To join our discord community for $1 or to support my work/get early access to content, check out my patreon: www.patreon.com/c/gayextrad To listen to the audio only version on all major platforms, visit: intrinsicallyordered.com or search 'Intrinsically Ordered' wherever you listen
I realize how this sounds, but there is some comfort as a queer person to hear how messed up any and every organized religion can be; hot messes everywhere everyone
Can we just say how hard it is as a teenager to question to whom you’re attracted? And at the same time feeling called to be in ordained ministry (which the Church doesn’t allow for women)? It’s like “Shut two core aspects of yourself down”
A set of questions asked of people who left the Christian ( not just Catholic) faith, why? There were a variety of answers The chief one was Christians' views of gays The second was the conduct of Chistians
Thanks for another great interview. It is so amazing to hear the variety of stories we all have. The sheer level of crazy, however, is a common thread.
I was a sedevacantist who was very familiar with the world this guy was discussing. Everything he said was accurate, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I ended up with the CMRI, which didn't have as big a stick up its arse as Dolan/Cekada/Sanborn but was nevertheless just as cult-like and given over to right-wing identity politics and conspiracy theories. I was very familiar with both seminaries of Mater Dei and Most Holy Trinity. Of all these guys, Sanborn was the worst. This guy psychologically tortured and eliminated seminarians according to the whims of his narcissistic pathology or clerical politics. Even outstanding seminarians of moral probity and community approval (i. e., white and heteronormative) were not safe. He, and Pivarunas too at Mater Dei, demanded absolute and unquestioning obedience and adherence to their idiosyncratic whims and notions. The life of a sedevacantist seminarian is absolute hell, which explains why those who do end up being priests become the stereotypes they are. The whole thing is absolutely absurd, especially considering that it's all D. I. Y. - no way to bring these guys to accountability or scrutiny or verification because they have essentially made themselves absolute ecclesial authorities. I thank God everyday I left. I'm so happy with the liberal secularism I have adopted, which has given me more moral clarity than all the tomes of Aquinas or Liguori or whatever.
It's interesting to hear how a group that is so controlling that some might even call it a cult was able to form because it took a belief that already existed, and they simply said they were the better, or only true version of that belief. They didn't even need to come up with their own beliefs. The Sedevacantists took the Catholic faith, which is held by millions and millions around the world, yet the Sedevacantists were still able to form their own extremist group by simply stating "Yes, but we are the only TRUE Catholics." This tactic can lead to other extremist groups. For example, a political group that claims that while there are other right-wing activist groups, our group is the only one that is right-wing enough. Or that while many claim to believe in gender equality, only our one special group are the TRUE fighters for gender equality. Or instead of gender equality it could be upholding the constitution, or preserving the environment, or freedom of the press, or even healthy living, such as following a fitness program. Often times, the extremist group forms by simply taking a belief that already commonly exists among many people and then saying our much smaller group is the only group of TRUE followers of the belief because everyone else who claims to have the belief isn't as serious about it as we are.
yeah, I think that goes to the thesis that 'belief is really just belonging' - the same impetus (contrarianism, black and white thinking, need for belong, etc.) that bring someone into a cult is why they keep diving further into cults within cults
I honestly womder if 85% of trads have same sex thoughts with how they act towards same sex people. I'm Catholic and that doesnt mean I would treat someony any different if they are gay. Love your podcasts and videos!
Great episode, I wasn’t a trad cath but totally felt what he said about the inauthenticity in “agreeing” with the crazy conspiracies or terrible politics that often come with more trad thinking. Always a wonderful show with great insights.
I grew up in pre-vatican days and heard all of the messages that were supposedly coming from a vengeful, hateful and punishing god. This message was entirely grounded in fear. I'm not sure if I have any concept of a god left, but if I were to be able to pursue that possibility it could only be towards a totally loving god. A god that requires praise, if seen from human terms (remember we are supposedly made in his image) would be considered an egotistical, selfish one. For the bishop to suggest that to be loved by the god that you wanted to serve, you would have to deny your whole self, is simply the old message of hate and fear. I hope you have totally rejected that and are learning to love and accept yourself until that loving god reaches out to you!
I don't understand , why someone ,knowing that a Maine point in Scripture is ,no same gender coupling. Then wants to go there years of formation to be a priest. But still what to have his right to his private love life. When his love life now is his congregation , his self sacrifice of a love interest. I'm perplexed. I guess every one in on a learning jerney. Be in in religion or regular life..there obstacles in both..
I'm just not really quite sure why a proto gay man would even be interested in going to a seminary let alone a Sedevacantist one but then that's probably just me! 😁😄😄
@IntrinsicallyOrdered The odd thing is that I was raised a Catholic, my mother was a very strong Catholic, went to Catholic schools from age 9, I was even quite devout in my own way and yet somehow I don't believe that I ever really had the slightest real understanding of Christianity let alone Catholicism at all and so when I finally left the Catholic Church at the age of 21 over the Church's anti-homosexual position leaving the the Catholic Church and Christianity was a very obvious thing for me to do. It wasn't until I was about aged 50 that I developed a real faith in God but it was a whole lot kinder and nicer than the Christian God. Even when I was a devout Catholic I was never really that focused on Jesus but on God and that position has only strengthened as the years and decades since have passed.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
To join our discord community for $1 or to support my work/get early access to content, check out my patreon: www.patreon.com/c/gayextrad
To listen to the audio only version on all major platforms, visit: intrinsicallyordered.com or search 'Intrinsically Ordered' wherever you listen
I realize how this sounds, but there is some comfort as a queer person to hear how messed up any and every organized religion can be; hot messes everywhere everyone
yesss
Thanks for these conversations. People need to be heard. "Traditionalism" is often (maybe usually) a dark road.
Absolutely! Glad to have you watching
It is a joy to be notified of new videos from your channel. Thank you for your work!
Glad you enjoy it!
Can we just say how hard it is as a teenager to question to whom you’re attracted? And at the same time feeling called to be in ordained ministry (which the Church doesn’t allow for women)? It’s like “Shut two core aspects of yourself down”
A set of questions asked of people who left the Christian ( not just Catholic) faith, why?
There were a variety of answers
The chief one was Christians' views of gays
The second was the conduct of Chistians
Funny, some consider the entire sedevacantist movement a canonical impediment in itself.
Thanks for another great interview. It is so amazing to hear the variety of stories we all have. The sheer level of crazy, however, is a common thread.
Yes, the catholic sides to all these stories bring crazy but queer people truly are resilient
Yay a new video. We definitely need to rethink traditionalism in all our denominations when it comes to lgbtq people
Thanks for listening again!
@@IntrinsicallyOrderedthank you for the great videos. Please keep these important conversations going.
This was great! Thank you for sharing your story
thanks for listening!!
This makes me grateful for my Catholic parish.
Yes, there are so many wonderful parishes out there - not the crazy sides groups
I was a sedevacantist who was very familiar with the world this guy was discussing. Everything he said was accurate, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I ended up with the CMRI, which didn't have as big a stick up its arse as Dolan/Cekada/Sanborn but was nevertheless just as cult-like and given over to right-wing identity politics and conspiracy theories. I was very familiar with both seminaries of Mater Dei and Most Holy Trinity. Of all these guys, Sanborn was the worst. This guy psychologically tortured and eliminated seminarians according to the whims of his narcissistic pathology or clerical politics. Even outstanding seminarians of moral probity and community approval (i. e., white and heteronormative) were not safe. He, and Pivarunas too at Mater Dei, demanded absolute and unquestioning obedience and adherence to their idiosyncratic whims and notions. The life of a sedevacantist seminarian is absolute hell, which explains why those who do end up being priests become the stereotypes they are. The whole thing is absolutely absurd, especially considering that it's all D. I. Y. - no way to bring these guys to accountability or scrutiny or verification because they have essentially made themselves absolute ecclesial authorities.
I thank God everyday I left. I'm so happy with the liberal secularism I have adopted, which has given me more moral clarity than all the tomes of Aquinas or Liguori or whatever.
There is no doubting that Bishop Dolan was a good man, but there is something that makes me think something similar was going on in him...
Impressed that you guys can pronounce that term. 😅
Thanks for a really interesting interview. He’s knowledgeable beyond his years.
😂😂😂
It's interesting to hear how a group that is so controlling that some might even call it a cult was able to form because it took a belief that already existed, and they simply said they were the better, or only true version of that belief. They didn't even need to come up with their own beliefs. The Sedevacantists took the Catholic faith, which is held by millions and millions around the world, yet the Sedevacantists were still able to form their own extremist group by simply stating "Yes, but we are the only TRUE Catholics." This tactic can lead to other extremist groups. For example, a political group that claims that while there are other right-wing activist groups, our group is the only one that is right-wing enough. Or that while many claim to believe in gender equality, only our one special group are the TRUE fighters for gender equality. Or instead of gender equality it could be upholding the constitution, or preserving the environment, or freedom of the press, or even healthy living, such as following a fitness program. Often times, the extremist group forms by simply taking a belief that already commonly exists among many people and then saying our much smaller group is the only group of TRUE followers of the belief because everyone else who claims to have the belief isn't as serious about it as we are.
yeah, I think that goes to the thesis that 'belief is really just belonging' - the same impetus (contrarianism, black and white thinking, need for belong, etc.) that bring someone into a cult is why they keep diving further into cults within cults
I honestly womder if 85% of trads have same sex thoughts with how they act towards same sex people. I'm Catholic and that doesnt mean I would treat someony any different if they are gay. Love your podcasts and videos!
112%
Great episode, I wasn’t a trad cath but totally felt what he said about the inauthenticity in “agreeing” with the crazy conspiracies or terrible politics that often come with more trad thinking. Always a wonderful show with great insights.
Ikr?! the conspiracy stuff is overwhelming - thanks for listening!
@@IntrinsicallyOrdered No higher learning, don't think for yourself, cults are basically all the same
I grew up in pre-vatican days and heard all of the messages that were supposedly coming from a vengeful, hateful and punishing god. This message was entirely grounded in fear. I'm not sure if I have any concept of a god left, but if I were to be able to pursue that possibility it could only be towards a totally loving god. A god that requires praise, if seen from human terms (remember we are supposedly made in his image) would be considered an egotistical, selfish one. For the bishop to suggest that to be loved by the god that you wanted to serve, you would have to deny your whole self, is simply the old message of hate and fear. I hope you have totally rejected that and are learning to love and accept yourself until that loving god reaches out to you!
I don't understand , why someone ,knowing that a Maine point in Scripture is ,no same gender coupling. Then wants to go there years of formation to be a priest. But still what to have his right to his private love life. When his love life now is his congregation , his self sacrifice of a love interest. I'm perplexed. I guess every one in on a learning jerney. Be in in religion or regular life..there obstacles in both..
Religion is not love. It’s the opposite
exaaaactly
You look good without the hat!
Anger outburts and gossip in the religious circles
Is there a subject and a verb in your comment?
I'm just not really quite sure why a proto gay man would even be interested in going to a seminary let alone a Sedevacantist one but then that's probably just me! 😁😄😄
it doesn't make sense from the outside, but there's a ton of reasons closeted men go into the Catholic Church
@IntrinsicallyOrdered The odd thing is that I was raised a Catholic, my mother was a very strong Catholic, went to Catholic schools from age 9, I was even quite devout in my own way and yet somehow I don't believe that I ever really had the slightest real understanding of Christianity let alone Catholicism at all and so when I finally left the Catholic Church at the age of 21 over the Church's anti-homosexual position leaving the the Catholic Church and Christianity was a very obvious thing for me to do. It wasn't until I was about aged 50 that I developed a real faith in God but it was a whole lot kinder and nicer than the Christian God. Even when I was a devout Catholic I was never really that focused on Jesus but on God and that position has only strengthened as the years and decades since have passed.