VAN RECIRCULATING SHOWER | WATER QUALITY TESTING
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
- Check out our STEP-BY-STEP e-Book Recirculating Shower Guide that allows you to build this identical system in YOUR van.
It contains detailed sections on Framing, Plumbing, and Finishing, saving you thousands of research hours that we already did for you when creating this system.
📚 payhip.com/b/QB7ck
This shower allows us to SAFELY re-use 3 gallons of water for our showering needs... saving space, weight, and LOTS of water! We love it! 🙌🏻
We have received a number of questions about our recirculating shower- not only about HOW it works but IF the filtration system keeps the water SAFE for bathing use.
The only way to give a solid answer is to COLLECT DATA! We performed water quality analysis on 4 shower samples- water was collected and tested after showers #1, #3, #6, and #9 and compared to our controls. Each sample was then tested for levels of fecal coliforms, pH, orthophosphate, among other measures.
As always, please LIKE 👍🏻 this video, SUBSCRIBE to our channel, and COMMENT below!
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Thank you for your support! 🙏🏻
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Shower Introduction
0:36 Test Parameters
4:33 Acquiring Water Samples
7:39 Testing Procedure
9:29 Results
14:48 Discussion
19:14 Conclusion
the only reviewer actually testing their water scientifically. PROPS.
Thanks! 🙏🏻😊
@@TimKatieI am just finding your reclaim shower water system videos as part of my research on building my own system in my 82 MCI (old greyhound bus) and your system has been designed and built very similar to what I was intending to build but mine is on a bit larger scale size wise but it’s mainly my holding tank that is larger with a 25 gallon tank and everything else is basically the same. I’m impressed that y’all are the only ones that went the final mile and had actual lab testing to ensure your maintaining a safe and healthy shower system. I’m gonna go ahead and buy your ebook this weekend to use it as my resource on building my shower system. I’ve been collecting parts and pieces all summer so when I finally had everything then I would put it all together. I’m really looking forward to this system and being able to add the luxury of taking an hour long shower if I want to and not worry about using up all my fresh water. Out of all this tho, I did have one question that has come to mind that I’m extremely curious about which maybe you’ve already covered in another video and I will subscribe and search your channel for the info but I’m also gonna ask here, since you’ve had your shower up & running for a bit more than one year, are you still as excited about your shower now as you were one year ago, is there anything you would do differently now or maybe equipment, would you still use the same major pieces, etc? I’d love to hear your thoughts of one year later please if you wouldn’t mind so if there’s something we can make better from your experience while I build it instead of trying to retrofit later, if that makes sense.
Thank you for all the time and effort y’all put into the design, build, testing, and follow up to help others like myself to put together a similar system without spending a year researching and trial and error ourselves! It’s blatantly obvious you both have spent ridiculous hours designing, building, & testing just to help the few of us out here that will actually build a system, thank you very much!!
@@1982MCI Ive been looking around at different bus builds and bus builds for a while, but im thinking within the next 5 years or so, i will be at least starting to seriously look for a bus to convert or modify. i started thinking about a recirculating shower as well. my ideas/theories for a recirculating shower:
have a set of valves, either manual or power actuated, on both the drain, to connect between the gray/wastewater tank and the recirculating holding tank AND the shower faucet, that way youre not using up the filters if you have a hookup, or just dont want to use it.
a common way to filter out sediment is to not put the pipe that feeds the shower faucet on the top or the bottom, otherwise your pump will suck in whatever sediment floats to the top of the tank or the very bottom. this is just my theory - put a 90 degree elbow facing downwards from the top, putting another length on that elbow to keep it far enough off the bottom to not suck up heavy sediment, but low enough that youre able to use as much water as possible without skimming the surface of the water. the possible downside to this is a slightly bigger tank, but it might be doable in a larger bus conversion.
On the lowest point of the system, i think i would want a way to drain the system into my grey/wastewater tank, but that might be because im either going to have one combined tank with a standard rv toilet, or an incinerating toilet.
i dont know how the water would stay hot, i was thinking maybe a separate valve with the hot water pouring into the shower, so that you can just add the water into the holding tank.
There are downsides to my idea, but i literally just came up with it earlier today, and really the only 2 things that i dont have enough of right now to start a project of this scale is money and time, all of that should come within the next 5 years or so, and im still young so im willing to wait it out
Nice test. Thank you.
A few years back I set up a 5-gallon system similar to yours with similar results, including the maintenance. I didn't like the touchy-feely maintenance part. And wasn't completely happy with the water past 4 or 5 showers. And I like soap, lots of soap. I get dirty.
So, I removed all the filters and installed a 1-quart volume back flush DE sand filter. Much to my surprise it appears to catch all the soap, and the water is ALWAYS clear coming out of the shower head into a glass.
My plan was to back flush the filter and change the water after every shower and change the sand every week. That turned out to be excessive. By a lot.
So, I flush the filter and change the water after 10 showers, add 4 drops of chlorine after each shower then run the shower for a few minutes and change the sand every 2 months. Changing the sand takes about 5 minutes with a vacuum.
Those aquarium sand filters are amazing. The water looks better after the 5-gallon back flush than "my" local tap water looks going in on the fill up. But I won't be shaving or brushing my teeth in there.
Bottom line is I feel just as clean in this shower as I do in the house shower, definitely cleaner than the campground shower "probably psychological" and I haven't made myself sick yet.
A 30-minuet hot shower is a good thing. Can't do that with a 6-gallon water heater on a 20-gallon freshwater tank.
And I have no black tank. There're better ways.
All the best to you and yours.
Thank you for the feedback and suggestion! Sand filters are very effective! All the best
Sounds interesting. What kind of sand filter do you have? And is it a "DE" filter or a standard pool-type sand filter? And how about the size?
One of the coolest vanlife videos of all time. This video could literally change how people even companies design the lay out of their vans. Great help for the community.
Thank you! 🙏🏻 That is very kind of you. We hope the community finds it helpful 😊
Having a recirculating shower in my van for almost a year now and and my love of data it’s great to see those two things combined! Great job on the testing
I'm following Alex footsteps with recirculating shower and this is good news! Not that thinking that recirculation isn't any worse than having bath tub session or swimming in public pool.
My solution has plate heat exchanger and just 5.5 liters "gray" holding tank. Is it good or bad in means of water quality, at least it saves water, if it works, and makes it easier to dump water more often
Thank you! 🙏🏻 We love hearing that you have a recirc shower as well!
@@TimKatie mine is well planned, parts purchased but yet to complete building. Will happen soon after some higher priority tasks
@@mhelander I never thought about the comparison to a bath tub but that is an excellent example of basically the same water as a recirculating shower difference being you are not sitting in it.
A couple that lives down the road from us “shares” bath water, she goes first and gets clean then he bathes after her, I think a recirculating shower is MORE sanitary than that by far!
Great videos! How many (15 minute?) showers before filters have to be changed (& what’s it cost (time and money))?
I like the idea of being able to switch to rinsing off soap into the grey tank during a shower, and keeping the soap out of the recirculating water all together. One way to do this would be to switch to supplying the hot water tank with fresh water, instead of supplying it with the recirculating water. And at the same time, switch to pumping the drain water into the grey tank
Skin and sweat has much bacteria. Bacteria can decompose into ammonia when it dies. Some bacteria excretes ammonia as waste. I've heard people say that old sweat smells like ammonia.
Water companies add a little chlorine to tap water to kill bacteria for safety. Pools have chlorine to kill germs so that swimmers don't spread them to one another. Like this, you might use a little bleach. Seems like I've heard a 1% bleach solution is sterilizing.
Nice van build, nice videos. Thank you :)
Thanks for sharing! I’ve seen a few recirc shower systems that seem to use that design - more complex but definitely doable!
@Bryant D That´s exactly what I´m on about since the first videos of "recirculating shower" came up here on youTube about 2 years ago - only you are perhaps saying in a nicer way than I could,
Thank you for sharing your water testing results. 8 showers with filter cleaning sounds a lot better than carrying 8 containers with 5 gallons of water and Way better than not showering.
Thanks for watching :)
Kinda wish you had thrown one sample from your local public community pool... just because!
Love those results.
Haha that would’ve been a great idea. I’d be curious to see the results. Thanks! 😊
@@TimKatie i wouldnt ..you would never use a public pool again,one thing to shower in your own water but if you know the results of the public...yuk.
I really appreciate the efforts guys!
One thing I really enjoy is a long hot shower ( as does my wife ) and the idea of using tons of water or giving up nice showers has always been a bit of a problem for me but this test of yours has confirmed my belief that recirculating showers are the way to go! Even if a person changes the water after each shower it still saves a ton of water!
Thanks for the comment! We’re happy to hear you found it helpful 😊
Someone took a number 2 while showering during the test showers, that's why there was a spike. LOL!!! Just kidding!!! Awesome video. I really like your channel, thanks for making all these awesome videos!!!
So shocked this video doesn’t have .5M views. Superb quality and information! Thanks!
Thank you! 😊
There are a few things that affect fecal coliforms. Time is one. However, since insufficient time elapsed between the samples taken at shower #3 and shower #6, time can be ruled out. Temperature, chlorine and iodine treatments can all kill the bacteria. Again, none of these apply.
Since the bacteria count spiked in the shower #3 sample, then went back to undetectable, I'd say that either the UV treatment effectively killed the bacteria, or the sample was contaminated during testing. Either seems likely, though I lean toward sample contamination as total dissolved solids increased between samples. If anything, this would negatively impact UV treatment efficacy.
Great content...as always. Keep up the good work!
Cool guys! I have been really curious about this system. Really appreciate you sharing the process.
Thank you! 🙏🏻😊
What I think is important is to figure out how many gallons/liters of water you use per shower to get an idea how many times the water went through the loop
I have a recirculating shower, I rinse initially into the gray tank, I then recirculate a gallon of water as long as I want, then I drain it into the gray tank, and then rinse with fresh water for 20 seconds or so, I’d never consider even a second shower with sitting recycled water, I use a total of 2-3 gallons per shower
I'm doing something similar. I like this ideal the best. I use a heat exchanger as well, so no shower water gets into my HW heater. 1 TSP of Epson salt can help the filter do a better job as well. I use 1.5 gallons, 2 total with rinse.
How did you set yours up
Can you wash your hair pk
this would be ideal!
I don’t really want to take showers in the van but I this would work for me with washing dishes!!
So awesome thanks for doing this!! I absolutely had the same idea before I even knew this was a thing.. lol. I'm building a freezer truck body on a trailer into a tiny home and was concerned about the weight rating of my trailer didn't want to hold a ton of water on board so this was a perfect solution! I hope there's lots more testing broadly with this concept I think it is absolutely very viable! I mean most people don't even know that our tap water nowadays is recycled sewage. 🤣
Thanks for watching! Good thinking - we hope others do more detailed testing as well. Good luck with your tiny home build!
I have just installed a system like this in my van. However my main concern is that soap increases water turbidity, and turbidity seriously inhibits the ability for UV light to sterilise the water effectively. So we've started flushing the system after every shower (we're a family of 4, so we all shower on the same day so that's 4 showers). Finding it a bit of a chore at the moment, especially as flushing all the old water out of the system seems to take almost as much water as we used to shower in, if not more!!
the clarity and UV effectiveness can be maintained with a small tweak. adding epsom salts (about a tsp per shower) will react with the soap and make it drop out of solution. To make it work properly though you need to have a .5 or 1/2 micron carbon filter to actually filter out the soap solids.
@@euphioquestion420 interesting, I will give this a try! Thanks!
I have seen SO many videos on using a recirculating shower in a van, and this is by far the best as there is actual scientific testing involved, everyone else is just speculative, I have all my questions and concerns answered and I thank you for doing this. Great Job!
Thank you! We’re happy to hear you found it helpful.
Regarding the ammonia, if you look into the nitrogen cycle that occurs in a fish tank and in nature everywhere you’ll see that nitrates will be converted into ammonia through beneficial micro organisms.
I could see these microorganisms taking up life in the water pump.
Thanks for the comment! Our understanding is that by the time this process has occurred in this shower the water will have long been drained and system bleached, but would be interesting to retest say a year down the road!
My hats off to you, I am considering an off grid recirculating shower design in a place with very little water (Santa Barbara) and I will probably buy your book to speed up the design, since this video proves that it works. Here's my thoughts - for context my background: product development mechanical engineer and I happen to collect orchids, so I have some familiarity with both designing/debugging stuff and water quality metrics.
1) For clarity it might be easier to see trends if the data is displayed with the cycle number progressing linearly rather than progressing: control, 0, 1, 3, 6, 9
2) The pH increase of 2 is pretty weird. You could test your theory of time in container by using a cheap home pH meter and testing it right when the sample is pulled and at some regular intervals and see if it tracks. My thought was maybe a sensor was used that hadn't been calibrated?
Assuming the correction is valid it looks like it leveled off? I wonder why that would happen - maybe more buffer agents are being introduced over time?
3) Interesting to see TDS leveling off. Your theory makes sense. Ammonia content - I guessed sweat also. Keeps climbing fairly linearly. Nitrates also leveling off, Alkalinity looks roughly linear. And it's good to hear your turd filters are working.
4) Dip in phosphate is weird, did the water testing place happen to give you measurement precision for each of these? generally leveling off.
5) Water dilution is actually quite the problem here. Although a little less than 10%, it gets diluted nearly ten times. 91.7% to the 9th power is 46%, so less than half the water you end up with is the same as when you started. Possible solutions: can less than 1L actually be used as a sample. Or better yet, test less often, like only once after 10 cycles.
How did you choose 6 cycles and why is 10 cycles the limit your recommendation, which metric worries you the most and why not go much higher, like to 50 or 100 cycles if most of the metrics show that it's leveling off.
Thanks for your detailed comment and feedback!
We appreciate your insights - all good thoughts.
~6-10 cycles is our limit recommendation mainly based on the the water starting to get murky at that point and the fact that we tested the water to that point. We completely agree that water dilution is the issue in our test, and if we had the time a single test after 10 showers would be interesting.
well done guys - brilliantly done and shared, love it! Thanks for putting this together :)
Thanks so much! 🙏🏻 We’re glad you enjoyed it and appreciate the feedback 😊
That was fascinating, thank you for the effort 👍
Thanks for watching! 😊
I have wanted to see this test FOREVER!!! Thank you!
You’re welcome! 😊 We’re glad you found it helpful!
Great video and certainly something I will consider fitting to our truck
Thank you! 🙏🏻 Good luck with your truck and feel free to reach out if you have any questions 😊
This is awesome guys !
The results are outstanding !
Thanks for doing this for the community
Thanks for watching! 😊
Great video and research, guys!
Thank you! 🙏🏻😊
What a nice young couple with beautiful van
Thank you 😊
Awesome! I have been thinking on this very topic now since we are spending more time in our RV. Thank you!
Nice presentation style and informative. Great stuff.
Thank you!
Great video thank you!
Thanks for watching! 🙏🏻😊
Good information!
Thanks!
Nice video. Appreciate your cognizance and discussion of the difficulties with controlling variables.
Thanks for the feedback, Bill! 🙏🏻
SUBSCRIBED and LIKED - t.y. this video covers much of the information needed for one looking to implement such beast.
So, this amounts to a weekly cycle maintenance for one person taking a daily shower.
The testing is priceless, *(missing on all videos) I have seen so far.
UPDATE: you recycle 3.5 gals( I think), so if you make the shower tanks 7 gals... it gets a bit better, surely...
...a few more details that were missing, ...I know..., how demanding!:
- the soap(s) used is critical... all the oils will clog the filters RAPIDLY!
some individuals mention to not use any soap, just a brush and water.
- a list of the components in the system, and their installation order
- the frequency of replacement for each replaceable part *(missing on all videos)
- the actual quantity of water cycled thru the system/filters at each shower, since the water is recirculating? *(missing on all videos)
I don't think this video includes long showers!?
- (cake-and-eat-it-too)detailed cost list for all of the above items in this system
Maintenance:
- basically a daily clean up of the filter,
- a weekly cleaning of all filters,
- a flush and treatment of the whole system (between 7 and 10 showers)
--- For 2 persons that would be a be twice a week!!! hmmm!
Thanks for the comment and feedback!
- I believe we mentioned the soap (maybe in another video tho), we use and recommend dr bronners all natural liquid soap
- all components and steps to building the system are listed in full detail in the eBook (linked in description)
- clean strainers after ~15 showers, replace sediment filter ($4) after ~20-30 showers, replace carbon filter ($20) after ~50-60 showers, replace UV light ($90) every couple years.
- 3 gallons, as mentioned in the video
- total cost is ~$1800 usd but always changing, can be seen via the parts list in the eBook 👍🏻
Excellent video and great information! We're building our sprinter van with a recirculating shower as well and looking forward to start using it as early as next month. Your van looks great by the way!👏🏼
Thank you! Congratulations on your build and safe travels! 😊
Great work u guys. Thanks for sharing such a wonderful test.💕👍
Thanks for watching! 🙏🏻😊
@@TimKatie keep up the good work, may Blessings be in all the great work you guys created and shared💕. I will try your system in my van soon. Thanks again
Thanks for all the informations! I'm really looking forward to install a recirculating shower in my future box van built next winter.
Thank you for the feedback! We love the recirculating shower and plan to do the same on our next build 👍🏻
I had questions about this system, you guys answered them. Thanks!!!
Good to hear! Cheers
Thanks for the vid! :D
Thanks for watching! 😊
Nice testing shared
Plastic tanks, lines, fittings, air quality variables. Every 6 sounds pretty safe.
Thanx for the reassurance and follow up.
Thanks for the feedback!
THIS is the video I was searching for.
Thank you so much for what you did for the community. I think it will efficiently help us all to choose if recirculating shower is a good option or not.
Thanks for your feedback! 🙏🏻😊
thanks for doing that testing..im convinced its the way to go and would consider for a second shower in the house for the busier times
We’re glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching! :)
Love it!
Thought about going this route as well.
Couple questions:
1. Did you consider an RO system instead of the filtration? Any thoughts/comments on that?
2. Did you happen to know what the "safe" limit for each criteria tested was? It would be great to see how well within the limits your system is operating.
3. Is there any way to setup sensors or some kind of monitoring system for any of the tests you ran, or maybe for keeping track of how much water has ran through the system between flush & clean outs.
Thanks! Briefly considered RO filter system but it takes a long time to filter the water and does not have UV component.
Yes I shared these in the photo comments on this post: facebook.com/groups/campervanselfbuild/permalink/10159483011224670/
Certainly, some people setup Arduinos with sensors and electronic ball valves. It just depends how complex you’re comfortable making it
@@TimKatie I'd also like to know what the "safe" limit and the facebook post isn't working anymore. Could you share this info ?
FB post works fine, I just “joined “ the group
Way cool testing. That's a big Yes on installing a recirculating shower.
Thank you for that reassurance about the water filtration quality.
I'm thinking about 6 uses and changing water and cleaning the system.
Right on guys. Thanks for sharing that valuable information.
Safe & Great traveling.
Thanks, Tim! Thanks for the feedback. 6 uses sounds like a reasonable and safe amount to us - that’s what we went by as well. Cheers, hope to see you on the road!
cool that you can survive showering in the same water.... but still that cloudy water is a tad GRRRRROOOOOOSSSSS ! lol... thanks for the video !!!
Haha fair enough! Definitely not drinking that after shower #9… Thanks for watching 😊
Thank you VERY much for this information. I know it's dated, but I'm starting my build and will have a recirculating shower. I'll take a look at the book.
We're happy to hear you found it helpful. All the best with your build!
Thank you for doing the test. I have been wondering about the quality of bacteria contaminants.
Thanks for watching! 😊
Great video. Thanks for taking your time to help others. Glad I saw this. Two items were learned, test results and using 12L of water. 12l is great on weight. I was going with 5gal until I saw your video. Guess time to look at ebook for your filter system. I have problems that might cause to have earlier filter maintenance. Age shin and psoriasis
Thanks for the feedback! We hope you find the eBook helpful - please feel free to report back with your results 😊
@@TimKatie two ? Why 2 filters and not 3 carbon filter and why did you mount filters sideways? Thanks.
Good stuff guys! One thing I'm still very curious about are the filters itself. How long do they last? Do they require certain cleaning themselves over time or simply replacement? I.e. a bit of the cost of ownership and maintenance picture.
Thanks! Great question and I apologize for not covering this in the video: Water gets drained/refilled every ~6 showers (at which point we also clean out strainers), and system cleaned with 10% bleach after ~15 showers (at this point remove filters to spray them out, replace as needed). Sediment filter ($10) after ~1-2 months, carbon ($30) ~4-6 mths, UV ($90) ~1-2 yrs
Here in the UK our tap water is 7.1ph so looking at your chart it seems the filters are cleaning the water perfectly
This is AWESOME!!! Thank you for doing this test! I’m curious, have you considered using ammonia absorbing media? There is also nitrate absorbing and phosphate absorbing type media, and a small amount of coconut core will balance PH. How is it doing a year later?
I'm pretty happy with the thought of one shower with 3 or maybe 2 gallons of water. I would not mind replacing the water.
What is the water heater system? How much water does it take to flush it after taking a shower?
I'm thinking about filling the recirculating tank with hot water when taking a shower and then flush the tank. This would give you a 15, 20 minute shower or whatever you want with just 2 gallons of water.
Thank you, I find this very useful. I will definitely consider a recirculating shower on my next build. It’s such a psychological hurdle. I’m curious do you feel clean after multiple showers? Like does it feel less fresh? Thanks again!
Yes!
I have book marked your ebook! I have be watching a ton of CLASS B videos, need to get my van first. Then the arduous build begins! I suspect one could modify your design by adding certain additional and/or larger filters for fine tuning?
Awesome - thank you! Good luck with your search for a van 😊 Yes exactly, it would be very easy to modify our design with larger/smaller filters as wanted 👍🏻
You should this test with a UV + Reverse osmosis 7 stage filtration system. I feel like you're filters aren't updated
This is incredibly helpful! Thank you! My husband has run across folks saying that they experience too much gunk in filters from using soap and find the maintenance to be too much. What kind of soap do you use and do you find maintenance or replacement of filters to be too much?
We’re glad to hear you found it helpful! We found dr. Bronner’s all natural liquid soap to be the best and minimal clogging in the filters. We didn’t find maintenance to be an issue before we sold it and are doing a near identical shower in our current build 👍🏻
Great video and excellent results. I'm in the early process of a design for a similar system in our RV, with some modifications. We are installing a propane toilet and will use the old black water tank as the shower reservoir (26 gallons). We will also install a bypass allowing the shower water to circulate through the filters and back into the holding tank without the shower operating. Thoughts here are a larger reservoir and the ability to filter without showering would greatly extend the lifespan of the shower water. Thoughts?
Thanks for the feedback! I’m not sure I understand the benefit of adding such a large holding tank - but it would be interesting to see if recirculating it through the filters continuously without the shower running results in cleaner water!
@@TimKatie This is all in my head but the advantages of the larger tank would be the ability to dilute the pollutants in a greater volume of water, greatly extending the time between "flush and fill" cycles. I also think by diluting, the filters can be more effective in removing particulates and such.
@@SofaKing5 I imagine using a smaller volume and changing it more often would be so much better, would you want to take a shower in water you used 10 times?? If you use a couple of liters you can change it every time
Wow, this is an amazing detailed analysis of your circulating shower system. I am a little curious though how would the ph decrease while the alkalinity of the water increase?
Thank you! 🙏🏻 We were curious about this as well. We learned that the ph shows if the water is acidic, neutral, or basic, but alkalinity refers to the buffering capacity of the water. So yes, there should be some correlation between the two but we suspect a latent effect that we’d need to do a longer test period to see
I think ppm (parts per million ) level effect to the Ph level. 50-200 ppm is a tap water = Ph level will be 7 , if ppm level over 1000 its meaning water contain lot particles its meaning water very dirty. If ppm level near the zero meaning water Ph level lower than 7 , its meaning water is a more acidic
Great video to see how the system holds up. It still doesn't make sense for us to incorporate. Since we are building a weekend beach cruiser and a summer month long traveler to do filming in other locations
Thank you! 🙏🏻 That makes sense - definitely need to weigh the pros and cons for each setup 😊
Have watched a bunch of shower videos and have some thoughts/questions. For the average shower, how many loops through the system does the water make? (Function of shower head throughput and length of shower). Might it be helpful to have a “filter” mode that bypasses the shower head and you could filter as long as you liked (especially helpful for the UV unit where total treatment is a function of flow rate and total time). Some sort of “campground” mode might be useful for those who spend significant time with water hookups (campgrounds or someone’s driveway).
Thanks for doing this, very informative. But can you please add somewhere which levels are still considered safe?
That’s a good idea. I will add the normative values to the video description 👍🏻
Do you have a video showing the disassemble and cleaning of the filters? I’m curious if any water spills out and if you have a catch basin under the filters?
Hopefully coming soon. In that design we had to drain all the water out to avoid spilling, but in our new van (V2) I installed the filters upright which made for easier removal and no concern about spilling
That is good news. Please don't take this the wrong way. If the last test was consideredI very sensitive, I'm surprised there weren't even a trace amount (though safe level) of the so called faecal matter. I mean, we wash our bodies, including our own piping, if you get the drift. So surely from that point of view we should expect some trace amount in the sensitive test?
Not at all, thanks for the comment. Our understanding is that it confirms the UV light and other filters were working correctly 👍🏻
@@TimKatie I see. Thanks for replying.
When not showering a loop bypassing the shower head would allow multiple passes through your filter system and UV, further polishing your reserve without introducing airborne contaminants. Moving water stays cleaner.
Good idea. We always drain the system if there’s going to be more than 1-2 days without use, but definitely something to consider. Thanks for the suggestion!
Where do I find the shower pan you guys used in your build. Also is the Nautilus door 36x64 and is there a opening right to left I thinks yours opens left to right, anyway with toliet toward front of van?
Urea is in not only sweat but also used in moisturizers. That could be another source of ammonia.
Also have the same setup but I use a full organic soap and no shampoo or conditioner and I aded a uv filter in the that kills any bacteria or moldy stuff that might want to grow
Nice! Sounds like you have a similar setup as we also use all natural soap and UV light filter
Does this system need on-demand heater? If so, how much solar/electric you will need to run both of these systems?
Thanks so much! :)
"the things we do for science right"
😂😂
While you are not using the system there are certainly organic particles in there that will result in "rotting" or yeasting (because your uv filter won't do much between showers) i suspect this mainly happens in the 5 gallon tank. I'm not quite sure if the process being anaerobic adds to the production of ammonia, it adds to the production of methane for sure....
The ammonia only rises by 10mg per shower. That is the equivalent of a Tablespoon of Urin. So we know you didn't pee! Also that it is more than the couple drops you get from toilet paper not wiping up everything.
I'm pretty sure that ammonia comes from sweat. I couldn't find how much ammonia a person sweats per day, but 10mg doesn't seem unreasonable. I did find that ammonia is definitely excreted through sweat.
How is build the filtration sistem. And what products you use for body cleaning
sweating also produces ammonia and peeing is not the only way to get it out of the system
Did you consider extrapolating the data? Surely that would have made the data curve look less drastic in that latter end of the tests
Ammonia can be produced by bacteria. I was contemplating putting a recirculating shower in my van project, but was concerned about possible Legionella growth.
I like the idea of being able to have a 'normal' shower, ie not turning the tap on & off between soaping. So I would incorporate the recycling of the shower water, but drop it into a black-water tank after use or end of the day.
Was my concern as well but I'm designing mine with a thermostatic valve. Set shower at 40c for shower and crank to 65c when done for 2 minutes. Legionella dies off at 60C in 2 min, instantly at 70. Then drop a small cap of bleach in the drain for extra safety and your good for bacterial growth death. My set up is is based off a kdp filter followed by catalytic carbon and uvc.
Definitely - this is one reason why we advise draining/refilling the system and flushing with bleach at regular intervals. But there are other systems out there that allow you to have a “normal” shower and “recirc” shower for portions
I am still on the fence about a system like this. I like the idea of carrying less water, endless showers, and filling the grey tank slower. I think I would be adding a small amount of bleach to my recirculating water so it is the same chlorine level as pool water. I also do not like the idea of making more waste with buying multiple filters every few months. Are your water heater, mixing valve in the shower, water lines, UV sanitizer going to become gunked up with soap scum and stop working sooner than with non recirculated fresh water.
I think you should think of it as a hot tub as well and get the kit for testing a hot tub Then you can control the PH level and other stuff as like in a hot tub
Thanks for the suggestion!
Could you add a reverse osmosis system after the Uv light to pull out those last contaminates?
Reverse Osmosis systems sacrifice half the water that passes through them and SEVERLY limit flow rate. Most showers move around 2-3 gallons per minute while typical reverse osmosis filters only move about 3 gallons PER HOUR and require a much higher pressure pump. You could have the RO filter purify the water between showers, but rather than using 3 gallons for 9 showers you'll now be using 15 gallons albeit with a much better water quality. A RO would be wasteful overkill for a system like this.
Brilliant. I have seen several recirc shower vids - yours is the FIRST to scientifically (or any other way!) test the quality! Question - would it be a reasonable conclusion to say 6 showers then change the water? Or is 9 showers fine, but maybe use less "cloggy" soaps? I wondered too if it would be worth showering sans soaps and hair products - then turn off the recirc - lather up with soaps and hair products (organic) and RINSE OFF with fresh water? (I know, I know, it may mean dual shower hoses, or a switchable system etc) but it might save on clogged filters?) I'm probably missing something important (like how do you keep the recirc and fresh water separate?) But I'm just rumionating lol....
Thanks! There has been some discussion surrounding the benefits of a hybrid system recirc and then flush with clean water at the end type system. Would be more complex but interesting idea for sure
Im wondering if during down time you could pump it through maybe a gallon of sand to maybe catch some of the soap n junk and let it go through one of them berkey type filters back into your normal tank would keep it clearer. They make big claims about how it will purify most water to drinkable. Maybe over night as you sleep, dont know how long it takes one of those to filter 3 or 4 gallons.
I would have loved to see day 9 water go through a birkey water filter and tested. I'm curious if you could put it through a birkey and put it back in the system and get another week...
Interesting idea!
Recirculating toilet next.
Amazing content, thank you!
May I ask, where is your recirculating shower tank? Isn't it under the van? I am asking because you mentioned it's freezing proof in another video.
Also, did you use soap and shampoo? Does the water get a strange texture at some point because of soap and shampoo?
I think sweat releases ammonia, anyways if you are considering repeating the testing, try using some gloves to avoid contamination :)
Thanks for the feedback! The recirculating shower components are all housed inside the bench seat (inside the van) so none of the components/plumbing are outside or underneath the van.
We used all natural liquid soap. If you use shampoo it will make the water murky quite quickly, so with our system we found it best to use the outdoor shower or sink for washing hair with shampoo if needed.
@@TimKatie thank you!
@@TimKatie I’m thinking that a large(r) kitchen sink would be a good way to shampoo hair in colder weather. And I learned from traveling in Central America that Americans shower way more than most people.
@@RustyCas999 Agreed! We think the kitchen sink is a good solution when needed in colder weather and definitely isn’t needed very frequently
Where is the video to your shower system?
Thank you for great video, you mentioned at 19m 30s that once a month you inspect/replace filters, does that mean once every sixty showers (i.e. taking two showers a day)?
If that answer is yes, if you shower twice a week, sixty showers will take 30 weeks, would you wait to inspect filters on the 30 week mark? Happy Travels!
Thanks for watching. YMMV, but we don’t live in our van full time, so we used once/month as a general guideline and it equates to ~every 30 showers. But we would not leave water in the system when not in use for prolonged periods. Cheers
It might also be possible to essentially vapor distill the water from your system after each use, so that the water in the recirculating system remains cleaner for longer.
Interesting idea - thanks
Just wondering what constitutes a 'shower'? Is it just water or is soap and shampoo being used. There doesn't seem to be anything mentioned.
Hmm good point. In our testing and real world use, a shower is water and soap (dr. Bronner’s all natural liquid soap) but no shampoo
Just watched a pretty in depth video of a couple going thru the plusses and minuses of their same type of system. They said they were overall probably 80-85% happy with it, BUT they acknowledged that it needed a bit of weekly and monthly maintenance to keep it running optimally, and they said they noticed sort of early that it couldn't quite get all of the slick, soapiness out of the water and they switched to soapless showers, using wet-wipes to clean certain parts instead. And the woman said she'd mostly do her hair in the kitchen sink. Overall they were positive on it--but they did acknowledge certain shortcomings. YMMV.
Performance definitely varies from person to person and the exact design of the shower. I would be curious what type of soap they use as we found that to be a crucial factor. Dr. Bronner’s all natural liquid soap made a huge difference for us. Shampoo will clog up the filters almost immediately and we agree should be done in the sink or outdoor shower
@@TimKatie they mentioned they were going to look into the 'natural' brands of soaps more, but hadn't done so yet. If you've found a soap that seems to work, doesn't gum up the system, and doesn't leave the water feeling all slick, then it sounds like you're good to go. Overall they were high on it, but they said they did have to do some pretty simple and quick type of maintenance. I"ll see if I can find the exact video...
@@TimKatie it was "RECIRCULATING SHOWER for Vanlife: The Truth and What You Need to Know!" by wanderful something or other.
Is there any way to make this system work with the heavy soaps and shampoos ? I feel that can be a deal breaker for many users. What modifications are necessary to allow for heavy soaps?
@@tommaloney3112 tbh, from what I was seeing, these systems don't do that well with heavy soaps.
What kinds of soaps are you using? I would love to see if the results are different with non-oil based soaps, biodegradable soaps, or soapless shower options.
We use Dr. bronner’s all natural liquid soap. We found it worked the best 👍🏻
Hi Tim and Kate, I see you have a home where you could clean out your shower system. But if the van is ones only home, how would you clean things out on the road. For example disposing of bleach etc. In some cities the rainwater system is connected to the sewage treatment so I wouldn't have qualms pouring bleach down the rainwater drains. But some cities don't treat rainwater.
That's a good question. I would suggest putting a 5 gallon bucket under the drain to dispose of appropriately, or install a small ~5-10 gallon greywater tank for the shower so that you could drain it multiple times before needing to find somewhere to dump it.
@@TimKatie just wanted to make sure I'm understanding you correctly - so in the video you said you run bleach through the system once a month, so either catch the bleach in a bucket like you did when draining the shower, or catch the bleach in the greywater tank. And in both cases, find an appropriate facility to dump it (RV dump station, public bathroom, etc).
It seems the second solution is simpler on the road, no? once a month run bleach through the system, make sure to empty the contents into the greywater tank and not let it recirculate back into the shower. Then empty it as you would with any greywater tank at appropriate facilities. It would be all self contained and no bleach would get in rainwater systems or out in nature.
@@lifeissoup_iamfork Yes, exactly. That’s what I meant :) I definitely agree that the second solution would be simpler and more of a long term solution. I hope that helps!
@@TimKatie yes that helps a lot, thank you for responding and explaining. Looking forward to more great content from you guys in the future!
Real talk what does the water smell like? Is it noticably different? Also, what is it like when it comes time for clean up, is it gnarly or fairly mild?
How often do you change the filters?
We replace the water after every ~6 showers (at which point we also clean out strainers). The system is cleaned with 10% bleach after ~15 showers (at this point we remove filters to spray them out and replace as needed). Sediment filter ($10) after ~1-2 months, carbon ($30) ~4-6 mths, UV ($80) ~1-2 yrs
Curious to know which chemicals and substances were used while showering. Some products won’t filter easily
Dr. Bronner’s all natural liquid soap was the only thing used
@@TimKatie Thanks for your efforts and the generosity of your friend to conduct this test.
It would be nice to bother him for another test after 20 showers and then 30 etc. I also think a full water treatment system is what would ultimately be needed after 6-10 showers
Interesting. I've been planning a recirculating shower since seeing Curt & Snow install one in their van a couple of years ago. Similar filtration set-up, although he used a 10 gallon tank for the reservoir.
I wonder if it would worth it to install an additional UV light in the tank itself as an attempt to prevent some growth in the tank before it even has a chance to grow and get into the filtration system.
Interesting thought - I’m not sure if it’s necessary and we flush the system out with bleach every couple weeks but would be interesting to retest the water quality in say 6-8 months
@@TimKatie Great set up. How do you flush the system? Does it take long and does it leave "residual" stuff in the tank and pipes etc
@@RodricWeiland-Au Thank you. We flush the system by opening the drain valve and running the 12V pump (takes
What type of soap and shampoo did you use? Water does not have to be pure to get you clean. How did the end result compare to safe drinking water? With a few drops of bleach, you could probably four time the showers?
initial cost of the system? and what is an estimate of maintain /replacement filters for one yr? and finally how much time in a yr is spent maintaining the system?
Initial cost of the system was around $1700 USD (including framing, vinyl for walls, plumbing, pump, filters, etc). For our use, the water gets drained/refilled every ~6 showers (at which point we also clean out strainers), and system cleaned with 10% bleach after ~15 showers (at this point remove filters to spray them out, replace as needed). Sediment filter ($10) after ~1-2 months, carbon ($30) ~4-6 mths, UV ($90) ~1-2 yrs. So it would largely come down to how often you shower and how dirty you are 👍🏻
@@TimKatie Thank you so much!!!
@@sandrafromtexas1957 No problem! Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. We’re normally a bit quicker to reply on Instagram (@thetriointransit) if you’re on there 😊
I guess the way to have avoided adding in freshwater to replace the removed water would be had you held on to the same 'shower N' water from the week or so before. So you'd have to do all of this like twice, but the first time you just extract the water, put it in a bottle, and I guess refrigerate it. Then when you do the real experiment you use those saved bottles to replenish the system...
What soap do you guys use in your system? My filters get clogged after 6 showers.
Dr. Bronner’s all natural liquid soap 👍🏻
How clean did you feel after the last shower? Was it the same as after the first one?
Yep. No difference in terms of feeling of “cleanness”
@@TimKatie awesome thanks for the great video
You can weigh the water to measure it: 1kg = 1litre
Good idea. Next time 👍🏻