Elle, isn’t it Anne Boleyn as Cromwell sees her? Like when he imagines stroking her neck. Or when she bats her eyelashes at him. That’s how *he* sees Anne in that moment. It’s not supposed to be a realistic or accurate portrayal of Anne Boleyn. Rather, Mantel’s vision of how Cromwell sees her. I think Claire Foy pulls it off magnificently!
That's how I interpreted it. Like how he "saw" Wolsey and his father at times. Claire Foy did really well presenting that assertive side of Anne that men found threatening or distasteful. We see her through Cromwell's misogynistic lens (he was played as a pretty flexible mind, but not so flexible as to view women as equals) in this show, and I think she delivered a quite dislikeable Anne.
While it is true the depiction is how Cromwell sees Anne, this scene is more objective. Anne is very condescending to Cromwell from our point of view. As Elle says - why would she act that way from the very beginning. This scene is not how Cromwell sees Anne. It is how she is introduced. It would have been more in keeping with Mantel’s depiction if the introduction was far more subtle. In other words the way she spoke to him was ambiguous. A person disposed to dislike her could feel slighted, whereas the onlooker doesn’t see it.
Another thing, the laziness of pitting Anne against her sister and sister-in-law just bores me stupid. I was so much happier with the Jane Boleyn in the second series. I do wish people could write these relationships better than falling on the same tiresome unproven nonsense of constant vitriol between Anne and every woman she knows, especially the women in her family.
@SuperStella1111 To be honest it's still conjecture as there's no evidence for that, she was never named at the trial. It was only stated "one woman" and there were at least 3 others (2 of whom were mentioned) who named and shamed Anne and her so-called behaviour. Also Jane was not at either trial - no one knows where she was either. The evidence actually points to it not being Jane simply because she was not named, would not - and did not - benefit from being a traitor's wife, had to beg Ctomwell for money from her father-in-law, asked for her marriage bed back, and wrote to George saying she would petition the king in his name. Though we know Jane was questioned by Cromwell, we don't know how it went down. All she did was tell the truth about how Anne spoke to George who told her that Henry was impotent or had trouble in that department, and of course it was used at the trial in letter form, however Cromwell never said it was George's wife who told him and there's no way he would have not announced it so publicly because it would add to the scandal and bolster the cooked up evidence even more; he wouldn't have been able to resist naming George's own wife but he didn't. And Jane wore black for the rest of her life. There's no evidence to say Jane and Anne hated each other, in fact Jane and Anne seemed to get on well, confided in each other and Anne asked her for help to get rid of a woman Henry was becoming interested in (before Jane Seymour). We don't even know Jane B was at court during their downfall. There is an AMAZING book by Julia Fox called Jane Boleyn: The Infamous Lady Rochford, please please read it it's sooooo good pleeease 🙏🏻 Trust me, I grew up believing Jane was to blame, but having read the book and listening to other historians use the contemporary evidence to debunk the myth, I come out believing I don't think she hated them and wanted them gone. If you read just one book on Jane B please go for that one 😁
@@RogieVixenwell, there’s a more recent book by a scholar, Courting Scandal, by James Taffe. Maybe not so innocent. The fact that she survived and was even part of the Seymour court is suspicious.
@JJMarie3509 I have that book but I haven't read it yet. I will say I wouldn't be surprised if Jane survived because Cromwell made a deal with her after the fall to spy for him, be his eyes and ears where he needed her (in the queen's apartments) which is how she continued her career at court. But then again many family members of traitors still maintained their careers through associated scandals after a while. Thomas Boleyn came back into favour before he died, Norfolk only became dangerously out of favour at the end of Henry's life, Henry's death saving him, and even though Charles Brandon had the audacity to secretly marry Henry's favourite sister, he didn't lose favour with Henry. It seemed to be pick and choose with Henry for his own benefit, and killing Jane then served no purpose for him. I think Cromwell may have thought Jane B could be useful to him (and she was concerning Anne of Cleves later) and that she owed him a debt by getting him to help her with finances etc. I think Jane was kept alive during the Boleyn fall simply because Cromwell and Henry knew it was all a load of bull anyway and there was no need to get rid of any of her ladies to "prove" any of the charges. There was also a good documentary using contemporary evidence a couple of years a go headed by Tracy Borman about Jane Boleyn. I just don't see Jane Boleyn hating her husband and sister-in-law so much she would act to have them judiciously murdered. I find the problem is that Jane and George's marriage is considered a bad one simply because they didn't have children (and there could be any number of reasons for that). Certain historians had read between the lines (like Warnicke with George's execution speech) and run with it, and the likes of Gregory have made a career of conjuring fiction from hearsay and calling it fact and twisting any truth that has survived over the centuries so it ends up in multiple media as fact and no one looks any deeper when they make historical dramas, probably because it's easier and more dramatic this way. I would love to watch a series or drama where they cover the Boleyn downfall and have Jane NOT be guilty for once. It would be so refreshing and interesting. I just think Jane did what everyone at court tried to do - survive. But I don't think throwing your in-law or husband under the bus would be the way to do it. Her future was very much tied in with the Boleyns once Anne was queen. Also, during Elizabeth's reign it was convenient to make Jane the scapegoat because Anne was being rehabilitated and no one would dare call Elizabeth's father a wife killer, so someone had to be blamed for that mess. And since it had been accounted Jane and Cromwell had spoken, who better than to put all the blame on a woman who had been executed as a traitor anyway? It fit the narrative very well and has echoed down the centuries. But how about we make a deal? I'll read the James Taffe one very soon if you read Julia Fox's? 😁
@ sure, it’s on my reading list. 😇 Taffe did find a thing or two that was overlooked. Both biographies suffer from the problem that there just isn’t enough of a written record ( letters, etc.) to know who she really was. Similar to Anne Boleyn in many ways (her response to Henry’s letters.)
I read somewhere that Claire Foy tried to use brown contact lenses but they irritated her eyes so much that she gave up on them. Ditto for Natalie Dormer. Both actresses do have striking eyes, though, and I think that's the really important thing, as well as the quality of their acting of course.
I loved it because Mary Boleyn and Cromwell were both marginal players at that point in the story. And I bet they could have had a happy marriage if her Uncle Norfolk agreed to it.
I think that the Wolf Hall's Anne Boleyn was how Cromwell perceived Anne Boleyn, so it's via HIS lense...taking to the account also that this is a fictional account of Cromwell's perspective by Mantel. I actually thought Claire Foy delivered a powerful Anne Boleyn's performance. But yeah, she's mostly in the negative light in the show, I almost saw very little attractive quality of Anne (beside that Claire Foy is gorgeous that is), in this portrayal. She's just one dimensional, almost, but then I remind myself, this is not the 'full' Anne Boleyn, this is Cromwell's lens on her and he didn't have a great opinion of her even when they're allied.
I think what they were trying to do was imagining Anne in Cromwell's perspective and seeing what he thought of her. I think the problem stems from that Anne was antagonistic towards Cromwell in the beginning, when instead, we should've gotten to see these two's relationship slowly decrease and sour over time as the season goes on from allies to enemies.
My view may be simplistic but I just put down the antagonism to Anne seeing Cromwell squarely as Wolsey's stooge, which must have been how he was perceived by many before and even after the Cardinal's fall. So here in this meeting it is almost like she is addressing Wolsey. Notice we never see a meeting between Wolsey and Anne, if that ever took place even in reality. The show/book make much of the similarities between the two men - the constant 'butchers boy / blacksmith's dog' references.
@jamesli9380 That's a really good point. Thing is, even Anne's antagonism toward Wolsey is overstated in Wolf Hall (and most other Tudor dramas TBF). Yes, he broke up her romance with Henry Percy, but she also knew he was her best hope of getting an annulment from the Pope so for at least a couple of years she put aside whatever resentment she may have felt, and actually had lots of cordial exchanges with him until it became obvious he could do nothing for her cause.
They were shown as cautiously allied at the start of wolf hall. I recall it peaked with the moment at the window when Anne & Crum are watching More retire his chain and celebrating their victory. She secured Crum the jewell house and he was kinda fantasizing, looking at her. Idk, I loved it.
I like Claire Foy a lot as an actress but her Anne was too bad-tempered and bitchy, it was hard to imagine Henry VIII breaking with Rome for her! She did a great job with what she had though. Also I wish they'd given her brown contact lenses, minor thing but it bugs me 😂
She’s the best Anne because the chemistry with Damien (Henry) is electric, you believe in its destructive power; the portrayal is caricaturish and endearing. She captures Anne’s grieving and well-documented (and well-founded!) paranoia beautifully.
Idk I think Natalie Dormer did an excellent job showing the complexity or vulnerabilities of Anne Boleyn. Even if the writers over sexualized her character. Geneviève Bujold is #1 in my POV if you were to base the evaluation on how Anne was very dignified and witty. Dormer in my mind is excellent if one would want to have a "raw" view in terms of the wide range of emotions Anne could have had. I still cry each time watching either actress at the end. Willing to stand on this hill for that point ;)
I love it. Claire Foy's Anne is the new arriviste. She is being raised up, but she's vulnerable from the word go and she fights like a tiger, for me she encapsulates Anne in a way no other Anne ever has, the history can always be argued, but I think Claire Foy is such an incredible actress and she really delivers Hilary Mantel's take on Anne. And as for Anne being annoying, well she was known as the Great Whore by pretty much all of England, who all adored Catherine of Aragon, so isn't it fair to say that the whole of England was annoyed! Not just England, Chapuys and the Hapsburgs called her the concubine, and even the French would quite never quite commit. (I only know this because i read your fabulous book.) Henry moved heaven and earth to get her on the throne, but no-one else was pleased, no-one else got it. "Cremwell" may well be ridiculous but it is a great and succinct dramatic way to introduce this upstart with the fancy French manners who offended just about everybody right across Europe. And isn't that why we love Anne, because she took them all on, fearless, out of her depth, but she never gave up and she gave us our greatest Queen, that's my favourite bit of all, Henry! Anne had the last laugh.
I agree! To rise to the height she did, she had to have some less than pleasant attributes, and CF captures that. Real life Anne’s attitude to Katherine and Mary showed that,IMO. She once said she didn’t care if Katherine sunk to the bottom of the sea, she was abusive to Mary, etc. I’m also impressed by how Foy made Anne unpleasant yet still sympathetic at the end. Her execution scene always grips me.😢
So did so I. It’s not every role that must be played through someone else’s eyes. That’s how I see what Mantel was doing. Anne Boleyn through Cromwell’s eyes. Claire had to be clear enough that it wasn’t a role played straight; it was a skewed view of a character. But still make it believable. Not too over the top. A very fine line. I think she did it magnificently!
All is sacrificed by Mantel so that you root for Cromwell. It kind of reminds me of A Man For All Seasons where the movie does the same thing but for Thomas More. I think its completely fine in any regard for historical fiction writers to do this, pick a hero and run with them to the hilt. Mantel claimed a certain degree of credit as a historian though in combination with her writing so id say its fair game to critique her work more on these issues
Thank you for saying this! This is my LEAST fave AB portrayal. I can’t stand it. I also think Mantel wrote her as how Cromwell sees her… but nevethel3ss it’s insufferable. My fave is easily Dormer in The Tudors ❤
Well to be fair the Other Boleyn girl portrayal for me was the WORST! I respect Natalie Portman, but just no. Clair Foy did a great job if the intention was to use Cromwell's perspective.
Well, it is fiction and nobody knows it for sure. But honestly, Anne B. Could have recognized in Cromwell just the cardinal’s lawyer and Servant and she was definitely not amused about the poor results in the “great matter”. She saw herself as the queen in waiting, she wanted more respect and she had on top sometimes spicy Reactions, according with some Reports. I am perfectly fine with it.
But those reports were mostly written by her enemies. I have no doubt that, at times, she made emotional outbursts out of the difficulty and frustration of her situation. Her reputation is ruined and she’s being called the whore of Christendom but she actually resisted Henry at first because she wanted to preserve her chastity. However, why would Henry even find her appealing if she is so imperious and rude literally all the time? No, it makes no sense. I can’t see why Anne would deliberately antagonize people when she needed every ally she could get. I have to agree, this is one of the worst portrayals of Anne out there, except for the Other Boleyn Girl… that novel is absolute trash. I couldn’t bring myself to watch Wolf Hall or read Mantel’s novels because I’m tired of these really unimaginative, overly simplistic tropes of Anne being a scheming shrew and viper when there’s very little trustworthy, reputable evidence for that. These assumptions are usually based on hindsight. We KNOW that Henry will do anything and everything to annul Katherine and marry Anne, but there’s no way she could have foreseen any of that at the beginning of his pursuit of her. It’s absurd.
I’ll admit I’m not someone who thinks as Anne Boleyn as this harmless, innocent,and kind woman. When I read about her and watch things about her I’m kind of disappointed in her behaviors but this portrayal of Anne Boleyn had me thinking ok when is the execution scene. They made her extremely nasty in Wolf Hall. The actress is amazing so absolutely nothing against her.
I think Mantel is presenting Anne through Cromwell’s eyes. The book is about Cromwell’s interior life. I think the series does the same. We see Cromwell, and we are also seeing the other characters through Cromwell’s eyes. Like when Anne bats her eyelashes at him, being flirtatious and coy. I don’t think we are meant to take it literally but to understand that that’s how he sees Anne. It’s a skewed view of Anne, revealing Cromwell’s perspective. It’s just my opinion, though.
The “Cremuel” pronunciation got on my nerves. I know the series did it because that’s how it was in the book, but ugh! Claire Foy is a great actress and did the best she could with the script IMO.
Anne Boleyn seemed to speak French and English fluently, so I assumed the constant mispronunciation of Cromwell's name was her deliberate insult to him.
would have been ok if she had any other French affectations or a French accent, which was how it was supposed to come across in the book. But here she is completely, traditionally English apart from that one word, so it came across as weird and out of place.
I agree with you 100%. Like they threw Anne Boleyn under the bus to prop up Cromwell and justify his actions and her eventual collapse. They turned her into a nasty one-dimensional cardboard cutout to put the audience on his side. Frankly, to me that's on par with bad online fan fiction. Quite frankly I found Wolf Hall very boring. And the change in Cromwell's character, major LOL. Apparently, we're supposed to believe what Holbein says about his sitters except when it comes to Cromwell, sure. I know it's historical fiction and it's from his point of view, but the characterization changes were too much a hill for me to climb.
Oh god, I agree! So many people say she's one of their favorite Anne Boleyns. Like - why?! How?! She has only two attributes throughout this series: arrogant and (later) scared. This makes her such a weak and boring antagonist. We see nothing of her wit, her charms, intelligence, bravery. Watching this series I was wondering why the King would even want to marry that annoying spoiled brat. Also - Claire is small, pale and blue-eyed. Not at all ideal to play Anne Boleyn.
I totally agree. Anne was charming as well. I think she would have tried to woo Cromwell to her cause. The two were allies in the beginning. In fact, it seems they feel out over the monasteries. Anne wanted the money to be distributed for the poor, and not that all the monasteries be dissolved. In many ways Anne was a far more sympathetic character. I 12:00 think most modern audiences would have supported Anne’s views. It would have been far more subtle to have shown the sympathetic side of her, as well as the later antagonism to Cromwell.
I was obsessed with Claire Foy as Elizabeth II in 'The Crown' and bought this series first season because I wanted to see her portrayal of Anne. What a disappointment! The very worst scenes in this series were the ones that she was featured in. I hated EVERYTHING about her - the lines she spoke, the way she was dressed, the accent, the attitude, EVERYTHING! She played Anne as so nasty, one was left to wonder just what Henry was supposed to have seen in her! It spoiled the whole series for me. And I am NOT a fan of Anne Boleyn! And I agree with you that it makes no sense that Anne would antagonize Cromwell - they were both devotees of the "new religion," moreover, HE was the instrument by which the king was hoping to achieve his goal of marrying her! What in the world was this writer thinking? Even if Mantel wrote her that way, it should have been obvious that it doesn't work for the script, however she may have been able to justify it in the book.
I agree. Anne Boleyn’s character here is a kind of throwback to an earlier more negative version of her. I think there are 2 things going on: she had a lot of enemies so there was a side to her that perhaps was not very pleasant. Maybe this is how a lot of people saw her. But more important the that the hero of the story is Cromwell, and since he will later be responsible for the nature of her downfall (Henry wanted her gone but HOW she was eliminated was Cromwell) she needs to be presented as somewhat distasteful so that the audience doesn’t sympathize too much with her. And Cromwell can continue to be the hero. It’s a psychological manipulation for the audience’s sympathy.
Anne Boleyn was not considered beautiful by the standard of her day but was said to have had considerable allure and a magnetic personality and frankly that did not come across at all in Claire Foy's portrayal. My personal favorite portrayals are Geneviève Bujold (Anne of Thousand Days) and Charlotte Rampling (Henry VIII and his Six Wives).
👩🏻💻🇺🇲 I am a Tudor enthusiast. I did not care for Natalie Portman (worst) and her scene that ended Anne Bolen's life. Anne was Queen for Heaven's sake and her crying and carrying on in front of peasants was way overboard which in turn tanished the rest of her portrayal more me in "The Other Bolen Sister." Clair Foy (best) for me balanced the life's anxiety and nobilty in "Wolf Hall" as she did in the "Crown." Genevieve Bujold, made an excellent Anne against Richard Burton's Henry VIII.
Probably going to be roasted, but I did enjoy Natalie Dormer's portrayal of her. Natalie had clearly done her research and gave Anne a more nuanced, complicated approach. Anne was witty, charming, politically savvy, but Natalie also showed that Anne wasn't this great seductress that history paints her to be. My favorite though has to be Bujold's version though. Top tier.
My impression of historical Anne is that she started out sympathetic and charming, then victimized and trapped by Henry’s infatuation with her. As she accepts her fate, she turns her resentment onto Wolsey, who was only doing the King’s bidding, but was a safer object for her hate. She slowly turns into a manipulator and a schemer, and finally, an arrogant persecutor of not only Wolsey, but more unforgivably, Mary. By the end, she has gone back to sympathetic victim, and she accepts her karma and her death, which she faced with dignity. Any other portrayal of her is not just or accurate, imo.
There’s so much that’s wonderful about Wolfhall but the portrayal of Anne Boleyn and her family is definitely not one of them. Anne is always stalking around in a flaming temper, Mary Boleyn is (of course) blonde and more personable, while Jane Rochford is dressed perpetual black to show what a witch she is. Also, Anne was known for her style, so why on earth does she look like someone who picked her clothes from the dressing up box, badly fitting and a bit cheap. Don’t get me started on what she wears on her head, it appears to be an Alice band with some glass beads stuck on, it’s definitely not the French hood that she made so fashionable. All of this is worthy of really poor novelists like Philippa Gregory, not Mantel who writes with great subtlety and nuance. She developed a really fascinating picture of Cromwell, so it’s a pity that she presented the tired, lazy view of Anne and her family.
I saw some material on why those costuming fails happened. Fit was accidental timing issue. But the headbands are down to Modern Audience's perceived extreme dislike of medieval head covering. On young sexy women. But also the same reason film medieval warriors do not wear helmets. So you can see their faces. I am happy to see that some more recent productions are being more faithful. The problem with her personality is that unbiased written reflections on the character of powerful people tend not to exist. Or survive if they ever did.
I think it’s all supposed to be through Cromwell’s eyes. It’s all skewed. We’re getting Cromwell’s vision. Not even how Mantel thought it really was, but how Mantel portrays her own vision of what *Cromwell* sees. That’s my understanding of the book and the series. I think Claire pulled it off magnificently!
"You may not look to have me speak to you as I should do to a nobleman, because you are an inferior person." Anne Boleyn to Mark Smeaton, who was executed for supposedly being her lover. When she learned he'd been put in irons she was equally dismissive of his case purely based on status; "he was a person of mean birth and the others were all gentlemen" It is not then a huge leap of logic to suggest she would have been equally as dismissive of Cromwell and his own background of being from the commons. Of course, all the men of 'noble' birth of the time would have been arrogant and priggish too; but there's plenty of evidence in the historical record that, for all Anne's talents and intelligence, she was equally as abrasive as the men, indeed this may be why she played the power game so well, and was resented by and offensive too those who were competing with her. This video says "I imagine... I imagine..." but imagination isn't really history, and you can't really judge historical figures by modern views of morality and character; Anne Bolyen may have been an impressive woman but that is not the same as saying she's a woman modern people can or should admire, especially on the basis of what we imagine or wish were true. Did she wish for the money taken from the Monasterys to be used for the poor? Possibly. Did she also talk to her family in language "you wouldnt use to a dog"? Also possibly true. Those who rise to the top, even they do good, and especially in Tudor times, were not necessarily nice people. And that goes for the women too, much as we might like to be kind to them just because Henry VIII was not.
I'm sorry, Elle. You may be a terrific historian with incredible knowledge of the past, but your understanding of film writing, acting, and adaptation of history for dramatic purposes is lacking. The cast and creatives behind Wolf Hall are all at the height of their storytelling powers. Might I suggest you retitle this clip, not as "Why Wolf Hall's Anne Boleyn is BAD", but "Why I had issues with Wolf Hall's portrayal of Anne Boleyn".
I like Claire Foy a lot and she's a brilliant Elizabeth II, but yeah I did not gel with her portrayal of Anne. But then again it is how Hilary Mantel wrote her, so fair enough. Obviously, Anne wasn't a saint and could be difficult and at times nasty (concerning Mary I) etc etc, but she was still a human being with all the faults which humans carry. Even though Anne is my fave, I know that if I had lived then I would probably be "Team Katharine" and would maybe have even liked Jane Seymour as a person better, however I'm in this timeline and from an early age Anne drew me to her, and everything I've read and watched still keeps her as my fave. I just don't feel any warmth coming from Foy's Anne whatsoever other than when she's playing with Elizabeth on her lap. I would say it's more a problem with the writing than the performance.
I think Anne’s portrayal is supposed to be through Cromwell’s eyes. I think the series presents her how Cromwell is seeing her. Not necessarily as she realistically was. That’s my understanding of the book / series. Just my opinion, though.
@m.h.6499 ah ok, that's fair. I did just buy Wolf Hall so I will read it with what you said in mind - it will help a lot especially if Anne is written that way or worse! in the book too 😆
Yeees, yes yes yes! There were so many things that bothered me about this Anne Boleyn. The portrayal seemed to anticipate and pander to some kind of young, modern audience that would mindlessly cheer this anachronistic, 15th century woman. Mary Boleyn was off putting and so was Jane Boleyn. The argument scene with Henry Norris made no sense, either. So glad to see your critique. Thank you! All the women's clothes were bad, too!
This is a piece of television. It is based on several novels. What people in the comment section appear to misunderstand is that a novel - a novel that benefits from not inconsiderable research by the writer - requires certain technical prerequisites to drive narrative whilst maintaining structure. The novels are not academic works. They don't pretend to be, and anyone labouring under the misapprehension that they are text books will quite naturally be disappointed as well as perplexed. My personal opinion is that the television adaptation was a wonderful achievement. Beautifully filmed - the decision to film night scenes in candlelight being inspired - the tension and animus between the central players was compelling. Is it possible to appreciate something as well made as this whilst being fairly well versed in the known extant history? Obviously I think so. The pronounciation of 'Cromwell' in 'Wolf Hall' seems to have vexed some people. I think it was an attempt to pronounce the way his name was spelt on various receipts and state papers rather than how Anne Boleyn might have said it. Cromwellian scholar, Diarmaid MacCulloch, thinks that it was 'Crummel'...so even then, opinion on pronounciation was an issue it seems.
I was so pleased to find this video! I was finding it very jarring every time Anne said Cromwell’s name with a French accent. I love Claire Foy as an actress normally, but I did not like her portrayal of Anne Boleyn in Wolf Hall . I think it might have been the decision of the writer and director though.
Mantel's Anne Boleyn is much more of an ambitious social climber than the other portrayals that I've seen - and I think that this is truer to the character of the real woman. _Groigne qui groigne_ was her motto - "let grumble who grumble," I don't care what others think of me. Anne could be incredibly sharp with and disrespectful towards people. Besides the dangerous atmosphere, when Cromwell's commission of Oyer & Terminer began its proceedings, I think that Anne's ladies-in-waiting were eager to reveal inconvenient information about the queen, beyond merely being frightened into doing so; Anne inspired no loyalty. I believe that Anne was the victim of a smear campaign, in order to get her out of the way. However, the claim that Anne had committed treason was made more credible given her public image. Henry could never have dispensed with his wife Katherine of Aragon by accusing her of adultery - Katherine had too many defenders and no one would believe the charges anyway. I prefer Mantel's characterization to "Anne, Innocent Victim." In the film _Anne of the Thousand Days,_ Anne Boleyn is presented as the recipient of Henry's entirely unsolicited and unwanted attentions. I don't think Anne's relationship with Henry was free from goading and tempting on her part. Anne grew up at the French court - a highly sexualized arena filled with courtly love i.e. flirting, which Anne surely brought to the Tudor court.
I completely disagree with you. On all the points you’ve made. She did inspire loyalty. Her ladies in waiting kept her book of hours for generation, preserving her voice as much as they could. If it’s not loyalty I don’t know what is. She was feisty and did say what she had to say and she made enemies. But that was it. She wouldn’t disrespect anyone who didn’t disrespect her first. As for the French court, you are so far from the truth. She spent her time with Claude who was never involved in any sexualised type of activities at court. But what do I know? Apart from the fact that I have literally written a book on Anne, how the French saw her, how even the ones who didn’t like her but weren’t doing Henry’s propaganda thought of her.
I had the same, but only in the movie. In the book Anne was (in Cromwells point of view) one of the kings women. As long as they were not too interfering he handles them as the same 'woman with the king at this moment'. But Anne was always scared she was not good enough, so she 'highered' herself in being a sort if an arrogant bitch. Knowing there were enough men who were admiring her for being such a 'badass'. Claire Foyle can play much other roles very, very good but Anne Boleyn is not one of them. Nathaly Dormer is the one who can play the arrogant but also naughty (?) or 'I know many men lay at my feet-wittiness' with a superbe balance...In my opinion, offcourse
No I do agree with you about her portrayal however and was not a very likable person and I could see her being like that like very haughty and very nasty because she thought she was all that and a bag of chips
Wolf Hall is an adaptation of a fictional book that has certain historical context. It doesn't claim to be a perfect representation of actual historical events for goodness sake. If it was there wouldn't have been so many non white servants, let alone a black member of the aristocracy sitting at Henry's council table for heaven's sake. Take it for what it was, a highly watchable, well scripted and superbly acted historical drama. Congratulations to all concerned.
@@bodacioustness5054 the idea in the book is that Anne had spent a lot of her early life in the French court, so had picked up a number of French affectations and ways of speaking. that's why she calls him Cremuel. this does not really come through in the show, where she presents as totally English apart from that one word.
In my opinion, Natalie Dormer was the worst Anne Boleyn. Her facial expressions, or grimaces , of passion and anger were horrible. And her acting was very over dramatic. I really liked Claire Foy as Anne. But we all have our favourites.
😻🏵️Anne was rude to Cromwell . They had a very public row,but this was later ,when their relationship had broken down.Before that she would have treated him,with politeness and civility as she would have treated all servants .I would think being raised and serving in the European courts under Margaret of Austria ,Claude of France and later Katherine of Aragon.She would have or should have learnt how they dealt with servants and it wouldn't have been by being rude.Even if they disliked that person ,not to their face.I don't believe Katherine of Aragon, although she may referred to Anne as the scandal Christendom ,but not to her face.If Anne was rude to people like Cromwell,she must have forgotten what she had learnt on how Queens are expected to conduct themselves towards others and especially servants .Which is not by being rude and unpleasant .
I think mantel was laying the groundwork for what became Anne’s downfall. Cromwell states exactly why she has the king’s attention. She’s to produce an heir. Anne is a typical ladder climbing mean girl. Very popular, knows how to elevate or purge people around her. But ultimately, her inability to produce an heir made her Machiavellian behavior less effective. In the last episode, Cromwell and Anne have a scene where she dresses him down and threatens to unmake him. But her twitchy, nervous body language indicates she knows she’s losing. I have no doubt that this is pretty close to her character. She couldn’t have gotten as far as she did without a certain degree of ruthlessness and cleverness. But she got high on her own supply and forgot the prime reason the kingdom was upended for her. I don’t like Foy’s Anne. I’m guessing her contemporaries didn’t like her much either. She’s was the It girl of Henry’s court because she was smart, charming, graceful, witty snd accomplished. That doesn’t mean she was nice. So, probably accurate. I prefer Natalie Dormer’s portrayal because THAT Anne was compelling to watch while she danced and flirted. Maybe The Tudor’s were inaccurate and cheesy in many ways but Anne made sense because she was careful to keep her narcissism and arrogance on a low simmer. It should be noted that Anne helped elevate Cromwell but only to minor offices while she was alive. She kept him around for her own reasons but like the aristocrat she was, never saw him as her equal in rank or superior in cunning. Big mistake but typical of her peers. Circa Regna Tonat.
Elle, isn’t it Anne Boleyn as Cromwell sees her?
Like when he imagines stroking her neck.
Or when she bats her eyelashes at him. That’s how *he* sees Anne in that moment.
It’s not supposed to be a realistic or accurate portrayal of Anne Boleyn.
Rather, Mantel’s vision of how Cromwell sees her.
I think Claire Foy pulls it off magnificently!
That's how I interpreted it. Like how he "saw" Wolsey and his father at times. Claire Foy did really well presenting that assertive side of Anne that men found threatening or distasteful. We see her through Cromwell's misogynistic lens (he was played as a pretty flexible mind, but not so flexible as to view women as equals) in this show, and I think she delivered a quite dislikeable Anne.
While it is true the depiction is how Cromwell sees Anne, this scene is more objective. Anne is very condescending to Cromwell from our point of view. As Elle says - why would she act that way from the very beginning. This scene is not how Cromwell sees Anne. It is how she is introduced.
It would have been more in keeping with Mantel’s depiction if the introduction was far more subtle. In other words the way she spoke to him was ambiguous. A person disposed to dislike her could feel slighted, whereas the onlooker doesn’t see it.
Another thing, the laziness of pitting Anne against her sister and sister-in-law just bores me stupid. I was so much happier with the Jane Boleyn in the second series. I do wish people could write these relationships better than falling on the same tiresome unproven nonsense of constant vitriol between Anne and every woman she knows, especially the women in her family.
Jane Rochfird testified against Anne. She was the star witness. You can extrapolate some dislike, there.
@SuperStella1111 To be honest it's still conjecture as there's no evidence for that, she was never named at the trial. It was only stated "one woman" and there were at least 3 others (2 of whom were mentioned) who named and shamed Anne and her so-called behaviour. Also Jane was not at either trial - no one knows where she was either. The evidence actually points to it not being Jane simply because she was not named, would not - and did not - benefit from being a traitor's wife, had to beg Ctomwell for money from her father-in-law, asked for her marriage bed back, and wrote to George saying she would petition the king in his name. Though we know Jane was questioned by Cromwell, we don't know how it went down. All she did was tell the truth about how Anne spoke to George who told her that Henry was impotent or had trouble in that department, and of course it was used at the trial in letter form, however Cromwell never said it was George's wife who told him and there's no way he would have not announced it so publicly because it would add to the scandal and bolster the cooked up evidence even more; he wouldn't have been able to resist naming George's own wife but he didn't. And Jane wore black for the rest of her life. There's no evidence to say Jane and Anne hated each other, in fact Jane and Anne seemed to get on well, confided in each other and Anne asked her for help to get rid of a woman Henry was becoming interested in (before Jane Seymour). We don't even know Jane B was at court during their downfall. There is an AMAZING book by Julia Fox called Jane Boleyn: The Infamous Lady Rochford, please please read it it's sooooo good pleeease 🙏🏻 Trust me, I grew up believing Jane was to blame, but having read the book and listening to other historians use the contemporary evidence to debunk the myth, I come out believing I don't think she hated them and wanted them gone. If you read just one book on Jane B please go for that one 😁
@@RogieVixenwell, there’s a more recent book by a scholar, Courting Scandal, by James Taffe. Maybe not so innocent. The fact that she survived and was even part of the Seymour court is suspicious.
@JJMarie3509 I have that book but I haven't read it yet. I will say I wouldn't be surprised if Jane survived because Cromwell made a deal with her after the fall to spy for him, be his eyes and ears where he needed her (in the queen's apartments) which is how she continued her career at court. But then again many family members of traitors still maintained their careers through associated scandals after a while. Thomas Boleyn came back into favour before he died, Norfolk only became dangerously out of favour at the end of Henry's life, Henry's death saving him, and even though Charles Brandon had the audacity to secretly marry Henry's favourite sister, he didn't lose favour with Henry. It seemed to be pick and choose with Henry for his own benefit, and killing Jane then served no purpose for him. I think Cromwell may have thought Jane B could be useful to him (and she was concerning Anne of Cleves later) and that she owed him a debt by getting him to help her with finances etc. I think Jane was kept alive during the Boleyn fall simply because Cromwell and Henry knew it was all a load of bull anyway and there was no need to get rid of any of her ladies to "prove" any of the charges. There was also a good documentary using contemporary evidence a couple of years a go headed by Tracy Borman about Jane Boleyn. I just don't see Jane Boleyn hating her husband and sister-in-law so much she would act to have them judiciously murdered. I find the problem is that Jane and George's marriage is considered a bad one simply because they didn't have children (and there could be any number of reasons for that). Certain historians had read between the lines (like Warnicke with George's execution speech) and run with it, and the likes of Gregory have made a career of conjuring fiction from hearsay and calling it fact and twisting any truth that has survived over the centuries so it ends up in multiple media as fact and no one looks any deeper when they make historical dramas, probably because it's easier and more dramatic this way. I would love to watch a series or drama where they cover the Boleyn downfall and have Jane NOT be guilty for once. It would be so refreshing and interesting. I just think Jane did what everyone at court tried to do - survive. But I don't think throwing your in-law or husband under the bus would be the way to do it. Her future was very much tied in with the Boleyns once Anne was queen. Also, during Elizabeth's reign it was convenient to make Jane the scapegoat because Anne was being rehabilitated and no one would dare call Elizabeth's father a wife killer, so someone had to be blamed for that mess. And since it had been accounted Jane and Cromwell had spoken, who better than to put all the blame on a woman who had been executed as a traitor anyway? It fit the narrative very well and has echoed down the centuries. But how about we make a deal? I'll read the James Taffe one very soon if you read Julia Fox's? 😁
@ sure, it’s on my reading list. 😇 Taffe did find a thing or two that was overlooked. Both biographies suffer from the problem that there just isn’t enough of a written record ( letters, etc.) to know who she really was. Similar to Anne Boleyn in many ways (her response to Henry’s letters.)
Every time she says his name it feels like a deliberate dig at him.
Silly complaint of mine: Anne had brown eyes.
That too
Yeah I know it doesn’t really matter if the character looks like her but you can’t just hire an blonde with blue eyes or an black women as Anne Boleyn
Not in my family legend!
I read somewhere that Claire Foy tried to use brown contact lenses but they irritated her eyes so much that she gave up on them. Ditto for Natalie Dormer. Both actresses do have striking eyes, though, and I think that's the really important thing, as well as the quality of their acting of course.
@ yes ofc acting is the most important thing but I think taking an black women as Anne Boleyn just annoys me the same with the black cleopatra
The whole story line between Mary Boleyn and Cromwell seemed ridiculous to me also.
I loved it because Mary Boleyn and Cromwell were both marginal players at that point in the story. And I bet they could have had a happy marriage if her Uncle Norfolk agreed to it.
I think that the Wolf Hall's Anne Boleyn was how Cromwell perceived Anne Boleyn, so it's via HIS lense...taking to the account also that this is a fictional account of Cromwell's perspective by Mantel. I actually thought Claire Foy delivered a powerful Anne Boleyn's performance. But yeah, she's mostly in the negative light in the show, I almost saw very little attractive quality of Anne (beside that Claire Foy is gorgeous that is), in this portrayal. She's just one dimensional, almost, but then I remind myself, this is not the 'full' Anne Boleyn, this is Cromwell's lens on her and he didn't have a great opinion of her even when they're allied.
I think what they were trying to do was imagining Anne in Cromwell's perspective and seeing what he thought of her. I think the problem stems from that Anne was antagonistic towards Cromwell in the beginning, when instead, we should've gotten to see these two's relationship slowly decrease and sour over time as the season goes on from allies to enemies.
That would have been so nice :(
My view may be simplistic but I just put down the antagonism to Anne seeing Cromwell squarely as Wolsey's stooge, which must have been how he was perceived by many before and even after the Cardinal's fall. So here in this meeting it is almost like she is addressing Wolsey. Notice we never see a meeting between Wolsey and Anne, if that ever took place even in reality. The show/book make much of the similarities between the two men - the constant 'butchers boy / blacksmith's dog' references.
@jamesli9380 That's a really good point. Thing is, even Anne's antagonism toward Wolsey is overstated in Wolf Hall (and most other Tudor dramas TBF). Yes, he broke up her romance with Henry Percy, but she also knew he was her best hope of getting an annulment from the Pope so for at least a couple of years she put aside whatever resentment she may have felt, and actually had lots of cordial exchanges with him until it became obvious he could do nothing for her cause.
They were shown as cautiously allied at the start of wolf hall. I recall it peaked with the moment at the window when Anne & Crum are watching More retire his chain and celebrating their victory. She secured Crum the jewell house and he was kinda fantasizing, looking at her.
Idk, I loved it.
I like Claire Foy a lot as an actress but her Anne was too bad-tempered and bitchy, it was hard to imagine Henry VIII breaking with Rome for her! She did a great job with what she had though. Also I wish they'd given her brown contact lenses, minor thing but it bugs me 😂
@@Sabrinajaine men/people often fall madly in love with people who have huge character flaws, so I don't see that aspect as unrealistic.
She’s the best Anne because the chemistry with Damien (Henry) is electric, you believe in its destructive power; the portrayal is caricaturish and endearing. She captures Anne’s grieving and well-documented (and well-founded!) paranoia beautifully.
Idk I think Natalie Dormer did an excellent job showing the complexity or vulnerabilities of Anne Boleyn. Even if the writers over sexualized her character. Geneviève Bujold is #1 in my POV if you were to base the evaluation on how Anne was very dignified and witty. Dormer in my mind is excellent if one would want to have a "raw" view in terms of the wide range of emotions Anne could have had. I still cry each time watching either actress at the end. Willing to stand on this hill for that point ;)
I love it. Claire Foy's Anne is the new arriviste. She is being raised up, but she's vulnerable from the word go and she fights like a tiger, for me she encapsulates Anne in a way no other Anne ever has, the history can always be argued, but I think Claire Foy is such an incredible actress and she really delivers Hilary Mantel's take on Anne. And as for Anne being annoying, well she was known as the Great Whore by pretty much all of England, who all adored Catherine of Aragon, so isn't it fair to say that the whole of England was annoyed! Not just England, Chapuys and the Hapsburgs called her the concubine, and even the French would quite never quite commit. (I only know this because i read your fabulous book.) Henry moved heaven and earth to get her on the throne, but no-one else was pleased, no-one else got it. "Cremwell" may well be ridiculous but it is a great and succinct dramatic way to introduce this upstart with the fancy French manners who offended just about everybody right across Europe. And isn't that why we love Anne, because she took them all on, fearless, out of her depth, but she never gave up and she gave us our greatest Queen, that's my favourite bit of all, Henry! Anne had the last laugh.
I agree! To rise to the height she did, she had to have some less than pleasant attributes, and CF captures that. Real life Anne’s attitude to Katherine and Mary showed that,IMO. She once said she didn’t care if Katherine sunk to the bottom of the sea, she was abusive to Mary, etc. I’m also impressed by how Foy made Anne unpleasant yet still sympathetic at the end. Her execution scene always grips me.😢
I thought Claire did well
So did so I. It’s not every role that must be played through someone else’s eyes. That’s how I see what Mantel was doing. Anne Boleyn through Cromwell’s eyes.
Claire had to be clear enough that it wasn’t a role played straight; it was a skewed view of a character. But still make it believable. Not too over the top.
A very fine line.
I think she did it magnificently!
All is sacrificed by Mantel so that you root for Cromwell. It kind of reminds me of A Man For All Seasons where the movie does the same thing but for Thomas More. I think its completely fine in any regard for historical fiction writers to do this, pick a hero and run with them to the hilt. Mantel claimed a certain degree of credit as a historian though in combination with her writing so id say its fair game to critique her work more on these issues
Thank you for saying this! This is my LEAST fave AB portrayal. I can’t stand it. I also think Mantel wrote her as how Cromwell sees her… but nevethel3ss it’s insufferable. My fave is easily Dormer in The Tudors ❤
Well to be fair the Other Boleyn girl portrayal for me was the WORST! I respect Natalie Portman, but just no. Clair Foy did a great job if the intention was to use Cromwell's perspective.
Well, it is fiction and nobody knows it for sure. But honestly, Anne B. Could have recognized in Cromwell just the cardinal’s lawyer and Servant and she was definitely not amused about the poor results in the “great matter”. She saw herself as the queen in waiting, she wanted more respect and she had on top sometimes spicy Reactions, according with some Reports. I am perfectly fine with it.
But those reports were mostly written by her enemies. I have no doubt that, at times, she made emotional outbursts out of the difficulty and frustration of her situation. Her reputation is ruined and she’s being called the whore of Christendom but she actually resisted Henry at first because she wanted to preserve her chastity. However, why would Henry even find her appealing if she is so imperious and rude literally all the time? No, it makes no sense. I can’t see why Anne would deliberately antagonize people when she needed every ally she could get. I have to agree, this is one of the worst portrayals of Anne out there, except for the Other Boleyn Girl… that novel is absolute trash. I couldn’t bring myself to watch Wolf Hall or read Mantel’s novels because I’m tired of these really unimaginative, overly simplistic tropes of Anne being a scheming shrew and viper when there’s very little trustworthy, reputable evidence for that. These assumptions are usually based on hindsight. We KNOW that Henry will do anything and everything to annul Katherine and marry Anne, but there’s no way she could have foreseen any of that at the beginning of his pursuit of her. It’s absurd.
I’ll admit I’m not someone who thinks as Anne Boleyn as this harmless, innocent,and kind woman. When I read about her and watch things about her I’m kind of disappointed in her behaviors but this portrayal of Anne Boleyn had me thinking ok when is the execution scene. They made her extremely nasty in Wolf Hall. The actress is amazing so absolutely nothing against her.
I think Mantel is presenting Anne through Cromwell’s eyes.
The book is about Cromwell’s interior life. I think the series does the same. We see Cromwell, and we are also seeing the other characters through Cromwell’s eyes.
Like when Anne bats her eyelashes at him, being flirtatious and coy. I don’t think we are meant to take it literally but to understand that that’s how he sees Anne.
It’s a skewed view of Anne, revealing Cromwell’s perspective.
It’s just my opinion, though.
@ the entire series is through his lenses
The “Cremuel” pronunciation got on my nerves. I know the series did it because that’s how it was in the book, but ugh! Claire Foy is a great actress and did the best she could with the script IMO.
Anne Boleyn seemed to speak French and English fluently, so I assumed the constant mispronunciation of Cromwell's name was her deliberate insult to him.
Maybe so-or could be Hilary Mantel’s imagination also 😂
would have been ok if she had any other French affectations or a French accent, which was how it was supposed to come across in the book.
But here she is completely, traditionally English apart from that one word, so it came across as weird and out of place.
Anne’s pronunciation of Cromwell is reportedly historically correct.
I agree with you 100%. Like they threw Anne Boleyn under the bus to prop up Cromwell and justify his actions and her eventual collapse. They turned her into a nasty one-dimensional cardboard cutout to put the audience on his side. Frankly, to me that's on par with bad online fan fiction.
Quite frankly I found Wolf Hall very boring. And the change in Cromwell's character, major LOL. Apparently, we're supposed to believe what Holbein says about his sitters except when it comes to Cromwell, sure. I know it's historical fiction and it's from his point of view, but the characterization changes were too much a hill for me to climb.
What did Holbein say? I missed this
Oh god, I agree! So many people say she's one of their favorite Anne Boleyns. Like - why?! How?! She has only two attributes throughout this series: arrogant and (later) scared. This makes her such a weak and boring antagonist. We see nothing of her wit, her charms, intelligence, bravery. Watching this series I was wondering why the King would even want to marry that annoying spoiled brat. Also - Claire is small, pale and blue-eyed. Not at all ideal to play Anne Boleyn.
I totally agree. Anne was charming as well. I think she would have tried to woo Cromwell to her cause. The two were allies in the beginning. In fact, it seems they feel out over the monasteries. Anne wanted the money to be distributed for the poor, and not that all the monasteries be dissolved.
In many ways Anne was a far more sympathetic character. I 12:00 think most modern audiences would have supported Anne’s views. It would have been far more subtle to have shown the sympathetic side of her, as well as the later antagonism to Cromwell.
I was obsessed with Claire Foy as Elizabeth II in 'The Crown' and bought this series first season because I wanted to see her portrayal of Anne. What a disappointment! The very worst scenes in this series were the ones that she was featured in. I hated EVERYTHING about her - the lines she spoke, the way she was dressed, the accent, the attitude, EVERYTHING! She played Anne as so nasty, one was left to wonder just what Henry was supposed to have seen in her! It spoiled the whole series for me. And I am NOT a fan of Anne Boleyn! And I agree with you that it makes no sense that Anne would antagonize Cromwell - they were both devotees of the "new religion," moreover, HE was the instrument by which the king was hoping to achieve his goal of marrying her! What in the world was this writer thinking? Even if Mantel wrote her that way, it should have been obvious that it doesn't work for the script, however she may have been able to justify it in the book.
'Cremuelle' is deliberate in the book: Mantel did not write by accident and she was an English person after all.
I agree. Anne Boleyn’s character here is a kind of throwback to an earlier more negative version of her. I think there are 2 things going on: she had a lot of enemies so there was a side to her that perhaps was not very pleasant. Maybe this is how a lot of people saw her. But more important the that the hero of the story is Cromwell, and since he will later be responsible for the nature of her downfall (Henry wanted her gone but HOW she was eliminated was Cromwell) she needs to be presented as somewhat distasteful so that the audience doesn’t sympathize too much with her. And Cromwell can continue to be the hero. It’s a psychological manipulation for the audience’s sympathy.
Anne Boleyn was not considered beautiful by the standard of her day but was said to have had considerable allure and a magnetic personality and frankly that did not come across at all in Claire Foy's portrayal. My personal favorite portrayals are Geneviève Bujold (Anne of Thousand Days) and Charlotte Rampling (Henry VIII and his Six Wives).
Who are your top 5 Anne Boleyn portrayals?
I made a video on this ☺️
👩🏻💻🇺🇲 I am a Tudor enthusiast. I did not care for Natalie Portman (worst) and her scene that ended Anne Bolen's life. Anne was Queen for Heaven's sake and her crying and carrying on in front of peasants was way overboard which in turn tanished the rest of her portrayal more me in "The Other Bolen Sister." Clair Foy (best) for me balanced the life's anxiety and nobilty in "Wolf Hall" as she did in the "Crown." Genevieve Bujold, made an excellent Anne against Richard Burton's Henry VIII.
Probably going to be roasted, but I did enjoy Natalie Dormer's portrayal of her. Natalie had clearly done her research and gave Anne a more nuanced, complicated approach. Anne was witty, charming, politically savvy, but Natalie also showed that Anne wasn't this great seductress that history paints her to be. My favorite though has to be Bujold's version though. Top tier.
My impression of historical Anne is that she started out sympathetic and charming, then victimized and trapped by Henry’s infatuation with her. As she accepts her fate, she turns her resentment onto Wolsey, who was only doing the King’s bidding, but was a safer object for her hate. She slowly turns into a manipulator and a schemer, and finally, an arrogant persecutor of not only Wolsey, but more unforgivably, Mary. By the end, she has gone back to sympathetic victim, and she accepts her karma and her death, which she faced with dignity. Any other portrayal of her is not just or accurate, imo.
Spot on! While the real Anne could be abrasive, she was also charming and vivacious - qualities that drew Henry VIII to her.
There’s so much that’s wonderful about Wolfhall but the portrayal of Anne Boleyn and her family is definitely not one of them. Anne is always stalking around in a flaming temper, Mary Boleyn is (of course) blonde and more personable, while Jane Rochford is dressed perpetual black to show what a witch she is. Also, Anne was known for her style, so why on earth does she look like someone who picked her clothes from the dressing up box, badly fitting and a bit cheap. Don’t get me started on what she wears on her head, it appears to be an Alice band with some glass beads stuck on, it’s definitely not the French hood that she made so fashionable.
All of this is worthy of really poor novelists like Philippa Gregory, not Mantel who writes with great subtlety and nuance. She developed a really fascinating picture of Cromwell, so it’s a pity that she presented the tired, lazy view of Anne and her family.
I saw some material on why those costuming fails happened. Fit was accidental timing issue. But the headbands are down to Modern Audience's perceived extreme dislike of medieval head covering. On young sexy women. But also the same reason film medieval warriors do not wear helmets. So you can see their faces. I am happy to see that some more recent productions are being more faithful.
The problem with her personality is that unbiased written reflections on the character of powerful people tend not to exist. Or survive if they ever did.
Yes, yes, yes! Anne should have stood out from all the rest. It's as if the costumers couldn't be bothered.
Then what is your top 5?
I made a video on this ☺️
Your complaints are with Hilary Mantel rather than the actress
I feel as if many characters were bent past recognition to boost Cromwell
I think it’s all supposed to be through Cromwell’s eyes. It’s all skewed. We’re getting Cromwell’s vision.
Not even how Mantel thought it really was, but how Mantel portrays her own vision of what *Cromwell* sees.
That’s my understanding of the book and the series.
I think Claire pulled it off magnificently!
"You may not look to have me speak to you as I should do to a nobleman, because you are an inferior person." Anne Boleyn to Mark Smeaton, who was executed for supposedly being her lover. When she learned he'd been put in irons she was equally dismissive of his case purely based on status; "he was a person of mean birth and the others were all gentlemen" It is not then a huge leap of logic to suggest she would have been equally as dismissive of Cromwell and his own background of being from the commons.
Of course, all the men of 'noble' birth of the time would have been arrogant and priggish too; but there's plenty of evidence in the historical record that, for all Anne's talents and intelligence, she was equally as abrasive as the men, indeed this may be why she played the power game so well, and was resented by and offensive too those who were competing with her.
This video says "I imagine... I imagine..." but imagination isn't really history, and you can't really judge historical figures by modern views of morality and character; Anne Bolyen may have been an impressive woman but that is not the same as saying she's a woman modern people can or should admire, especially on the basis of what we imagine or wish were true. Did she wish for the money taken from the Monasterys to be used for the poor? Possibly. Did she also talk to her family in language "you wouldnt use to a dog"? Also possibly true. Those who rise to the top, even they do good, and especially in Tudor times, were not necessarily nice people. And that goes for the women too, much as we might like to be kind to them just because Henry VIII was not.
This was said very well
What is history if not an imaginative assessment of facts and people within their context?
Preach.
I'm sorry, Elle. You may be a terrific historian with incredible knowledge of the past, but your understanding of film writing, acting, and adaptation of history for dramatic purposes is lacking. The cast and creatives behind Wolf Hall are all at the height of their storytelling powers. Might I suggest you retitle this clip, not as "Why Wolf Hall's Anne Boleyn is BAD", but "Why I had issues with Wolf Hall's portrayal of Anne Boleyn".
Must say your reviews and commentaries are exceptionally entertaining. Great work
Thank you so much! So grateful you’re here!
I like Claire Foy a lot and she's a brilliant Elizabeth II, but yeah I did not gel with her portrayal of Anne. But then again it is how Hilary Mantel wrote her, so fair enough. Obviously, Anne wasn't a saint and could be difficult and at times nasty (concerning Mary I) etc etc, but she was still a human being with all the faults which humans carry. Even though Anne is my fave, I know that if I had lived then I would probably be "Team Katharine" and would maybe have even liked Jane Seymour as a person better, however I'm in this timeline and from an early age Anne drew me to her, and everything I've read and watched still keeps her as my fave. I just don't feel any warmth coming from Foy's Anne whatsoever other than when she's playing with Elizabeth on her lap. I would say it's more a problem with the writing than the performance.
I think Anne’s portrayal is supposed to be through Cromwell’s eyes.
I think the series presents her how Cromwell is seeing her. Not necessarily as she realistically was.
That’s my understanding of the book / series. Just my opinion, though.
@m.h.6499 ah ok, that's fair. I did just buy Wolf Hall so I will read it with what you said in mind - it will help a lot especially if Anne is written that way or worse! in the book too 😆
😂 I have to agree. I don't think she'd have been like that.
I love how it winds you up , French passion! 😎
Yeees, yes yes yes! There were so many things that bothered me about this Anne Boleyn. The portrayal seemed to anticipate and pander to some kind of young, modern audience that would mindlessly cheer this anachronistic, 15th century woman. Mary Boleyn was off putting and so was Jane Boleyn. The argument scene with Henry Norris made no sense, either. So glad to see your critique. Thank you! All the women's clothes were bad, too!
Honestly the portrayal of women is really pathetic. I should make a video on that ha!
This is a piece of television. It is based on several novels. What people in the comment section appear to misunderstand is that a novel - a novel that benefits from not inconsiderable research by the writer - requires certain technical prerequisites to drive narrative whilst maintaining structure. The novels are not academic works. They don't pretend to be, and anyone labouring under the misapprehension that they are text books will quite naturally be disappointed as well as perplexed.
My personal opinion is that the television adaptation was a wonderful achievement. Beautifully filmed - the decision to film night scenes in candlelight being inspired - the tension and animus between the central players was compelling.
Is it possible to appreciate something as well made as this whilst being fairly well versed in the known extant history? Obviously I think so.
The pronounciation of 'Cromwell' in 'Wolf Hall' seems to have vexed some people. I think it was an attempt to pronounce the way his name was spelt on various receipts and state papers rather than how Anne Boleyn might have said it. Cromwellian scholar, Diarmaid MacCulloch, thinks that it was 'Crummel'...so even then, opinion on pronounciation was an issue it seems.
My opinion is that she was mocking him.
I was so pleased to find this video! I was finding it very jarring every time Anne said Cromwell’s name with a French accent. I love Claire Foy as an actress normally, but I did not like her portrayal of Anne Boleyn in Wolf Hall . I think it might have been the decision of the writer and director though.
Thank you! 🙏🏻
Mantel's Anne Boleyn is much more of an ambitious social climber than the other portrayals that I've seen - and I think that this is truer to the character of the real woman. _Groigne qui groigne_ was her motto - "let grumble who grumble," I don't care what others think of me. Anne could be incredibly sharp with and disrespectful towards people. Besides the dangerous atmosphere, when Cromwell's commission of Oyer & Terminer began its proceedings, I think that Anne's ladies-in-waiting were eager to reveal inconvenient information about the queen, beyond merely being frightened into doing so; Anne inspired no loyalty. I believe that Anne was the victim of a smear campaign, in order to get her out of the way. However, the claim that Anne had committed treason was made more credible given her public image. Henry could never have dispensed with his wife Katherine of Aragon by accusing her of adultery - Katherine had too many defenders and no one would believe the charges anyway. I prefer Mantel's characterization to "Anne, Innocent Victim." In the film _Anne of the Thousand Days,_ Anne Boleyn is presented as the recipient of Henry's entirely unsolicited and unwanted attentions. I don't think Anne's relationship with Henry was free from goading and tempting on her part. Anne grew up at the French court - a highly sexualized arena filled with courtly love i.e. flirting, which Anne surely brought to the Tudor court.
I completely disagree with you. On all the points you’ve made. She did inspire loyalty. Her ladies in waiting kept her book of hours for generation, preserving her voice as much as they could. If it’s not loyalty I don’t know what is. She was feisty and did say what she had to say and she made enemies. But that was it. She wouldn’t disrespect anyone who didn’t disrespect her first. As for the French court, you are so far from the truth. She spent her time with Claude who was never involved in any sexualised type of activities at court. But what do I know? Apart from the fact that I have literally written a book on Anne, how the French saw her, how even the ones who didn’t like her but weren’t doing Henry’s propaganda thought of her.
I had the same, but only in the movie. In the book Anne was (in Cromwells point of view) one of the kings women. As long as they were not too interfering he handles them as the same 'woman with the king at this moment'. But Anne was always scared she was not good enough, so she 'highered' herself in being a sort if an arrogant bitch. Knowing there were enough men who were admiring her for being such a 'badass'. Claire Foyle can play much other roles very, very good but Anne Boleyn is not one of them. Nathaly Dormer is the one who can play the arrogant but also naughty (?) or 'I know many men lay at my feet-wittiness' with a superbe balance...In my opinion, offcourse
Charlotte Rampling was my favorite.
I despise this version of Anne and the way she pronounces Cromwell sets my teeth on edge. Lol
Me too!
No I do agree with you about her portrayal however and was not a very likable person and I could see her being like that like very haughty and very nasty because she thought she was all that and a bag of chips
I really don’t think she was. I wrote a book about that. She wasn’t perfect. But she wasn’t as she’s portrayed in this show.
Wolf Hall is an adaptation of a fictional book that has certain historical context.
It doesn't claim to be a perfect representation of actual historical events for goodness sake.
If it was there wouldn't have been so many non white servants, let alone a black member of the aristocracy sitting at Henry's council table for heaven's sake.
Take it for what it was, a highly watchable, well scripted and superbly acted historical drama.
Congratulations to all concerned.
I wondered about "Cremuelle" when I read it in the book!
Same!
@@bodacioustness5054 the idea in the book is that Anne had spent a lot of her early life in the French court, so had picked up a number of French affectations and ways of speaking.
that's why she calls him Cremuel.
this does not really come through in the show, where she presents as totally English apart from that one word.
@@countdowntorevolution9986 Yes, I remember the idea from the book. As Elle pointed out here, it would most likely have been pronounced differently
You are not Thomas Cromwell, whose point of view if what we see her through. Bad literary comprehension here.
She’s supposed to have a French accent for speaking French for many years.
It is not French though.. I’m French and it is not the French pronunciation ha
@@AlicenLyne but she doesn't have a french accent in the show, apart from that one word.
In my opinion, Natalie Dormer was the worst Anne Boleyn. Her facial expressions, or grimaces , of passion and anger were horrible. And her acting was very over dramatic.
I really liked Claire Foy as Anne. But we all have our favourites.
That scene was unfortunate
😻🏵️Anne was rude to Cromwell . They had a very public row,but this was later ,when their relationship had broken down.Before that she would have treated him,with politeness and civility as she would have treated all servants .I would think being raised and serving in the European courts under Margaret of Austria ,Claude of France and later Katherine of Aragon.She would have or should have learnt how they dealt with servants and it wouldn't have been by being rude.Even if they disliked that person ,not to their face.I don't believe Katherine of Aragon, although she may referred to Anne as the scandal Christendom ,but not to her face.If Anne was rude to people like Cromwell,she must have forgotten what she had learnt on how Queens are expected to conduct themselves towards others and especially servants .Which is not by being rude and unpleasant .
I think mantel was laying the groundwork for what became Anne’s downfall. Cromwell states exactly why she has the king’s attention. She’s to produce an heir. Anne is a typical ladder climbing mean girl. Very popular, knows how to elevate or purge people around her. But ultimately, her inability to produce an heir made her Machiavellian behavior less effective. In the last episode, Cromwell and Anne have a scene where she dresses him down and threatens to unmake him. But her twitchy, nervous body language indicates she knows she’s losing. I have no doubt that this is pretty close to her character. She couldn’t have gotten as far as she did without a certain degree of ruthlessness and cleverness. But she got high on her own supply and forgot the prime reason the kingdom was upended for her.
I don’t like Foy’s Anne. I’m guessing her contemporaries didn’t like her much either. She’s was the It girl of Henry’s court because she was smart, charming, graceful, witty snd accomplished. That doesn’t mean she was nice.
So, probably accurate. I prefer Natalie Dormer’s portrayal because THAT Anne was compelling to watch while she danced and flirted. Maybe The Tudor’s were inaccurate and cheesy in many ways but Anne made sense because she was careful to keep her narcissism and arrogance on a low simmer.
It should be noted that Anne helped elevate Cromwell but only to minor offices while she was alive. She kept him around for her own reasons but like the aristocrat she was, never saw him as her equal in rank or superior in cunning. Big mistake but typical of her peers. Circa Regna Tonat.