Don’t buy this! I bought one, it’s an amazing sounding mic. But the moment my wife saw it she confiscated it and I haven’t seen it since. (shrug emoji here)
I'm "that guy" who's always dumping on "audiophiles" for their flat-earth claims about audio cables and guitarists for their similarly bonkers "tone wood" fantasies. I'm not prone to hearing things that don't exist. So this video absolutely blew me away. I did not expect to notice anything, especially given RUclips's processing shenanigans. But I'm listening via a decent 5.1 surround system and there was a very clear difference when that mic was present. And the acoustic guitar was ridiculous. It sounded like it was in my living room. Almost makes me want to start a band just so I have an excuse to buy it.
It's interesting that you don't believe in the other stuff but believe that "RUclips compression" is destroying audio. I've uploaded my own videos, including guitar testing videos, they sound the same to my ears online as they do offline. It's really a non-issue. 😛
@@johnterpack3940 Yes, to lesser and greater extents that may or may not be discernible on whatever audio playback device is used. I have lower price high ish quality wireless headphones. The onboard audio processing that drives the headphones speakers has its own issues that impact the sound, as do my 1986 Polk Audio Monitor 4a studio grade speakers that “sound neutral” to mix with.
the depth really comes out when using this mic! i used an MXL ribbon mic as a room mic for my drums one time when i was in a studio, and it definitely made all the difference!! love them!!
As a fan of AEA mics (and all good mics in general), I am seeing a few "is there a way to get this type of sound cheaper?" posts. The answer is "yes" but with some caveats. The polar pattern represented by the two ribbon elements in this mic corresponds to the "Blumlein pair" technique. Google it. Any two condenser microphones capable of selecting a 'FIGURE 8' pattern can be co-positioned with the capsules at 90 degrees to each other and recorded as a stereo pair. This will present the same stereo field as the R88(a). However...this still will not give you the same frequency response of a nice ribbon microphone (which the R88 most CERTAINLY is). I use Blumlein all the time for stereo recording and it offers a great way to widen your stereo field without phase issues (because the capsules are coincidental in position). I'm not a metal guy, but it warms my heart to see this type of technique show up here. 👍
One thing to be careful of, not just pop-filters on vocals... is that ribbon mics *have* to be stored in the correct orientation or the ribbon sags and gets damaged.
Don’t forget to try it on overheads too! When I interned at Sputnik Sound, that thing lived over the kit. Always sounded amazing. Also worth noting this is the R88A, there’s a non active version that’s a bit cheaper. For those who have lots of clean gain to work with at least.
On the drum comparison, I preferred the room mics on but I wonder how much of that was due to volume loss without it? I definitely noticed the drop (although it could just be my brain trying to explain it). The room mic definitely captured that ‘Black album’ sound!
Yeah, the "overpriced box of disappointment" illustrated by the Cybertruck got a belly laugh out of me. ...but holy shit I stopped laughing when I saw the price of the mic. Like, that's about the grocery bill of a small family for three months. The joke's on me...
It's not that expensive, It's what I'd call Neumann territory. Pretty normal price for that sort of kit. Now, granted, the price is exorbitant for a home studio but let's be realistic here, a home studio has neither the nice sounding room nor the need for such a mic.
Ribbon mics are highly valued by many people who don't believe in EQ, and think that rolling off the treble of your condenser mic is a sin, but the naturally rolled-off treble of a ribbon mic is somehow lovably and sacredly "warm" and "smooth." (Which if you don't like it can be "darker" and "less detailed" and "lacking air," or just "muddy.") This is deeply wrong. Ribbon mics do have their virtues, but naturally rolled off treble and "warm, smooth ribbon sound" IS NOT ONE OF THEM. It is a flaw, or at best a limitation. In general, using EQ to gently shape the overall frequency response of your mic IS JUST FINE. If you don't like the harsh highs of your condenser mic, picking up HF aspects of the sound that you don't like, ROLL OFF THE TREBLE WITH EQ. IT WORKS FINE AND DOES NOT DO TERRIBLE THINGS TO YOUR PHASE RESPONSE OR TRANSIENT RESPONSE. Similarly, if you don't like your condenser mic picking up lower bass than your SM57 does, ROLL OFF THE DAMNED BASS WITH EQ. That works fine, and it doesn't fuck with your phase response either. Rolling off the bass acoustically in the capsule architecture and doing it electrically with an EQ filter (or digital version) has the same consequences in terms of small, benign phase shifts. Normal single-capsule mics are pretty close to "minimum phase" devices, like a conventional EQ. That means that the frequency response and the phase response are tied together in a certain way, and using conventional EQ (NOT fancy "linear phase" EQ) to gently shape the overall frequency response preserves that relationship. That has important implications. One is that if a mic "naturally" has a certain frequency response due to its acoustic structure (like the acoustic "delay network" that shapes the polar pattern), you can emulate it with a flatter mic (like, say, a good condenser), and when you correct the frequency response, that will automatically tend to correct the phase response to match as well. (Remember, phase response is tied to the frequency response in a definite way, at least for sounds entering the front of the mic, i.e., on axis or not way, way off axis.) The bigger implication of that is that you REALLY CAN make one mic sound much more like another with respect to its on-axis sound, just by using EQ in the obvious way to get the same frequency response, AND YOU SHOULD. You should not buy a bunch of expensive mics that differ mostly in their overall frequency response, because EQ is good at that. What EQ can't do is change the off-axis sound of the mic. The capsule type, size. and architecture determine the polar pattern and how it varies by frequency, so the physical aspects of the capsule determine how the off-axis sound is picked up, with a different "EQ filter" than the on-axis sound. For a normal mic, with one output, that means that the on-axis sound and the off-axis sound differ in ways you cannot fix with EQ. If you like the on-axis sound but the reverberation in the room sounds weird, EQ can't fix it. If you like the on-axis sound but bleed from other instruments sounds bad, EQ can't fix that either. That is what EQ is NOT good for. And that has a lot to do with what ribbon mics are and aren't particularly good for. They're not especially good for giving you a basically different overall FR curve than a condenser mic, for the on-axis sound; you can do that just fine (and maybe better) with a good flattish condenser and EQ. They are good for giving you a figure 8 polar pattern that sounds somewhat different from the figure 8 polar pattern of a condenser like, say, a U87 in F8 mode, and maybe better. A large-diameter condenser in Figure 8 mode uses two diaphragms (front and back) with cardioid patterns (pointing in opposite directions) to construct a figure 8 pattern. The two diaphragms are in different places, spaced apart by the thickness of the capsule and its internal acoustic delay network, which introduces phasing issues that affect the off-axis frequency response. A ribbon has the advantage that the front of the front element and the back of the back element are almost in the same place, because they're just the front and back sides of one ribbon. The spacing between them is tiny, and negligible at audio frequencies. (Actually what's more important, the path around the side of the ribbon element from the front to the back is short.) The off-axis sound may sound more natural or otherwise better than the off-axis sound of an LDC in F8 mode. The bottom line is that with mics, even more than with pickups, EQ works pretty well, so EQ matters a lot. If you want to compare mics, you shouldn't take their frequency response curves as a given, or as fixed. You ought to measure them with REW, and match the overall frequency response curves, then listen for any OTHER differences, which EQ can't fix. And you should also compare to other mics in F8 mode. Given any reverberation in the room or spill from other instruments, any F8 mic might sound better than any cardiod mic, or vice versa. You only know that the ribbon sounds better if you compare it to another mic in F8 mode, EQd to have the same overall FR curve so that you can listen for OTHER differences. (And sometimes an LDC in F8 mode will happen to sound better than a ribbon, if your off-axis sound is weird in a particular way that the condenser's off-axis FR weirdness happens to complement. The generally more natural off-axis sound from a ribbon can be a bad thing in a particular instance, if the natural sound is bad in your shitty room.) Ribbon mics can be especially good as "side" mics in mid-side stereo, but to actually demonstrate that, you need to control for FR and compare to another F8 mic in the same role.
This comment is the good oil and needs more upvotes. I've come back to read it for the second time today and I'm gonna bookmark it - really good information. A bit off-topic: For the sake of experimentation, I did once EQ an SM57 to make it very close to a Beta57, (guitar cabinet, on-axis, same performance take reamped each time) which a null test proved I could. That convinced me that there's really no difference between types of mic other than frequency response (when you correct for unity gain anyway; I also learnt that a Beta is 5 dB hotter than an SM). But I didn't consider the off-axis comparison of different mics; so what you're explaining really hits home to me.
... or you can just send the signal to fake room reverb plugin. Funny how you always say 200 USD guitars sounds like 2000 USD ones etc., but when you advertise something, there is no comparison between the product and cheaper alternatives. If it's good, it should defend itself, especially for it's enormous price.
My late friend and mentor, Jack Campitelli, used this and a few other AEA mics to fantastic results! My favorite application was as a stereo drum overhead set up behind the drummer 'looking' down at the kit. The stereo spread is almost eerily natural sounding and the ribbons deliver smooth cymbals, punchy toms, and full-sounding snare.
Glenn, holy shit! Your video editing has reached top-tier status! I've been a fan for years, and each video just keeps getting better. Keep up the amazing work, man!
Acoustic sounded like it was present in the room, the electric guitar A/B was night and day and yes, I love the ribbon version. The thing is, I don't have a sound proof room for it to be utilised on a guitar amp but if I were recording acoustic guitar, this would be the only mic I used...
A couple of years ago I bought the Sontronics Apollo 2 stereo ribbon. No regrets. Sontronics also sells cosmetic seconds, so you can get a deal on a great microphone.
It sound like I just popped my ears and I can finally hear normally. It really is one of those things that you don't notice untill you have something to compare it against. But as long as it sounds better and it does ( especially for the drums, acoustic guitar and the solo ) it's worth it. Every bit helps. I do wonder how close you can get with a jig and a pair of other room mics, for those more financially crippled among us.
Is it possible this mic could eliminate the need to double track guitars? I mean, since it already records in stereo, could a single track be sufficient in a mix?
Would’ve liked to see a stereo pair of room mics as a 3rd example for the demos, I feel like a lot of the sound difference is just the fact that there is a room mic at all so it’s obviously going to add more detail and space to the mix and you’ll lose that comparing a close mic to close mic and room mic. You also could have purposely set up an out of phase pair as an example to show the benefits of it being a stereo mic. I will admit it does sound amazing and I love using a room mic when recording electric guitar.
I love my (mono) ribbon mic I use it for many things like horns, strings (violin), percussion, vocals (vintage sound), guitar and mid-side recordings (I don't have a drum room). Every respectable (home)studio should have at least one ribbon in their mic collection.
there’s a video of Bob Rock talking about mics used on the black album and he said for guitars, he had a single U87 about 15 feet back and the focus was on getting that GONK that James wanted focused, as well as adding some distance to the guitars. I dunno what (if any) frequencies were cut from those room mics, only Bob Rock and Randy Staub know, but when I tried the same method (I have a spacious live room) - I found it was more so about distance and balancing the room fader just right in contrast to the main close mics on the cab!
that is how aI do a "fake steroe" pair is I have a close mic on the cab then around 12-15 feet away a condenser mic, however the ribbon mics are "better" than a condenser. Pan them different sides and you give the track depth. Works great with acoustics too, makes it sound huge. Sometimes you just want a guitar focused and up close for a lead, then just mic the cabinet.
@@nunninkav I’m a changed man- I don’t do a single session nowadays without a room mic for rhythm guitars. leads I stick with the main close mic source.
Hi Glenn, I hope you doing well ! Con you do a test with this mic, mount that insaide a base drume, ich side face to one on the head and see how that work ! Keep up the good work !
This needs to be compared to other room mics though. I'm surprised you didn't do that being that this mic is almost 3 thousand dollars. Wouldn't you want people to see if they're really getting that much of a % in increased quality over something like an AT4040?
Definitely can hear a brighter top end crispy in the best way...can we get a one mic drum mix with that mic? Might be a good option for a band to use in a live rehearsal space...
In the later mix, it appeared to me that when you introduced the new Ribbon Room mic, the sound got slighty louder..BUT also the drums were much more vibrant and audible and the drums cut perfectly through the mix. And the brightness was slightly increased? That's my take.
The main difference was in the guitars. On my monitors you could hear the stereo separation open up and it was much more like you were in the same room. My monitor speakers are only about a meter apart but I'm sitting right in front of them. Being able to hear the drums clearly might be a function of that separation on the guitars.
@@Chris_the_Muso Yes, for sure. I had IEMs in. So I'm guessing your perspective is richer in depth of sound. I could tell the guitars sounded clearer and more realistic. But I NOTICED the drum clarity so much more after the stereo separation you mentioned.
I flipped away from the video so I wouldn't see the annotations of when the mic came in and out during the full mix and honestly couldn't notice when things were changing. I was listening through Bose QC Ultra in noise canceling mode (plugged in, not Bluetooth). It was noticeable in the standalone guitar and drum tests.
I gotta say, the sound difference was subtle (no speakers, just my phone), but I could still notice it. It seemed to have this “airy?” sound and smooth top end that really brought out the detail.
There's unboxing videos and then there's open boxing videos. There's a big difference and with all the sites that don't show you what's actually in the package or the occasion when one needs to re-pack the box and they don't remember what exactly was in it or how it was closed.
I may not make metal these days. But i always come back because i'm always learning something new to bring to other genre's of music and see if it works on that side of recording. Truly appreciate what you do Glenn. Cheers from London Ontario.
This microphone is easily my favorite of my collection. Besides overheads and room, this mic excels on an intimate acoustic singer songwriter. If you have the dough, it is very worth it.
At my studio, we had the R88 and traded it in for an R88a. Both are killer. They offer massive vibe that’s perfectly in phase. They are tone monsters. Your review was honest! Sometimes we use the R88a as the only mic. We have the drummer mix himself. 😮
The sonic image is undeniable. That 3D sound is apparent. I wonder if there are more affordable alternatives? I have an M2 ribbon from Mesanovic in Detroit that is killer. Now I think I should have shelled out more and opted for his stereo version.
Tips for room mic in a small drum room: Try facing the room mic AWAY from the drums, just place it close to the drums but face it away. That is actually a magic trick to get the huge drum perception sound of a small room.
I totally agree room mics are worth it. However, I don't see why one would bother spending so much on rooms. I just use a spaced pair of pencil condensers and point them at the walls they are opposite of, away from the drum kit. Basically mic'ing the room sound alone. It really adds depth and sustain to drum tone, makes snares hit much better. If you want a bigger room sound I find rooms take reverb very well, you could use an impulse response from a good studio and you'd be pretty close to recording in a nice room. I've used cardioid mics, but omni mics might be interesting too as that's typically the go to for spaced pair micing.
@@1Know1tHurts yep ,, i got 2 stagg mic SDM-70 copy of sm57 , they sound pretty much the same on cab or sner as the sure sm57 and you can buy 5 for the price of the shure ,,
Well, in terms of sounds, I think that the R88A is just one more available tools at the market. But I have a question for you, what do you think is the future of sound? I mean - we have so much tools today that the main difference is skill/knowledge and less the budget, at the past (80-90’ and a bit at the start of 2000’s) you can clearly hear a difference between a band with huge budget (Iron Maiden for example, Somewhere in time) to bands with a really low budget, this is clearly different now but since a good sound in metal albums are all over now - are we still going to get the same “old” sounds or do you think that something completely new will come in the future? I started my experience with home recording back in the middle of 90’s, from 8 tracks and external mixer/effects to “all in the box” but it’s hard for me to see now how it’s going forward.
How long did your editor work on this one with all the crazy effects? Have used stereo ribbons as the only Mike when having no time to set up for a live record (not metal or Amped rock). Alway got a useable recording
Also note that you use one “part” of the R88 as a single ribbon mic. Try it on vocals or on guitar cab, just use a popfilter if you have a source that moves a lot of (sudden) air
Hey Glenn! What are the dimensions of your drum room? Considering the price of real estate these days being able to work in a small cube shaped room is the best most of us can do for drums, if our neighbors don't murder us first! What are the most important spots to treat first in those rooms, and how can you deal with a low ceiling like in a basement?
The mix opens up!! the room feels much bigger. As a long time FOH mixer i found my self killing the room mics till it clicked in my brain!! I Know stupid right. Great video.
Jeez Glenn, almost unnoticeable difference or maybe I'm a bit deaf. That's probably the same difference it makes to use different pickups, different tonewood or different tubes & you have taught me to not make purchases based on these microscopic differences haha it's pretty much what your channel is all about. Love from Mexico Glenn, love the content.
GLEN!!! How about a A/B mic shoot out. ‘SM57 vs the world’ comparing the REX and all kinds of others to the industry standard, kinda like how Zilla cabs did with the Vintage 30.
The mic really seems to help with high end/high frequencies. While I agree subtle, it's the combination of subtle additions that truly add up and make the big difference. Not something I'm gonna be able to grab any time soon but definitely a mic I'm gonna keep on my radar for when I can finally build my full size studio. Glenn you're amazing as always and keep up the awesome work. You've help me learn so much and improve even more.
Innuendos aside...i watched the sound test 3 separate times. On a smart tv, the "with" tests sounded chunkier, i.e., had more prominent bass. On mobile phones (samsung and blackview), there was no discernable difference between "with" and "without." Maybe i should rewatch using other speaker systems? Oh, yes, i'm saying that speakers do matter a ton. And eff you,y namesake for bringing professional sounding tones in more affordable prices! 😂
Yeah the AEA ribbons are incredible. Also room mics on guitars is a MUST if you are doing anything but an in your face sound and have a decent room. If you don’t then put in a hint of artificial reverb. Personally, i think it works better for rock music than it does for modern metal on rhythms, but natural reverb makes the lead guitar sing. If you don’t have a good room i highly recommend using Sound City studios plugin by UA it gives room reverb or remicing to something that sounds like it’s in sound city. Some of the best (most natural and easy to setup)room reverbs I’ve ever heard.
Now try the Golden Age Project R1 ST. It's a stereo ribbon that costs $599 and supposedly is very impressive for the money. I have a stereo pair of R1 MK2's with inline mic boosters that cost me under $400 for the whole setup and when you unbox them it makes you wonder how they can sell them at that cost. They are beautiful and well built and sound amazing.
Im a game designer and composer, you consider this a good option for doing sound engineering like chomping on a carrot or wiggling steel for sound effects?
Crap! Now I need to buy another microphone and the budget isn't happening. YET! Well, now that I've seen the price, it ain't gonna happen. Killer sound though. It's a freaking basement studio, Glenn! Right now I'm much more interested in the Moog Muse synthesizer.
I'd prefer it if there was some room mic/mics on the track without the AEA as well, since chances are the difference will be far smaller than between a completely room-dry track and a slightly wet track. Not to mention how it sounds in a mix; since I don't have those godlike ears that you say we have - and as such didn't really hear much difference in the guitar tracks (distorted guitars, mind you)
8:23 NO ! I was distracted with the rock star faces ! lets not make this a handicap place please ! I really wish guys would not try to act like there some god !
In the mix, I definitely heard wider guitars, with a creamer image, and on the drums the snare had a better tail. I think it made a pretty big difference (but big may be subjective)
for acoustic instruments it is deffinetely an amazing choice (not only this mic but ribbons in general) even for vocals if used correctly. But for their price I wouldnt say im blown away by the "in the mix" result and deffinetely not a 2,5k change in the sound ! A good use of dynamics and condencers with 1/10 the price can get you 95% there and I dotn think anyone here is producing metallica or Mariah Carey to need that 5% extra ! p.s. nice touch on the video editing such an enjoyable video to watch !
I got to use a ribbon mic in school for some recording projects. Absolutely loved it on guitar, but haven't recorded a goddang guitar amp since then because everybody has dsp shite
Don’t buy this! I bought one, it’s an amazing sounding mic. But the moment my wife saw it she confiscated it and I haven’t seen it since. (shrug emoji here)
Use your nose. Look for something that smells like Durian. You'll find it there. Trust me!
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Now can you get the Vaseline out of it ????
Pity it wasn't connected to a recorder.
It's not the length it's the girth 😅
I always walk away from your videos with a new perspective. Thank you for being YOU Glenn!
I'm "that guy" who's always dumping on "audiophiles" for their flat-earth claims about audio cables and guitarists for their similarly bonkers "tone wood" fantasies. I'm not prone to hearing things that don't exist. So this video absolutely blew me away. I did not expect to notice anything, especially given RUclips's processing shenanigans. But I'm listening via a decent 5.1 surround system and there was a very clear difference when that mic was present. And the acoustic guitar was ridiculous. It sounded like it was in my living room. Almost makes me want to start a band just so I have an excuse to buy it.
Yeah, this one kind of blew me away as well
It's interesting that you don't believe in the other stuff but believe that "RUclips compression" is destroying audio. I've uploaded my own videos, including guitar testing videos, they sound the same to my ears online as they do offline. It's really a non-issue. 😛
@@MichaelSheaAudio I suspect many people confuse dynamic and data compression and don’t fully understand either.
@@jrrarglblarg9241 Data compression can still be "lossy". It can, therefor, still impact the sound.
@@johnterpack3940 Yes, to lesser and greater extents that may or may not be discernible on whatever audio playback device is used. I have lower price high ish quality wireless headphones. The onboard audio processing that drives the headphones speakers has its own issues that impact the sound, as do my 1986 Polk Audio Monitor 4a studio grade speakers that “sound neutral” to mix with.
"It's not a phase, mom..."
the depth really comes out when using this mic! i used an MXL ribbon mic as a room mic for my drums one time when i was in a studio, and it definitely made all the difference!! love them!!
Honestly, $2600 is less than I was expecting. I'm not sure I'd trade in my Telefunken, but that is one sweet-ass mic!
The bug zapper reference was gold...
As a fan of AEA mics (and all good mics in general), I am seeing a few "is there a way to get this type of sound cheaper?" posts. The answer is "yes" but with some caveats. The polar pattern represented by the two ribbon elements in this mic corresponds to the "Blumlein pair" technique. Google it. Any two condenser microphones capable of selecting a 'FIGURE 8' pattern can be co-positioned with the capsules at 90 degrees to each other and recorded as a stereo pair. This will present the same stereo field as the R88(a). However...this still will not give you the same frequency response of a nice ribbon microphone (which the R88 most CERTAINLY is). I use Blumlein all the time for stereo recording and it offers a great way to widen your stereo field without phase issues (because the capsules are coincidental in position). I'm not a metal guy, but it warms my heart to see this type of technique show up here. 👍
One thing to be careful of, not just pop-filters on vocals... is that ribbon mics *have* to be stored in the correct orientation or the ribbon sags and gets damaged.
Thanks man, I have Rode NTR, not as expensive but... I'll take better care of it. Nobody told me before...
ohh shipy poo
Don’t forget to try it on overheads too! When I interned at Sputnik Sound, that thing lived over the kit. Always sounded amazing. Also worth noting this is the R88A, there’s a non active version that’s a bit cheaper. For those who have lots of clean gain to work with at least.
My girlfriend said it reminded her of working with the BBC, then sighed. She had a glazed look in her eye all day after. She must miss the BBC.
…. jeez dude 😅
Lol
lol irl
Well done!
On the drum comparison, I preferred the room mics on but I wonder how much of that was due to volume loss without it? I definitely noticed the drop (although it could just be my brain trying to explain it). The room mic definitely captured that ‘Black album’ sound!
You know you're dealing with a pro engineer when he's looking for those "1% better" improvements. The mix at the end is a great example of that.
I love AEA stuff. We have an R88 and an R84 at a local studio I help at sometimes. They’re killer room mics.
Could not hear the difference coming through my cell phone speaker. But isn't that where all music goes to die?
Yeah, the "overpriced box of disappointment" illustrated by the Cybertruck got a belly laugh out of me.
...but holy shit I stopped laughing when I saw the price of the mic. Like, that's about the grocery bill of a small family for three months. The joke's on me...
It's not that expensive, It's what I'd call Neumann territory. Pretty normal price for that sort of kit. Now, granted, the price is exorbitant for a home studio but let's be realistic here, a home studio has neither the nice sounding room nor the need for such a mic.
It is 2 great mics in one. That's a quite normal price for a professional mic.
This is a budget mic from AEA. They have several much more expensive ones.
Gotta love that glorious ribbon fullness.
Ribbon mics are highly valued by many people who don't believe in EQ, and think that rolling off the treble of your condenser mic is a sin, but the naturally rolled-off treble of a ribbon mic is somehow lovably and sacredly "warm" and "smooth." (Which if you don't like it can be "darker" and "less detailed" and "lacking air," or just "muddy.")
This is deeply wrong. Ribbon mics do have their virtues, but naturally rolled off treble and "warm, smooth ribbon sound" IS NOT ONE OF THEM. It is a flaw, or at best a limitation.
In general, using EQ to gently shape the overall frequency response of your mic IS JUST FINE. If you don't like the harsh highs of your condenser mic, picking up HF aspects of the sound that you don't like, ROLL OFF THE TREBLE WITH EQ. IT WORKS FINE AND DOES NOT DO TERRIBLE THINGS TO YOUR PHASE RESPONSE OR TRANSIENT RESPONSE. Similarly, if you don't like your condenser mic picking up lower bass than your SM57 does, ROLL OFF THE DAMNED BASS WITH EQ. That works fine, and it doesn't fuck with your phase response either. Rolling off the bass acoustically in the capsule architecture and doing it electrically with an EQ filter (or digital version) has the same consequences in terms of small, benign phase shifts.
Normal single-capsule mics are pretty close to "minimum phase" devices, like a conventional EQ. That means that the frequency response and the phase response are tied together in a certain way, and using conventional EQ (NOT fancy "linear phase" EQ) to gently shape the overall frequency response preserves that relationship.
That has important implications. One is that if a mic "naturally" has a certain frequency response due to its acoustic structure (like the acoustic "delay network" that shapes the polar pattern), you can emulate it with a flatter mic (like, say, a good condenser), and when you correct the frequency response, that will automatically tend to correct the phase response to match as well. (Remember, phase response is tied to the frequency response in a definite way, at least for sounds entering the front of the mic, i.e., on axis or not way, way off axis.)
The bigger implication of that is that you REALLY CAN make one mic sound much more like another with respect to its on-axis sound, just by using EQ in the obvious way to get the same frequency response, AND YOU SHOULD. You should not buy a bunch of expensive mics that differ mostly in their overall frequency response, because EQ is good at that.
What EQ can't do is change the off-axis sound of the mic. The capsule type, size. and architecture determine the polar pattern and how it varies by frequency, so the physical aspects of the capsule determine how the off-axis sound is picked up, with a different "EQ filter" than the on-axis sound.
For a normal mic, with one output, that means that the on-axis sound and the off-axis sound differ in ways you cannot fix with EQ. If you like the on-axis sound but the reverberation in the room sounds weird, EQ can't fix it. If you like the on-axis sound but bleed from other instruments sounds bad, EQ can't fix that either. That is what EQ is NOT good for.
And that has a lot to do with what ribbon mics are and aren't particularly good for. They're not especially good for giving you a basically different overall FR curve than a condenser mic, for the on-axis sound; you can do that just fine (and maybe better) with a good flattish condenser and EQ.
They are good for giving you a figure 8 polar pattern that sounds somewhat different from the figure 8 polar pattern of a condenser like, say, a U87 in F8 mode, and maybe better.
A large-diameter condenser in Figure 8 mode uses two diaphragms (front and back) with cardioid patterns (pointing in opposite directions) to construct a figure 8 pattern. The two diaphragms are in different places, spaced apart by the thickness of the capsule and its internal acoustic delay network, which introduces phasing issues that affect the off-axis frequency response.
A ribbon has the advantage that the front of the front element and the back of the back element are almost in the same place, because they're just the front and back sides of one ribbon. The spacing between them is tiny, and negligible at audio frequencies. (Actually what's more important, the path around the side of the ribbon element from the front to the back is short.) The off-axis sound may sound more natural or otherwise better than the off-axis sound of an LDC in F8 mode.
The bottom line is that with mics, even more than with pickups, EQ works pretty well, so EQ matters a lot.
If you want to compare mics, you shouldn't take their frequency response curves as a given, or as fixed. You ought to measure them with REW, and match the overall frequency response curves, then listen for any OTHER differences, which EQ can't fix.
And you should also compare to other mics in F8 mode. Given any reverberation in the room or spill from other instruments, any F8 mic might sound better than any cardiod mic, or vice versa. You only know that the ribbon sounds better if you compare it to another mic in F8 mode, EQd to have the same overall FR curve so that you can listen for OTHER differences.
(And sometimes an LDC in F8 mode will happen to sound better than a ribbon, if your off-axis sound is weird in a particular way that the condenser's off-axis FR weirdness happens to complement. The generally more natural off-axis sound from a ribbon can be a bad thing in a particular instance, if the natural sound is bad in your shitty room.)
Ribbon mics can be especially good as "side" mics in mid-side stereo, but to actually demonstrate that, you need to control for FR and compare to another F8 mic in the same role.
This comment is the good oil and needs more upvotes. I've come back to read it for the second time today and I'm gonna bookmark it - really good information.
A bit off-topic: For the sake of experimentation, I did once EQ an SM57 to make it very close to a Beta57, (guitar cabinet, on-axis, same performance take reamped each time) which a null test proved I could. That convinced me that there's really no difference between types of mic other than frequency response (when you correct for unity gain anyway; I also learnt that a Beta is 5 dB hotter than an SM).
But I didn't consider the off-axis comparison of different mics; so what you're explaining really hits home to me.
... or you can just send the signal to fake room reverb plugin. Funny how you always say 200 USD guitars sounds like 2000 USD ones etc., but when you advertise something, there is no comparison between the product and cheaper alternatives. If it's good, it should defend itself, especially for it's enormous price.
My late friend and mentor, Jack Campitelli, used this and a few other AEA mics to fantastic results! My favorite application was as a stereo drum overhead set up behind the drummer 'looking' down at the kit. The stereo spread is almost eerily natural sounding and the ribbons deliver smooth cymbals, punchy toms, and full-sounding snare.
The Coles 4038 ribbon mics changed my overhead game for drums.
3:29 I was absolutely not expecting to see a clip from my job in the background haha. DSNY rep 💪
Awesome vid as always, Glenn
Omg! I heard the first recording out of my phone speakers. Ran for the DAC and IEMs and rewinded. 😂
Glenn, holy shit! Your video editing has reached top-tier status! I've been a fan for years, and each video just keeps getting better. Keep up the amazing work, man!
Glenn, are you doing your own editing?!
@@SHUTUPANDRECORDhe said in past videos that he outsources his video editing
@@katielowen what exactly does that mean?
@@SHUTUPANDRECORD it means he isn’t editing the video himself. Sending it to someone else to edit.
@@katielowen I appreciate you chiming in, I don’t mean to sound too sarcastic. But yes, I get that much.
Acoustic sounded like it was present in the room, the electric guitar A/B was night and day and yes, I love the ribbon version.
The thing is, I don't have a sound proof room for it to be utilised on a guitar amp but if I were recording acoustic guitar, this would be the only mic I used...
For us guitar players... Just remember, ribbon mics are as fragile as our ego 😂
Only way more useful 😇
We are, after all, insufferable.😇
@@annebokma4637 🤣
Best overhead mic for jazz drums I've ever used ... Didn't expect to find it being raved about here!
A couple of years ago I bought the Sontronics Apollo 2 stereo ribbon. No regrets. Sontronics also sells cosmetic seconds, so you can get a deal on a great microphone.
It sound like I just popped my ears and I can finally hear normally. It really is one of those things that you don't notice untill you have something to compare it against. But as long as it sounds better and it does ( especially for the drums, acoustic guitar and the solo ) it's worth it. Every bit helps.
I do wonder how close you can get with a jig and a pair of other room mics, for those more financially crippled among us.
Wow, that guitar sounds insane with the r88 added in.
2:23 when she unboxes the intimate toy for the first time.
Is it possible this mic could eliminate the need to double track guitars? I mean, since it already records in stereo, could a single track be sufficient in a mix?
Would’ve liked to see a stereo pair of room mics as a 3rd example for the demos, I feel like a lot of the sound difference is just the fact that there is a room mic at all so it’s obviously going to add more detail and space to the mix and you’ll lose that comparing a close mic to close mic and room mic. You also could have purposely set up an out of phase pair as an example to show the benefits of it being a stereo mic. I will admit it does sound amazing and I love using a room mic when recording electric guitar.
*Would've
Thank you Glenn! After watching your video and listening to your examples, I’m seriously considering getting this microphone.
I love my (mono) ribbon mic I use it for many things like horns, strings (violin), percussion, vocals (vintage sound), guitar and mid-side recordings (I don't have a drum room). Every respectable (home)studio should have at least one ribbon in their mic collection.
there’s a video of Bob Rock talking about mics used on the black album and he said for guitars, he had a single U87 about 15 feet back and the focus was on getting that GONK that James wanted focused, as well as adding some distance to the guitars.
I dunno what (if any) frequencies were cut from those room mics, only Bob Rock and Randy Staub know, but when I tried the same method (I have a spacious live room) - I found it was more so about distance and balancing the room fader just right in contrast to the main close mics on the cab!
that is how aI do a "fake steroe" pair is I have a close mic on the cab then around 12-15 feet away a condenser mic, however the ribbon mics are "better" than a condenser. Pan them different sides and you give the track depth. Works great with acoustics too, makes it sound huge. Sometimes you just want a guitar focused and up close for a lead, then just mic the cabinet.
@@nunninkav I’m a changed man- I don’t do a single session nowadays without a room mic for rhythm guitars. leads I stick with the main close mic source.
Hi Glenn, I hope you doing well !
Con you do a test with this mic, mount that insaide a base drume, ich side face to one on the head and see how that work !
Keep up the good work !
You should link the none active version also... save 500 odd if you high drive preamps
This needs to be compared to other room mics though. I'm surprised you didn't do that being that this mic is almost 3 thousand dollars. Wouldn't you want people to see if they're really getting that much of a % in increased quality over something like an AT4040?
That is one great looking and sounding sound dild0.
The thumbnail is still HERESY 😂
Definitely can hear a brighter top end crispy in the best way...can we get a one mic drum mix with that mic? Might be a good option for a band to use in a live rehearsal space...
Is that knife legal in Canadia?
Legal as forcing women to have rape babies in Texas.
No, unless of course he tightens the hinge point lolz
ok, at 5:07 we have the "unbeatable" lewitt 640, but at 8:28 the guitar sounds like a "wet cardboard box" with just the lewitt ??
In the later mix, it appeared to me that when you introduced the new Ribbon Room mic, the sound got slighty louder..BUT also the drums were much more vibrant and audible and the drums cut perfectly through the mix. And the brightness was slightly increased? That's my take.
The main difference was in the guitars. On my monitors you could hear the stereo separation open up and it was much more like you were in the same room. My monitor speakers are only about a meter apart but I'm sitting right in front of them. Being able to hear the drums clearly might be a function of that separation on the guitars.
@@Chris_the_Muso Yes, for sure. I had IEMs in. So I'm guessing your perspective is richer in depth of sound. I could tell the guitars sounded clearer and more realistic. But I NOTICED the drum clarity so much more after the stereo separation you mentioned.
@@Chris_the_Muso My first immediate thought was, "Sounds less muddy." So that might have been more accurate after all. Haha
I flipped away from the video so I wouldn't see the annotations of when the mic came in and out during the full mix and honestly couldn't notice when things were changing. I was listening through Bose QC Ultra in noise canceling mode (plugged in, not Bluetooth). It was noticeable in the standalone guitar and drum tests.
I gotta say, the sound difference was subtle (no speakers, just my phone), but I could still notice it.
It seemed to have this “airy?” sound and smooth top end that really brought out the detail.
yes you are literally getting the movement of the air in the room "detailed highs" doesn't matter if you are deaf.
There's unboxing videos and then there's open boxing videos. There's a big difference and with all the sites that don't show you what's actually in the package or the occasion when one needs to re-pack the box and they don't remember what exactly was in it or how it was closed.
overall video quality went up!! keep up the good work glenn!!
I may not make metal these days.
But i always come back because i'm always learning something new to bring to other genre's of music and see if it works on that side of recording. Truly appreciate what you do Glenn. Cheers from London Ontario.
This microphone is easily my favorite of my collection. Besides overheads and room, this mic excels on an intimate acoustic singer songwriter. If you have the dough, it is very worth it.
Hey Glenn!!! Are there any other mic's like this in a more budget friendly cost zone? id assume no! but maybe there is a good alternative?
I have a NUDE - Stereo Blumlein Ribbon Microphone. Works great and shipping from Australia to USA was pretty reasonable.
What's more shocking is that the difference survives YT's usually poor encoder settings for audio.
Fun fact: Ribbon mics are dynamic mics, but what we call dynamic mics (moving-coil mics) are dynamics, but not ribbons.
It's like squares and rectangles...
At my studio, we had the R88 and traded it in for an R88a. Both are killer. They offer massive vibe that’s perfectly in phase. They are tone monsters. Your review was honest!
Sometimes we use the R88a as the only mic. We have the drummer mix himself. 😮
OMG somebody call robocop and tell him we found who chopped it off...lol love your work glen ..
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
If you cannot afford the AEA, the Golden Age Stereo Ribbon is a really fun stereo ribbon and it is only like $500 to $700 I think.
They are amazing as overheads too, but I would suggest you also mic the hats and ride with SDC's
What model blue LTD was that? That things beautiful
The sonic image is undeniable. That 3D sound is apparent. I wonder if there are more affordable alternatives? I have an M2 ribbon from Mesanovic in Detroit that is killer. Now I think I should have shelled out more and opted for his stereo version.
Tips for room mic in a small drum room:
Try facing the room mic AWAY from the drums, just place it close to the drums but face it away.
That is actually a magic trick to get the huge drum perception sound of a small room.
I forget the album, but the producer used 2x Shure 80 quid PGA's facing the wall and compressed the snot out of it for the room sound.
@@Fl4ppers update when you remember what it is :D i wanna hear it
I totally agree room mics are worth it. However, I don't see why one would bother spending so much on rooms. I just use a spaced pair of pencil condensers and point them at the walls they are opposite of, away from the drum kit. Basically mic'ing the room sound alone. It really adds depth and sustain to drum tone, makes snares hit much better. If you want a bigger room sound I find rooms take reverb very well, you could use an impulse response from a good studio and you'd be pretty close to recording in a nice room. I've used cardioid mics, but omni mics might be interesting too as that's typically the go to for spaced pair micing.
Hey thanks for the review Glenn! And the acoustic demo
will like to hear it against a , 100$ mic and against a 20$ mic ,, dose it really sound that better ,
um, yeah. Mics is one thing where 9 times out of 10 you get what you pay for, although the MXL mics were ridiculously cheap for what they delivered.
I am sure Behringer 8500 will hold well against it.
@@1Know1tHurts yep ,, i got 2 stagg mic SDM-70 copy of sm57 , they sound pretty much the same on cab or sner as the sure sm57 and you can buy 5 for the price of the shure ,,
Well, in terms of sounds, I think that the R88A is just one more available tools at the market.
But I have a question for you, what do you think is the future of sound? I mean - we have so much tools today that the main difference is skill/knowledge and less the budget, at the past (80-90’ and a bit at the start of 2000’s) you can clearly hear a difference between a band with huge budget (Iron Maiden for example, Somewhere in time) to bands with a really low budget, this is clearly different now but since a good sound in metal albums are all over now - are we still going to get the same “old” sounds or do you think that something completely new will come in the future?
I started my experience with home recording back in the middle of 90’s, from 8 tracks and external mixer/effects to “all in the box” but it’s hard for me to see now how it’s going forward.
I just lost it somewhere around the 2.18 mark.
Put Bender's Big Black Bonanza down Glenn!!! Drooling over it is not a good look! 😁
I’d be interested to hear this vs double tracking/hard panning with a mono room mic
How long did your editor work on this one with all the crazy effects?
Have used stereo ribbons as the only Mike when having no time to set up for a live record (not metal or Amped rock). Alway got a useable recording
Also note that you use one “part” of the R88 as a single ribbon mic. Try it on vocals or on guitar cab, just use a popfilter if you have a source that moves a lot of (sudden) air
Zoomer brain editing going OFF 😂
Paradoxal, that in full mix it sounds like the bass is a bit fatter with the room mic on guitars. Nice trick!
Hu! Now I wanna know how you mix the guitars in stereo together with the room mic signal.
How about a Long and Mcquade link for the Canadian side :)
Hey Glenn! What are the dimensions of your drum room? Considering the price of real estate these days being able to work in a small cube shaped room is the best most of us can do for drums, if our neighbors don't murder us first! What are the most important spots to treat first in those rooms, and how can you deal with a low ceiling like in a basement?
The mix opens up!! the room feels much bigger. As a long time FOH mixer i found my self killing the room mics till it clicked in my brain!! I Know stupid right. Great video.
Jeez Glenn, almost unnoticeable difference or maybe I'm a bit deaf. That's probably the same difference it makes to use different pickups, different tonewood or different tubes & you have taught me to not make purchases based on these microscopic differences haha it's pretty much what your channel is all about. Love from Mexico Glenn, love the content.
GLEN!!! How about a A/B mic shoot out. ‘SM57 vs the world’ comparing the REX and all kinds of others to the industry standard, kinda like how Zilla cabs did with the Vintage 30.
What mic are you using to record your voice in your videos. It sounds so clean and natural I might want one just for VOIP.
Good plan, you must sound the best to cover up talking BS. I am getting one too 😂
Fleming Rasmussen used room mics on AJFA and they scrapped them along with audible bass.
I wanted to hear that mix...
The mic really seems to help with high end/high frequencies. While I agree subtle, it's the combination of subtle additions that truly add up and make the big difference. Not something I'm gonna be able to grab any time soon but definitely a mic I'm gonna keep on my radar for when I can finally build my full size studio. Glenn you're amazing as always and keep up the awesome work. You've help me learn so much and improve even more.
Innuendos aside...i watched the sound test 3 separate times. On a smart tv, the "with" tests sounded chunkier, i.e., had more prominent bass. On mobile phones (samsung and blackview), there was no discernable difference between "with" and "without." Maybe i should rewatch using other speaker systems?
Oh, yes, i'm saying that speakers do matter a ton. And eff you,y namesake for bringing professional sounding tones in more affordable prices! 😂
Kohle's been using the SE ribbons for a while now. Voodoos mostly.
the figure-8 pattern does pick-up more room
- that's the point , i guess ...
I can confirm with absolute certainty that my phone speaker is horrible. That did not translate to my end.
Yeah the AEA ribbons are incredible. Also room mics on guitars is a MUST if you are doing anything but an in your face sound and have a decent room. If you don’t then put in a hint of artificial reverb. Personally, i think it works better for rock music than it does for modern metal on rhythms, but natural reverb makes the lead guitar sing.
If you don’t have a good room i highly recommend using Sound City studios plugin by UA it gives room reverb or remicing to something that sounds like it’s in sound city. Some of the best (most natural and easy to setup)room reverbs I’ve ever heard.
Now try the Golden Age Project R1 ST. It's a stereo ribbon that costs $599 and supposedly is very impressive for the money. I have a stereo pair of R1 MK2's with inline mic boosters that cost me under $400 for the whole setup and when you unbox them it makes you wonder how they can sell them at that cost. They are beautiful and well built and sound amazing.
Yeah, i've been absolutely digging mixing with a ribbon - I finally picked up the R121.. unfortunately it's worth it
Im a game designer and composer, you consider this a good option for doing sound engineering like chomping on a carrot or wiggling steel for sound effects?
Crap! Now I need to buy another microphone and the budget isn't happening. YET! Well, now that I've seen the price, it ain't gonna happen. Killer sound though. It's a freaking basement studio, Glenn! Right now I'm much more interested in the Moog Muse synthesizer.
I'd prefer it if there was some room mic/mics on the track without the AEA as well, since chances are the difference will be far smaller than between a completely room-dry track and a slightly wet track. Not to mention how it sounds in a mix; since I don't have those godlike ears that you say we have - and as such didn't really hear much difference in the guitar tracks (distorted guitars, mind you)
Today on the show we have the AyEeAyArrrAteEeAte
The mic gave so much more deep punchy tone in the full mix. Sounds lovely
still recommend slick audio??
How does this compare to the golden age ribbon mics you have shouted out before?
8:23 NO ! I was distracted with the rock star faces ! lets not make this a handicap place please ! I really wish guys would not try to act like there some god !
I usually prefer mixes without the room, it usually just adds mush and smears the soundstage. But this actually sounds better, A LOT better! Wow!
almost has a chorusy sound with the room mic on heavy guitars, more sustain too. Very nice
In the mix, I definitely heard wider guitars, with a creamer image, and on the drums the snare had a better tail. I think it made a pretty big difference (but big may be subjective)
That mic resembles the Ypsilanti Water Tower, which is the most phallic building in the world. Great Job AEA!
I clicked on the link and said "three thousand". I was close. Another piece of gear far out of my reach, I'll stick to double tracking lol.
for acoustic instruments it is deffinetely an amazing choice (not only this mic but ribbons in general) even for vocals if used correctly. But for their price I wouldnt say im blown away by the "in the mix" result and deffinetely not a 2,5k change in the sound ! A good use of dynamics and condencers with 1/10 the price can get you 95% there and I dotn think anyone here is producing metallica or Mariah Carey to need that 5% extra !
p.s. nice touch on the video editing such an enjoyable video to watch !
I got to use a ribbon mic in school for some recording projects. Absolutely loved it on guitar, but haven't recorded a goddang guitar amp since then because everybody has dsp shite
Nothing better than a nice Big Black Capsule to get the juices flowing in the studio!