It's weird how willing you are to demean and debase yourself to keep attention on yourself, Greg. Near 50 year old people typically don't do that because it's strange to be that thin skinned and insecure and how it makes you look to other adults.
@@jaromor8808you hear the word Jew and randomly bring up israel being N*zis? Ever think you're the N*zi? Are all the Jews to blame for what the israeli government does? If not then why bring up israel? I think I know why, starts with A and ends with M.
@mattball420 bro your hivemind group think behavior bashing religion(Objectively a good impact on society). Atheism has a death toll since 1880 with estimes of 120-200 million deaths... you're not a contrarian you just agree with everyone else who's edgy
I mean it's true lol, he seems like a genuine guy trying to help people get into shape but then you see the prices of his supps, book and coaching and you're like wow.....this mf just wants to be rich and promote his shit.
Greg started out well calling out fake natties and being honest about steroids but it's so obvious he's run out of topics and now he's just saying whatever will get him attention
What do you think 99% of fitness content is?Absolutely unnecessary bullshit mills. Eat good, sleep well, train consintently, don't do steroids like a pussy. No need for more. But we are still watching like consumerist pigs.
Have you even watched the recent videos its far cry from what you describe the recent videos are i think the most entertaining and knowledgeable imo and not to mention he is supporting and keepin the sports industry in check.
@@mehboob9101I’ll answer this as another former subscriber. I have not and don’t care to because he went full drama to the point where I was getting 5 videos from him a day just beefing with people I didn’t care about. It was stupid so I quit watching and he lost my attention forever. Who cares
I finally lost my interest and respect for Doucette when he went after Fikshun, and he betrayed his personal bias by mentioning his "alleged" martial arts skills. Not relevant to his original critique and just an "ad hominem" attack.
Personal beefs aside, this is a fascinating conversation about the difference between a formal debate and a informal polemical debate. I was on my high school debate team, and for years afterward I operated under the delusion that people would respect the rules of formal debate, and how a winner is decided. They don't. People respect their feelings.
I found that to be an interesting insight too. Although I’ve learned to accept the rules of the game of life the way they are. And they’re not close to any ‘ideals’ of fairness, of rationality, of justice or of anything else.
True... So... Why debate? A debate should not be done "realtime", especially in front of an audience. This also applies to political debates. However a question answer session, and then a well crafted series of debate points sounds like it can meet all criteria. A "debate" changes an exchange of ideas using Logos and brings in Pathos. Obviously if you have audience manipulation as a core skill you want to do things to maximize your influence. But the ideas take a beating.
also people forget the point of a debate is to win over the people observing the debate, NOT to change the mind or views of the person you are debating.
@@45johngalt that would be the purpose of an informal debate (eg: the US presidential debates... which many people are surprised to learn are NOT formal debates) since the candidates are pandering to the general population, rather than to a panel of judges. In a formal debate, the purpose to is the convince the judges to give your side the most points. What the audience thinks has no bearing on this.
I unsubscribed to Greg awhile back when his channel went from fitness information to nothing but drama and tearing people down. He recently said in a collab video that he knows exactly what he's doing, which is essentially stirring the pot. Life is too short for that, but to each they're own.
Snake oil at least has some protein, I guess. Depends which part of the snake they make it from. So it's still better value for money than turkesterone
@@TheEvolver311 libertarianism has nothing to do with that. I'm liberatarian and I don't like him. Most libertarians I know are actually genuinely good people. Which is precisely why they are libertarians.
So Mike is talking about a debate he had with Greg 4 years ago. He's since been on Greg's channel having a friendly conversation that was posted 3 years ago. I think Mike knows setting Greg up for response videos is just going to boost views for both of them. I'm here for it, of course.
Good point about the fake personality. Greg is, or was I should say a genuinely nice guy. But his angry parrot persona is what grew his channel. He has said this many times, blaming his viewers every time yelling “I GIVE YOU GUYS CALM GREG BUT GETS NO VIEWS SO IM GIVING THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT”. Problem is, he’s leaned into this persona so much that it’s really who he is now. There’s a reason why his circle is no longer with him, ex gf, ex best friend.
I liked him when he was just sitting at his desk. Now I'm surprised he doesn't sit behind his freaking wall of products and scream through it. Guy got way too negative and loud
it's kinda like what happened Nick Avocado. Started out as a nice, polite, soft spoken, vegan dude who loves violin. Ended up as an rude, loud, angry fat dude who would eat and say the most disgusting shit for views, because it gets the view.
@SuperElite27000000 please tell me how he will ever beat the shit out of dr mike? You realise dr mike is a brown belt in bjj yeah? Greg isn't shit, they've met in real life before and dr mike took the piss right to his face and greg went in his little bubble and took it like the little bitch he is 😂
@@SuperElite27000000bro awesome!! You know Greg?? How crazy!! I didn’t believe you the first seven times you commented this on someone else’s comment but now I’m sold!! You going to yerk Greg while they fight or are you on ball cradling duty? Lmk! 🎊 🎉😊
How Mike describes how Joel presents during debate is 100000% accurate. He will often try to become friends with you so you don’t blast him for his wrongdoing. On Mark’s podcast he was able to say how the stuff he post on social is just click bait!
Greg's channel is 90% entertainment 10% education. It's his business model. Mike's channels is probably 90% education and 10% entertainment. And guess what the majority of people who watch Greg's channel probably are just looking for entertainment.
both are like 90% entertainment. There's not much to educate about in fitness really. You don't need to make daily videos if your purpose is to educate. Both of them are all about money
@@qwerty-rh6htYes they both have program apps but Mike and Jeff are science backed, that's why they have so much respect for each other, Mike has also interviewed more entertainment based creators that create within the field of bodybuilding and he does roast them, and they often feel very starstruck because Mike israetel is just that kind of smart guy in the room that makes everyone feel a little stupid. Mike doesn't just say what he thinks, he shares studies that back what he has learned.
Dr. Mike accurately describes the issue with debating at around 9:00. He's right. An audience doesn't pay too much attention to the logic of the point; they're just very focused on rhetoric or the presentation of the debater. It makes it very difficult to be objective about who won.
@@Inventor1488 What I'm saying is that you can have the most sound argument in the world, but if the audience doesn't like your delivery, you'll lose the debate.
@@swandaleyIt's exactly why people should aspire towards ideas not people but far too many people are caught up in ego and pride to see past people and especially to see past themselves. You can see with how remarkably judgemental society is.
I used to like Greg, but after the turkesterone incident, it was obvious that he is not honest and his main thing is to make lots and lots of money anyway, being right or wrong doesnt matter.
Greg Doucette's channel is an example of tabloid journalism aimed at gymbros. It's not supposed to be taken seriously, it's low-brow, guilty pleasure entertainment.
@@SuperElite27000000 bro awesome!! You know Greg?? How crazy!! I didn’t believe you the first seven times you commented this on someone else’s comment but now I’m sold!! You going to yerk Greg while they fight or are you on ball cradling duty? Lmk! 🎊 🎉😊
When i started my fitness journey. I took advice from numerous fitness influencers, did my own research and created my own plan that wirks for me. People overthink these things. You dont have to pick sides, on certain influencers you like or dislike.
It is very similar with how Elves and Dwarves hate each other in Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit , except in this case Greg is more like a Keebler/Santa elf (Mike is just legitimately a guy who works in the mines in like Mount Gundabad)
It's more of the common enmity between men under 5 and a half feet tall who think adding as much muscle as possible to their diminutive frame and posting using camera angles that don't show how short they are will conceal the fact that they are halflings created to be crushed under foot by men of stature
Greg sold me multiple bottles of fake Turk when I was first into lifting…my fault for being so gullible…but he refuses to address all the people he ripped off about a year ago and sells “real Turk” now so it’s all good
@@frontierlandfrank5314 super weirdo pointing out a guy selling supplements to increase testosterone was crying about his government not getting him his testosterone.
@@freakied0550 there’s a massive difference between replacing non existent testosterone and taking supplements that support higher levels. Apparently you’re too low iq to differentiate. Again, the video was necessary.
@@freakied0550coming from a guy who could sell one of his McLarens and import enough raws to manufacture enough testosterone cypionate for every man in a small country to be juiced to the gills
The age old story of how debate works… Gish gallops and all. Good video. As a casual with limited time, it is always hard to figure out who the good guys in this space are.
@@justinlast2lastharder749 to be fair to Wanderlei he was going life or death with Rampage Chuck etc. Influencers just juice to market to gullible tweens and adults that dont know any better.
Greg is the king if drama. If Dr.mikes specialty is hypertrophy, Gregs is stirring shit up. As soon as it comes to the drama aspect, you will lose. It would be like if i had a pure intellectual debate on hypertrophy with Dr.Mike I would immediately be out of my depth.
The Greg Doucette thing is a little weird. I get it, RUclipser's chase clicks and drama (or create it) and I know nothing about bodybuilding (I just watch some of the channels because it's interesting) but I do know if a guy, in this case Doucette, says he's not jealous or envious of a competitor 2-3-4 times in a single video. Something's going on there. "The lady doth protest too much."
@@DMX2050 Mike is rather popular, though, as is Greg. So I imagine they are each appealing in some way. I suspect Mike's gruff persona adds to his credibility in the eyes of some people. They perceive it as straight talk, without any fluff.
One thing these days, in terms of this discussion, in terms of politics, in terms of basic facts even is that people don't feel like it's okay to tell people that they're wrong. You can't say no, he's wrong or lying and here's proof, people will just ignore that and keep thinking what they want to.
Remember when Greg did that video calling the Korean dude a fake natty... Then he went completely the other way after getting threatened by his legal team. 😅
Kim Jong Kook is the body builders name and Greg bet $1000000 USD and Greg still hasn't fulfilled that part of his bet. For being so rich and flaunting it, he sure doesn't like to pay up, even when he's the one who made the bet :P
@@Drewstein69 Did they agree to the bet? You can't make the bet unless both sides have something to lose, and there's pressure to actually provide facts. If the other side doesn't want to shake on it (perhaps he doesn't want his life being examined publicly), then the bet wasn't made. It just becomes "hyperbole", and can be changed when he sees the facts.
genuine or not, his advice is with good intent even if he is punching at you. People are stubborn and have egos and will not make a change to their lifestyle for the better until they are punched at enough. His advice to dr. mike and his professional career was very true and necessary. doesnt matter if dr. mike likes it or not, he has rage, he has ego, but greg is saving his life.
Is Greg Mike's dad? Doctor? Wife? What place does Greg have to talk a bunch of shit to Mike and claim the "it's genuine tough love I'm trying to help". That's not Greg's place. Valid criticism is invalid if it comes from an invalid source. Greg is using Mike as clout and masking his open clout chasing with "good intentions". It's bad faith and Mike has absolutely every right to be upset.
@@carstontoedter1333 That's it guys, you can't tell someone to get off drugs unless you're their friend or daddy. Greg is just telling him what's the best for him. It's still Mike's choice in the end and sadly he made a stupid one
Most people aren't familiar with the structure of a debate. They go by what they feel and not what is real. They feel their opinion is valid, so they dismiss the facts. It's not about what you say it's how you say it. They get triggered by tone. The guys that appear to win the debate, use an emotional intelligence to win over/ manipulate the audience. They're not arguing in good faith. That's why they won't concede any points.
Yeah, the mindset of "I am DEFINITELY smarter than him, so I must be right and he must be wrong" will undoubtedly lead someone, who is perhaps intelligent and educated, to distorted understanding of reality. I seen too much
To be fair though, Greg did not stand up for anything in the debate. His strategy was to be nice and weasel around that as opposed to backing it up actively. Facts don't care about feelings and in that regard, its fair for Mile to be frustrated and think he is smarter simply because Greg is likely clueless in that debate topic and saving face with good pr among fans.
@@goonerboy6371 Being nice is now considered a proof of being wrong now? That's a weird mentality. I also don't think he should "stand up" for anything, because why should he? If you're not 100% sure something is true, don't try to convince yourself or anyone it's 100% true. Otherwise you're being irrational. Btw, he did "stand up" though, more like explaining himself clearer since the other side is bad at listening, when Mike said he's being arbitrary with the 10%, he replied basically an arbitrary standard is needed for clueless average people. I don't know how "likely" Greg is clueless about the "topic", which is not very clear to me either. And I bet the other are pretty clueless as well, because throughout the "debate" they were just arguing over nothing, like "average people are more likely to undertrain, or overtraine", wtf. But here show a key difference, while neither side have realiable statistic or "facts" on their side, Greg immediately admit his limits, he's not "sure of himself" to an unecessary degree, that alone makes him appears more rational to me. And there's some stawmaning happened there, implying Greg's encouraging people to always train to failure, which is really bad faith interpretation of Greg's word. I don't know why exactly Mike is so frustrated, but I do know people irl get frustrated over petty trivial matters, all the time, so his "feelings" and emotions can't really tell us anything about Greg or the rationality of their arguments.
@@lcrow3104 Dr. Mike is mad because of the shit talking behind the back where Greg claimed Dr.Mike was wrong about assertions on training volume and when this was brought up in the debate, he was not justifying it and tried to weasle around it. Look up the video on it with an open mind. I get that its part of Greg's youtube persona to call people out for clicks/engagement and say they are wrong but if you call someone out like that, you should be able to justify or atleast defend your position. We know that studies on hypertrophy is evolving but there are some things that were said by Greg thats widely considered out of date even if it was back in 2018. Being nice has no direct corelation to being wrong. However, in Greg's case he was being nice with an ulterior motive to make Dr.Mike look bad because he was all at sea in the debate and had nowhere to go. Its a common strategy we see in political debates as well where the person who has no argument appeals to the naivety/prejudice of the viewers who fail to see the point that being nice and appearing pleasant is not the same as crushing someone in a debate objectively. But again, if you already made up your mind and resonate with Greg's way of training and thinking, its hard to see things objectively. I have seen enough of these two to call it as is and understand why Dr.Mike thinks Greg is two faced
@@goonerboy6371 How exactly is he "talking behind" Mike's back when he's literally talking on yt? I watched it with an opened mind which is why I say they arguing over nothing. Their view aren't even contradicting that much, they just say thing under different contexts, which make them uncomparable or undebatable. Or maybe I missed something because I didn't watch it very carefully, you may want to point out the specific. To say someone using a strategy to make you look bad in a debate is just not a very strong position to defend yourself. If this was a political stage, and Greg or Mike has to argue against a corrupt politician, I'll expect him to rip other apart. But this is not that, I expect everyone to act like decent and calm person, and prove their points by simply being articulated. If Mike has really persuasive arguments and he can express himself well enough, there's no reason he can't defeat his opponent without appearing hostile. Seeing things objectively is much harder than most people think. Btw, I watch Greg for entertainments
Keep coping sub 5. Everyone who’s watched both of their content can tell dr mike is more educated. You’re just playing devils advocate because your life is boring. Greg sells falsities that people pay money for
Mike can talk down on Greg all he wants, but the fact of the matter is Greg knows what it takes to be an IFBB pro bodybuilder and Mike does not. Greg was absolutely bang on saying Mike just doesn’t know what a dialled in award winning physique is supposed to look like and how to get there, and there’s no disputing that. You can have all the professional accreditations in the world, but that doesn’t necessarily translate when it comes to all things bodybuilding etc. The Tren use at Mike’s age is ridiculous too, taking such a harmful / destructive substance in your latter years for little to no reward is hugely irresponsible.
To be fair, Mike KNOWS what it takes, he is just not able or willing to DO what it takes. (and possibly he just doesn't have a genetic shot in hell) And you know what they say, "Those who are not able to do, teach". Dr. Mike is a fantastic teacher. When people stay in their lane, they usually find massive success.
@@HeadCannonPrime So you’re telling me Mike is willing to take highly damaging substances like Tren to be successful in bodybuilding, yet he can’t be bothered to diet correctly and do the consistent cardio that is needed?? That argument in of itself paints an even worse picture of Mike and his bodybuilding goals. Anyone can pin any drug going as there’s no work in that, the work starts with making the necessary sacrifices in terms of your lifestyle (eating and being more active etc).
We also have to consider that those most emotionally effected by the debate tend to be the ones that comment. I remember my reaction even though the doucette debate happened years ago, and I was agreeing with Mike the whole time but I never left any trace/comment. Most people who agreed with Mike probably never left a comment.
Didn’t Mike get famous for punching up constantly (I know he’s right more often than not in the case of celebrities training being bad) but objectively speaking there’s quite a lot of hypocrisy there
Gregs whole channel is clickbaity and chasing clout by making videos on other people. Mike mostly does educational videos and a ton of podcasts, with some videos where he reviews others training regiment, and he is not always making fun of the person but making more of a joking video (Ronnie, Bloat god, just on top of my head). The frequency of those videos is just on another level for Greg, where all he does is make videos on others.
Keep on fighting the good fight guys. I'm never gonna be impressed with dudes can quarter squat a bunch of weight, but struggle to bend over and pick their kid up off of the ground.
Won't deny Greg is tabloid Journalism. But he is one of the few fighting the glorification of PED use, Mike has also done some good work in that area. Other than them and a few others, the industry is full of negligent influencers stoking the fire. Til' others make an effort, Greg and Mike are one of the only good guys in that area. I apologize to any influencers I did not mention who are also advocating natty.
So sick of you all natural little girls. Who cares if someone you don't know use steroids? I mean really does it bother you that much people you never meet use steroids? Lol why does anyone care what anyone else does??? Oh is it all about the children? Lololo
It seems abundantly clear that Greg Doucette is only motivated by money and has figured out that publishing three drama videos which are 50% him selling supplements is the best way to make money.
Dude thinks greg was trying to play mental games when in reality he just knew that nobody would debate him if he screams in their ear for hours at a time
He did, he pointed out that Greg is manipulative and he played his part well. He basically baited emotional response from Mike and then acted as if he had done nothing wrong.
@@Tespri you are really overthinking it. From what I have seen of Mike in public, he always acts like a douche and hides behind the "Im awkward in social settings" excuse to blatantly be an asshole. Not to mention he has talked about having thoughts of killing dogs and about hurting others countless times. It is time to take off the rose tinted glasses my friend
@@Tespriit’s not hard to bait an emotional response from Mike… if you tell him his favourite cereal sucks he will say “ All I think about is violence “ or some crazy stuff. Watch his interview with the other Dr.Mike. I like Mike I for his training videos but he’s a bit of a nut case
At least Coach doesn’t insult Mike just for the pleasure of insulting Mike. He uses mike’s situation and name to then share great information to his viewers. There was a certain animosity in Mike’s words about Greg, which I find to be quite immature lol
Context is one the most important things to have before you form your perspective around anything. Asking yourself "why" to anything can go a long way.
I was subscribed to Greg for a while but after his videos became less about lifting and fitness and more about what Sam Sulek was doing wrong I unsubscribed and then subscribed to Sam
The fanboys are already starting to flood the comments, so I'll just tell everyone to watch Revival Fitness to see Greg debunked and discredited entirely (for years, without Greg ever responding)
Dr. Mike and Greg Doucette make the same types videos. They ridicule, or in their eyes, “provide truth and facts” to the community about people’s fitness philosophies and methodologies that they think is wrong. Both educated people who use science as their scapegoat to harshly criticize fitness content creators. Whether they are right or wrong in their examinations of other people’s work, whether you trust what Dr. Mike says or what Greg says - they are one of the same person. Their goal is the same.
I do think Dr Mike is an asshole, but I do think he only reserves his ridicule for people that are grossly incompetent in something they should know better, or are actually malicious, I think most his critiques are reasonable and he gives credit where it’s due and I also think he provides a lot of value in his content. I think Greg is also an asshole, but an inflammatory one that intentionally makes people upset to start drama for the purpose of driving clicks and is a lot less fair in his criticism and I think his content is less valuable in general. I think Dr Mike makes good videos and is just an abrasive asshole as a person, while Greg makes significantly less good videos and goes out of his way to be more of an asshole
I don't keep with all the back and forth and drama between these two, but I lost a lot of respect for Mike when he said Gregg claims to be a doctor it was so obviously dishonest and unfair. I also did watch a bit of Greg's recent videos on Mikes quest to get a pro card and he was 100% on the money. I think Mike makes better content, but there's something about his personality that rubs me the wrong way.
I did the exact same thing, was about to come around and resubscribe as Greg has done nothing but praise his channel and how well he is doing. This bs rant of Mike's just seems like bitterness.
It's his libertarian nonsense. He is obviously too smart for his own ideology and career, but his weird childhood trauma does not let him go. I love the guy regardless.
@@andrewzach1921 why would mike care if greg says good things about his channel? At the end of the day, Greg is still using his Harden than Last Time messaging. Which was just know is not only bad advice to the average youtube bro, but is going to get people hurt. He's still pushing his ever more expensive cook books. And he's push massively over priced supplements. Greg could buy Mike 100 Lambo's and Mike should still think Greg's scum. Because he just is.
It's interesting how a lot of this lines up with the concept in psychology of Foxes and Hedgehogs. Foxes (Dr. Mike and Zack) tend to be more cognitively flexible and open to nuance and contradiction. Hedgehogs (Greg Doucette & Joel Seedman), tend to have one big idea and confidently stick to it, sometimes to their detriment. Neither is bad inherently, although in this case the two hedgehogs are behaving poorly.
I think that is hitting the nail on the head. Greg only agrees with his very narrow viewpoint and is completely closed off from changing his mind, whereas Dr. Mike and Zach are open to new information when it comes up.
not really. I don't see Greg in either camp. He is just commentary noise in the background. And Seedman is a total shill. I actually think he is being contrarian on purpose for the clout. His ideas are so out there he is the flat earther of fitness.
@@the_odd_cat553 that’s the whole point - he sticks to science, and if the science changes, he changes his thinking. Greg refuses to do so, even when faced with overwhelming evidence.
Tbh that interview with Mike & Greg was the first time I discovered Mike and I have been following RP since. I feel like Greg just wanted to learn in that debate, but yeah I did not see the original video of Greg roasting Mike
Say whatever you want about him. But him being one of the few influencers that will go out of their way to tell people not to take steroids earns my respect. Mike might have the best info but I thinks it's evil for him to be taking steroids to compete.
I don't care about Joel Seedman one bit, but in the context of sports and lifting, powerlifting and weightlifting are what's most accessible for general public folks, and we don't have to be afraid to say that's where injuries happen most commonly.
The weird thing about it all is that Greg and Mike actually did a video on Greg's channel AFTER the debate on Omar's channel... that's so odd hearing Mike's current thoughts.
You need to do a higher effort video if you want people on your side. When I tell folks about my sociopath ex , I need to in depth describe what she did else I look just like the aO. Same here. I'm not watching the 4 year old debate. You gotta recap. But hey. Just like Greg, you both like those Lamborghinis, you keep pumping out somewhat lower effort stuff recently
To me Mike is losing his appeal. Before the prep for the show, he seemed a little more light hearted and funny. Now it’s all depression and anger. His tone is so unhappy now. It’s all negative, it’s all hate towards everyone else, inflated self ego. It’s not a good look
@@camiloorsini9674 He is still coming off his PEDs and dealing with a shitload of anxiety caused by cognitive dissonance. I think when he is de-loaded and gets into a good working headspace he will be better. Although he is getting WAY richer and that tends to f'up people's brains. (20 years ago Elon wasn't a james bond villain)
1:58 that's exactly what happens with the diets. It's easier to tell people "hey, don't eat fats" or "don't eat carbs" than explaining that you can have a balanced diet without as many restrictions and it's easier to sell programs and attack other people
I don't know about the debate and start of the beef between Greg and Mike. But Greg doesn't trash talk you in his videos. He might disagree or share his honest opinion...which can come across as shitting on you, like how you should stop body building, but that's not because he doesn't want you to achieve your goal, but because if it comes at the cost of abusing high amounts of PED's that is going to be detrimental to your health for something you really don't need to prove. I've watched most of his fitness related videos for the past few years, and he generally agrees with your views on training, perhaps not bulking if that's something you do. He does speak about up and coming fitness youtubers / social media presences too, with not that many followers which is nice as it gives them more exposure. You are right his persona online can be different than in real life, but he's open about that and has said it is for entertainment. Coming with an open mind to a debate is also a good thing, if you are closed-minded you won't change even if you are wrong. Jordan Peterson, a clinical psychologist also mentions how it's not only about "winning" a discussion, but testing what you know and what you can possibly learn from the conversation. I like and follow both of you guys, because you both follow the science, truth and have good values.
Watching the fitness word is interesting. Mitch Hooper just made a video of Joel. Mitch who is also well educated. Disagreeing on rep ranges seems kind of silly. Everyone agrees you have to go hard to get gains. Full range of motion is important, and the stretch is more important. Greg is very clear about his approach. He makes sensational videos to get views. He wants to be educational, but sensational headlines/hyper energy is what gets people to watch, but he says he doesn’t want to do it. And at the end of the day, he’s a business, so he’s doing what works. But he’s pretty consistent on what he says to people in person. Watch the videos he made with Mitch hooper. He’s calmer to engage with because the solo videos are hyper exaggerated.
Greg is a literal millionaire. He doesn’t need to stoop so low to make money, yet he chooses to. He still pushes supplements (some of which have zero scientific backing) like they’re the best thing in the world. I’m not going to support a millionaire’s decision to push drama and fake/useless supplements just so he can continue to rake in money.
This conversation has relevance in day-to-day interactions that have nothing to do with training or youtubers, especially with regard to who looks "mean" or "nice" vs. who is right and who is honest.
@@jacccs What is this emotional response, if you feel insulted from a critique you can always choose to ignore it. But if a lot of people are saying the same insult maybe they are not insulting you but you are getting offended from what seems a general observation.
@@gaymer5697 greg doesn't make salient points, he's just a snark drama channel that insults people, why respond honestly to someone acting in pure bad faith?
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 I don't get the whole genetics thing he and everybody else keeps talking about. Being 5'6 is the polar opposite of good genetics.
Funny enough, the Greg debate was the first time I heard of Dr. Mike. I thought he was a douche at the time but have since ended up unsubscribed from Greg and subscribed to Dr. Mike after watching more of his videos.
To be fair, all Greg does is punch up, but usually to gripe about something specific, and almost exclusively because he's judging someone as deficient at some capacity. It not like he's meanderingly going after Athlean X or the bulk of influencers he actually likes lol. Though the hyperfixation on Mike has been somewhat silly. Mike saying he's doing it for clout is a little funny given Greg's already openly said he's going after Mike because of how popular Mike is, its not much of a secret, lol.
@@nm2358 how would me deleting my message show you how to delete yours? Press those three little dots next to ur name on this comment and hit delete. You’re welcome in advance
Mike has 0 argument here. How is it no possible for Greg to know how to play the game on RUclips and also be genuine. Mike literally can’t give one constructive criticism about Greg
Mike sees Greg's Maclaren and just sees red. Mike is on tooo much gear and basically admits it. Greg is on so much gear most people couldn't tolerate it.
this happens to dave farina whenever he debates science deniers, sometimes it's even flat earth supporters and ppl will still say that dave is being mean or something. unbelievable
Because people literally didn’t pay attention in school. And then they turn around a say school is made to dumb you down and keep Knowledge from you. They are idiots. A great example I had recently was a guy that was talking about how is training and energy got so bad when switching to a carnivore diet. I remember freshman year learning in biology that we need amino-acids(proteins), lipids(fats), and glycogen(carbs) for the building blocks of our body. Of course you feel like shit. Your body doesn’t have the lipids it needs to build hormones, your muscles don’t have the energy nor carbs it needs to hold water and function properly. And his brain was also probably running on E. The dumbest part is he thought his testosterone would go up. What would your body to to make testosterone? Him cutting out majority of his lipids and assuming he will make testosterone is the equivalent of cutting out all protein and thinking your body will make muscle out of carbs. I knew this at 14 because I paid attention….
Greg Doucette plays a character, true, but his words are not false. People keep saying, "I think his products are bullshit and bad." That's fine, but what does that have to do with the advice he gives? Has it ever been straight wrong or even harmful? "I don't think he's actually a nice guy," again, if this is true or not, it means nothing because that is not what his videos center on. He's not claiming to be this angel come from Heaven to help the needy, he's just giving advice to people who he feels needs it based on his knowledge and experience. I am baffled as to why people paint Greg as some devil in disguise. People, please get over yourselves.
well, Gret says a lot of wrong things. Because he bases everything ONLY on his experience. At least this was the case when I watched him, a year or two ago.
Dr. Mike.. When Greg talks about you he's actually agreeing with a lot of stuff you are saying and tue parts he disagrees with he explains why.. You really checked him as a ****sucker and a sociopath after he's done 1 or 2 videos about you? Also.. why use that insult? Its not wrong to be gay
Get your popcorn ready!!!
First
@@gregdoucette more like Greg Douchette 😂
It's weird how willing you are to demean and debase yourself to keep attention on yourself, Greg. Near 50 year old people typically don't do that because it's strange to be that thin skinned and insecure and how it makes you look to other adults.
@@avaibootHAA. GOOD ONE. No one’s ever heard of that one🤦🤦🤦
Based on how many videos you have on Dr.Mike, he lives rent free inyour head LOL
10 consecutive Greg videos incoming 😅
Yep, which will consist of non-ending yapping and excuses and lies
i hit the do not recommend this channel on greg like 3 years ago and my algorithm took a giant breath of fresh air
he's already made one
ive blocked his channel, if you watch two videos you hear him shouting in your sleep
This is why I stopped watching Greg long time ago,his channel has been a drama channel for long time, only callout for clout chasing
You know Dr. Mike has serious beef with Greg when he makes a positive Hitler analogy as a Jewish guy himself 💀
It's jew on jew crime?🫡
current Israel would make the OG Nutzzies proud af
He is pissed that Greg's juicing didn't triple his head size like him
@@jaromor8808you hear the word Jew and randomly bring up israel being N*zis? Ever think you're the N*zi? Are all the Jews to blame for what the israeli government does? If not then why bring up israel? I think I know why, starts with A and ends with M.
@@jaromor8808seems as if you're the nutzzee.
"Talking *cookbook*"
This is peak editing
Ty, I could not understand what it was lol!
🤣🤣
His new censor word is “TURK” now it’s not cookbook anymore
I died when I noticed that the first time lol
😂😂😂
Gregs new clickbait title:
Dr. Mike said, "Hitler is bad, but he's right."😂
Genuine liberal logic nowadays😂
@@glizzygoblin1933were working out piss ant not voting
@@glizzygoblin1933Nazis don't vote blue homie
Lol what are you on about?@@glizzygoblin1933
@@glizzygoblin1933 username checks out
Greg's video about this video is going to be fun.
he sounds like a crybaby
He’ll be butthurt for sure
He’s already done a video about this podcast episode I wonder if he’s gonna do a follow-up.??
If only was a video... I estimate at least five...
@@sun6262-no lol Greg got em crying lol grown ass men
"Hitler is better at physics than Mother Theresa"
-Dr. Mike Israetel
Like Ronnie Coleman? @@mattball420
@@mattball420- I’d probably ask a flat earther first for homework help 😂
@@mattball420 damn these Newton and Heisenberg guys must've been ass at physics
Gotta love dr israetel lmfao
@mattball420 bro your hivemind group think behavior bashing religion(Objectively a good impact on society). Atheism has a death toll since 1880 with estimes of 120-200 million deaths... you're not a contrarian you just agree with everyone else who's edgy
"The least genuine person I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with", just OOF
he still does need to get off the gear and quit trying to get that pro card though. That criticism was valid from Greg
I mean it's true lol, he seems like a genuine guy trying to help people get into shape but then you see the prices of his supps, book and coaching and you're like wow.....this mf just wants to be rich and promote his shit.
@@shoobzy3431underrated comment. I think you're spot on 💯
@@shoobzy3431I mean you don't have to buy it, doesn't he provide free recipes and information and such? Buy his stuff if you want to be spoonfed.
@@shoobzy3431 Everyone tries to make more money, don't fool yourself
Greg started out well calling out fake natties and being honest about steroids but it's so obvious he's run out of topics and now he's just saying whatever will get him attention
What do you think 99% of fitness content is?Absolutely unnecessary bullshit mills. Eat good, sleep well, train consintently, don't do steroids like a pussy. No need for more. But we are still watching like consumerist pigs.
Have you even watched the recent videos its far cry from what you describe the recent videos are i think the most entertaining and knowledgeable imo and not to mention he is supporting and keepin the sports industry in check.
So ur pea brain is entertained by calling out fake natties???
its not even my opinion that Greg's content is way better now than it was.
@@mehboob9101I’ll answer this as another former subscriber. I have not and don’t care to because he went full drama to the point where I was getting 5 videos from him a day just beefing with people I didn’t care about. It was stupid so I quit watching and he lost my attention forever. Who cares
I finally lost my interest and respect for Doucette when he went after Fikshun, and he betrayed his personal bias by mentioning his "alleged" martial arts skills. Not relevant to his original critique and just an "ad hominem" attack.
Personal beefs aside, this is a fascinating conversation about the difference between a formal debate and a informal polemical debate. I was on my high school debate team, and for years afterward I operated under the delusion that people would respect the rules of formal debate, and how a winner is decided. They don't. People respect their feelings.
I found that to be an interesting insight too. Although I’ve learned to accept the rules of the game of life the way they are. And they’re not close to any ‘ideals’ of fairness, of rationality, of justice or of anything else.
True... So... Why debate? A debate should not be done "realtime", especially in front of an audience. This also applies to political debates. However a question answer session, and then a well crafted series of debate points sounds like it can meet all criteria. A "debate" changes an exchange of ideas using Logos and brings in Pathos. Obviously if you have audience manipulation as a core skill you want to do things to maximize your influence. But the ideas take a beating.
also people forget the point of a debate is to win over the people observing the debate, NOT to change the mind or views of the person you are debating.
@@45johngalt that would be the purpose of an informal debate (eg: the US presidential debates... which many people are surprised to learn are NOT formal debates) since the candidates are pandering to the general population, rather than to a panel of judges.
In a formal debate, the purpose to is the convince the judges to give your side the most points. What the audience thinks has no bearing on this.
I have been quite the opposite. I always did poorly at formal debates due to my inability to follow those conventions.
I unsubscribed to Greg awhile back when his channel went from fitness information to nothing but drama and tearing people down. He recently said in a collab video that he knows exactly what he's doing, which is essentially stirring the pot. Life is too short for that, but to each they're own.
he doesn't tear people down. he tells you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. literally
Yes he says he knows what he is doing. He also said he uses it entertain and educate.
@@user-sx2rn5sl3m Jonni Shreve tells it like it is
@@user-sx2rn5sl3mNeed eh.
@@user-sx2rn5sl3m what exactly do i not want to hear?
Aw man, when I saw the thumbnail/title I was really hoping for a 18 min rant on Greg doucette
There is a bit of nonsense at the start, but it gets better several minutes later.
Click bate.
Skipped around lol
Thats the beauty of time stamps!
Same here
It's an insane level of whiplash to watch Greg finish a video debunking some nonsense and the flip the switch and start shilling his snake oil.
He's a libertarian
Snake oil at least has some protein, I guess. Depends which part of the snake they make it from. So it's still better value for money than turkesterone
@@TheEvolver311 libertarianism has nothing to do with that. I'm liberatarian and I don't like him. Most libertarians I know are actually genuinely good people. Which is precisely why they are libertarians.
How long did you take it for? To come out talking like you are you must have tried it. @@ashscott6068
@@Tespri exactly. The shade at libertarians made no sense.
So Mike is talking about a debate he had with Greg 4 years ago. He's since been on Greg's channel having a friendly conversation that was posted 3 years ago. I think Mike knows setting Greg up for response videos is just going to boost views for both of them. I'm here for it, of course.
Greg has done a ton of recent videos on Mike.
There's definitely something to that lmao
Greg has also made a lot of videos on Mike since then
It’s pretty one sided bro. Greg is obsessed with Mike and it shows
@@mikehuff9793 Id say its the opposite.
Good point about the fake personality. Greg is, or was I should say a genuinely nice guy. But his angry parrot persona is what grew his channel. He has said this many times, blaming his viewers every time yelling “I GIVE YOU GUYS CALM GREG BUT GETS NO VIEWS SO IM GIVING THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT”.
Problem is, he’s leaned into this persona so much that it’s really who he is now. There’s a reason why his circle is no longer with him, ex gf, ex best friend.
Hes a known snitch in the anabolic circles
I liked him when he was just sitting at his desk. Now I'm surprised he doesn't sit behind his freaking wall of products and scream through it. Guy got way too negative and loud
@@je7647so? 🤷♀️
it's kinda like what happened Nick Avocado. Started out as a nice, polite, soft spoken, vegan dude who loves violin. Ended up as an rude, loud, angry fat dude who would eat and say the most disgusting shit for views, because it gets the view.
The nice-guy persona is most likely an act too.
Greg is making a video as we speak.
I know Greg and he said he'd beat the living shit out of Mike if they ever met again.
@SuperElite27000000 please tell me how he will ever beat the shit out of dr mike? You realise dr mike is a brown belt in bjj yeah? Greg isn't shit, they've met in real life before and dr mike took the piss right to his face and greg went in his little bubble and took it like the little bitch he is 😂
@@SuperElite27000000bro awesome!! You know Greg?? How crazy!! I didn’t believe you the first seven times you commented this on someone else’s comment but now I’m sold!! You going to yerk Greg while they fight or are you on ball cradling duty? Lmk! 🎊 🎉😊
@@Skylarhoosmedia lmao
LMfA0
How Mike describes how Joel presents during debate is 100000% accurate. He will often try to become friends with you so you don’t blast him for his wrongdoing. On Mark’s podcast he was able to say how the stuff he post on social is just click bait!
I stopped watching him when he was found out to be lying about turkesterone. Its funny seeing this video. people still calling him out on his bull
Love the “Cookbook” censorship noise😂
Yeah that is pretty funny hehe
Makes it unlistenable IMO, but to each their own
It's 🔥🔥
Annoying as fuck
@@DontStandForNothingwomp womp
Greg's channel is 90% entertainment 10% education. It's his business model. Mike's channels is probably 90% education and 10% entertainment. And guess what the majority of people who watch Greg's channel probably are just looking for entertainment.
both are like 90% entertainment. There's not much to educate about in fitness really. You don't need to make daily videos if your purpose is to educate. Both of them are all about money
@@qwerty-rh6htYes they both have program apps but Mike and Jeff are science backed, that's why they have so much respect for each other, Mike has also interviewed more entertainment based creators that create within the field of bodybuilding and he does roast them, and they often feel very starstruck because Mike israetel is just that kind of smart guy in the room that makes everyone feel a little stupid. Mike doesn't just say what he thinks, he shares studies that back what he has learned.
Think both are 50/50
@@SaggyGerbilsstill watch greg over this guy tell him to chill on the drugs snd get his head straight snd maybe.
@@qwerty-rh6ht what do you mean there's not much to educate about fitness? and it can be both for the money and education
Dr. Mike accurately describes the issue with debating at around 9:00. He's right. An audience doesn't pay too much attention to the logic of the point; they're just very focused on rhetoric or the presentation of the debater. It makes it very difficult to be objective about who won.
Explain more
@@Inventor1488 What I'm saying is that you can have the most sound argument in the world, but if the audience doesn't like your delivery, you'll lose the debate.
@@swandaleyIt's exactly why people should aspire towards ideas not people but far too many people are caught up in ego and pride to see past people and especially to see past themselves. You can see with how remarkably judgemental society is.
I used to like Greg, but after the turkesterone incident, it was obvious that he is not honest and his main thing is to make lots and lots of money anyway, being right or wrong doesnt matter.
Have you tried it?
Calling Greg a sellout is an insult to sellouts.
He showed that already when the first cookbook came out.
and he STILL plugs his "Turkbuilder" product on his channel even after that.
@@danielquintieri why would you waste your money on a supplement whose efficacy is completely unproven?
Greg Doucette's channel is an example of tabloid journalism aimed at gymbros. It's not supposed to be taken seriously, it's low-brow, guilty pleasure entertainment.
exactly it used to have decent stuff when he started off but than it just became trash and click baity af
It's mainly a vehicle for hawking supplements.
he calls out the bs in the fitness industry/space, nothing wrong with that
100% accurate, thank you. Mike taking it seriously is sad
The sad part is people take him seriously and think he is right 100% of the time. He has his own douchette army.
Waiting for the coach Greg response video harder than last time
🎯🎯🎯
I know Greg and he said he'd beat the living shit out of Mike if they ever met again.
Give me some time. I got so many vids on the god
@@SuperElite27000000 What kind of bullshit are you talking about? 😂😂😂😂
If he tries he is dead 😂😂😂😂
@@SuperElite27000000 bro awesome!! You know Greg?? How crazy!! I didn’t believe you the first seven times you commented this on someone else’s comment but now I’m sold!! You going to yerk Greg while they fight or are you on ball cradling duty? Lmk! 🎊 🎉😊
When i started my fitness journey. I took advice from numerous fitness influencers, did my own research and created my own plan that wirks for me. People overthink these things. You dont have to pick sides, on certain influencers you like or dislike.
You are correct this generation of internet people are so polarised
Bro thinks everyone’s his tren-emy.
Does that mean Mike is gear-ing up for a fight?
@@Crush1084
Nice. 🤘🏼
Mike will anavar forgive Greg
When they say "win the crowd," essentially, they're saying, "win over the majority, who are emotional idiots"
Indeed. When Team3DAlpha debunked Greg's bullshit, he sent an army of crying fanboys against him. It was terrible to see
American politics, amirite
@@DILFDylF The Cat ladies and Incel army.
@@DILFDylFHahahahahaha 😂 huhuhuhuhuhuuuu 😭
Thats how woke mainstream media works, on emotion, relying on all the virtue signaling leftists to not think critically.
I wonder who's ribcage Mike imagines ripping open
It is very similar with how Elves and Dwarves hate each other in Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit , except in this case Greg is more like a Keebler/Santa elf (Mike is just legitimately a guy who works in the mines in like Mount Gundabad)
I think you mean Khazad-Dum, I don’t remember any dwarves mining at Gundabad……. 🤓
It's more of the common enmity between men under 5 and a half feet tall who think adding as much muscle as possible to their diminutive frame and posting using camera angles that don't show how short they are will conceal the fact that they are halflings created to be crushed under foot by men of stature
Aren't they both close to the same height?
Dwarves from different castes are as s3ctarian as they come
Theyre the same height lol. Mike is 1 inch shorter?
Dr. Mike, you rock! You bring actual data to RUclips. We need more of you. Keep it up, please!
Coudn't agree more, and have definitely fallen for the "this guy seems nice" feeling while watching debates. Great stuff, Zack!
Might wanna lay of the 41 rules of power or whatever that book is
coach greg happier then last time
Than*
Voice gonna be higher than last time
Fr Greg's like nice he took the bait.
Thought Mike would be smart enough to avoid this lol
@@mitch5944❤😂🎉
@@mitch5944 he keeps falling for it too 😂 every time he mentions Greg, he’s falling for it
Greg sold me multiple bottles of fake Turk when I was first into lifting…my fault for being so gullible…but he refuses to address all the people he ripped off about a year ago and sells “real Turk” now so it’s all good
Lol yeah right buddy I bet
Imagine needing Turk to get big. NGMI
If your dumb enough to buy a fucking plant hormone to make yourself big then I have no sympathy for Greg taking your money lol
Sure buddy. Total BS post.
I mean even real Turk is still a scam. It doesn't work based on the research.
For what it's worth, Greg does punch way down. I got my own video from him 😅
You were being a weirdo. It was deserved.
@@frontierlandfrank5314 super weirdo pointing out a guy selling supplements to increase testosterone was crying about his government not getting him his testosterone.
@@freakied0550 there’s a massive difference between replacing non existent testosterone and taking supplements that support higher levels.
Apparently you’re too low iq to differentiate. Again, the video was necessary.
@@frontierlandfrank5314apparently Greg's supplememts do shit. Now stop simping, kiddo
@@freakied0550coming from a guy who could sell one of his McLarens and import enough raws to manufacture enough testosterone cypionate for every man in a small country to be juiced to the gills
The age old story of how debate works… Gish gallops and all.
Good video. As a casual with limited time, it is always hard to figure out who the good guys in this space are.
Mike and Zack go up in my esteem. Two very smart guys. Keep it up.
Just remember… Greg tried to advocate for Lu being natty
Lmao that's ridiculous
I swear the man just has takes like that to get people talking
Thinks Lean Beef Patty is natty too even though she runs from Testing more than Wanderlai Silva.
@@justinlast2lastharder749 to be fair to Wanderlei he was going life or death with Rampage Chuck etc. Influencers just juice to market to gullible tweens and adults that dont know any better.
@@justinlast2lastharder749🙉
Greg is the king if drama. If Dr.mikes specialty is hypertrophy, Gregs is stirring shit up. As soon as it comes to the drama aspect, you will lose. It would be like if i had a pure intellectual debate on hypertrophy with Dr.Mike I would immediately be out of my depth.
Ones an IFBB professional, the other wans to be
@@k.o.o.p.a.So is Arnold so feel free to listen to him and workout 5 hours a day doing 50 sets of chest.
@@Brc-kg1mg I will thanks. I will not, however, ever want to look like DrKike.
@@MrSinister718Wow. Going racial slurs there. Raising the bar on quality conversation.
@@Apeshower Whoops. Typo. Who put the M next to the K?!
The Greg Doucette thing is a little weird. I get it, RUclipser's chase clicks and drama (or create it) and I know nothing about bodybuilding (I just watch some of the channels because it's interesting) but I do know if a guy, in this case Doucette, says he's not jealous or envious of a competitor 2-3-4 times in a single video. Something's going on there. "The lady doth protest too much."
Mike forgets to tell people that it was he who attacked Greg first and made false accusations against him
Greg is smart and Mike comes off like an angry and mentally weak person.
@@DMX2050 Mike is rather popular, though, as is Greg. So I imagine they are each appealing in some way. I suspect Mike's gruff persona adds to his credibility in the eyes of some people. They perceive it as straight talk, without any fluff.
9:32 Can't wait for this to be taken out of context 😂
Oh lord, this might go viral someday 😂
One thing these days, in terms of this discussion, in terms of politics, in terms of basic facts even is that people don't feel like it's okay to tell people that they're wrong.
You can't say no, he's wrong or lying and here's proof, people will just ignore that and keep thinking what they want to.
Remember when Greg did that video calling the Korean dude a fake natty... Then he went completely the other way after getting threatened by his legal team. 😅
Kim Jong Kook is the body builders name and Greg bet $1000000 USD and Greg still hasn't fulfilled that part of his bet. For being so rich and flaunting it, he sure doesn't like to pay up, even when he's the one who made the bet :P
Probably cause the guy really ain’t natty and his country even knows this. Where’s his blood work then?
@@Drewstein69 Did they agree to the bet? You can't make the bet unless both sides have something to lose, and there's pressure to actually provide facts. If the other side doesn't want to shake on it (perhaps he doesn't want his life being examined publicly), then the bet wasn't made. It just becomes "hyperbole", and can be changed when he sees the facts.
Can't wait for Greg's video response to this video 🤣 he's going to go all "cookbook" on this... harder than last time
KOOOOOK
BOOOOOOOK
genuine or not, his advice is with good intent even if he is punching at you. People are stubborn and have egos and will not make a change to their lifestyle for the better until they are punched at enough. His advice to dr. mike and his professional career was very true and necessary. doesnt matter if dr. mike likes it or not, he has rage, he has ego, but greg is saving his life.
Is Greg Mike's dad? Doctor? Wife? What place does Greg have to talk a bunch of shit to Mike and claim the "it's genuine tough love I'm trying to help". That's not Greg's place. Valid criticism is invalid if it comes from an invalid source. Greg is using Mike as clout and masking his open clout chasing with "good intentions". It's bad faith and Mike has absolutely every right to be upset.
@@carstontoedter1333 That's it guys, you can't tell someone to get off drugs unless you're their friend or daddy.
Greg is just telling him what's the best for him. It's still Mike's choice in the end and sadly he made a stupid one
Most people aren't familiar with the structure of a debate. They go by what they feel and not what is real. They feel their opinion is valid, so they dismiss the facts. It's not about what you say it's how you say it. They get triggered by tone. The guys that appear to win the debate, use an emotional intelligence to win over/ manipulate the audience. They're not arguing in good faith. That's why they won't concede any points.
Yeah, the mindset of "I am DEFINITELY smarter than him, so I must be right and he must be wrong" will undoubtedly lead someone, who is perhaps intelligent and educated, to distorted understanding of reality. I seen too much
To be fair though, Greg did not stand up for anything in the debate. His strategy was to be nice and weasel around that as opposed to backing it up actively.
Facts don't care about feelings and in that regard, its fair for Mile to be frustrated and think he is smarter simply because Greg is likely clueless in that debate topic and saving face with good pr among fans.
@@goonerboy6371 Being nice is now considered a proof of being wrong now? That's a weird mentality. I also don't think he should "stand up" for anything, because why should he? If you're not 100% sure something is true, don't try to convince yourself or anyone it's 100% true. Otherwise you're being irrational. Btw, he did "stand up" though, more like explaining himself clearer since the other side is bad at listening, when Mike said he's being arbitrary with the 10%, he replied basically an arbitrary standard is needed for clueless average people.
I don't know how "likely" Greg is clueless about the "topic", which is not very clear to me either. And I bet the other are pretty clueless as well, because throughout the "debate" they were just arguing over nothing, like "average people are more likely to undertrain, or overtraine", wtf. But here show a key difference, while neither side have realiable statistic or "facts" on their side, Greg immediately admit his limits, he's not "sure of himself" to an unecessary degree, that alone makes him appears more rational to me.
And there's some stawmaning happened there, implying Greg's encouraging people to always train to failure, which is really bad faith interpretation of Greg's word.
I don't know why exactly Mike is so frustrated, but I do know people irl get frustrated over petty trivial matters, all the time, so his "feelings" and emotions can't really tell us anything about Greg or the rationality of their arguments.
@@lcrow3104 Dr. Mike is mad because of the shit talking behind the back where Greg claimed Dr.Mike was wrong about assertions on training volume and when this was brought up in the debate, he was not justifying it and tried to weasle around it. Look up the video on it with an open mind.
I get that its part of Greg's youtube persona to call people out for clicks/engagement and say they are wrong but if you call someone out like that, you should be able to justify or atleast defend your position.
We know that studies on hypertrophy is evolving but there are some things that were said by Greg thats widely considered out of date even if it was back in 2018.
Being nice has no direct corelation to being wrong. However, in Greg's case he was being nice with an ulterior motive to make Dr.Mike look bad because he was all at sea in the debate and had nowhere to go. Its a common strategy we see in political debates as well where the person who has no argument appeals to the naivety/prejudice of the viewers who fail to see the point that being nice and appearing pleasant is not the same as crushing someone in a debate objectively.
But again, if you already made up your mind and resonate with Greg's way of training and thinking, its hard to see things objectively. I have seen enough of these two to call it as is and understand why Dr.Mike thinks Greg is two faced
@@goonerboy6371 How exactly is he "talking behind" Mike's back when he's literally talking on yt? I watched it with an opened mind which is why I say they arguing over nothing. Their view aren't even contradicting that much, they just say thing under different contexts, which make them uncomparable or undebatable. Or maybe I missed something because I didn't watch it very carefully, you may want to point out the specific.
To say someone using a strategy to make you look bad in a debate is just not a very strong position to defend yourself. If this was a political stage, and Greg or Mike has to argue against a corrupt politician, I'll expect him to rip other apart. But this is not that, I expect everyone to act like decent and calm person, and prove their points by simply being articulated. If Mike has really persuasive arguments and he can express himself well enough, there's no reason he can't defeat his opponent without appearing hostile.
Seeing things objectively is much harder than most people think. Btw, I watch Greg for entertainments
Keep coping sub 5. Everyone who’s watched both of their content can tell dr mike is more educated. You’re just playing devils advocate because your life is boring. Greg sells falsities that people pay money for
Mike can talk down on Greg all he wants, but the fact of the matter is Greg knows what it takes to be an IFBB pro bodybuilder and Mike does not. Greg was absolutely bang on saying Mike just doesn’t know what a dialled in award winning physique is supposed to look like and how to get there, and there’s no disputing that. You can have all the professional accreditations in the world, but that doesn’t necessarily translate when it comes to all things bodybuilding etc. The Tren use at Mike’s age is ridiculous too, taking such a harmful / destructive substance in your latter years for little to no reward is hugely irresponsible.
To be fair, Mike KNOWS what it takes, he is just not able or willing to DO what it takes. (and possibly he just doesn't have a genetic shot in hell) And you know what they say, "Those who are not able to do, teach". Dr. Mike is a fantastic teacher. When people stay in their lane, they usually find massive success.
Precisely. Cus D'Amato couldn't box.@@HeadCannonPrime
Found the fanboy
@@HeadCannonPrime So you’re telling me Mike is willing to take highly damaging substances like Tren to be successful in bodybuilding, yet he can’t be bothered to diet correctly and do the consistent cardio that is needed?? That argument in of itself paints an even worse picture of Mike and his bodybuilding goals. Anyone can pin any drug going as there’s no work in that, the work starts with making the necessary sacrifices in terms of your lifestyle (eating and being more active etc).
Oh, is this fact of the matter in the room with us right now?
I'm not really a fan of Dr. Mike but I'd move into his guest room before spending a day with Greg...
You go do that and see how fast he kills you in your sleep cause of his baby tren rage
We also have to consider that those most emotionally effected by the debate tend to be the ones that comment. I remember my reaction even though the doucette debate happened years ago, and I was agreeing with Mike the whole time but I never left any trace/comment. Most people who agreed with Mike probably never left a comment.
Bro I love that you are rocking the Hell March 1 song in the beginning if this video, that's awesome
Didn’t Mike get famous for punching up constantly (I know he’s right more often than not in the case of celebrities training being bad) but objectively speaking there’s quite a lot of hypocrisy there
this
Yeah at least greg has a ounce of self awareness, mike actually believes himself when he huffs his own farts and says they smell like roses
Gregs whole channel is clickbaity and chasing clout by making videos on other people. Mike mostly does educational videos and a ton of podcasts, with some videos where he reviews others training regiment, and he is not always making fun of the person but making more of a joking video (Ronnie, Bloat god, just on top of my head). The frequency of those videos is just on another level for Greg, where all he does is make videos on others.
@@2opmataron991 I agree that I would rather go to mike's channel for useful information.
Greg and Mike are the same person but Greg got a hair transplant and whittled his roid use down while Mike doubled his "TRT" usage
Keep on fighting the good fight guys. I'm never gonna be impressed with dudes can quarter squat a bunch of weight, but struggle to bend over and pick their kid up off of the ground.
Lol
When it comes to fitness I'll trust the one with IFBB pro card and not the one who can't even cut properly for a show.
@MrSinister718 ill take the advice from someone with an actual fucking Doctorate.
@@andrewbennett2044that's funny, considering "sports physiology" might be the single most useless doctorate in the entire world
@@andrewbennett2044 So you're admitting you fall for appeals to authority like a moron. Got it LOL
Won't deny Greg is tabloid Journalism. But he is one of the few fighting the glorification of PED use, Mike has also done some good work in that area. Other than them and a few others, the industry is full of negligent influencers stoking the fire. Til' others make an effort, Greg and Mike are one of the only good guys in that area. I apologize to any influencers I did not mention who are also advocating natty.
So sick of you all natural little girls. Who cares if someone you don't know use steroids? I mean really does it bother you that much people you never meet use steroids? Lol why does anyone care what anyone else does??? Oh is it all about the children? Lololo
It seems abundantly clear that Greg Doucette is only motivated by money and has figured out that publishing three drama videos which are 50% him selling supplements is the best way to make money.
I think defending yourself by blaming others is the worst look out of everything. Best thing you can do is take full responsibility for how you acted.
Dude thinks greg was trying to play mental games when in reality he just knew that nobody would debate him if he screams in their ear for hours at a time
He did, he pointed out that Greg is manipulative and he played his part well. He basically baited emotional response from Mike and then acted as if he had done nothing wrong.
@@Tespri you are really overthinking it. From what I have seen of Mike in public, he always acts like a douche and hides behind the "Im awkward in social settings" excuse to blatantly be an asshole. Not to mention he has talked about having thoughts of killing dogs and about hurting others countless times. It is time to take off the rose tinted glasses my friend
@@coomlord5360 what seen in public is that greg is a pfile.
Bunch of hear say. Greg gives vibes of a creep without moral compass
@@Tespriit’s not hard to bait an emotional response from Mike… if you tell him his favourite cereal sucks he will say “ All I think about is violence “ or some crazy stuff. Watch his interview with the other Dr.Mike. I like Mike I for his training videos but he’s a bit of a nut case
At least Coach doesn’t insult Mike just for the pleasure of insulting Mike. He uses mike’s situation and name to then share great information to his viewers. There was a certain animosity in Mike’s words about Greg, which I find to be quite immature lol
Say what you want about Greg Doucette but he had the balls to call Dorian out on his bullshit. No one else ever has.
what Mike says around 16:00 is exactly what Greg also thinks he is doing. Funny how they are alike in that way.
You can’t trust a man like Greg simply because he has a voice more high pitched than a third grader😂😂😂😂
Oh shit, we got the Command and Conquer theme right now.
This fulfills All of my needs
Somebody let me know when Greg uploads his response
it's up!
@@MrSinister718 Thank you!!
This is a wonderful convo. 2 of the most plain talking guys on the platform and the subject. Love you both
Zack in his Noah Samsen era 😂
Context is one the most important things to have before you form your perspective around anything. Asking yourself "why" to anything can go a long way.
You guys are seriously the best 💯
I was subscribed to Greg for a while but after his videos became less about lifting and fitness and more about what Sam Sulek was doing wrong I unsubscribed and then subscribed to Sam
The fanboys are already starting to flood the comments, so I'll just tell everyone to watch Revival Fitness to see Greg debunked and discredited entirely (for years, without Greg ever responding)
Dr. Mike and Greg Doucette make the same types videos. They ridicule, or in their eyes, “provide truth and facts” to the community about people’s fitness philosophies and methodologies that they think is wrong. Both educated people who use science as their scapegoat to harshly criticize fitness content creators. Whether they are right or wrong in their examinations of other people’s work, whether you trust what Dr. Mike says or what Greg says - they are one of the same person. Their goal is the same.
Exactly. Lol that is so true.
I do think Dr Mike is an asshole, but I do think he only reserves his ridicule for people that are grossly incompetent in something they should know better, or are actually malicious, I think most his critiques are reasonable and he gives credit where it’s due and I also think he provides a lot of value in his content.
I think Greg is also an asshole, but an inflammatory one that intentionally makes people upset to start drama for the purpose of driving clicks and is a lot less fair in his criticism and I think his content is less valuable in general.
I think Dr Mike makes good videos and is just an abrasive asshole as a person, while Greg makes significantly less good videos and goes out of his way to be more of an asshole
I've been wanting for this Dr. Mike and Pedro Pascal team up let's gooooo
I don't keep with all the back and forth and drama between these two, but I lost a lot of respect for Mike when he said Gregg claims to be a doctor it was so obviously dishonest and unfair. I also did watch a bit of Greg's recent videos on Mikes quest to get a pro card and he was 100% on the money. I think Mike makes better content, but there's something about his personality that rubs me the wrong way.
People forget that mike started this
Did Mike Israetel watch the thumbnails concerning about the use of steroids hahaha
I did the exact same thing, was about to come around and resubscribe as Greg has done nothing but praise his channel and how well he is doing. This bs rant of Mike's just seems like bitterness.
It's his libertarian nonsense. He is obviously too smart for his own ideology and career, but his weird childhood trauma does not let him go. I love the guy regardless.
@@andrewzach1921 why would mike care if greg says good things about his channel? At the end of the day, Greg is still using his Harden than Last Time messaging. Which was just know is not only bad advice to the average youtube bro, but is going to get people hurt. He's still pushing his ever more expensive cook books. And he's push massively over priced supplements. Greg could buy Mike 100 Lambo's and Mike should still think Greg's scum. Because he just is.
It's interesting how a lot of this lines up with the concept in psychology of Foxes and Hedgehogs. Foxes (Dr. Mike and Zack) tend to be more cognitively flexible and open to nuance and contradiction. Hedgehogs (Greg Doucette & Joel Seedman), tend to have one big idea and confidently stick to it, sometimes to their detriment. Neither is bad inherently, although in this case the two hedgehogs are behaving poorly.
I think that is hitting the nail on the head. Greg only agrees with his very narrow viewpoint and is completely closed off from changing his mind, whereas Dr. Mike and Zach are open to new information when it comes up.
Mike only sticks to his science based stuff. He is a hedghog in your analogy.
not really. I don't see Greg in either camp. He is just commentary noise in the background. And Seedman is a total shill. I actually think he is being contrarian on purpose for the clout. His ideas are so out there he is the flat earther of fitness.
@@the_odd_cat553 that’s the whole point - he sticks to science, and if the science changes, he changes his thinking. Greg refuses to do so, even when faced with overwhelming evidence.
Dude what is up with the mic? Please fix it quickly.
seems like greg's comments about mike's professional bodybuilding career rly got to him lol
Tbh that interview with Mike & Greg was the first time I discovered Mike and I have been following RP since. I feel like Greg just wanted to learn in that debate, but yeah I did not see the original video of Greg roasting Mike
Say whatever you want about him. But him being one of the few influencers that will go out of their way to tell people not to take steroids earns my respect. Mike might have the best info but I thinks it's evil for him to be taking steroids to compete.
before ppl cared, mike wasnt saying "im on the gear, dont take it". he says that bcuz its necessary now to be in a good public light.
Let me guess you think Gregg was natty as an IFBB pro? One of the most unnatural bodybuilding federations 😂
I don't care about Joel Seedman one bit, but in the context of sports and lifting, powerlifting and weightlifting are what's most accessible for general public folks, and we don't have to be afraid to say that's where injuries happen most commonly.
The weird thing about it all is that Greg and Mike actually did a video on Greg's channel AFTER the debate on Omar's channel... that's so odd hearing Mike's current thoughts.
Mike has pro card envy
You need to do a higher effort video if you want people on your side. When I tell folks about my sociopath ex , I need to in depth describe what she did else I look just like the aO. Same here. I'm not watching the 4 year old debate. You gotta recap. But hey. Just like Greg, you both like those Lamborghinis, you keep pumping out somewhat lower effort stuff recently
To me Mike is losing his appeal. Before the prep for the show, he seemed a little more light hearted and funny. Now it’s all depression and anger. His tone is so unhappy now. It’s all negative, it’s all hate towards everyone else, inflated self ego. It’s not a good look
@@camiloorsini9674 He is still coming off his PEDs and dealing with a shitload of anxiety caused by cognitive dissonance. I think when he is de-loaded and gets into a good working headspace he will be better.
Although he is getting WAY richer and that tends to f'up people's brains. (20 years ago Elon wasn't a james bond villain)
Mikes new stuff is extremely low effort.
I wonder if this was filmed during Dr. Mike's most recent show prep cycle, and if so, does post-tren Mike still endorse these words?
Brilliant! Dr Mike sharp as ever, great conversation with a bunch of valuable takeaways! Thanks
great interview/talk/chat ; D
1:58 that's exactly what happens with the diets. It's easier to tell people "hey, don't eat fats" or "don't eat carbs" than explaining that you can have a balanced diet without as many restrictions and it's easier to sell programs and attack other people
I don't know about the debate and start of the beef between Greg and Mike. But Greg doesn't trash talk you in his videos. He might disagree or share his honest opinion...which can come across as shitting on you, like how you should stop body building, but that's not because he doesn't want you to achieve your goal, but because if it comes at the cost of abusing high amounts of PED's that is going to be detrimental to your health for something you really don't need to prove.
I've watched most of his fitness related videos for the past few years, and he generally agrees with your views on training, perhaps not bulking if that's something you do. He does speak about up and coming fitness youtubers / social media presences too, with not that many followers which is nice as it gives them more exposure.
You are right his persona online can be different than in real life, but he's open about that and has said it is for entertainment. Coming with an open mind to a debate is also a good thing, if you are closed-minded you won't change even if you are wrong. Jordan Peterson, a clinical psychologist also mentions how it's not only about "winning" a discussion, but testing what you know and what you can possibly learn from the conversation.
I like and follow both of you guys, because you both follow the science, truth and have good values.
Best comment
Watching the fitness word is interesting. Mitch Hooper just made a video of Joel. Mitch who is also well educated. Disagreeing on rep ranges seems kind of silly. Everyone agrees you have to go hard to get gains. Full range of motion is important, and the stretch is more important.
Greg is very clear about his approach. He makes sensational videos to get views. He wants to be educational, but sensational headlines/hyper energy is what gets people to watch, but he says he doesn’t want to do it. And at the end of the day, he’s a business, so he’s doing what works. But he’s pretty consistent on what he says to people in person. Watch the videos he made with Mitch hooper. He’s calmer to engage with because the solo videos are hyper exaggerated.
Greg is a literal millionaire. He doesn’t need to stoop so low to make money, yet he chooses to. He still pushes supplements (some of which have zero scientific backing) like they’re the best thing in the world. I’m not going to support a millionaire’s decision to push drama and fake/useless supplements just so he can continue to rake in money.
@@Dwhizzle ok.
This conversation has relevance in day-to-day interactions that have nothing to do with training or youtubers, especially with regard to who looks "mean" or "nice" vs. who is right and who is honest.
Clicked for Dr. Mike, subbed for the channel.
If you put yourself on the internet you open the door for criticism... the critic isnt an asshole for responding to your public videos.
same principle applies to the ‘critic’, and tabloid-esque videos insulting people aren’t really just responding to public videos
@@jacccs What is this emotional response, if you feel insulted from a critique you can always choose to ignore it. But if a lot of people are saying the same insult maybe they are not insulting you but you are getting offended from what seems a general observation.
@@jacccs but he isnt responding to gregs points is he?
@@jacccs also greg isnt complaining about the criticism. mike is.
@@gaymer5697 greg doesn't make salient points, he's just a snark drama channel that insults people, why respond honestly to someone acting in pure bad faith?
What’s funny is that not even with a PhD he was able to get an IFBB card. The hobbit will always have him in that one 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If you look at Greg’s stage pics he looked really good. He also beat John meadows on stage
Mike really doesn't have good genetics. Becoming a pro in bodybuilding is like 80% genetics.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 I don't get the whole genetics thing he and everybody else keeps talking about. Being 5'6 is the polar opposite of good genetics.
@@deedsofdecapitation7477 genetics is not only about height. Derek lunsford is 5'6 and he is Mr Olympia
columbo, katz, oliva, or nubret can tell you about genetics. or maybe Arnold is just smarter than them 🤔
You are elevating Greg's blood pressure harder than last time. Keep going. It won't be long now.
I imagine Greg smiling with glee thinking of all the video ideas he has now 😂
He's channel and products need to be shutdown
Nice music choice in the beginning! Hell March from Command and Conquer Red Alert 🥁
Dr. Mike is the Man, good conversation
Funny enough, the Greg debate was the first time I heard of Dr. Mike. I thought he was a douche at the time but have since ended up unsubscribed from Greg and subscribed to Dr. Mike after watching more of his videos.
Everyone hates Greg Doucette. I remember thinking he was cool in 2020. Boy was I wrong 😂
To be fair, all Greg does is punch up, but usually to gripe about something specific, and almost exclusively because he's judging someone as deficient at some capacity.
It not like he's meanderingly going after Athlean X or the bulk of influencers he actually likes lol.
Though the hyperfixation on Mike has been somewhat silly.
Mike saying he's doing it for clout is a little funny given Greg's already openly said he's going after Mike because of how popular Mike is, its not much of a secret, lol.
All that yap about nothing bro just delete this mess
@@blaydecarosone3448 I tried to delete it but it didn't work, can you show me how by deleting your comment first? Thank you in advance!
@@nm2358 how would me deleting my message show you how to delete yours?
Press those three little dots next to ur name on this comment and hit delete. You’re welcome in advance
@@blaydecarosone3448 You can't find out unless you try!
@@nm2358 I don’t understand what you mean. What would I be finding out? Are you okay dude?
This is the definition of saying what they want to hear and not what they need to hear!
Mike has 0 argument here. How is it no possible for Greg to know how to play the game on RUclips and also be genuine. Mike literally can’t give one constructive criticism about Greg
Mike sees Greg's Maclaren and just sees red. Mike is on tooo much gear and basically admits it. Greg is on so much gear most people couldn't tolerate it.
this happens to dave farina whenever he debates science deniers, sometimes it's even flat earth supporters and ppl will still say that dave is being mean or something. unbelievable
Anyone wasting time on flat earth debates is a clown anyways.
Because people literally didn’t pay attention in school. And then they turn around a say school is made to dumb you down and keep Knowledge from you. They are idiots.
A great example I had recently was a guy that was talking about how is training and energy got so bad when switching to a carnivore diet. I remember freshman year learning in biology that we need amino-acids(proteins), lipids(fats), and glycogen(carbs) for the building blocks of our body. Of course you feel like shit. Your body doesn’t have the lipids it needs to build hormones, your muscles don’t have the energy nor carbs it needs to hold water and function properly. And his brain was also probably running on E. The dumbest part is he thought his testosterone would go up. What would your body to to make testosterone? Him cutting out majority of his lipids and assuming he will make testosterone is the equivalent of cutting out all protein and thinking your body will make muscle out of carbs.
I knew this at 14 because I paid attention….
So, if when you debate you’re not even listening what the other party says, you give yourself bad optics, and turn out to be an asshole too
Greg Doucette plays a character, true, but his words are not false.
People keep saying, "I think his products are bullshit and bad." That's fine, but what does that have to do with the advice he gives? Has it ever been straight wrong or even harmful?
"I don't think he's actually a nice guy," again, if this is true or not, it means nothing because that is not what his videos center on. He's not claiming to be this angel come from Heaven to help the needy, he's just giving advice to people who he feels needs it based on his knowledge and experience. I am baffled as to why people paint Greg as some devil in disguise. People, please get over yourselves.
well, Gret says a lot of wrong things. Because he bases everything ONLY on his experience. At least this was the case when I watched him, a year or two ago.
ur cookbook bleep is so nice on the ears 😭
Oh god either ask him not to swear or just dont censor it, had to turn it off over those blips 😂😂
Dr. Mike.. When Greg talks about you he's actually agreeing with a lot of stuff you are saying and tue parts he disagrees with he explains why..
You really checked him as a ****sucker and a sociopath after he's done 1 or 2 videos about you?
Also.. why use that insult? Its not wrong to be gay
"Its not wrong to be gay" actually, it is quite wrong.
@@lukaskidd4621 why would you care