I LOVE this idea of re-enacting historical actions using the WONDERFUL graphics of this system. Minus all the cheesy "shockwave" and fly-by effects you see on some of the History Channel "Dogfight" programs, I think these prove that the events portrayed are plenty interesting and dramatic enough without "the Hollywood Treatment". In the weapons discussions, it is interesting to note that both the East and West blocs went through those periods where they stupidly thought that the early radar- and infrared missiles would completely replace cannon, and sent large numbers of aircraft into battle with "one hand tied behind their backs" in a figurative sense. Headshakingly stupid.
Thank you for your comment and positive opinion! I was partially inspired by the Dogfights but sometimes they could have turned it down a notch perhaps. You are right about those misconceptions about missiles present in both sides during the Cold War. Perhaps it's easier to be smart now but they definitely overlooked a lot.
@@showtime112 People in both the East and the West went so far as to declare the "end of the dogfight" as they stupidly stripped aircraft of cannon and fit them with limited loadouts of missiles that were more likely to go ballistic than to track anything airborne (they were even more likely to try to shoot down the sun as to track on an afterburner). One early model of the legendary F-4 Phantom was one example.
Nice video Showtime ^^ One thing I would like to say is that the appreciation that the MiG-21 was designed as an interceptor aircraft is not really correct, unfortunately this concept is very widespread so it's a bit of a tough nut to crack. The MiG-21 was really envisioned as a tactical fighter, with it's primary focus being put on achieving high speeds with a decent amount of maneuverability for air to air combat against other fighters. This was mostly a response for the experience in the Korean war, where both the MiG-15 and Sabre were quite equally matched, and how one of the better advantages the MiG-15 had over the older US fixed wing jets before the Sabre arrived was speed. The original armament and systems show this: the first MiG-21F had no missiles, only a pair of cannons, with a simple radar ranging gunsight similar to the F-86 Sabre. The plane was not suited for interception work in the late 50s, it would have been limited to daylight and fair weather conditions, it would have to locate it's target visually and then attack with cannons, exposing itself to the bomber rear guns which at this point usually were radar assisted cannons. Soviet interceptors at the time were envisioned with a proper fire control radar and missile only armament, to engage bombers from stand off range away from their gunners, and very little (if any) focus in anti-fighter work. Examples of these would be the Yak-28P, Tu-128 and Su-9. There were interceptor variants of the MiG-21, the PF and derivatives, as you said in the video those had missile only armament as standard and they had a radar capable of locating, tracking and guiding radar guided missiles, but this was building upon the original design, as it was usually done with other MiG fighters (missile only MiG-17PFU and MiG-19PM). Sorry for the wall of text ^^
There seems to be a general perception these days that fast and with no or poor independent search capability = interceptor, but the reality is that during the Cold War (and especially early on), almost nobody had a good independent search capability and the supposedly free-roaming USAF/USN were just as reliant on control from the ground or AEW&C as the Soviets... and honestly they still are, the difference is that they have a little more flexibility in how they execute actual engagements and their chain of command is immensely complicated. Pretty much everyone took the same lesson from WWII, and so the emphasis was always on speed and climb rate through the late 40s, 50s, 60s, and even well into the 70s. Nobody wanted to be at the mercy of an opponent who could fall on them from above, then climb away from each attack with impunity. Agility was a luxury, and one the MiG-21 was well ahead of its peers with - few of the fighters before the F-15, 16, 18, MiG-29, or Su-27 were very agile by comparison to those later jets, and the MiG-21 had low-speed handling and instantaneous turning ability that was up there with the best until the 70s. The quickest way to determine if a Soviet fighter was actually an honest interceptor is to see if it served exclusively in the PVO (other than recce/bomber roles for some like the Yak-28, MiG-25). If it did, it was an interceptor. If it served in the VVS as well, it was usually a single variant development of a tactical fighter tailored to the air defence role (MiG-19P, MiG-21PF/PFM, MiG-21bis izd. 75B, MiG-23P). If it served only in the VVS, it was a fighter through and through. Soviet/Russian literature often makes the distinction even more clear: types are explicitly described as "frontal fighter" vs "interceptor" or "fighter-interceptor".
@@blackbaron2572 It is definitely subjective. I think I could sum it up by saying that this period had just the right amount of technology. Aircraft performances grew at an incredible pace. But they still needed to get close to each other to fight. And there were many wars where both sides had military aviation in that period. In the last 20 years, it's mostly asymmetrical warfare, dropping JDAMs on insurgents. Not so exciting :)
Mirage is a cool plane... we used to get visiting RAAF Mirages here in NZ... looks like a dart... I have seen a Mig 21 warbird here on static display.. 2 great planes 👍🇳🇿
Enemy 1: "Ugh, my weapons won't work to kill you." Enemy 2: "Same - Let's RTB, get that stuff fixed and kill each other later." Enemy 1: "Sounds good. L8ts!"
Look at all those beauitful sexy Metal shining Mirage‘s III rolling out of the Hangars to the runway. 👀A other great inside view of what Happend in 1964👍 I love it when you fly the 60th‘s event‘s with the Mirage IIIC that’s the way it’s done right.😉 And not with a Mirage 2000🤷♂️ like some other RUclipsr do it.
Thanks for the comment, once again. I was reading the Duel book MiG-21 vs Mirage III and this story seemed like the real thing to do. I find it even more interesting than the 'regular' conflicts where someone gets shot down!
As long as you keep your radar off and you use the proper weapons for it most people won't even notice that this was a more modern Mig-21. I only knew this was a Mig-21 Bis because I play DCS, but otherwise you could have told us that was what a Mig-21 F13 looked like and I wouldn't have known otherwise.
There's always someone who 'notices' and usually in that 'I didn't know that.....' tone. I know that comments are good for videos but sometimes I get tired of explaining that I can make these videos by approximating some assets or I couldn't make them at all. So I add these disclaimers in the narrative but that doesn't seem to help either 😁
It seems that Razbam started working on it. There are some pictures of wip 3d models on their site but they are from 2017. There's also a FB post from 2020 but the models are apparently on the same level they were in 2017.
@@reefta Not very relevant. ED always repeats that only a very small percentage of player play multiplayer. And there are dedicated Cold War servers for such modules. I think that an experienced player could hold his own in a Mirage III against MiG-19, MiG-21 or F-5.
Yeah! And didn't he pronounce it like "be-dong'" or something like that? I dunno I haven't watched that episode with subtitles.......yet. :3 And yeah, delicious video
Definitely enjoyed this video, the music was great, reminds me of my time in the Sandbox. Both models look great like the paint scheme on the 21 and the Mirage look great. 4k monitor are you using? Picture quality Outstanding
Thank you for your comment again! As for the monitor, I only have an ordinary 1080p. In fact, the detail level on the game is set to about medium due to the strength of my PC. I try to make up for it with camera angles, filters and editing.
You made those landings look easy and slow. They were two of the fastest landing early jets that required full attention to get right. I think the Mirage 3 has a landing speed of close to 300 mph. As a kid in Malaysia I used to sit at the end of the runway at Butterworth and watch the Mirage takeoffs and landings. The landings in particular were amazing and terrifying at the same time. Thank goodness for a long runway 😂
I am from India and I love Dassault Mirages! I love french Aircrafts a lot! My Favourite delta wing fighter is the Mirage 2000 and Rafale is my favourite Delta Canard Wing Fighter! Keep up the good work sir!
@@showtime112 no problem and btw Happy new year to you in advance though! It's not just Delta wing design though, I love many other Aircraft design as a whole.❤️
Actually the MiG-21F-13 did have a radar, but it was only a small ranging radar to assist with employment of the gun. The radar on the Mirage III was originally coupled to the gunsight and was supposed to provide a very accurate firing solution for the cannon, but as you noted, in reality proved unreliable and practically useless. However, the Israelis developed a mechanical solution for the gunsight that permitted accuracy as long as the pilot ID’d his target in advance and knew the wingspan of the target aircraft, which would be dialed into the sight to provide range information.
Mig, legenda naših balkanskih napaćenih RV-a. Užitak mi je bilo voziti ga u Strike Fighters.. Preporučujem ti da probaš i tu igru, nije Bog zna šta, ali interensantna je..
The MiG-21 was always so crude looking to me. But they were effective and that's all that matters. Those Israeli Mirages were cool looking with the polished finish. You should do a video when Iranian F-4s were spooked away by F-22s. Even though nothing came of it I'd still like to see a reenactment since there's no actual footage and add comedic relief. I know that's not your style but it'd definitely be watched by me.
Thanks for the comment and suggestion. It would actually be a challenge to make an interesting, at least five minutes video about this event. It would help if radio communication recording was available. But, if I get an inspiration for it, I might give it a shot!
@@showtime112 I bet if there was footage and audio, it might be classified for certain amount of time before it could be released, or unless the freedom of information act could be used, but being that's military related I doubt it. That would be cool though!
@@orneryokinawan4529 I will try to look into the conditions for declassification of audio recordings in such cases. I don't remember finding anything more recent than Desert Storm but who knows.
What was the best turning/ straight up gun fighting jet of this era? I know the F-8 was called “the last gunfighter” but I wonder which was best at low , medium and high altitude in a close range turning dogfight? Anyone ?
I don't think there's one single answer. Subsonic designs such as MiG-17 could out-turn pretty much any supersonic aircraft, especially at lower altitudes. But it had a slow roll rate at higher speeds. Hunter was very maneuverable too. MiG-21 had slightly better turning rate than the Mirage III but Mirage was better in other aspects. As for high altitude, really not sure about that since air combat rarely took place there.
Everytime I see planes drop their external tanks I just think....what if I were down there when they were dropped ? LOL Maybe bam ! right on my backyard pool while I was having a bbq 😜
Yeah, most people don't think about that. My aunt witnessed an American bomber dropping a fuel tank during WWII. Landed on a feild nearby and still had fuel in it .
I think about that, too. Plus machine gun (cannon) rounds that dont hit their mark. They gotta land somewhere. Not to mention aircraft (or pieces of them) that get shot down. That could suck. Unless in the (fairly likely, i would think) situation that a pilot is fatally wounded in the cockpit without any serious damage to the aircraft (kinda like Richtofen) and lives just long enough to bring his craft to a succesful landing in a field next to your house. If youve got some flying experience you could just grabb his keister up outta the cockpit and takeoff for a joy ride
During the Korean War there were incredible, unconventional air conflicts on two different occasions-- The Hawker Sea Fury shot down a MIG-15 and The AU4 Corsair also shot down a MIG-15! Doesn't stop there, Vietnam-- A-1 Skyraider shoots down MIG-17 I believe on two separate occasions!! Request-- Do your best to recreate one of these Historical Scenarios👍
@@miquelescribanoivars5049 I see you think its funny that a F-94 was lost to a maneuver kill, I think it's funny that slow garbage with small radar cross section (why it was difficult to engage) was ALSO shot down by a Skyraider👍
Early heatseeking missiles didn't have seeker head cooling in them and since heat signature of jet engine is on the lower end of infra red portion they had difficulty seeing it specially in environments with high ambient heat in the picture, such as desert or tropical could, American pilots had this trouble over Vietnam that their missiles were coming off the ramp, make their spin and start following the sun, or a large could reflecting its light, there are even reports of first gen sidewinders deciding to go after a tin covered roof instead of their intended target... with introduction of cooled seeker head, most of these problems were mitigated...
That's right, it was a very immature technology at this point. Some were joking that early air-to-air missiles required a full cooperation of the target 😁
Basically, those airplanes need to be trimmed all the time. But this might be related to the old controller I was using at the time. It was acting silly from time to time.
@@showtime112 Looking ahead to the Operation Rolling Thunder over North Vietnam, more than a few dogfights ended with both sides (F4 v Mig21) would sling atolls and sidewinders and sparrows at each other with no results (in one case, one pilot had no idea he was even under fire) and lacking internal cannons, they just disengaged and called it a draw. If Marshall Michel's book 'Clashes' made any relevant points it's that the early USAF missiles were not called 'hIttles' for a reason and that a Mig 21 was VERY hard to see, and when you could see it, it was already within atoll range.
It's not anything new. Arab airforces were comprised of mostly non Arab personnel at the time due to Arab pilots not being very good in operating the aircraft.
@@gamecar7721 You can find it on this link: www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/ That's the basic, free version with Caucasus map and two airplanes, Su-25T and unarmed P-51 Mustang.
@@showtime112 Mig 21 in Indian hands, fancy that. Man behind the machine. it's Mridang, an Indian instrument. The music is good though. Your videos are good and have been watching them from some time. Keep up the great work.
@Lana Rasic Bilo je i pogodaka topovima :) U osnovi, meni je ova misija čak i zanimljivija od neke 'klasične'. Ovo jako dobro ilustrira kako su ofenzivni sistemi poput raketa bili još vrlo nerazvijeni i kakva je općenito bila situacija u lovačkoj avijaciji tih godina. Nagli razvoj gdje nisu uvijek svi elementi jednako brzo išli naprijed.
@ Emilio, Showtime112 has mention that very clearly in the Video already.🤷♂️ He is one of the guys who is always very accurate when ist comes to the Description of the content in his historical Videos. 👍
@@showtime112 he provides disclaimers due to the limitations of the program. He does in all videos where their is a discrepancy. He says it at 7:00 minutes into the video.
The reason that the Israeli Air force dominated in 1967 and 1973 was that they built their own air to air missiles that were vastly superior to what they had in 1964!
Shafrir 2 was a failure too. Argentine Air force use it in 1982 with very poor results. A good idea for a next video is the last figth of Tte. Ardiles in a IAI Nesher alone against 2 Sea Harriers.
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
I LOVE this idea of re-enacting historical actions using the WONDERFUL graphics of this system. Minus all the cheesy "shockwave" and fly-by effects you see on some of the History Channel "Dogfight" programs, I think these prove that the events portrayed are plenty interesting and dramatic enough without "the Hollywood Treatment".
In the weapons discussions, it is interesting to note that both the East and West blocs went through those periods where they stupidly thought that the early radar- and infrared missiles would completely replace cannon, and sent large numbers of aircraft into battle with "one hand tied behind their backs" in a figurative sense. Headshakingly stupid.
Thank you for your comment and positive opinion! I was partially inspired by the Dogfights but sometimes they could have turned it down a notch perhaps.
You are right about those misconceptions about missiles present in both sides during the Cold War. Perhaps it's easier to be smart now but they definitely overlooked a lot.
@@showtime112 People in both the East and the West went so far as to declare the "end of the dogfight" as they stupidly stripped aircraft of cannon and fit them with limited loadouts of missiles that were more likely to go ballistic than to track anything airborne (they were even more likely to try to shoot down the sun as to track on an afterburner). One early model of the legendary F-4 Phantom was one example.
@@showtime112 awesome video.sadly i will never get a chance to get my wings,either as a military or civilian pilot.🥺😢😢
I have several Mirage 3 models in that livery. They are simply gorgeous planes,
These older silver and camouflage liveries generally look much better than the more recent grey ones.
@@showtime112 agree, I love these classic liveries
Nice video Showtime ^^ One thing I would like to say is that the appreciation that the MiG-21 was designed as an interceptor aircraft is not really correct, unfortunately this concept is very widespread so it's a bit of a tough nut to crack. The MiG-21 was really envisioned as a tactical fighter, with it's primary focus being put on achieving high speeds with a decent amount of maneuverability for air to air combat against other fighters. This was mostly a response for the experience in the Korean war, where both the MiG-15 and Sabre were quite equally matched, and how one of the better advantages the MiG-15 had over the older US fixed wing jets before the Sabre arrived was speed.
The original armament and systems show this: the first MiG-21F had no missiles, only a pair of cannons, with a simple radar ranging gunsight similar to the F-86 Sabre. The plane was not suited for interception work in the late 50s, it would have been limited to daylight and fair weather conditions, it would have to locate it's target visually and then attack with cannons, exposing itself to the bomber rear guns which at this point usually were radar assisted cannons.
Soviet interceptors at the time were envisioned with a proper fire control radar and missile only armament, to engage bombers from stand off range away from their gunners, and very little (if any) focus in anti-fighter work. Examples of these would be the Yak-28P, Tu-128 and Su-9.
There were interceptor variants of the MiG-21, the PF and derivatives, as you said in the video those had missile only armament as standard and they had a radar capable of locating, tracking and guiding radar guided missiles, but this was building upon the original design, as it was usually done with other MiG fighters (missile only MiG-17PFU and MiG-19PM).
Sorry for the wall of text ^^
Thank you for contributing that. We can always learn more about this, the most fascinating period in military aviation.
There seems to be a general perception these days that fast and with no or poor independent search capability = interceptor, but the reality is that during the Cold War (and especially early on), almost nobody had a good independent search capability and the supposedly free-roaming USAF/USN were just as reliant on control from the ground or AEW&C as the Soviets... and honestly they still are, the difference is that they have a little more flexibility in how they execute actual engagements and their chain of command is immensely complicated. Pretty much everyone took the same lesson from WWII, and so the emphasis was always on speed and climb rate through the late 40s, 50s, 60s, and even well into the 70s. Nobody wanted to be at the mercy of an opponent who could fall on them from above, then climb away from each attack with impunity. Agility was a luxury, and one the MiG-21 was well ahead of its peers with - few of the fighters before the F-15, 16, 18, MiG-29, or Su-27 were very agile by comparison to those later jets, and the MiG-21 had low-speed handling and instantaneous turning ability that was up there with the best until the 70s. The quickest way to determine if a Soviet fighter was actually an honest interceptor is to see if it served exclusively in the PVO (other than recce/bomber roles for some like the Yak-28, MiG-25). If it did, it was an interceptor. If it served in the VVS as well, it was usually a single variant development of a tactical fighter tailored to the air defence role (MiG-19P, MiG-21PF/PFM, MiG-21bis izd. 75B, MiG-23P). If it served only in the VVS, it was a fighter through and through.
Soviet/Russian literature often makes the distinction even more clear: types are explicitly described as "frontal fighter" vs "interceptor" or "fighter-interceptor".
@@rossmum More contribution. Thanks!
@@showtime112 i agree its fascinating, but the most fascinating? Maybe...and i mean its ultimately subjective but just wondering why you think it is.
@@blackbaron2572 It is definitely subjective. I think I could sum it up by saying that this period had just the right amount of technology. Aircraft performances grew at an incredible pace. But they still needed to get close to each other to fight. And there were many wars where both sides had military aviation in that period. In the last 20 years, it's mostly asymmetrical warfare, dropping JDAMs on insurgents. Not so exciting :)
Mirage is a cool plane... we used to get visiting RAAF Mirages here in NZ... looks like a dart... I have seen a Mig 21 warbird here on static display.. 2 great planes 👍🇳🇿
Thanks for commenting!
Enemy 1: "Ugh, my weapons won't work to kill you."
Enemy 2: "Same - Let's RTB, get that stuff fixed and kill each other later."
Enemy 1: "Sounds good. L8ts!"
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣 E2 , meanwhile, let's check out for a beer E1
Look at all those beauitful sexy Metal shining Mirage‘s III rolling out of the Hangars to the runway. 👀A other great inside view of what Happend in 1964👍 I love it when you fly the 60th‘s event‘s with the Mirage IIIC that’s the way it’s done right.😉 And not with a Mirage 2000🤷♂️ like some other RUclipsr do it.
Thanks for the comment, once again. I was reading the Duel book MiG-21 vs Mirage III and this story seemed like the real thing to do. I find it even more interesting than the 'regular' conflicts where someone gets shot down!
As long as you keep your radar off and you use the proper weapons for it most people won't even notice that this was a more modern Mig-21. I only knew this was a Mig-21 Bis because I play DCS, but otherwise you could have told us that was what a Mig-21 F13 looked like and I wouldn't have known otherwise.
There's always someone who 'notices' and usually in that 'I didn't know that.....' tone. I know that comments are good for videos but sometimes I get tired of explaining that I can make these videos by approximating some assets or I couldn't make them at all. So I add these disclaimers in the narrative but that doesn't seem to help either 😁
If only we had a Mirage III module that was accurate.
It seems that Razbam started working on it. There are some pictures of wip 3d models on their site but they are from 2017. There's also a FB post from 2020 but the models are apparently on the same level they were in 2017.
It will be outclassed on any multiplayer server sadly
@@reefta Not very relevant. ED always repeats that only a very small percentage of player play multiplayer. And there are dedicated Cold War servers for such modules. I think that an experienced player could hold his own in a Mirage III against MiG-19, MiG-21 or F-5.
The beauty of the mirage !! 👌👌
Few people can design them like the French 😁
@@showtime112 it looks like works of art or haute couture 😁😁👌
yes amazingly sexy & I don't say it cause I'm a Frogg 🐸🐸
Feels like I'm watching a movie.
Thanks for making these videos.
Thanks! That is what I aim for 😉
Always amazing and interesting videos, as usual
Thank you very much for the comment!
Like Giora Epstein said about early missiles they drop like a badoon - fuel tank. Great video.
Thanks! Yes, this was one of the early efforts of Israeli military industry. They would eventually get much better :)
Yeah! And didn't he pronounce it like "be-dong'" or something like that? I dunno I haven't watched that episode with subtitles.......yet. :3
And yeah, delicious video
Lol the 1st isreali short rage ifra red Shaffer 1 missile! And yes he called the be-donks!🤣
no it burns like that brow
Definitely enjoyed this video, the music was great, reminds me of my time in the Sandbox. Both models look great like the paint scheme on the 21 and the Mirage look great. 4k monitor are you using? Picture quality Outstanding
Thank you for your comment again! As for the monitor, I only have an ordinary 1080p. In fact, the detail level on the game is set to about medium due to the strength of my PC. I try to make up for it with camera angles, filters and editing.
You made those landings look easy and slow. They were two of the fastest landing early jets that required full attention to get right. I think the Mirage 3 has a landing speed of close to 300 mph. As a kid in Malaysia I used to sit at the end of the runway at Butterworth and watch the Mirage takeoffs and landings. The landings in particular were amazing and terrifying at the same time. Thank goodness for a long runway 😂
I am from India and I love Dassault Mirages! I love french Aircrafts a lot! My Favourite delta wing fighter is the Mirage 2000 and Rafale is my favourite Delta Canard Wing Fighter!
Keep up the good work sir!
Thank you for watching and commenting! I can understand why you love delta fighters.
@@showtime112 no problem and btw Happy new year to you in advance though!
It's not just Delta wing design though, I love many other Aircraft design as a whole.❤️
Actually the MiG-21F-13 did have a radar, but it was only a small ranging radar to assist with employment of the gun.
The radar on the Mirage III was originally coupled to the gunsight and was supposed to provide a very accurate firing solution for the cannon, but as you noted, in reality proved unreliable and practically useless. However, the Israelis developed a mechanical solution for the gunsight that permitted accuracy as long as the pilot ID’d his target in advance and knew the wingspan of the target aircraft, which would be dialed into the sight to provide range information.
That's true, thanks for contributing!
I can see 2 elegant beasts fighting each other
Two classic designs from my favorite period!
What an unexpected outcome :)
Yeah. A shootdown would be way too predictable 😁
Mig, legenda naših balkanskih napaćenih RV-a. Užitak mi je bilo voziti ga u Strike Fighters.. Preporučujem ti da probaš i tu igru, nije Bog zna šta, ali interensantna je..
Malo možda arkadna za moj ukus :) Zasad sam u DCS-u a uskoro izgleda i IL-2. Hvala na komentaru!
a good video as always! thanks!
Thank you very much for your comment, I'm glad you liked it!
Wars are usually fought with weapons designed for a completely different type of war.
Yes, this is very often the case.
Great job as always! 👍
Thank you very much! Keep watching!
Now THAT was an education!!! Great job!
Thanks, glad you liked it!
The MiG-21 was always so crude looking to me. But they were effective and that's all that matters. Those Israeli Mirages were cool looking with the polished finish. You should do a video when Iranian F-4s were spooked away by F-22s. Even though nothing came of it I'd still like to see a reenactment since there's no actual footage and add comedic relief. I know that's not your style but it'd definitely be watched by me.
Thanks for the comment and suggestion. It would actually be a challenge to make an interesting, at least five minutes video about this event. It would help if radio communication recording was available. But, if I get an inspiration for it, I might give it a shot!
@@showtime112 I bet if there was footage and audio, it might be classified for certain amount of time before it could be released, or unless the freedom of information act could be used, but being that's military related I doubt it. That would be cool though!
@@orneryokinawan4529 I will try to look into the conditions for declassification of audio recordings in such cases. I don't remember finding anything more recent than Desert Storm but who knows.
those israeli Mirage 3's looks so sharp.
French design is among the best 😁
What was the best turning/ straight up gun fighting jet of this era? I know the F-8 was called “the last gunfighter” but I wonder which was best at low , medium and high altitude in a close range turning dogfight? Anyone ?
I don't think there's one single answer. Subsonic designs such as MiG-17 could out-turn pretty much any supersonic aircraft, especially at lower altitudes. But it had a slow roll rate at higher speeds. Hunter was very maneuverable too. MiG-21 had slightly better turning rate than the Mirage III but Mirage was better in other aspects. As for high altitude, really not sure about that since air combat rarely took place there.
@@showtime112 thanks
Really interesting thank you.
Yeah, as soon as I read the description of this historic event, I wanted to do a video about it. Thanks for the comment!
Well, maybe those planes are not as effective as they should be, but they sure look cool. 😁👍🏻
Definitely! A lot cooler than the fifth generation..... but that's probably just subjective.
where did you get the mirage?
It's a VSN mod, you can find it on this link:
www.lockonforum.de/community/thread/8294-mirage-iii-c-s/?s=a12fb1aaad02c704e2dfe2897f754d5d5e91447c
For some interesting stories check "Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces" by Shlomo Aloni
Thanks for the suggestion. I own that book and if we had a proper Mirage module, I'd be doing a lot of those stories!
where's the israeli mirage from? is it some self model by someone? or is it just the M-2000 model with a skin?
It's a mod done by VSN. You can download it (and many other mods) here:
www.lockonforum.de/community/board/10-mods/
If I'm not mistaken, could this be the first EVER engagement between two supersonic fighter jets?
That might be true. I'm trying to remember if anything happened before that but nothing comes to mind.
Great !!
Thank you for the feedback!
very good
Thanks!
Terrific English in the subtitles, I must say
Oh, those are automatic. In the more recent videos, I edit them manually but I haven't fixed all the older videos yet.
the mirage 111 vs. mig-21-fishbed. these fighters the balance of military power. both carry cannons and missiles.
is the mirage 3 in the base game or it a mod?
It's a mod by VSN. It's relatively simple and it uses FC3 cockpits and avionics.
Everytime I see planes drop their external tanks I just think....what if I were down there when they were dropped ? LOL Maybe bam ! right on my backyard pool while I was having a bbq 😜
Yeah, most people don't think about that. My aunt witnessed an American bomber dropping a fuel tank during WWII. Landed on a feild nearby and still had fuel in it .
I think about that, too. Plus machine gun (cannon) rounds that dont hit their mark. They gotta land somewhere. Not to mention aircraft (or pieces of them) that get shot down. That could suck. Unless in the (fairly likely, i would think) situation that a pilot is fatally wounded in the cockpit without any serious damage to the aircraft (kinda like Richtofen) and lives just long enough to bring his craft to a succesful landing in a field next to your house. If youve got some flying experience you could just grabb his keister up outta the cockpit and takeoff for a joy ride
I played Jane's IAF: Israeli Air Force for a long time. :)
Good old days 😁
@@showtime112 Oh yeah!
Dassault fighter jets, fly and fight with class…!
Exactly!
" The only holy war is the one that is not committed," Sun Tzu or Confucius may have said. Winning a war by aesthetic seduction, a whole art 😇😇
During the Korean War there were incredible, unconventional air conflicts on two different occasions-- The Hawker Sea Fury shot down a MIG-15 and The AU4 Corsair also shot down a MIG-15! Doesn't stop there, Vietnam-- A-1 Skyraider shoots down MIG-17 I believe on two separate occasions!! Request-- Do your best to recreate one of these Historical Scenarios👍
*Laughs in a Po-2 maneuver killing a F-94.
@@miquelescribanoivars5049 huh?
@@miquelescribanoivars5049 I see you think its funny that a F-94 was lost to a maneuver kill, I think it's funny that slow garbage with small radar cross section (why it was difficult to engage) was ALSO shot down by a Skyraider👍
@4one14 right, really wish he would do my request... lol he keeps on doing essentially the opposite🙃
P-47, P-51, Super Tucano, Spitfire, OR Hawker Hurricane VS MIG-15!! Spread the word lol make my request your own ;)
you could make a video about the egyptian mig21 that shot down a libyan mig 23
This is in a long term plan.
Early heatseeking missiles didn't have seeker head cooling in them and since heat signature of jet engine is on the lower end of infra red portion they had difficulty seeing it specially in environments with high ambient heat in the picture, such as desert or tropical could, American pilots had this trouble over Vietnam that their missiles were coming off the ramp, make their spin and start following the sun, or a large could reflecting its light, there are even reports of first gen sidewinders deciding to go after a tin covered roof instead of their intended target... with introduction of cooled seeker head, most of these problems were mitigated...
That's right, it was a very immature technology at this point. Some were joking that early air-to-air missiles required a full cooperation of the target 😁
لطفا یه شیمیل بامرام تماس بگیره مرسی خیلی دلم میخواد یکی، معرفی کنه،
from the cut tibia of our ancestors, we're moving forward, man, we're moving forward but,
The Mirage is an Haute Couture gemstone
😅🤣
😁
Plz make a video of Capt Lutz israeli pilot shot down by Pakistani pilot flying a Syrian mig 21
I need to do some research on that.
I would like to have F13 and PF and MF variants
Me too, especially PF. That one along with several similar modifications really saw plenty of combat.
3:30 is your MiG out of trim? She's bouncing around!
Basically, those airplanes need to be trimmed all the time. But this might be related to the old controller I was using at the time. It was acting silly from time to time.
The Israelis called the Shafrir-1 the 'bidon' or 'wing tank', for it's habit of hitting the ground instead of the enemy. It was THAT bad.
Israeli military industry has come a long way since those days :)
@@showtime112 The almighty Python 5 is testament to that!
Chad Delta wing without tail wing versus Delta wing with Tail wing
Exactly! And nose cone against regular nose :)
Well...looks like both of them can return home to their family...I would say they were lucky the weapons were shit XD
That's a very positive way of seeing things! :)
@@showtime112 Looking ahead to the Operation Rolling Thunder over North Vietnam, more than a few dogfights ended with both sides (F4 v Mig21) would sling atolls and sidewinders and sparrows at each other with no results (in one case, one pilot had no idea he was even under fire) and lacking internal cannons, they just disengaged and called it a draw.
If Marshall Michel's book 'Clashes' made any relevant points it's that the early USAF missiles were not called 'hIttles' for a reason and that a Mig 21 was VERY hard to see, and when you could see it, it was already within atoll range.
Sattar Alvi of Pakistan Air Force had shot down Israeli Mirage using the Syrian Mig-21. Let that sink in.
It's not anything new. Arab airforces were comprised of mostly non Arab personnel at the time due to Arab pilots not being very good in operating the aircraft.
This was a fight of a blind against lame.
You could describe it like that :)
Dcs world downloading ???
What do you mean?
@@showtime112 Where can download dcs world??
@@gamecar7721 thru Steam its for free but not all aircraft are available
@@gamecar7721 You can find it on this link:
www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/
That's the basic, free version with Caucasus map and two airplanes, Su-25T and unarmed P-51 Mustang.
@@showtime112 thank you
Is that an AI only Mirage III model?
You can fly it however, it uses F-15 cockpit and only has a standard flight model.
yeah upgrade the Mohd of the mig like a dart 🎯
just quitley though please not to our leaders though
Why does it have Indian music at the beginning...?
Well, it's not precisely Indian. And it's quite hard to find good royalty free music specific to the Middle East.
@@showtime112 Mig 21 in Indian hands, fancy that.
Man behind the machine.
it's Mridang, an Indian instrument. The music is good though. Your videos are good and have been watching them from some time. Keep up the great work.
👍 👍 👍
Thanks for your comment!
Iskreno ja ne bi ovaku misiju!
U kojem smislu?
@Lana Rasic Bilo je i pogodaka topovima :) U osnovi, meni je ova misija čak i zanimljivija od neke 'klasične'. Ovo jako dobro ilustrira kako su ofenzivni sistemi poput raketa bili još vrlo nerazvijeni i kakva je općenito bila situacija u lovačkoj avijaciji tih godina. Nagli razvoj gdje nisu uvijek svi elementi jednako brzo išli naprijed.
Bonjour a tous du Canada All the dashboard of soviet airplane are colors turquoise why
👍🤘
Hvala na komentaru!
PAF MM Aalam killed 5 hunter IAF jets in two minutes in war of 1965..
add some hebrew / arab rock music , it will make the show entertaining
Probably, but the choice of royalty free music is quite limited.
Sexy mirage 3
Yes, the French know how to design pretty things :)
Сделайте русские субтитры пожалуйста
I don't speak Russian. But, many videos have hand edited English subtitles and you can activate automatic translation to Russian.
SORRY FOR THE SPOILER,BUT,AS FAR AS I KNOW BY 64 THERE WERE NO FISHBED J OR K AS THE ONES DEPICTED
Please watch the video before commenting like that!
@ Emilio, Showtime112 has mention that very clearly in the Video already.🤷♂️ He is one of the guys who is always very accurate when ist comes to the Description of the content in his historical Videos. 👍
@@showtime112 he provides disclaimers due to the limitations of the program. He does in all videos where their is a discrepancy. He says it at 7:00 minutes into the video.
@@LockOnNow Thanks for that!
the two enemies the french mirage vs. soviet mig-21- bis. three 30mm vs.one 23mm. the mirage always win.
There's at least one case when MiG-21 won. It's confirmed by Israeli sources. There is a video about that on the channel.
Jajaja que tendrá que ver el calibre!
The reason that the Israeli Air force dominated in 1967 and 1973 was that they built their own air to air missiles that were vastly superior to what they had in 1964!
Later Shafrir models were superior to the original one, that's true.
Shafrir 2 was a failure too. Argentine Air force use it in 1982 with very poor results. A good idea for a next video is the last figth of Tte. Ardiles in a IAI Nesher alone against 2 Sea Harriers.