similarly to drukhari guard need a new detactment so that people who dont want to use artilery spam don't have to, I have a sneeking suspicion that similarly to ninth we will be waiting till just before 11th edition to get our codex only worsening this issue.
@@ghost9pm407 Kasrkin can order themselves you'll want to keep leontus near the artillery so he can order them, same with the tank commander. I'm assuming that a large reason for taking the karskin is they are self reliant (unlike scions). i imagine they are starting on the board due, to a lack of deep strike, unsure about how i would do scout moves as it would be match up dependent. You'll be using the bulgryn to hold an objective as they are very tough rn. All of this is just assumptions tho, thought i would reply just incase they dont
You can still take 3 Brigands, the rules aren't points limited for Knights, and Nurglings can still do actions and they're Battleline so the Daemons Allies nerf doesn't hit Death Guard to the same level.
great video - first time coming across your guys' channel here. Not sure if I agree with every single take but I appreciate the reasoning and approach you both took in arriving at your decisions. Curious to see how things pan out and how far off/on the mark you two are.
@@Snoopy.8613whoa, a single squishy unit that needs to get within majority pass charging distance without having any actual combat ability against marine level enemies.
GSC hates playing hypercrypt Necrons or Sisters. They hate having to deal with lots of units, especially ones that punish you for splitting fire. Hypercrypt's mobility also is scary, GSC needs to be able to keep their opponent from gaining too much board control
I think you guys are way underestimating Chaos Knigjts. They are a burial stat check and have anti armour, anti infantry, indirect fire, combat and speed.
I started playing at the tail end of 9th edition and I chose Necrons because of space undead reasons. I was a bit sad that they weren't on top of the charts but I loved my Necrons. Man-o-man am I having fun with them now. I don't win every game but I win a good chunk of the time with Awaken and Phaseshift. I agree that CTan are difficult to play on the field, especially on the 1st and 2nd turn where they can get gunned down but they are usually top dog in turn 3 and 4.
Great video Guys! And thanks for great content! But 2 questions! 1: you bundle BA and BT in the same tier af melee pressure, how so? And 2nd. You stod BA got point reductions which i dont think they did? Keep up the great vids cheers from a danish newb blood angels player !
Love to hear your takes! R/theastramilitarum is naturally bewildered 🤣. Would love to see the tier list take up more of the screen next time as it is very difficult to read
Placing guard that high, stating that most players simply play poorly with no supporting evidence is a very bold and farcical imo. The manticore nerf did kill it as its now as much as the leman russ an objectively better model, on top of this the manticore wasn't even the best artillery the guard have sure its better at killing but in a competitive list the basilisk is much better as you are able to deny your oponent one of the fundamentals of the game.
As a guard player, I agree with their point that guard has a deep bench with a wide variety of datasheets to be able to respond to evolving metas, but that's about all guard has going for them in my opinion. Any "killy" vehicle NEEDS order support which is extremely limited and expensive (Leontus + a squad + a command squad, realistically). It's not like we have lancers or redemptors shooting at an oath target, for example. Guard doesn't have access to a good source of rerolls. People love scout sentinels, but they are squishy enough that in my experience, if you take a few, they only last a few turns. A single one isn't worth popping reinforcements on. Demolisher russes are very very inconsistent. Random shots and random damage can horribly disappoint, especially hitting on 3's with no rerolls and no good supporting stratagem for a damage boost except maybe a CP reroll in your back pocket (hi vect). Not to parrot everybody, but the detachment rule is just straight garbage. It needs a change. Half the stratagems are garbage. The only real upside of the current detachment is to try and cheese Regiment units that are easier to order and can be rezzed, or just spam datasheets that might be too cheap for their profile (basically bullgryn, chimeras). Battle line infantry don't really do anything but move block for a turn, none of them can survive on objectives unless MAYBE you spend 250 on the krieg blob and your opponent just didn't take any chaff clear in their list. Edit: also why are our enhancements garbage? Drill commander sucks. Why don't we have a relic Leman russ gun like the last few years? That's pretty staple. Some sort of damage boost or survivability boost to a key unit.
@valedusgaming nah I agree that guard can adapt to fit most armies, but then that's the point of guard. My main annoyance in them calling most guard players bad and stating that they are a top-tier faction without providing evidence
There's a lot of arrogance in play here. Guard.. never, ever 'Astra' are being elevated purely because top players can currently mug other top players with them as they're not 'teched' to This is absolutely nothing to do with balance and everything about getting the jump on the meta. This does absolutely nothing for most guard players - see win rates .. metawatch.. stat check. Trash analysis.
@@valedusgamingI agree with most of your points here. Even some hidden gems like the cheap Russ Variants (Vanquisher & Eradicator) need order support to be effective which drastically increases their total points costs. I've had a lot more success with Guard since changing my mentality from "How do I efficiently kill things?" to "How do I efficiently score points?". So for example instead of taking a large Scion blob and trying to maximize damage output I'm taking a single 5 man to deep strike onto an isolated objective that my artillery cleared. I'm also taking a lot more self-sustaining infantry like Krieg and Kasrkin, which can get to 3+/2+ BS without orders, saving points on officers. Leontus and Ursula are pretty much there to order the artillery, which actually does benefit from Born Soldiers. You made a good point about the lone scout sentinels. I take a unit of two to get out on objectives early, and they require my opponent to respond and pull their anti-tank units out of cover, or commit their OC troops into the fight, which allows me to get the first strike against valuable targets. Two sentinels or 120 points is worth the 2CP to bring back in my opinion. The biggest problem I've had is with killing large volumes of tough vehicles/monsters. Like Knights/Necron Ctan. Except for maybe the Shadowsword/Stormsword, we don't have much that can reliably kill big things.
Great chat and discussion guys. I like Vik's optimism about Tau but I think the final placing is far. I was surprised that you first said start the list with 3 riptides & 4-5 commanders (20-22 bring it down points), then said to add breachers which need at least some devilfishes (more bring it down points) and didn't mention anything about anti tank (so far you hadn't mentioned anything str10+ which is more bring it down) but also said minimise bring it down and not worry about assassinate. I think you're still forced to have a large bring it down total, swapping 3 crisis for a riptide (or 2 commanders) only drops the bring it down total by 2 points with many competitive tau lists having over 40 bring it down points. I think the Bring it down total will restrict the Tau from taking too many characters (giving up both kill fixed secondaries is a big no-no). I think Tau lists will still start with a coldstar and 6 crisis suits, its just the 2nd and further crisis units will change for commanders and riptides.
I'm so curious why they think that dreadknights are bad. Overall theyre not amazing, but I think they really REALLY help some of Grey Knights' bad matchups, like Custodes who are difficult to do damage against in combat with fights first, -1 dmg, -1 to hit, etc. The dreadknights let you do damage in shooting so you aren't forced to fight them on their terms. Similarly with Vanguard Space marines that are just really difficult to charge with the d6 move after I declare my charge.
Hey guys - refining my redeemer BT hellbrect hulls list :-) great episode need thoughts without data to mine for lists for upcoming events. Great to play such good players, i learnt loads of good stuff and was great games.
Sorry mate, Vik nad I tend to only really speak on what we know a lot about. Just like our regular content, we only stick to what we know, because theshow is a reflection of what we talk about on a day to day basis.
@@firesidepodcast9977 What does that say about the state of IKs then? You don't even have to know much or monitor their changes. Just want to add that I enjoy your show- one of my favorites. The IK omission was just really surprising.
I love when Vik talks about reading the reddit comments and how under the radar so many perceptions are. I’d argue it is for Deathwatch - so many of the DW players who play comp (the handful that their are being the least played faction lol) were so bummed we didn’t get points decreases on our KT’s. I was like, guys we didn’t get Tome FAQ’d - its arguably the biggest damage amplifier in all of SM - and you have to size up KT’s in that context along with army wide lethals, precision, sustained turns, ntm our uppy downy strat. They don’t see the light. I’m the one that went 5-1 at LVO too, 56th, best in faction etc. Fought Crons final game and won by 1 point after near killing two wraith bricks in one turn. Woulda fulled them if I’d be able to precision out the 5+fnp leaders. Anyhow, LOVE the podcast guys and adding the face cams is huge as someone who works in content professionally. I also think I remember maybe David playing DW at the beginning of 10th before they got gutted. This podcast and hearing maybe Vik’s journey into competitive linking up with some pro players who mentored him was so prolific to me. I was like, damn I could only dream of that happening to me. Lo and behold, at my LGS in Nashville, three top players (best GK, Best Salamanders and the guy famous for ork buggy beating vanilla in 1 turn) are all at my shop! I beat the em and joined their ranks on XPZ! They’ve been incredible coaches and mentors to me. LVO was my first major tournament outside of 2 RTT’s. All that to say, the podcast has been no less than inspiring and hope to say hi to you guys next big tourney now that I know your faces haha. Cheers!
Hey maate, yea that's an interesting tech, the blast into wraiths is really nice! Glad to have you along. XPZ are a fantastic team, and I've had nothing buy great matches, win or lose! (shoutout to chase for destroying me!)
Tau will take on crons. Breacherfish and broadsides do the job Vs ctan front test games. Vik you had me and then caved to David tau are stronger than RTT level.
@@firesidepodcast9977 I think Tau have been one of those factions that have challenged necrons and been their predator for awhile but hypercrpt is definitely a good game as one mistake can swing the game. I'm looking forward to the next few months for tau especially with new codex
This is excellent analysis but please for the love of god stop calling the guard "astra". If you want to one word it, it's guard. Signed, every guard player
You can still take 3 Brigands if you want. Daemon allies are restricted to
There was some rumor floating around that oc 0 was going to be barred from scoring secondaries. Either vik just thought that was real or it was in a preview version of the slate he saw.
Ooops sorry, I got a couple things wrong here 😅
@@splitstriker also brigamds went up in points. if you are going to be bragging about your player skill at the beginning of the episode and then screw up rules for a faction that can win GT, not really showing the skill
@@charlesfox4449 a bit rude. he's won multiple super majors. there are a ton of rules changes and it's hard to hold a conversation and perfectly remember all of them, especially for a faction you don't play
I believe you bring 3 anymore, allies restricted to 500pts 3 brigands is now 510pts...
Excellent content. Great to hear the thoughts behind each placement!
The Daemon disrespect! Thank you for keeping us underrated haha. In all seriousness great episode gents
I want to see these awesome Daemon builds! Show me the way Mike!
I did mention that previously some other top players have done well with big-boy builds in the past and that if they're cheap enough they could be good again!
I've played against daemons twice since the slate (one Khorne Juggernaut list and one 5 monster mash) and they actually seemed really strong into my CK. So durable for the points now, I struggled to kill more than one thing a turn, while most things in their list will one-shot a War Dog each. The main problem I can see for Daemons is armies with good screening, they really lean heavily on the 6" deep strike to work
As a life long Guard player I whole heartedly agree. We are such an underdog and underrated army. I feel like once we get a codex and more detachments to play with its going to be a sight to see. Currently I have a 70% win rate in my area running a russ/dorn heavy list with roughrider/kasrkin support. Overall just a highly under rated army, and that is to our benefit because no one emever plans for you or expects you to do well.
That's impressive! Is it on WTC terrain or player placed terrain?
Agree.
What holds us back is our meh Detachment. If we get different Detachments for different playstyles with our Codex the Guard could really begin to shine and make use of the flexibility our huge unit roster gives us.
But the cynic in me already sees 9th edition happening again, with us being the last ones a short time before edition change.
@@nuno9592 mix of WTC/ITC with the odd fun game of player placed terrain in there.
Yes. And if you have to change tactic for the meta then we can play ‘oops all infantry’ and field a crap tonne.
Agree 100%. If you follow Mordian Glory's channel, I use the same tactic he does in a lot of games which is to target my opponents OC and basically force them to put their killy units on objectives, easing the pressure on my lines. With the 10th ed org chart changes people are really slacking on OC lately.
Also, concentrating forces is a big deal. So many players spread out and try to contest every objective on the table. If you heavily overwhelm two-thirds of the board and temporarily cede the other portion, you'll usually win the game.
Guard are really good at both of these things, so I'm surprised by the low win rates.
ty for the breakdown, love the respect you gave the guard gl with them in the next tourney
Great content again. 1 question: What does a astra militarum list you talk about looks like?
Here ya go! I'm playing this in a singles event
David Gaylard
Ignite
30 Kassies 30 Oh
### Configuration
Battle Size: Incursion (1000 Point limit)
Detachment: Combined Regiment
Show/Hide Options: Agents of the Imperium are visible, Imperial Knights are visible, Legends are visible, Titans are visible, Unaligned Forces are visible, Unaligned Fortifications are visible
### Epic Hero [180pts]
Lord Solar Leontus [125pts]: Conquest, Konstrain's Hooves, Sol's Righteous Gaze, Warlord
Ursula Creed [55pts]: Duty and Vengeance, Power Weapon
### Character [265pts]
Primaris Psyker [60pts]: Force Weapon, Laspistol, Psychic Maelstrom
Tank Commander [205pts]: Armoured Tracks, Demolisher Battle Cannon, Hunter-killer Missile, Lascannon, Two Multi-meltas, 2x Multi-melta, Heavy Stubber
### Battleline [60pts]
Infantry Squad [60pts]: 1 Sergeant, 7 Guardsmen and 1 Heavy Weapons Team
• 5x Guardsman: Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun
• 1x Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher: Close Combat Weapon, Grenade Launcher
• 1x Guardsman w/ Vox Caster: Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun, Vox-caster
• 1x Heavy Weapons Team: Close Combat Weapon, Mortar, Laspistol
• 1x Sergeant: Plasma Pistol, Chainsword
### Infantry [460pts]
Bullgryn Squad [160pts]:
• 1x Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Bullgryn Maul, Brute Shield
• 5x Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Brute Shield
Kasrkin [100pts]:
• 1x Kasrkin Sergeant: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Lasgun
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Hot-shot Laspistol and Meltamine: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Laspistol, Melta mine
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Hot-shot Marksmen Rifle: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Marksmen Rifle
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Meltagun: Close Combat Weapon, Meltagun
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Plasma Gun: Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Gun
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Vox-caster: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot lasgun, Vox-caster
Kasrkin [100pts]:
• 1x Kasrkin Sergeant: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Lasgun
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Hot-shot Laspistol and Meltamine: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Laspistol, Melta mine
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Hot-shot Marksmen Rifle: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Marksmen Rifle
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Meltagun: Close Combat Weapon, Meltagun
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Plasma Gun: Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Gun
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Vox-caster: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot lasgun, Vox-caster
Kasrkin [100pts]:
• 1x Kasrkin Sergeant: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Lasgun
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Hot-shot Laspistol and Meltamine: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Laspistol, Melta mine
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Hot-shot Marksmen Rifle: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot Marksmen Rifle
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Meltagun: Close Combat Weapon, Meltagun
• 2x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Plasma Gun: Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Gun
• 1x Kasrkin Trooper w/ Vox-caster: Close Combat Weapon, Hot-shot lasgun, Vox-caster
### Vehicle [885pts]
Basilisk [135pts]: Armoured Tracks, Earthshaker Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-killer Missile
Basilisk [135pts]: Armoured Tracks, Earthshaker Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-killer Missile
Basilisk [135pts]: Armoured Tracks, Earthshaker Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-killer Missile
Manticore [180pts]: Armoured Tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-killer Missile, Storm Eagle Rockets
Manticore [180pts]: Armoured Tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-killer Missile, Storm Eagle Rockets
Scout Sentinels [60pts]:
• 1x Scout Sentinel: Close Combat Weapon, Hunter-killer Missile, Lascannon, Sentinel Chainsaw
Scout Sentinels [60pts]:
• 1x Scout Sentinel: Close Combat Weapon, Hunter-killer Missile, Lascannon, Sentinel Chainsaw
### Dedicated Transport [140pts]
Chimera [70pts]: Armoured Tracks, Chimera Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Hunter-killer Missile, Lasgun Array, Heavy Stubber
Chimera [70pts]: Armoured Tracks, Chimera Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Hunter-killer Missile, Lasgun Array, Heavy Stubber
#manticoresaredead
Thanks a lot!
@@firesidepodcast9977
@@firesidepodcast9977Thanks for sharing your list. Are you typically starting the Kasrkin on the board and scouting/screening with them or are you bringing them in from reserve?
Also, I don't see a master vox in there for Leontus. Are you keeping him near the Kasrkin to issue orders that way?
@@firesidepodcast9977 I can see that list doing fairly well in tournaments due to the amount of indirect fire, that being said when most people are complaining about the guard they are refering to playing in a none competitive scene as it feels like to do well you have to use lots of indirect fire, that being said most people will hate you for it and not want to play into you. All linking back to the fact that similarly to drukhari guard need a new detactment so that people who dont want to use artilery spam don't have to, I have a sneeking suspicion that similarly to ninth we will be waiting till just before 11th edition to get our codex only worsening this issue.
@@ghost9pm407 Kasrkin can order themselves you'll want to keep leontus near the artillery so he can order them, same with the tank commander. I'm assuming that a large reason for taking the karskin is they are self reliant (unlike scions).
i imagine they are starting on the board due, to a lack of deep strike, unsure about how i would do scout moves as it would be match up dependent. You'll be using the bulgryn to hold an objective as they are very tough rn.
All of this is just assumptions tho, thought i would reply just incase they dont
You guys slay thx and keep up the good content!
Guard. It’s called guard. And it’s not the easiest army but it’s easily the most versatile
You can still take 3 Brigands, the rules aren't points limited for Knights, and Nurglings can still do actions and they're Battleline so the Daemons Allies nerf doesn't hit Death Guard to the same level.
great video - first time coming across your guys' channel here. Not sure if I agree with every single take but I appreciate the reasoning and approach you both took in arriving at your decisions. Curious to see how things pan out and how far off/on the mark you two are.
Glad to have you along bud!
Love your show. One suggestion when doing a tier list is to remind the podcast listeners your rankings. Some parts were hard to follow.
Definitely a good point, thanks mate!
Really appreciate the measured takes and the absence of the sky-is-falling attitude regarding Necrons.
What are you taking in Guard (or Astra) that's giving you good access to mortal wounds? Shadowsword?
primaris psychers in chimeras.
I think it’s clear they don’t play the game. Guard is a bottom 2-3 army in the game atm with admech and blood angels
Kaserkin with granade And melta bombs
@@Snoopy.8613whoa, a single squishy unit that needs to get within majority pass charging distance without having any actual combat ability against marine level enemies.
@@matthewharshany2015yeah, number 2 and 4 in the ITC last year, several gts each to their name but they have no idea 😂
Great episode, keep it up gents.
GSC hates playing hypercrypt Necrons or Sisters. They hate having to deal with lots of units, especially ones that punish you for splitting fire. Hypercrypt's mobility also is scary, GSC needs to be able to keep their opponent from gaining too much board control
I think you guys are way underestimating Chaos Knigjts. They are a burial stat check and have anti armour, anti infantry, indirect fire, combat and speed.
@vik can you give an example meta GK list now from your pov?
I started playing at the tail end of 9th edition and I chose Necrons because of space undead reasons. I was a bit sad that they weren't on top of the charts but I loved my Necrons. Man-o-man am I having fun with them now. I don't win every game but I win a good chunk of the time with Awaken and Phaseshift. I agree that CTan are difficult to play on the field, especially on the 1st and 2nd turn where they can get gunned down but they are usually top dog in turn 3 and 4.
You need to make a ranking on the space marine chapters next!
Eldar are still very strong. Im guessing at the top of the meta. Top 1-3. The data sheets are still better than everything else. Great vid
Great video Guys! And thanks for great content! But 2 questions! 1: you bundle BA and BT in the same tier af melee pressure, how so? And 2nd. You stod BA got point reductions which i dont think they did? Keep up the great vids cheers from a danish newb blood angels player !
Maybe he's talking about points cuts to assault intercessors
True, but not much of a change of balancing, other than maybe just burry sangguard more ind the dirt. :D cheers!@@bilbostomper
Love to hear your takes! R/theastramilitarum is naturally bewildered 🤣. Would love to see the tier list take up more of the screen next time as it is very difficult to read
Placing guard that high, stating that most players simply play poorly with no supporting evidence is a very bold and farcical imo. The manticore nerf did kill it as its now as much as the leman russ an objectively better model, on top of this the manticore wasn't even the best artillery the guard have sure its better at killing but in a competitive list the basilisk is much better as you are able to deny your oponent one of the fundamentals of the game.
As a guard player, I agree with their point that guard has a deep bench with a wide variety of datasheets to be able to respond to evolving metas, but that's about all guard has going for them in my opinion. Any "killy" vehicle NEEDS order support which is extremely limited and expensive (Leontus + a squad + a command squad, realistically). It's not like we have lancers or redemptors shooting at an oath target, for example.
Guard doesn't have access to a good source of rerolls. People love scout sentinels, but they are squishy enough that in my experience, if you take a few, they only last a few turns. A single one isn't worth popping reinforcements on.
Demolisher russes are very very inconsistent. Random shots and random damage can horribly disappoint, especially hitting on 3's with no rerolls and no good supporting stratagem for a damage boost except maybe a CP reroll in your back pocket (hi vect).
Not to parrot everybody, but the detachment rule is just straight garbage. It needs a change. Half the stratagems are garbage. The only real upside of the current detachment is to try and cheese Regiment units that are easier to order and can be rezzed, or just spam datasheets that might be too cheap for their profile (basically bullgryn, chimeras). Battle line infantry don't really do anything but move block for a turn, none of them can survive on objectives unless MAYBE you spend 250 on the krieg blob and your opponent just didn't take any chaff clear in their list.
Edit: also why are our enhancements garbage? Drill commander sucks. Why don't we have a relic Leman russ gun like the last few years? That's pretty staple. Some sort of damage boost or survivability boost to a key unit.
Manticore dead?
I have 2 in my list still :)
@valedusgaming nah I agree that guard can adapt to fit most armies, but then that's the point of guard. My main annoyance in them calling most guard players bad and stating that they are a top-tier faction without providing evidence
There's a lot of arrogance in play here. Guard.. never, ever 'Astra' are being elevated purely because top players can currently mug other top players with them as they're not 'teched' to This is absolutely nothing to do with balance and everything about getting the jump on the meta. This does absolutely nothing for most guard players - see win rates .. metawatch.. stat check. Trash analysis.
@@valedusgamingI agree with most of your points here. Even some hidden gems like the cheap Russ Variants (Vanquisher & Eradicator) need order support to be effective which drastically increases their total points costs.
I've had a lot more success with Guard since changing my mentality from "How do I efficiently kill things?" to "How do I efficiently score points?".
So for example instead of taking a large Scion blob and trying to maximize damage output I'm taking a single 5 man to deep strike onto an isolated objective that my artillery cleared.
I'm also taking a lot more self-sustaining infantry like Krieg and Kasrkin, which can get to 3+/2+ BS without orders, saving points on officers. Leontus and Ursula are pretty much there to order the artillery, which actually does benefit from Born Soldiers.
You made a good point about the lone scout sentinels. I take a unit of two to get out on objectives early, and they require my opponent to respond and pull their anti-tank units out of cover, or commit their OC troops into the fight, which allows me to get the first strike against valuable targets. Two sentinels or 120 points is worth the 2CP to bring back in my opinion.
The biggest problem I've had is with killing large volumes of tough vehicles/monsters. Like Knights/Necron Ctan. Except for maybe the Shadowsword/Stormsword, we don't have much that can reliably kill big things.
Great chat and discussion guys.
I like Vik's optimism about Tau but I think the final placing is far. I was surprised that you first said start the list with 3 riptides & 4-5 commanders (20-22 bring it down points), then said to add breachers which need at least some devilfishes (more bring it down points) and didn't mention anything about anti tank (so far you hadn't mentioned anything str10+ which is more bring it down) but also said minimise bring it down and not worry about assassinate. I think you're still forced to have a large bring it down total, swapping 3 crisis for a riptide (or 2 commanders) only drops the bring it down total by 2 points with many competitive tau lists having over 40 bring it down points. I think the Bring it down total will restrict the Tau from taking too many characters (giving up both kill fixed secondaries is a big no-no). I think Tau lists will still start with a coldstar and 6 crisis suits, its just the 2nd and further crisis units will change for commanders and riptides.
I'm so curious why they think that dreadknights are bad. Overall theyre not amazing, but I think they really REALLY help some of Grey Knights' bad matchups, like Custodes who are difficult to do damage against in combat with fights first, -1 dmg, -1 to hit, etc. The dreadknights let you do damage in shooting so you aren't forced to fight them on their terms. Similarly with Vanguard Space marines that are just really difficult to charge with the d6 move after I declare my charge.
Great job! ❤
The time of the Double Terminator brick chaos has some my 20 Combi plasmas will make the galaxy burn.
Mordian Glory sent me here ✌️
For the algorithm 🎉
Hey guys - refining my redeemer BT hellbrect hulls list :-) great episode need thoughts without data to mine for lists for upcoming events. Great to play such good players, i learnt loads of good stuff and was great games.
2:00 - Top tier armies
24:01 - Top 4 onwards
1:11:46 - Summary
MY way for Ctan: Trajan Valoris + Warden squad :D
❤
zero commentary about Imperial Knights? wtf come on. You spent like 10-15 on all these other armies only to skip past IKs.
Sorry mate, Vik nad I tend to only really speak on what we know a lot about. Just like our regular content, we only stick to what we know, because theshow is a reflection of what we talk about on a day to day basis.
@@firesidepodcast9977 What does that say about the state of IKs then? You don't even have to know much or monitor their changes.
Just want to add that I enjoy your show- one of my favorites. The IK omission was just really surprising.
I love when Vik talks about reading the reddit comments and how under the radar so many perceptions are. I’d argue it is for Deathwatch - so many of the DW players who play comp (the handful that their are being the least played faction lol) were so bummed we didn’t get points decreases on our KT’s. I was like, guys we didn’t get Tome FAQ’d - its arguably the biggest damage amplifier in all of SM - and you have to size up KT’s in that context along with army wide lethals, precision, sustained turns, ntm our uppy downy strat. They don’t see the light. I’m the one that went 5-1 at LVO too, 56th, best in faction etc. Fought Crons final game and won by 1 point after near killing two wraith bricks in one turn. Woulda fulled them if I’d be able to precision out the 5+fnp leaders.
Anyhow, LOVE the podcast guys and adding the face cams is huge as someone who works in content professionally. I also think I remember maybe David playing DW at the beginning of 10th before they got gutted. This podcast and hearing maybe Vik’s journey into competitive linking up with some pro players who mentored him was so prolific to me. I was like, damn I could only dream of that happening to me. Lo and behold, at my LGS in Nashville, three top players (best GK, Best Salamanders and the guy famous for ork buggy beating vanilla in 1 turn) are all at my shop! I beat the em and joined their ranks on XPZ! They’ve been incredible coaches and mentors to me. LVO was my first major tournament outside of 2 RTT’s. All that to say, the podcast has been no less than inspiring and hope to say hi to you guys next big tourney now that I know your faces haha. Cheers!
What a comment! So cool! Hopefully get to meet you one day :) - Vik
Hey maate, yea that's an interesting tech, the blast into wraiths is really nice! Glad to have you along. XPZ are a fantastic team, and I've had nothing buy great matches, win or lose! (shoutout to chase for destroying me!)
@@firesidepodcast9977 haha I’ll def let chase know you said so!
Swarmlord ends all these armies pretty easy atm, people are sleeping on how good Swarmy is atm
Definitely a different tier list from the rest. Still seeing people moan so much about Astra Militarum, which you ofc strongly disagree with.
Admech will outperform GSC because it has twice as many players at a respectable 18
Tau will take on crons. Breacherfish and broadsides do the job Vs ctan front test games.
Vik you had me and then caved to David tau are stronger than RTT level.
Hope you have some GT win in your pocket So i can copy your list :D
Hey I'm excited to see what Tau can do too! Dave
@@firesidepodcast9977 I think Tau have been one of those factions that have challenged necrons and been their predator for awhile but hypercrpt is definitely a good game as one mistake can swing the game. I'm looking forward to the next few months for tau especially with new codex
Why cant nurglings do actions? That reddit leak was fake af.
Then it wasn't a leak in the first place but a wishlist/fan fiction
Nurglings can still do actions ny dudes. What you talking about?
Oooops sorry!
So… half of the armies in your bottom two tiers have won a GT since the dataslate…
Sooooo…
You guys look nothing like I imagined you did
What did you expect? 😂
Sisters ranked too high imo
Why do you think that? I feel like they are in atleast not a bad spot right now
This is excellent analysis but please for the love of god stop calling the guard "astra". If you want to one word it, it's guard. Signed, every guard player