I heard that Akrapovic are the best regarding that. A lot of other, usually cheaper ones, lose way more (20PS or so). At least according to ruclips.net/video/sldRT38VGdA/видео.html
I was searching all over internet on this and there are a lot of contradictory opinions out there ..... finally found a conclusive video with proof. Very well explained . Thanks !!
Glad you did this. I have a SmartCar powered by a GSXR 1000 engine as a swap project and due to space confinement, I can't fit a large muffler. The italian muffler I used came with a db killer and although perfect for noise reduction, I was nervous to use it thinking I will loose so much HPs. This is what I was looking for, thank you !
Because some perform worse with a baffle in than standard. I had a scorpion sekret carbon fibre exhaust and they told me they didn't supply a baffle for my SDR 1290 for this reason
Most of the gains in aftermarket exhaust systems are in the primary headers and the collector. Beyond that, the link pipe and the silencer can have a relatively minor effect.
There are different type of baffles. Looks like that one is open ended and just necks the diameter down a bit. Some baffles are not open ended and have a perforated tube with holes that really quiet it down and rob power. I have seen db specs of the 2 different types of baffles from the same manufacturer on their exhaust and the type like yours was ~ 3-4 db quieter and the closed end with a perforated tube type was ~ 6-8 db quieter. This shows the restriction difference which could affect power and afr - air fuel ratio.
I have a closed end DB killer baffle on my gen 2 Yamaha FZ1. It is really quiet, can hardly hear it even if it has an aftermarket 4 into one and can. The bike is very soft and mellow below 8,000 rpm with very little low rpm torque. I removed the baffle and not only was it a lot louder, but much more powerful. More low rpm torque and heaps more pull at low revs. I am now looking for a less restrictive baffle DB killer (probably open ended) to quieten it down while retaining the low end power. Love the FZ1, sweet bike.
I’m curious what these tests would yield for the bikes us mere mortals ride 😂😂😂 I also wonder if the overall percentage of power loss becomes larger and larger as the engine gets smaller. (Obviously different exhaust systems with different baffles would have differing results too) So like, if you lost 3horsepower from 200hp that’s only a 1.5% loss. But if I lost 3hp on my 10hp Honda grom it’d be losing 30% of its power 😂😂😂 That being said, knowing how the acoustics of muffler baffles are supposed to work, I would hazard a guess that making the baffle have more of the same sized holes, such that it has a larger total flow area to allow for equal mass flow rates, would allow the application of a baffle that sees no mass flow loss and thus no power loss while still engaging as a functional baffle. This is because the frequencies that are filtered out by a baffle are dependent upon the size of the single holes in the baffle and not necessarily the total number of those holes and/or their total area. So that being considered, I’d have to imagine that higher end exhaust systems have accounted for this such that the application of the baffle doesn’t really choke mass flow rates in any significant way that there’s no/very little power loss while coincidentally fulfilling the acoustic band pass filter needs with the sizing of the individual holes. But I bet lower end after market exhaust systems pretty much know most people just take the baffle off anyway. So they just throw in an easy to install sheet of metal that has as many holes as can be drilled into it that it still keeps its structural integrity. Then they just stick it inline with the nominal pipe diameter. Ergo, the baffle always has a smaller total flow area than the pipe it’s being fed by. This is why cylindrical baffles are soo quality. They can allow for much higher mass flow rates through it’s open surface while still keeping the holes tiny enough that the proper acoustic frequencies are cut off by the band pass filter that literally is the hole. So if I was being honest, this doesn’t necessarily prove that baffles don’t result in power loss. It just proves that baffles can be designed such that they don’t result in power loss, as in “it’s possible”. And knowing the level of racng you do and the quality of bikes you’re running I’d have to imagine you are running equipment from companies who’ve thought all of this^^^ through and actually put the money towards doing the R&D in their exhaust mass flow rates and acoustics. And in which case this is a great proof as to why it’s important not to skimp on your engines “breathing” systems and quite frankly a testament to why the higher end products give the best performance AND aesthetics. Just my 2 cents on the matter because there are a dozen guys above who are acting like this is definitive proof that no baffle will ever actually decrease power. Which is simply not the case, because it’s certainly possible to design an inefficient baffle. But anyway, if someone gives you a penny for your thoughts and you put your two cents in where does the other penny go? (For the record, yes I do have a degree in physics)
Great, im leaving my mt09 in Thursday to be tuned as iv fitted a full system and like that it's loud with it out so I'm going to have it tuned with the Baffle in
I have an 09 Ducati 1098R (1198cc)with the full race 70mm termignoni pipes. Once a year I have to put the baffles back in for its Warrant of fitness test(MOT) and it feels like it has been strangled. It becomes way less responsive, doesn’t pull as hard and feels unhappy. As soon as I remove the baffles after the test, it comes alive again! It definitely feels like it looses more than 3-6bhp. With mine having 2 baffles, it could be being doubly restricted? I am getting it dyno’d in the next 2-3 weeks and if the figures are way different to yours Sylvan, I will let you know. I am enjoying following the track bike build and your videos are very informative. Thank you.
Could this be because your ecu is just “trained” for running without the baffle and switching it for just a short run makes it run weird because it doesn’t get any time to “train” to the baffle? I could be completely wrong though as I’m not familiar with your bike.🤷♂️
Just found your channel at last some one who can back up what they are saying I think being a moto gp and wsb rider ( world champion) you know a thing about bike set up thanks for sharing
@@SylvainGuintoli Hi Sylvain thanks for this but the data we need is the noise reading, to ACU procedure? Baffle in, and out, please. I guess 102dB would be great for most UK days, with 108dB the limit for noisy days, outside race days... Merci!
I was like you and thought you would lose alot more power than that. It seems the bike went rich a little. I wonder if they go back in and pull a little fuel out would that get you a few hp back.....might be worth the experiment
My exact thoughts too. It would be good to see exactly what they could achieve with a custom map with the baffle. He could have noisy and quiet engine map options 😂
That would probably work but then the map would be set up for the baffle so if he took the baffle out then it would run lean. So he may want to keep it like that. After all there is potential there that he simply wants to run it within the baffle so that it sounds better and isn't bothered by 2hp on his standard bike when he gets to test out motogp bikes xD
I have a question, i already tune and dyno without silencer, after that i put silencer. The question, so i need to tune again or just fine without tune?
Honest question Sylvain, Why didn't you do a back to back dyno test with baffle out aswell? As on different days, temperatures etc dyno readings can differ. Loving your videos and channel Sylvain. 👍
Salut! J'ai mis un baffle sur ma R1200GSA LC de 2016 avec Yoshimura Hepta Force. Est-ce que je dois passer au garage pour ajuster l'injection? D'avance, merci beaucoup. À plus. Manu Essex
Sur le banc la diff’ avec l’Akra sur ma Gex est négligeable, pas besoin d’ajuster le setup mais je n’ai pas d’expérience avec ta machine et le Yosh’. Serai intéressant de voir si ça change la carto sur la tienne…
Not an urban legend at all... obviously not all exhaust and bikes are the same! M4 GP exhaust on my K6 Gixxer lost 20+hp all through the rev range and 40+hp peak power with the quiet baffle in. It’s quieter, but being that restrictive is ridiculous! But just lucky if you have an Akra exhaust I guess. 🤷♂️
I understand they kicked out the beardy weirdo but it must be near impossible to counter all the negative publicity he generated. Seems they sponsor a lot of moto stuff now. Still never seen a can of their drink though.
@@Xx-yk6cu I'm not qualified to answer that, i have very little interest or knowledge of international financial systems. On the surface it appears suspect, but how are they still in operation?
Just go out and run your bike on a same track (staright line or whatever) with the DB killer installed and not installed. Surely if it does cause a substantial decrease you will either notice it while riding or by comparing times/speeds. It ain't rocket science. This just quantifies it scientifically.
Another Urban Legend blown out of the water.... Well done Guinters!!👏
I heard that Akrapovic are the best regarding that. A lot of other, usually cheaper ones, lose way more (20PS or so). At least according to ruclips.net/video/sldRT38VGdA/видео.html
I'm glad you did this, I always wondered how much power you lost with a baffle installed.
I was searching all over internet on this and there are a lot of contradictory opinions out there ..... finally found a conclusive video with proof. Very well explained . Thanks !!
Glad you did this. I have a SmartCar powered by a GSXR 1000 engine as a swap project and due to space confinement, I can't fit a large muffler. The italian muffler I used came with a db killer and although perfect for noise reduction, I was nervous to use it thinking I will loose so much HPs. This is what I was looking for, thank you !
Agra's are so good, I leave my baffle in on my RSV4 and did on my R1M, only 2HP difference on both !
Thank you 😉 straight to the point and very clear information.
Frfr
Thank you Silvain. Short but to the point video. I like it !
THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS! Dunno why manufacturers can't or won't publish this info.
Because some perform worse with a baffle in than standard.
I had a scorpion sekret carbon fibre exhaust and they told me they didn't supply a baffle for my SDR 1290 for this reason
Most of the gains in aftermarket exhaust systems are in the primary headers and the collector. Beyond that, the link pipe and the silencer can have a relatively minor effect.
There are different type of baffles. Looks like that one is open ended and just necks the diameter down a bit. Some baffles are not open ended and have a perforated tube with holes that really quiet it down and rob power. I have seen db specs of the 2 different types of baffles from the same manufacturer on their exhaust and the type like yours was ~ 3-4 db quieter and the closed end with a perforated tube type was ~ 6-8 db quieter. This shows the restriction difference which could affect power and afr - air fuel ratio.
I have a closed end DB killer baffle on my gen 2 Yamaha FZ1. It is really quiet, can hardly hear it even if it has an aftermarket 4 into one and can. The bike is very soft and mellow below 8,000 rpm with very little low rpm torque. I removed the baffle and not only was it a lot louder, but much more powerful. More low rpm torque and heaps more pull at low revs. I am now looking for a less restrictive baffle DB killer (probably open ended) to quieten it down while retaining the low end power. Love the FZ1, sweet bike.
Great channel Sylvain!
well done AkrA! and still sound sweet.
Great video as usial Sylvain keep them coming!!
I wonder the dyno results if the afr for the exhaust with baffle is corrected/tuned. Will it be better? Or worse?
Thanks Sylvain for all those test
I’m curious what these tests would yield for the bikes us mere mortals ride 😂😂😂 I also wonder if the overall percentage of power loss becomes larger and larger as the engine gets smaller. (Obviously different exhaust systems with different baffles would have differing results too) So like, if you lost 3horsepower from 200hp that’s only a 1.5% loss. But if I lost 3hp on my 10hp Honda grom it’d be losing 30% of its power 😂😂😂
That being said, knowing how the acoustics of muffler baffles are supposed to work, I would hazard a guess that making the baffle have more of the same sized holes, such that it has a larger total flow area to allow for equal mass flow rates, would allow the application of a baffle that sees no mass flow loss and thus no power loss while still engaging as a functional baffle. This is because the frequencies that are filtered out by a baffle are dependent upon the size of the single holes in the baffle and not necessarily the total number of those holes and/or their total area.
So that being considered, I’d have to imagine that higher end exhaust systems have accounted for this such that the application of the baffle doesn’t really choke mass flow rates in any significant way that there’s no/very little power loss while coincidentally fulfilling the acoustic band pass filter needs with the sizing of the individual holes.
But I bet lower end after market exhaust systems pretty much know most people just take the baffle off anyway. So they just throw in an easy to install sheet of metal that has as many holes as can be drilled into it that it still keeps its structural integrity. Then they just stick it inline with the nominal pipe diameter. Ergo, the baffle always has a smaller total flow area than the pipe it’s being fed by.
This is why cylindrical baffles are soo quality. They can allow for much higher mass flow rates through it’s open surface while still keeping the holes tiny enough that the proper acoustic frequencies are cut off by the band pass filter that literally is the hole.
So if I was being honest, this doesn’t necessarily prove that baffles don’t result in power loss. It just proves that baffles can be designed such that they don’t result in power loss, as in “it’s possible”. And knowing the level of racng you do and the quality of bikes you’re running I’d have to imagine you are running equipment from companies who’ve thought all of this^^^ through and actually put the money towards doing the R&D in their exhaust mass flow rates and acoustics. And in which case this is a great proof as to why it’s important not to skimp on your engines “breathing” systems and quite frankly a testament to why the higher end products give the best performance AND aesthetics.
Just my 2 cents on the matter because there are a dozen guys above who are acting like this is definitive proof that no baffle will ever actually decrease power. Which is simply not the case, because it’s certainly possible to design an inefficient baffle.
But anyway, if someone gives you a penny for your thoughts and you put your two cents in where does the other penny go?
(For the record, yes I do have a degree in physics)
Agreed 👍 Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for this! I'l keep my dB killer installed! guys at the track told me it robs "a lot of horsepower"; clearly not!
If you are at the track you don't keep anything on the bike that takes away HP
Great, im leaving my mt09 in Thursday to be tuned as iv fitted a full system and like that it's loud with it out so I'm going to have it tuned with the Baffle in
I put a stage 2 baffle in my zx10r to make it very quiet while getting a warrent. It made it go slower than my r6 it was so bad!
I have an 09 Ducati 1098R (1198cc)with the full race 70mm termignoni pipes. Once a year I have to put the baffles back in for its Warrant of fitness test(MOT) and it feels like it has been strangled. It becomes way less responsive, doesn’t pull as hard and feels unhappy. As soon as I remove the baffles after the test, it comes alive again! It definitely feels like it looses more than 3-6bhp. With mine having 2 baffles, it could be being doubly restricted? I am getting it dyno’d in the next 2-3 weeks and if the figures are way different to yours Sylvan, I will let you know.
I am enjoying following the track bike build and your videos are very informative. Thank you.
Could this be because your ecu is just “trained” for running without the baffle and switching it for just a short run makes it run weird because it doesn’t get any time to “train” to the baffle?
I could be completely wrong though as I’m not familiar with your bike.🤷♂️
Can be true . That dyno sheet is at wot. I would want to know the difference in partial throttle
Just found your channel at last some one who can back up what they are saying I think being a moto gp and wsb rider ( world champion) you know a thing about bike set up thanks for sharing
Rad video... as always :)
Really helpful data, merci beaucoup👍
Great video, awesome seeing the real data. There seem to be many different kinds of DB-Killer baffles out there, what kind are you using there?
Would be interesting to see a comparison of dB readings between the two
Nvm, i found your video of exactly that, tho it's in french lol
Nice .
Always wondered the answer to this.
Did you modify ECU settings to reduce the Engine braking (as you planned earlier)?
Yes, we worked on that. Video out soon..
@@SylvainGuintoli Hi Sylvain thanks for this but the data we need is the noise reading, to ACU procedure?
Baffle in, and out, please.
I guess 102dB would be great for most UK days, with 108dB the limit for noisy days, outside race days...
Merci!
Very useful 👍🏻
Thank you so much
Great video ! Lot of stupid guys with super noisy exhausts on street should see it !
185bhp at the wheel seems low with full exhaust system?
I was like you and thought you would lose alot more power than that. It seems the bike went rich a little. I wonder if they go back in and pull a little fuel out would that get you a few hp back.....might be worth the experiment
My exact thoughts too.
It would be good to see exactly what they could achieve with a custom map with the baffle.
He could have noisy and quiet engine map options 😂
@@mozer30 thats what I have done on my 600, PCV with 2 maps so I can switch for baffle in or out, difference is 3hp
@@mozer30 yeah right....😂😂👍🏻
That would probably work but then the map would be set up for the baffle so if he took the baffle out then it would run lean.
So he may want to keep it like that. After all there is potential there that he simply wants to run it within the baffle so that it sounds better and isn't bothered by 2hp on his standard bike when he gets to test out motogp bikes xD
Did you use Power Commander piggy back ECU here ?
Great content!
I'm wondering how the effect is on torque?
Will be exactly same as the effect on the power. Power is derived from torque. torque x rpm / 5252 = power.
Power and torque are essentially the same thing in this context. If the power curve is basically identical. Then so is the torque
Whats the difference in dBs? Or does it just limit it to the track day max dB?
Weather conditions for each test were the same?
Was the bike tuned specially for the baffle in? If you are using the tune created without a baffle it will of course lose power.
Tuned without the baffle.
I have a question, i already tune and dyno without silencer, after that i put silencer. The question, so i need to tune again or just fine without tune?
Does it afect the engine if you remove the baffle?
Who remapped the bike for you
So it’ means baffle out is good more hp right ?
Honest question Sylvain, Why didn't you do a back to back dyno test with baffle out aswell? As on different days, temperatures etc dyno readings can differ. Loving your videos and channel Sylvain. 👍
These 2 measurements (with and without) were made on the same day (15mins in between)
@@SylvainGuintoli Awesome, thanks Sylvain.
How loud was it though?
Salut!
J'ai mis un baffle sur ma R1200GSA LC de 2016 avec Yoshimura Hepta Force. Est-ce que je dois passer au garage pour ajuster l'injection?
D'avance, merci beaucoup.
À plus.
Manu
Essex
Sur le banc la diff’ avec l’Akra sur ma Gex est négligeable, pas besoin d’ajuster le setup mais je n’ai pas d’expérience avec ta machine et le Yosh’. Serai intéressant de voir si ça change la carto sur la tienne…
@@SylvainGuintoli Merci. J'essaierai de trouver un dyno en Essex. 👍🏻
Who cares about 3hp, I'd rather have a quiet ride, especially if I forget my ear plugs
Wind is what kills your ears, not engine noise (well, hardly)
Would be great to know how many db you lost by fitting the baffle ??
ruclips.net/video/7jO28imkd2k/видео.html
So might as well leave it in if it's such a little difference.
Not an urban legend at all... obviously not all exhaust and bikes are the same! M4 GP exhaust on my K6 Gixxer lost 20+hp all through the rev range and 40+hp peak power with the quiet baffle in. It’s quieter, but being that restrictive is ridiculous!
But just lucky if you have an Akra exhaust I guess. 🤷♂️
Cannock!
i dont know my s1000rr wont even wheelie with baffle, feels like i loose 30hp
comme quoi!!! merci!!!
That is a well designed exhaust. Other cheap ones basically close off your exhaust
Why don't you look at DB reduction as well. You would be saving many ear drums!
Probably gained back what you lost from the factory exhaust
Rich energy sponsored truck
I understand they kicked out the beardy weirdo but it must be near impossible to counter all the negative publicity he generated.
Seems they sponsor a lot of moto stuff now. Still never seen a can of their drink though.
@@kmc7355 Where's the money coming from?
@@Xx-yk6cu I'm not qualified to answer that, i have very little interest or knowledge of international financial systems.
On the surface it appears suspect, but how are they still in operation?
Who disliked this? Why? 🤔
Just can't beat akropovic.
Just go out and run your bike on a same track (staright line or whatever) with the DB killer installed and not installed. Surely if it does cause a substantial decrease you will either notice it while riding or by comparing times/speeds. It ain't rocket science. This just quantifies it scientifically.
Im decrease volume on this video @@ scary
Oh my God, now you are going to lose against beginners on their 125! 😱
My bike loses loads with baffle.. struggles past 100mph.. and it's a 1000cc
First?
My zx10r looses 10hp