I watched this live and I was on the edge of my seat. One of the craziest series in a long time. Congrats to the winner. Now I'm going to rewatch it with Tastosis. GL HF all!
I wouldn't say that at all. He faced a murderer's row of zerg killers. JYJ, Rush, Mini? Seriously? The guy took out all the anti-zerg killers available. And to be fair he did beat hero this season 2-1 in zvz. @@utarian7
Timestamps (spoiler free as possible. 7 timestamps posted regardless of outcome) Tasteless and Artosis fund English translations out of their own pockets, I am not associated with either of them. Pregame Interview: 8:45 Tastosis commentary begins: 20:46 Game 1: 32:07 Game 2: 1:00:35 Game 3: 1:48:23 Game 4: 2:21:55 Game 5: 2:37:18 Game 6: 3:12:20 Game 7: 3:19:31
so youre saying that tastless and artosis didnt use the $10K from their patreon to fun the translation? did they pay for licensing of afreecatv or something?
@@PSNTheChaz So your line of thinking is money they earn from their Patreon doesn't belong to them somehow? Do you use the word "donate" when you pay a streaming service and they give you content to watch in return? God forbid they use money they earn to give back to the community so that even people who don't "donate" can watch for free. You're a clown.
These games are incredible. Every single one of them felt so damn close. It just gets to show you that both of these players are the best of their races at the moment.
What a series! Great finals with absolute banger games. Excellent cast as usual by Tastosis. Great to have these interviews translated as well. Watching ASL (english) in this format is just a blast. Can't wait for S17 :D
2:09:40 zerg transferring workers from top left (main) to natural so he doesnt mine out at the end, this is adjusting for protoss losing main early game it pays off on the last push
i love the roasting between artosis and tasteless like the "tasteless rally point" comment, i kinda missed how brutal you guys used to be to each other
One thing I learned this ASL, you must relentlessly harrass the drones in lategame ZvP. Trying to knock down entire bases is so slow and inefficient, you cant only rely on that. If you get big drone kills you can start attacking because he has to use so much larva to replace drones.
Also its so hard and knife edge to attack bases. Goes slightly wrong and you lose whole army but fail to commit to the bust and all the sudden zerg is up 2 bases
Winning player is just better in long 'macro' games then the other player. The winning player even got massively behind early on, and still managed to come back to an advantage and win in the long game. There can be no arguments over who deserved to win this more
Yeah SK really made the final incredible to watch, especially with his comebacks in game 3 and 5. Most of the games were long intensive macro games 30m+, there isn't deny that both players really played with their best there.
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco with good macro player behind it.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@memph1ston He only tried it on game 2 really because it's a Robo tech but in other games he didn't do it. You know what killed mini? He went Goons every time without Shuttle/Reaver support while most of the map in the map pool have ramps, narrow access or bridges. He did Shuttle/Reaver in games 2 and 5, but Zerg got its Hive tech early in especially in game 5 while being late with it like 20 minutes in. Those 2 games are the most winnable for mini but he fumbles it.
@@abunja you are right. Reaver is the necessary counter for Protoss to hive tech. I was watching Jaedong’s analysis (fortunately I’m Korean so can understand) and in the 3rd game at the end where SK pushed across the bridges he actually said all Mini needed here was reavers and he would likely hold and win the game. It’s a huge blunder against such strong hive tech usage not to mix in reavers (low gas where the other units you really need is templar high gas) They are essential against swarm.
My 3rd favorite vs my 4th favorite to win out of the final 4 but still a big fan of the winner and i'm glad he won. Long live ASL. Thank you guys for your english casting.
that dark swarm over the wall followed by single lurker drop into 100 cannon island expansion must have been the coolest thing i've seen in this game one of the best series ever
FYI, all the pros commentating on game 3/5 pretty much thought Mini was 90:10 or 99:1 and that SoulKey should have just GG'd out earlier to preserve his mental state due to risk of it becoming reverse sweep if it got to SoulKey's head Some people thought this series was example of imbalance in ZvP but this series couldn't be farthest from it honestly... It's not like soulkey won due to some opener advantage from say, unscouted hydra bust or spire and all. He grinded and dragged game out through razor thin margins to lategame when it was all but lost when he was impossibly behind Fantastic series and it was way closer than scoreline ever suggested Mini honestly should have been able to bring it to 3:3 but the pressure from earlier games probably was too much from being behind 2:0
They just thought the Zerg instantly wins with Defiler, while not knowing that Zerg in transition requires a good chunk of good army and a healthy expo. Before Hive tech, they only got Lings, Hydra, Lurker and Muta which melts with Protoss midgame tech units like Reavers and Templars. If they decide to tech up while not having a quality army, they'll die in any Protoss attack. If they went Hive tech without having good expo base count, they can't keep the production up and will make less quality units instead. That's apparent in games 2 and 5, SK is only at mass Zergling at one time. If mini pushed that Sairs to kill Overlords more in game 2, he could've won because he can't keep just rebuilding Overlords in 2 mining bases while his Hydra count is slowly dwindling. If he just went to Shuttle/Reaver early in game 5 instead of Goons, the game will be very much different in his favor.
Every single round, every single match, this tournament was absolutely incredible, all the way up through this JAWBREAKING final. So freaking happy to see the result. I know I keep saying "Man this might be the craziest year yet" to myself every season, but it's true! ASL keeps on delivering, no hype needed. Glad to see the greatest competitive game of all time is still sitting on the throne after 25 years.
Is there somewhere you can get the Carbot plushes that they've had in the studio? I really want one of those lings but haven't been able to find that particular design any time I've tried looking. [spoilers] What a tremendous victory for our winner here. His side of the top 8 bracket was absolutely disgusting, and getting the trophy after all that was nothing if not well-deserved. Strategically this set was something else, so much misdirection, backed up by the absurd tenacity to claw out of nearly every situation. With all the upsets in RO24 I was really hoping to see either SoulKey or her0 would be able to finally take it, and here we are. Just fantastic. Let's see how season 17 ends up being even better.
hello tastosis, you're really doing it really well! Just one thing: When the videos are uploaded, please don't spoil them in the thumbnail. Because I often don't watch the videos straight away due to time constraints. but when these are uploaded, it will be shown to me on RUclips and then I already know who wins :( Otherwise, stay as you are! you are the best commenters :)
A truly close 4-1. I have a feeling that taking mini to ultra late game was Soulkey's strategy. If you notice, most of Mini's games end in the early to mid game. Mini just seemed lost at some points during these games. Roaming around the center of map with his giant army. Looking lost as to how to engage and where to engage. Soulkey just seemed to have a clear attrition strategy. A small aspect was the mind games which soulkey won in at least the first 2 games clearly. Well played to them both. Mini did play well but was truly outclassed.
Thanks for the spoilers, I guess. Soulkey's strategy to bait mini go to inefficient trades worked. Also the fact that mini didn't even considered to expand when he's ahead or even deny especially that darning game 5 (he could've taken all the ramp expos and left the top right for Zerg where it's vulnerable because of 2 openings). And it seems that he didn't want to create separate armies roaming in the map, and always goes one mass army going back and forth like a headless chicken. Also, game 2 is closer than you might think and I believe it's more favored to mini than SK. SK drop attempt didn't resulted much. It's 3 base P vs. 4 base Z, and SK doesn't have a Hive tech yet and banked all of its resources to Lurkers (1:15:40) for a Lurker spread. Mini could've denied any attempt for SK to expand and kept storming the base at 3 to deny mining and fight a battle of attrition from there. But instead, he tried to bust that Lurker spread and decided to back off when he realized that it's not a favorable trade.
Can you guys add empty stuff to the end of the video to make ot always look like a full series. b.c when ur the near the end of the video and you look at the score it auto spoils the result
It's been said a thousand times, but it's really lame how the length of the video spoils the match. In best of 5/7 series, 9 times of 10 you know who is going to win after the second match.
*SPOILERS* it's a pleasure to watch Soulkey's strategy. He never let mini attack for free. Each time Mini commits he gets hit back twice as hard, which is really similar to chess gambit. It's amazing to see strategy rather than speed/mechanics being the winning factor.
Looks like Soulkey is the 1st one to acknowledge how defilers are actually even more broken in zvp than in zvt. If you think about it, P doesn't really have a way to kill them, while T at least has irradiate. Under the swarm, the only units that work would be zealots, but in late game they get outclassed so badly by lings that they're not even viable, and if P catches a plague, then shields always take full damage and it's just laughable how quickly p units evaporate even against very few lings. The only things that work are templars and reavers, but you're forced to storm even against very few units, so in the end they're really unlikely to be cost effective. In this series Mini went mass archons, probably to minimize plague damage, but it didn't really work. The only option I guess would have been a massive use of shuttle + reavers + templars but again that's a very expensive unit composition that's hard to pull off if P is down to essentially only 2 mining bases. In the end I really feel like defilers were what allowed Soulkey to climb his way up to a comeback in both g3 and g5, that at some point almost looked hopeless for him.
It is true Zealots really lose value in lategame ZvP. But Shield dont take full damage if Protoss upgrades shields armor even buildings profit from it. It is true that Protoss cant do anything vs plague, but the army is still super strong. Dark archon feedback counters defiller. And mass Storms counters everything Zerg has similar to Irradiate in ZvT. Further the big thing you forget is the fact that Protoss needs less exposes in lategame and profits massievely from its Spell casters in Ultra late game vs Zerg. So once Protoss has 2/5 of the bases he just needs to defend to win. And generally the defender has an advantage specially vs units like Lukers ...
The main counter to dark swarm is actually psi storm since the aoe matches well and it's pretty easy to blanket dark swarms with storm. It's just not noticeable because storm counters everything, from every race, in starcraft.
@@majormononoke8958 That's not what they meant by "full damage." If you upgrade shields, they still take full damage -3. "Full damage" in this context means that shields take the same amount of damage regardless of which unit they're on: small, medium, or large. It doesn't take reduced damage from explosive weapons the way small unit health does, even if it's on a small unit. This is why marines, which have 40 hp, take 4 hits from a dragoon to kill, despite the dragoon's attack doing 20 damage, because it's 20 explosive damage which is then halved vs small units. If the marine had protoss shields, the shields would take 20 damage per hit, and then the marine's health would take 10 damage per hit once it's gone - the shields take "full damage."
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@majormononoke8958 it is true feedback is a clean answer to defilers but again, dark archon is an extremely expensive unit for its value 175 minerals and a 250 gas), so it has the same problem of not being cost effective, expecially compared to defilers that with consume have basically infinite energy while the DK doesn't. Also the DK is an extremely clumsy unit, it's huge, hard to move around and easy to trap.
1:20:25 - Minor point, but Tasteless refers to the "crucifix area"; it should be "cross area". The cross is that shape, while the crucifix is that shape with Jesus on it.
@@ZoeCalico That's a great call, thanks for that! It's at least close to what I was looking for. They should probably allow for donos also though in the future. Again, thanks mate!
Artosis and Tasteless have amazing chemistry. Wish I could watch these games with their commentating more. I found them initially from the jaedong vs stork 3 series.
Got to say, Tastless has really come along as a technical caster for BW. He has always been great at the banter, but i love his insight for P matchups these days.
Been watching the whole season a bit behind and during me watching ro8 this popped up in my feed and spoiled it for me. Why write names in video name? :( watched on sc2links btw, guess I need to start doing that in incognito mode
Can we just add some time at the end of every video to get to 5h for the next season of ASL? Seeing that it's 3:1 and there are just 20 min left of the video spoils the results EVERY TIME.
@@HasekuraIsuna Touché, however it's not like these videos will be trending. Only people who know of ASL and watch ASL look for them, so I'm not sure if this is really a problem.
Heyyyy u guys took out the weird audience-on-stage moment where they made fun of mini (between games 2 and 3). It had the buddist and the bible guy. Why did you take that out?
Spoiler Soulkey overcame a lot of hurdles to get here, his matches gainst Rush and specially JyJ were so tough, and this series was no slouch, it may have been a 4:1 but Mini fought tooth and nails every single game, like artosis said, this is the closest one sided series ive ever seen
It's just because they're bashful and modest, or displaying modesty out of a sense of propriety. They are, after all, being shown to everyone on the huge screen.
As a casual viewer, the defiler seems like such a broken yet. A unit that basically can nullify all projectile units and most races having nothing to really counter that considering it's always comboed with the lurker which is technically a projectile but acts as a melee attack. A spell that makes a unit one shotted after a few seconds, and technically infinite energy with the consume spell. Not sure what any race is supposed to do against this as it seems that Teran only has firebats and Protoss has zealots and reavers, while zerg has cracklings, ultras, and lurkers that counter almost all units.
Final Game Spoilers: Mini absolutely knew about the base in the lower left corner. He had a zealot there which had to be killed before SoulKey could expand there and he sends a unit up the ramp a little later. The blue square also definitely hops down to that base for a second as well.
Havent played SC1 in about 20 years, still tune in to finals of ASL when cast by tastosis :D I love the longevity of this game... Hopefully Microsoft does it justice
He can't because he's scared that it'll just die, 250/150 vs. 25/75 isn't a good trade. It only works if he himself created chaos and diversion but not if he's on the receiving end.
unfortunate but somehow not too shocking, I think with players of similar skill the race that won has a significant advantage as long as they aren't too far behind going past mid-game, and the other player wasn't quite able to create a situation where they could leverage an earlier advantage into a decisive finisher honestly, it's amazing the 2nd place player even made it this far, they showed some really great games, micro, macro, and ideas, and I hope they aren't too upset over what happened. they still did great and are an inspiration imo, especially when you look at how their race does in general at the top level
2:10:12 looks like he just transferred the workers to his 4th perhaps a bit prematurely, perhaps to replace a few he lost to a single zealot runby at his 4th earlier, no idea tbh.
I'm very happy for the winner, even though I cheered for the runner-up. By the way....... wtf with the end of the audio!? XD Thank you very much for the awesome work!! See you in the next ASL ...... bye bye! Tastosis out!!
![[ENG] ASL Season14 Ro.4 Match1 Royal vs Soulkey (Tastosis)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gYFKTINvULA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG] ASL Season14 Ro.4 Match1 Royal vs Soulkey (Tastosis)](/img/tr.png)
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S17 Ro.16 Group B (Tastosis)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dgd3A0dmw9E/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG] ASL Season17 Ro.4 Match2 SnOw vs SoulKey (Tastosis)](/img/1.gif)
Thumbs up to block spoilers! Tastosis for life! ❤
Thanks
Well done
I gave you a thumbs down for being annoying
Gg
Asl super hero
What an ending. Music, Korean, Korean translation, Tasteless and Artosis, all at once. Fabulous
One of the best ASL seasons ever. Thank you Arty/Tasteless.
I watched this live and I was on the edge of my seat. One of the craziest series in a long time. Congrats to the winner. Now I'm going to rewatch it with Tastosis. GL HF all!
I must say it was one of the best finals. Effort vs Flash is my second favourite.
Damn that’s awesome you got to see it live!
@@HappyChillmore I think I wasn't clear, I should have clarified, I saw it in real time as it was happening, not live in person. My bad.
Well won and well deserved victory by the victor of the no spoiler.
Not that well deserved. Soulkey lucked out hard by having no ZvZs (in which he's total shit) in a zerg dominant ASL.
I wouldn't say that at all. He faced a murderer's row of zerg killers. JYJ, Rush, Mini? Seriously? The guy took out all the anti-zerg killers available. And to be fair he did beat hero this season 2-1 in zvz. @@utarian7
dw, video length manages to spoil it, anyway
@@utarian7he basically advanced from a zerg heavy group and beat great zergs but okk, talking like mini didnt just loose in his “best” matchup😂
@@utarian7 soulkey had a massive level up. Just watch last ASLs Quarterfinal against JyJ compared to this ones.
Game 3 is crazy. So much grit and never give up! Wow
Timestamps (spoiler free as possible. 7 timestamps posted regardless of outcome)
Tasteless and Artosis fund English translations out of their own pockets, I am not associated with either of them.
Pregame Interview: 8:45
Tastosis commentary begins: 20:46
Game 1: 32:07
Game 2: 1:00:35
Game 3: 1:48:23
Game 4: 2:21:55
Game 5: 2:37:18
Game 6: 3:12:20
Game 7: 3:19:31
so youre saying that tastless and artosis didnt use the $10K from their patreon to fun the translation? did they pay for licensing of afreecatv or something?
if by their pockets you mean money donated by fans on patreon, then yes they're paying out of their own pockets.
hahaha@@PSNTheChaz
@@PSNTheChaz So your line of thinking is money they earn from their Patreon doesn't belong to them somehow? Do you use the word "donate" when you pay a streaming service and they give you content to watch in return? God forbid they use money they earn to give back to the community so that even people who don't "donate" can watch for free. You're a clown.
@@PSNTheChaz Fair enough, but they are full-time Starcraft streamers so in some sense their fans pockets *are* their own pockets.
These games are incredible. Every single one of them felt so damn close. It just gets to show you that both of these players are the best of their races at the moment.
Yes insanely close and at least 2 felt like they were going to go the other way
@@Sc9cvsd agreed. Great set of matches.
What a series! Great finals with absolute banger games. Excellent cast as usual by Tastosis. Great to have these interviews translated as well. Watching ASL (english) in this format is just a blast. Can't wait for S17 :D
Finally!!! Thank you Tastosis!! Cant wait for next ASL.
2:09:40 zerg transferring workers from top left (main) to natural so he doesnt mine out at the end, this is adjusting for protoss losing main early game
it pays off on the last push
I'm actually speechless. I expected something entirely opposite. I'm not saying I'm disappointed, I'm just shocked I was so wrong!
I was shocked as well, I thought the score would be reversed. Very good games by two very strong players!
i love the roasting between artosis and tasteless like the "tasteless rally point" comment, i kinda missed how brutal you guys used to be to each other
Effort and soulkey hace different aproaches to ZvP. It is nice to see the hive tech in the match up. Good cast and good series
what a final. amazing games literary each and every one of them!
That last game was amazing
Felt frustrating to me.
Well played, but frustrating.
One thing I learned this ASL, you must relentlessly harrass the drones in lategame ZvP. Trying to knock down entire bases is so slow and inefficient, you cant only rely on that. If you get big drone kills you can start attacking because he has to use so much larva to replace drones.
Also its so hard and knife edge to attack bases. Goes slightly wrong and you lose whole army but fail to commit to the bust and all the sudden zerg is up 2 bases
Yeah I kept wondering, where are the storm drops?
@@abstractdaddy1384 Apparently he is allergic to those.
3 and a half hours, this gonna be good
Zerg looks so unfair when Soulkey's playing it.
I think the best word to describe this series is "Relentless"
What an epic game 2. How often do you see fully upgraded and maxed armies from both sides?
So happy to see my favorite player of all time win. Amazing :) thank you Tastosis!
And that's another season of ASL in the books.
Thank you for all the hard work you guys do.
Winning player is just better in long 'macro' games then the other player. The winning player even got massively behind early on, and still managed to come back to an advantage and win in the long game. There can be no arguments over who deserved to win this more
Yeah SK really made the final incredible to watch, especially with his comebacks in game 3 and 5. Most of the games were long intensive macro games 30m+, there isn't deny that both players really played with their best there.
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco with good macro player behind it.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@szmike I think Mini tried, but the presence of Scourge that SK had was simply dominating.
@@memph1ston He only tried it on game 2 really because it's a Robo tech but in other games he didn't do it. You know what killed mini? He went Goons every time without Shuttle/Reaver support while most of the map in the map pool have ramps, narrow access or bridges. He did Shuttle/Reaver in games 2 and 5, but Zerg got its Hive tech early in especially in game 5 while being late with it like 20 minutes in. Those 2 games are the most winnable for mini but he fumbles it.
@@abunja you are right. Reaver is the necessary counter for Protoss to hive tech. I was watching Jaedong’s analysis (fortunately I’m Korean so can understand) and in the 3rd game at the end where SK pushed across the bridges he actually said all Mini needed here was reavers and he would likely hold and win the game. It’s a huge blunder against such strong hive tech usage not to mix in reavers (low gas where the other units you really need is templar high gas) They are essential against swarm.
My 3rd favorite vs my 4th favorite to win out of the final 4 but still a big fan of the winner and i'm glad he won. Long live ASL. Thank you guys for your english casting.
that dark swarm over the wall followed by single lurker drop into 100 cannon island expansion must have been the coolest thing i've seen in this game
one of the best series ever
Really good job with the audio translation in the interviews, audio levels are perfect
Gg ASL and Tastosis, another perfect season! How do you do it? 😲
thank you for the commentary, you guys are amaizing!!!
FYI, all the pros commentating on game 3/5 pretty much thought Mini was 90:10 or 99:1 and that SoulKey should have just GG'd out earlier to preserve his mental state due to risk of it becoming reverse sweep if it got to SoulKey's head
Some people thought this series was example of imbalance in ZvP but this series couldn't be farthest from it honestly... It's not like soulkey won due to some opener advantage from say, unscouted hydra bust or spire and all. He grinded and dragged game out through razor thin margins to lategame when it was all but lost when he was impossibly behind
Fantastic series and it was way closer than scoreline ever suggested
Mini honestly should have been able to bring it to 3:3 but the pressure from earlier games probably was too much from being behind 2:0
They just thought the Zerg instantly wins with Defiler, while not knowing that Zerg in transition requires a good chunk of good army and a healthy expo. Before Hive tech, they only got Lings, Hydra, Lurker and Muta which melts with Protoss midgame tech units like Reavers and Templars. If they decide to tech up while not having a quality army, they'll die in any Protoss attack. If they went Hive tech without having good expo base count, they can't keep the production up and will make less quality units instead. That's apparent in games 2 and 5, SK is only at mass Zergling at one time. If mini pushed that Sairs to kill Overlords more in game 2, he could've won because he can't keep just rebuilding Overlords in 2 mining bases while his Hydra count is slowly dwindling. If he just went to Shuttle/Reaver early in game 5 instead of Goons, the game will be very much different in his favor.
honestly one of my favorite series of all time.
Every single round, every single match, this tournament was absolutely incredible, all the way up through this JAWBREAKING final. So freaking happy to see the result. I know I keep saying "Man this might be the craziest year yet" to myself every season, but it's true! ASL keeps on delivering, no hype needed. Glad to see the greatest competitive game of all time is still sitting on the throne after 25 years.
Wow.. amazing finals. The skill level just keeps increasing year after year, i almost cant believe it.
So happy for the winner ❤
Is there somewhere you can get the Carbot plushes that they've had in the studio? I really want one of those lings but haven't been able to find that particular design any time I've tried looking.
[spoilers]
What a tremendous victory for our winner here. His side of the top 8 bracket was absolutely disgusting, and getting the trophy after all that was nothing if not well-deserved. Strategically this set was something else, so much misdirection, backed up by the absurd tenacity to claw out of nearly every situation. With all the upsets in RO24 I was really hoping to see either SoulKey or her0 would be able to finally take it, and here we are. Just fantastic. Let's see how season 17 ends up being even better.
YAYYYYYYYY !!!
This was a pleasure to watch, awesome match, 10x Tastosis !
Great cast. Great Games. Wish there were more :-)
Iam sorry Artosis but i didnt catch this or not, but did you just compare Mins wall to a pair of yoga pants?
hello tastosis,
you're really doing it really well!
Just one thing:
When the videos are uploaded, please don't spoil them in the thumbnail. Because I often don't watch the videos straight away due to time constraints. but when these are uploaded, it will be shown to me on RUclips and then I already know who wins :(
Otherwise, stay as you are! you are the best commenters :)
Was waiting for this!
Спасибо. Потрясающий финал. Победитель заслужил этот кубок
Could someone tell me the background music at 2:36:50?
A truly close 4-1. I have a feeling that taking mini to ultra late game was Soulkey's strategy. If you notice, most of Mini's games end in the early to mid game. Mini just seemed lost at some points during these games. Roaming around the center of map with his giant army. Looking lost as to how to engage and where to engage. Soulkey just seemed to have a clear attrition strategy.
A small aspect was the mind games which soulkey won in at least the first 2 games clearly.
Well played to them both. Mini did play well but was truly outclassed.
You should put something in the front to prevent spoilers for fellow gamers.
But agreed, insane game with both players playing well.
Thanks for the spoilers, I guess. Soulkey's strategy to bait mini go to inefficient trades worked. Also the fact that mini didn't even considered to expand when he's ahead or even deny especially that darning game 5 (he could've taken all the ramp expos and left the top right for Zerg where it's vulnerable because of 2 openings). And it seems that he didn't want to create separate armies roaming in the map, and always goes one mass army going back and forth like a headless chicken. Also, game 2 is closer than you might think and I believe it's more favored to mini than SK. SK drop attempt didn't resulted much. It's 3 base P vs. 4 base Z, and SK doesn't have a Hive tech yet and banked all of its resources to Lurkers (1:15:40) for a Lurker spread. Mini could've denied any attempt for SK to expand and kept storming the base at 3 to deny mining and fight a battle of attrition from there. But instead, he tried to bust that Lurker spread and decided to back off when he realized that it's not a favorable trade.
@@gkdlswmI don't get why people would read comments if they don't want spoilers.
Kudos, well deserved victory. Can't wait for the next ASL season. May ASL live forever.
That was one of the best if not the best ASL finals ever despite the score
Omg so quick. Thank you tastosis :3
Can you guys add empty stuff to the end of the video to make ot always look like a full series. b.c when ur the near the end of the video and you look at the score it auto spoils the result
Can you please add some dead time to the end of videos for spoilers? The result was pretty evident well before the end of the series. Thank you.
1:16:40 Shouldn't this scrab damage the shilds? Or it did and I don't see it?
Scarb don’t do friendly fire damage
57:30 did they call Firebathero?!
music playing at 5:10 onwards?
It's been said a thousand times, but it's really lame how the length of the video spoils the match. In best of 5/7 series, 9 times of 10 you know who is going to win after the second match.
great translation! really top notch work
Much respect to all players. Extra respect to Artosis and Tasteless... still doing it big and still doing it the best
*SPOILERS*
it's a pleasure to watch Soulkey's strategy. He never let mini attack for free. Each time Mini commits he gets hit back twice as hard, which is really similar to chess gambit. It's amazing to see strategy rather than speed/mechanics being the winning factor.
Yes, he manages his APM quite well. Rarely lightning fast (for a Korean pro I mean), but somehow just what's needed in the moment.
What about those nails at 2:19:55 ?
Looks like Soulkey is the 1st one to acknowledge how defilers are actually even more broken in zvp than in zvt.
If you think about it, P doesn't really have a way to kill them, while T at least has irradiate. Under the swarm, the only units that work would be zealots, but in late game they get outclassed so badly by lings that they're not even viable, and if P catches a plague, then shields always take full damage and it's just laughable how quickly p units evaporate even against very few lings.
The only things that work are templars and reavers, but you're forced to storm even against very few units, so in the end they're really unlikely to be cost effective.
In this series Mini went mass archons, probably to minimize plague damage, but it didn't really work. The only option I guess would have been a massive use of shuttle + reavers + templars but again that's a very expensive unit composition that's hard to pull off if P is down to essentially only 2 mining bases.
In the end I really feel like defilers were what allowed Soulkey to climb his way up to a comeback in both g3 and g5, that at some point almost looked hopeless for him.
It is true Zealots really lose value in lategame ZvP. But Shield dont take full damage if Protoss upgrades shields armor even buildings profit from it. It is true that Protoss cant do anything vs plague, but the army is still super strong. Dark archon feedback counters defiller. And mass Storms counters everything Zerg has similar to Irradiate in ZvT. Further the big thing you forget is the fact that Protoss needs less exposes in lategame and profits massievely from its Spell casters in Ultra late game vs Zerg. So once Protoss has 2/5 of the bases he just needs to defend to win. And generally the defender has an advantage specially vs units like Lukers ...
The main counter to dark swarm is actually psi storm since the aoe matches well and it's pretty easy to blanket dark swarms with storm. It's just not noticeable because storm counters everything, from every race, in starcraft.
@@majormononoke8958 That's not what they meant by "full damage." If you upgrade shields, they still take full damage -3. "Full damage" in this context means that shields take the same amount of damage regardless of which unit they're on: small, medium, or large. It doesn't take reduced damage from explosive weapons the way small unit health does, even if it's on a small unit.
This is why marines, which have 40 hp, take 4 hits from a dragoon to kill, despite the dragoon's attack doing 20 damage, because it's 20 explosive damage which is then halved vs small units. If the marine had protoss shields, the shields would take 20 damage per hit, and then the marine's health would take 10 damage per hit once it's gone - the shields take "full damage."
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@majormononoke8958 it is true feedback is a clean answer to defilers but again, dark archon is an extremely expensive unit for its value 175 minerals and a 250 gas), so it has the same problem of not being cost effective, expecially compared to defilers that with consume have basically infinite energy while the DK doesn't. Also the DK is an extremely clumsy unit, it's huge, hard to move around and easy to trap.
20:30 wtf is that guy on the left side? :D
1:20:25 - Minor point, but Tasteless refers to the "crucifix area"; it should be "cross area". The cross is that shape, while the crucifix is that shape with Jesus on it.
This might be the best ASL finals of all time
This season was an amazing journey! Thank you everyone and LONG LIVE STARCRAFT!
Have they stopped 3rd/4th play off?
The overlapping voices at the end was a little rough. Excellent finals and a great end to a top tier season of ASL.
Is there a way to support the Tastosis ASL english cast through one-time donations also?
I'd think the best way to do that would be to do a Patreon subscription and cancel the auto-renew right away, but I know that's not what you're asking
@@ZoeCalico That's a great call, thanks for that! It's at least close to what I was looking for. They should probably allow for donos also though in the future. Again, thanks mate!
Artosis and Tasteless have amazing chemistry. Wish I could watch these games with their commentating more. I found them initially from the jaedong vs stork 3 series.
Got to say, Tastless has really come along as a technical caster for BW. He has always been great at the banter, but i love his insight for P matchups these days.
Are there any active clans looking for new members on sc bw?
MORE ASL!! Long Live Brood War!
2:21:15 Artosis reads subtle body language like an expert. Should have been a detective :)
He plays terran, of course.
Soulkey é um mestre na defesa! E o Mini um gênio atacando! Final fantástica e muito merecido o campeão
Kkk não imaginava encontrar um comentário em português, mas realmente Soulkey é brabo demais merecia ter ganhado uma ASL faz tempo
Soulkey fue muy incisivo en sus decisiones de ataques. A Mini le faltó agresividad
Been watching the whole season a bit behind and during me watching ro8 this popped up in my feed and spoiled it for me. Why write names in video name? :( watched on sc2links btw, guess I need to start doing that in incognito mode
Why is the thumb nail photo from like 10 years ago
Can we just add some time at the end of every video to get to 5h for the next season of ASL? Seeing that it's 3:1 and there are just 20 min left of the video spoils the results EVERY TIME.
Search in youtube for "No spoilers for ASL" there some guy that made a video how to avoid it while watching the video.
It's kills the video for the allmighty algorithm, so that is not happening.
If you are watching on PC, get a browser extension to hide video length.
@@HasekuraIsuna Touché, however it's not like these videos will be trending. Only people who know of ASL and watch ASL look for them, so I'm not sure if this is really a problem.
Absolutely awesome games.
Is there a 3rd place match?
Heyyyy u guys took out the weird audience-on-stage moment where they made fun of mini (between games 2 and 3). It had the buddist and the bible guy. Why did you take that out?
Spoiler
Soulkey overcame a lot of hurdles to get here, his matches gainst Rush and specially JyJ were so tough, and this series was no slouch, it may have been a 4:1 but Mini fought tooth and nails every single game, like artosis said, this is the closest one sided series ive ever seen
Sad and happy, I wanted Mini to win, but it's always nice to see new champions
Mini threw SOOOO hard. He should have annihilated southwest base but waffled.
was this recent?
Can anyone shed some light on why it's embarrassing to write a sign? Many people are hiding behind their signs. 1:47:30
It's just because they're bashful and modest, or displaying modesty out of a sense of propriety. They are, after all, being shown to everyone on the huge screen.
Why carriers are not a thing in ZvP? Great games as always btw, despite me not knowing much lol
Hydra+dark swarm
As a casual viewer, the defiler seems like such a broken yet. A unit that basically can nullify all projectile units and most races having nothing to really counter that considering it's always comboed with the lurker which is technically a projectile but acts as a melee attack. A spell that makes a unit one shotted after a few seconds, and technically infinite energy with the consume spell. Not sure what any race is supposed to do against this as it seems that Teran only has firebats and Protoss has zealots and reavers, while zerg has cracklings, ultras, and lurkers that counter almost all units.
Insane stamina by the winner. What brutal grinding games
I am the first - i love you tasteless and artosis - please take care of your health to live longer
Also some audio overlap at the end
Compared to the rest of the seasons matches this was rather underwhelming. Congrats to the winner though - highly deserved.
Dude did you not watch game 2?
Completely deserved... i did like the games vs Rush better, they were intersting and intense!
Final Game Spoilers:
Mini absolutely knew about the base in the lower left corner. He had a zealot there which had to be killed before SoulKey could expand there and he sends a unit up the ramp a little later. The blue square also definitely hops down to that base for a second as well.
No third place match ?
don`t think they are doing them anymore. Sad state of affairs
@@kalmitev8271 yea you're right, could't look at Liquipedia to avoid spoilers. I wonder how they decide the order of picks for the next Ro16.
@@alcimir5 Both 3rd and 4th gets the same prize. Likely they'll go with the scoring of how many matches they've won.
Havent played SC1 in about 20 years, still tune in to finals of ASL when cast by tastosis :D I love the longevity of this game... Hopefully Microsoft does it justice
never give up! after this, soulkey gains my all respect for ever
So many great games, but whyyy why no storm drops.
He can't because he's scared that it'll just die, 250/150 vs. 25/75 isn't a good trade. It only works if he himself created chaos and diversion but not if he's on the receiving end.
I can't believe Soulkey took this season from my boy Rush but if you can win against him you are insane so I celebrate the new ASL 16 Champion!
That series was so good
Drone-pocalypse of Game 3 - 02:09:35 (moved to 4th and centre of map) - so Tasteless caught it within less than a minute :D
unfortunate but somehow not too shocking, I think with players of similar skill the race that won has a significant advantage as long as they aren't too far behind going past mid-game, and the other player wasn't quite able to create a situation where they could leverage an earlier advantage into a decisive finisher
honestly, it's amazing the 2nd place player even made it this far, they showed some really great games, micro, macro, and ideas, and I hope they aren't too upset over what happened. they still did great and are an inspiration imo, especially when you look at how their race does in general at the top level
Awesome series finale. So happy for the winner.
finally, cannot wait! :)
2:10:12 looks like he just transferred the workers to his 4th perhaps a bit prematurely, perhaps to replace a few he lost to a single zealot runby at his 4th earlier, no idea tbh.
Here Oct 28 2024 just before SoulKey wins his third ASL/SSL
I'm very happy for the winner, even though I cheered for the runner-up.
By the way....... wtf with the end of the audio!? XD
Thank you very much for the awesome work!!
See you in the next ASL ...... bye bye! Tastosis out!!
Yes, this was an insane round up. Last season's runner up against the player coming from round 24 loser's match to the finals. Wow, extreme variation.