I applaud Hayden for bringing up this issue! It always frustrates me that it seems nobody really understands what he is trying to say here. I my self have voiced this concern and received the same scorn! An analogy is appropriate: Say you love food, and frequently visit a particular restaurant that has become your favorite. They have all kinds of good food to chose from on the menu, and you love to try them all. As time pass, you notice that every time you visit, it seems that there is less and less options to choose from on the menu! One day you arrive, there is just ONE type of burger, that is it! Nothing else on the menu! OK, yes that burger is tasty and OK, but after eating the only choice on the menu for the longest time, you will certainly loose interest in the whole restaurant and stop visiting. Regrettably everybody seems to get mad and stand up on their soapbox and yell: “Don't tell me what to do!” or “Stop talking #x* about my FT8!” We are NOT telling you what mode to use. And we are not stepping on FT8! What we are trying to express here is a feeling of loss / sorrow that it seems like there is only one ting left on the menu: FT8!
As one studying now for an amateur license in my 60s I see this very sharp social divide in the hobby and FT8 (only the most common one there are lots of other digital modes) seems to be the fulcrum of this lever. Another issue seems to be the S6 noise floor issue that nearly everyone needs to deal with. Also the old hams spent A LOT of money over the years on their shacks and a $400 64MHz 16-bit SDR and the removal of a Morse code requirement I think makes many of them feel cheated when they compare. Also ham clubs I’ve seen tend to be very closed little clubs all their new members hopes to the contrary. I think the existing ham clubs should reach out through FT8, embrace it, and offer URLs in contacts that point to their own local club content on SNR and stealth multiband antenna solutions. I think there’s a way to “advertise” their clubs this way that will actually position local ham clubs as a desirable local resource. Maybe organize regular meetings in restaurants or bars, local club spaces, library rooms… tons of possibilities just to ‘bring the goods’ on cheaply and effectively cutting SNR, home brew discones, etc. On the other hand from my own experience these old hams need to check their privilege. I’ve been hearing local 400W mountaintop repeater’s nets traffic about wasting employers time, yummy suppers and vacations and the personal medical details of someone’s neighbour. I very much doubt that woman had given permission for this blabbermouth to blow his own brand of hot air about her emergency surgery. This critique of old hams is not unfounded. Maybe old hams need to try Discord for some of that. I’ve also listened as a bigshot in a meeting bragging about his recent trip took advantage of a captive audience to preach his own political take on “Americans” - this was at the first meeting I had asked to zoom in to. Not a good look on anyone ever, and an indelible bad first impression. I can be abused that way for free if I just scroll through Facebook. I don’t need to pay an annual membership fee and realize I’ve been rooked again by this 800-lb gorilla in the club shack if that’s what I want. You’ve mentioned before that ham radio is social as well. At a certain point full grown grandfathers (often) need to start acting their age. They know better.
I have a problem with SSB: Hardly anyone on SSB actually communicates. You don't have to ragchew, but.. my god, do something other than contesting for once. And if you have to ask me 5 times for my callsign then don't give me 59. To me, that's the same as if you had given me no signal report, because in those cases, the only thing I know is that I am everything BUT 59. And finally, if two people are talking, or even rag chewing, don't whistle into the mic. If you wanna join break in, otherwise spin the dial. 73!
I think you have one thing mistaken about the asking for the call 5 times and the 5-9 report, and most get this wrong I believe. I ask for the call repeatedly when I still copy at 5-9. Why? Well thats easy. Memory. I don't recall everything. I may have a nice clean strong readable perfect signal on you, but just like talking to my wife, I will ask her to repeat something she just said also, and there is no noise between our conversation. I simply missed a word, or misunderstood something, and am asking for clarification or a repeat. It is very easy to miss letters when copying a callsign. I don't know how many times I miss the second character of the call in a 2x?. Especially when hams use non-NATO phonetics. I wish folks would stop picking on this as if we are not actually hearing and copying you as a true 5-9. We are. We most certainly are copying you as a 5-9. We also are dealing with some issues of our own that complicate things, and we don't need you making it harder, or telling us we aren't hearing you as such. If you are truly doubting the contact quality, call it out but, I am betting the person is just missing a character is why they ask for a repeat, otherwise copy's just fine. Hams speak fairly fast, and often have an accent that we don't always understand at first and need to hear a second time possibly to truly understand, regardless of how clean the copy was the first time. We just aren't prepared sometimes for what we hear, we are expecting one thing, and are met with another, and that confuses our brain, and slows us down, causing a loss of data. Stop shaming folks for asking to repeat on the callsign, especially if thats all they asked you to repeat. I'll also cede that there are way too many folks that are not giving fair and accurate RST reports, and thats doing a huge disservice to all of us. None of us can make improvements to our stations or know if something is truly wrong if every report is 5-9-9. This also has to stop. If there is something not right in my signal, let me know. if oyu honestly cant read me, let me know, if my tone is off, let me know. Trust, I am going to pick, and nit pic on your signal. That is my responsibility, and obligation. If its clean and within the lines, I say nothing, if its dirty and looks like a lot lizard got hold of the shaft, I'll tell ya so you can clean it up so the "wife" (others) dont find out!
@@NovemberOneOscarGrouch This is a common issue. I helped a friend through this. he and I talked about it afterwards, and came up with the crazy idea, that maybe there should be a rule that new licensees, should be required to spend the first 6 months with a mic in hand learning etiquette, and on air skills before being allowed sole digital use. Kinda like the old Novice was required to have a yr before being allowed to upgrade, etc. Of course, we do know this would never fly. Too many guys would get their knickers in a bunch, and cry foul about it. It was a fun food for thought in the idea though as to what could be accomplished with the skills if such an idea was approached.
My issue with SSB is that everyone is on 20 meters and it’s extremely difficult to find a clear frequency. It would be nice if we used the other bands more often so that this was more spread out.
@JonathanKayne 20m gets the most activity because it's typically long and easy to make contacts any time of the day. Call out on 10,12,15,17 during the day and you will find people. Not as many, but they're there. At night play on 40, 80 and 160. There's always people around, but not a lot calling CQ. Stick with it. Have patience and call out. People are there.
I got my general license this year. I originally started with the idea of just CW for SOTA. After some initial frustrations and failures I bought a QDX, started working FT8, and have been having a lot of fun with POTA hunting and activations. This has rekindled my desire to build a QMX radio kit and get on the air with CW. I feel a lot more confident now having the operating experience from the last several months on FT8. I see FT8 as an HF mode with minimal barriers to entry that has allowed me to experience the excitement of operating on the HF bands and learn first-hand about propagation, antennas, common mode currents, etc. This has kept me interested in the ham radio hobby so that I can take the next step.
Some of us at home have no choice, at my home, the noise floor is so bad that FT8 is really the only option for me. (Even CW is very hard to copy here)
Correct - that’s why I do FT8 at home and SSB portable from some quiet place outdoors. That’s what I enjoy most - sitting at the lake, having a glass of wine and some amateur radio contacts for sunset….❤
@@Robbie-sk6vc Really? Not when you live in an apartment building, especially a high rise. I completely shut off all power in my apartment, used chokes and other suggestions and my noise floor did not change one db.
@@Robbie-sk6vc Wow that's quite rude, but ok I'll bite. What do you suggest? I have done the following: Filters, different antennas, different radios, better grounding, walked around with a radio to identify noise sources, the noise floor around my house on pretty much all bands is a SOLID 10 over S9 for about a good half mile around my house. (I live in an inner city) . Tried the RM noise client, tried tossing up my mobile dipole in the drive way and using my mobile rig, same noise, Worked with other HAM's to try to identify the noise floor source here. Tied to listen in to CW to see if I could use that as a mode, (no dice, it's too faint) So what else do you suggest? And as for being a real ham, I am at the park a few miles away from my house almost every evening with my mobile rig where I CAN do SSB/CW etc. (And for the record, comments like this are doing more to kill the hobby then any digital mode ever did. I know at least 2 people who literally were interested and decided not to study/take test due to comments like this. I convinced ONE of them to ignore it but we lost the 2nd)
The noise is from switching power supplies and the FCC failing to "regulate" them. I had to replace almost all of them in my home with custom-built supplies. TVs and computer monitors, battery chargers, and ethernet cables are the worst. For an apartment, a remote rig is the only real solution.
I like FT-8 for making a few quick contacts over lunch, but I miss seeing a lot of activity on PSK-31. I always enjoyed a rag chew and there seem to be fewer and fewer signals on psk. I often struggle with voice because of less than stellar hearing, but with strong signals as you say - it's totally viable a lot of the time
Well said. i have been preaching this for a long time now. ft8 has it's place, but many have become zombies to it. But in addition to being lazy, i fear for many, it's become a numbers game, "how many i got in the log today". People are just numbers now, and not people.
Quite the contrary, successfully working FTA requires much more skill unlike SSB which is really nothing more than a glorified cell phone mode where a bunch of old men get to hang out and gossip and complain about their aches and pains
@@dannelson8556 i am not against ft8, or any other digi mode, in fact i mostly use digital modes. note the plural on modes, yes there is more than FT8!! To name some, Q65, Olivia,ROS,PSK31, JS8CALL, RTTY, MT63 ect. i use them all. but i am the only one on the band doing so, while. i see the s9+ spike on the ft8 frequency. my problem is with the overuse of ft8, to the detriment of all the other modes, including analog voice.
@@43PR50 bingo. This is where ham must go, if we are to keep it. The bands are not ours to keep, so we must make them useful, or new users will not bother.
Thank you so much Hayden, been waiting for so long for one of you youtubers actually address the biggest issues with ft8 instead of encouraging people to use it during these times of good propagation like most of the other youtubers do. Thank you
I’m lazy. I got my license in 1977, then had children sold my gear and was off and radio until 2022 when I retired. Finding out how much the technology has changed with FT8 and wanting to get as many DX stations as I can during this period of solar max, I feel like I’m playing catch up in DXCC and WAS. So yes I’m doing mostly FT8 in about 2 years I have WAS in 80-10 meters and DXCC on 40 -10 meters, with 195 confirmed DX entities on QRZ. I have over 26,000 confirmed QSO’s on QRZ. That isn’t doable on SSB or CW modes. Yes, I’m lazy, but I have achieved quite a list DX stations and States. I do VARA HF another digital texting mode , which is keyboard to keyboard communication on HF. It’s much more time consuming, but enjoyable in a real communication process takes place. I SSB with friends on 40 and 80 meters, I FM on the local 2 meter repeater, and Digital FM using my DMR Anytone handheld and my PiStar hotspot. So I’m not apposed to using other modes. But most of my HAM time is FT8… I’m lazy but I enjoy my hobby with the new digital mods that are available now. 73
If people want to use FT8, they're going to. If they want to use SSB or CW, they're going to do those things as well. Before I had my EFHW high enough, I couldn't do SSB because my noise floor was too high and FT8 was all I could do -being able to make contacts in Antarctica from Seattle, is frankly what kept me interested in the hobby. FT8 paired with PSKreporter is also a great propagation tool to see if it's even worth trying SSB calls.
A decent CW op can work signals about as weak as FT8. And it's much faster. Start practicing, brother. It's worth it. Let's get that 6m VK - W6 land QSO!
In my experience, I have been able to make a JS8-Call (based on FT-8 modulation) when no CW could be heard. Fact is I have been able to make contacts with JS8-Call even through woodpecker interference!
@@gabrielsierra6890 are you sure there was a CW signal there to hear? I think that's partly Hayden's point - if folks are only trying FT8, that's all you'll get them on. The JT modes are very capable, but so is CW when people choose to use it. My intent is not to knock the digital modes but to instead encourage operating on other modes that are similarly capable with even less equipment complexity. It's very fun and rewarding to work weak signal contacts on minimalist CW equipment.
@@K6ARKYou and K4SWL got me into CW…it is now my primary mode for portable. FT8 is great, but I do feel more accomplished doing CW. Just need to finally be able to hear you up in AK when you’re doing SOTA.
@@Aramalas heck yeah! It can happen with the right conditions. Saturday evening, I worked a friend who was visiting Juneau on 20m. He was rocking a KH1 with the silly little whip antenna!
The problem with the current solar cycle is that even though the numbers we all want to see are often way up near or well over 200, the A/K indexes end up being high and really there isn't anything going special about the propagation. 2-3 years ago I was working all sorts of DX on FT8/FT4, well before the peak. And since then the bands are "garbage" in comparison because there are always solar disturbances and high A/K numbers.
OMG! This is exactly my experience! All the chat about solar maximum being great has been absolute BS. The bands are utter crap at the moment. Last autumn I could work the world at will - it's a struggle this summer to get close to that experience.
FT8 has its place. But I do prefer OLIVIA, JS8CALL & VARA HF for keyboard to keyboard comms. I struggle with SSB, but that's more my limited 10w output. Looking towards the standard license soon.
How do you know the bands suck? Is it there are no other persons, or that the propagation is just not going anywhere, in which case wouldn't the latter suggest that everyone is in the same situation, and then yes, I certainly agree, FT8 is designed for such. Otherwise, not everyday is an FT8 day. In fact, that would mean, in almost certainty 99.9% of the time, it is not time for FT8, there is just no PHOINE activity. In conclusion that would mean there should be no FT8 activity most of the time but in rare occasions or in specific occasions of research. This is where ALE would benefit Amateurs. Amateurs would find out that the bands are open, and what freqs to use. They wouldnt be hunting and pecking at what they find, they would know without doubt what bands are open and to what parts of the world.
How do i know? When I have to call cq more than 30 times in a few hours. When I don't see anything on the scope. When I don't hear the net controls that are usually there . Those are w few ways I can tell
@@ae4xo hahahaha, no! What you described is a normal occurrence for everyone of us, that happens multiple times a day. No band is so stable as to produce reliable communications throughout the day for us every time we desire to use it. You just have to suck it up and remember you aren't that entitled! It means the you need to wait a moment and see if the band will change and favor you again, which it may, or may not. you probably need to switch bands though. Calling CQ 30 times in a few hrs, is nothing. All you have done here is demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of propagation, and state that you are adamant that you stay on the band and not learn how to use your tools properly.
@@russellclarke6855 And there are tons of other things you can do with JS8 besides QSOs. I love to just poke around and see what antenna and power people are using. JS8 is a better propagation tool to me than FT8.
Hi Hayden, the other night I was listening on 11m and EU was very strong, I then QSYED to 10m CW and with only low power was working EU stations at 599, then QSYED to SSB and worked a friend of mine in the UK with S7 signals, he and I were the only ones on the band (looking at waterfall) ... 73, from Darwin De VK8NSB
Electronic communication has removed a lot of personal interaction. When TV came out people stopped visiting each other, stopped going out and stayed home. The internet has continued this further. Now everybody is communicating and nobody is speaking. Ham radio digital modes are just an extension of this phenomenon.
Please dont define our hobby for all of us. This is what makes the HAM hobby so diverse. Many HAMs are introverts and doesnt want to have "personal interaction" - "before computers" the introverts were on CW. Now we are on FT8. I love my hobby, and I love FT8. Please dont judge how I exercise my hobby. Thanks and 73 de SM4XDJ.
I get this perspective, but I really enjoy FT8 when paired with Grid Tracker. I'm also really busy right now, and FT8 allows me to flip on the radio and make some contacts during short slow-periods at work when I'm able to split my attention. Just now, from Colorado, I made FT8 contacts to New Zealand, Australia, and Africa on 10 meters. Then I made a contact on 15m to Japan and suddenly five DX stations were contacting me when I wasn't even calling CQ. It was really fun(!), even tho I didn't "talk" to anyone. Probably only my 5th contact with Australia during the current solar cycle.
It seems like you are assigning a personal preference for SSB as if it should be the same for everyone else. If not for the digital modes and CW I would not do radio. I am certain there are others just like me because I have heard them say so. I have a room set up that has all my office space, radio equipment, and electronics in one space. While I am working during the day, I can also be doing FT8 without the two conflicting with each other. I can't stop working to do an SSB contact. I would not likely do it even if I could. My interest is seeing where the signals are going to and coming from as well as how it changes over time. A contact is a contact. I have no interest in general chit-chat about the weather or how someone's colonoscopy exam went.
Ft8 has been a game changer for sure. For me ft8 is perfect for late night of dxing on 30m. Chasing dx is a skill on ft8. Great vid, great content tnx 73
I don't think FT8/4 is a game changer. Rather, an operating mode like any other. But one thing is clear: when people no longer speak or write to each other (unlike VarAC Mode, for example), a lot of knowledge is lost. Because how should an exchange of experiences or a discussion take place? You should always keep this in mind if you only do FT8 instead of doing a proper QSO. Greetings Jochen DH1KJ
Good video, I have used many of the digital modes, I have really appreciated them and enjoyed using them. I stopped using any digital modes at beginning of 2023 because I wanted to make more use of SSB and really enjoy those contacts, I have no plan at present to use any digital, I think it’s the way that the hobby is and that it will evolve over time, the propagation I would agree with other comments has not been anything like it was back in the 80’s. Even if a band appears dead I will always put out CQ and listen
This topic came up locally in the course of the US Field Day contesting. 10/6m were all but dead on anything other than FT8/FT4. I made a suggestion to the ARRL that they factor balance into their scoring. They already do with a bonus for QRP and for CW. I think what you are implicitly arguing for is that balance. FT8/FT4 are fine, they have their place, but let's have some balance. I wonder if contesting is partly responsible for the takeover of those two modes? Maybe other contests could also approach rewarding balance across modes. AG8D / Dominic
it could be. I never see much more than the health checks, but I haven't checked in about 6 months. tried leaving messages for folks, but never get a reply.
@@SMShannon55 I think Allan just sent "go SSB" in the free text bit of FT8 and perhaps he moved to the international DX calling frequency which is 50.110 MHz.
Trying to remember, either the calling frequency or nominated frequency with free text. Either way, when you see strong FT8 signals, try your luck, "SSB 50.110" ......
You can do Digital Voice with RF! Take DMR, C4-FM, D-Star, etc... You don't need internet for those, maybe for linking, but even voice rpts are linking with echolink or IRLP.
I think you misunderstand how these digital modes work. You certainly can use all of these digital modes purely over RF. D-Star, DMR, C4FM, all of them can be done over RF without the internet. As well, even if you could not, these modes could be piggy-backed on an ARDEN system, or other MESH network, which is also a pure RF network as well in some areas, and fully simulates the commercial internet. It may carry anything the internet does for our amateur radio needs, with great reliability.
I know that one of the big uses of FT8 is to get away from their high urban noise floor. The issue I saw with my old location was that the higher the solar cycle, the more my noise crept up. So I don't think you can expect people to put the strain on their ears just because the solar conditions are good. I think a LOT of the proliferation of FT8 is the increase in this modern society of noisy electronics from your neighbors. Having moved away from a lot of my noise generators, I use voice modes a lot more and FT8 rarely. And of course, add that to people in compromised locations, apartments, HOAs and I think you add to the number of FT8 operators. 30 years ago when I started, my noise floor was much lower and my use of voice and CW was much more prolific. There are people in the category you highlight but I am not convinced that is the majority.
Oops I forgot to add, my location isn’t the best or worst for noise - kind of in between, but I noticed a lot of loud signals on FT8, which to me just says, try SSB. But obviously everyone’s MMV!
Due to noise level and some antenna restrictions I almost never operate from home but portable somewhere outdoors. But occasionally I do some ft8 from home, that’s fine.
During cycle 22, I worked a LOT of Europe on a daily basis from the eastern US on 10m while mobile. I worked thousands of stations worldwide on PSK31 from California during Cycle 23. I had quite a few ragchews while mobile (driving commercially) on 20m during 24, but nothing like 23. I took the HF rig out of my truck during the bottom of 24-25, and had a blast on D-Star. (I still do.) I fired up the HF rig for the first time in a while in mid-July. Very little voice activity on 20m, and put the radio back in storage.
I got my license just so I can do FT8 and other digital modes. I know some of my ham friends also work digital exclusively. For discussions about ham tech things etc, we use FB groups. Digital communication do attract it's people to ham culture.
While I like FT8 because it is a watering hole set of frequencies to see what the ionosphere is doing, I have noticed that digital chat modes have been picking up a bit. I have been having more chat QSOs on modes like PSK31 and Olivia 2/250. It would be nice to see more chat mode activity, for sure.
First of all, thank you for your channel - the content is excellent. Re FT-8, I've been a ham for 43 years. For the first 20 years or so, I focused on CW, as my 'modest' station with a TS-830 (later a TS-450 and then a KX-3/TS-590) with a dipole or a vertical and 100W seemed to work the 'difficult ones' only on CW. I loved working CW, earned DXCC-CW and worked phone on occasion too. While still a KA2, I started using FT-8 and ended up with 177 countries over 40 years. Not DXCC Honor Roll, but lots of fun hours on the radio. I moved to VK3 2 years ago and have a S9+ noise level on 40m and somewhat less, but significant, noise levels on the higher bands. I rarely hear SSB and CW stations - not sure if it is my noise level or changes in operator habits, though there is plenty of activity on FT-8. With my TS-590 and an end-fed half wave, I've worked 200 countries, so I have worked more countries on FT-8 in two years than I did using CW/SSB (and some FT8) over 40 years. You are right -- FT-8 arguably does not take the same amount of skill and is less 'personal' than SSB and CW can be, though SSB and CW contacts can be pretty generic also. Ideally, we would all have access to all three modes (and more!). However, as only FT-8 seems to work at my current QTH, it is much better than nothing for me. Also, in my experience, all bands are not 'open' all the time and PSK Reporter (using FT-8) is a great way to confirm this. That's one aspect of FT-8 I really love -- the real-time feedback that one gets around band conditions. That said, if you are running 1,000W into 5 element directional antennas, maybe bands are open more often than at my more modest station. So, I agree that it would be ideal for hams to operate across a variety of modes. But for those like me that are only able to work FT-8 from their locations, it's much better than nothing.
Well, although the numbers appear to be high, the propagation is NOT there. If a ham has only been licensed for about 10 years, they have never seen good propagation. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, you could with little effort work 100 countries on 10m on a weekend using ssb/cw. 6 metres was hot too. The idea that everyone has gone to FT8 just is not true. Look at the automated beacons. They are not being heard. I have a 10m beacon that runs 24/7, and this "cycle" is one of the worse I can remember. Tune through where the beacons are, and they are not being heard. There are hundreds of beacons operating 24/7, and they are not being heard...
The prop was way better last winter/early spring here in central USA. I was working European DX on SSB daily every morning and Japanese stations most evenings. Summer hit and it got bad. Lower bands have been marginally ok at night and early mornings. Even had some pretty good 6 meter openings.
I was first licensed in the late 80s as KB8NAT, and I remember making quite a few DX contacts from Michigan to Australia and Japan. I was inactive during the intervening cycles. But I'm getting ready to jump back in soon. It's interesting that many in this thread are saying that the propagation is poor. I've been watching a lot of recent videos of POTA (parks on the air) and SOTA (summits on the air), and most of those stations are QRP and with lightweight vertical masts or slopers. They seem to be having good luck, both on SSB and CW. Most of these QSOs were on 20 and 40 meters. 73 de Gary W5PAZ
I often wonder about 10m beacons. You’ll hear a few, but the crazy openings haven’t been there in as far as the 10m beacons that are any significant distance away The D layer seems to have been making 20m pretty quiet by mid morning until the sun starts to set. One thing we all have plenty of is hash from every switch mode power supply in the immediate surrounds.
@@MidlifeRenaissanceMan I have been doing a 10m beacon for 30yrs. I have never seen it this poor. As far as local noise, I highly recommend something like a MFJ1026. They work well, you just need to be patient setting them...
When I was working night shift and on my nights off of work, I'd get out to the shack and start on FT8 around 2am in the morning. While monitoring PSK Reporter on the interwebs, I keep an eye on where my signal is the strongest. After making contacts on FT8 and other data modes, I'd move to SSB on 20 and 40m, sometimes on 17 and 15m. Those higher bands sometimes stays open late at night. One early morning on 20m SSB, I've make a contact in the middle on VK from my QTH in East Tennessee. That contact was just over 10k miles short path. W4ISB
For some like myself, being in an apartment with limited antennas, ft8 allows me to work the world where I cannot hear or use CW or SSB. I use it and enjoy it, no matter the naysayers. As for tradition, at one time everything is new, so Traditions are built over time. 20 years from now, FT8 will be considered a tradition possibly. Just like rtty was 50 yeas ago. It's all about having fun and enjoying the hobby, not so e gatekeepers who want everyone t do it their way. Thank you, Hayden, for your videos and ideas!
One is entitled to an opinion. Mine is that the aspect of those with disabilities FT8 is a viable option. Perhaps the only one. Also it enforces a protocol and obviates bad behaviour, aka LIDS.
I love FT8 and I love to talk on SSB. I use FT8 extensively for quickly testing and comparing antennas. Within a couple of minutes I can see on the map hundreds of accurate signal reports from all around the world. Using voice or CW, this kind of data could not be collected.
You seem to forget that QRM is a constant PITA. My noise floor is horrendous and I can often see S5+ noise - how many stations am I missing?! Also, FT8 is brilliant for DX Expeditions - no more pile ups. FT8 is also great from the perspective that I can talk to my family while still getting stations in the log. I don't enjoy battling for an SSB contact. Life is too short. You do you.
FT8 allows DX operation without spending $20,000 on a tower, beam, linear amplifier. I am walled in by landscaping and buildings and normally cannot be heard on SSB. CW doesn’t seem to get out either.
That's not true, in the past few weeks and months I've worked on a few stations on 10m that only had QRP 10w or less and mostly only vertical antennas. Including some from South America. Where there is a will there is a way, whoever does not call will not be heard. 73 Jochen DH1KJ
Instead of declaring FT8 to be a problem why not consider WHY it's still so popular? 1. Non-English speaking DX hams or those who are uncomfortable with speaking English can easily make DX contacts. 2 So can hearing-impaired hams. 3. Hams who are introverts (we do exist) find it fatiguing to key up a mic and jibber-jabber. FT8 lets us make lots of contacts without having to say anything. (this may also be why some hams rarely get on the air, preferring to build things and experiment. "The hobby of 1,000 hobbies.") 4. FT8 allows you to silently make contacts without disturbing others in your household. 5. It's easy to make DX contacts without having to struggle to understand what the DX ham is saying due to an accent or speaking very fast (like my DMR friend Ian in west Scotland for example.) 6. Most importantly, FT8 propagates better and further than SSB. If you have HamClock, enable VOACAP DE-DX in one of the top panes and compare FT8 to SSB for range and coverage at the same RF power level which you can do by clicking on one of the band numbers. (Click on it again to close the propagation map and return to the normal map view.) 7. A lot of the FT8-bashing boils down to the same thing: "Stop liking what I don't like!" They want those who prefer digital modes to get on SSB just so the bashers have more people to talk to in their own preferred mode, which is rather selfish IMO.
This is a perceptive observation. I’m new to HF stuff (studying for general) and new to ham radio overall. I went up to a local mountain and set up a wire and my g90. Just as I was beginning to get out and make some voice contacts, someone comes up and sets a hammock up on the tree right next to my antenna… no more than 20ft away. Admittedly, I got a little shy, so I flipped over to trying to figure out ft8. Managed to make some VERY distant contacts, as well as one not at all distant contact in my same grid square! I can see the draw to using exclusively ft8, because of how easy it was to get such a distant contact. But: before switching to digital, I heard a station calling CQ that sounded like a non-native English speaker… I got excited.. “maybe I’m reaching another country!” I tried responding, and that station heard me, asked me to repeat, but then said “sorry, my friend. The band isn’t quite clear enough for the contact. 73!” I now have a goal of reaching South America on voice! So yeah: ft8 has its place, but I see the need to use it WITH the other modes! (Cw is also on my list!)
Do you know what I hear? What some hams said when SSB became a thing "Oh no! This new mode called Sideband will kill Ham Radio. MUST ONLY USE AM." You poor little puppy. Let others do what they like and get used to it. FT8 is here. Too bad if you don't like it.
@@HamRadioDX Why so negative then? Don't be such a downer on digital modes. Entire generations now see Ham Radio as a hobby for old men because they don't like computers and think parts of the hobby are "too easy". By the way, the same was said about AM over CW as I wrote about your plug for SSB over digital. It is that "my favorite mode is better than your favorite mode" attitude that is slowly killing the hobby. Let all the modes be used by those who like them and stop publishing tripe like you have in this video.
The first thought that comes to me is: let people operate the way they like. If they like doing FT8, anyone elses experience and opinion of the mode doesn't mean anything. The second thing that comes to mind is the fact that sad hams have ruined phone and, to an extent, even CW. Doing FT8, you are less likely to have some sad ham complain to you or say something dumb while you are operating. The majority of my contacts have been phone but I have done more FT8 over the last couple of years because I haven't wanted to deal with the sad hams. I started doing CW as well but I got discouraged because so many operators wouldn't slow down for me.
The old elmer rule of if you don't like what you hear just spin the dial, don't engage. Well I kept spinning till I got to cw and digital and have been happy camper. It ain't just about band conditions as to why phone is dead. But small pistol, low investment and portable make the cw/digital modes always more attractive no matter the band conditions.
Good points. The problem I'm having is the the standard FT8 frequencies have become so crowded I've had to start using my amp at about 400W to finish QSOs at +6dB SNR. That's a perfectly a workable CW signal hence defeating the purpose of a weak signal mode.
Excellent video. It seems like phone, CW, and other digital modes are scarce as well. I remember when PSK31 was easy to find and today not so much. Would love to have some PSK or OLIVIA QSOs again.
I tried to get on FT8 for two years with my G90 but was unsuccessful, even after accumulating a bucketful of toroids, digirig, CE-19, jumper cables, etc. Got an iCom 7300 about two months ago and am finally able to play on FT8. My time available is limited to less than an hour a day, and I spend the first 40 minutes or so FT8ing and then go to SSB, mainly on the 20-meter band. I've had no luck at CQing on that band at the time I'm available (1300-1500 UTC). I can occasionally log into a net that I'm a member of, or answer someone else's CQ, but no luck with my own CQ so far, at usually 50w or 100w strength. Gotta keep trying though.
Wow! I love you from posting your comments about ft8. I've never used FT8 or ft4 I've used packet radio also psk 31. I found that a very useful mode when your qrp portable doing a Sota summits on the air I first tried PSK 31
Great video really well said, me personally im a SSB only operator love the challenge of working stations and the whole point i got into the hobby is to talk to real people not play on a keyboard, but each to their own i guess. And like you said i hear alot of strong stations on the digital modes that probably could use cw or ssb. Also you never know if the bands open unless you call.
A mode that allows the common person to work the world on a limited budget -Great! No need for amplifiers -Great! Useable in dense, restrictive environments -Great! Leverages the Internet generational familiarity to make Radio interesting to non hams -Great! We recently demonstrated Ham operations to a group of youth (scouts) aged 7 through teenagers. Almost nothing interested them until we ran FT8. This led to eager questions, operating and then voice contacts after they were comfortable. Digital operation may be a factor on keeping Amateur radio relevant to the next generation. I don't think it will harm anything, just as removing CW requirements for licenses did not kill CW. I am excited to see what comes next.
Sorry i did not mention why I'm weak station, qrp. 10w to 100w POUT, ground mounted vertical in-between trees and total height is lower than my gutter,so I only have North +/- 5 degrees. 2m 70cm SHF are near impossible for me as strata title rules antenna installation
What timing..... I have just sat in the shack. I normally leave the radio on 6m FT8. Some great signals, however the latest Gridtracker update shows E's up to about 700 mile. Nothing on SSB tho as I reacted to the strong signals by switching there. The cluster shows only FT8 on 6M too. Spot on comments Hayden. Use all the modes that you are able too, show your own diversity within the hobby. 2E0IGD
I do a lot of POTA these days, i like my gear to be man portable. FT8 helps getting to the threshold especially when propagation is not ideal and also it helps reaching dx stations; all with cheap equipment. I prefer SSB, i think is more fun but it happened more than a few times that no one was responding to my calls (or i wasn't able to hear them) for hours even, it sucks when it happens. I rarely have all day to do an activation so being able to get the contacts quickly keeps the activity enjoyable for me (and the poor souls that may have come with me 😂).
Sometimes I get bored with FT8, but one think I like, coupled with GridTracker, is to see how the bands fluctuate so much. A band like15M will be flat, and then suddenly spike up for a little bit, and then settle back down. It gives a real-time picture of how the bands are behaving. I do like the challenge of chasing DX on CW, though the speeds can be dizzying! Thanks for sharing! K3SLH
You make some good points here Hayden but let's look at things from a different perspective. I love radio and have done for many years but unfortunately I'm now extremely hard of hearing with only 8% natural hearing remaining and if it hadn't been for FT-8 my ham radio days would have finished around 6 years ago. I love SSB and talking to people but for me it's now almost imposible. Even a simple phone call for me is a struggle. So love it or hate it there are people out there like me who really don't have a lot of choice but to use FT-8 and other digital modes. CW never worked for me. I spent years trying to learn CW but it just couldn't get it to work. SSB contesting is out of the question for me now with so many people who want to rattle off call signs and number far too quickly and not using the International Phonetic Alphabet. Yes FT-8 does get a little bit boring at times but it's either that or pack up the shack and leave ham radio for good.
One of the best things one can do to eliminate noise is to use batteries, charge them while you don't use your radio and then use them. There's a lot of noise in the current due to all the low quality power supplies. RF antenna filters also help a lot.
Fully agree. Matter of fact the coming couple of months will bring great opportunity to talk the world on SSB if you give the contests a chance. Great video!
Totally agree. A guy was debating this with me at a hamfest saying it is great for deaf hams. I said there's plenty of digital modes that offer more than just a qsl and signal report. I think there's this pokemon attitude "gotta catch em all" when we should be focusing on the social side of the hobby. That said, I'm not saying we should stifle it - ft8, wspr etc all have their place especially when bands are marginal and you want to know what's open but there's zero skill involved
FT8 is just another mode, for me it's all about running it for an hour on auto and seeing where my 50/70/144MHz VHF signals are being received so I can optimise calling CQ on SSB or Meteor Scatter Modes. I agree, its over-used in place of more social forms of communication, its easy, you don't have to talk to anyone, you can hide and do something else - But it's painfully boring other than a propagation tool.
At home FT8 is the only thing I can use with a noise floor of around 8 to 9 on most days = solar panels everywhere around me and as a new ham myself I find it a little intimdating to call CQ and keep the convo going plus being limited to 10watts doesnt really get me out of aus on voice
With a society strapped to devices people are finding it too handy to use ft8. I played with ft8 and well, i prefer the excitement of screaming into the mic. Great video offering a great number of solutions.
Thanks Roger, The video certainly wasn't bagging FT8, just a suggestion or two on not forgetting about the other modes out there. Some in the comments misconstrue it. I still use FT8 all the time when the band conditions warrant it.
Yes, you put it quite clearly... We are getting that lazy posture with FT8. I know practically no on in the local area.. I don't get on repeaters anymore.... I think you have a point... I began to see the migration away from SSB back in my JT-65 days.... Now I have a crack habit with FT8 and FT4.... I will take your chat to heart.... K4NAL
Brilliant Hayden, I echo all your thoughts. Since our new licencing conditions in the UK, I have a local station who permanently sits on ft8, running a KW, which I think is a joke, he brags about how many Qs he puts in the log, but all automated and robots used. I have never used the mode for a so called contact, like you i just check it for band propagation, tge same as reverse beacon network. I call it False Transmission 8, I don't consider clicking a mouse and a 15 second burst of data a contact. I love a proper rag chew on the key, and licenced in 1993 I have never used more than 10 watts on SSB and 5 on CW, still aiming for a DX CC after a these years as a QRP operator, yet someone can claim one in an afternoon. If your love is data, get on a keyboard and have chat on rtty or ft4. Great video, thanks for the content, 73 de G0VCW.
I'd love to do SSB more, but between my limited time and limited options, I was really hoping for more frequent 2m-like nets, but on 40 or 20m. I'm more interested in that or more casual QSOs. Convos just seem to stay stuck on 80m or 2m/70cm, but 2m is mostly out for me along with my old 80/40/20m fan. I'd even go so far as to say unless the bandwidth is small, shorter wire bands should have a regular ragchew/trivia net. If during week then probably evenings. If weekend then maybe a daytime and an evening. 1-3 times a week maybe.
Completely true l, take 10 and 15 meters Zero voice activity, FT8 20 DB over, now go to 11 meters thousands of voice calls. Working exclusively 11 meters now.
Hayden, My personal view is that the general dynamics of Amateur Radio has changed over the years. From the AM days to SSB and further into RTTY and AMTOR etc. FT8 fits into an niche area of Amateur Radio where people can still enjoy the hobby without too much difficulty. I agree with you about antennas and feedlines should be optimal where possible.
The nice thing with FT Hate is as a 5W station, you’ll often get into a rare DXCC pileup provided you’re above the noise Much better chance than a 25W CW signal in a split pileup JA8Call is the rag chew implementation of FT8. My mate keeps telling me about it.
Hi folks, many thanks for your video...i fully agree what you said...here at my home the noise floor is very high, too ...unfortuanatly the digital modes are my only choice, its a no-skill mode...even though I like much ssb chats and cw...73s to all of You...tom,dl9zal
My only experience with FT8 was when I set up the rig to use it, started it, and turned away for a few seconds. When I turned back, my station and one in Cuba had worked and logged each other. I guess I could have left it unattended and it would have filled up the log!
I agree with you, Hayden, but I also think there are some other cool digital modes that are fun to use. Some are easier to listen to, like Throb, or fun to read like Hellschreiber. Folks would be surprised if they tried these, I think.
6 had opened quite a bit for us last spring and early summer. I am pretty much exclusively voice SSB and I like 146.520/29.600 FM. There were very few stations on 6 meters SSB and there were some OM's that told me that FT8 had taken over 6 meters. I honestly don't get the award thing for FT8, but do find it to be an interesting mode. Better yet JS8 Call where you are actually talking to someone.
So I totally agree with you, though someone who does CW (like my dad) might say people that don’t learn CW are lazy ! That said I’ve never learned CW !
its very simple .... YOU ARE SPOT ON ... As you, i use FT8 and PSK reporter to understand propagation, and then straight to CW :-) THANK YOU for great videos keep on the grat work ... too bad you are so far away ... thanks Niels OZ1CGQ
Honestly, I spend time on FT8. BUT that being said, i also spend 90% of my operating SSB. My pota stats show that too (3200 SSB, 200 FT8) as activator.
For anyone, 3 months of continuous practising is enough to gain a near competition-ready experience on CW. Try it, it's great fun and a very unique experience. Anyway, I fully agree with everything. Great ideas. 73!
Well, I worked out sometime ago that SSB on the hf bands is like dead repeaters on VHF and UHF. Very few people are actually talking . Time zones and time of day matter. If people in areas with lots of hams are at work or asleep then your not going to get many contacts with those areas. I'm in Perth Western Australia. I once CQ'ed at 10:30pm on 20 metres. Got one person in new Zealand saying it was well past midnight and he heard me just before going to bed. Another was in the USA and it was 10:30 am ish on a work day and they only answered to let me know I was being heard. Ditto the eastern states. They are mostly only on after work and before and after dinner for a short time. I know this because at other times the beacons come in loud and clear, but nobodies on or... they are on FT8 Regards VK6MIK
Amen, amen, and amen. Because of exactly the reasons you mentioned, I'm not really a fan of FT8. I understand why people use it, but it's not for me. It just feels like the 'Easy' button. I would say to people who have mic fright - learn CW. No mic necessary there. But, it's exactly like you say - I don't hear a whole lot of people on 10 meters CW. I like to chase DX, and I usually start on 10 meters. But, maybe you're right - I should start calling 'CQ DX', and see what happens.
I believe that little by little by making connections in ft8 then we will all connect, I can already see that from 2017 to today, almost all the cq are marked green, (qso b4), therefore it will be necessary to use other methods especially cw, or another solution will be to participate in the contests that they have programmed as in all the modes, even in ft8
I was on 10m on Monday and called CQ on CW as FT8 was active, yet I only got shorter E-skip lengths. I have been very frustrated at I really believe 10m is open, but nobody is on 10m except FT8. Strange.
so many operators run way too high power levels and don't know how to adjust the ALC level then splatter all over I tried it but it just wasn't my thing.
Two things come to mind... with the pandemic and people socially isolating, the psyche of most humans leaned toward desiring less interaction with humans, at least in any way that involves actual eye contact and actually speaking out loud... and secondly, that these days most people are raising their kids to be "children of the screen", not "children of the mic", and so actually talking to other humans has somehow become a tragic event for many people. I don't have this handicap, but go to a big box store and see how many employees walk past you and deliberately don't get eye contact or ask if you need anything... and just avoid interacting with you. It certainly wasn't this way 10 years ago. Maybe we're seeing reflections (see what I did there?) of this in the HAM world?
FT8 is great for non English speakers to work dx and make a QSO. I like JS8 and CW mostly but you have to string a sentence together on those modes. I noticed last summer in VK 6m FT8 was busy but you almost needed an appointment to get a 6m SSB or CW QSO. Good topic Hayden something to think about. regards all vk5cz ..
I don't like talking to people, and people don't like talking to me (they tell me I'm boring). Secondly the QRM at my place is S9+10 on all HF bands. I can only hear the strongest SSB signals. FT8 seems to work regardless of the QRM, so its something that I can do (if only occasionally).
I do need jump on SSB and work more on CW, but I get on the radio later in the evenings and mostly don't want to wake everyone else up. But the shack's almost done. Anyway, the other thing, using FT8 kinda like WSPR does rely on people using FT8 to interact with, so we can't all throw in the towel.
I applaud Hayden for bringing up this issue!
It always frustrates me that it seems nobody really understands what he is trying to say here. I my self have voiced this concern and received the same scorn!
An analogy is appropriate:
Say you love food, and frequently visit a particular restaurant that has become your favorite. They have all kinds of good food to chose from on the menu, and you love to try them all. As time pass, you notice that every time you visit, it seems that there is less and less options to choose from on the menu! One day you arrive, there is just ONE type of burger, that is it! Nothing else on the menu! OK, yes that burger is tasty and OK, but after eating the only choice on the menu for the longest time, you will certainly loose interest in the whole restaurant and stop visiting.
Regrettably everybody seems to get mad and stand up on their soapbox and yell: “Don't tell me what to do!” or “Stop talking #x* about my FT8!”
We are NOT telling you what mode to use. And we are not stepping on FT8!
What we are trying to express here is a feeling of loss / sorrow that it seems like there is only one ting left on the menu: FT8!
@@oriontiger3910 have made thousands of SSB and CW contacts this year alone. Ft8 is hardly the only option.
As one studying now for an amateur license in my 60s I see this very sharp social divide in the hobby and FT8 (only the most common one there are lots of other digital modes) seems to be the fulcrum of this lever. Another issue seems to be the S6 noise floor issue that nearly everyone needs to deal with. Also the old hams spent A LOT of money over the years on their shacks and a $400 64MHz 16-bit SDR and the removal of a Morse code requirement I think makes many of them feel cheated when they compare. Also ham clubs I’ve seen tend to be very closed little clubs all their new members hopes to the contrary.
I think the existing ham clubs should reach out through FT8, embrace it, and offer URLs in contacts that point to their own local club content on SNR and stealth multiband antenna solutions. I think there’s a way to “advertise” their clubs this way that will actually position local ham clubs as a desirable local resource. Maybe organize regular meetings in restaurants or bars, local club spaces, library rooms… tons of possibilities just to ‘bring the goods’ on cheaply and effectively cutting SNR, home brew discones, etc.
On the other hand from my own experience these old hams need to check their privilege. I’ve been hearing local 400W mountaintop repeater’s nets traffic about wasting employers time, yummy suppers and vacations and the personal medical details of someone’s neighbour. I very much doubt that woman had given permission for this blabbermouth to blow his own brand of hot air about her emergency surgery. This critique of old hams is not unfounded. Maybe old hams need to try Discord for some of that.
I’ve also listened as a bigshot in a meeting bragging about his recent trip took advantage of a captive audience to preach his own political take on “Americans” - this was at the first meeting I had asked to zoom in to. Not a good look on anyone ever, and an indelible bad first impression. I can be abused that way for free if I just scroll through Facebook. I don’t need to pay an annual membership fee and realize I’ve been rooked again by this 800-lb gorilla in the club shack if that’s what I want.
You’ve mentioned before that ham radio is social as well. At a certain point full grown grandfathers (often) need to start acting their age. They know better.
I love FT-8. Living in an apartment with limited power/antennas to collect qsl's and experiment has been a God send to this old guy with bad hearing.
Lots of people found a mode they really enjoy. Let them enjoy it.
I have a problem with SSB: Hardly anyone on SSB actually communicates. You don't have to ragchew, but.. my god, do something other than contesting for once. And if you have to ask me 5 times for my callsign then don't give me 59. To me, that's the same as if you had given me no signal report, because in those cases, the only thing I know is that I am everything BUT 59.
And finally, if two people are talking, or even rag chewing, don't whistle into the mic. If you wanna join break in, otherwise spin the dial.
73!
When I first started I stuck to digital modes because I was mic shy. Now I love SSB. Hope to catch you on air sometime.
I think you have one thing mistaken about the asking for the call 5 times and the 5-9 report, and most get this wrong I believe. I ask for the call repeatedly when I still copy at 5-9. Why? Well thats easy. Memory. I don't recall everything. I may have a nice clean strong readable perfect signal on you, but just like talking to my wife, I will ask her to repeat something she just said also, and there is no noise between our conversation. I simply missed a word, or misunderstood something, and am asking for clarification or a repeat. It is very easy to miss letters when copying a callsign. I don't know how many times I miss the second character of the call in a 2x?. Especially when hams use non-NATO phonetics.
I wish folks would stop picking on this as if we are not actually hearing and copying you as a true 5-9. We are. We most certainly are copying you as a 5-9. We also are dealing with some issues of our own that complicate things, and we don't need you making it harder, or telling us we aren't hearing you as such. If you are truly doubting the contact quality, call it out but, I am betting the person is just missing a character is why they ask for a repeat, otherwise copy's just fine. Hams speak fairly fast, and often have an accent that we don't always understand at first and need to hear a second time possibly to truly understand, regardless of how clean the copy was the first time. We just aren't prepared sometimes for what we hear, we are expecting one thing, and are met with another, and that confuses our brain, and slows us down, causing a loss of data.
Stop shaming folks for asking to repeat on the callsign, especially if thats all they asked you to repeat.
I'll also cede that there are way too many folks that are not giving fair and accurate RST reports, and thats doing a huge disservice to all of us. None of us can make improvements to our stations or know if something is truly wrong if every report is 5-9-9. This also has to stop. If there is something not right in my signal, let me know. if oyu honestly cant read me, let me know, if my tone is off, let me know. Trust, I am going to pick, and nit pic on your signal. That is my responsibility, and obligation. If its clean and within the lines, I say nothing, if its dirty and looks like a lot lizard got hold of the shaft, I'll tell ya so you can clean it up so the "wife" (others) dont find out!
@@NovemberOneOscarGrouch This is a common issue. I helped a friend through this. he and I talked about it afterwards, and came up with the crazy idea, that maybe there should be a rule that new licensees, should be required to spend the first 6 months with a mic in hand learning etiquette, and on air skills before being allowed sole digital use.
Kinda like the old Novice was required to have a yr before being allowed to upgrade, etc. Of course, we do know this would never fly. Too many guys would get their knickers in a bunch, and cry foul about it. It was a fun food for thought in the idea though as to what could be accomplished with the skills if such an idea was approached.
My issue with SSB is that everyone is on 20 meters and it’s extremely difficult to find a clear frequency. It would be nice if we used the other bands more often so that this was more spread out.
@JonathanKayne 20m gets the most activity because it's typically long and easy to make contacts any time of the day. Call out on 10,12,15,17 during the day and you will find people. Not as many, but they're there. At night play on 40, 80 and 160. There's always people around, but not a lot calling CQ.
Stick with it. Have patience and call out. People are there.
Honestly, I don't care about SSB/talking on HF, so digital is the way for me. SSB & digital I use on satellite.
Tough toenails. Man up
I got my general license this year. I originally started with the idea of just CW for SOTA. After some initial frustrations and failures I bought a QDX, started working FT8, and have been having a lot of fun with POTA hunting and activations. This has rekindled my desire to build a QMX radio kit and get on the air with CW. I feel a lot more confident now having the operating experience from the last several months on FT8. I see FT8 as an HF mode with minimal barriers to entry that has allowed me to experience the excitement of operating on the HF bands and learn first-hand about propagation, antennas, common mode currents, etc. This has kept me interested in the ham radio hobby so that I can take the next step.
Fully agree! Also love the QDX and QMX!
I use all modes, SSB, CW and digital. Love FT8 and so does my family at night because my loud voice is quiet.
Awesome!
Some of us at home have no choice, at my home, the noise floor is so bad that FT8 is really the only option for me. (Even CW is very hard to copy here)
Correct - that’s why I do FT8 at home and SSB portable from some quiet place outdoors. That’s what I enjoy most - sitting at the lake, having a glass of wine and some amateur radio contacts for sunset….❤
There are ways of reducing noise! Stop making excuses! Become a ham, not a call sign clicker.
@@Robbie-sk6vc Really? Not when you live in an apartment building, especially a high rise. I completely shut off all power in my apartment, used chokes and other suggestions and my noise floor did not change one db.
@@Robbie-sk6vc Wow that's quite rude, but ok I'll bite. What do you suggest? I have done the following: Filters, different antennas, different radios, better grounding, walked around with a radio to identify noise sources, the noise floor around my house on pretty much all bands is a SOLID 10 over S9 for about a good half mile around my house. (I live in an inner city) . Tried the RM noise client, tried tossing up my mobile dipole in the drive way and using my mobile rig, same noise, Worked with other HAM's to try to identify the noise floor source here. Tied to listen in to CW to see if I could use that as a mode, (no dice, it's too faint) So what else do you suggest? And as for being a real ham, I am at the park a few miles away from my house almost every evening with my mobile rig where I CAN do SSB/CW etc. (And for the record, comments like this are doing more to kill the hobby then any digital mode ever did. I know at least 2 people who literally were interested and decided not to study/take test due to comments like this. I convinced ONE of them to ignore it but we lost the 2nd)
The noise is from switching power supplies and the FCC failing to "regulate" them. I had to replace almost all of them in my home with custom-built supplies. TVs and computer monitors, battery chargers, and ethernet cables are the worst. For an apartment, a remote rig is the only real solution.
I like FT-8 for making a few quick contacts over lunch, but I miss seeing a lot of activity on PSK-31. I always enjoyed a rag chew and there seem to be fewer and fewer signals on psk. I often struggle with voice because of less than stellar hearing, but with strong signals as you say - it's totally viable a lot of the time
Well said. i have been preaching this for a long time now. ft8 has it's place, but many have become zombies to it. But in addition to being lazy, i fear for many, it's become a numbers game, "how many i got in the log today". People are just numbers now, and not people.
Everything is a numbers game. Even at work “gotta get your numbers up!”
Quite the contrary, successfully working FTA requires much more skill unlike SSB which is really nothing more than a glorified cell phone mode where a bunch of old men get to hang out and gossip and complain about their aches and pains
@@dannelson8556 i am not against ft8, or any other digi mode, in fact i mostly use digital modes. note the plural on modes, yes there is more than FT8!! To name some, Q65, Olivia,ROS,PSK31, JS8CALL, RTTY, MT63 ect. i use them all. but i am the only one on the band doing so, while. i see the s9+ spike on the ft8 frequency. my problem is with the overuse of ft8, to the detriment of all the other modes, including analog voice.
@@43PR50 bingo. This is where ham must go, if we are to keep it. The bands are not ours to keep, so we must make them useful, or new users will not bother.
@@43PR50are you on QO-100?
Thank you so much Hayden, been waiting for so long for one of you youtubers actually address the biggest issues with ft8 instead of encouraging people to use it during these times of good propagation like most of the other youtubers do. Thank you
I’m lazy. I got my license in 1977, then had children sold my gear and was off and radio until 2022 when I retired. Finding out how much the technology has changed with FT8 and wanting to get as many DX stations as I can during this period of solar max, I feel like I’m playing catch up in DXCC and WAS. So yes I’m doing mostly FT8 in about 2 years I have WAS in 80-10 meters and DXCC on 40 -10 meters, with 195 confirmed DX entities on QRZ. I have over 26,000 confirmed QSO’s on QRZ. That isn’t doable on SSB or CW modes. Yes, I’m lazy, but I have achieved quite a list DX stations and States. I do VARA HF another digital texting mode , which is keyboard to keyboard communication on HF. It’s much more time consuming, but enjoyable in a real communication process takes place. I SSB with friends on 40 and 80 meters, I FM on the local 2 meter repeater, and Digital FM using my DMR Anytone handheld and my PiStar hotspot. So I’m not apposed to using other modes. But most of my HAM time is FT8… I’m lazy but I enjoy my hobby with the new digital mods that are available now. 73
If people want to use FT8, they're going to. If they want to use SSB or CW, they're going to do those things as well. Before I had my EFHW high enough, I couldn't do SSB because my noise floor was too high and FT8 was all I could do -being able to make contacts in Antarctica from Seattle, is frankly what kept me interested in the hobby.
FT8 paired with PSKreporter is also a great propagation tool to see if it's even worth trying SSB calls.
PNW, 7-land is tough!
A decent CW op can work signals about as weak as FT8. And it's much faster. Start practicing, brother. It's worth it. Let's get that 6m VK - W6 land QSO!
I’m beaming that way everyday waiting! I expect it to lift in the next few months 👍
In my experience, I have been able to make a JS8-Call (based on FT-8 modulation) when no CW could be heard. Fact is I have been able to make contacts with JS8-Call even through woodpecker interference!
@@gabrielsierra6890 are you sure there was a CW signal there to hear? I think that's partly Hayden's point - if folks are only trying FT8, that's all you'll get them on. The JT modes are very capable, but so is CW when people choose to use it. My intent is not to knock the digital modes but to instead encourage operating on other modes that are similarly capable with even less equipment complexity. It's very fun and rewarding to work weak signal contacts on minimalist CW equipment.
@@K6ARKYou and K4SWL got me into CW…it is now my primary mode for portable. FT8 is great, but I do feel more accomplished doing CW. Just need to finally be able to hear you up in AK when you’re doing SOTA.
@@Aramalas heck yeah! It can happen with the right conditions. Saturday evening, I worked a friend who was visiting Juneau on 20m. He was rocking a KH1 with the silly little whip antenna!
The problem with the current solar cycle is that even though the numbers we all want to see are often way up near or well over 200, the A/K indexes end up being high and really there isn't anything going special about the propagation. 2-3 years ago I was working all sorts of DX on FT8/FT4, well before the peak. And since then the bands are "garbage" in comparison because there are always solar disturbances and high A/K numbers.
That is what I have found too. I remember 1957 and 2002 and you could do a lot with SSB (or AM) even QRP.
OMG! This is exactly my experience! All the chat about solar maximum being great has been absolute BS. The bands are utter crap at the moment. Last autumn I could work the world at will - it's a struggle this summer to get close to that experience.
FT8 has its place. But I do prefer OLIVIA, JS8CALL & VARA HF for keyboard to keyboard comms. I struggle with SSB, but that's more my limited 10w output. Looking towards the standard license soon.
FT8 will save your pota activation when the bands suck ae4xo
How do you know the bands suck? Is it there are no other persons, or that the propagation is just not going anywhere, in which case wouldn't the latter suggest that everyone is in the same situation, and then yes, I certainly agree, FT8 is designed for such.
Otherwise, not everyday is an FT8 day. In fact, that would mean, in almost certainty 99.9% of the time, it is not time for FT8, there is just no PHOINE activity.
In conclusion that would mean there should be no FT8 activity most of the time but in rare occasions or in specific occasions of research.
This is where ALE would benefit Amateurs. Amateurs would find out that the bands are open, and what freqs to use. They wouldnt be hunting and pecking at what they find, they would know without doubt what bands are open and to what parts of the world.
How do i know? When I have to call cq more than 30 times in a few hours. When I don't see anything on the scope. When I don't hear the net controls that are usually there . Those are w few ways I can tell
@@ae4xo hahahaha, no! What you described is a normal occurrence for everyone of us, that happens multiple times a day. No band is so stable as to produce reliable communications throughout the day for us every time we desire to use it. You just have to suck it up and remember you aren't that entitled!
It means the you need to wait a moment and see if the band will change and favor you again, which it may, or may not. you probably need to switch bands though.
Calling CQ 30 times in a few hrs, is nothing.
All you have done here is demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of propagation, and state that you are adamant that you stay on the band and not learn how to use your tools properly.
thats the magic of ft8 and digital. You maynot see anything on the water fall , but they are there
What about hams, like me, that do not like to talk?
SSTV is what I do. Lots of fun @ 14.230
Then FT8 is good for you, but you may also enjoy JS8, it's similar but you can have a keyboard to keyboard QSO and exchange much more info.👍
@@russellclarke6855 And there are tons of other things you can do with JS8 besides QSOs. I love to just poke around and see what antenna and power people are using. JS8 is a better propagation tool to me than FT8.
Then why did you get a license even?
RUclips is the ham radio killer!
Hi Hayden, the other night I was listening on 11m and EU was very strong, I then QSYED to 10m CW and with only low power was working EU stations at 599, then QSYED to SSB and worked a friend of mine in the UK with S7 signals, he and I were the only ones on the band (looking at waterfall) ... 73, from Darwin De VK8NSB
Electronic communication has removed a lot of personal interaction. When TV came out people stopped visiting each other, stopped going out and stayed home. The internet has continued this further. Now everybody is communicating and nobody is speaking. Ham radio digital modes are just an extension of this phenomenon.
People aren't communicating here, computers are! Why get a license to do that?
@@Robbie-sk6vcMaybe people got licensed before there was an internet.
@Robbie-sk6vc There is also a technical side of ham radio, where people used to build and maintain their own equipment.
Please dont define our hobby for all of us. This is what makes the HAM hobby so diverse. Many HAMs are introverts and doesnt want to have "personal interaction" - "before computers" the introverts were on CW. Now we are on FT8. I love my hobby, and I love FT8. Please dont judge how I exercise my hobby. Thanks and 73 de SM4XDJ.
Some of us can't use anything BUT digital modes. My tinnitus makes it very difficult to understand any kind of voice-based mode. Don't gatekeep, k?
Ft8 gives armchair dx’er a reason to exist when the going on the bands are tough.
I get this perspective, but I really enjoy FT8 when paired with Grid Tracker. I'm also really busy right now, and FT8 allows me to flip on the radio and make some contacts during short slow-periods at work when I'm able to split my attention. Just now, from Colorado, I made FT8 contacts to New Zealand, Australia, and Africa on 10 meters. Then I made a contact on 15m to Japan and suddenly five DX stations were contacting me when I wasn't even calling CQ. It was really fun(!), even tho I didn't "talk" to anyone. Probably only my 5th contact with Australia during the current solar cycle.
It seems like you are assigning a personal preference for SSB as if it should be the same for everyone else. If not for the digital modes and CW I would not do radio. I am certain there are others just like me because I have heard them say so. I have a room set up that has all my office space, radio equipment, and electronics in one space. While I am working during the day, I can also be doing FT8 without the two conflicting with each other. I can't stop working to do an SSB contact. I would not likely do it even if I could. My interest is seeing where the signals are going to and coming from as well as how it changes over time. A contact is a contact. I have no interest in general chit-chat about the weather or how someone's colonoscopy exam went.
😭
@@1912rider Grow up, change your panties and stop whining. Time for you to be a big girl.
The way it is. Get off ft8
Bingo, and also bravo. 👍 That's where ham is going, if we can keep it.
Ft8 has been a game changer for sure. For me ft8 is perfect for late night of dxing on 30m. Chasing dx is a skill on ft8. Great vid, great content tnx 73
Clicking a callsign is a skill now? If true, than we're done for!
I don't think FT8/4 is a game changer. Rather, an operating mode like any other. But one thing is clear: when people no longer speak or write to each other (unlike VarAC Mode, for example), a lot of knowledge is lost. Because how should an exchange of experiences or a discussion take place? You should always keep this in mind if you only do FT8 instead of doing a proper QSO.
Greetings Jochen DH1KJ
Good video, I have used many of the digital modes, I have really appreciated them and enjoyed using them. I stopped using any digital modes at beginning of 2023 because I wanted to make more use of SSB and really enjoy those contacts, I have no plan at present to use any digital, I think it’s the way that the hobby is and that it will evolve over time, the propagation I would agree with other comments has not been anything like it was back in the 80’s. Even if a band appears dead I will always put out CQ and listen
This topic came up locally in the course of the US Field Day contesting. 10/6m were all but dead on anything other than FT8/FT4. I made a suggestion to the ARRL that they factor balance into their scoring. They already do with a bonus for QRP and for CW. I think what you are implicitly arguing for is that balance. FT8/FT4 are fine, they have their place, but let's have some balance. I wonder if contesting is partly responsible for the takeover of those two modes? Maybe other contests could also approach rewarding balance across modes.
AG8D / Dominic
Eh, let people do what they want. I wish JS8call was more popular. Not that much activity and should be more enjoyable.
it could be. I never see much more than the health checks, but I haven't checked in about 6 months. tried leaving messages for folks, but never get a reply.
I've used FT8 to gauge 6m was open the Central America. Sent "go SSB" and worked TG9AJR with a 100w. Yep, go SSB!
I’ve worked Juan on FT8, but signals haven’t been strong enough for SSB. That’s awesome!
How did you coordinate the frequency? Or did you just look for signals on a waterfall? Or am I stupid and there’s a SSB calling frequency for 6m? 😮
@@SMShannon55 I think Allan just sent "go SSB" in the free text bit of FT8 and perhaps he moved to the international DX calling frequency which is 50.110 MHz.
Trying to remember, either the calling frequency or nominated frequency with free text. Either way, when you see strong FT8 signals, try your luck, "SSB 50.110" ......
It's the same issue with people being reliant on internet for digital voice. It has taken a lot people away from using pure RF communications.
You can do Digital Voice with RF! Take DMR, C4-FM, D-Star, etc... You don't need internet for those, maybe for linking, but even voice rpts are linking with echolink or IRLP.
I think you misunderstand how these digital modes work. You certainly can use all of these digital modes purely over RF. D-Star, DMR, C4FM, all of them can be done over RF without the internet.
As well, even if you could not, these modes could be piggy-backed on an ARDEN system, or other MESH network, which is also a pure RF network as well in some areas, and fully simulates the commercial internet. It may carry anything the internet does for our amateur radio needs, with great reliability.
I know that one of the big uses of FT8 is to get away from their high urban noise floor. The issue I saw with my old location was that the higher the solar cycle, the more my noise crept up. So I don't think you can expect people to put the strain on their ears just because the solar conditions are good. I think a LOT of the proliferation of FT8 is the increase in this modern society of noisy electronics from your neighbors. Having moved away from a lot of my noise generators, I use voice modes a lot more and FT8 rarely. And of course, add that to people in compromised locations, apartments, HOAs and I think you add to the number of FT8 operators. 30 years ago when I started, my noise floor was much lower and my use of voice and CW was much more prolific. There are people in the category you highlight but I am not convinced that is the majority.
Thanks Don, insightful and I agree regarding high noise locations, 100% it’s ever increasing!
Oops I forgot to add, my location isn’t the best or worst for noise - kind of in between, but I noticed a lot of loud signals on FT8, which to me just says, try SSB. But obviously everyone’s MMV!
This is my issue.
Due to noise level and some antenna restrictions I almost never operate from home but portable somewhere outdoors. But occasionally I do some ft8 from home, that’s fine.
During cycle 22, I worked a LOT of Europe on a daily basis from the eastern US on 10m while mobile. I worked thousands of stations worldwide on PSK31 from California during Cycle 23. I had quite a few ragchews while mobile (driving commercially) on 20m during 24, but nothing like 23. I took the HF rig out of my truck during the bottom of 24-25, and had a blast on D-Star. (I still do.) I fired up the HF rig for the first time in a while in mid-July. Very little voice activity on 20m, and put the radio back in storage.
I got my license just so I can do FT8 and other digital modes. I know some of my ham friends also work digital exclusively. For discussions about ham tech things etc, we use FB groups. Digital communication do attract it's people to ham culture.
While I like FT8 because it is a watering hole set of frequencies to see what the ionosphere is doing, I have noticed that digital chat modes have been picking up a bit. I have been having more chat QSOs on modes like PSK31 and Olivia 2/250. It would be nice to see more chat mode activity, for sure.
First of all, thank you for your channel - the content is excellent. Re FT-8, I've been a ham for 43 years. For the first 20 years or so, I focused on CW, as my 'modest' station with a TS-830 (later a TS-450 and then a KX-3/TS-590) with a dipole or a vertical and 100W seemed to work the 'difficult ones' only on CW. I loved working CW, earned DXCC-CW and worked phone on occasion too. While still a KA2, I started using FT-8 and ended up with 177 countries over 40 years. Not DXCC Honor Roll, but lots of fun hours on the radio. I moved to VK3 2 years ago and have a S9+ noise level on 40m and somewhat less, but significant, noise levels on the higher bands. I rarely hear SSB and CW stations - not sure if it is my noise level or changes in operator habits, though there is plenty of activity on FT-8. With my TS-590 and an end-fed half wave, I've worked 200 countries, so I have worked more countries on FT-8 in two years than I did using CW/SSB (and some FT8) over 40 years. You are right -- FT-8 arguably does not take the same amount of skill and is less 'personal' than SSB and CW can be, though SSB and CW contacts can be pretty generic also. Ideally, we would all have access to all three modes (and more!). However, as only FT-8 seems to work at my current QTH, it is much better than nothing for me.
Also, in my experience, all bands are not 'open' all the time and PSK Reporter (using FT-8) is a great way to confirm this. That's one aspect of FT-8 I really love -- the real-time feedback that one gets around band conditions. That said, if you are running 1,000W into 5 element directional antennas, maybe bands are open more often than at my more modest station.
So, I agree that it would be ideal for hams to operate across a variety of modes. But for those like me that are only able to work FT-8 from their locations, it's much better than nothing.
Well, although the numbers appear to be high, the propagation is NOT there. If a ham has only been licensed for about 10 years, they have never seen good propagation. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, you could with little effort work 100 countries on 10m on a weekend using ssb/cw. 6 metres was hot too. The idea that everyone has gone to FT8 just is not true. Look at the automated beacons. They are not being heard. I have a 10m beacon that runs 24/7, and this "cycle" is one of the worse I can remember. Tune through where the beacons are, and they are not being heard. There are hundreds of beacons operating 24/7, and they are not being heard...
This is a strange cycle. I remember when sunspot activity was good for reception, not any more.
The prop was way better last winter/early spring here in central USA. I was working European DX on SSB daily every morning and Japanese stations most evenings. Summer hit and it got bad. Lower bands have been marginally ok at night and early mornings. Even had some pretty good 6 meter openings.
I was first licensed in the late 80s as KB8NAT, and I remember making quite a few DX contacts from Michigan to Australia and Japan. I was inactive during the intervening cycles. But I'm getting ready to jump back in soon. It's interesting that many in this thread are saying that the propagation is poor. I've been watching a lot of recent videos of POTA (parks on the air) and SOTA (summits on the air), and most of those stations are QRP and with lightweight vertical masts or slopers. They seem to be having good luck, both on SSB and CW. Most of these QSOs were on 20 and 40 meters. 73 de Gary W5PAZ
I often wonder about 10m beacons. You’ll hear a few, but the crazy openings haven’t been there in as far as the 10m beacons that are any significant distance away
The D layer seems to have been making 20m pretty quiet by mid morning until the sun starts to set.
One thing we all have plenty of is hash from every switch mode power supply in the immediate surrounds.
@@MidlifeRenaissanceMan I have been doing a 10m beacon for 30yrs. I have never seen it this poor. As far as local noise, I highly recommend something like a MFJ1026. They work well, you just need to be patient setting them...
When I was working night shift and on my nights off of work, I'd get out to the shack and start on FT8 around 2am in the morning. While monitoring PSK Reporter on the interwebs, I keep an eye on where my signal is the strongest.
After making contacts on FT8 and other data modes, I'd move to SSB on 20 and 40m, sometimes on 17 and 15m. Those higher bands sometimes stays open late at night. One early morning on 20m SSB, I've make a contact in the middle on VK from my QTH in East Tennessee. That contact was just over 10k miles short path.
W4ISB
Thanks for your video 👍old school is the best i guess brings back a lot of good memories
For some like myself, being in an apartment with limited antennas, ft8 allows me to work the world where I cannot hear or use CW or SSB. I use it and enjoy it, no matter the naysayers. As for tradition, at one time everything is new, so Traditions are built over time. 20 years from now, FT8 will be considered a tradition possibly. Just like rtty was 50 yeas ago. It's all about having fun and enjoying the hobby, not so e gatekeepers who want everyone t do it their way. Thank you, Hayden, for your videos and ideas!
One is entitled to an opinion.
Mine is that the aspect of those with disabilities FT8 is a viable option. Perhaps the only one.
Also it enforces a protocol and obviates bad behaviour, aka LIDS.
I love FT8 and I love to talk on SSB. I use FT8 extensively for quickly testing and comparing antennas. Within a couple of minutes I can see on the map hundreds of accurate signal reports from all around the world. Using voice or CW, this kind of data could not be collected.
100%!
You seem to forget that QRM is a constant PITA. My noise floor is horrendous and I can often see S5+ noise - how many stations am I missing?!
Also, FT8 is brilliant for DX Expeditions - no more pile ups.
FT8 is also great from the perspective that I can talk to my family while still getting stations in the log.
I don't enjoy battling for an SSB contact. Life is too short.
You do you.
FT8 allows DX operation without spending $20,000 on a tower, beam, linear amplifier. I am walled in by landscaping and buildings and normally cannot be heard on SSB. CW doesn’t seem to get out either.
That's not true, in the past few weeks and months I've worked on a few stations on 10m that only had QRP 10w or less and mostly only vertical antennas. Including some from South America. Where there is a will there is a way, whoever does not call will not be heard. 73 Jochen DH1KJ
@@jochenkrebs9685 exactly..dont need a beam and amp to get your DXCC on ssb.
Instead of declaring FT8 to be a problem why not consider WHY it's still so popular? 1. Non-English speaking DX hams or those who are uncomfortable with speaking English can easily make DX contacts. 2 So can hearing-impaired hams. 3. Hams who are introverts (we do exist) find it fatiguing to key up a mic and jibber-jabber. FT8 lets us make lots of contacts without having to say anything. (this may also be why some hams rarely get on the air, preferring to build things and experiment. "The hobby of 1,000 hobbies.") 4. FT8 allows you to silently make contacts without disturbing others in your household. 5. It's easy to make DX contacts without having to struggle to understand what the DX ham is saying due to an accent or speaking very fast (like my DMR friend Ian in west Scotland for example.) 6. Most importantly, FT8 propagates better and further than SSB. If you have HamClock, enable VOACAP DE-DX in one of the top panes and compare FT8 to SSB for range and coverage at the same RF power level which you can do by clicking on one of the band numbers. (Click on it again to close the propagation map and return to the normal map view.) 7. A lot of the FT8-bashing boils down to the same thing: "Stop liking what I don't like!" They want those who prefer digital modes to get on SSB just so the bashers have more people to talk to in their own preferred mode, which is rather selfish IMO.
This is a perceptive observation. I’m new to HF stuff (studying for general) and new to ham radio overall. I went up to a local mountain and set up a wire and my g90. Just as I was beginning to get out and make some voice contacts, someone comes up and sets a hammock up on the tree right next to my antenna… no more than 20ft away.
Admittedly, I got a little shy, so I flipped over to trying to figure out ft8. Managed to make some VERY distant contacts, as well as one not at all distant contact in my same grid square!
I can see the draw to using exclusively ft8, because of how easy it was to get such a distant contact.
But: before switching to digital, I heard a station calling CQ that sounded like a non-native English speaker… I got excited.. “maybe I’m reaching another country!”
I tried responding, and that station heard me, asked me to repeat, but then said “sorry, my friend. The band isn’t quite clear enough for the contact. 73!” I now have a goal of reaching South America on voice!
So yeah: ft8 has its place, but I see the need to use it WITH the other modes! (Cw is also on my list!)
Do you know what I hear?
What some hams said when SSB became a thing "Oh no! This new mode called Sideband will kill Ham Radio. MUST ONLY USE AM."
You poor little puppy. Let others do what they like and get used to it. FT8 is here. Too bad if you don't like it.
@@HamRadioDX Why so negative then? Don't be such a downer on digital modes. Entire generations now see Ham Radio as a hobby for old men because they don't like computers and think parts of the hobby are "too easy". By the way, the same was said about AM over CW as I wrote about your plug for SSB over digital. It is that "my favorite mode is better than your favorite mode" attitude that is slowly killing the hobby. Let all the modes be used by those who like them and stop publishing tripe like you have in this video.
Digital is cheating. Digital corrects for things you as an operator are not skilled enough to account for. I'm out.
@@randykitchleburger2780 Ok. Whatever. The same was said about SSB over AM and before that about AM over CW... You cheating yet?
The first thought that comes to me is: let people operate the way they like. If they like doing FT8, anyone elses experience and opinion of the mode doesn't mean anything. The second thing that comes to mind is the fact that sad hams have ruined phone and, to an extent, even CW. Doing FT8, you are less likely to have some sad ham complain to you or say something dumb while you are operating.
The majority of my contacts have been phone but I have done more FT8 over the last couple of years because I haven't wanted to deal with the sad hams. I started doing CW as well but I got discouraged because so many operators wouldn't slow down for me.
The old elmer rule of if you don't like what you hear just spin the dial, don't engage. Well I kept spinning till I got to cw and digital and have been happy camper. It ain't just about band conditions as to why phone is dead. But small pistol, low investment and portable make the cw/digital modes always more attractive no matter the band conditions.
Good points. The problem I'm having is the the standard FT8 frequencies have become so crowded I've had to start using my amp at about 400W to finish QSOs at +6dB SNR. That's a perfectly a workable CW signal hence defeating the purpose of a weak signal mode.
Excellent video. It seems like phone, CW, and other digital modes are scarce as well. I remember when PSK31 was easy to find and today not so much. Would love to have some PSK or OLIVIA QSOs again.
I tried to get on FT8 for two years with my G90 but was unsuccessful, even after accumulating a bucketful of toroids, digirig, CE-19, jumper cables, etc. Got an iCom 7300 about two months ago and am finally able to play on FT8. My time available is limited to less than an hour a day, and I spend the first 40 minutes or so FT8ing and then go to SSB, mainly on the 20-meter band. I've had no luck at CQing on that band at the time I'm available (1300-1500 UTC). I can occasionally log into a net that I'm a member of, or answer someone else's CQ, but no luck with my own CQ so far, at usually 50w or 100w strength. Gotta keep trying though.
Wow! I love you from posting your comments about ft8. I've never used FT8 or ft4 I've used packet radio also psk 31. I found that a very useful mode when your qrp portable doing a Sota summits on the air I first tried PSK 31
Thanks! I advocate for all the modes to be used! Some must have taken it the wrong way. Cheers!
Great video really well said, me personally im a SSB only operator love the challenge of working stations and the whole point i got into the hobby is to talk to real people not play on a keyboard, but each to their own i guess. And like you said i hear alot of strong stations on the digital modes that probably could use cw or ssb. Also you never know if the bands open unless you call.
A mode that allows the common person to work the world on a limited budget -Great!
No need for amplifiers -Great!
Useable in dense, restrictive environments -Great!
Leverages the Internet generational familiarity to make Radio interesting to non hams -Great!
We recently demonstrated Ham operations to a group of youth (scouts) aged 7 through teenagers. Almost nothing interested them until we ran FT8. This led to eager questions, operating and then voice contacts after they were comfortable. Digital operation may be a factor on keeping Amateur radio relevant to the next generation. I don't think it will harm anything, just as removing CW requirements for licenses did not kill CW. I am excited to see what comes next.
Sorry i did not mention why I'm weak station, qrp. 10w to 100w POUT, ground mounted vertical in-between trees and total height is lower than my gutter,so I only have North +/- 5 degrees. 2m 70cm SHF are near impossible for me as strata title rules antenna installation
What timing..... I have just sat in the shack. I normally leave the radio on 6m FT8. Some great signals, however the latest Gridtracker update shows E's up to about 700 mile. Nothing on SSB tho as I reacted to the strong signals by switching there. The cluster shows only FT8 on 6M too. Spot on comments Hayden. Use all the modes that you are able too, show your own diversity within the hobby. 2E0IGD
I do a lot of POTA these days, i like my gear to be man portable. FT8 helps getting to the threshold especially when propagation is not ideal and also it helps reaching dx stations; all with cheap equipment. I prefer SSB, i think is more fun but it happened more than a few times that no one was responding to my calls (or i wasn't able to hear them) for hours even, it sucks when it happens. I rarely have all day to do an activation so being able to get the contacts quickly keeps the activity enjoyable for me (and the poor souls that may have come with me 😂).
A local friend and I had just this conversation last night on DMR!
Sometimes I get bored with FT8, but one think I like, coupled with GridTracker, is to see how the bands fluctuate so much. A band like15M will be flat, and then suddenly spike up for a little bit, and then settle back down. It gives a real-time picture of how the bands are behaving. I do like the challenge of chasing DX on CW, though the speeds can be dizzying!
Thanks for sharing! K3SLH
You make some good points here Hayden but let's look at things from a different perspective. I love radio and have done for many years but unfortunately I'm now extremely hard of hearing with only 8% natural hearing remaining and if it hadn't been for FT-8 my ham radio days would have finished around 6 years ago. I love SSB and talking to people but for me it's now almost imposible. Even a simple phone call for me is a struggle. So love it or hate it there are people out there like me who really don't have a lot of choice but to use FT-8 and other digital modes. CW never worked for me. I spent years trying to learn CW but it just couldn't get it to work. SSB contesting is out of the question for me now with so many people who want to rattle off call signs and number far too quickly and not using the International Phonetic Alphabet. Yes FT-8 does get a little bit boring at times but it's either that or pack up the shack and leave ham radio for good.
Great to hear your perspective on things Robert!
One of the best things one can do to eliminate noise is to use batteries, charge them while you don't use your radio and then use them. There's a lot of noise in the current due to all the low quality power supplies. RF antenna filters also help a lot.
A very good point Hayden. You may want to provide some feedback to the WIA 40m band plan proposal.
Fully agree. Matter of fact the coming couple of months will bring great opportunity to talk the world on SSB if you give the contests a chance. Great video!
I really hope that the higher bands open up more - looking forward to it!
protip: check the FT8 frequency on whatever band - if you hear FT8, the band is open.
Totally agree. A guy was debating this with me at a hamfest saying it is great for deaf hams. I said there's plenty of digital modes that offer more than just a qsl and signal report. I think there's this pokemon attitude "gotta catch em all" when we should be focusing on the social side of the hobby. That said, I'm not saying we should stifle it - ft8, wspr etc all have their place especially when bands are marginal and you want to know what's open but there's zero skill involved
Throwing rocks at the hornets nest, brave man. I do my part by activating parks as I have S8 local noise.
FT8 is just another mode, for me it's all about running it for an hour on auto and seeing where my 50/70/144MHz VHF signals are being received so I can optimise calling CQ on SSB or Meteor Scatter Modes. I agree, its over-used in place of more social forms of communication, its easy, you don't have to talk to anyone, you can hide and do something else - But it's painfully boring other than a propagation tool.
At home FT8 is the only thing I can use with a noise floor of around 8 to 9 on most days = solar panels everywhere around me and as a new ham myself I find it a little intimdating to call CQ and keep the convo going plus being limited to 10watts doesnt really get me out of aus on voice
CW will work DX for you.
With a society strapped to devices people are finding it too handy to use ft8. I played with ft8 and well, i prefer the excitement of screaming into the mic. Great video offering a great number of solutions.
Thanks Roger,
The video certainly wasn't bagging FT8, just a suggestion or two on not forgetting about the other modes out there. Some in the comments misconstrue it. I still use FT8 all the time when the band conditions warrant it.
Yes, you put it quite clearly... We are getting that lazy posture with FT8. I know practically no on in the local area.. I don't get on repeaters anymore.... I think you have a point... I began to see the migration away from SSB back in my JT-65 days.... Now I have a crack habit with FT8 and FT4.... I will take your chat to heart.... K4NAL
Brilliant Hayden, I echo all your thoughts. Since our new licencing conditions in the UK, I have a local station who permanently sits on ft8, running a KW, which I think is a joke, he brags about how many Qs he puts in the log, but all automated and robots used. I have never used the mode for a so called contact, like you i just check it for band propagation, tge same as reverse beacon network. I call it False Transmission 8, I don't consider clicking a mouse and a 15 second burst of data a contact. I love a proper rag chew on the key, and licenced in 1993 I have never used more than 10 watts on SSB and 5 on CW, still aiming for a DX CC after a these years as a QRP operator, yet someone can claim one in an afternoon. If your love is data, get on a keyboard and have chat on rtty or ft4. Great video, thanks for the content, 73 de G0VCW.
I'd love to do SSB more, but between my limited time and limited options, I was really hoping for more frequent 2m-like nets, but on 40 or 20m. I'm more interested in that or more casual QSOs. Convos just seem to stay stuck on 80m or 2m/70cm, but 2m is mostly out for me along with my old 80/40/20m fan. I'd even go so far as to say unless the bandwidth is small, shorter wire bands should have a regular ragchew/trivia net. If during week then probably evenings. If weekend then maybe a daytime and an evening. 1-3 times a week maybe.
Completely true l, take 10 and 15 meters Zero voice activity, FT8 20 DB over, now go to 11 meters thousands of voice calls. Working exclusively 11 meters now.
Hayden, My personal view is that the general dynamics of Amateur Radio has changed over the years. From the AM days to SSB and further into RTTY and AMTOR etc.
FT8 fits into an niche area of Amateur Radio where people can still enjoy the hobby without too much difficulty.
I agree with you about antennas and feedlines should be optimal where possible.
The nice thing with FT Hate is as a 5W station, you’ll often get into a rare DXCC pileup provided you’re above the noise
Much better chance than a 25W CW signal in a split pileup
JA8Call is the rag chew implementation of FT8. My mate keeps telling me about it.
Hi folks, many thanks for your video...i fully agree what you said...here at my home the noise floor is very high, too ...unfortuanatly the digital modes are my only choice, its a no-skill mode...even though I like much ssb chats and cw...73s to all of You...tom,dl9zal
Thanks Tom!
I Sarted CW contacts more often. But still make some FT contacts.
Miss psk31 and rtty those are getting more rare to see on the bands
My only experience with FT8 was when I set up the rig to use it, started it, and turned away for a few seconds. When I turned back, my station and one in Cuba had worked and logged each other. I guess I could have left it unattended and it would have filled up the log!
I agree with you, Hayden, but I also think there are some other cool digital modes that are fun to use. Some are easier to listen to, like Throb, or fun to read like Hellschreiber. Folks would be surprised if they tried these, I think.
6 had opened quite a bit for us last spring and early summer. I am pretty much exclusively voice SSB and I like 146.520/29.600 FM. There were very few stations on 6 meters SSB and there were some OM's that told me that FT8 had taken over 6 meters. I honestly don't get the award thing for FT8, but do find it to be an interesting mode. Better yet JS8 Call where you are actually talking to someone.
So I totally agree with you, though someone who does CW (like my dad) might say people that don’t learn CW are lazy ! That said I’ve never learned CW !
Me neither, I really need to dedicate time to learning it. It's one of the things I really want to do!
its very simple .... YOU ARE SPOT ON ... As you, i use FT8 and PSK reporter to understand propagation, and then straight to CW :-) THANK YOU for great videos keep on the grat work ... too bad you are so far away ... thanks Niels OZ1CGQ
After each of your 'frustration' comments you said '...and there's nothing with that....' You do your thing... we'll do ours. 73
Try VARAC (VARA Chat)
I’ve tried ssb. Its terrible. 😅
I have the impression, that there is not less CW/SSB activity than in 2002. But there is maybe less other (non-FT8) digimode activity.
Honestly, I spend time on FT8. BUT that being said, i also spend 90% of my operating SSB. My pota stats show that too (3200 SSB, 200 FT8) as activator.
For anyone, 3 months of continuous practising is enough to gain a near competition-ready experience on CW. Try it, it's great fun and a very unique experience.
Anyway, I fully agree with everything. Great ideas.
73!
I'll definitely be putting aside time to learn CW more fully soon!
Perhaps ''complacent' would be a better term than lazy. Agree with your take.
Complacent would’ve been a better choice of words 👍 thanks mate
Nope, lets call it what it is! LAZY!
@@Robbie-sk6vc Let's call you what you are: unconsidered, reactionary, and judgemental.
Well, I worked out sometime ago that SSB on the hf bands is like dead repeaters on VHF and UHF. Very few people are actually talking .
Time zones and time of day matter. If people in areas with lots of hams are at work or asleep then your not going to get many contacts with those areas.
I'm in Perth Western Australia.
I once CQ'ed at 10:30pm on 20 metres. Got one person in new Zealand saying it was well past midnight and he heard me just before going to bed. Another was in the USA and it was 10:30 am ish on a work day and they only answered to let me know I was being heard.
Ditto the eastern states. They are mostly only on after work and before and after dinner for a short time.
I know this because at other times the beacons come in loud and clear, but nobodies on or... they are on FT8
Regards VK6MIK
Amen, amen, and amen. Because of exactly the reasons you mentioned, I'm not really a fan of FT8. I understand why people use it, but it's not for me. It just feels like the 'Easy' button. I would say to people who have mic fright - learn CW. No mic necessary there. But, it's exactly like you say - I don't hear a whole lot of people on 10 meters CW. I like to chase DX, and I usually start on 10 meters. But, maybe you're right - I should start calling 'CQ DX', and see what happens.
I believe that little by little by making connections in ft8 then we will all connect, I can already see that from 2017 to today, almost all the cq are marked green, (qso b4), therefore it will be necessary to use other methods especially cw, or another solution will be to participate in the contests that they have programmed as in all the modes, even in ft8
I was on 10m on Monday and called CQ on CW as FT8 was active, yet I only got shorter E-skip lengths. I have been very frustrated at I really believe 10m is open, but nobody is on 10m except FT8. Strange.
so many operators run way too high power levels and don't know how to adjust the ALC level then splatter all over I tried it but it just wasn't my thing.
Two things come to mind... with the pandemic and people socially isolating, the psyche of most humans leaned toward desiring less interaction with humans, at least in any way that involves actual eye contact and actually speaking out loud... and secondly, that these days most people are raising their kids to be "children of the screen", not "children of the mic", and so actually talking to other humans has somehow become a tragic event for many people. I don't have this handicap, but go to a big box store and see how many employees walk past you and deliberately don't get eye contact or ask if you need anything... and just avoid interacting with you. It certainly wasn't this way 10 years ago. Maybe we're seeing reflections (see what I did there?) of this in the HAM world?
100 percent. agree. Just doing ft8 is limiting yourself. Some of you need to get out of your comfort zone.
Some of us can only do FT8 as the other modes don't work for people with compromised setups.
FT8 is great for non English speakers to work dx and make a QSO. I like JS8 and CW mostly but you have to string a sentence together on those modes. I noticed last summer in VK 6m FT8 was busy but you almost needed an appointment to get a 6m SSB or CW QSO. Good topic Hayden something to think about. regards all vk5cz ..
I don't like talking to people, and people don't like talking to me (they tell me I'm boring). Secondly the QRM at my place is S9+10 on all HF bands. I can only hear the strongest SSB signals. FT8 seems to work regardless of the QRM, so its something that I can do (if only occasionally).
I do need jump on SSB and work more on CW, but I get on the radio later in the evenings and mostly don't want to wake everyone else up. But the shack's almost done. Anyway, the other thing, using FT8 kinda like WSPR does rely on people using FT8 to interact with, so we can't all throw in the towel.