I watched this live and I was on the edge of my seat. One of the craziest series in a long time. Congrats to the winner. Now I'm going to rewatch it with Tastosis. GL HF all!
I wouldn't say that at all. He faced a murderer's row of zerg killers. JYJ, Rush, Mini? Seriously? The guy took out all the anti-zerg killers available. And to be fair he did beat hero this season 2-1 in zvz. @@utarian7
What a series! Great finals with absolute banger games. Excellent cast as usual by Tastosis. Great to have these interviews translated as well. Watching ASL (english) in this format is just a blast. Can't wait for S17 :D
Timestamps (spoiler free as possible. 7 timestamps posted regardless of outcome) Tasteless and Artosis fund English translations out of their own pockets, I am not associated with either of them. Pregame Interview: 8:45 Tastosis commentary begins: 20:46 Game 1: 32:07 Game 2: 1:00:35 Game 3: 1:48:23 Game 4: 2:21:55 Game 5: 2:37:18 Game 6: 3:12:20 Game 7: 3:19:31
so youre saying that tastless and artosis didnt use the $10K from their patreon to fun the translation? did they pay for licensing of afreecatv or something?
@@PSNTheChaz So your line of thinking is money they earn from their Patreon doesn't belong to them somehow? Do you use the word "donate" when you pay a streaming service and they give you content to watch in return? God forbid they use money they earn to give back to the community so that even people who don't "donate" can watch for free. You're a clown.
These games are incredible. Every single one of them felt so damn close. It just gets to show you that both of these players are the best of their races at the moment.
i love the roasting between artosis and tasteless like the "tasteless rally point" comment, i kinda missed how brutal you guys used to be to each other
2:09:40 zerg transferring workers from top left (main) to natural so he doesnt mine out at the end, this is adjusting for protoss losing main early game it pays off on the last push
Winning player is just better in long 'macro' games then the other player. The winning player even got massively behind early on, and still managed to come back to an advantage and win in the long game. There can be no arguments over who deserved to win this more
Yeah SK really made the final incredible to watch, especially with his comebacks in game 3 and 5. Most of the games were long intensive macro games 30m+, there isn't deny that both players really played with their best there.
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco with good macro player behind it.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@memph1ston He only tried it on game 2 really because it's a Robo tech but in other games he didn't do it. You know what killed mini? He went Goons every time without Shuttle/Reaver support while most of the map in the map pool have ramps, narrow access or bridges. He did Shuttle/Reaver in games 2 and 5, but Zerg got its Hive tech early in especially in game 5 while being late with it like 20 minutes in. Those 2 games are the most winnable for mini but he fumbles it.
@@abunja you are right. Reaver is the necessary counter for Protoss to hive tech. I was watching Jaedong’s analysis (fortunately I’m Korean so can understand) and in the 3rd game at the end where SK pushed across the bridges he actually said all Mini needed here was reavers and he would likely hold and win the game. It’s a huge blunder against such strong hive tech usage not to mix in reavers (low gas where the other units you really need is templar high gas) They are essential against swarm.
One thing I learned this ASL, you must relentlessly harrass the drones in lategame ZvP. Trying to knock down entire bases is so slow and inefficient, you cant only rely on that. If you get big drone kills you can start attacking because he has to use so much larva to replace drones.
Also its so hard and knife edge to attack bases. Goes slightly wrong and you lose whole army but fail to commit to the bust and all the sudden zerg is up 2 bases
My 3rd favorite vs my 4th favorite to win out of the final 4 but still a big fan of the winner and i'm glad he won. Long live ASL. Thank you guys for your english casting.
that dark swarm over the wall followed by single lurker drop into 100 cannon island expansion must have been the coolest thing i've seen in this game one of the best series ever
Every single round, every single match, this tournament was absolutely incredible, all the way up through this JAWBREAKING final. So freaking happy to see the result. I know I keep saying "Man this might be the craziest year yet" to myself every season, but it's true! ASL keeps on delivering, no hype needed. Glad to see the greatest competitive game of all time is still sitting on the throne after 25 years.
hello tastosis, you're really doing it really well! Just one thing: When the videos are uploaded, please don't spoil them in the thumbnail. Because I often don't watch the videos straight away due to time constraints. but when these are uploaded, it will be shown to me on RUclips and then I already know who wins :( Otherwise, stay as you are! you are the best commenters :)
Is there somewhere you can get the Carbot plushes that they've had in the studio? I really want one of those lings but haven't been able to find that particular design any time I've tried looking. [spoilers] What a tremendous victory for our winner here. His side of the top 8 bracket was absolutely disgusting, and getting the trophy after all that was nothing if not well-deserved. Strategically this set was something else, so much misdirection, backed up by the absurd tenacity to claw out of nearly every situation. With all the upsets in RO24 I was really hoping to see either SoulKey or her0 would be able to finally take it, and here we are. Just fantastic. Let's see how season 17 ends up being even better.
FYI, all the pros commentating on game 3/5 pretty much thought Mini was 90:10 or 99:1 and that SoulKey should have just GG'd out earlier to preserve his mental state due to risk of it becoming reverse sweep if it got to SoulKey's head Some people thought this series was example of imbalance in ZvP but this series couldn't be farthest from it honestly... It's not like soulkey won due to some opener advantage from say, unscouted hydra bust or spire and all. He grinded and dragged game out through razor thin margins to lategame when it was all but lost when he was impossibly behind Fantastic series and it was way closer than scoreline ever suggested Mini honestly should have been able to bring it to 3:3 but the pressure from earlier games probably was too much from being behind 2:0
They just thought the Zerg instantly wins with Defiler, while not knowing that Zerg in transition requires a good chunk of good army and a healthy expo. Before Hive tech, they only got Lings, Hydra, Lurker and Muta which melts with Protoss midgame tech units like Reavers and Templars. If they decide to tech up while not having a quality army, they'll die in any Protoss attack. If they went Hive tech without having good expo base count, they can't keep the production up and will make less quality units instead. That's apparent in games 2 and 5, SK is only at mass Zergling at one time. If mini pushed that Sairs to kill Overlords more in game 2, he could've won because he can't keep just rebuilding Overlords in 2 mining bases while his Hydra count is slowly dwindling. If he just went to Shuttle/Reaver early in game 5 instead of Goons, the game will be very much different in his favor.
Fuck are you smoking? 3 Base Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra basically stops everything. Zerglings and Hydra's are incredible vs protoss. They wreck dragoon, all air, hell even shitty zealots. There are no answers. Too cheap, too strong. Storms and Archons are thrash.
Looks like Soulkey is the 1st one to acknowledge how defilers are actually even more broken in zvp than in zvt. If you think about it, P doesn't really have a way to kill them, while T at least has irradiate. Under the swarm, the only units that work would be zealots, but in late game they get outclassed so badly by lings that they're not even viable, and if P catches a plague, then shields always take full damage and it's just laughable how quickly p units evaporate even against very few lings. The only things that work are templars and reavers, but you're forced to storm even against very few units, so in the end they're really unlikely to be cost effective. In this series Mini went mass archons, probably to minimize plague damage, but it didn't really work. The only option I guess would have been a massive use of shuttle + reavers + templars but again that's a very expensive unit composition that's hard to pull off if P is down to essentially only 2 mining bases. In the end I really feel like defilers were what allowed Soulkey to climb his way up to a comeback in both g3 and g5, that at some point almost looked hopeless for him.
It is true Zealots really lose value in lategame ZvP. But Shield dont take full damage if Protoss upgrades shields armor even buildings profit from it. It is true that Protoss cant do anything vs plague, but the army is still super strong. Dark archon feedback counters defiller. And mass Storms counters everything Zerg has similar to Irradiate in ZvT. Further the big thing you forget is the fact that Protoss needs less exposes in lategame and profits massievely from its Spell casters in Ultra late game vs Zerg. So once Protoss has 2/5 of the bases he just needs to defend to win. And generally the defender has an advantage specially vs units like Lukers ...
The main counter to dark swarm is actually psi storm since the aoe matches well and it's pretty easy to blanket dark swarms with storm. It's just not noticeable because storm counters everything, from every race, in starcraft.
@@majormononoke8958 That's not what they meant by "full damage." If you upgrade shields, they still take full damage -3. "Full damage" in this context means that shields take the same amount of damage regardless of which unit they're on: small, medium, or large. It doesn't take reduced damage from explosive weapons the way small unit health does, even if it's on a small unit. This is why marines, which have 40 hp, take 4 hits from a dragoon to kill, despite the dragoon's attack doing 20 damage, because it's 20 explosive damage which is then halved vs small units. If the marine had protoss shields, the shields would take 20 damage per hit, and then the marine's health would take 10 damage per hit once it's gone - the shields take "full damage."
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@majormononoke8958 it is true feedback is a clean answer to defilers but again, dark archon is an extremely expensive unit for its value 175 minerals and a 250 gas), so it has the same problem of not being cost effective, expecially compared to defilers that with consume have basically infinite energy while the DK doesn't. Also the DK is an extremely clumsy unit, it's huge, hard to move around and easy to trap.
Got to say, Tastless has really come along as a technical caster for BW. He has always been great at the banter, but i love his insight for P matchups these days.
A truly close 4-1. I have a feeling that taking mini to ultra late game was Soulkey's strategy. If you notice, most of Mini's games end in the early to mid game. Mini just seemed lost at some points during these games. Roaming around the center of map with his giant army. Looking lost as to how to engage and where to engage. Soulkey just seemed to have a clear attrition strategy. A small aspect was the mind games which soulkey won in at least the first 2 games clearly. Well played to them both. Mini did play well but was truly outclassed.
Thanks for the spoilers, I guess. Soulkey's strategy to bait mini go to inefficient trades worked. Also the fact that mini didn't even considered to expand when he's ahead or even deny especially that darning game 5 (he could've taken all the ramp expos and left the top right for Zerg where it's vulnerable because of 2 openings). And it seems that he didn't want to create separate armies roaming in the map, and always goes one mass army going back and forth like a headless chicken. Also, game 2 is closer than you might think and I believe it's more favored to mini than SK. SK drop attempt didn't resulted much. It's 3 base P vs. 4 base Z, and SK doesn't have a Hive tech yet and banked all of its resources to Lurkers (1:15:40) for a Lurker spread. Mini could've denied any attempt for SK to expand and kept storming the base at 3 to deny mining and fight a battle of attrition from there. But instead, he tried to bust that Lurker spread and decided to back off when he realized that it's not a favorable trade.
Artosis and Tasteless have amazing chemistry. Wish I could watch these games with their commentating more. I found them initially from the jaedong vs stork 3 series.
*SPOILERS* it's a pleasure to watch Soulkey's strategy. He never let mini attack for free. Each time Mini commits he gets hit back twice as hard, which is really similar to chess gambit. It's amazing to see strategy rather than speed/mechanics being the winning factor.
Can you guys add empty stuff to the end of the video to make ot always look like a full series. b.c when ur the near the end of the video and you look at the score it auto spoils the result
It's been said a thousand times, but it's really lame how the length of the video spoils the match. In best of 5/7 series, 9 times of 10 you know who is going to win after the second match.
Can we just add some time at the end of every video to get to 5h for the next season of ASL? Seeing that it's 3:1 and there are just 20 min left of the video spoils the results EVERY TIME.
@@HasekuraIsuna Touché, however it's not like these videos will be trending. Only people who know of ASL and watch ASL look for them, so I'm not sure if this is really a problem.
I'm very happy for the winner, even though I cheered for the runner-up. By the way....... wtf with the end of the audio!? XD Thank you very much for the awesome work!! See you in the next ASL ...... bye bye! Tastosis out!!
As a casual viewer, the defiler seems like such a broken yet. A unit that basically can nullify all projectile units and most races having nothing to really counter that considering it's always comboed with the lurker which is technically a projectile but acts as a melee attack. A spell that makes a unit one shotted after a few seconds, and technically infinite energy with the consume spell. Not sure what any race is supposed to do against this as it seems that Teran only has firebats and Protoss has zealots and reavers, while zerg has cracklings, ultras, and lurkers that counter almost all units.
Havent played SC1 in about 20 years, still tune in to finals of ASL when cast by tastosis :D I love the longevity of this game... Hopefully Microsoft does it justice
1:20:25 - Minor point, but Tasteless refers to the "crucifix area"; it should be "cross area". The cross is that shape, while the crucifix is that shape with Jesus on it.
unfortunate but somehow not too shocking, I think with players of similar skill the race that won has a significant advantage as long as they aren't too far behind going past mid-game, and the other player wasn't quite able to create a situation where they could leverage an earlier advantage into a decisive finisher honestly, it's amazing the 2nd place player even made it this far, they showed some really great games, micro, macro, and ideas, and I hope they aren't too upset over what happened. they still did great and are an inspiration imo, especially when you look at how their race does in general at the top level
TLDR to those still thinking Protoss is OP - go win anything as protoss. Problem is both Terran and Zerg can set up turtle/defensive positions where even with 50 supply up as protoss you can't break. Yet protoss got hard time doing it and it does translate a lot into losses for P. Same with early aggression speed lings or hydra busts - top P's lose to that all the time after so many years - because it works so damn well. I'm not saying game is imba, but frankly after so many years people should stfu how it is easy to play P - especially at high level. Best excuse is that T/Z players are either just better or "working harder". Good joke. Still enjoyable games , thanks for upload.
@@BenjaminGlatt doubt , "me" doesn't play anymore for many many years. I used to play a lot back then . Nice try though. Still you didn't use any argument at all to justify this "observation" "you" had there. P's dying all the time to zergling rushes and hydra busts - top tier P's ... not "me" , "them" pros.
Spoiler Soulkey overcame a lot of hurdles to get here, his matches gainst Rush and specially JyJ were so tough, and this series was no slouch, it may have been a 4:1 but Mini fought tooth and nails every single game, like artosis said, this is the closest one sided series ive ever seen
Final Game Spoilers: Mini absolutely knew about the base in the lower left corner. He had a zealot there which had to be killed before SoulKey could expand there and he sends a unit up the ramp a little later. The blue square also definitely hops down to that base for a second as well.
Not gonna lie, I love you guys and have watched for years, but I'm sad that we, the scene (that you helped build and maintain, thank you guys again) are still slow to get these out. Yes, this is an improvement but I've still already watched it. I just couldn't wait (mini and soulkey hell yes). I know you guys live across the world from one another but I mean c'mon, you guys are doing very well, you should be able to wake up at 2am like the Tekken casters who do it for KFC and McDonald's coupons. I only say this because it feels like I know you guys, and it feels like I know you would agree. The finals should be live cast next time? No? Maybe a short delay if Afreeca complains)
I meant so say I'm sad that we have to wait still because you're always days late on the upload. It wasn't so bad when other talent wasn't beating you to the punch. I can't NOT click if they upload, y'know?
You could not click. I don’t. TBH releasing first is just a race to the bottom in terms of quality. Tastetosis should not play that game. As long as they release within a day or two, I’m happy.
The only thing you can request for is to have Afreeca hire Tastosis for the English simulcast if you want them got it out fast or even watch it live if you're able to catch it. The upload schedule in itself depends always on Afreeca, and Tastosis is only able to cast the video after the game has ended, not to mention they still add dubs for the commentary that adds to the total time it'll take to get out.
@@Zee_lots I dunno.. I won't plug the competition but I think the others quality is just as good, might be a little more hardcore analysis but I do enjoy it. Usually I can wait but this finals was too hype.
Biggest surprise for me is that I really expected more cheese and off-color builds from Mini. Felt like he was playing, if not exactly standard, pretty vanilla for most games.
Heyyyy u guys took out the weird audience-on-stage moment where they made fun of mini (between games 2 and 3). It had the buddist and the bible guy. Why did you take that out?
Have a question for those playing regularly on high level about game 1. Why does Mini despite the hefty price doesn't research the disruption web. It will cost 500/400 so 5-6 Dragoons of a price. With it I can easily see how he could have cleared all the Overlods clumped over Hydras with no risk and can make offensives much easier at any of the high ground bases.
Basically it's not guaranteed investment. You have to keep corsairs alive, they need to get energy... But that is not that great problem. Main problem is micromanagement. Even 4-6 high templars with readily usable spell 75 energy storm is very hard to micro correctly and HTs are always spread in the army. Corsairs stack and it is complicated to use distruption web correctly, not multicast and at the same time attack with corsairs and not fall foul of hydras that dodge the distruption web altogether. Sum: It would be useful when microed perfectly but chance of it being bad is too large, especially given lack of training.
@@JGD_CZE Thanks a lot for the explanation! I still think that it would be extremely good in terms of circumstances (in game 1). But you share insight because players don't practice it (and Mini's decision making may gloss over it without even considering) and how it could not lead to the decisive outcome I was thinking. Still those 6 Corsairs in that particular game were already with high energy and were alive for enough time and paid for themselves - could potentially allow him avenue for entering at base 2 or 3 much easily as Hydras were defending against Zealots and buildings were slowing down the whole attack buying time for response, while Web would allow the Zealots to support the attack and just walk over the 'wall' in much shorter time (but the time needed for the research would slow it down on its own).
@@dtibvgz8441 When I used to play PvZ, Corsair Reaver Dweb was my favourite strat to use against Zerg on Neo Requiem (La Campanella is Neo Neo Requiem). But It was... It was terran level APM microfest and in the end even with dozens and dozens of dead overlord, hundreds of dead hydras and scores of sunken/spore colonies killed... Zerg side of "just survive and macroup" was still too strong. IMO best Protoss is with heavy use of spells and micro heavy units (Reavers, Carriers)... BUT. Simple gatewayman toss is like 10% less effective and 50% less difficult. Look up Bonyth PvT games. He uses Disruption web very often but it have middling usefulness. And Siege tanks are much more stationary targets than hydras. It is very cool but just imagine every DWEB is Psi Storm and you will realise that that micro is much superior. In PvZ it should kinda be more usefull but most of the time Corsairs lose their value as the time goes on. And should you have loads of corsairs, you probably did not see what 3 devourers do with 12+ corsair fleets. Its not pretty...
@@dtibvgz8441 I think it's a good idea, but not against hydra, or any army. They will just walk out immediately. Dweb is better to help bust a base. Soulkey had so many sunkens and lurkers defending, and Dweb will shut that down. The only thing is, if u use a lotta zealot/archon, they will run up and potentially get under the web too, disabling them. So you need to use goon/reaver or maybe drop the melee units in the base at the right spots to atk the defenses from outside the web.
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S10 Ro.16 Day2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Za-zo-6QdHY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S10 Ro.16 Day2](/img/tr.png)
![[ENG] ASL Season16 Ro.4 Match1 Rush vs SoulKey (Tastosis)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sIALkFIzjHw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S10 Ro.16 Day4](/img/1.gif)
Thumbs up to block spoilers! Tastosis for life! ❤
Thanks
Well done
I gave you a thumbs down for being annoying
Gg
Asl super hero
I watched this live and I was on the edge of my seat. One of the craziest series in a long time. Congrats to the winner. Now I'm going to rewatch it with Tastosis. GL HF all!
I must say it was one of the best finals. Effort vs Flash is my second favourite.
Damn that’s awesome you got to see it live!
@@HappyChillmore I think I wasn't clear, I should have clarified, I saw it in real time as it was happening, not live in person. My bad.
What an ending. Music, Korean, Korean translation, Tasteless and Artosis, all at once. Fabulous
One of the best ASL seasons ever. Thank you Arty/Tasteless.
Well won and well deserved victory by the victor of the no spoiler.
Not that well deserved. Soulkey lucked out hard by having no ZvZs (in which he's total shit) in a zerg dominant ASL.
I wouldn't say that at all. He faced a murderer's row of zerg killers. JYJ, Rush, Mini? Seriously? The guy took out all the anti-zerg killers available. And to be fair he did beat hero this season 2-1 in zvz. @@utarian7
dw, video length manages to spoil it, anyway
@@utarian7he basically advanced from a zerg heavy group and beat great zergs but okk, talking like mini didnt just loose in his “best” matchup😂
@@utarian7 soulkey had a massive level up. Just watch last ASLs Quarterfinal against JyJ compared to this ones.
What a series! Great finals with absolute banger games. Excellent cast as usual by Tastosis. Great to have these interviews translated as well. Watching ASL (english) in this format is just a blast. Can't wait for S17 :D
Timestamps (spoiler free as possible. 7 timestamps posted regardless of outcome)
Tasteless and Artosis fund English translations out of their own pockets, I am not associated with either of them.
Pregame Interview: 8:45
Tastosis commentary begins: 20:46
Game 1: 32:07
Game 2: 1:00:35
Game 3: 1:48:23
Game 4: 2:21:55
Game 5: 2:37:18
Game 6: 3:12:20
Game 7: 3:19:31
so youre saying that tastless and artosis didnt use the $10K from their patreon to fun the translation? did they pay for licensing of afreecatv or something?
if by their pockets you mean money donated by fans on patreon, then yes they're paying out of their own pockets.
hahaha@@PSNTheChaz
@@PSNTheChaz So your line of thinking is money they earn from their Patreon doesn't belong to them somehow? Do you use the word "donate" when you pay a streaming service and they give you content to watch in return? God forbid they use money they earn to give back to the community so that even people who don't "donate" can watch for free. You're a clown.
@@PSNTheChaz Fair enough, but they are full-time Starcraft streamers so in some sense their fans pockets *are* their own pockets.
These games are incredible. Every single one of them felt so damn close. It just gets to show you that both of these players are the best of their races at the moment.
Yes insanely close and at least 2 felt like they were going to go the other way
@@Sc9cvsd agreed. Great set of matches.
Game 3 is crazy. So much grit and never give up! Wow
Finally!!! Thank you Tastosis!! Cant wait for next ASL.
I'm actually speechless. I expected something entirely opposite. I'm not saying I'm disappointed, I'm just shocked I was so wrong!
I was shocked as well, I thought the score would be reversed. Very good games by two very strong players!
i love the roasting between artosis and tasteless like the "tasteless rally point" comment, i kinda missed how brutal you guys used to be to each other
2:09:40 zerg transferring workers from top left (main) to natural so he doesnt mine out at the end, this is adjusting for protoss losing main early game
it pays off on the last push
And that's another season of ASL in the books.
Thank you for all the hard work you guys do.
Effort and soulkey hace different aproaches to ZvP. It is nice to see the hive tech in the match up. Good cast and good series
Really good job with the audio translation in the interviews, audio levels are perfect
Winning player is just better in long 'macro' games then the other player. The winning player even got massively behind early on, and still managed to come back to an advantage and win in the long game. There can be no arguments over who deserved to win this more
Yeah SK really made the final incredible to watch, especially with his comebacks in game 3 and 5. Most of the games were long intensive macro games 30m+, there isn't deny that both players really played with their best there.
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco with good macro player behind it.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@szmike I think Mini tried, but the presence of Scourge that SK had was simply dominating.
@@memph1ston He only tried it on game 2 really because it's a Robo tech but in other games he didn't do it. You know what killed mini? He went Goons every time without Shuttle/Reaver support while most of the map in the map pool have ramps, narrow access or bridges. He did Shuttle/Reaver in games 2 and 5, but Zerg got its Hive tech early in especially in game 5 while being late with it like 20 minutes in. Those 2 games are the most winnable for mini but he fumbles it.
@@abunja you are right. Reaver is the necessary counter for Protoss to hive tech. I was watching Jaedong’s analysis (fortunately I’m Korean so can understand) and in the 3rd game at the end where SK pushed across the bridges he actually said all Mini needed here was reavers and he would likely hold and win the game. It’s a huge blunder against such strong hive tech usage not to mix in reavers (low gas where the other units you really need is templar high gas) They are essential against swarm.
One thing I learned this ASL, you must relentlessly harrass the drones in lategame ZvP. Trying to knock down entire bases is so slow and inefficient, you cant only rely on that. If you get big drone kills you can start attacking because he has to use so much larva to replace drones.
Also its so hard and knife edge to attack bases. Goes slightly wrong and you lose whole army but fail to commit to the bust and all the sudden zerg is up 2 bases
Yeah I kept wondering, where are the storm drops?
@@abstractdaddy1384 Apparently he is allergic to those.
So happy to see my favorite player of all time win. Amazing :) thank you Tastosis!
My 3rd favorite vs my 4th favorite to win out of the final 4 but still a big fan of the winner and i'm glad he won. Long live ASL. Thank you guys for your english casting.
that dark swarm over the wall followed by single lurker drop into 100 cannon island expansion must have been the coolest thing i've seen in this game
one of the best series ever
3 and a half hours, this gonna be good
what a final. amazing games literary each and every one of them!
Every single round, every single match, this tournament was absolutely incredible, all the way up through this JAWBREAKING final. So freaking happy to see the result. I know I keep saying "Man this might be the craziest year yet" to myself every season, but it's true! ASL keeps on delivering, no hype needed. Glad to see the greatest competitive game of all time is still sitting on the throne after 25 years.
I think the best word to describe this series is "Relentless"
hello tastosis,
you're really doing it really well!
Just one thing:
When the videos are uploaded, please don't spoil them in the thumbnail. Because I often don't watch the videos straight away due to time constraints. but when these are uploaded, it will be shown to me on RUclips and then I already know who wins :(
Otherwise, stay as you are! you are the best commenters :)
What an epic game 2. How often do you see fully upgraded and maxed armies from both sides?
thank you for the commentary, you guys are amaizing!!!
That last game was amazing
Felt frustrating to me.
Well played, but frustrating.
Zerg looks so unfair when Soulkey's playing it.
honestly one of my favorite series of all time.
Wow.. amazing finals. The skill level just keeps increasing year after year, i almost cant believe it.
Kudos, well deserved victory. Can't wait for the next ASL season. May ASL live forever.
Is there somewhere you can get the Carbot plushes that they've had in the studio? I really want one of those lings but haven't been able to find that particular design any time I've tried looking.
[spoilers]
What a tremendous victory for our winner here. His side of the top 8 bracket was absolutely disgusting, and getting the trophy after all that was nothing if not well-deserved. Strategically this set was something else, so much misdirection, backed up by the absurd tenacity to claw out of nearly every situation. With all the upsets in RO24 I was really hoping to see either SoulKey or her0 would be able to finally take it, and here we are. Just fantastic. Let's see how season 17 ends up being even better.
FYI, all the pros commentating on game 3/5 pretty much thought Mini was 90:10 or 99:1 and that SoulKey should have just GG'd out earlier to preserve his mental state due to risk of it becoming reverse sweep if it got to SoulKey's head
Some people thought this series was example of imbalance in ZvP but this series couldn't be farthest from it honestly... It's not like soulkey won due to some opener advantage from say, unscouted hydra bust or spire and all. He grinded and dragged game out through razor thin margins to lategame when it was all but lost when he was impossibly behind
Fantastic series and it was way closer than scoreline ever suggested
Mini honestly should have been able to bring it to 3:3 but the pressure from earlier games probably was too much from being behind 2:0
They just thought the Zerg instantly wins with Defiler, while not knowing that Zerg in transition requires a good chunk of good army and a healthy expo. Before Hive tech, they only got Lings, Hydra, Lurker and Muta which melts with Protoss midgame tech units like Reavers and Templars. If they decide to tech up while not having a quality army, they'll die in any Protoss attack. If they went Hive tech without having good expo base count, they can't keep the production up and will make less quality units instead. That's apparent in games 2 and 5, SK is only at mass Zergling at one time. If mini pushed that Sairs to kill Overlords more in game 2, he could've won because he can't keep just rebuilding Overlords in 2 mining bases while his Hydra count is slowly dwindling. If he just went to Shuttle/Reaver early in game 5 instead of Goons, the game will be very much different in his favor.
Fuck are you smoking? 3 Base Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra basically stops everything. Zerglings and Hydra's are incredible vs protoss. They wreck dragoon, all air, hell even shitty zealots. There are no answers. Too cheap, too strong. Storms and Archons are thrash.
YAYYYYYYYY !!!
This was a pleasure to watch, awesome match, 10x Tastosis !
Gg ASL and Tastosis, another perfect season! How do you do it? 😲
Was waiting for this!
Спасибо. Потрясающий финал. Победитель заслужил этот кубок
So happy for the winner ❤
Looks like Soulkey is the 1st one to acknowledge how defilers are actually even more broken in zvp than in zvt.
If you think about it, P doesn't really have a way to kill them, while T at least has irradiate. Under the swarm, the only units that work would be zealots, but in late game they get outclassed so badly by lings that they're not even viable, and if P catches a plague, then shields always take full damage and it's just laughable how quickly p units evaporate even against very few lings.
The only things that work are templars and reavers, but you're forced to storm even against very few units, so in the end they're really unlikely to be cost effective.
In this series Mini went mass archons, probably to minimize plague damage, but it didn't really work. The only option I guess would have been a massive use of shuttle + reavers + templars but again that's a very expensive unit composition that's hard to pull off if P is down to essentially only 2 mining bases.
In the end I really feel like defilers were what allowed Soulkey to climb his way up to a comeback in both g3 and g5, that at some point almost looked hopeless for him.
It is true Zealots really lose value in lategame ZvP. But Shield dont take full damage if Protoss upgrades shields armor even buildings profit from it. It is true that Protoss cant do anything vs plague, but the army is still super strong. Dark archon feedback counters defiller. And mass Storms counters everything Zerg has similar to Irradiate in ZvT. Further the big thing you forget is the fact that Protoss needs less exposes in lategame and profits massievely from its Spell casters in Ultra late game vs Zerg. So once Protoss has 2/5 of the bases he just needs to defend to win. And generally the defender has an advantage specially vs units like Lukers ...
The main counter to dark swarm is actually psi storm since the aoe matches well and it's pretty easy to blanket dark swarms with storm. It's just not noticeable because storm counters everything, from every race, in starcraft.
@@majormononoke8958 That's not what they meant by "full damage." If you upgrade shields, they still take full damage -3. "Full damage" in this context means that shields take the same amount of damage regardless of which unit they're on: small, medium, or large. It doesn't take reduced damage from explosive weapons the way small unit health does, even if it's on a small unit.
This is why marines, which have 40 hp, take 4 hits from a dragoon to kill, despite the dragoon's attack doing 20 damage, because it's 20 explosive damage which is then halved vs small units. If the marine had protoss shields, the shields would take 20 damage per hit, and then the marine's health would take 10 damage per hit once it's gone - the shields take "full damage."
one thing mini didn't do this finals is storm/reaver drops... he killed effort with them, and then I don't think he tried them once in finals.... it's hard to win against bigger eco.... and he did almost nothing to curb it, some early zealot harass in last game, and dts earlier was not enough
@@majormononoke8958 it is true feedback is a clean answer to defilers but again, dark archon is an extremely expensive unit for its value 175 minerals and a 250 gas), so it has the same problem of not being cost effective, expecially compared to defilers that with consume have basically infinite energy while the DK doesn't. Also the DK is an extremely clumsy unit, it's huge, hard to move around and easy to trap.
Got to say, Tastless has really come along as a technical caster for BW. He has always been great at the banter, but i love his insight for P matchups these days.
Soulkey é um mestre na defesa! E o Mini um gênio atacando! Final fantástica e muito merecido o campeão
Kkk não imaginava encontrar um comentário em português, mas realmente Soulkey é brabo demais merecia ter ganhado uma ASL faz tempo
Soulkey fue muy incisivo en sus decisiones de ataques. A Mini le faltó agresividad
Great cast. Great Games. Wish there were more :-)
This might be the best ASL finals of all time
This season was an amazing journey! Thank you everyone and LONG LIVE STARCRAFT!
Much respect to all players. Extra respect to Artosis and Tasteless... still doing it big and still doing it the best
great translation! really top notch work
A truly close 4-1. I have a feeling that taking mini to ultra late game was Soulkey's strategy. If you notice, most of Mini's games end in the early to mid game. Mini just seemed lost at some points during these games. Roaming around the center of map with his giant army. Looking lost as to how to engage and where to engage. Soulkey just seemed to have a clear attrition strategy.
A small aspect was the mind games which soulkey won in at least the first 2 games clearly.
Well played to them both. Mini did play well but was truly outclassed.
You should put something in the front to prevent spoilers for fellow gamers.
But agreed, insane game with both players playing well.
Thanks for the spoilers, I guess. Soulkey's strategy to bait mini go to inefficient trades worked. Also the fact that mini didn't even considered to expand when he's ahead or even deny especially that darning game 5 (he could've taken all the ramp expos and left the top right for Zerg where it's vulnerable because of 2 openings). And it seems that he didn't want to create separate armies roaming in the map, and always goes one mass army going back and forth like a headless chicken. Also, game 2 is closer than you might think and I believe it's more favored to mini than SK. SK drop attempt didn't resulted much. It's 3 base P vs. 4 base Z, and SK doesn't have a Hive tech yet and banked all of its resources to Lurkers (1:15:40) for a Lurker spread. Mini could've denied any attempt for SK to expand and kept storming the base at 3 to deny mining and fight a battle of attrition from there. But instead, he tried to bust that Lurker spread and decided to back off when he realized that it's not a favorable trade.
@@gkdlswmI don't get why people would read comments if they don't want spoilers.
That was one of the best if not the best ASL finals ever despite the score
The overlapping voices at the end was a little rough. Excellent finals and a great end to a top tier season of ASL.
Omg so quick. Thank you tastosis :3
Iam sorry Artosis but i didnt catch this or not, but did you just compare Mins wall to a pair of yoga pants?
Sad and happy, I wanted Mini to win, but it's always nice to see new champions
Mini threw SOOOO hard. He should have annihilated southwest base but waffled.
MORE ASL!! Long Live Brood War!
Artosis and Tasteless have amazing chemistry. Wish I could watch these games with their commentating more. I found them initially from the jaedong vs stork 3 series.
*SPOILERS*
it's a pleasure to watch Soulkey's strategy. He never let mini attack for free. Each time Mini commits he gets hit back twice as hard, which is really similar to chess gambit. It's amazing to see strategy rather than speed/mechanics being the winning factor.
Yes, he manages his APM quite well. Rarely lightning fast (for a Korean pro I mean), but somehow just what's needed in the moment.
Can you guys add empty stuff to the end of the video to make ot always look like a full series. b.c when ur the near the end of the video and you look at the score it auto spoils the result
Can you please add some dead time to the end of videos for spoilers? The result was pretty evident well before the end of the series. Thank you.
It's been said a thousand times, but it's really lame how the length of the video spoils the match. In best of 5/7 series, 9 times of 10 you know who is going to win after the second match.
Can we just add some time at the end of every video to get to 5h for the next season of ASL? Seeing that it's 3:1 and there are just 20 min left of the video spoils the results EVERY TIME.
Search in youtube for "No spoilers for ASL" there some guy that made a video how to avoid it while watching the video.
It's kills the video for the allmighty algorithm, so that is not happening.
If you are watching on PC, get a browser extension to hide video length.
@@HasekuraIsuna Touché, however it's not like these videos will be trending. Only people who know of ASL and watch ASL look for them, so I'm not sure if this is really a problem.
I am the first - i love you tasteless and artosis - please take care of your health to live longer
I'm very happy for the winner, even though I cheered for the runner-up.
By the way....... wtf with the end of the audio!? XD
Thank you very much for the awesome work!!
See you in the next ASL ...... bye bye! Tastosis out!!
Yes, this was an insane round up. Last season's runner up against the player coming from round 24 loser's match to the finals. Wow, extreme variation.
As a casual viewer, the defiler seems like such a broken yet. A unit that basically can nullify all projectile units and most races having nothing to really counter that considering it's always comboed with the lurker which is technically a projectile but acts as a melee attack. A spell that makes a unit one shotted after a few seconds, and technically infinite energy with the consume spell. Not sure what any race is supposed to do against this as it seems that Teran only has firebats and Protoss has zealots and reavers, while zerg has cracklings, ultras, and lurkers that counter almost all units.
never give up! after this, soulkey gains my all respect for ever
Completely deserved... i did like the games vs Rush better, they were intersting and intense!
Havent played SC1 in about 20 years, still tune in to finals of ASL when cast by tastosis :D I love the longevity of this game... Hopefully Microsoft does it justice
1:20:25 - Minor point, but Tasteless refers to the "crucifix area"; it should be "cross area". The cross is that shape, while the crucifix is that shape with Jesus on it.
Insane stamina by the winner. What brutal grinding games
The priest and monk praying lmao. Man I need to see ASL live eventually
Why carriers are not a thing in ZvP? Great games as always btw, despite me not knowing much lol
Hydra+dark swarm
unfortunate but somehow not too shocking, I think with players of similar skill the race that won has a significant advantage as long as they aren't too far behind going past mid-game, and the other player wasn't quite able to create a situation where they could leverage an earlier advantage into a decisive finisher
honestly, it's amazing the 2nd place player even made it this far, they showed some really great games, micro, macro, and ideas, and I hope they aren't too upset over what happened. they still did great and are an inspiration imo, especially when you look at how their race does in general at the top level
I just got a cheese it ad. I couldn't help but post about the perfect fit of it.
I can't believe Soulkey took this season from my boy Rush but if you can win against him you are insane so I celebrate the new ASL 16 Champion!
That series was so good
Have they stopped 3rd/4th play off?
1:16:40 Shouldn't this scrab damage the shilds? Or it did and I don't see it?
Scarb don’t do friendly fire damage
Absolutely awesome games.
FINALly!
it has been about time ... ;)
TLDR to those still thinking Protoss is OP - go win anything as protoss. Problem is both Terran and Zerg can set up turtle/defensive positions where even with 50 supply up as protoss you can't break. Yet protoss got hard time doing it and it does translate a lot into losses for P.
Same with early aggression speed lings or hydra busts - top P's lose to that all the time after so many years - because it works so damn well.
I'm not saying game is imba, but frankly after so many years people should stfu how it is easy to play P - especially at high level.
Best excuse is that T/Z players are either just better or "working harder". Good joke.
Still enjoyable games , thanks for upload.
And yet Rain got into the finals while being retired. And Mini blow Effort to char.
I think that's a "you" issue, there.
@@BenjaminGlatt doubt , "me" doesn't play anymore for many many years. I used to play a lot back then . Nice try though. Still you didn't use any argument at all to justify this "observation" "you" had there. P's dying all the time to zergling rushes and hydra busts - top tier P's ... not "me" , "them" pros.
@@Mario-kf3ej yeah, definitely a "you" problem.
@@BenjaminGlatt no "you"
Awesome series finale. So happy for the winner.
Could someone tell me the background music at 2:36:50?
Absolutely amazingly done by soulkey. Very well deserved. Congrats
Spoiler
Soulkey overcame a lot of hurdles to get here, his matches gainst Rush and specially JyJ were so tough, and this series was no slouch, it may have been a 4:1 but Mini fought tooth and nails every single game, like artosis said, this is the closest one sided series ive ever seen
2:21:15 Artosis reads subtle body language like an expert. Should have been a detective :)
He plays terran, of course.
Compared to the rest of the seasons matches this was rather underwhelming. Congrats to the winner though - highly deserved.
Dude did you not watch game 2?
Final Game Spoilers:
Mini absolutely knew about the base in the lower left corner. He had a zealot there which had to be killed before SoulKey could expand there and he sends a unit up the ramp a little later. The blue square also definitely hops down to that base for a second as well.
Not gonna lie, I love you guys and have watched for years, but I'm sad that we, the scene (that you helped build and maintain, thank you guys again) are still slow to get these out.
Yes, this is an improvement but I've still already watched it. I just couldn't wait (mini and soulkey hell yes).
I know you guys live across the world from one another but I mean c'mon, you guys are doing very well, you should be able to wake up at 2am like the Tekken casters who do it for KFC and McDonald's coupons.
I only say this because it feels like I know you guys, and it feels like I know you would agree.
The finals should be live cast next time? No? Maybe a short delay if Afreeca complains)
I meant so say I'm sad that we have to wait still because you're always days late on the upload. It wasn't so bad when other talent wasn't beating you to the punch. I can't NOT click if they upload, y'know?
You could not click. I don’t.
TBH releasing first is just a race to the bottom in terms of quality. Tastetosis should not play that game. As long as they release within a day or two, I’m happy.
The only thing you can request for is to have Afreeca hire Tastosis for the English simulcast if you want them got it out fast or even watch it live if you're able to catch it. The upload schedule in itself depends always on Afreeca, and Tastosis is only able to cast the video after the game has ended, not to mention they still add dubs for the commentary that adds to the total time it'll take to get out.
Unless they as fast as StarCraft English, they should do quality instead of speed
@@Zee_lots I dunno.. I won't plug the competition but I think the others quality is just as good, might be a little more hardcore analysis but I do enjoy it. Usually I can wait but this finals was too hype.
Drone-pocalypse of Game 3 - 02:09:35 (moved to 4th and centre of map) - so Tasteless caught it within less than a minute :D
Biggest surprise for me is that I really expected more cheese and off-color builds from Mini. Felt like he was playing, if not exactly standard, pretty vanilla for most games.
Here Oct 28 2024 just before SoulKey wins his third ASL/SSL
So many epic games :O
Why is the thumb nail photo from like 10 years ago
music playing at 5:10 onwards?
Is there a 3rd place match?
Tasteless commentary on fire!! Very enjoyable finals
Heyyyy u guys took out the weird audience-on-stage moment where they made fun of mini (between games 2 and 3). It had the buddist and the bible guy. Why did you take that out?
Are there any active clans looking for new members on sc bw?
Have a question for those playing regularly on high level about game 1.
Why does Mini despite the hefty price doesn't research the disruption web. It will cost 500/400 so 5-6 Dragoons of a price.
With it I can easily see how he could have cleared all the Overlods clumped over Hydras with no risk and can make offensives much easier at any of the high ground bases.
I question I have always asked myself. Perhaps some toss players could elaborate
Basically it's not guaranteed investment.
You have to keep corsairs alive, they need to get energy... But that is not that great problem.
Main problem is micromanagement. Even 4-6 high templars with readily usable spell 75 energy storm is very hard to micro correctly and HTs are always spread in the army.
Corsairs stack and it is complicated to use distruption web correctly, not multicast and at the same time attack with corsairs and not fall foul of hydras that dodge the distruption web altogether.
Sum: It would be useful when microed perfectly but chance of it being bad is too large, especially given lack of training.
@@JGD_CZE Thanks a lot for the explanation!
I still think that it would be extremely good in terms of circumstances (in game 1). But you share insight because players don't practice it (and Mini's decision making may gloss over it without even considering) and how it could not lead to the decisive outcome I was thinking.
Still those 6 Corsairs in that particular game were already with high energy and were alive for enough time and paid for themselves - could potentially allow him avenue for entering at base 2 or 3 much easily as Hydras were defending against Zealots and buildings were slowing down the whole attack buying time for response, while Web would allow the Zealots to support the attack and just walk over the 'wall' in much shorter time (but the time needed for the research would slow it down on its own).
@@dtibvgz8441 When I used to play PvZ, Corsair Reaver Dweb was my favourite strat to use against Zerg on Neo Requiem (La Campanella is Neo Neo Requiem).
But It was... It was terran level APM microfest and in the end even with dozens and dozens of dead overlord, hundreds of dead hydras and scores of sunken/spore colonies killed... Zerg side of "just survive and macroup" was still too strong.
IMO best Protoss is with heavy use of spells and micro heavy units (Reavers, Carriers)...
BUT. Simple gatewayman toss is like 10% less effective and 50% less difficult.
Look up Bonyth PvT games. He uses Disruption web very often but it have middling usefulness. And Siege tanks are much more stationary targets than hydras. It is very cool but just imagine every DWEB is Psi Storm and you will realise that that micro is much superior.
In PvZ it should kinda be more usefull but most of the time Corsairs lose their value as the time goes on. And should you have loads of corsairs, you probably did not see what 3 devourers do with 12+ corsair fleets. Its not pretty...
@@dtibvgz8441 I think it's a good idea, but not against hydra, or any army. They will just walk out immediately. Dweb is better to help bust a base. Soulkey had so many sunkens and lurkers defending, and Dweb will shut that down. The only thing is, if u use a lotta zealot/archon, they will run up and potentially get under the web too, disabling them. So you need to use goon/reaver or maybe drop the melee units in the base at the right spots to atk the defenses from outside the web.
finally, cannot wait! :)
Such dominance. Felt unbeatable