@Jungle Bunny You seemed very pissed at fall out boy. With who between them that you slept and then all you got was that stupid song written about you?
Joe Trohman is the real visionary of the band if you ask me. He started FOB at age 16 inviting Pete to work with him. I want to call him lucky but he earned all the band has gained since day 1 by either leading or following when necessary to get to the next level.
All of the not pete members are pretty underrated imo Not trying to knock on pete because the lyricism of fall out boy is pretty important but andy joe and patrick have proven themselves to actually be pretty goddamn good musicians
@@librariancat.7074 I always find this to be funny in a good way, because when Folie à Deux dropped it was a really controversial album. It just shows that Pete was so ahead of his time with these concepts and records that everyone eventually got it. Same thing happened when they dropped Save Rock and Roll and then suddenly Folie à Deux became a cult classic and now 11 years later Save Rock and Roll is getting its respect now as a definitive come back album. Fallout Boy is the one band where they showed countless times they're not interested in just doing the same thing over and over again. They could've made a million Under the cork tree's and Infinity on High's and kept those fans happy, but they'd also become niche.
They also made really fun music videos where they constantly sent themselves up, and this became a big part of their overall identity. Self parody and not taking yourself seriously are underrated elements. This and the constantly evolving pop-inflected music.
Agreed totally. I have always felt like this started in the mid to late 90's with bands like Blink 182 (the ultimate school boy humour), Mxpx, Unwritten Law, NFG, Offspring to a degree and other such pop/skate punk bands. The "hardcore" side of music is always way too cool and gave these bands so much shit but it certainly looked like they were having alot of fun and taking alot of $$$ to the bank. I always reckon the BEST band is the one having the most fun or that you the listener enjoy listening to the most.
It took me twelve years to meet Pete Wentz. What a chill down to earth guy. I had such a nice conversation with him telling him that I had started listening to Fall Out Boy in 2005 and how they were my favorite band. I was able to tell him that he was my favorite lyricist and that his lyrics really helped me. His expression and wrinkled brow told me that this wasn't something that he heard very often. I always pay attention to lyrics first in songs so of course I would pay attention to his witty play on words. I took a picture with him and as I walked away, he asked if I was going to their show tonight. I said yes and that it was my fourth one. I also tugged at my FOB t-shirt and said that I had gotten it at Civic. Pete's face was priceless. They had done Honda Civic Tour in 2007. I was going to their latest tour in 2017 that night...
hey, you're so lucky! Pete's lyrics and vision +Patrick's voice and song-writing+Andy and Joe's devotion is the formula that makes them one of the best pop punk emo whatever bands
I feel like you failed to mention that Patrick Stump is one of the greatest vocalists alive and that Pete's wordplay and metaphor godliness; Really helped what they were selling. You also forgot to mention Pete's willingness to sacrifice his mental health to continue to write heartfelt songs that were genuine and real. They're a duo that rivals all the greats. I can prove Patrick Stump is one the GOAT vocalist with 5 songs.
As far as Pete's lyrics goes...he got in trouble for copping some of American Nightmare/Give Up the Ghost lyrics on a few songs..oops! He was mostly paying homage to the hardcore he loved (you can see him in that GUTG hoodie a lot in the earlier days) but still kinda funny
I love the no bull shit attitude you have to your explanations of the music industry, your insights have given me more legitimate advice and tools for progression as a band than anyone else I’ve watched or met, keep up the great work man.
Patrick's voice is why I fell in love with this band and continue to play their albums. Hyper-melodic and full of emotion, it's easy to identify a FOB song just by hearing Patrick sing.
Pete wentz being a pretty bastard was definitely a big help, I remember how even girls from other scenes like punk and metal had pictures of him and how every emo boy trying to imitate how he looked in order to improve their odds of hooking up (can't say I blame them) Another solid effort on the reverse engineering format, definitely keep doing them
A good point about everyone trying to imitate Pete Wentz' look - and Pete himself was pretty openly taking from Orange County fashion trends...pioneered by none other than James Hart and Javier Van Huss of Eighteen Visions. Most of his signature flat-ironed hair, tight pants, and 'guyliner' style was pulled straight from SoCal fashioncore. 18v made it popular within the scene, then FOB/Wentz made it popular on an international level. Now "emo" and myspace "scene" are retro fashion styles which modern teens imitate with romanticized faux-nostalgia, the same way young milennials do with the 90s, old milennials do with the 80s, etc. It's quite a wild thing to observe lol
I can't resist. I have to tell everyone here that I now own one of Andy Hurley's drumsticks. I catched it at my FIRST concert ever, in Lille (France) during their Save Rock & Roll tour, about 2k people were there and I was not even close to the scene. It was pretty much the luckiest thing that ever happened to me so you don't have to feel jealous though. :v
Awesome video! I like the aspect that Patrick Stump did not have to be the frontman even though he was the main singer. Such a great thing to see in the scene. I saw a few other bands try to model this format but it can be hard with singers' egos. Great points in this video. Keep them coming!
I nearly had a heart attack when I FINALLY heard them play Grand Theft Autumn (Where is Your Girl) live. It only took me four shows and a decade to hear it live. I had given up hope of ever hearing it live at that point.
In aligning with point #2, they also agreed long ago that they all split FOB profits equally, so the "frontman" isn't making more than anyone else as far as the band goes.
@@Iyashikei-t4u I'm not sure about this but I know for bands, the singer/songwriter usually gets the higher percentage of profits since he/she writes the song. For FOB, they all agreed very early on that they split equally. Stump mentioned in an interview " _If there’s four of us onstage, the four of us are receiving the same amount of credit, the same amount of money and the same amount of everything_ ”
@@Iyashikei-t4u It depends. You can make a case Pete deserved the lion share of the profits because he wrote all the hit songs and he handled pretty much all the interviews. Patrick's music and the instrumentals from Andy and Joe were super important as well, but If Pete wanted to be a dick and said ok here's 40 percent and I'm taking 60 percent I don't think he'd be wrong.
I feel like another driving factor is Patrick's polystylistic/cross-genre interests as a vocalist and musician, as he's been delving into mainstream production (as well as singing RnB covers) since the early days! His ability and interests served as an excellent jumping-off point for their mainstream progression, imo.
I'm a tad late to this vid. Regarding Fall Out Boy working with songwriters and producers: I work in the book publishing industry as a "development editor." I do exactly what these songwriters and producers are doing with bands: I take a raw manuscript and I work with the author to make it better; make it tight, fix holes, build up important parts, re-organize, and, yes, make the book more marketable and (hopefully) successful. My goal is to leave the voice and vision of the author intact. I don't write their books for them (those are called "ghostwriters"). My name rarely gets into the book outside of the occasional kind "thank you" in the acknowledgments, but this is what I do. It is not considered "selling out" for authors to work with a development editor; it's considered a smart business move.
I've been a huge fan of this band for 10 or 11 years and this is maybe the second time I've seen a male rock aficionado give them the props they deserve and articulate it in such a clear and honest fashion. Loved the vid. Thank you for it. I'd love a Panic! at the Disco and Coldplay vid. Thanks!
Fall Out Boy songs are pure poetry. They capture human pain and make it funny in their own unique way. Filled with classical references and all kinds of Easter eggs, these songs helped me and many ore switch sadness for humor. They have ran their business as total pros since day one and they deserve ALL of the success and abundance of the world.
Emo/pop punk was a thing, but I feel like it wasn’t dominating at the time - bands like Blink 182 and Green Day were kind of falling off, but then Fall Out Boy just exploded. I can’t comment on the behind-the-scenes stuff, but their songs were just waaay better than anything their peers were putting out at the time.
k_stud agreed! Patrick’s lyric writing was one of the best of that time. There are songs that were from the from under the cork tree album that still bring back good and bad memories, and it’s all because of what was written, and how he sang them.
I remember at my HS that guys were seeking other music around 2004 (outside of emo/pop-punk) but girls were way into bands like Fall Out Boy. That might explain something.
I would also add Patrick Stomp's unbelievably good singing skills and genius level composition skills... some of their songs, specially the old ones have a ridiculous amout of intricate arangements
No shit I was just having a conversation about Fall Out Boy and all this time I believed it was all luck, right time right place. I had no idea how calculated all their moves were and that Pete was the brains behind the band. Haha! Great video!
Pete is so charismatic and such a businessman between owning his own label and clothing company that being able to make FOB explode was secondary to him.
I was just talking today about the rise of Fueled by Ramen records. You should do a video about Fall Out Boy creating FueledByRamencore, how they essentially created the careers for Panic!, Cobra Starship, Gym Class Heroes, and all those bands, and how FBR to this day are the transitional label from DIY to mainstream (Paramore, The Front Bottoms, Basement). Anyway love the vid as always and fucking love Fall Out Boy! Totally agree they deserve the success and put the work in. Andy Hurley is a fucking legend! Even if he is a little nuts with the xvx thing lol
THE PUNK ROCK MBA: How did they get so big?? Joking, but you've doubled your subs in like two weeks! Loving this channel and I'm happy you're starting to see more success for your hard work!
I love how your video got the point without any bias. I think some of the key factors were already addressed, such as Pete being a big visionary, but he also had brains behind it. he wasn't all talk. Patrick knowing from day one what he role was, plus both Andy and Joe all putting it together. They had a very rare band chemistry and very little drama. I don't care for their newer music. Kinda fell out after Save rock n roll, but i can appreciate they worked really hard to get where they are and stay relevant.
You should do one on Linkin Park. They have at least 60,000,000 likes on Facebook and no other band that I know even comes close to that number. That's pretty telling.
radical FOB's members were in a hardcore band with Tim McIlrath and FOB started as pop punk. ADTR is pop punk and metalcore, both legitimate punk subgenres and BMTH were metalcore too, so yeah they all are/were punk for at least a significant portion of their careers
It helps that these dudes can WRITE some killer songs too. Coming from the Chicago HC scene, all of their preceeding metalcore/hc bands were bangers. Racetraitor, Killtheslavemaster, and Arma Angelus fuckin' ripped. Bringing together all these songwriting/playing chops with Pete/Joe/Andy was huge. Great vid
Enjoy the vids, looks like you found a series people really bite on, congrats. Would love to see one about a modern “soundcloud” musician, music seems more brand and trend oriented to me than ever before.
Also, the band is talented like crazy, Joe is a great lead guitarist, andy's drum skills are fire, Pete's lyrics are amazing, and Patrick's vocal range and styles are the best i've ever heard, he can do anything
I had that impression of Pete just from watching a few of their live shows. He's definitely the front man.. I just didn't know how deep that role went for him.
The thing that kept them in my playlist all these years was absolutely 100% Patrick's voice. I feel like they evolved with every album and I honestly feel like they are almost the VanHalen or Aerosmith of my generation in that people love to hate them. But when that opening bassline of "Runnin' With the Devil" starts, you know everyone feels that shit. Same goes for that opening drum part on "Dance Dance" I feel like if you play that or "sugar" or "TFTM" at pretty much any bar or party, the majority of people are gonna jam to that shit. Just think, at some point they will most likely be played on classic rock stations if radio is still a thing.
I'm a huge punk fan who works in data analytics. I've been going through your videos and really enjoy your critical analysis on FOB and the 90s skate punk scene. Your channel is awesome. I'd love to see your take on Green Day's career.
Pete Wentz to FOB is what Lars to Metallica. They might not be the best technical instrumentalists but theyre the businessmen who get their bands to sell.
I just love the « fuck ego » teamwork spirit here. Any successful business is based on this. Projects are more important than people. Once you embrace this and put yourself aside, you DO become good at what you’re doing. They should teach that kind of project management in business schools.
The fact is they were good enough songwriters to blend the best elements of hard core, emo and pop into songle song on their early albums. Their first 2 are my favorite and I like em up through Infinity. Their past 3 haven't really done it for me, but that's subjective. Maybe do a How Did They Get So Big on AFI?
Ill never forget when I met those dudes! It was when they first started back in 02-03 I think.?? They were opening a show with Alister at a tiny bar that had a really small stage (The NorthStar bar in Philly) there was me and 2 other ppl that knew who they were, so after there set I went to there merch table n the guitar player Joe was working n I ended up shootin the shit w him, got his Email addy his personal MySpace profile!! He was really Down to earth n cool! I still have the paper where he wrote his Email on!!! Thx for another great video Finn! Keep up the great work!☺👍
I'm watching this 3 years later and I think Rock is on an up again and it's nice to see some of the old bands making great new content again. The new Alexisonfire album for example is exceptional
Not the biggest fan of this band but great video nonetheless, everything you said here is on point. Love this series! Would love to see an episode on Ghost!
Man, I have been a massive fucking fan of these guys since Take This to Your Grave. It’s so awesome to see bands you love get huge, especially when they have the talent to back their success. I’d love to see an MCR or The Used video at some point, too. Keep being awesome, my dude
You should do a video on either Brockhampton or Odd Future. I think they serve as a strong example of taking the world by storm in a DIY manner and it would be awesome to dissect them.
As much as I hate to admit it, they're what started getting me really into rock when I was nine, because before that all I listened to was an Elvis greatest hits CD. Yeah, I had my emo phase at nine, but without dressing like it or anything. Thanks to my sister for accidentally leaving her old From Under the Cork Tree CD in the basement years before
I have to say, their cover of Michael Jackson's 'Beat It' is quite possibly one of my favorite covers of all time. I don't care what people think about pop covers, it's a great fucking song.
but theres literally nothing special about it right? Not even sure why it was necessarily, just a basic cover in a more rock style, I could barely tell a difference between the MJ version and cover back then
Patrick Stump's incredible voice, Pete's lyrics which I still don't understand but seem very poetic deep and sometimes political... The songs had a lot of drama musically as well as lyrically and captured the imagination with something very unique. Same with my chemical romance, the killers, kings of leon... I miss bands! Mainstream music these days is mostly solo artists
I think I remember Motionless In White doing something very similar for their one of their first EP's transitioning into their first full length. When Love Met Destruction was put out on Tragic Hero to get the momentum going even though they were already signed to Fearless Records and then Creatures came out on Fearless as soon it seemed like they were going to be a good investment from gaining all of their fans off of the previous stuff. Good on Pete from Fall Out Boy for coming up with that sort of idea because it has clearly been influential and helped other bands. On that note, maybe an episode on Motionless In White? They're kind of quiet right now because I think they're working on an album but it seems like they've gotten pretty huge over the last few years, especially in comparison to when I first saw them in 2010 on the Thrash and Burn Tour.
They def blew up! They’ve done a lot of the same things as FOB now that you mention it- look up how many co writers they have on their latest album for example (inc the very talented drew fulk and jeff dunne).
I remember seeing motionless in 2010 when they weren’t really big. Chris was at the merch table and he took a picture with me and told me he liked my red bow. I ended up having about a 15 min convo with him. And THAT is the reason I am a FAN FOR LIFE!
dude your videos are amazing. not even a huge punk rock enthusiast, but i've found such an interest getting to know these different bands through you. subscribed!
Good analysis and I’m endlessly fascinated by FOB’s hardcore roots. Also loved Stump’s guest vocals on that Weekend Nachos track. But if you don’t think bringing on “hitmakers” to write your music and make it as broadly appealing as possible is not “selling out” I simply don’t know what is. I guess selling out has to do with intentions. If maintaining standards and DIY ethics has nothing to do with their career goals, then I guess they never betrayed anything. I personally think treating your band like a soda brand and letting executives make most the creative decisions so that they can maximize profits is sort of gross, especially if they were part of the hardcore scene and know what the other side of the argument is.
Right, it’s up to each of us imo: if they feel ok about co-writing then theyre staying true to themselves. If they got pressured into it (which i dont think is the case) thats something else.
Unless it’s the original intention from the get go. If your plan from the first band meeting or practice was to be the biggest band on the planet, I’d argue it literally can’t be “selling out.” You’d have to at the very least veer off the original path at some point, right? But this band has always been a pop group from the jump.
Fallout Boy has never been a " hardcore" pop punk band. Pete has never been interested in that. He's always been interested in making popular hit records and making the band as mainstream as possible. He's never been shy about that. Dance Dance and Thnks fr th Mmrs are clearly songs written to be beyond the pop punk niche of music.I mean Kim Kardashian was in the fucking music video and this was in 07 at the height of their emo punk careers.
I have a fun story about fall out boy. Right when they were first coming out I saw them at warped tour and really liked their music (I hadn’t heard of them before that) and a couple hours later I was walking the festival and saw they had a booth with a really small line of people getting autographs so my sister and I since we really liked them from what we saw went and bought the take this to your grave album and had them sign it. They were the nicest guys, so genuine in conversation and that made me like them and their music more so from that day on I started following them and watched them grow to as big as they are now. Since then we have gone to literally every single headlining tour, not missing one. And it all started because on top of having great music they were just so down to earth and so nice to a couple of teenage girls wearing simple plans shirts at a music festival.
I have a memory of watching this video in the shower after shoveling snow in awful Kansas City snow the year the year it was released. I was emotionally at my lowest, my dad’s passing was mere months before, I was twelve and incredibly depressed, all these years later I’m a freshman in college just under three hours away from my moms house and I’m not even a fucking boy anymore. A lot can change in six years. If you’re reading this comment I want you to know that you’re loved, you matter, and you’re important. Don’t count yourself, you don’t know where you’ll go if you don’t try. Love you, love yourself, be yourself 💕💕
i kind hope you talk about how joe is the key who tied the band... I mean.. If they story true... The one who introduce pete to patrick is joe... And like that's the key point... oh and i agree wirh the self awareness thing... They know what people talking about them, joke bout them and they flip it back as somehow marketing campaigns... They not just sell music, i think the min factor is they share the vision to sell their own dream as a band and inspire people... That's like what pete talking about on every speech on their concert. What patrick or joe or andy talking about when they feel it to talk on interview...
I love the way you express you opinions and insight about the music industry so coherently. Really inspires my own music journalism and way of forming opinions
Great video❣️ I 💖 FOB & just about everything they put out, Patrick's vocals & Pete's lyrics are pure magic. I still have a signed CD & need 2 go see them in concert (just as long as they don't have another MGK opening 4 them)🤦
Having a vision for a single or whole album is essential to it's success. If it means bringing a producer like Babyface who specializes in a specific trait u want in ur project then u have to jump.
I know Finn has said these videos didn't perform very well and people weren't very interested in them, but I really enjoyed them and I wish he would bring them back. I always thought it was very interesting to get the "business" perspective of what enabled bands to become so popular
You totally blew my mind when you said Babyface produced Thnks Fr th Mmrs...and then I Wikipedia credits for the album and it turns out he produced two tracks! Never would have expected him to work with them, but super cool that he did.
In the beginning when you're naming off Viva La Bam and the Used, I think that was around the time Kelly Osbourne was dating Bert from the Used and he made an appearance on the Osbournes!
Hey Sarge, this series is amazing, great lore and extremely clear presentation, as always. You should make a place where we (or just me) can share thoughts for upcoming videos and discuss posted ones- Discord, forum, Reddit thread- something like that! Stoked for future content bro!
i discovered fall out boy in 2010, when i was 11 or 12. found a Take This To Your Grave CD at Goodwill and listened to the shit out of it for years. Then when i discovered that Pete and Andy were involved in the VSXE scene in the 90’s i was sold on FOB. They’re still one of my favorite bands and I have endless respect for those guys.
I hate when people say bands shouldn't work with producers... That's their job! The producers don't want to be in a band or be an artist on their own. They want to make music for others and they obviously have the amazing art gift of music/sound and know what it takes to put sound and words together to make something that sounds good. If it sounds good I'll listen to it. Period.
This week I watched a video about Fall Out Boy and one of the comments was about how much this person hates Pete for being selfish - which was why M A N I A is so bad. There were a lot of other comments of how bad this album is, but this one crushed me. I started crying bc I know how hard they worked to produce good songs. And it is different from everything that they've done before. But it doesn't mean it is bad. I don't think Pete is selfish at all. He just knows what he has to do to reach success.
I know this is old but I absolutely love M A N I A. It’s honestly what an album by a grown up FOB should sound like. Everyone wants them to sound like they did 15 years ago but their in their 30s and 40s now! I’m in their age group and truly appreciate each album bc I pretty much grew with them.
Great video series. I would never listen to any song by a band like this or play anything even close, but it’s cool to dissect how they navigated this world only few know
I saw this video. And the guy in the 4th picture that popped up was my husband. I SPIT MY DRINK. Wasnt expecting to see my husband in a random video lmao
I was never really a fan but I saw them when I was going to see other artist... they always put on a pretty decent show at the time. Even as a non fan, you could appreciate the energy they brought to the stage, crowd, and show This was the early and mid 2000s ... 2001... to like 2005-06
The real reason is they knew how to make a massive crossover hit. Sugar we're going down was literally on every radio station am musical channel from pop, rock, alternative, mtv, fuse, vh1. Even hip hop appeal because of the kanye an jay z cosign. That song is arguably one of the greatest crossover hits of all time. Everything after was losing their core fanbase for pop mainstream sound an audience.
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Dude, love your shirt in this vid!
umm that is HOW SOME PLAY BTHE GAME AT THAT LEVEL. ITS UNCOOL WEN A BAND WHO CAN WRITE WELL CALL IN THE HITMAKER. ITS FUCKED. WELL SOLD OUT FINT
Plus they got such good fashion sense.
And only good for the latest trends
Recently rediscovered how fucking much I love this and from under the cork tree forgot how replayable these two albums were
@The Lawnmower Ix. 091 lol dipshit
@Jungle Bunny its a reference for the song Our Lawyer Made Us Change The Name Of This Song So We Wouldn't Get Sued.
@Jungle Bunny You seemed very pissed at fall out boy. With who between them that you slept and then all you got was that stupid song written about you?
Joe Trohman is the real visionary of the band if you ask me. He started FOB at age 16 inviting Pete to work with him. I want to call him lucky but he earned all the band has gained since day 1 by either leading or following when necessary to get to the next level.
Dude, Joe doesn't get enough credit for what he's done in fob because he's so quiet. I agree with you.
And his guitar work in Folie a deux was waaaaay too underrated
All of the not pete members are pretty underrated imo
Not trying to knock on pete because the lyricism of fall out boy is pretty important but andy joe and patrick have proven themselves to actually be pretty goddamn good musicians
@@oldisbest470 folie a deux is also known to me as their best album. To bad it is underrated…
@@librariancat.7074 I always find this to be funny in a good way, because when Folie à Deux dropped it was a really controversial album. It just shows that Pete was so ahead of his time with these concepts and records that everyone eventually got it. Same thing happened when they dropped Save Rock and Roll and then suddenly Folie à Deux became a cult classic and now 11 years later Save Rock and Roll is getting its respect now as a definitive come back album. Fallout Boy is the one band where they showed countless times they're not interested in just doing the same thing over and over again. They could've made a million Under the cork tree's and Infinity on High's and kept those fans happy, but they'd also become niche.
They also made really fun music videos where they constantly sent themselves up, and this became a big part of their overall identity. Self parody and not taking yourself seriously are underrated elements. This and the constantly evolving pop-inflected music.
Agreed totally. I have always felt like this started in the mid to late 90's with bands like Blink 182 (the ultimate school boy humour), Mxpx, Unwritten Law, NFG, Offspring to a degree and other such pop/skate punk bands. The "hardcore" side of music is always way too cool and gave these bands so much shit but it certainly looked like they were having alot of fun and taking alot of $$$ to the bank. I always reckon the BEST band is the one having the most fun or that you the listener enjoy listening to the most.
How did they get so big? Well Joe met Patrick and he was like "yo I know about music"
But then Patrick was like "I know more about music"
@@katieabrego2245 that's impossible, we should start a band
Yeah, okay, it's cool
yo, this is a book store, not a music store
And then they met at Patrick’s house. And Patrick’s wearing shorts and socks and a hat.
It took me twelve years to meet Pete Wentz. What a chill down to earth guy. I had such a nice conversation with him telling him that I had started listening to Fall Out Boy in 2005 and how they were my favorite band. I was able to tell him that he was my favorite lyricist and that his lyrics really helped me. His expression and wrinkled brow told me that this wasn't something that he heard very often. I always pay attention to lyrics first in songs so of course I would pay attention to his witty play on words. I took a picture with him and as I walked away, he asked if I was going to their show tonight. I said yes and that it was my fourth one. I also tugged at my FOB t-shirt and said that I had gotten it at Civic. Pete's face was priceless. They had done Honda Civic Tour in 2007. I was going to their latest tour in 2017 that night...
hey, you're so lucky! Pete's lyrics and vision +Patrick's voice and song-writing+Andy and Joe's devotion is the formula that makes them one of the best pop punk emo whatever bands
I feel like you failed to mention that Patrick Stump is one of the greatest vocalists alive and that Pete's wordplay and metaphor godliness; Really helped what they were selling. You also forgot to mention Pete's willingness to sacrifice his mental health to continue to write heartfelt songs that were genuine and real. They're a duo that rivals all the greats. I can prove Patrick Stump is one the GOAT vocalist with 5 songs.
Great points! I just cant mention everything in these, ya know?
Of course man. I was just informing others. Still a great video 😁
Bane Chrismon He is an amazing vocalist, I just recently saw them live and Patrick hit it out of the park on every song.
I love Patrick and fob but his singing is not that great?
As far as Pete's lyrics goes...he got in trouble for copping some of American Nightmare/Give Up the Ghost lyrics on a few songs..oops! He was mostly paying homage to the hardcore he loved (you can see him in that GUTG hoodie a lot in the earlier days) but still kinda funny
I love the no bull shit attitude you have to your explanations of the music industry, your insights have given me more legitimate advice and tools for progression as a band than anyone else I’ve watched or met, keep up the great work man.
Thanks for the support man, it means a lot!
Patrick's voice is why I fell in love with this band and continue to play their albums. Hyper-melodic and full of emotion, it's easy to identify a FOB song just by hearing Patrick sing.
Pete wentz being a pretty bastard was definitely a big help, I remember how even girls from other scenes like punk and metal had pictures of him and how every emo boy trying to imitate how he looked in order to improve their odds of hooking up (can't say I blame them)
Another solid effort on the reverse engineering format, definitely keep doing them
A good point about everyone trying to imitate Pete Wentz' look - and Pete himself was pretty openly taking from Orange County fashion trends...pioneered by none other than James Hart and Javier Van Huss of Eighteen Visions. Most of his signature flat-ironed hair, tight pants, and 'guyliner' style was pulled straight from SoCal fashioncore. 18v made it popular within the scene, then FOB/Wentz made it popular on an international level. Now "emo" and myspace "scene" are retro fashion styles which modern teens imitate with romanticized faux-nostalgia, the same way young milennials do with the 90s, old milennials do with the 80s, etc. It's quite a wild thing to observe lol
I thought Patrick and Joe were both a lot cuter than Pete
patrick is fucking cute but pete is (was..) h ot..
@TokyoBlue I was never a fob fan but I totally agree about Patrick and Joe!
Yeah Pete being good looking helps them a lot..
I can't resist. I have to tell everyone here that I now own one of Andy Hurley's drumsticks.
I catched it at my FIRST concert ever, in Lille (France) during their Save Rock & Roll tour, about 2k people were there and I was not even close to the scene.
It was pretty much the luckiest thing that ever happened to me so you don't have to feel jealous though. :v
Awesome video! I like the aspect that Patrick Stump did not have to be the frontman even though he was the main singer. Such a great thing to see in the scene. I saw a few other bands try to model this format but it can be hard with singers' egos. Great points in this video. Keep them coming!
wonder why singers have big egos
Take this to your grave is a legit classic in my eyes and probably their best record
I nearly had a heart attack when I FINALLY heard them play Grand Theft Autumn (Where is Your Girl) live. It only took me four shows and a decade to hear it live. I had given up hope of ever hearing it live at that point.
In aligning with point #2, they also agreed long ago that they all split FOB profits equally, so the "frontman" isn't making more than anyone else as far as the band goes.
Good data point! And very consistent with how a hardcore band would do things. Thanks for watching!
Wait, isn't that just common sense?
@@Iyashikei-t4u I'm not sure about this but I know for bands, the singer/songwriter usually gets the higher percentage of profits since he/she writes the song. For FOB, they all agreed very early on that they split equally. Stump mentioned in an interview " _If there’s four of us onstage, the four of us are receiving the same amount of credit, the same amount of money and the same amount of everything_ ”
@@lollyprolly9418 In that case bands are just dumb. How many split because of financial differences?
@@Iyashikei-t4u It depends. You can make a case Pete deserved the lion share of the profits because he wrote all the hit songs and he handled pretty much all the interviews. Patrick's music and the instrumentals from Andy and Joe were super important as well, but If Pete wanted to be a dick and said ok here's 40 percent and I'm taking 60 percent I don't think he'd be wrong.
I feel like another driving factor is Patrick's polystylistic/cross-genre interests as a vocalist and musician, as he's been delving into mainstream production (as well as singing RnB covers) since the early days! His ability and interests served as an excellent jumping-off point for their mainstream progression, imo.
They also probably got a generation of kids into Michael Jackson when they covered Beat It.
I'm a tad late to this vid. Regarding Fall Out Boy working with songwriters and producers: I work in the book publishing industry as a "development editor." I do exactly what these songwriters and producers are doing with bands: I take a raw manuscript and I work with the author to make it better; make it tight, fix holes, build up important parts, re-organize, and, yes, make the book more marketable and (hopefully) successful. My goal is to leave the voice and vision of the author intact. I don't write their books for them (those are called "ghostwriters"). My name rarely gets into the book outside of the occasional kind "thank you" in the acknowledgments, but this is what I do. It is not considered "selling out" for authors to work with a development editor; it's considered a smart business move.
Well said
So kinda like the upgraded, Boss level version of a proofreader?
I always want to shake my fist at Fall Out Boy for taking that sweet Simpsons reference for a band name first. Curses ✊
Best/worst part is they didn't even come up with it - they crowdsourced the name at one of their first shows 😂
@kage 「影」 are you serious? 😆 how did you discover this? That's hilarious
@@flaminghead1vaso they actually let the fans be a part of their success.
I've been a huge fan of this band for 10 or 11 years and this is maybe the second time I've seen a male rock aficionado give them the props they deserve and articulate it in such a clear and honest fashion. Loved the vid. Thank you for it. I'd love a Panic! at the Disco and Coldplay vid. Thanks!
Appreciate the support! As you said- no reason not to give them the props they deserve!
theres a panic video 5 years later, expect the coldplay one 5 years later
Fall Out Boy songs are pure poetry. They capture human pain and make it funny in their own unique way. Filled with classical references and all kinds of Easter eggs, these songs helped me and many ore switch sadness for humor.
They have ran their business as total pros since day one and they deserve ALL of the success and abundance of the world.
Emo/pop punk was a thing, but I feel like it wasn’t dominating at the time - bands like Blink 182 and Green Day were kind of falling off, but then Fall Out Boy just exploded. I can’t comment on the behind-the-scenes stuff, but their songs were just waaay better than anything their peers were putting out at the time.
k_stud agreed! Patrick’s lyric writing was one of the best of that time. There are songs that were from the from under the cork tree album that still bring back good and bad memories, and it’s all because of what was written, and how he sang them.
Green Day and Blink both had a resurgence during that period with American Idiot and the self titled though.
Jeffery Jones this is true
I remember at my HS that guys were seeking other music around 2004 (outside of emo/pop-punk) but girls were way into bands like Fall Out Boy. That might explain something.
@@westronic nothing wrong with establishing a female fan base - the other side tends to follow eventually too!
I would also add Patrick Stomp's unbelievably good singing skills and genius level composition skills... some of their songs, specially the old ones have a ridiculous amout of intricate arangements
No shit I was just having a conversation about Fall Out Boy and all this time I believed it was all luck, right time right place. I had no idea how calculated all their moves were and that Pete was the brains behind the band. Haha! Great video!
Thanks for watching!
Pete is so charismatic and such a businessman between owning his own label and clothing company that being able to make FOB explode was secondary to him.
Great video! would be sweet to see a "Sum 41" version of this!
I was just talking today about the rise of Fueled by Ramen records. You should do a video about Fall Out Boy creating FueledByRamencore, how they essentially created the careers for Panic!, Cobra Starship, Gym Class Heroes, and all those bands, and how FBR to this day are the transitional label from DIY to mainstream (Paramore, The Front Bottoms, Basement).
Anyway love the vid as always and fucking love Fall Out Boy! Totally agree they deserve the success and put the work in. Andy Hurley is a fucking legend! Even if he is a little nuts with the xvx thing lol
I should do a video specifically about FBR! I actually fact checked this one with a friend of mine at the label lol
I came here to say the same thing.
And Paramore.
If "consumercore" isn't already a word, I am coining it right now.
THE PUNK ROCK MBA: How did they get so big?? Joking, but you've doubled your subs in like two weeks! Loving this channel and I'm happy you're starting to see more success for your hard work!
Thanks man! Appreciate the support
I love how your video got the point without any bias. I think some of the key factors were already addressed, such as Pete being a big visionary, but he also had brains behind it. he wasn't all talk. Patrick knowing from day one what he role was, plus both Andy and Joe all putting it together. They had a very rare band chemistry and very little drama. I don't care for their newer music. Kinda fell out after Save rock n roll, but i can appreciate they worked really hard to get where they are and stay relevant.
"i'd look good and be charming" he's so good looking and charming
Exactly
You should do one on Linkin Park. They have at least 60,000,000 likes on Facebook and no other band that I know even comes close to that number. That's pretty telling.
But linkin park isn't punk
@radical fob used to be pop punk, bmth were deathcore and metalcore which are fusion genre of extreme metal with hardcore punk, same goes for adtr
radical FOB's members were in a hardcore band with Tim McIlrath and FOB started as pop punk. ADTR is pop punk and metalcore, both legitimate punk subgenres and BMTH were metalcore too, so yeah they all are/were punk for at least a significant portion of their careers
Kushagra Sharma lmao facebook
@@no-zk3du ?????
Amazing analysis! Maybe Paramore for the next one? Or PVRIS? Love from France!
Thanks for watching! Def want to do paramore!
Yes paramore pleaaaaaaase! 🤓
@@ThePunkRockMBA yay
Please do Paramore! I want to see you review a female fronted band
Paramore? Are you serious?
It helps that these dudes can WRITE some killer songs too. Coming from the Chicago HC scene, all of their preceeding metalcore/hc bands were bangers. Racetraitor, Killtheslavemaster, and Arma Angelus fuckin' ripped. Bringing together all these songwriting/playing chops with Pete/Joe/Andy was huge. Great vid
Enjoy the vids, looks like you found a series people really bite on, congrats. Would love to see one about a modern “soundcloud” musician, music seems more brand and trend oriented to me than ever before.
Also, the band is talented like crazy, Joe is a great lead guitarist, andy's drum skills are fire, Pete's lyrics are amazing, and Patrick's vocal range and styles are the best i've ever heard, he can do anything
Pete is smart as hell
Key Factor
#1. I listened to their music on repeat.
I had that impression of Pete just from watching a few of their live shows. He's definitely the front man.. I just didn't know how deep that role went for him.
The thing that kept them in my playlist all these years was absolutely 100% Patrick's voice. I feel like they evolved with every album and I honestly feel like they are almost the VanHalen or Aerosmith of my generation in that people love to hate them. But when that opening bassline of "Runnin' With the Devil" starts, you know everyone feels that shit. Same goes for that opening drum part on "Dance Dance" I feel like if you play that or "sugar" or "TFTM" at pretty much any bar or party, the majority of people are gonna jam to that shit. Just think, at some point they will most likely be played on classic rock stations if radio is still a thing.
I'm a huge punk fan who works in data analytics. I've been going through your videos and really enjoy your critical analysis on FOB and the 90s skate punk scene. Your channel is awesome. I'd love to see your take on Green Day's career.
Green Day is next and i’m very stoked to have people like you watching! Help me find some good data sets to look at for this stuff lol
this is my new favorite yt channel.... golden nuggets for days... i'm literally binging on these vids
Thanks man!
blink-182 should be next.
I second this
I third fourth and fifth this
This
Yessss
PLEASE
Right amount of info without overload and to the point with recap of 00's radical
What band should I do next??
Could you please do three days grace?
Pierce The Veil?
Meshuggah, In Flames, Deftones, Korn, Mastodon, Periphery
Rise Against! :D
Architects
You should do a video on all of the Fueled By Ramen bands. And Pete’s old label Decaydance. I’m new to your channel and cannot get enough!
Pete Wentz to FOB is what Lars to Metallica. They might not be the best technical instrumentalists but theyre the businessmen who get their bands to sell.
They both also come from lucrative backgrounds. That certainly helps.
I just love the « fuck ego » teamwork spirit here. Any successful business is based on this. Projects are more important than people. Once you embrace this and put yourself aside, you DO become good at what you’re doing. They should teach that kind of project management in business schools.
I love fall out boy still to this day and I’m 42 years old! They just make good music!
The fact is they were good enough songwriters to blend the best elements of hard core, emo and pop into songle song on their early albums. Their first 2 are my favorite and I like em up through Infinity. Their past 3 haven't really done it for me, but that's subjective. Maybe do a How Did They Get So Big on AFI?
Ill never forget when I met those dudes! It was when they first started back in 02-03 I think.?? They were opening a show with Alister at a tiny bar that had a really small stage (The NorthStar bar in Philly) there was me and 2 other ppl that knew who they were, so after there set I went to there merch table n the guitar player Joe was working n I ended up shootin the shit w him, got his Email addy his personal MySpace profile!! He was really Down to earth n cool! I still have the paper where he wrote his Email on!!! Thx for another great video Finn! Keep up the great work!☺👍
Love this series, I might have said it before but this one is definitely my favorite so far. Keep it up Scottie.
Thanks man, appreciate the support!
Maybe we can just have a video for FBR graduates and label mates of FOB
I'm watching this 3 years later and I think Rock is on an up again and it's nice to see some of the old bands making great new content again. The new Alexisonfire album for example is exceptional
this is a very great video.
i enjoyed all of it. i feel like yea pete and patrick were extremely smart with everything.
you should do paramore
The Starting Line shoutout hurt my soul, I loooooved them :c
Not the biggest fan of this band but great video nonetheless, everything you said here is on point. Love this series! Would love to see an episode on Ghost!
Thanks for watching and yeah, Ghost would be a good one!
YOU ARE A PRO! I just discovered your channel and I've got to say, these bands stuck for a lot of reasons, and you nail each and EVERY one.
Thanks man!
Great video, I'm enjoying this series.
You should do Every Time I Die
Theyre on the list!
Yes please
Man, I have been a massive fucking fan of these guys since Take This to Your Grave. It’s so awesome to see bands you love get huge, especially when they have the talent to back their success. I’d love to see an MCR or The Used video at some point, too. Keep being awesome, my dude
You should do a video on either Brockhampton or Odd Future.
I think they serve as a strong example of taking the world by storm in a DIY manner and it would be awesome to dissect them.
Odd Future would be a really good one!
You couldn't have been more thorough here Finn. Very well researched. Great video!
Thanks man!
As much as I hate to admit it, they're what started getting me really into rock when I was nine, because before that all I listened to was an Elvis greatest hits CD. Yeah, I had my emo phase at nine, but without dressing like it or anything. Thanks to my sister for accidentally leaving her old From Under the Cork Tree CD in the basement years before
Never was a huge fall out boy fan but ive seen them live twice and it was amazing both times. Was a much bigger fan after that
I have to say, their cover of Michael Jackson's 'Beat It' is quite possibly one of my favorite covers of all time. I don't care what people think about pop covers, it's a great fucking song.
but theres literally nothing special about it right? Not even sure why it was necessarily, just a basic cover in a more rock style, I could barely tell a difference between the MJ version and cover back then
I was in an 80s cover band and we did a more FOB version of 'Beat It.' It killed every single time, everyone loved it.
That was a great cover. It will obviously never be as amazing as the King of Pop's but I thought it was a good cover.
Patrick Stump's incredible voice, Pete's lyrics which I still don't understand but seem very poetic deep and sometimes political... The songs had a lot of drama musically as well as lyrically and captured the imagination with something very unique. Same with my chemical romance, the killers, kings of leon... I miss bands! Mainstream music these days is mostly solo artists
I think I remember Motionless In White doing something very similar for their one of their first EP's transitioning into their first full length. When Love Met Destruction was put out on Tragic Hero to get the momentum going even though they were already signed to Fearless Records and then Creatures came out on Fearless as soon it seemed like they were going to be a good investment from gaining all of their fans off of the previous stuff. Good on Pete from Fall Out Boy for coming up with that sort of idea because it has clearly been influential and helped other bands.
On that note, maybe an episode on Motionless In White? They're kind of quiet right now because I think they're working on an album but it seems like they've gotten pretty huge over the last few years, especially in comparison to when I first saw them in 2010 on the Thrash and Burn Tour.
They def blew up! They’ve done a lot of the same things as FOB now that you mention it- look up how many co writers they have on their latest album for example (inc the very talented drew fulk and jeff dunne).
I remember seeing motionless in 2010 when they weren’t really big. Chris was at the merch table and he took a picture with me and told me he liked my red bow. I ended up having about a 15 min convo with him. And THAT is the reason I am a FAN FOR LIFE!
dude your videos are amazing. not even a huge punk rock enthusiast, but i've found such an interest getting to know these different bands through you. subscribed!
Thanks man!
Good analysis and I’m endlessly fascinated by FOB’s hardcore roots. Also loved Stump’s guest vocals on that Weekend Nachos track. But if you don’t think bringing on “hitmakers” to write your music and make it as broadly appealing as possible is not “selling out” I simply don’t know what is. I guess selling out has to do with intentions. If maintaining standards and DIY ethics has nothing to do with their career goals, then I guess they never betrayed anything. I personally think treating your band like a soda brand and letting executives make most the creative decisions so that they can maximize profits is sort of gross, especially if they were part of the hardcore scene and know what the other side of the argument is.
Right, it’s up to each of us imo: if they feel ok about co-writing then theyre staying true to themselves. If they got pressured into it (which i dont think is the case) thats something else.
The Punk Rock MBA
Fair enough, but that Ghostbusters collab with Missy Elliott...woof.
Unless it’s the original intention from the get go. If your plan from the first band meeting or practice was to be the biggest band on the planet, I’d argue it literally can’t be “selling out.”
You’d have to at the very least veer off the original path at some point, right? But this band has always been a pop group from the jump.
Fallout Boy has never been a " hardcore" pop punk band. Pete has never been interested in that. He's always been interested in making popular hit records and making the band as mainstream as possible. He's never been shy about that. Dance Dance and Thnks fr th Mmrs are clearly songs written to be beyond the pop punk niche of music.I mean Kim Kardashian was in the fucking music video and this was in 07 at the height of their emo punk careers.
I have a fun story about fall out boy. Right when they were first coming out I saw them at warped tour and really liked their music (I hadn’t heard of them before that) and a couple hours later I was walking the festival and saw they had a booth with a really small line of people getting autographs so my sister and I since we really liked them from what we saw went and bought the take this to your grave album and had them sign it. They were the nicest guys, so genuine in conversation and that made me like them and their music more so from that day on I started following them and watched them grow to as big as they are now. Since then we have gone to literally every single headlining tour, not missing one. And it all started because on top of having great music they were just so down to earth and so nice to a couple of teenage girls wearing simple plans shirts at a music festival.
I'd love to see one of these on Rise Against, Against Me! or Bad Religion
I still listen to Take this to your grave
Never gets old
You should do one on Architects
I'd say to put one out after the new album drops
@@racer24t I actually didn't know about that. Thanks man
Architects isn't that big... Yet
I have a memory of watching this video in the shower after shoveling snow in awful Kansas City snow the year the year it was released. I was emotionally at my lowest, my dad’s passing was mere months before, I was twelve and incredibly depressed, all these years later I’m a freshman in college just under three hours away from my moms house and I’m not even a fucking boy anymore. A lot can change in six years. If you’re reading this comment I want you to know that you’re loved, you matter, and you’re important. Don’t count yourself, you don’t know where you’ll go if you don’t try. Love you, love yourself, be yourself 💕💕
Also Stump's voice is operatic
I know I’m late to the party but you forgot to mention Patrick Stump’s voice is f*cking incredible and they have great songs.
i kind hope you talk about how joe is the key who tied the band... I mean.. If they story true... The one who introduce pete to patrick is joe... And like that's the key point...
oh and i agree wirh the self awareness thing... They know what people talking about them, joke bout them and they flip it back as somehow marketing campaigns...
They not just sell music, i think the min factor is they share the vision to sell their own dream as a band and inspire people... That's like what pete talking about on every speech on their concert. What patrick or joe or andy talking about when they feel it to talk on interview...
Wasnt there so couldnt tell ya. But everybody knew pete back then.
I love the way you express you opinions and insight about the music industry so coherently. Really inspires my own music journalism and way of forming opinions
blink would be a good one, but paramore has a lot of immediate success over the last decade
ima have one of these one day
I'd love to see Paramore, Gym Class Hero's and New Found glory videos!
Great video❣️ I 💖 FOB & just about everything they put out, Patrick's vocals & Pete's lyrics are pure magic. I still have a signed CD & need 2 go see them in concert (just as long as they don't have another MGK opening 4 them)🤦
Having a vision for a single or whole album is essential to it's success. If it means bringing a producer like Babyface who specializes in a specific trait u want in ur project then u have to jump.
Exactly
I know Finn has said these videos didn't perform very well and people weren't very interested in them, but I really enjoyed them and I wish he would bring them back. I always thought it was very interesting to get the "business" perspective of what enabled bands to become so popular
Do one on Avenged Sevenfold
I definitely will!
@@ThePunkRockMBA Thanks, youre doing an excellent job with your channel
Appreciate the support!
Thanks for talking about Fall Out Boy. I'm a huge fan of Fall Out Boy since 2008 from a song "Do You Know Who I Think I Am?"
Robbie Brewer one of my favorites too!
@@rhall89 yep
Do one for Ghost, Meshuggah, Machine Head or Papa Roach!
You totally blew my mind when you said Babyface produced Thnks Fr th Mmrs...and then I Wikipedia credits for the album and it turns out he produced two tracks! Never would have expected him to work with them, but super cool that he did.
In the beginning when you're naming off Viva La Bam and the Used, I think that was around the time Kelly Osbourne was dating Bert from the Used and he made an appearance on the Osbournes!
Yep! I mentioned that later in the video
The Punk Rock MBA I should watch the whole video before commenting haha, love the series and love the channel!
Hey Sarge, this series is amazing, great lore and extremely clear presentation, as always. You should make a place where we (or just me) can share thoughts for upcoming videos and discuss posted ones- Discord, forum, Reddit thread- something like that! Stoked for future content bro!
I have a facebook group! Link in the description
i discovered fall out boy in 2010, when i was 11 or 12. found a Take This To Your Grave CD at Goodwill and listened to the shit out of it for years. Then when i discovered that Pete and Andy were involved in the VSXE scene in the 90’s i was sold on FOB. They’re still one of my favorite bands and I have endless respect for those guys.
If you haven’t, check out the Racetraitor EP, it’s fucking SICK
i will definitely check it out!! also loved killtheslavemaster and birthright.
Yeah that KSM record is fucking great!
Folie a Deux and Infinity on High are some of my favorite pop rock albums of all time
long story short; thanks, pete 😜
I'm 30 yrs old and TTTYG is still one of my favorite albums.
Me too
Would be cool to see an episode about Green Day or Blink. Hell any 90’s-00’s SoCal Punk
Will def do both those bands!
On the inverse, the bands from that scene that should've been big: Jawbreaker, Samiam, and frickin ALL!
I hate when people say bands shouldn't work with producers... That's their job! The producers don't want to be in a band or be an artist on their own. They want to make music for others and they obviously have the amazing art gift of music/sound and know what it takes to put sound and words together to make something that sounds good. If it sounds good I'll listen to it. Period.
This week I watched a video about Fall Out Boy and one of the comments was about how much this person hates Pete for being selfish - which was why M A N I A is so bad. There were a lot of other comments of how bad this album is, but this one crushed me. I started crying bc I know how hard they worked to produce good songs. And it is different from everything that they've done before. But it doesn't mean it is bad.
I don't think Pete is selfish at all. He just knows what he has to do to reach success.
I know this is old but I absolutely love M A N I A. It’s honestly what an album by a grown up FOB should sound like. Everyone wants them to sound like they did 15 years ago but their in their 30s and 40s now! I’m in their age group and truly appreciate each album bc I pretty much grew with them.
Sunshine Riptide and Bishop’s Knife Trick are some of FOB’s best songs ever
Great video series. I would never listen to any song by a band like this or play anything even close, but it’s cool to dissect how they navigated this world only few know
Sticking with the more 'emo' theme, I'd be super interested in hearing how you think My Chemical Romance got so big. Also, great channel dude
Thanks, appreciate the support!
love this series. always thinking about stuff like this. thanks!
Thanks! And great name lol
I saw this video. And the guy in the 4th picture that popped up was my husband. I SPIT MY DRINK. Wasnt expecting to see my husband in a random video lmao
I was never really a fan but I saw them when I was going to see other artist... they always put on a pretty decent show at the time. Even as a non fan, you could appreciate the energy they brought to the stage, crowd, and show
This was the early and mid 2000s ... 2001... to like 2005-06
The real reason is they knew how to make a massive crossover hit. Sugar we're going down was literally on every radio station am musical channel from pop, rock, alternative, mtv, fuse, vh1. Even hip hop appeal because of the kanye an jay z cosign.
That song is arguably one of the greatest crossover hits of all time. Everything after was losing their core fanbase for pop mainstream sound an audience.