I've got Growtacs on my touring bike and my fat bike, and I love them. I ditched my Yokozuna hydro-mechanicals for them. They're strong and easy to set up and adjust, but like you said, you do need to read the directions. I also lost the little plug for the pad adjuster hole on one brake, but fortunately it's tapped for an M4 bolt! I replaced the plugs with bolts on all 4 calipers. It does mean you need another tool to get at the pad adjusters, but so far that hasn't caused any problems.
Interesting. I thought I was the only one underwhelmed by Yokozuna/Juin tech brakes. I have both 2 piston and 4 piston on different bikes and, for the money, I am disappointed with both. So you like the growtacs more? I might need to make a change.
I'm also running juin on my road logic and well not great. Was planning to change pads to galfer or get these growtac..... I've got klampers on my outback ❤, but aesthetically a bit bulky for the road logic in my opinion 😊
@@andrewhamilton3486Ritchey fan. Me too. I’ve got the 4 piston GT’s on my ascent. They only just fit due to the adjustment wheel on the back. This video has convinced me to swap them out for the growtac’s.
I have TRP Spyre disc brakes 160mm .... came with organic brake pads and they were terrible... almost went Hyd brakes because of those pads....when I changed to "Cycle1st" semi metallic brake pads it was a night and day difference.... stops on a dime with 9 cents left over... more than happy with them now and bonus with the weight savings...
@@fastbladeproductions7961 I have the spyke, it took some pad and rotor experiments to get them right. The trp pads were sweet in the wet, but terrible when dry. Just weird.
They definitely look premium and go perfectly with your super dialed in Ritchey Outback. Another amazing review. I don’t have any experience with mechanical disk brakes but they have come a long way from the Avid mechanical brakes from years ago. Hydro brake calipers with cable lines seem to be the happy medium.
Mmmm nope, last year some guys in the neighborhood tested in our city a couple of cable actuated 2-piston hydros and most of them overheated with worse braking distance. For 1/2 price of those growtac you can buy shimano MT500s with rotors - yep, 4-piston, and they actually stop you fast in rainy day anywhere in the city or in the mountain
Been using the juin tech f1 for 2 seasons on my winter bike now. Have no complaints and would buy again if they failed. They have been very easy to setup and forget.
I got the 2 listoni version, front is good, the rear J's definitely weak. I've been thinking about upgrading to their new 6 piston version...or atleast their 4 piston version
Juin Tech mechanicals with Kevlar fiber EBC pads are the strongest combination I have experienced in the cable actuated category . You must use compressionless woven style sheathing like that used for BMX detangler systems .
Hey Nolan, at the end of this video you mention "cable stretch". I've always wondered about what is actually happening when people refer to "cable stretch". I'm no engineer, just a humble bike mechanic, but from my basic understanding of steel it seems unlikely that a steel cable could "stretch" enough to account for the amount of slack that's created right after installing new cables and housing or the slackening over time. I've always assumed that the slackening over time was caused by other parts in the system like the housing compressing or the ferrules being pressed on all the way under the force of braking. I was hoping as an engineer you could shed some light on what was actually going on when folks talk about "cable stretch". Many thanks, love the channel, keep up the good work!
Good question. I often change brake and shift cables on bikes with well established housing / ferrules and the cables definitely stretch out. For years, I’ve always pre-stretched take and shift cables, which almost eliminates the stretch, but not all. Since the housing / ferrules are existing, it seems to isolate the inner cable itself as the culprit
I'm just an ignorant speculating on the Internet. Is it possible that the stretching occurs because cables are braided rather than a solid wire? It is not hard to imagine that there may be a little bit of space between the threads that form the cable. As the cable undergoes tension the space between the threads may shrink and thus the cable would elongate. Just idle speculation on my part.
Great review! I just purchased an aluminum Topstone with SORA, because I like the simplicity of cable actuated brakes. Growtacs are a serious consideration. High-quality mechanical brakes are grossly underrated, IMO, and so is compressionless housing. Want to "wake up" mechanical brakes? Try compressionless housing. The levers, housing, cables and calipers are a system. The housing is the weak link.
I would like to see you review the TRP Spyke dual piston and TRP Spyre dual piston. They're a lot cheaper. I have them both on my MTB and Gravel bikes. No issues.
+1 on a review of the TRP Spyke. I have some and I'd like to see how these compare with other fancy brakes. I could say that they require more force than Shimano Hydrolic brakes. I switched to 180mm on the front and now it feels better and lighter. I live in the Alps ! Also, I find it so weird that many cycling RUclipsrs say that Mechanical Disk Brake is garbage.
@@christophericcio I rode 700 km through the alps with the Trp Hy/rd's no problems whatsover, you do need a little more power in your hands tho compared to fully hydraulic. I was running them, like in the video, with compressionless housing cables. Would buy the Hyrds again anytime but the Equals also look really nice
I have had both the Spyres and the Growtacs for many miles on the same bike with same housing. The Growtacs are soooo much better. Price is a consideration, but good brakes are one place I don't mind spending a bit extra for improved safety
I'm rather intrigued by cable disks. Seems like if you can get really good ones like this, it's the best of both, light weight, lots of power and simplicity.
Thank you for your great review,i run trp spyre and happy with them,but always was aware other mechanical disc systems ,but now i have the knowledge of your review,i know what path to take, fine work again Nolan
My favorite endurance bike came with Tektro mechanicals and I love everything about the bike except for the brakes. I’m not ready to change out the whole drivetrain yet, so I think I’ll give these a try. Thanks for the review. I’m enjoying your channel and your style of presenting information.
I installed the least expensive single piston mechanical tektros, 280's, with tektro bar end levers, and I'm so far quite pleased, they do what they're supposed to. I replaced Shimano hydraulics with them, that had weeping pistons and barely worked, due to winter riding. So as I say it's better to have mechs that work, instead of hydros that don't :)
I used Paul Klampers and then Growtac Equal on the same bike. Much prefer the Growtac Equal. It's lighter and feels like the top end power is higher, with no downsides I can tell. I did not lose any of the plugs.
i've never noticed any difference between mech discs. barely notice hydro being better even. I spend lots of time setting up my brakes.. even my Cantilever 96 Rocky Mountain Cardiac will drop anchor and stop you. only question I have is how much cable pull? 15mm? 11mm? not that I'd ever buy these.
Precisely! Are those road short pull or mtb long pull ones?! That's an uber critical detail because miss matching levers and brakes can make all the difference...😁 By the looks of it, and the target audience - i'd risk a guess that it's short pull 🙃
@@the_nondrive_side Why? Physics wise, cable pull is just a translation of motion. It's the length of the brake lever that matters. All this, of course, is provided that the cable is not worn and elastic. All long pull brakes do is give more freedom in setting up the pad clearance and, especially for V-brakes, gives tyre-, fender-, and mud clearance. If you want to use mechanical disc brakes with road levers, you need short pull anyway. And I guess that's the deciding factor?
@@SimonHBS because I don't ride drop bars.. all short pull discs are by this junk. The concept of road and mtb specific stuff is dumb. But like $20 gets you a caliper that works... what's this nonsense cost
But not sure if mentioned, great thing about Paul's is that you can minimize that "bend" to the rotor if you probably set up the non actuated side pad correctly to almost zero bending as it can be adjusted to act as a wall; rather than leaving a large gap there leaving room for bending 👍
Thanks , hadn't heard of these brakes before , I have my touring bike set up with mechanical brakes ( who needs hydraulic problems in the middle of nowhere) so all I do is carry a spare inner cable , weights nothing takes up no room , I went with the scram bb7 I am extremely happy with the power and modulation , actually just as powerful as my hydraulic MTB set up or nearly so could not imagine needing more and at a substantial amount less price wise than the clampers and grotacs , but I do like their look so I will give them a go as soon as the misses isn't looking
I think these are a great choice for your retro Ritchey where you are trying to blend an aesthetic not possible with hydros. I’ve said it before, but that build is stunning and appears to work as good as it looks. I just took delivery of a Corvid MAP. At the suggestion of the builder, the brakes are the other end of the spectrum for a drop bar. Force AXS hoods, 4 piston Guides, and 180s. I honestly never thought I’d need or want that much brake on a drop bar bike but after a few rides I’m sold. I’m also fussy about my brakes, with the same preferences as you, and this combo is the Sauce. The whole bike is equally bananas. Great video as always.Happy new year.
I mean you can get a pair of hybrid-mechanic juintech f1's for half that price and they have insane good braking performance, are super easy to set up and i haven't had any issues over the 6500km i had them on my bike. Would highly recommend those.
Would be interesting to see how the internals of the mechanicals of the brakes work. Is it a rotating screw, a cam, or how does it work. Seems that it must be a pretty simple mechanism, which leads to the thought, why then would one type of mechanical caliper be better than another?
Not liking the look of hydraulic levers. Or a luxury travel bike maybe. I bought a MTB with hydraulics n good service history. Still suddenly had oil and no brake on my rear. Someone' might prefer the maintenance of a mechanical when on the go. Rim is fine too I think but then you got frame limitations, don't want to ruin carbon rims and may want to fit wider tyres or need better performance in the wet.
A lot of comments about Growtacs being the same price as Hydros here. So I'll share this: I own a set myself, and my partner decided to go SRAM AXS Force D2 group. I lost count of the times I had to stop mid-ride and flip my partner's bike upside down to reset the pistons on the hydro brakes. I've yet to have an issue with the Growtacs and haven't had to stop mid-ride to readjust the pads. I also use several different wheelsets, and having to readjust the brake callipers between wheels was a pain back when I was using Hydro. With the Growtacs, I can do this with a simple Allen key. You can also adjust mech pads without taking the wheel off. With hydros, you have to do the Hail Mary every time you reset the pistons; if it rubs, you have to take the wheel off again to reset.
I've never had those issues with hydro brakes except once. I also have a touring bike with juin tech f1. They have been flawless and the price is not too bad.
@@jeffandersen6233 Yeah big fan of rim brakes, but tire clearance was always an issue and and canti brakes are a pain to adjust. On a road bike/ endurance road sure. Rim brake all the way!
Can't speak to the SRAM road brakes specifically but I have had both SRAM and Shimano brakes on a lot of bikes over the years and have not had these issues. What you're describing with swapping wheels can be fixed by shimming the brake rotor on one of the wheelsets, I do the same thing with my Salsa bike and GRX hydros. I do agree though that mechanicals are less likely to 'self adjust' if you will after initial setup. Once you've go the settings dialed in they are perfect. That is until the rotor gets bent :)
Looking forward to getting my hands on some of these. I wonder how rebuildable they are. I also hope people really do read the directions, because the setup of the cam vis a vis the leverage function is super important to be done stepwise.
I use Paul Klampers on two of my bikes. They work better than any of the other’s (Avid BB7 and TRP spyres) that I have tried. However, I recently changed from using 11 speed Ultegra levers to Dia Compe non-aero brake levers and was surprised how much better they have become. Would love to try the growtacs, but can’t justify as have two sets of Klampers!
All they have to do is use a cam style pivot, like modern Shimano hydraulic brakes, the first part of the levee pull gives greater pad movement which means less brake rub as the pads can be further away from the rotor, then as the pads make contact you have the 'slower' part of the cam which gives much greater leverage/force and better modulation.
Great review, thanks! It would be great to hear more about your academic work! btw: consider getting a pair of plastic screws to replace the flimsy pad adjustment cover with ;)
So just curious, outside of bike backing out into nowhere where repairability with minimal tools could be a benefit, why would you want to run mechanical disk brakes? It would seem to be a very limiting system, especially on drop bars where fewer and fewer brifter are available in mechanical brakes.
wow... sure would be curious what one actually requires to stop a bike. its like RC car stuff, pricey hop ups... I guess as an old bmx rider I dont use "element" and "nuance" when tuning my old heap. sweet ride. Brake dyno huh... I squeeze the lever(s) fer my research data! I thoroughly enjoyed this review man! I gotta get into this scene. I subbed and thumbed! Cheers from Santa Cruz
Single sided pullikg calipers are not meant to be set up with the rotor centered. The rotor should be set as close to the fixed pad as possible to avoid any rotor flex. This is because you can feel the flex and it doesnt result in a firm feeling lever
Caliper should be adjusted as close as possible to the moving pad and the fixed pad should be adjusted as close as possible to the rotor where it doesn’t have to travel far to contact the fixed pad.
I've had a problem with my rear caliper freezing och locking up during cold weather. It could be condensation in the brake housing, since it does angle downward from the caliper. Has anyone else experienced this problem? For reference, I live in southern Sweden where it's cold but not super cold, say -5/-10C.
Are these compatible with the cable pull of Campagnolo ergo levers? I've got a nice Athena 11 speed groupset that I'd like to migrate to a frameset designed for disc brakes.
They don’t slip at all likely due to the shallow thread pitch. However, like all mechanical discs, you do have to keep tabs of adjustment in general as pads wear down
I'm glad there's another high end mech brake available than the hilariously overpriced Klampers. However, even these are 3x the cost of the tried and true BB7s. Is the performance really 3x better? I use the BB7s on my e-bike and they have been perfect for what I am looking for. Yes there could be improvement to the brake feel, especially the rear, but I just don't buy that these could have the same or better lever feel (bitepoint and power) as a reputable hydraulic brake. These Growtacs are marginally more expensive than a set of Shimano SLX hydraulics which are what I consider 'reputable'. It's hard to compare brakes on drop bars with the whole brifter thing so I am talking flat bar for ease of comparison.
Low end bikes use the cheapest mechanical brakes out there. High end bikes skip mechanical brakes entirely to hydraulics. So naturally there's not much demand for high end mech brakes, so manufacturers don't produce as much. It's a niche product for those who really prefer mech brakes or have time to swap out their stock calipers. So it's not cheap. Honestly, this might be still worth it for those who want to adjust and maintain brakes during long tours without access to mineral oil and tools.
Thanks for sharing. My self I have an Outback breakaway and looking for a nice brake. I had the spyre slc which didn’t convince me a lot. A friend of mine suggested to try shimano rs305. Have you tried them? After buying these growtrac are staying with it or returning to hydraulic? I am torn between growtrac (if the rs305 don’t work well) and hydraulics and buy hydraulic housing splitter . Enjoy your ride
I'd also like your view on whether they are better or even comparable to decent hydraulic brakes such as Magura which are pretty similar in action as you've described yourself liking (I'm like minded to be clear).
Do you find a big difference in pad wear rates on the moving vs non-moving sides? It’s probably more of an academic question than practical. But, if there was a big difference I guess a little extra economy could be had by cycling through new pads one at time.
TRP SPYRE SLC 145g and dual piston. For as low as €82. I demand. Head 2 head. Cos these were used for cyclo-cross racing for ages, I cannot see how these have better braking performance.
I wonder if I can run these through a gyro for the dirt jumper? 🤔 They certainly seem cooler than the Spyke/Spyre I'm considering using. Oh wait, single sided pull is straight ass. You either have a ton of pull/gap or they rub, or both. I've never seen a mechanic that can set them up worth a damn. And having warped rotors after a few months is also a drag. Guess I'm sticking with the TRPs on the play bike, (And hydros for mtb/gravel/road.) 😒 Appreciate the review. Seeing you endo almost makes me want to believe in mechanicals again. (But I'm always disappointed by them.)
Hi! thx for that video. can you desribe in a short way how strong the braking power compared to the trp spyre is? With the braking power of the trp spyre I was not very happy... :-(
@@TheBikeSauce I see.. how about your thoughts on the growtac vs hydraulics? I can't decide whether to upgrade to a growtac or hydraulics from my existing spyres. Please help.
oil cant freeze. ;) Never looking back to any cable brake. Shimano brakes need almost no service at all, even when you are riding 10000mls a year. You only have to change pads...
The set screw critique is a problem of the tool not the brake I would say. Get yourself some PB Swiss Tools allen keys. They also come color coded, but with powder coating. The sleeve type ones from wera are the worst invention. It is not uncommon in any industrial application to have set screw deep in a hole. And any standard allen key, other than wera, will do the job fine to turn these screws^^
I think you'd like them even more if you set up the fixed pad to be closer to the rotor rather than centreing the pads around the rotor as with brakes that have both pistons move. Most people seem to set up these single arm pads incorrectly and then complain about squishing. The fixed pad is intended to be moved in throughout the pads' life to keep it close to the rotor
Why on earth would you spend that much on these mechanical brakes?, and comparing the pricing to the WAY OTT price of Paul Clampers does little to convince me. You can get top hydraulic sets with levers for that, you can get a complete group set for not much more. Niche and overpriced, for the 'more-money-than-sense' cyclists out there.
uh. Single piston is bad. how about doing a side by side comparison with trp spyke or spyre? the video clip of the rear caliper in action shows an incorrectly adjusted brake. IF single piston have a hope in hell of working you have to remember the pad moving is the hammer, the stationary pad is the anvil. you set it so the hammer travels the smallest distance before it hits the anvil. I'm assuming there is a right pad screw, with no tension on move the caliper over so it just clears the left pad. now screw in the right pad so it just clears. put on some tension and Giddyup!(well more like Woah!)
On principle, I'd never pay that much for a brake with a fixed pad. Add $100 to the price if necessary but I'll take Spyres over these if these really only rival Pauls that also have fixed pads
@Luchopapa16 I'm happy with my Spyres. I have over 50k miles on them...lots of descending here in the rockies in Utah. Of course, everything can be better but I don't want brakes with a fixed pad.
@Luchopapa16 can't try everything as a regular person not in the industry anymore. I've definitely tried Paul's though. The thing about brakes like this is that they wear one pad crooked and are more likely to cause a warped rotor if you have very long descents.
The cable ferrules at the ends do compress in slightly, it's just a figure of speech, same thing as 'chain stretch' which we know is from the rollers wearing out.
Entirely too expensive really. You can get entire ltwoo hydro groups for that price. I personally would never spend that coin when you could do something else really.
Getting the BB7s on my city/touring bike to work properly is a full-time job, so I often think it’s only a matter of time before I spring for these. But then I adjust the BB7s well enough to continue deferring, especially since I already have a gravel bike with 105 hydros for when I want more performance-oriented actuation. Maybe the next time I build a steel frame up from scratch I’ll go with these. Thanks for the useful review!
I love your content, there's a bit of no nonsense approach to things and in the same time a good level of thoroughness in your analysis and comparisons and you always go for componentry that many of us, all over the world, would be much more susceptible to use than what you'd see on those GCN wannabee channels. So thank you for having our back ! Had never heard of those but now I'm intrigued, very intrigued. That price point ain't to steep for such an important safety feature.
Switched from XT hydros to these after a caliper developed a leak at the piston and have not looked back at all. They are a breeze to set up, and no bleeding or hunting for leaks when something goes wrong. I don't feel like I am giving up much at all and the ease of maintenance and reduced noise are welcome changes. Makes internally routed stuff so much easier as well. They are MUCH better than most previous cable discs that I have tried (spyres, BB7) and lighter/slimmer but just as good as the Klampers. Was thinking of going back to rim brakes on all my bikes but these have changed my mind.
Nice review! love that these exist. Don't get me wrong the Klampers (ive only ridden post mount) look and perform great but you really can't beat that price point. I want these on my next bike.
Even the ISS uses 6061 for some components (the pressure hull is made from something different), the same material which is used for 90 % of the aluminium frames today. If somebody states "military grade aluminium" or "space grade aluminium" you know he just wants to justify an overpriced premium price tag. The choice of aluminium sorts is typically not made because of costs, but depending on if you have to weld it (a lot of sorts cannot be welded) or if it's just something milled out of a block of metal
Really helpful video! I just received my Growtac brakes, and will be installing them on an All City Cosmic Stallion grx. I am having trouble deciding just where to have the flexy housing meet the stiff housing F&R . I have Campy Chorus 12 speed levers. Could you advise. Thanks, love your channel, Dave
what is the nature of the mechanical leverage that makes these better. for whatever reason my understanding of at least mechanical brakes, leverage is purely relative the length of lever.
On a heavily loaded tandem the heat generated by the brakes risk overheating the hydraulic fluid leaving you without brakes. Not something I want to experience going down a steep hill.
The obvious problem with these is that even basic hydro disc brakes will slap them. Only difficulty is finding levers for drop bars. Hydro discs fail over time, not suddenly. Reports of snagged hoses are oversold and the likelihood of both of your brakes failing at the same time is negligible. I spent one week with a bike that had "decent" mechanicals (bb7s?) and while they were perfectly strong, they had a horrible lever action and i probably spent more time at the side of the road adjusting them than i did actually riding. People stuck on mechanical discs are curmudgeons at this point. Quality rim brake or hydros, no in between.
I certainly see the use of these on gravel/road-style bikes or handlebars. Hydraulic brakes are tied to the latest and greatest groupsets with those bikes. But I really don’t see the point of expensive ass mech brakes on a mountain bike. You can get cheaper hydros on an mtb setup.
I've got Growtacs on my touring bike and my fat bike, and I love them. I ditched my Yokozuna hydro-mechanicals for them. They're strong and easy to set up and adjust, but like you said, you do need to read the directions. I also lost the little plug for the pad adjuster hole on one brake, but fortunately it's tapped for an M4 bolt! I replaced the plugs with bolts on all 4 calipers. It does mean you need another tool to get at the pad adjusters, but so far that hasn't caused any problems.
I have also done this on mine but with an M4 Grub screw!
Oh nice, didn’t realize.
Interesting. I thought I was the only one underwhelmed by Yokozuna/Juin tech brakes. I have both 2 piston and 4 piston on different bikes and, for the money, I am disappointed with both. So you like the growtacs more? I might need to make a change.
I'm also running juin on my road logic and well not great. Was planning to change pads to galfer or get these growtac..... I've got klampers on my outback ❤, but aesthetically a bit bulky for the road logic in my opinion 😊
@@andrewhamilton3486Ritchey fan. Me too. I’ve got the 4 piston GT’s on my ascent. They only just fit due to the adjustment wheel on the back. This video has convinced me to swap them out for the growtac’s.
I believe quality mechanicals are so underrated. Nice to see quality stuff are still out there.
I have TRP Spyre disc brakes 160mm .... came with organic brake pads and they were terrible... almost went Hyd brakes because of those pads....when I changed to "Cycle1st" semi metallic brake pads it was a night and day difference.... stops on a dime with 9 cents left over... more than happy with them now and bonus with the weight savings...
@@fastbladeproductions7961 I have the spyke, it took some pad and rotor experiments to get them right. The trp pads were sweet in the wet, but terrible when dry. Just weird.
They definitely look premium and go perfectly with your super dialed in Ritchey Outback. Another amazing review. I don’t have any experience with mechanical disk brakes but they have come a long way from the Avid mechanical brakes from years ago. Hydro brake calipers with cable lines seem to be the happy medium.
Mmmm nope, last year some guys in the neighborhood tested in our city a couple of cable actuated 2-piston hydros and most of them overheated with worse braking distance. For 1/2 price of those growtac you can buy shimano MT500s with rotors - yep, 4-piston, and they actually stop you fast in rainy day anywhere in the city or in the mountain
For cable actuated disc brakes, I love my Juin Tech Gt-F . Of course they hydraulic at the calipers.
Been using the juin tech f1 for 2 seasons on my winter bike now. Have no complaints and would buy again if they failed. They have been very easy to setup and forget.
I got the 2 listoni version, front is good, the rear J's definitely weak.
I've been thinking about upgrading to their new 6 piston version...or atleast their 4 piston version
we have Paul components to thank for these, and competition is great for consumers. exciting
Terrific review Nolan! Glad you're enjoying the brakes. Sick bike, too btw!
Surprisingly little RUclips coverage on them so I figured I’d add my $0.02 😀
Juin Tech mechanicals with Kevlar fiber EBC pads are the strongest combination I have experienced in the cable actuated category . You must use compressionless woven style sheathing like that used for BMX detangler systems .
The tensile strength of duralumin is higher than aluminum, although its resistance to corrosion is poor. I wouldn't want to use it in the winter.
Valid point for those cycling in the northern hemisphere.
Right, bc of the copper. I haven’t heard any stories of any growtacs corroding though. The percentage of copper in the alloy may be sufficiently small
@@TheBikeSauce yep ---> general recipe for Duralumin is 4%
When you say, "the ride feel is just dandy," you became my favorite bike vlogger. Good video again. Please keep it up.
😆🙏
Hey Nolan, at the end of this video you mention "cable stretch". I've always wondered about what is actually happening when people refer to "cable stretch". I'm no engineer, just a humble bike mechanic, but from my basic understanding of steel it seems unlikely that a steel cable could "stretch" enough to account for the amount of slack that's created right after installing new cables and housing or the slackening over time. I've always assumed that the slackening over time was caused by other parts in the system like the housing compressing or the ferrules being pressed on all the way under the force of braking. I was hoping as an engineer you could shed some light on what was actually going on when folks talk about "cable stretch". Many thanks, love the channel, keep up the good work!
Good question. I often change brake and shift cables on bikes with well established housing / ferrules and the cables definitely stretch out. For years, I’ve always pre-stretched take and shift cables, which almost eliminates the stretch, but not all.
Since the housing / ferrules are existing, it seems to isolate the inner cable itself as the culprit
I'm just an ignorant speculating on the Internet. Is it possible that the stretching occurs because cables are braided rather than a solid wire? It is not hard to imagine that there may be a little bit of space between the threads that form the cable. As the cable undergoes tension the space between the threads may shrink and thus the cable would elongate. Just idle speculation on my part.
Not ignorant at all. I’d bet money you’re spot on
Yup, correct. Cables don’t stretch... ferrules seat and housing compresses. I am a 30+ bike mechanic btw 🤘🤓🤘
But how do you explain having to pre stretch a replacement inner cable in an existing housing setup?
Great review! I just purchased an aluminum Topstone with SORA, because I like the simplicity of cable actuated brakes. Growtacs are a serious consideration. High-quality mechanical brakes are grossly underrated, IMO, and so is compressionless housing. Want to "wake up" mechanical brakes? Try compressionless housing. The levers, housing, cables and calipers are a system. The housing is the weak link.
I would like to see you review the TRP Spyke dual piston and TRP Spyre dual piston. They're a lot cheaper. I have them both on my MTB and Gravel bikes. No issues.
Yes or compared to the TRP Hy/RD which I also like and are good brakes in my opinion
Both of yall read my mind because I see the Spyres and Hy/Rds as their main competition, aside from the Klampers.
+1 on a review of the TRP Spyke. I have some and I'd like to see how these compare with other fancy brakes.
I could say that they require more force than Shimano Hydrolic brakes. I switched to 180mm on the front and now it feels better and lighter. I live in the Alps !
Also, I find it so weird that many cycling RUclipsrs say that Mechanical Disk Brake is garbage.
@@christophericcio I rode 700 km through the alps with the Trp Hy/rd's no problems whatsover, you do need a little more power in your hands tho compared to fully hydraulic. I was running them, like in the video, with compressionless housing cables. Would buy the Hyrds again anytime but the Equals also look really nice
I have had both the Spyres and the Growtacs for many miles on the same bike with same housing. The Growtacs are soooo much better. Price is a consideration, but good brakes are one place I don't mind spending a bit extra for improved safety
I'm rather intrigued by cable disks. Seems like if you can get really good ones like this, it's the best of both, light weight, lots of power and simplicity.
Thank you for your great review,i run trp spyre and happy with them,but always was aware other mechanical disc systems ,but now i have the knowledge of your review,i know what path to take, fine work again Nolan
Punctuation works like this: word-comma-space-word. You can't just scatter commas all around.
This might be the best mechanical brake ever made.
My favorite endurance bike came with Tektro mechanicals and I love everything about the bike except for the brakes. I’m not ready to change out the whole drivetrain yet, so I think I’ll give these a try. Thanks for the review. I’m enjoying your channel and your style of presenting information.
I installed the least expensive single piston mechanical tektros, 280's, with tektro bar end levers, and I'm so far quite pleased, they do what they're supposed to.
I replaced Shimano hydraulics with them, that had weeping pistons and barely worked, due to winter riding. So as I say it's better to have mechs that work, instead of hydros that don't :)
I used Paul Klampers and then Growtac Equal on the same bike. Much prefer the Growtac Equal. It's lighter and feels like the top end power is higher, with no downsides I can tell. I did not lose any of the plugs.
i've never noticed any difference between mech discs. barely notice hydro being better even. I spend lots of time setting up my brakes.. even my Cantilever 96 Rocky Mountain Cardiac will drop anchor and stop you.
only question I have is how much cable pull? 15mm? 11mm? not that I'd ever buy these.
Precisely! Are those road short pull or mtb long pull ones?! That's an uber critical detail because miss matching levers and brakes can make all the difference...😁
By the looks of it, and the target audience - i'd risk a guess that it's short pull 🙃
They are short pull. Just checked Growtac's site 😊
then they are garbage@@SimonHBS
@@the_nondrive_side Why? Physics wise, cable pull is just a translation of motion. It's the length of the brake lever that matters. All this, of course, is provided that the cable is not worn and elastic. All long pull brakes do is give more freedom in setting up the pad clearance and, especially for V-brakes, gives tyre-, fender-, and mud clearance.
If you want to use mechanical disc brakes with road levers, you need short pull anyway. And I guess that's the deciding factor?
@@SimonHBS because I don't ride drop bars.. all short pull discs are by this junk. The concept of road and mtb specific stuff is dumb. But like $20 gets you a caliper that works... what's this nonsense cost
But not sure if mentioned, great thing about Paul's is that you can minimize that "bend" to the rotor if you probably set up the non actuated side pad correctly to almost zero bending as it can be adjusted to act as a wall; rather than leaving a large gap there leaving room for bending 👍
Thanks , hadn't heard of these brakes before , I have my touring bike set up with mechanical brakes ( who needs hydraulic problems in the middle of nowhere) so all I do is carry a spare inner cable , weights nothing takes up no room , I went with the scram bb7 I am extremely happy with the power and modulation , actually just as powerful as my hydraulic MTB set up or nearly so could not imagine needing more and at a substantial amount less price wise than the clampers and grotacs , but I do like their look so I will give them a go as soon as the misses isn't looking
I think these are a great choice for your retro Ritchey where you are trying to blend an aesthetic not possible with hydros. I’ve said it before, but that build is stunning and appears to work as good as it looks.
I just took delivery of a Corvid MAP. At the suggestion of the builder, the brakes are the other end of the spectrum for a drop bar. Force AXS hoods, 4 piston Guides, and 180s. I honestly never thought I’d need or want that much brake on a drop bar bike but after a few rides I’m sold. I’m also fussy about my brakes, with the same preferences as you, and this combo is the Sauce. The whole bike is equally bananas.
Great video as always.Happy new year.
Ritcheys are,nt retro.
@@briandewey5401 seems like a steel bike gum hoods is generally retro
I mean you can get a pair of hybrid-mechanic juintech f1's for half that price and they have insane good braking performance, are super easy to set up and i haven't had any issues over the 6500km i had them on my bike. Would highly recommend those.
Would be interesting to see how the internals of the mechanicals of the brakes work. Is it a rotating screw, a cam, or how does it work. Seems that it must be a pretty simple mechanism, which leads to the thought, why then would one type of mechanical caliper be better than another?
What is the use case for this? It seems to me at this price might as well move to hydraulic.
Not liking the look of hydraulic levers. Or a luxury travel bike maybe. I bought a MTB with hydraulics n good service history. Still suddenly had oil and no brake on my rear. Someone' might prefer the maintenance of a mechanical when on the go. Rim is fine too I think but then you got frame limitations, don't want to ruin carbon rims and may want to fit wider tyres or need better performance in the wet.
A lot of comments about Growtacs being the same price as Hydros here. So I'll share this: I own a set myself, and my partner decided to go SRAM AXS Force D2 group. I lost count of the times I had to stop mid-ride and flip my partner's bike upside down to reset the pistons on the hydro brakes. I've yet to have an issue with the Growtacs and haven't had to stop mid-ride to readjust the pads. I also use several different wheelsets, and having to readjust the brake callipers between wheels was a pain back when I was using Hydro. With the Growtacs, I can do this with a simple Allen key. You can also adjust mech pads without taking the wheel off. With hydros, you have to do the Hail Mary every time you reset the pistons; if it rubs, you have to take the wheel off again to reset.
I've never had those issues with hydro brakes except once. I also have a touring bike with juin tech f1. They have been flawless and the price is not too bad.
Never had to do that with any rim brake I've ever used. But as Russ would say, it's not an apples to apples comparison.
@@jeffandersen6233 Yeah big fan of rim brakes, but tire clearance was always an issue and and canti brakes are a pain to adjust. On a road bike/ endurance road sure. Rim brake all the way!
Can't speak to the SRAM road brakes specifically but I have had both SRAM and Shimano brakes on a lot of bikes over the years and have not had these issues. What you're describing with swapping wheels can be fixed by shimming the brake rotor on one of the wheelsets, I do the same thing with my Salsa bike and GRX hydros. I do agree though that mechanicals are less likely to 'self adjust' if you will after initial setup. Once you've go the settings dialed in they are perfect. That is until the rotor gets bent :)
Looking forward to getting my hands on some of these. I wonder how rebuildable they are. I also hope people really do read the directions, because the setup of the cam vis a vis the leverage function is super important to be done stepwise.
I use Paul Klampers on two of my bikes. They work better than any of the other’s (Avid BB7 and TRP spyres) that I have tried. However, I recently changed from using 11 speed Ultegra levers to Dia Compe non-aero brake levers and was surprised how much better they have become. Would love to try the growtacs, but can’t justify as have two sets of Klampers!
All they have to do is use a cam style pivot, like modern Shimano hydraulic brakes, the first part of the levee pull gives greater pad movement which means less brake rub as the pads can be further away from the rotor, then as the pads make contact you have the 'slower' part of the cam which gives much greater leverage/force and better modulation.
Great video. Do you know how they would work with Campy 12 speed levers ?
Great review, thanks! It would be great to hear more about your academic work!
btw: consider getting a pair of plastic screws to replace the flimsy pad adjustment cover with ;)
So just curious, outside of bike backing out into nowhere where repairability with minimal tools could be a benefit, why would you want to run mechanical disk brakes? It would seem to be a very limiting system, especially on drop bars where fewer and fewer brifter are available in mechanical brakes.
You can use those black rubber covers you put in the steerer bolts to cover the Pad dialer-thingy . if its too big,, maybe a little hack will fix it.
I have the gold anodized growtacs on my VO Passhunter. Love them. 🧡
😍
wow... sure would be curious what one actually requires to stop a bike. its like RC car stuff, pricey hop ups... I guess as an old bmx rider I dont use "element" and "nuance" when tuning my old heap. sweet ride. Brake dyno huh... I squeeze the lever(s) fer my research data! I thoroughly enjoyed this review man! I gotta get into this scene. I subbed and thumbed! Cheers from Santa Cruz
Single sided pullikg calipers are not meant to be set up with the rotor centered. The rotor should be set as close to the fixed pad as possible to avoid any rotor flex. This is because you can feel the flex and it doesnt result in a firm feeling lever
Caliper should be adjusted as close as possible to the moving pad and the fixed pad should be adjusted as close as possible to the rotor where it doesn’t have to travel far to contact the fixed pad.
@_dmart what will flex the rotor. The idea is to keep rotor from moving
I've had a problem with my rear caliper freezing och locking up during cold weather. It could be condensation in the brake housing, since it does angle downward from the caliper. Has anyone else experienced this problem? For reference, I live in southern Sweden where it's cold but not super cold, say -5/-10C.
The hole that the rubber plugs fill are threaded. Forgot the bolt size, could be an M2 or M3
Are these compatible with the cable pull of Campagnolo ergo levers? I've got a nice Athena 11 speed groupset that I'd like to migrate to a frameset designed for disc brakes.
The brakes are short pull (ca 7mm), so they should be compatible with any road brake lever :)
@@SimonHBS Thank you. Good to know!
Given the non-indexed pad adjusters have you experienced the pads slipping ? (Which was very annoying with TRP Spykes) Thanks
They don’t slip at all likely due to the shallow thread pitch. However, like all mechanical discs, you do have to keep tabs of adjustment in general as pads wear down
I'm glad there's another high end mech brake available than the hilariously overpriced Klampers. However, even these are 3x the cost of the tried and true BB7s. Is the performance really 3x better? I use the BB7s on my e-bike and they have been perfect for what I am looking for. Yes there could be improvement to the brake feel, especially the rear, but I just don't buy that these could have the same or better lever feel (bitepoint and power) as a reputable hydraulic brake. These Growtacs are marginally more expensive than a set of Shimano SLX hydraulics which are what I consider 'reputable'. It's hard to compare brakes on drop bars with the whole brifter thing so I am talking flat bar for ease of comparison.
Thanks for the super clear review! Can the flat-mount version also be used with MTB (long-pull) levers because the brake-leverage can be adjusted?
How do they compare to the Ole' Trusty BB7?
I don’t understand why these are so expensive when with the same money you can get a good set of hydraulic brakes and calipers with hoses.
Economy of scale
@@ShredST please explain
Low end bikes use the cheapest mechanical brakes out there. High end bikes skip mechanical brakes entirely to hydraulics. So naturally there's not much demand for high end mech brakes, so manufacturers don't produce as much. It's a niche product for those who really prefer mech brakes or have time to swap out their stock calipers. So it's not cheap.
Honestly, this might be still worth it for those who want to adjust and maintain brakes during long tours without access to mineral oil and tools.
How does this compare to the TRP hy/ra
So they work with both long-pull levers and road bike levers out of the box? 👍🏻
Thanks for sharing. My self I have an Outback breakaway and looking for a nice brake. I had the spyre slc which didn’t convince me a lot. A friend of mine suggested to try shimano rs305. Have you tried them? After buying these growtrac are staying with it or returning to hydraulic? I am torn between growtrac (if the rs305 don’t work well) and hydraulics and buy hydraulic housing splitter .
Enjoy your ride
I would be particularly interested to see how they perform in heavy duty mountain biking like Enduro rather than just trail use.
I'd also like your view on whether they are better or even comparable to decent hydraulic brakes such as Magura which are pretty similar in action as you've described yourself liking (I'm like minded to be clear).
If you lose the ajuster plug, or a bleed port plug, hot glue works well. If you have a glue gun.
Do you find a big difference in pad wear rates on the moving vs non-moving sides? It’s probably more of an academic question than practical. But, if there was a big difference I guess a little extra economy could be had by cycling through new pads one at time.
can I used that brake on mountain bike?
TRP SPYRE SLC 145g and dual piston. For as low as €82. I demand. Head 2 head. Cos these were used for cyclo-cross racing for ages, I cannot see how these have better braking performance.
Why would someone use this over hydraulic brakes?
As i watched this and that part about footprint going up (3:15) my TRP Spyres, double-actuated mechanical yet slim brakes had a chuckle 🙃
I love my Yokozuna Hybris calipers.
I wonder if I can run these through a gyro for the dirt jumper? 🤔 They certainly seem cooler than the Spyke/Spyre I'm considering using. Oh wait, single sided pull is straight ass. You either have a ton of pull/gap or they rub, or both. I've never seen a mechanic that can set them up worth a damn. And having warped rotors after a few months is also a drag. Guess I'm sticking with the TRPs on the play bike, (And hydros for mtb/gravel/road.) 😒
Appreciate the review. Seeing you endo almost makes me want to believe in mechanicals again. (But I'm always disappointed by them.)
Hi! thx for that video. can you desribe in a short way how strong the braking power compared to the trp spyre is? With the braking power of the trp spyre I was not very happy... :-(
Sooooo much stronger than spyre
@@TheBikeSaucethank you!
Would this be usable on a Downhill mountain bike ? And as rear brake on a moded surron ?
HAHAHAHA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Compared to TRP Spyer?
No comparison in my opinion. I went from Spyres directly to Equals. The Growtacs are noticeably better brakes in Stopping power and modulation.
@@props651 I assume its like that, its a different price tier but for the price Spyers seems excellent
Ditto what he said. No comparison - night and day.@@props651
@@props651I had the same experience going from Spyres to the Growtacs and share the same opinion - there’s no comparison
How are the growtac equals compared to trp spyres? Is it worth upgrading from trp to growtac for use on a road bike?
No comparison. Way better than Spyres; in a different category in performance and price.
@@TheBikeSauce I see.. how about your thoughts on the growtac vs hydraulics? I can't decide whether to upgrade to a growtac or hydraulics from my existing spyres. Please help.
Pretty comparable. Hydros still have a bit more modulation, but the growtacs are dead simple to install and maintain
@@TheBikeSauce thank you very much
oil cant freeze. ;) Never looking back to any cable brake. Shimano brakes need almost no service at all, even when you are riding 10000mls a year. You only have to change pads...
How compare to Spyre?
No comparison
So much more expensive than Avid BB7's without a significant difference in braking power.
The set screw critique is a problem of the tool not the brake I would say. Get yourself some PB Swiss Tools allen keys. They also come color coded, but with powder coating. The sleeve type ones from wera are the worst invention. It is not uncommon in any industrial application to have set screw deep in a hole. And any standard allen key, other than wera, will do the job fine to turn these screws^^
I was sold on the weras, but I’m not so sure now. I’ve had pw Swiss ones in my cart for weeks now. Probably time to pull the trigger 😆
I think you'd like them even more if you set up the fixed pad to be closer to the rotor rather than centreing the pads around the rotor as with brakes that have both pistons move. Most people seem to set up these single arm pads incorrectly and then complain about squishing. The fixed pad is intended to be moved in throughout the pads' life to keep it close to the rotor
Good call
Trp with semi pad, thanks
Have you tried the TRP HY/RD's?
I have. Decent, but these and the klampers are on a different level
@@TheBikeSauce Good the hear. Thanks for the review.
oh dang they're kind of pricey haha
😊
400 for mechanical calipers.. just no... When you can get full groupset for less...
All using your rear brake does is wear your rear tire out faster!!
Why on earth would you spend that much on these mechanical brakes?, and comparing the pricing to the WAY OTT price of Paul Clampers does little to convince me.
You can get top hydraulic sets with levers for that, you can get a complete group set for not much more.
Niche and overpriced, for the 'more-money-than-sense' cyclists out there.
Too expensive. Go hydraulics instead lols
You buy them once forever pretty much. Best option if you swap handlebars to drop bars you dont have to bleed it
trp spyre flat mount or tektro c550 will give equal braking power will way less price tag
uh.
Single piston is bad. how about doing a side by side comparison with trp spyke or spyre?
the video clip of the rear caliper in action shows an incorrectly adjusted brake.
IF single piston have a hope in hell of working you have to remember the pad moving is the hammer, the stationary pad is the anvil. you set it so the hammer travels the smallest distance before it hits the anvil.
I'm assuming there is a right pad screw, with no tension on move the caliper over so it just clears the left pad.
now screw in the right pad so it just clears.
put on some tension and Giddyup!(well more like Woah!)
Ridiculous pricing !!
No thanks!
I'm not a hipster 😅
Greetings from Croatia 😎
On principle, I'd never pay that much for a brake with a fixed pad. Add $100 to the price if necessary but I'll take Spyres over these if these really only rival Pauls that also have fixed pads
Spyres are so much worse than the Equals. I have many thousands of miles of experience on both btw
@Luchopapa16 I'm happy with my Spyres. I have over 50k miles on them...lots of descending here in the rockies in Utah. Of course, everything can be better but I don't want brakes with a fixed pad.
@@veganpotterthevegan Glad they work for you, but you don’t know what you’re missing til you try them. Cheers
@Luchopapa16 can't try everything as a regular person not in the industry anymore. I've definitely tried Paul's though. The thing about brakes like this is that they wear one pad crooked and are more likely to cause a warped rotor if you have very long descents.
Cables do not stretch over time.
The cable ferrules at the ends do compress in slightly, it's just a figure of speech, same thing as 'chain stretch' which we know is from the rollers wearing out.
@@matthewshultz8762 bingo
Entirely too expensive really. You can get entire ltwoo hydro groups for that price. I personally would never spend that coin when you could do something else really.
Getting the BB7s on my city/touring bike to work properly is a full-time job, so I often think it’s only a matter of time before I spring for these. But then I adjust the BB7s well enough to continue deferring, especially since I already have a gravel bike with 105 hydros for when I want more performance-oriented actuation. Maybe the next time I build a steel frame up from scratch I’ll go with these. Thanks for the useful review!
you're doing something wrong. i've made four minor adjustments in a year to mine and they're on one of my mountain bikes
I love your content, there's a bit of no nonsense approach to things and in the same time a good level of thoroughness in your analysis and comparisons and you always go for componentry that many of us, all over the world, would be much more susceptible to use than what you'd see on those GCN wannabee channels. So thank you for having our back !
Had never heard of those but now I'm intrigued, very intrigued. That price point ain't to steep for such an important safety feature.
🙏🙏🙏
Switched from XT hydros to these after a caliper developed a leak at the piston and have not looked back at all. They are a breeze to set up, and no bleeding or hunting for leaks when something goes wrong. I don't feel like I am giving up much at all and the ease of maintenance and reduced noise are welcome changes. Makes internally routed stuff so much easier as well. They are MUCH better than most previous cable discs that I have tried (spyres, BB7) and lighter/slimmer but just as good as the Klampers. Was thinking of going back to rim brakes on all my bikes but these have changed my mind.
So are you confirming you’ve used these on an mtb? What style of riding?
Are you missing Russ from Path Less Pedaled?
Nice review! love that these exist. Don't get me wrong the Klampers (ive only ridden post mount) look and perform great but you really can't beat that price point. I want these on my next bike.
Wow outer space aluminum. My mind is fucking blown. Where can we get this rare earth material?
Even the ISS uses 6061 for some components (the pressure hull is made from something different), the same material which is used for 90 % of the aluminium frames today.
If somebody states "military grade aluminium" or "space grade aluminium" you know he just wants to justify an overpriced premium price tag. The choice of aluminium sorts is typically not made because of costs, but depending on if you have to weld it (a lot of sorts cannot be welded) or if it's just something milled out of a block of metal
Really helpful video!
I just received my Growtac brakes, and will be installing them on an All City Cosmic Stallion grx. I am having trouble deciding just where to have the flexy housing meet the stiff housing F&R . I have Campy Chorus 12 speed levers.
Could you advise.
Thanks, love your channel,
Dave
$400? I'm about to put brakes on my Honda Civic for half that. What is going on???
😆 yea these are a premium product. The analog is putting some 6 piston Brembos on your civic. Would be slightly more than $400
why would you need this.... thing, when you can buy a complete hydraulic set for the same money? some people sure do love making things complicated
what is the nature of the mechanical leverage that makes these better. for whatever reason my understanding of at least mechanical brakes, leverage is purely relative the length of lever.
I still fail to see the point of mechanical disc brakes vs hydraulic.
I've never had to bleed a cable system.
for long travel in adventure,
On a heavily loaded tandem the heat generated by the brakes risk overheating the hydraulic fluid leaving you without brakes. Not something I want to experience going down a steep hill.
Why buy expensive, over-engineered mechanical disc brakes when you can buy much cheaper, way better performing hydraulic dis brakes?
The obvious problem with these is that even basic hydro disc brakes will slap them. Only difficulty is finding levers for drop bars.
Hydro discs fail over time, not suddenly. Reports of snagged hoses are oversold and the likelihood of both of your brakes failing at the same time is negligible. I spent one week with a bike that had "decent" mechanicals (bb7s?) and while they were perfectly strong, they had a horrible lever action and i probably spent more time at the side of the road adjusting them than i did actually riding.
People stuck on mechanical discs are curmudgeons at this point. Quality rim brake or hydros, no in between.
I certainly see the use of these on gravel/road-style bikes or handlebars. Hydraulic brakes are tied to the latest and greatest groupsets with those bikes. But I really don’t see the point of expensive ass mech brakes on a mountain bike. You can get cheaper hydros on an mtb setup.
Great review!
Love the review and the in-depth details. Now if I had a bike with disk brakes............. :-)
Ridiculously strong.......... ridiculously priced.
This is so much better that hydraulics. You will always get home with mechanical disc calipers
Way too expensive for mechanical brakes
face your brake mounts and i bet they will feel even better
How do they compare to the Ole' Trusty BB7?
as aero as a brick though...