I like doing this, especially as I am tuning a deck too. It helps me see if a particular synergy was too strong or weak, too fast or slow, and I note it down as an easy future swap to make.
@@TheFirstJake To be honest, if you ain't at a Pod with abolute brain dead people; if you play a Mana Crypt, you play automatically a 3vs1 if not everybody has a cEDH Deck for ~200 to 300 Bucks and above.
I agree with this, in some regard. As it works well with some decks and with others, it doesn't work at all. Two types that it works particularly well with are Reanimator and Cascade. You can effortlessly power up or down your decks by swapping your Reanimator and Targets and Cascade Payoffs. And that only means changing at most 10 cards. E.g. swapping Sheoldred the Apocalypse for a Grave Titan. Or Swapping a Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augar for a Supreme Exemplar. Both decks function exactly the same, but the power scales up and down a lot. Caveat* You'll have to sandbag your interaction if you're running a lot of free spells in either case. One fun version that i actually own in paper is my Maelstrom Wanderer deck. I currently have a stack of 58 big stompy splashy blue green and red or some combination creatures that I randomly draw 15 of at the start of every game and shuffle into my deck. These are my Cascade payoffs that in any given game I have no idea what I'm going to get to play.
I kinda do this with my Lord of Nazgul deck. One version runs a bunch of cheap counter spells to make wraiths on the cheap and control the flow of the game. Some of the people I play with, understandably, get frustrated when anytime they go to play anything with any actual power, I either say "no" or let it resolve, then immediately destroy it. So I keep a sideboard of more expensive (in mana) counter spells, and swap some of the black removal with some cheap cantrips. Gives me a similar play pattern, and it doesn't annoy as many people
Another cool thing about this is all the cards from Strixhaven with the Learn mechanic and cards like Wish and Fae of Wishes that allow you tutor cards from outside of the game can now be utilized to their full potential
Congratulations on the milestone dude! It's veeeery well deserved and I hope that the growth of this channel is exponential. On the topic. I went from not knowing what a sideboard is for to not being able to build a deck without one and in a casual context it really feels weird. Although my personal reason for this is that I simply want to put more of the cool cards that I like into my decks. Of course I can make a deck that's more than 60 card but I find the 60 card minimum + a 15 card sideboard to be very well callibrated. On top of that 75 sleeved cards fit the best in the deck boxes I have 😂... I just like the option of having a small selection of optional cards that I might swap into my main deck between games instead of either not having the option at all or having to search through my entire collection to find what I think I'll need.
Thanks a ton! Good to see familiar faces through the entire process. Yeah as long as people aren't abusing it, sideboards are a lot of fun. Especially if you're running wishes.
Very interesting idea. I like cEDH a lot, and I’ve always held that competitive commander would do well with a sideboard. In commander you don’t need to do “best of” for a sideboard to work. I envision cEDH sideboards being 15 cards. Everyone would show their commanders when sitting down for a pod. Then based on the other three commanders at the table you’d make swaps in your 99 from your sideboard before doing the winner take all round like current tournaments. But I’d never thought about why a casual table would want something like this
@@TheFirstJake probably, the general hate would probably still be main board but the sideboard would have targeted stax and control pieces that would get swapped in to disrupt the other decks at the table in a way your deck doesn’t care about. Whether that would be good for the format I can’t truly say but it’s always an idea that’s floated around in my head
My sideboard for my Vishgraz deck is nearly as big as the deck itself! I have so many different plans that I could do - ETB Blink Value, Artifact Creature Typal, Toxic/Proliferate, Sacrifice, Big Stompy. I have taken out many Proliferate cards to actively make the deck weaker for some opponents because it's hard to interact with that. I love the flavor of playing the way that the advertisements say - I am a Planeswalker, a wizard commanding an army!! I do my planning, I can bring clutch spells to target a specific opponent's strategy. My sideboard box is titled "Sideboards/Silver Bullets/Solutions"
Damn bro talk about resonating on the same wavelength! The fact that you came out with this video when just last week this very idea popped in my head is so sychronistic. When I upgrade my precons I keep the cards I removed for the deck in the box along with a lot of the cards i was considering that didn't quite make the cut, and I realized I had kind of created my own makeshift sideboard. Then it dawned on me that having a sideboard allows you to meta game against your pod if you are playing multiple games with the same deck, or if cards just don't perform the way you envisioned you can make changes on the fly. You took this to the next level and really analyzed it from all angles! Subscriber earned! So now the question is what do we set the numer of cards in the sideboard at? It's 15 for 60 card formats, but is that enough for a 100 card deck? And is 25 too much or is that the right amount considering that's exactly the same ratio of 1/4 as standard decks.
I do think that 25 is right from an impact/need ratio perspective, but it's unrealistic time-wise for swapping with other people sitting there so I lean towards just keeping it 15 for sideboard with maybe a bit more in a maybe-board for outside of table time. Also I did the exact same thing with the MH3 Eldrazi precon and I've just been moving things in and out ever since.
@@TheFirstJake Yeah that's along the lines of what I was thinking. 25 feels right since it's essentially just scaling up along with the increased deck size. There's a 2 minutes timer for sideboarding in competitive, so with a larger sideboard in a multiplayer format, increasing it to a 5 minute period seems fair. I like the idea of a 25 card sideboard total, with a 5/5/15 split of 5 cards powering up/5 powering down and 15 slots for strategic tech.
OMG! I love the idea of turning Pako and Haldan into Finn and Jake with Adventure theme deck xD Fantastic idea... any chance for your decklist? I'm also playing this couple but sometimes I feel it is too powerful so maybe focusing on such a strict range of cards might be interesting
Once I’m done with my Simic ponyo proxy deck I’d love a game against that adventure time deck it’s supposed to be a fun sea monster deck and now I think I’ll make a stronger merfolk deck as a sideboard. :)
Just started playing magic and your video on how to quit was suggested for me the other day lol thought that was funny 🤣 loving your content and your wholesome vibes my guy
My home group side boards but I also don’t play 60 card as much as commander bc the power level is more even. I technically have a sideboard but it’s so I can play my highly tuned 9 with my pod’s precon 7.5 or 8s. I also run a few decks on that level. It’s fun to have a few decks, I wish I had a second 60 card deck that had a low power side board.
I have seen the logical conclusion of this in practice. People find out what is being played and then tune their deck with a bunch of hate cards to specifically target the table. This hasn't happened but the guy would most certainly put in boil if he found out I was playing eluge as an example. Before we talked about how side boarding to meta the table is technically against the rules he would alter his landbase to include a bunch of deserts to fire of scavenger grounds because he knows I play a lot of graveyard decks. The answer. Don't assume you are playing cEDH. When you build a deck assume you are playing against upgraded precons with a $300 budget and plan to win once you have 8-9 mana available. Cut tutors entirely and bam! There you go, you can now play your deck at over 90% of tables.
Play with better people. This isn't something that can be solved with rules. If people aren't interested in having good games, there are infinite ways to make them miserable.
Let’s be real. The biggest problem is getting 15 extra same colored sleeves. (Yeah you can have them kinda floating in a separate container but then i gotta now unsleeve and resleeve the swaps).
Sideboarding makes sense in a best of three. Casual commander doesn't care about that and frankly, neither does cedh. We switch decks between games, which takes the place of sideboarding
@@TheFirstJake rule 903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that player can’t bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if any color in its color identity isn’t in the color identity of the player’s commander. Also by default commander rules don't actually include the rules commander rules committee surprisingly.
Isn't commander a one of format? So it's not really a side board in spirit. I have always had extra cards behind the divider since i started playing commander mostly basic lands at first, but it grew into 15 to 25 cards. I play at WPN and non WPN stores and no one has ever questioned it out loud.
Absolutely, my proposal is to have cards that you can sub in and out prior to game 1 once you see what your opponents are playing to even the playing field. I'm not interested in grabbing a turn 3 win against a pre-con so I'll swap out my commander and some fast mana for some slower, engine based strategies.
I do that, but I also have favorites that I'd enjoy being able to play at different levels without either struggling hopelessly or sitting on win cons just to keep the game going and/or letting someone else win.
I like doing this, especially as I am tuning a deck too. It helps me see if a particular synergy was too strong or weak, too fast or slow, and I note it down as an easy future swap to make.
Yeah i always have a "maybeboard"
If you get to the point of having 50 proxy cards in a sideboard, you might as well print your lands again and have two decks
The idea would be to have a sliding scale from low powered to CEDH, but I do get your point.
That's why you have a hard cap of 25, 1/4 or 25% of the deck, just like there is with 15 for the 60 card formats. Problem solved
@@TheFirstJake To be honest, if you ain't at a Pod with abolute brain dead people; if you play a Mana Crypt, you play automatically a 3vs1 if not everybody has a cEDH Deck for ~200 to 300 Bucks and above.
I agree with this, in some regard. As it works well with some decks and with others, it doesn't work at all.
Two types that it works particularly well with are Reanimator and Cascade. You can effortlessly power up or down your decks by swapping your Reanimator and Targets and Cascade Payoffs. And that only means changing at most 10 cards.
E.g. swapping Sheoldred the Apocalypse for a Grave Titan. Or Swapping a Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augar for a Supreme Exemplar. Both decks function exactly the same, but the power scales up and down a lot.
Caveat* You'll have to sandbag your interaction if you're running a lot of free spells in either case.
One fun version that i actually own in paper is my Maelstrom Wanderer deck. I currently have a stack of 58 big stompy splashy blue green and red or some combination creatures that I randomly draw 15 of at the start of every game and shuffle into my deck. These are my Cascade payoffs that in any given game I have no idea what I'm going to get to play.
I kinda do this with my Lord of Nazgul deck. One version runs a bunch of cheap counter spells to make wraiths on the cheap and control the flow of the game. Some of the people I play with, understandably, get frustrated when anytime they go to play anything with any actual power, I either say "no" or let it resolve, then immediately destroy it. So I keep a sideboard of more expensive (in mana) counter spells, and swap some of the black removal with some cheap cantrips. Gives me a similar play pattern, and it doesn't annoy as many people
That is exactly what I’m talking about! It’s awesome to hear people are already doing this.
Another cool thing about this is all the cards from Strixhaven with the Learn mechanic and cards like Wish and Fae of Wishes that allow you tutor cards from outside of the game can now be utilized to their full potential
Totally! There’s so many cards that just don’t work in commander and it makes me kinda sad. I really want to align the hedrons!
Congratulations on the milestone dude! It's veeeery well deserved and I hope that the growth of this channel is exponential.
On the topic.
I went from not knowing what a sideboard is for to not being able to build a deck without one and in a casual context it really feels weird.
Although my personal reason for this is that I simply want to put more of the cool cards that I like into my decks. Of course I can make a deck that's more than 60 card but I find the 60 card minimum + a 15 card sideboard to be very well callibrated. On top of that 75 sleeved cards fit the best in the deck boxes I have 😂...
I just like the option of having a small selection of optional cards that I might swap into my main deck between games instead of either not having the option at all or having to search through my entire collection to find what I think I'll need.
Thanks a ton! Good to see familiar faces through the entire process. Yeah as long as people aren't abusing it, sideboards are a lot of fun. Especially if you're running wishes.
Very interesting idea. I like cEDH a lot, and I’ve always held that competitive commander would do well with a sideboard. In commander you don’t need to do “best of” for a sideboard to work. I envision cEDH sideboards being 15 cards. Everyone would show their commanders when sitting down for a pod. Then based on the other three commanders at the table you’d make swaps in your 99 from your sideboard before doing the winner take all round like current tournaments. But I’d never thought about why a casual table would want something like this
That's interesting. I wonder if it would cause a movement away from generalized solutions to more targeted specific hate.
@@TheFirstJake probably, the general hate would probably still be main board but the sideboard would have targeted stax and control pieces that would get swapped in to disrupt the other decks at the table in a way your deck doesn’t care about. Whether that would be good for the format I can’t truly say but it’s always an idea that’s floated around in my head
My sideboard for my Vishgraz deck is nearly as big as the deck itself! I have so many different plans that I could do - ETB Blink Value, Artifact Creature Typal, Toxic/Proliferate, Sacrifice, Big Stompy.
I have taken out many Proliferate cards to actively make the deck weaker for some opponents because it's hard to interact with that.
I love the flavor of playing the way that the advertisements say - I am a Planeswalker, a wizard commanding an army!! I do my planning, I can bring clutch spells to target a specific opponent's strategy. My sideboard box is titled "Sideboards/Silver Bullets/Solutions"
Damn bro talk about resonating on the same wavelength! The fact that you came out with this video when just last week this very idea popped in my head is so sychronistic. When I upgrade my precons I keep the cards I removed for the deck in the box along with a lot of the cards i was considering that didn't quite make the cut, and I realized I had kind of created my own makeshift sideboard. Then it dawned on me that having a sideboard allows you to meta game against your pod if you are playing multiple games with the same deck, or if cards just don't perform the way you envisioned you can make changes on the fly. You took this to the next level and really analyzed it from all angles! Subscriber earned! So now the question is what do we set the numer of cards in the sideboard at? It's 15 for 60 card formats, but is that enough for a 100 card deck? And is 25 too much or is that the right amount considering that's exactly the same ratio of 1/4 as standard decks.
I do think that 25 is right from an impact/need ratio perspective, but it's unrealistic time-wise for swapping with other people sitting there so I lean towards just keeping it 15 for sideboard with maybe a bit more in a maybe-board for outside of table time.
Also I did the exact same thing with the MH3 Eldrazi precon and I've just been moving things in and out ever since.
@@TheFirstJake Yeah that's along the lines of what I was thinking. 25 feels right since it's essentially just scaling up along with the increased deck size. There's a 2 minutes timer for sideboarding in competitive, so with a larger sideboard in a multiplayer format, increasing it to a 5 minute period seems fair. I like the idea of a 25 card sideboard total, with a 5/5/15 split of 5 cards powering up/5 powering down and 15 slots for strategic tech.
OMG! I love the idea of turning Pako and Haldan into Finn and Jake with Adventure theme deck xD Fantastic idea... any chance for your decklist? I'm also playing this couple but sometimes I feel it is too powerful so maybe focusing on such a strict range of cards might be interesting
www.moxfield.com/decks/kmB3b-92wU-WaaUjPK1EGA
@@TheFirstJake Thank you Jake!!!
Everyone loves to over complicate commander, it's exhausting
Once I’m done with my Simic ponyo proxy deck I’d love a game against that adventure time deck it’s supposed to be a fun sea monster deck and now I think I’ll make a stronger merfolk deck as a sideboard. :)
Just started playing magic and your video on how to quit was suggested for me the other day lol thought that was funny 🤣 loving your content and your wholesome vibes my guy
Thanks! I really appreciate the kind words.
I'm playing wish cards and booster tutor in my commander decks and I don't care who doesn't like that
Oh man I love including silver bordered cards. Booster tutor is a funny one. My go-to include is Selfie Preservation. Always catches people off guard.
My home group side boards but I also don’t play 60 card as much as commander bc the power level is more even. I technically have a sideboard but it’s so I can play my highly tuned 9 with my pod’s precon 7.5 or 8s. I also run a few decks on that level. It’s fun to have a few decks, I wish I had a second 60 card deck that had a low power side board.
I have seen the logical conclusion of this in practice. People find out what is being played and then tune their deck with a bunch of hate cards to specifically target the table. This hasn't happened but the guy would most certainly put in boil if he found out I was playing eluge as an example. Before we talked about how side boarding to meta the table is technically against the rules he would alter his landbase to include a bunch of deserts to fire of scavenger grounds because he knows I play a lot of graveyard decks.
The answer. Don't assume you are playing cEDH. When you build a deck assume you are playing against upgraded precons with a $300 budget and plan to win once you have 8-9 mana available. Cut tutors entirely and bam! There you go, you can now play your deck at over 90% of tables.
Play with better people. This isn't something that can be solved with rules. If people aren't interested in having good games, there are infinite ways to make them miserable.
Let’s be real. The biggest problem is getting 15 extra same colored sleeves. (Yeah you can have them kinda floating in a separate container but then i gotta now unsleeve and resleeve the swaps).
Not just color, similar amounts of wear. I went to resleeve my modern deck and the sleeves that were used on the sideboard are noticeably less worn.
Sideboarding makes sense in a best of three. Casual commander doesn't care about that and frankly, neither does cedh. We switch decks between games, which takes the place of sideboarding
Who side bords in commander... What are you a try hard?
The opposite. The goal is to balance decks against each other, not to hate out specific strategies.
@TheFirstJake Fair enough I know people that will add like 5 grave yard hate cards because they lose one time.
My Commander deck has a 350 card sideboard. 😊
By default official rules edh doesn't have a sideboard because you literally treat your collection as a sideboard, wish effects even work.
Unfortunately wish effects explicitly do not work in EDH/Commander.
@@TheFirstJake rule 903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that
player can’t bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in
their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if
any color in its color identity isn’t in the color identity of the player’s commander.
Also by default commander rules don't actually include the rules commander rules committee surprisingly.
Isn't commander a one of format? So it's not really a side board in spirit. I have always had extra cards behind the divider since i started playing commander mostly basic lands at first, but it grew into 15 to 25 cards. I play at WPN and non WPN stores and no one has ever questioned it out loud.
Absolutely, my proposal is to have cards that you can sub in and out prior to game 1 once you see what your opponents are playing to even the playing field. I'm not interested in grabbing a turn 3 win against a pre-con so I'll swap out my commander and some fast mana for some slower, engine based strategies.
@TheFirstJake right on. I love what you're doing, man.
Thanks! It means a lot.
im all for sideboards in commander. just a note: the intro music of this video is terrible
Thanks!
just bring different decks.
So crazy it just might work!
@@jordangreen8309 much faster to
I do that, but I also have favorites that I'd enjoy being able to play at different levels without either struggling hopelessly or sitting on win cons just to keep the game going and/or letting someone else win.