"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Protoss, I fear no storm, for my marines have 90 base health and rising." -Raynor, Backwater Sheriff
@CtG, when using Raynor's "Rebel Raider" skill tree, you should always get medics since they can repair mech units for free, you would have saved alot of minerals and units that way.
In my opinion, Backwater Sheriff is the easiest to play, one of the most powerful playstyles, provided the enemies don't just drop in when you have full army are on the other side of the map. Rebel Raiders is a bit late-game, but when completed, it's possibly even more powerful then Backwater Sheriff. Once you get full 200/200 with air units, you can basically spam your Hyperion and Banshee Airstrike, one right after the other disappears, ensuring that you don't lose a single real unit. On top of that, if most of units are Battlecruisers, you can TP to the places that the enemies drop to when necessary, so you can pretty much guarantee a perfect defense. It's pretty fun to spam your cooldowns. As for Rough Rider, I guess it's like stimpack for mechs? It seems good for specific situations, but Raynor's mechs are mostly defensive in nature, so it's really only good for defense. If you are utilizing air units, I think the Rebel Raider prestige is better.
@@levsonc Most of the damage he blamed on storms actually came from their plasma blast (yamato-like) and missile weapons, the plasma blast seems to have an AoE though so if you don't magic box banshees/vikings are toast.
I think part of the problem with the BC strat was how you were attempting to keep them heathly.... mules. Only repair out of battle, They are slow to repair, and with increased mineral cost..... I think you would have been better served having medics near by if for no other reason than minimizing repair costs.
Yamato should have been saved to 1 shot the hybrid stormer...taking 2 storms killed a lot of his forces. Any red unit should have retreated to the medic pile.
I think the question with Rebel Raider is "can you produce battlecruisers faster than you could otherwise?" It looks like you were mineral starved instead of vespene starved so clearly the vespene discount is enough, but you were also against void rays in that final mission; perhaps BC vs ground units would be better?
2nd game on 3rd Prestige, TBF, BCs aren't exactly ideal vs. mass Tempests, although it is amusing to see that Prestige 1 bioballs seem to fare better vs. storm than BCs :D . 1:07:03 Wasn't keeping track of how many BCs you had at the in-game 27m03 mark, but your Prestige cd for top bars was 150%. Basically, you get to spam your 240s cd Top Bars every 2 minutes instead! :O
Regarding Prestige 3, Raynor's BCs are primarily limited by gas, which you can't boost in any way, so they can really only be made 2 at a time. This I guess it gives you the ability to (difficultly) increase BC production if your macro is on point.
Something I have learned while playing the Backwater Sheriff Prestige Talent is that you only need 2 gases, and you can allow your ally to take the gases at your natural, this works even on +6; and as an added bonus the reduction in gas requirements means you have more supply for marines. Another thing to note is that due to the increased health of your marines you can experiment with forgoing marauders entirely against some compositions (mainly the "Air" and "Swarmy" compositions) because your marines no longer require marauders/firebats to tank for them (firebats are still *very* fun to use with ~400 hp and Stim); and once you have gotten your gas heavy production completed (medics/upgrades/reactors) you can pull the SCVs off of all but one gas (which in turn gives you more room for marines). It'll take some getting used to, but for me personally it is one of the easiest and most relaxing ways to play Co-Op, not to mention loads of fun watching 120 marines Stim and crush whatever they can see. (standard endgame comp for me as Backwater Sheriff is 120 marines, 40 SCVs, and 40 medics; following the 3:1 bio to medic ratio)
Rough Riders seems better for BattleCruiser spam thanks to the both attack and movement speed; While Reble Raider seems better for Viking spam, given the faster top bar cooldown allows you to spam Hyperion and Dusk Wings to deal with the ground.
The third prestige IS mineral heavy, yes but you lost SO many BCs, 10+ at least, (6000 minerals right there) that it would have snow balled better if you weren’t constantly needing to replace them. I think a little group of medics may be a must and send the bruised BCs home/pull back at like 20% instead of trying to micro them around with 5hp. (Ps: I mean no offense, you’re way better at the game than I am lol, just wanted to make these points!)
15:00 This Raynor/Kerrigan combo is so strong, also I know you're insanely better player than me, but as that raynor version, having 2-3 firebats just to be tanky buggers is great
for Rebel Raider I only do mass BC if I'm co-oped with a friend or if I'm confident enough to snowball my minerals with 10+ CCs in the first 10-15 mins otherwise, open up with Banshees and Vikings then transition to BC. That said I make 20-30 CCs which lets me make 3-4 starports so I can churn out those BCs faster and max out by at least midgame with this strat you call out so much mules that both BC repair cost is negligible and just queuing up more BCs don't matter when you're filthy rich. Heck I try to make it my goal to mine out my coop's mineral lines after finishing mine especially on Mist Opportunities. Note: 30+ CCs is still not enough to mine out your coop partner's main and expansion in Mist Opportunities.
Raynor’s first thing seems kina op as you dont actually have to replace units like half as much, meaning the eco needed for replacement isnt needed and they are stronger anyway
big smonk what’s bio weak on? Hp. Whats it amazing on? Dps. Imagine you not losing any bio units untill you’re at like 80 supply of bio. Storms dont kill, seeker missiles dont kill, your mom sitting on them doesnt killthem, collossi dont do anything. You barely lose 10 supply of bio in your last engagements. Ofcourse, mules are worth 5 scvs of minerals, however that doesnt justify having an army thats capable of demolishing everything. Your marines literally have 110 hp, (more with vanadium) and having 4 orbitals of mules or more doesnt get near the level of money saved from marines not dying, plus, that many orbitals comes in the mid/late game, where you’re really likely to lose a lot of your bio. Withs blackwater, that negative is negated by the fact that your bio ball has I believe something along the lines of 18 dps per marine, ~130 hp marines, and then there’s the medic adding ANOTHER 25% making them have like an effective health higher than a tank! Mules may be allowing you to grow a better army around mid game, however if you’re fighting say siege tanks, your gonna lose all your bio where blackwater would lose like 10-20 supply. Blackwater is stronger by far late game, early game raynor bio is always garbage, and mid game, rebel raider might have more dps, but its army is much more fragile, so you gotta play better. Blackwater requires less skill, gives more power, and its downside for most people is like 50% less mineral income. And usually in mid game, thats gonna be 25% less, and you’re also gonna have to spend minerals pn scanning because you lose on a mule (225)
@Snowdrop - hello fellow human mans really wrote an essay, well I've played a lot on both and honestly, I prefer mules. double health is nice but pointless unless you're fighting protoss splash comp which kills a lot of p1 bio anyways, and vs storm early on you just get 2:1 ratio of medics and marines until you can spam marines 24/7 with the insane economy boost, double hp does help vs things like siege tanks but by the time there's a significant number of them out you should already have enough bio to not care, and you don't lose bio early game anyways. dps of bio is high but this prestige lets you have much fewer bio units also forcing you to babysit your army more, when with mules if you even get 3 OC's and 1 OC at your expo while defending everything with calldowns and getting 6 barracks at start, you'll have a strong and steady stream of bio units for early game and once you reach mid/late game the damage to your army is irrelevant since you have enough production facilities to pop another 150 supply of bio instantly due to mules. even if the downside is 50% less mineral income which I doubt, that's still a lot. p1 is better lategame only because of extra hp, but by that point bio with mules would've achieved a lot more on the map, and since bio is unkillable lategame anyways I see no point. even though you lose money on scans, it's not significant, OC's pay for themselves from 1 mule, everything after that is profit, compared to p1 players who don't have mules at all and have to waste money on an orbital or two. what p1 is good for though, is mutations, undoubtedly, but i'd rather have mules for a normal game since I can get more units out and deal more damage, tankyness isn't all that important.
big smonk I would say normal requests more babysitting as your army is weaker, and requires more skill, however p1 just lets you a move and watch. There’s very little difference in the bio, and for me, I believe both are good, just p1’s extra durability is just insane. One’s you spam orbitals when you got about 70 ish army supply for mass mule massive income and a wall of flesh, others like your units are nova units but you have 100 supply. This downside can be comparable to your units cost 50% more, though both are just as good. However, if you know you’re gonna be fighting splash, maybe its in brutal+ retry or something, p1 is 100% better than always losing ypur army. P1 gives raynor a chance to do bio in those circumstances. Also, In the dead of night survival mission, you dont have space for nass orbitals so you just have to use p1
@@snowdrop9810 fair points, though for dead of night having 3 orbitals is enough, haven't had issues with that, though personally, I found the normal mule option to require less babysitting, but i guess that depends on enemy composition and etc.
Yeah I like Raynor as a commander, backwater sheriff is cool but his P3 is pretty freaking bad. If you want to play High Fleet Terran you are 100% better doing it with either Mengsk or Han and Horner with Wing Commander.... Its not even close...
Bc: im the terran unit with the most hp Firebat with prestige talent: hold my beer (You should have used them against those hyprid storms..... would have been more survivable ;))
I feel like the first Raynor should be “default” one as it’s less of a noob trap, for people that can’t/don’t stay on top of MULE use. Thanks for the video! Looking forward to the full release!
Hey you dont need to build barracks to unlock orbital anymore, so its much easier to start mulle'ing right away to farm minerals. I've have been successful on brutal with mass bcs and banshees+vikings. I would suggest new players to try banshees+vikings first, because bcs really needs a decent macro. my tips for new players that dont get raynor 3 prestige: 1) Start greedy, try to get 2 orbitals as soon as possible and spam mules on minerals. 2) Ask teammate to defend first wave, use your duskwings to destroy the rocks and place your orbital correctly and attack/defend the wave inc. 3) 3-4 starports is enough. I usually get 1 startport + 1 armory until I have 2 starports 2 armories running bcs and upgrades. 4)Sit back and help with your special abilites such as duskwings and hyperion. Once you have 4-6bcs, you can make some plays. 5)Get medics to heal your bcs, you dont want svcs stopping the income to spend and repair your bcs. bonus: if teammate disconnects, get 6 starports and solo that shit.
I feel like Raynor's Rebel Raider would be way more effective with a couple of medics, with Swann and his science vessels or with Karax and his repair beam. But the stupid heavy mineral cost make it brutal. your partner has to carry the early game. buuuut....it still seems pointless when the other 3 are so much more useful. xD
Backwater Sheriff are my favourite too no need to play with mule? count me in i'm getting tired of those already For some people lose mule probably hurt but for me trade with 2x hp bio it godsend
Agreed. As he proved, the minerals past a point didn’t matter. Yes, the Mules give you a ton, but if your units never die... what do you need all that money for? The only thing I see is that it definitely starts slower (if you normally go greedy)
@@JHooves714 It wasn't a problem since he didn't face any compositions or mutators that made it hard to maintain a critical mass of bio. But, once you're facing something that does, the crippled economy that comes with not having the mule income from 4-8 orbitals will be fairly noticeable.
4:10 I was wondering why you didn't plop down a Bunker. I think you'd be able to do it with the right unit types. AFAIK, the same # of Firebats probably could've held those zlots at bay. . 27:07 "Afterburner stim pack" in action on tanks
Yeah he was so late on armories too. Without weapons upgrades enemy armor was a huge reduction in his DPS. Also, just because BC can move and shoot doesn't mean you always should. Flew into random turrets and drew unnecessary aggro. Also dropping in a few medics probably would have been a good idea instead of wasting mules. Not only did the mule not mine anything it used minerals for repair. In a build that was already starved for minerals.
In PTR, 1 non-random casual win without bonus reach lv 15. 3 wins can get all 3 prestiges. 4 wins can unlock all power up of a single CO. 18 CO mean 72 wins. 16 wins w/ brutal and random reach Masteries lv 90: W29> W40> L45> W52> W58> L60> L60> W66> W70> W74> W77> W80> W83> W85> W87> W88> W89> W90 88 wins unlock EVERYthings. - Ascend: 1 brutal win= 90->96
In release, 19 non-random brutal wins reach lv15 W2>L3(3/8)>W4>W5>W6>W7> W8>W8>W9>W10>W10> W11>W11>W12>W13>W13> W13>W14>W14>W15> 17 random brutal wins reach lv15 W3>W4>W5>LLL5>W6>W7> W8>L8>W9>W10>W11>W11> W12>W12>W13>W13>W14> W14>W15 51 wins can get all 3 prestiges. 68 wins can unlock all power ups of a single CO. 18 CO mean 1,224 wins.
The problem in the PTR is that you need to level up again which is a grind and PITA. Blizzard should just give us max level to test the prestige cause I don't have the time to grind all the levels again
You get to lvl 1 just from one game, even on casual. Just play lnl or vt, can be done in 10-15 mins. Overall doesn't take long to finish lvling the commanders 4x.
Talvez o mas BC seja bom em mapas onde da para pegar a base de IA como no laçamento do vazio, comboi da aniquilação e mandando bala... Ou fazer uns 14 orbitais par ater 7 mules por base :V
Could the air force comp (last talent be better in a more def map) You sit in your basse whit like bunkers and some medic whit like air support and use your cooldown that are faster to push am thinking like Banshee for death night map where your banshee kill the enemies zerg infesteed in the night and whene sun is up you got like your cooldown day and night all day you can just use call out to push the building... I don't know tho just an idea may be it better this way you can camp and not lose as much troupe. + Banshee would be the best cost effective unite to get 225 Min for 3 suply of air (225 Min for 3% cooldown) vs Battle (600 Min for 6% cooldown) Banshe is more effective.
I think they should show what allied commander choose as "Prestige" upon loading screen so we can plan ahead of things... especially playing with randoms Also in my opinion, Rebel Raider better goes with Viking & Banshee since more units = more % for faster top bar It double cooldown rates compare to mass battlecruisers at maximum supply
Does anyone know the difference of the option (start 32-bit client instead of 64) in the settings panel before starting the game? As I read it is for better performance, is it true? Thanks
I thing you had a wrong approach for the third prestige talent. Rushing battlecruisers with this is to be straight, stupid. The way to go should be always banshees and vikings first. Dont know if you evet tried this playstyle (since 99% of people play raynor with bio only), bu banshee-viking composition is super gas heavy and playing it will always leave you with 0 gas and literally thousands of minerals unless you spam aa turrets or bunkers and p3 compensate s for that. BCs are a go to in late game, when you have a lot of ccs and mules, but not before that. Rushing bcs is stupid, because capital ships unlike other air units in all races are not only expensive in has, but also in minerals. Because of that, rushing bcs even with p0 will eat up all of your minerals, not leave a bank like when going for banshees and vikings, co its obvius that if you increase their mineral cost by 30%, you will be short on minerals like hell.
After watching this I am even more upset with the ones for Abathur. Maybe they will feel better after playing but Each of Raynor's make for solid play style options and all three are strong choices. Abathur has only 1 that is viable IMO while the other 2 are a waste of time or just bad. An the only one that is viable isn't good enough IMO to justify it's downside. Few of the other commanders feel the same. (Hope the PTR feedback leads to adjustments)
I just realized that there was a version button on the Sc2, what difference is there between the rpp and the normal one? will the patch be applied in normal?
If I log in with my battle.net alias to this PTR and play, will it reset the levels of my commanders on normal server, so that when I go to usual SC2 server, will my commanders still be of the level that I have or will they be downgraded to lvl 1 ?
Can’t they fix Rebel Raider by just making the mineral cost +30% instead of + 50%. So you have 30% reduced gas cost and 30% increased mineral cost. That would still play in the favor of mech build but not to where it’s unviable because of such an increased mineral demand.
Cobalt_ Sure, there might be ways to adapt to it but but requiring you to build a bunch of Command Centers when there are only 2 mineral deposits per player on most coop maps was not, I don’t think, the intention of creators for this build. I think it’s just currently unbalanced.
@@TheCelestialvision Raynor on higher difficulties (without prestige talents taken into account) generally will want 3-8 ccs every game anyway, you don't care much about the fact that you only have 2 sets of mineral lines when mules only cost energy, and significantly ramp up your mineral income. The devs likely know about players building mass CC's at this point, and have probably balanced the prestige talent with this in mind.
Cobalt_ Cobalt_ so you think they created a mass cc build rather than a mass carrier build? That doesn’t make much sense. If even an expert coop player like CtG was having difficulty making enough minerals to build up a BC fleet then this build is clearly unbalanced. That’s exactly why it’s still in beta. I don’t get why you wouldn’t want the build to be balanced correctly. Clearly it shouldn’t require massing CC’s to be able to build up a decent number of battle cruisers since not everyone plays that way. And the point of the coop is to be fun and allow variation of play, not demand that you mass CC’s and micro MULES perfectly to even be able to build a few BC’s before the end of a match.
@@TheCelestialvision It was his first game with the talent, he probably would have made a few ccs if he knew to what extent that he'd need the minerals. And variation of play's present within Raynor as a commander, as seen in his land/air mech and bio options together with his call downs, it's just that he's balanced around his CCs to maximize his potential for the most part. Mules don't require micro at all, nor would it require any perfect play to utilize properly. Set your mule button to a rapidfire key and hold it down on a mineral patch, you'll make a bunch of mules that'll automatically distribute themselves among the mineral patches present on your base. One button, very little effort aside from the need to do this once every 1-2 minutes.
U wery bad play fo raynor sor , im zero dead by becose teleport and u don't no that his fly when shoot??)) U no need stay in storm man u need more praktice its really bad game
![Level 90 Vorazun Prestige! ALL Talents! [Starcraft II Co-Op]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AB4dpUE0At8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Level 90 Vorazun Prestige! ALL Talents! [Starcraft II Co-Op]](/img/tr.png)
![Level 90 Stukov Prestige! ALL Talents! [Starcraft II Co-Op]](/img/1.gif)
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Protoss, I fear no storm, for my marines have 90 base health and rising." -Raynor, Backwater Sheriff
Seems a bit broken tbh
@@DonnieIsNotAmerican 400 HP + 30% when infantry armor is +3
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! LMAO!!!!
I really think Raynor Marines are OP asf
Combined with medics, it's really OP. One of the easiest playstyles.
They made Raynor very forgiving. You don't need to build CCs. Those bio are OP with 100% more health.
@@DonnieIsNotAmerican
Hehe Minigun go BRRRRRRR
Firebat 460 hp, 3 armor or more, big range. Come kill him !!!
Plus armor and more HP from upgrades, i agree
@CtG, when using Raynor's "Rebel Raider" skill tree, you should always get medics since they can repair mech units for free, you would have saved alot of minerals and units that way.
In my opinion, Backwater Sheriff is the easiest to play, one of the most powerful playstyles, provided the enemies don't just drop in when you have full army are on the other side of the map.
Rebel Raiders is a bit late-game, but when completed, it's possibly even more powerful then Backwater Sheriff. Once you get full 200/200 with air units, you can basically spam your Hyperion and Banshee Airstrike, one right after the other disappears, ensuring that you don't lose a single real unit. On top of that, if most of units are Battlecruisers, you can TP to the places that the enemies drop to when necessary, so you can pretty much guarantee a perfect defense. It's pretty fun to spam your cooldowns.
As for Rough Rider, I guess it's like stimpack for mechs? It seems good for specific situations, but Raynor's mechs are mostly defensive in nature, so it's really only good for defense. If you are utilizing air units, I think the Rebel Raider prestige is better.
maybe vikings and banshees would be the way to go with the last one. great vid btw, looking forward to the next ones
Psi-storms will hurt them even more.
@@levsonc Against Sky-Toss? Some vikings would have helped cleared out those walls of Phoenixes for sure.
@@levsonc Most of the damage he blamed on storms actually came from their plasma blast (yamato-like) and missile weapons, the plasma blast seems to have an AoE though so if you don't magic box banshees/vikings are toast.
I would use Viking and banshee as a startup, then transition to battle cruisers.
Both banshee and vikings would have more mobility to get out of psi storms
5:56 "I'm actually feeling it."
Something my last girlfriend never said to me... :(
F
Shiit man glad you dumped her ass you deserve someone that feels for ya!
Guess it's that time of the year when I binged this channel for a month straight again.
I think part of the problem with the BC strat was how you were attempting to keep them heathly.... mules.
Only repair out of battle, They are slow to repair, and with increased mineral cost..... I think you would have been better served having medics near by if for no other reason than minimizing repair costs.
Yamato should have been saved to 1 shot the hybrid stormer...taking 2 storms killed a lot of his forces. Any red unit should have retreated to the medic pile.
Also not having fully saturates mineral lines fucked him up big time
Another command can heal you, like Stetmann
I think backwater sheriff is by far the best overall, the others are usefull but more on specific missions
I think the question with Rebel Raider is "can you produce battlecruisers faster than you could otherwise?" It looks like you were mineral starved instead of vespene starved so clearly the vespene discount is enough, but you were also against void rays in that final mission; perhaps BC vs ground units would be better?
Think the answer to a mineral starve is just more orbitals and more mules, luckily Raynor can easily solve mineral starvation
2nd game on 3rd Prestige, TBF, BCs aren't exactly ideal vs. mass Tempests, although it is amusing to see that Prestige 1 bioballs seem to fare better vs. storm than BCs :D
.
1:07:03 Wasn't keeping track of how many BCs you had at the in-game 27m03 mark, but your Prestige cd for top bars was 150%. Basically, you get to spam your 240s cd Top Bars every 2 minutes instead! :O
Holy, you level up so friking fast!!!!
You get a lot more exp on the PTS server.
PTR has +11000% holiday bonus right now, so you reach 1-15 in 1 game, even casual
@@JR-White ooooh
@@JR-White LOL
Do you also retain ascension levels between PTRs or do they reset every patch?
@@BuGBurnoutthey are resetting the PTR once this patch goes out
Regarding Prestige 3, Raynor's BCs are primarily limited by gas, which you can't boost in any way, so they can really only be made 2 at a time. This I guess it gives you the ability to (difficultly) increase BC production if your macro is on point.
Something I have learned while playing the Backwater Sheriff Prestige Talent is that you only need 2 gases, and you can allow your ally to take the gases at your natural, this works even on +6; and as an added bonus the reduction in gas requirements means you have more supply for marines. Another thing to note is that due to the increased health of your marines you can experiment with forgoing marauders entirely against some compositions (mainly the "Air" and "Swarmy" compositions) because your marines no longer require marauders/firebats to tank for them (firebats are still *very* fun to use with ~400 hp and Stim); and once you have gotten your gas heavy production completed (medics/upgrades/reactors) you can pull the SCVs off of all but one gas (which in turn gives you more room for marines). It'll take some getting used to, but for me personally it is one of the easiest and most relaxing ways to play Co-Op, not to mention loads of fun watching 120 marines Stim and crush whatever they can see. (standard endgame comp for me as Backwater Sheriff is 120 marines, 40 SCVs, and 40 medics; following the 3:1 bio to medic ratio)
24 medic is enough for me with marine only also full worker scv
Marines for the win lol
wow armor upgrades dont stack with the double health
also the battlecruiser can be healed by medics dude dont repair them with scvs
Especially since every repair MULE is some 40-50% of a BC in lost mining.
@@Photoloss repairs to full is 25% i believe. but then again, the lost mining time from mules..
He knows that, he didn’t have any medics and scvs was close by.
Rough Riders seems better for BattleCruiser spam thanks to the both attack and movement speed; While Reble Raider seems better for Viking spam, given the faster top bar cooldown allows you to spam Hyperion and Dusk Wings to deal with the ground.
+100% health on bio: does this apply to the tech that increases the health of Firebats? That's 460hp if it does, literally more than a Thor.
Wholesome
Yes is really cool
The third prestige IS mineral heavy, yes but you lost SO many BCs, 10+ at least, (6000 minerals right there) that it would have snow balled better if you weren’t constantly needing to replace them. I think a little group of medics may be a must and send the bruised BCs home/pull back at like 20% instead of trying to micro them around with 5hp. (Ps: I mean no offense, you’re way better at the game than I am lol, just wanted to make these points!)
15:00 This Raynor/Kerrigan combo is so strong, also I know you're insanely better player than me, but as that raynor version, having 2-3 firebats just to be tanky buggers is great
for Rebel Raider I only do mass BC if I'm co-oped with a friend or if I'm confident enough to snowball my minerals with 10+ CCs in the first 10-15 mins otherwise, open up with Banshees and Vikings then transition to BC. That said I make 20-30 CCs which lets me make 3-4 starports so I can churn out those BCs faster and max out by at least midgame with this strat you call out so much mules that both BC repair cost is negligible and just queuing up more BCs don't matter when you're filthy rich. Heck I try to make it my goal to mine out my coop's mineral lines after finishing mine especially on Mist Opportunities.
Note: 30+ CCs is still not enough to mine out your coop partner's main and expansion in Mist Opportunities.
Raynor’s first thing seems kina op as you dont actually have to replace units like half as much, meaning the eco needed for replacement isnt needed and they are stronger anyway
mules are better
big smonk what’s bio weak on? Hp. Whats it amazing on? Dps. Imagine you not losing any bio units untill you’re at like 80 supply of bio. Storms dont kill, seeker missiles dont kill, your mom sitting on them doesnt killthem, collossi dont do anything. You barely lose 10 supply of bio in your last engagements. Ofcourse, mules are worth 5 scvs of minerals, however that doesnt justify having an army thats capable of demolishing everything. Your marines literally have 110 hp, (more with vanadium) and having 4 orbitals of mules or more doesnt get near the level of money saved from marines not dying, plus, that many orbitals comes in the mid/late game, where you’re really likely to lose a lot of your bio. Withs blackwater, that negative is negated by the fact that your bio ball has I believe something along the lines of 18 dps per marine, ~130 hp marines, and then there’s the medic adding ANOTHER 25% making them have like an effective health higher than a tank! Mules may be allowing you to grow a better army around mid game, however if you’re fighting say siege tanks, your gonna lose all your bio where blackwater would lose like 10-20 supply. Blackwater is stronger by far late game, early game raynor bio is always garbage, and mid game, rebel raider might have more dps, but its army is much more fragile, so you gotta play better. Blackwater requires less skill, gives more power, and its downside for most people is like 50% less mineral income. And usually in mid game, thats gonna be 25% less, and you’re also gonna have to spend minerals pn scanning because you lose on a mule (225)
@Snowdrop - hello fellow human mans really wrote an essay, well I've played a lot on both and honestly, I prefer mules. double health is nice but pointless unless you're fighting protoss splash comp which kills a lot of p1 bio anyways, and vs storm early on you just get 2:1 ratio of medics and marines until you can spam marines 24/7 with the insane economy boost, double hp does help vs things like siege tanks but by the time there's a significant number of them out you should already have enough bio to not care, and you don't lose bio early game anyways. dps of bio is high but this prestige lets you have much fewer bio units also forcing you to babysit your army more, when with mules if you even get 3 OC's and 1 OC at your expo while defending everything with calldowns and getting 6 barracks at start, you'll have a strong and steady stream of bio units for early game and once you reach mid/late game the damage to your army is irrelevant since you have enough production facilities to pop another 150 supply of bio instantly due to mules. even if the downside is 50% less mineral income which I doubt, that's still a lot. p1 is better lategame only because of extra hp, but by that point bio with mules would've achieved a lot more on the map, and since bio is unkillable lategame anyways I see no point. even though you lose money on scans, it's not significant, OC's pay for themselves from 1 mule, everything after that is profit, compared to p1 players who don't have mules at all and have to waste money on an orbital or two. what p1 is good for though, is mutations, undoubtedly, but i'd rather have mules for a normal game since I can get more units out and deal more damage, tankyness isn't all that important.
big smonk I would say normal requests more babysitting as your army is weaker, and requires more skill, however p1 just lets you a move and watch. There’s very little difference in the bio, and for me, I believe both are good, just p1’s extra durability is just insane. One’s you spam orbitals when you got about 70 ish army supply for mass mule massive income and a wall of flesh, others like your units are nova units but you have 100 supply. This downside can be comparable to your units cost 50% more, though both are just as good. However, if you know you’re gonna be fighting splash, maybe its in brutal+ retry or something, p1 is 100% better than always losing ypur army. P1 gives raynor a chance to do bio in those circumstances. Also, In the dead of night survival mission, you dont have space for nass orbitals so you just have to use p1
@@snowdrop9810 fair points, though for dead of night having 3 orbitals is enough, haven't had issues with that, though personally, I found the normal mule option to require less babysitting, but i guess that depends on enemy composition and etc.
Yeah I like Raynor as a commander, backwater sheriff is cool but his P3 is pretty freaking bad. If you want to play High Fleet Terran you are 100% better doing it with either Mengsk or Han and Horner with Wing Commander.... Its not even close...
Bc: im the terran unit with the most hp
Firebat with prestige talent: hold my beer
(You should have used them against those hyprid storms..... would have been more survivable ;))
400 is less than 550
@@meeperdudeify It's 430 with upgrades. Also costs 100 minerals vs 600. Learn to math.
@@CMDR_Birb it might cost less but 430 is still less than 715
Mass BC seems bad, maybe just 3 or 4 of them with banshees and vikings mixed in.
Fun thing, I never used mules ever, so loosing them, was no change for me XD
I feel like the first Raynor should be “default” one as it’s less of a noob trap, for people that can’t/don’t stay on top of MULE use. Thanks for the video! Looking forward to the full release!
It's a bit like P1 Vorazun, for people who dont use recall anyway
Hey you dont need to build barracks to unlock orbital anymore, so its much easier to start mulle'ing right away to farm minerals. I've have been successful on brutal with mass bcs and banshees+vikings. I would suggest new players to try banshees+vikings first, because bcs really needs a decent macro.
my tips for new players that dont get raynor 3 prestige:
1) Start greedy, try to get 2 orbitals as soon as possible and spam mules on minerals.
2) Ask teammate to defend first wave, use your duskwings to destroy the rocks and place your orbital correctly and attack/defend the wave inc.
3) 3-4 starports is enough. I usually get 1 startport + 1 armory until I have 2 starports 2 armories running bcs and upgrades.
4)Sit back and help with your special abilites such as duskwings and hyperion. Once you have 4-6bcs, you can make some plays.
5)Get medics to heal your bcs, you dont want svcs stopping the income to spend and repair your bcs.
bonus: if teammate disconnects, get 6 starports and solo that shit.
To be fair that last one end game was pretty cool whitout even the 200 suply your hyperion was like what 30 sec cooldown or something?
I feel like Raynor's Rebel Raider would be way more effective with a couple of medics, with Swann and his science vessels or with Karax and his repair beam.
But the stupid heavy mineral cost make it brutal. your partner has to carry the early game. buuuut....it still seems pointless when the other 3 are so much more useful. xD
Backwater Sheriff are my favourite too no need to play with mule? count me in i'm getting tired of those already
For some people lose mule probably hurt but for me trade with 2x hp bio it godsend
Double HP isn't enough to be worth the loss of mules, considering most of your income in the midgame comes from your orbital commands.
Me too. But I always forget to use the mules anyways so I like that I at least get a benefit for it now lol
Agreed. As he proved, the minerals past a point didn’t matter. Yes, the Mules give you a ton, but if your units never die... what do you need all that money for? The only thing I see is that it definitely starts slower (if you normally go greedy)
@@JHooves714 It wasn't a problem since he didn't face any compositions or mutators that made it hard to maintain a critical mass of bio.
But, once you're facing something that does, the crippled economy that comes with not having the mule income from 4-8 orbitals will be fairly noticeable.
4:10 I was wondering why you didn't plop down a Bunker. I think you'd be able to do it with the right unit types. AFAIK, the same # of Firebats probably could've held those zlots at bay.
.
27:07 "Afterburner stim pack" in action on tanks
I was mostly just experimenting to see if they can hold it without a bunker. I for sure could have made one.
@@CtG-Games Hello and how are you doing CtG-Games im play StarCraft 2 Coop when have time
In the third prestige you shold probobly have gon banche and viking
Yah banshee cost 225 Min for 3% vs Battle cost 600 min for 6%
(that like 450 min vs 600 Min)
3:50 Marines go *NYOOM* .
do u ever repair BC? or healing them? or at least use/ research afterburn to dodge?
anything but keeping them from tanking 2 long?
Yeah he was so late on armories too. Without weapons upgrades enemy armor was a huge reduction in his DPS.
Also, just because BC can move and shoot doesn't mean you always should. Flew into random turrets and drew unnecessary aggro. Also dropping in a few medics probably would have been a good idea instead of wasting mules. Not only did the mule not mine anything it used minerals for repair. In a build that was already starved for minerals.
well made! cheers and thx. i wish you mad some firebats with 1st prestige
Firebats honestly are worth it no matter the enemy composition. They max out at 430 HP! They literally tank as hard as Thors
i truly respect your level of grind man
In PTR, 1 non-random casual win without bonus reach lv 15.
3 wins can get all 3 prestiges.
4 wins can unlock all power up of a single CO.
18 CO mean 72 wins.
16 wins w/ brutal and random reach Masteries lv 90:
W29> W40> L45> W52> W58> L60> L60> W66> W70> W74>
W77> W80> W83> W85> W87> W88> W89> W90
88 wins unlock EVERYthings.
-
Ascend:
1 brutal win= 90->96
In release, 19 non-random brutal wins reach lv15
W2>L3(3/8)>W4>W5>W6>W7> W8>W8>W9>W10>W10>
W11>W11>W12>W13>W13> W13>W14>W14>W15>
17 random brutal wins reach lv15
W3>W4>W5>LLL5>W6>W7> W8>L8>W9>W10>W11>W11>
W12>W12>W13>W13>W14> W14>W15
51 wins can get all 3 prestiges.
68 wins can unlock all power ups of a single CO.
18 CO mean 1,224 wins.
Kinetic Blast Kerrigan here doesnt seem to have longer atk range, and her portrait announcer is still Primal Kerrigan
kerrigan is also financing u on the battlecruiser tactic
Your ally kept failing to creep your bases, the malignant creep could help saturate bases earlier, wouldn't need 4/3 on distant gasses either.
when will this be released i wanna play it on my liveaccount .... ?!?
The problem in the PTR is that you need to level up again which is a grind and PITA. Blizzard should just give us max level to test the prestige cause I don't have the time to grind all the levels again
You get about 1 million points per mission so it's not that bad.
You get to lvl 1 just from one game, even on casual. Just play lnl or vt, can be done in 10-15 mins. Overall doesn't take long to finish lvling the commanders 4x.
@@magnus9564 What, is that a bug or feature?
As a Ladder player it physically hurts to see you so nonchalantly denying to upgrade your cc to an orbital.
Without MULEs, is there really a point in rushing Orbital Commands?
@@CtG-Games good question.
@@CtG-Games Hello and im here im not play brutal dificulty
Talvez o mas BC seja bom em mapas onde da para pegar a base de IA como no laçamento do vazio, comboi da aniquilação e mandando bala... Ou fazer uns 14 orbitais par ater 7 mules por base :V
Ourea coisa é q eu usaria medicos em vez de mules para curar os bcs, afinal n custa minerios/gas :V
@@Dj_Marinho Médico não cura unidades mecânicas.
Raynor 'Backwater Marshal's' prestige make his bio army are near equal to 40k IG or Space Marine
Could the air force comp (last talent be better in a more def map) You sit in your basse whit like bunkers and some medic whit like air support and use your cooldown that are faster to push am thinking like Banshee for death night map where your banshee kill the enemies zerg infesteed in the night and whene sun is up you got like your cooldown day and night all day you can just use call out to push the building... I don't know tho just an idea may be it better this way you can camp and not lose as much troupe.
+ Banshee would be the best cost effective unite to get 225 Min for 3 suply of air (225 Min for 3% cooldown) vs Battle (600 Min for 6% cooldown) Banshe is more effective.
that was not thunder, that was the tactical jumps.
Very cool videos. Congrats!
Beginner question : How do you queue so many supply depots with a single Scv?
Shift click
I think they should show what allied commander choose as "Prestige" upon loading screen so we can plan ahead of things... especially playing with randoms
Also in my opinion, Rebel Raider better goes with Viking & Banshee since more units = more % for faster top bar
It double cooldown rates compare to mass battlecruisers at maximum supply
Thats not true. It's 1% per Supply used. So as long as the armys are supplywise the same you will also get the same cooldown reduction
I see, so it counted the supply instead of the number of air units in army
For the mech build you should have had your teammate go karax with the new repair beam buff.
Does anyone know the difference of the option (start 32-bit client instead of 64) in the settings panel before starting the game? As I read it is for better performance, is it true? Thanks
Why do you waste scv on gas in p1
Why not mix in some vikings for the skytoss on oblivion express... also it might be cheaper to repair the bcs with medics...
Prestige set 1 very useful for micro marine
The gas is still optimized for 3 not 4
When player rebel raider just go full CC spam ( 10-12 orbitals ) 3 starports and trust me with BCs you just walk over the enemy so easy.
Can u explain plis how u got 1.2m exp in a single game? Didn't get it and also what is ptr?
I thing you had a wrong approach for the third prestige talent. Rushing battlecruisers with this is to be straight, stupid. The way to go should be always banshees and vikings first. Dont know if you evet tried this playstyle (since 99% of people play raynor with bio only), bu banshee-viking composition is super gas heavy and playing it will always leave you with 0 gas and literally thousands of minerals unless you spam aa turrets or bunkers and p3 compensate s for that. BCs are a go to in late game, when you have a lot of ccs and mules, but not before that. Rushing bcs is stupid, because capital ships unlike other air units in all races are not only expensive in has, but also in minerals. Because of that, rushing bcs even with p0 will eat up all of your minerals, not leave a bank like when going for banshees and vikings, co its obvius that if you increase their mineral cost by 30%, you will be short on minerals like hell.
After watching this I am even more upset with the ones for Abathur. Maybe they will feel better after playing but Each of Raynor's make for solid play style options and all three are strong choices. Abathur has only 1 that is viable IMO while the other 2 are a waste of time or just bad. An the only one that is viable isn't good enough IMO to justify it's downside. Few of the other commanders feel the same. (Hope the PTR feedback leads to adjustments)
Can you explain what is that over a million in holiday xp? How the hell do you get that much xp in one game, and from just the bonus?
This is ptr version of course he would get but only for a limited time due to events. Normal games there won't be this kind of bonus.
When is the actualization?
it gives you something when you reach prestige level 3?
I just realized that there was a version button on the Sc2, what difference is there between the rpp and the normal one? will the patch be applied in normal?
Yes, eventually. Most likely in a month or so
Just for information you download the PTR and grind to level 90 Mastery to unlock the prestige specs or you are those unlocked out of the gate ? :)
Xp gain is massively increased so you reach prestige in no time
It’s weird I don’t see the prestige coop mechanic in my game. Can anyone help?
Have you entered PTR server?
@@levsonc Ooohhhh that's what I was missing xD you have no idea how much headaches you've saved me! Thank you! I appreciate it
whell odd iff you can play on the PTR why can i not i am getting all the time (Battle.net is down for maintenance)
whill SC2 is normaly playable
If I log in with my battle.net alias to this PTR and play, will it reset the levels of my commanders on normal server, so that when I go to usual SC2 server, will my commanders still be of the level that I have or will they be downgraded to lvl 1 ?
Ofcourse not, dont worry
Hello and what server you play StarCraft 2 CTG i play on Europian account there i have my comsnders on 102 Prestige have a nice day
What makes rough rider mech based?
The afterburner research from the factory gives mech units stim that doesn't damage them.
@@CtG-Games ic
It just takes one hard random game (or maybe less) to get 15 on ptr
in the artanis lvl 90 prestige how are you able to gain 1.2 mil exp in holiday bonus i only get 11k
I also wanna ask the same question
Last prestige you should more focus on minerals. You got way too much gas way too eary
So you need to level up your commander to level 15 three more times just to get the 3rd prestige? Tiresome lol
29:14 LOL OCD
Man, it is so sad u still did not show us what Raynor's prestige 3 actually is.
1) You didnt build enough orbitals. Need more mules. 2) No upgrades on BCs.
wtf is that holiday bonus? 1 mil exp?
The BC dmg seems very low, Is it bug?
No he used 0 upgrades against max upgraded enemy forces
Can’t they fix Rebel Raider by just making the mineral cost +30% instead of + 50%. So you have 30% reduced gas cost and 30% increased mineral cost. That would still play in the favor of mech build but not to where it’s unviable because of such an increased mineral demand.
Minerals shouldn't be much of an issue with a 4cc opener
Cobalt_ Sure, there might be ways to adapt to it but but requiring you to build a bunch of Command Centers when there are only 2 mineral deposits per player on most coop maps was not, I don’t think, the intention of creators for this build. I think it’s just currently unbalanced.
@@TheCelestialvision Raynor on higher difficulties (without prestige talents taken into account) generally will want 3-8 ccs every game anyway, you don't care much about the fact that you only have 2 sets of mineral lines when mules only cost energy, and significantly ramp up your mineral income.
The devs likely know about players building mass CC's at this point, and have probably balanced the prestige talent with this in mind.
Cobalt_ Cobalt_ so you think they created a mass cc build rather than a mass carrier build? That doesn’t make much sense. If even an expert coop player like CtG was having difficulty making enough minerals to build up a BC fleet then this build is clearly unbalanced. That’s exactly why it’s still in beta. I don’t get why you wouldn’t want the build to be balanced correctly. Clearly it shouldn’t require massing CC’s to be able to build up a decent number of battle cruisers since not everyone plays that way. And the point of the coop is to be fun and allow variation of play, not demand that you mass CC’s and micro MULES perfectly to even be able to build a few BC’s before the end of a match.
@@TheCelestialvision It was his first game with the talent, he probably would have made a few ccs if he knew to what extent that he'd need the minerals.
And variation of play's present within Raynor as a commander, as seen in his land/air mech and bio options together with his call downs, it's just that he's balanced around his CCs to maximize his potential for the most part.
Mules don't require micro at all, nor would it require any perfect play to utilize properly.
Set your mule button to a rapidfire key and hold it down on a mineral patch, you'll make a bunch of mules that'll automatically distribute themselves among the mineral patches present on your base. One button, very little effort aside from the need to do this once every 1-2 minutes.
Wdf 1254000 exp
0 upg bc are crap ...... upg them and see what happens
The lack of OC in this video is disturbing.
What on the fuck why u don't need that many cc ... wast of cash each if thos cc is a bc ...
❤️ i like the couple jim raynor and sarah kerrigan
Battlecruiser just .... big garbage
Do not make depots ,with raynor u make olny orbitals
They pay for themselves And u need less suply in scv
U wery bad play fo raynor sor , im zero dead by becose teleport and u don't no that his fly when shoot??)) U no need stay in storm man u need more praktice its really bad game