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Hi Frank. I like this video! Workbenches are very personal and they should be tailored to the preferences of the user, as you have demonstrated. I built my bench 44 years ago, and like you I made the top 30” wide. I’ve never regretted that choice. It’s perfect for me, as it should be. My front vise is also inside the leg. It’s never been a issue. Mine is decked in hard maple, as it is made from reclaimed bowling ally lumber. It was nearly 4” thick when I built it. I’ve reflattened the surface several times over the years and the bench is still nearly as thick as new. It doesn’t matter what other people think about your bench design. The only person it should matter to is the user, and you obviously have put a great deal of thought into yours. Thanks for sharing!
Good point regarding the placement of the vise. I’m just starting my bench and I think I am going to consider placing my vise in the center. It makes sense. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and keep up the good work.
My old man (pro carpenter) put a shelf under his bench 60yrs ago, I'm still using it today, couldn’t imagine not having it...and he put his vice on the end : )
Great demo and some awesome customisation. Your videos always give us plenty to think of. When you showed the shelves at the end of the bench I immediately thought of putting those shelves on runners. Could even fit a large shallow drawer. That would make it easier to access more items, cut down the dust and make even better use of that space.
The low cross member on the bench you mention at the beginning of the video helps by allowing you to brace yourself with your foot when planning or performing some other function. That’s why they exist.
You’ve become one of my favorite channels man. Ignore anybody that gets that mad over your preferences. You’re doing all the right things, and building precise approachable projects. One day, I’ve got to learn the secret to how you tune your hand planes. I’ve never seen one pushed across the face of a board with so little effort, and I’ve watched hours of Chris Schwartz material (also consider myself pretty good at sharpening/tuning)
Nice design, I like the higher position of the stretchers. One other thing you could do, is add a shelf on top of the stretchers, maybe glued and screwed sheet of plywood, or MDF, and maybe even another sheet on the bottom of the stretchers, then you have a main shelf on top, but you can also slide long items into the space between the stretchers to store lumber, or even just to add some extra weight to your bench if you want it. The layer of plywood on top and bottom effectively adds some extra depth and stiffness to the stretchers, turning them into a box beam. I personally prefer having the vice at the very end, so when I'm doing a cross cut on a large board held in my vice, i can keep the board level and saw plumb and no risk of accidentally cutting into my bench top when you get to that point which you demonstrate at 3:25. There's no need to cross your arms over either, just hold the larger piece in the vice, cut on the left side of the vice, and catch the off cut with your left hand before it falls on the floor!
Came across your channel and just had to subscribe. Your vise placement actually makes more sense based on your bench design - I.e leg placement. Having the vise all the way to the left introduces less overall support since you are outside the leg. Now, I’m off to check out your other vids!
I made my workbench 8’x32” with 5” casters. The top overhangs the base on both ends by 16” and has a shelf directly above the wheels to store tools and buckets. It will have cabinets shortly, but they aren’t built yet. I didn’t want to have to move my tools to wheel it outside. The bench matched the height of my table saw, so it works as a portable outfeed table
Do you prefer your current laminated workbench as opposed to the thin Nicholson? I am considering making my 4x8 plywood top assembly table/workbench have a Nicholson top to ensure flatness.
Thanks Frank., great video. I am working on ideas fr my first big bench build, and have seen the haters. We call it the “tall poppy syndrome”. Some people, when they see someone being innovative and potentially going to stand out in the crowd, have to do their best to cut them down. In my research, I concluded that the best place for my vises is where I want them, no one else. And I like the idea of the higher rail.
I made a work bench last year with the cross rail raised just to the right height to push my saw bench under and I have saved a lot of room in my small shop.
Nice bench you have Frank. You bring up a good point. I spent two months building a Scandinavian style quarter sawn red oak, Frank Klauz style (red oak used only because that's what wood I have for free). I have to use another bench for assembly because the Scandinavian is too small to use for putting anything large together on. The stretchers on mine are on the bottom so I can one day build a nice cabinet to fit underneath. I believe that all benches should have a cab underneath instead of a shelve. That's just me though. Thanks for posting.
I made a bench inspired by Frank's video on the 6x2 bench and have no regrets. Heavy and sturdy. And being softwood I have no fear of any potential dings on projects.
Your shelf idea reminds me of the Paulk workbench, i.e. having a horizontal surface, that is not your work surface, within easy reach. I think it makes a lot of sense.
2x6s are generally straighter than 2x4s also. I built my bench from 2x6s. Take the time to joint and plane also. Looks so much better and everything has stayed pretty straight
That's cool, man. I just finished my workbench and incorporated the same features. Modeled it after a Marovingian WB but raised the rail to put drawers in and so I can slide my saw bench underneath. Thinking about adding a plane tote and saw tote to each end.
Point well made regarding vice position. I often find I'm wishing for more space to the left of the vice position for tools and general dumping. I've got my vice in line with the leg, but may move it more centrally now.
Fantastic work and design, Frank! 😃 Something to think about are pull out trays. They could help to organize the most used tools, but you need to think very well where to put them, where they aren't going to be in the way. Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Every one has their preferences. Seeing how others do things is what gives us all ideas. For your work, the center vice works. I tend to cut material to length while clamped, and find it easier to cut straight if it is flat coming out of the vice, rather than angled up for clearance. The few extra dollars for 2x6 lumber is well worth it
Put the shelf on full length horizontal sliders. That way if you put the table up against a wall you can still use the full length of the shelf. Since the bottom rails are so thick just fully inset the cross beams for the sliders into the bottom rails for added support.
You make some excellent points. In spite of many "traditional" setups, I honestly think that the average woodworker made the bench work for him. I think the standardization of benches came from the industrialization of woodworking, not from individual need. Your vise is in a great place. Think about the leg vises on traditional workbenches, extremely useful, and not at the end of the bench. Also I think you'll love a shelf there along the top of your mid brace. My first bench was a pre-made (decent one), and it had a brace about 8 inches under the top. I slid a 1/2" piece of plywood on there, and it is soooo handy! especially on a more traditional work bench that lacks storage, it's just easier to have your current use tools in there, and I always keep a few hammers and my squares under there as well when I'm working. It's just easier to do that then run back and forth to where I store those things. I did keep all sides open not only for access, but to make it easier to clean (shavings drift down from the dog holes). I even added a small box at one corner to hold my pencils and marking blades. The bench should adapt to you, not you adapt to the bench!
Good stuff Frank. My bench has aprons and a railed shelf at 12". Do a shelf for planes if you think it'd work for you. I think I'd find it a bit congested/too tight. Vise placement? 100% agree - inside the leg. Softwood? Agree with everything + it dampens things when chopping on top. I've also got an end sharpening shelf but I added a curtain to stop my strops etc getting dusty. I'm thinking about narrow drawers somewhere for paper, stencils etc.
Looks cool. Glad it's working out for your so well. I am thinking of my next bench/es. Heading towards Roman style for a total change. I could have 3 benches in the same space of my current no1 bench.
I keep coming back to this video! Maybe instead of a shelf, consider a hanging tool tray much like the one many folks put at the back of the bench. Hanging so you could easily dump shavings and sawdust out, and a till instead of a shelf so everything stays up front and doesn't get pushed out of sight. Overall, I think your design is super. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Frank, I have the same build Idea in the works now. Basically a 8 inch shelf near the top of the bench specifically for my sharpening equipment which I keep on a plastic boot tray. Just slide it out and put on the bench to sharpen.... Mine will be 22 inches wide so narrower than your current one as well. I am thinking a mixture of hard maple and southern yellow pine... Thanks for the video.
The vise on the end clears space for the doghole section and allows you to clamp longer lengths. It shouldn't bother anyone if you choose to mount it more centered. I like it.
@@1steelcobra a wagon vise on the right is used to clamp longer pieces flat on top the bench. I have a bench craft wagon vise and it can also clamp a board upright in it, jammed against the beginning of the dog hole strip. It only can clamp a board no thicker than 1 3/4'' but it'll hold 8'' wide maybe? I'd have to check that. So you can hold a board on the right side and left side of these benches standing straight up as high as you can reach. And the center of the bench Is open real-estate. I like these styles better than the Roubo. A Rob Cossman style if you will
Frank please please PLEASE do a video if you decide to put a shelf under there. I need some inspiration. I’ve been racking my brain for a couple months since building my bench trying to come up with a good design (my bench is Rex Krueger’s knock down, so I want it to be a removable piece too). Love your videos man!
I like the shelf idea but i think a sliding one would be cooler and as far as the plane, put that iron where ever you want as it's YOUR TOOL!!! LOVE IT!!!
Ive been planning a new workbench build myself andd the shelf idea is something I've put some thought into doing just dont want it to become a black hole for the quick clean up and tools never going back to there home. My current second bench I built has no vise mistake on my part so I don't think it really matters where yours is 😂😂 you have it and you use the hell out of it.
Two points: First, vice on the end gets in the way in a small shop. I'm always jamming my hip bone trying to pass. Most people work on the long side of the bench anyway. Second is, if you need a shelf that doesn't collect dust and cuttings then look into installing wire closet shelving. It has one bent down long edge for stiffness but if you need more support get some 1/8 inch steel or aluminum channel for the other edge. I RTV it in place. I support my 6 footer with a hook on the underside of the bench top and a wire tied to the shelf in the middle. It won't support a ton but you will be surprised what you can put down there.
im in the vise on the end of a bench camp: 1.) for me its just because i like to place my rubbish bin under the area where i'm sawing to catch the sawdust, and 2.) lts because you can saw the whole cut in one go without moving the piece
Hey. It's your shop, your bench, your channel, your world. Do what you want. I personally use 2×6's in my benches if I have them on hand. Do what works for you, haters are gonna hate. Ever woodworker/hobbyist is set their shop up the way they want. By the way, the vise placement, from an engineering standpoint is inherently more stable, for type of "Frank's Bench" design. And far more stable than if you put the vise at the end of that table. I promise you, you'd hate the bench if you'd put the vise on the end for many reasons. Great job. Great video, from a new sub😎🤠🤓. Let's go build something.
My wife has a 42 inch Moxon vice in the middle of her workbench and she couldn't give a hoot what anyone says about it. She also a lower brace above the floor like you do, She'll tell anyone, it's my bench and I "ain't a changing" anything about the way I built it. I call that wife power lol.
It is your bench!!! And you have design it that will be most suitable to your working flow. I build my English joinery bench akso fron pine from 2x8 much better ( stable) than 2*4+the pine is flexible wood in comparison to hardwood so it will absorb a lot of mallet beating. as for the vise it's located exactly as my leg vice. And a shelf will be a great upgrade!! Good video!
Add the shelf. I put a beech plywood shelf under my Ulmia beech bench. It's more convenient to reach under to get dogs, holdfasts, mallets and larger chunky tools. No cabinet doors to open or drawers to pull out into my work space.
First of all, hurray to you for being brave enough to build something out of the "norm". I will celebrate ingenuity and creativity every time. Well, maybe not a creative bridge I have to drive over every day. But a workbench... absolutely! You've given me some ideas for my workbench build. Some differences are I just happen to have some solid holly for the top (urban tree salvage), and I will be using a leg vise and an end vise (or maybe a shoulder vise...still thinking that option through). My workbench will have bix box store lumber for the undercarriage, and that will be 2x6. Also thanks to you, I will raise the stretchers (If that will work with the leg vise; some design options are dicated by the leg vise hardware I have) up nearer the top. I think that's a great idea for stability and rigidity. Not to mention, that will help to support the sharpening station at the end of the bench and a probable shelf for hand planes along the length (as you mention). Thanks again Frank! I love these ideas. :)
Thanks Frank. Is that a new jointer? As for the shelf, I would definitely put one in. In fact, that was my first thought when I saw the high cross piece. I put a shelf in on my low to floor cross pieces. What I did was run some poplar front to back. On the underside of each piece, I just drilled some holes and glued in dowels that fit on the inside part of the cross pieces. Was quick and simple and I've been using it now for seven years that way. I keep my handplanes, sharpening stones, etc down there for now. Works very well. As for those that worry about the planes being sole down, I mean you use them that way to plane off wood. If that doesn't cause issues, why would storing them that way cause issues? My dad is a plane on the side mindset. We have debated it many times.
Yup, on it's side or sole down... it all depends on how you were taught. I e had that jointer for a couple years now luckily got it before prices went to the moon
Looks like a great bench, do what works for you! I prefer the shelf down low because I build a tool chest that sits on it for all my hand tools, and I use a leg vice. But otherwise we have nearly the same bench. Another tip is that 12/4 poplar can be quite cheap and is a great material to use instead of pine for a hardwood bench that is soft enough to dent. Been using my poplar bench for 5 years running now and no regrets.
I made two short bench modules that stack together... Has a shelf at the height of yours. Don't know what I'd have done without it. Lower module probably too low but i can change that. 👍
My bench is similar: Used 2x4 instead for the field of the top and 2x6 apron all around. Legs are moved into the corners, so my face and end vices are inside the legs too. The vices attach to the bottom of the 2x4 top after drilling holes thru the 2x6 apron. Legs are 3 - 2x6's built up with through mortise/tenon and wedged through the top. For stiffness, I used a very low positioned 2x6's all around but installed "3 high" drawer cabinet the width and depth of the bench leaving room for dogs and hold downs. The drawer cabinet is screwed into the legs providing stiffness and a clean storage area for planes, chisels, etc. The drawers for the tools have a tight seal and are lined with rust inhibiting liner and moisture absorbents. Same principle used by Gerstner Chests.
Interesting video. I believe it is not a hardwood/softwood issue, but a density issue. Hemlock fir is an extremely dense softwood. It is difficult to drive nails into it without having pilot holes. I am not sure about a raised shelf with a deep bench. My general workbench which I use for household projects has a wide top with a raised shelf. I find access to be difficult. I also find things get pushed to the back. It is like looking for a missing sock in the laundry. As for 2x6s, I think they are far underutilized. Being up in years, I remember when 2x4s were 2"x4" in size. By the time you joint and plane them, there is not much left. Tommy MacDonald several years ago showed his workbench and explained why he didn't use a conventional workbench. Like you, he opted for a larger work surface.
You missed the best feature of the high bench rail. Drill some dog holes in it (or make a hanging bench hook) to support sheet material vertically in the vice. The high rail is perfectly placed for that. That's what I thought you were going tp say when you went back
WERE GOING BACK IN!! great tip, hadn't thought of it when I made the video but you're 100% on that. Even a clamp on the rail will work in a pinch. Thanks man
Let the trolls be trolls. If they're ignored, they will find another victim. Unfortunately, they will not "die" if they're ignored ... I find the idea of having the vice more centered great!
I have never seen a vice placed at the end of a bench. People who get hot under the collar about such trivia need to get a life, whilst those of us who have their bench and their vice the way we want it will just get on and make stuff.
I totally agree on the position of the vise. I also have my vise about 20" from the end of the bench. Being left handed, I set tools down on the left side. So that's natural to me. Sure, I could have put on the right side but, it's just doesn't "feel " right to me. My bench pretty much goes against about every opinion on bench design.
Split the rail roughly in half. Put one low for a lower shelf and one higher up for a mid-shelf. If your worried about sweeping under the bench put a dress on the bottom to prevent stuff from getting under there, but you still want a push broom Hight or so. BTW do a search of sawmills and other such words in your area. You should be able to find several companies or individuals (craig list people) that sell at least air-dried wood. These suppliers are usually inexpensive and may be cheaper than construction lumber for hard woods. One company near me also sells 16/4 hard maple for $6.10 a bd ft. 4/4 is $3.90 there are a few farmers who farm the wood on their own land with their own lumber mill.
My shop started mainly around the table saw and the outfeed/work table. It’s the width of my table saw with 32” fence, and extends out from the saw to rip a full sheet of plywood, clears the blade but doesn’t tip/fall off. Maybe 44” almost square. After 10 years, I forget.. but I have a shelf,too, and guess where my 4, 4 1/2, 62, 5, 5 1/2, 6, 7, 36” wooden jointer planes all go? I do have a 1/4” lip that the back of the planes sit on but that’s because it’s possible I could have some grit occasionally that the blades might hit so I don’t just slid them. Sorry for the book. But your mentioning the shelf spurred me on. It’s where everything is done.
2x4's fly off the shelves, they are usually wet because they are in demand. 2x6's or 8's usually sit on the shelves longer and dry out. This is why I would also use 2x6's or greater.
And, 2x6s are generally in better condition, since the width is less likely to be cupped, bowed, warped, etc.; and, they are perhaps even drier than the pallets of 2x4s that folks in the trades buy in larger numbers. Like Frank, I build custom workbenches out of soft 2x6s w/ ply or MDF tops (even Melamine, depending upon intended use). Go to even a big box store (excluding Menards) & make a quick comparison of the condition of 2x6s compared to 2x4s. Only then tell me I’m wrong. 2x6s rule for sturdy workbenches.
Hey @FranksWorkbench ... I'm just curious ... Do you ever use hold fasts? As I think about it ... I don't think I've seen you use them. But I could be wrong. I'm only asking because I've heard ... they don't work well with a bench top that's too thick. Unless you "counter drill" them from the bottom to effectively make the bench top "thinner" where the holes are.
I have a much smaller bench, don't use my bigger one. I still milled all my wood from 2x6 even though I didnt keep the 5 1/2 thickness. The quality is just much better that I can pick and choose which side to trim off. Vise, to me, should always be inside of the leg for the simple reason of stability (I like my bench small and keep my tools on a cart). Having the rails on the bottoms is a night mare for clean up yes. Another advantage (to me the biggest) of softwood is how easy it is on your joint.
How about instead of a full shelf, just extending the width of the cross rails to turn it into a 6"-8" wide ledge. A small lip along the back edge of the ledge would discourage things from sliding/rolling off It would be wide enough to hold your planes and the like, yet the center would still be open so that shavings and sawdust don't gather where it would be tough to get to (a little like getting under a shelf on low cross rails). Besides with a relatively short distance between the shelf and the bottom of the worktop, it could be tough to reach stuff that is in the center of the shelf. If it requires a bit of contortion to reach something in the middle, this as sure as the sun rises in the east, your least used tools will migrate to the center of the shelf, where they will force you to remove everything on the shelf to clean off the shavings and dust, which you always mean to do, but never do. So eventually all of those oddball tools that you have for that one particular job will gradually disappear under a growing mound of shavings and sawdust that can't just be swept off because somewhere in that mound are some tools. 😁
I finished my workbench around three months ago and built it with high crossrails so I could roll a toolchest under it to the rear, and fit a sawbench under the front part. I didn't understand why nobody else did it this way as it is so convenient campared to a low shelf that just gets stuff dumped on it
I'm sure Franks bench is very stable. I have a doug fir bench built with the lower stretcher and it is super stable as well. No racking, heavy enough that it is hard too get it to move. My new benchtop will be 2x5 ish material, cut down from 2x12 stock. If you select boards with the pith running down the middle, you can rip the pith out which is highly reactive. With that gone you are working with quartersawn material ehich should be verrry stable.
As always nice build on the bench, not convinced about the rail position, you'll know better after a years use.. The vise? Put it where it works for you! I am right handed, I have mine mounted on the right side of the bench. The reason, when sawing the waste is to the dead space area of the bench and vice, it can drop to the small padded mat below and when sawing nothing blocks my saw from making horizontal full strokes. I don't have to cant my wood to cut it. My vise position isn't correct for all, but it is for me. Who cares where it is as long as we are doing the hobby we enjoy! BTW, the Wood Whisperer has his vise placed where you do, doubt many would say he's wrong. lol
@@FranksWorkbench That's pine, we grow plenty of that relativly locally. I think the problem is it's all from fairly young trees, 2x4's are considerably cheaper ($14). But you're right, a hardwood 2x6 is only like $5 more expensive
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Hi Frank. I like this video! Workbenches are very personal and they should be tailored to the preferences of the user, as you have demonstrated. I built my bench 44 years ago, and like you I made the top 30” wide. I’ve never regretted that choice. It’s perfect for me, as it should be. My front vise is also inside the leg. It’s never been a issue. Mine is decked in hard maple, as it is made from reclaimed bowling ally lumber. It was nearly 4” thick when I built it. I’ve reflattened the surface several times over the years and the bench is still nearly as thick as new. It doesn’t matter what other people think about your bench design. The only person it should matter to is the user, and you obviously have put a great deal of thought into yours. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Bob! Now that sounds like a bench that is nicely broken in!!
Haters're gonna hate, Frank. You just keep being awesome and making cool things.
Thanks man!
Haters... who has the time?
Why is it when a person disagrees with someone they're automatically branded a HATER?
Thanks for taking the time to share this Frank! I like your logic on placement of the vise, looking forward to seeing that video.
Thanks man!
Good point regarding the placement of the vise. I’m just starting my bench and I think I am going to consider placing my vise in the center. It makes sense. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and keep up the good work.
My old man (pro carpenter) put a shelf under his bench 60yrs ago, I'm still using it today, couldn’t imagine not having it...and he put his vice on the end : )
Great demo and some awesome customisation. Your videos always give us plenty to think of.
When you showed the shelves at the end of the bench I immediately thought of putting those shelves on runners. Could even fit a large shallow drawer. That would make it easier to access more items, cut down the dust and make even better use of that space.
The low cross member on the bench you mention at the beginning of the video helps by allowing you to brace yourself with your foot when planning or performing some other function. That’s why they exist.
You’ve become one of my favorite channels man. Ignore anybody that gets that mad over your preferences. You’re doing all the right things, and building precise approachable projects. One day, I’ve got to learn the secret to how you tune your hand planes. I’ve never seen one pushed across the face of a board with so little effort, and I’ve watched hours of Chris Schwartz material (also consider myself pretty good at sharpening/tuning)
Thanks man I appreciate it!!
I concur
Stoked you have a sponsor. You deserve it
Thanks buddy!
I never put my planes on the side either. Love the shelf. Big fan.
I had amazing woodworking teachers between my father and school… And I love learning new things! You make it easy, so thank you man!
That was really good.
There is no one right way and this is a very elegant and functional way.
Nice design, I like the higher position of the stretchers. One other thing you could do, is add a shelf on top of the stretchers, maybe glued and screwed sheet of plywood, or MDF, and maybe even another sheet on the bottom of the stretchers, then you have a main shelf on top, but you can also slide long items into the space between the stretchers to store lumber, or even just to add some extra weight to your bench if you want it. The layer of plywood on top and bottom effectively adds some extra depth and stiffness to the stretchers, turning them into a box beam. I personally prefer having the vice at the very end, so when I'm doing a cross cut on a large board held in my vice, i can keep the board level and saw plumb and no risk of accidentally cutting into my bench top when you get to that point which you demonstrate at 3:25. There's no need to cross your arms over either, just hold the larger piece in the vice, cut on the left side of the vice, and catch the off cut with your left hand before it falls on the floor!
Came across your channel and just had to subscribe. Your vise placement actually makes more sense based on your bench design - I.e leg placement. Having the vise all the way to the left introduces less overall support since you are outside the leg. Now, I’m off to check out your other vids!
I really like you approach to woodworking. It’s very practical and informative. Can’t get enough of your videos 👍
Thank you!
I made my workbench 8’x32” with 5” casters. The top overhangs the base on both ends by 16” and has a shelf directly above the wheels to store tools and buckets. It will have cabinets shortly, but they aren’t built yet. I didn’t want to have to move my tools to wheel it outside. The bench matched the height of my table saw, so it works as a portable outfeed table
Sweeeet! That's things a beast! Love it
Do you prefer your current laminated workbench as opposed to the thin Nicholson? I am considering making my 4x8 plywood top assembly table/workbench have a Nicholson top to ensure flatness.
I prefer it, but it's a lot more work obviously. I like the Nicholson on a lot for a bench that can be made quickly and easily
@@FranksWorkbench thank you. Thanks also for your videos. I enjoy every single one of them.
Thanks Frank., great video. I am working on ideas fr my first big bench build, and have seen the haters. We call it the “tall poppy syndrome”. Some people, when they see someone being innovative and potentially going to stand out in the crowd, have to do their best to cut them down.
In my research, I concluded that the best place for my vises is where I want them, no one else. And I like the idea of the higher rail.
I made a work bench last year with the cross rail raised just to the right height to push my saw bench under and I have saved a lot of room in my small shop.
Nice bench you have Frank. You bring up a good point. I spent two months building a Scandinavian style quarter sawn red oak, Frank Klauz style (red oak used only because that's what wood I have for free). I have to use another bench for assembly because the Scandinavian is too small to use for putting anything large together on. The stretchers on mine are on the bottom so I can one day build a nice cabinet to fit underneath. I believe that all benches should have a cab underneath instead of a shelve. That's just me though. Thanks for posting.
Another great video about an essential part of any workshop! Super tutorial with well thought out reasoning about design/execution. 👍
I made a bench inspired by Frank's video on the 6x2 bench and have no regrets. Heavy and sturdy. And being softwood I have no fear of any potential dings on projects.
Glad it's worked well for you! This is my favorite that I've used too. Simple and effective
I like your idea for placing the vise inside the leg.
Your shelf idea reminds me of the Paulk workbench, i.e. having a horizontal surface, that is not your work surface, within easy reach. I think it makes a lot of sense.
2x6s are generally straighter than 2x4s also. I built my bench from 2x6s. Take the time to joint and plane also. Looks so much better and everything has stayed pretty straight
Where is the video of the actual build for this table, I would enjoy watching it.
That's cool, man. I just finished my workbench and incorporated the same features. Modeled it after a Marovingian WB but raised the rail to put drawers in and so I can slide my saw bench underneath. Thinking about adding a plane tote and saw tote to each end.
Awesome man! It's always fun setting up the bench
Every bench is custom to the user. Yours is cool.
you break things down fairly simply for me as a fresh beginner! Keep up the good work!
Just found your channel, really enjoying it!
Very cool Frank! I love this.
I built mine with a high shelf. Basically by accident. I didn’t plan it to be as convenient as it turned out to be but I love it. Would do it again
Point well made regarding vice position. I often find I'm wishing for more space to the left of the vice position for tools and general dumping. I've got my vice in line with the leg, but may move it more centrally now.
Fantastic work and design, Frank! 😃
Something to think about are pull out trays. They could help to organize the most used tools, but you need to think very well where to put them, where they aren't going to be in the way.
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Nice idea, thanks man
Every one has their preferences. Seeing how others do things is what gives us all ideas. For your work, the center vice works. I tend to cut material to length while clamped, and find it easier to cut straight if it is flat coming out of the vice, rather than angled up for clearance. The few extra dollars for 2x6 lumber is well worth it
Good video man. Crazy people get so mad over someone else’s preferences.
Video idea. Pros and cons of your different benches
Thanks man!
Put the shelf on full length horizontal sliders. That way if you put the table up against a wall you can still use the full length of the shelf. Since the bottom rails are so thick just fully inset the cross beams for the sliders into the bottom rails for added support.
You make some excellent points. In spite of many "traditional" setups, I honestly think that the average woodworker made the bench work for him. I think the standardization of benches came from the industrialization of woodworking, not from individual need. Your vise is in a great place. Think about the leg vises on traditional workbenches, extremely useful, and not at the end of the bench.
Also I think you'll love a shelf there along the top of your mid brace. My first bench was a pre-made (decent one), and it had a brace about 8 inches under the top. I slid a 1/2" piece of plywood on there, and it is soooo handy! especially on a more traditional work bench that lacks storage, it's just easier to have your current use tools in there, and I always keep a few hammers and my squares under there as well when I'm working. It's just easier to do that then run back and forth to where I store those things. I did keep all sides open not only for access, but to make it easier to clean (shavings drift down from the dog holes). I even added a small box at one corner to hold my pencils and marking blades. The bench should adapt to you, not you adapt to the bench!
I think …that …thinking out of the box is a …vice of intelligence! Love the idea. Might try it !
The workbench itch is real! Such an overbuild for the average newbie..but fun to watch
Good stuff Frank.
My bench has aprons and a railed shelf at 12". Do a shelf for planes if you think it'd work for you. I think I'd find it a bit congested/too tight.
Vise placement? 100% agree - inside the leg.
Softwood? Agree with everything + it dampens things when chopping on top.
I've also got an end sharpening shelf but I added a curtain to stop my strops etc getting dusty. I'm thinking about narrow drawers somewhere for paper, stencils etc.
Looks cool. Glad it's working out for your so well. I am thinking of my next bench/es. Heading towards Roman style for a total change. I could have 3 benches in the same space of my current no1 bench.
It's fun to have a change of pace once in a while!
I have a wide bench too!! This is my second woodworking tool bench and width is better than length 👍🏾
Another good video Frank! Keep it up!
I keep coming back to this video! Maybe instead of a shelf, consider a hanging tool tray much like the one many folks put at the back of the bench. Hanging so you could easily dump shavings and sawdust out, and a till instead of a shelf so everything stays up front and doesn't get pushed out of sight. Overall, I think your design is super. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Frank, I have the same build Idea in the works now. Basically a 8 inch shelf near the top of the bench specifically for my sharpening equipment which I keep on a plastic boot tray. Just slide it out and put on the bench to sharpen.... Mine will be 22 inches wide so narrower than your current one as well. I am thinking a mixture of hard maple and southern yellow pine... Thanks for the video.
The vise on the end clears space for the doghole section and allows you to clamp longer lengths. It shouldn't bother anyone if you choose to mount it more centered. I like it.
Doghole clamping longer pieces is what a tail vise is for anyways.
@@1steelcobra a wagon vise on the right is used to clamp longer pieces flat on top the bench. I have a bench craft wagon vise and it can also clamp a board upright in it, jammed against the beginning of the dog hole strip. It only can clamp a board no thicker than 1 3/4'' but it'll hold 8'' wide maybe? I'd have to check that. So you can hold a board on the right side and left side of these benches standing straight up as high as you can reach. And the center of the bench Is open real-estate. I like these styles better than the Roubo. A Rob Cossman style if you will
Frank please please PLEASE do a video if you decide to put a shelf under there. I need some inspiration. I’ve been racking my brain for a couple months since building my bench trying to come up with a good design (my bench is Rex Krueger’s knock down, so I want it to be a removable piece too). Love your videos man!
Will do thanks man!
I like the shelf idea but i think a sliding one would be cooler and as far as the plane, put that iron where ever you want as it's YOUR TOOL!!! LOVE IT!!!
I agree with the location of you vice. I did the same with mine, as Frank explained, having work space on both sides gives so much flexibility.
Ive been planning a new workbench build myself andd the shelf idea is something I've put some thought into doing just dont want it to become a black hole for the quick clean up and tools never going back to there home. My current second bench I built has no vise mistake on my part so I don't think it really matters where yours is 😂😂 you have it and you use the hell out of it.
The vise makes a huge difference, where it is placed matters so much less than just having one at all!!
Vice location that’s the great thing about making your own bench put the vice where you want it 👍👍
It's your bench & if you are happy that's all that counts. Nice bench
Great stuff! Just found you with this video and already subscribed.
Right on man!!
I like the shelf idea.
Workbenches made to be fit your need 😅 that's it , thanks for sharing.
Exactly!
Two points: First, vice on the end gets in the way in a small shop. I'm always jamming my hip bone trying to pass. Most people work on the long side of the bench anyway. Second is, if you need a shelf that doesn't collect dust and cuttings then look into installing wire closet shelving. It has one bent down long edge for stiffness but if you need more support get some 1/8 inch steel or aluminum channel for the other edge. I RTV it in place. I support my 6 footer with a hook on the underside of the bench top and a wire tied to the shelf in the middle. It won't support a ton but you will be surprised what you can put down there.
im in the vise on the end of a bench camp:
1.) for me its just because i like to place my rubbish bin under the area where i'm sawing to catch the sawdust,
and
2.) lts because you can saw the whole cut in one go without moving the piece
Hey. It's your shop, your bench, your channel, your world. Do what you want. I personally use 2×6's in my benches if I have them on hand. Do what works for you, haters are gonna hate. Ever woodworker/hobbyist is set their shop up the way they want. By the way, the vise placement, from an engineering standpoint is inherently more stable, for type of "Frank's Bench" design. And far more stable than if you put the vise at the end of that table. I promise you, you'd hate the bench if you'd put the vise on the end for many reasons. Great job. Great video, from a new sub😎🤠🤓. Let's go build something.
I wish you always good luck and success Bro ❤️🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Thanks man appreciate it
My wife has a 42 inch Moxon vice in the middle of her workbench and she couldn't give a hoot what anyone says about it. She also a lower brace above the floor like you do, She'll tell anyone, it's my bench and I "ain't a changing" anything about the way I built it. I call that wife power lol.
It is your bench!!! And you have design it that will be most suitable to your working flow. I build my English joinery bench akso fron pine from 2x8 much better ( stable) than 2*4+the pine is flexible wood in comparison to hardwood so it will absorb a lot of mallet beating. as for the vise it's located exactly as my leg vice. And a shelf will be a great upgrade!! Good video!
Thank you!!
Add the shelf. I put a beech plywood shelf under my Ulmia beech bench. It's more convenient to reach under to get dogs, holdfasts, mallets and larger chunky tools. No cabinet doors to open or drawers to pull out into my work space.
First of all, hurray to you for being brave enough to build something out of the "norm". I will celebrate ingenuity and creativity every time. Well, maybe not a creative bridge I have to drive over every day. But a workbench... absolutely! You've given me some ideas for my workbench build. Some differences are I just happen to have some solid holly for the top (urban tree salvage), and I will be using a leg vise and an end vise (or maybe a shoulder vise...still thinking that option through). My workbench will have bix box store lumber for the undercarriage, and that will be 2x6. Also thanks to you, I will raise the stretchers (If that will work with the leg vise; some design options are dicated by the leg vise hardware I have) up nearer the top. I think that's a great idea for stability and rigidity. Not to mention, that will help to support the sharpening station at the end of the bench and a probable shelf for hand planes along the length (as you mention). Thanks again Frank! I love these ideas. :)
Thanks Frank. Is that a new jointer? As for the shelf, I would definitely put one in. In fact, that was my first thought when I saw the high cross piece. I put a shelf in on my low to floor cross pieces. What I did was run some poplar front to back. On the underside of each piece, I just drilled some holes and glued in dowels that fit on the inside part of the cross pieces. Was quick and simple and I've been using it now for seven years that way. I keep my handplanes, sharpening stones, etc down there for now. Works very well. As for those that worry about the planes being sole down, I mean you use them that way to plane off wood. If that doesn't cause issues, why would storing them that way cause issues? My dad is a plane on the side mindset. We have debated it many times.
Yup, on it's side or sole down... it all depends on how you were taught. I e had that jointer for a couple years now luckily got it before prices went to the moon
Looks like a great bench, do what works for you! I prefer the shelf down low because I build a tool chest that sits on it for all my hand tools, and I use a leg vice. But otherwise we have nearly the same bench. Another tip is that 12/4 poplar can be quite cheap and is a great material to use instead of pine for a hardwood bench that is soft enough to dent. Been using my poplar bench for 5 years running now and no regrets.
Nice and good idea!
I have my tool box and planing on putting drawers in
Nice bench. Mine is smaller but so is my “shop”. Two things I wish I had done, use yellow pine instead of sfp, use 2x6’s.
I made two short bench modules that stack together... Has a shelf at the height of yours. Don't know what I'd have done without it. Lower module probably too low but i can change that. 👍
Just for reference, here (europe) the asking price for pine in similar dimensions to a 3x6 ~10ft is equivalent to ~32-38 dollars per piece.
Ok, really smart setup.
I like the under bench storage, which is why I used a modified Ron Paulk style bench top.
Will have to look into that, thanks man!
@Frank's Workbench Paulk benches are usually made with plywood but it was more the under bench storage I find useful and convenient.
Yep. My cross rail is around the same position as yours for exactly the same reasons.. And mine is built from 2X6 Pine as well.
Nice!
My vice is in the same place - it's great. Paul Sellers has his vices about there too.
My bench is similar: Used 2x4 instead for the field of the top and 2x6 apron all around. Legs are moved into the corners, so my face and end vices are inside the legs too. The vices attach to the bottom of the 2x4 top after drilling holes thru the 2x6 apron. Legs are 3 - 2x6's built up with through mortise/tenon and wedged through the top. For stiffness, I used a very low positioned 2x6's all around but installed "3 high" drawer cabinet the width and depth of the bench leaving room for dogs and hold downs. The drawer cabinet is screwed into the legs providing stiffness and a clean storage area for planes, chisels, etc. The drawers for the tools have a tight seal and are lined with rust inhibiting liner and moisture absorbents. Same principle used by Gerstner Chests.
Nice dude! Nothin like a homemade workbench!
Interesting video. I believe it is not a hardwood/softwood issue, but a density issue. Hemlock fir is an extremely dense softwood. It is difficult to drive nails into it without having pilot holes.
I am not sure about a raised shelf with a deep bench. My general workbench which I use for household projects has a wide top with a raised shelf. I find access to be difficult. I also find things get pushed to the back. It is like looking for a missing sock in the laundry.
As for 2x6s, I think they are far underutilized. Being up in years, I remember when 2x4s were 2"x4" in size. By the time you joint and plane them, there is not much left.
Tommy MacDonald several years ago showed his workbench and explained why he didn't use a conventional workbench. Like you, he opted for a larger work surface.
I like the 2by 6s makes it much more solid
You missed the best feature of the high bench rail. Drill some dog holes in it (or make a hanging bench hook) to support sheet material vertically in the vice. The high rail is perfectly placed for that. That's what I thought you were going tp say when you went back
WERE GOING BACK IN!! great tip, hadn't thought of it when I made the video but you're 100% on that. Even a clamp on the rail will work in a pinch. Thanks man
Agreed. I did this, high rail with dog holes. It's great. I hang the iron dogs on the rail.
My shelf will be at yours level i agree. And that sheld will be able to slide in and out.
Let the trolls be trolls. If they're ignored, they will find another victim. Unfortunately, they will not "die" if they're ignored ...
I find the idea of having the vice more centered great!
I have never seen a vice placed at the end of a bench. People who get hot under the collar about such trivia need to get a life, whilst those of us who have their bench and their vice the way we want it will just get on and make stuff.
A shelf under the bench top would be a 'really cool ' place for more shavings and sawdust to collect if you don't have a door covering it.
As I say….not your workbench, not your problem! Solid bench brother.
,:)
Mine has a high cross rail on the front, but the sides and back are laminated plywood sheet. 50mm thick.
I totally agree on the position of the vise. I also have my vise about 20" from the end of the bench. Being left handed, I set tools down on the left side. So that's natural to me. Sure, I could have put on the right side but, it's just doesn't "feel " right to me. My bench pretty much goes against about every opinion on bench design.
Split the rail roughly in half. Put one low for a lower shelf and one higher up for a mid-shelf.
If your worried about sweeping under the bench put a dress on the bottom to prevent stuff from getting under there, but you still want a push broom Hight or so.
BTW do a search of sawmills and other such words in your area. You should be able to find several companies or individuals (craig list people) that sell at least air-dried wood. These suppliers are usually inexpensive and may be cheaper than construction lumber for hard woods. One company near me also sells 16/4 hard maple for $6.10 a bd ft. 4/4 is $3.90
there are a few farmers who farm the wood on their own land with their own lumber mill.
My shop started mainly around the table saw and the outfeed/work table. It’s the width of my table saw with 32” fence, and extends out from the saw to rip a full sheet of plywood, clears the blade but doesn’t tip/fall off. Maybe 44” almost square. After 10 years, I forget.. but I have a shelf,too, and guess where my 4, 4 1/2, 62, 5, 5 1/2, 6, 7, 36” wooden jointer planes all go? I do have a 1/4” lip that the back of the planes sit on but that’s because it’s possible I could have some grit occasionally that the blades might hit so I don’t just slid them. Sorry for the book. But your mentioning the shelf spurred me on. It’s where everything is done.
Sounds like a good set-up!
2x4's fly off the shelves, they are usually wet because they are in demand. 2x6's or 8's usually sit on the shelves longer and dry out. This is why I would also use 2x6's or greater.
And, 2x6s are generally in better condition, since the width is less likely to be cupped, bowed, warped, etc.; and, they are perhaps even drier than the pallets of 2x4s that folks in the trades buy in larger numbers. Like Frank, I build custom workbenches out of soft 2x6s w/ ply or MDF tops (even Melamine, depending upon intended use). Go to even a big box store (excluding Menards) & make a quick comparison of the condition of 2x6s compared to 2x4s. Only then tell me I’m wrong. 2x6s rule for sturdy workbenches.
Hey @FranksWorkbench ... I'm just curious ... Do you ever use hold fasts? As I think about it ... I don't think I've seen you use them. But I could be wrong. I'm only asking because I've heard ... they don't work well with a bench top that's too thick. Unless you "counter drill" them from the bottom to effectively make the bench top "thinner" where the holes are.
I have a much smaller bench, don't use my bigger one. I still milled all my wood from 2x6 even though I didnt keep the 5 1/2 thickness. The quality is just much better that I can pick and choose which side to trim off. Vise, to me, should always be inside of the leg for the simple reason of stability (I like my bench small and keep my tools on a cart). Having the rails on the bottoms is a night mare for clean up yes. Another advantage (to me the biggest) of softwood is how easy it is on your joint.
How about instead of a full shelf, just extending the width of the cross rails to turn it into a 6"-8" wide ledge. A small lip along the back edge of the ledge would discourage things from sliding/rolling off It would be wide enough to hold your planes and the like, yet the center would still be open so that shavings and sawdust don't gather where it would be tough to get to (a little like getting under a shelf on low cross rails). Besides with a relatively short distance between the shelf and the bottom of the worktop, it could be tough to reach stuff that is in the center of the shelf. If it requires a bit of contortion to reach something in the middle, this as sure as the sun rises in the east, your least used tools will migrate to the center of the shelf, where they will force you to remove everything on the shelf to clean off the shavings and dust, which you always mean to do, but never do. So eventually all of those oddball tools that you have for that one particular job will gradually disappear under a growing mound of shavings and sawdust that can't just be swept off because somewhere in that mound are some tools. 😁
Cool your sponsor. Different than other ones.
sold im making one
I finished my workbench around three months ago and built it with high crossrails so I could roll a toolchest under it to the rear, and fit a sawbench under the front part. I didn't understand why nobody else did it this way as it is so convenient campared to a low shelf that just gets stuff dumped on it
agreed!
You're doing great tbh, does the stretcher higher position also gives more stability when planning ?
I'm sure Franks bench is very stable. I have a doug fir bench built with the lower stretcher and it is super stable as well. No racking, heavy enough that it is hard too get it to move.
My new benchtop will be 2x5 ish material, cut down from 2x12 stock. If you select boards with the pith running down the middle, you can rip the pith out which is highly reactive. With that gone you are working with quartersawn material ehich should be verrry stable.
It's stable for sure! but I'm not sure that it being higher really helps at all with stability
Great idea Jim!
The woodworkers are just beginning to appreciate the joinery of Japanese woodworking.
As always nice build on the bench, not convinced about the rail position, you'll know better after a years use.. The vise? Put it where it works for you! I am right handed, I have mine mounted on the right side of the bench. The reason, when sawing the waste is to the dead space area of the bench and vice, it can drop to the small padded mat below and when sawing nothing blocks my saw from making horizontal full strokes. I don't have to cant my wood to cut it. My vise position isn't correct for all, but it is for me. Who cares where it is as long as we are doing the hobby we enjoy! BTW, the Wood Whisperer has his vise placed where you do, doubt many would say he's wrong. lol
interesting! I've sawn into my bench many a time! lol
All I can say is I wish we had a home depot here - that's a $37 lump of timber in australia...
One 2x6 cost 37? Wow!! Maybe a hardwood bench of some local species would make more sense?
@@FranksWorkbench That's pine, we grow plenty of that relativly locally. I think the problem is it's all from fairly young trees, 2x4's are considerably cheaper ($14). But you're right, a hardwood 2x6 is only like $5 more expensive