Hybrid diesel is the sweet spot right now. It’s a proven technology that works. The ferry between Houston and Galveston is hybrid diesel, as are numerous ferries in Japan and South Korea. The caveat is whether or not they can actually get them built and in service in a reasonable time frame and cost. We will see. But the boats and tech themselves are solid.
Wait until those batteries catch fire. Good news is they won’t run out of water trying to put it out. How long are the batteries supposed to last? Oh that’s right. Just like car dealers, you have no idea. They could have refurbished an old boat and replaced the diesel engines far faster than building a new partially electric boat! More of this horrible governor wasting money.
The current ferries are diesel electric and have smaller batteries already. They use a generator to power an electric motor. By the way the generators are retired train engines and catch on fire sometimes too
WSF needs to have Todd’s Shipyard/VIGOR do the job. They got the boats right when they did them. The last ship builder had to fill the hull with Cement to balance out the vessel. That means there is ALWAYS that extra weight onboard which means more fuel being burned each minute, each crossing, these boats are nicknamed the ILEAN Class lol. Give the bid to Vigor don’t go cheap on this round!! Should be up to the tax payers who gets to build the boats being we foot the bill year round as a tax payer!!
Good journalism would have told us the price of these fancy new boats and how the state plans to come up with what must be billions of dollars for all those new boats...
I’m glad they’ll be bringing a second vessel back to the Bremerton route. The current schedule is laughably scarce. My 1:30 ferry yesterday was cancelled with a handwritten note at the entrance, so I had to walk back home and cancel my plans for the day. Next one would’ve been at 4:15 according to their sailing schedule. How pathetic!
What does the Washington State Ferry System plan to do with all of the old ferry boats currently dry-docked on Bainbridge Island? Shouldn't they do something?. They're a terrible eyesore.
As the new boats come on board, the oldest most worn out ones will be retired and sold. Either for scrap or to new owners. Right now, some of those boats are tied up at the Eagle harbor ferry base because they do not have enough crews and personnel to man and maintain them due to properly skilled persons being unavailable. They need seamen, engineers, mechanics, shipwrights and welders. That work on stuff made out of metal. Not sit in front of plastic keyboards and computer screens. While they will use some computing gear to support the automation and its electronics, they still need hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers and seaman skills to man and actually sail the boats. Ferry’s are not metro busses. The are vessels that live on the water, not roads. If something goes wrong, you don’t just stop on the shoulder and call dispatch. You have to make sure you stay afloat and keep passengers safe. That a whole additional skill set from the bus and train operators and crew. Part of the reason they cost more to employ.
Diesel and battery fires are not green. It s so crazy how we think current battery tech is "green". Reminds me when thought if you eat vegan your saving the world.
Go green has every gullible fool singing the song of the lying greedy rich politicians they tell us go green while they line their pockets with the real green 😂
One of the reasons for the slow times is that WSF is a department of WashDOT.. and part of the highway system... They are mandated to carry automobiles. The pedestrian ferries are smaller, faster, and much cheaper but are funded by the local municipalities or counties... which do not have nearly as robust funding as the state. SFBay Ferry in CA is a model that should be more replicated around the Puget Sound.
Not necessarily a WSF issue it’s self. The shortage is caused by a lack of qualified crew. Used to be you could hire on at what used to be an entry level position Ordinary Seaman or Wiper Engineer. Due to serious accidents, near miss accidents, security (think 9/11) a person can no longer do that. A large cost to those people that do enter the profession are huge costs out of their pocket for mandatory training to stay proficient and maintain their USCG license. On top of that there are security requirements that include licensing as a transportation maritime work (ashore and afloat) these are big out the license holder pocket expenses. So when you think the crews are lazy they probably can’t afford to work these jobs and go for more higher paying jobs elsewhere. Those also require the license holder to be away from home for long periods of time.
@@jimpawa5793 I blame it on the fact, new hires could be placed on any of the ferry runs, at any day of work. Imagine working the south end of Vashon one day, then Anacortise the next. They do this to you for a few years before you get a perminant placement
You ferry riders, if you think it’s expensive now, wait till these boats come in service you have to fill out a loan application just to get on board😂.
Just imagine if we used our ship yards in state to build hybrid diesel electric boats, WSF could almost run like a real biz. Grow the local economy and provide a good service, who thinks like this?
Ferries have been required to be built by shipyards in the state since the early 70's. VIGOR is essentially a monopoly for this scale of work in WA. With the option to bid open to yards across the country, we can hopefully see build costs drop and get our fleet back up to the size they should be.
Isn't human reliability the bigger problem? Crew that do not show? And simply the demand of growing number of trips per person, cars per family, dependence on private transportation. Its up to government to reign it in instead of cater to it.
Not a small proportion of the noise and vibration on the ferries comes from the propellers and their churning through the water pushing those ferries along. Also plenty of noise also comes from the machinery on board such as the heating and ventilation system. So these boats are not going to be a whole lot quieter. They will still have diesel engines and big gear boxes and generators. Those all make noise too.
If the entire country stopped using fossil fuels the earth would not notice the change. Btw, anyone remember what happened decades ago when the state bought new, modern ferries? LOL
That has been discussed many times over the decades. Technical advances have made building even submersed tunnels more feasible. They would be many times the cost of a fleet of ferries, and requires 1-2 decades to implement. Heck, a bridge from Whidbey to Camano is now technically feasible, and would result in a wholly different traffic model for those two islands. Goodbye rural island life, but would resolve other problems the ferries struggle to solve. All of these solutions continue to feed the car-centric culture that is already starting to weaken in the work culture context. Our heavy reliance on individual transport creates these false dilemmas that are better addressed by different commute and work technologies. It will be a sea change, but the signs of personal transport fatigue is growing in the make car-dependant cultures. I am waiting for the Eastside light rail connections to complete to help address my own 3-day commute requirements. A foot ferry from Clinton to Seattle would be a dream in that direction. A pipe dream at this time.
@@ScotHarkins hope we get the tunnel system between islands and peninsula in my lifetime. Not only connecting seattle area but connecting cities all over the country.
Bigger ferries require longer load and unload times. Persistent delays for Muk-Cli began with the new 140-car ferries, initial technical issues notwithstanding. Schedules boil down to cars moved per hour, and whether the added size results in delays and the same or, worse, fewer cars moved per hour. The choke points really become the capacity of 2-lane ramps and the impact of load plans on vessel design. Switching to 3-lane ramps would require not just wholly new ramping docks, but new vessels. That would help with load times, but would really serve to promote our car-centric, single-driver culture. That culture is not sustainable, and this is just one sign. There was once a plan to add boats and ramps to runs, but that merely shifts the problem. Each vessel requires minimum crew numbers to run, which requires a long-term staffing plan to meet USCG and WSDOT training and qualifications with sufficient numbers, with pay comparable to commercial companies who might well pay more for mates and engineers and captains. I wish it were as simple as just building bigger vessels, but the math is really so much more involved.
@@ScotHarkins yeah I can tell you don't live in Edmonds where bigger is better because the 30 minute crossing can barely keep up with two jumbo class vessels 😜. The idea smaller is better doesn't work because whatever faster loading you get you lose to the docking which is overhead all sizes must endure. So in the end you're better off with a 300 car ferry that takes just as long to dock as a 150 car ferry that has to dock twice. Not to mention two vessels is twice the cost of specialized crew like captains and deck hands which are in short supply. In this day and age of shortage of crew whee every sailing counts,, the economies of scale favor larger vessels. There is absolutely no need for 3 ramps whatsoever. The current ramps are sufficient for 200 car ferries of which the state only has 3. Far too few.
Do these people buy a vehicle without a spare tire? So where does this salesman think the electricity is going to come from? The population growth is already having an impact on the hydroelectric system. Take him out of his office and show him the highland lakes and rivers during summer. Tell us about sustainability. Diesel-electric has been working. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Eventually the tech will get there, but not while most of it is disposable.
Do you think that any of the Ferrie superintendents or supervisors get fired. Does anyone get fired for incompetence, of course not. Thanks to the UNIONS.. Your tax dollars not working...
I would like to show King 5 News, how we can build new style electric boats, that don’t need to use fuel to power the boats, in any way. If you like my post, let me hear, as every time I have attempted to contact the news, I’ve been blocked. I see a future, where clean energy, doesn’t have to cost us both legs!
Electric ferries? Has our world gone crazy? Let’s get real these people are being paid to say this and a electric ferry is an entire dumb disaster waiting to arrive.
People transport is the responsibility of either sound transit or the county systems. Washington State ferries are part of Washington department of transportation which handles highways and roads not buses. Their funding is to carry cars first with the passenger decks merely a side gig
The most reliable it's ever been???? The average age of the WSF fleet is 35.6 years- they say ferries get retired at 60 years of age. 60 YEARS OLD! And as others have pointed out, they CONSISTENTLY cannot fully staff ferries, leading to RECORD BREAKING CANCELLATIONS AND DELAYS. The reality is simple: if you live in the San Juans, you cannot trust the ferries to deliver on-time services.
The Ferry system has been disastrously managed. There's no reason to believe this plan will work any better than the previous one.
Last mover advantages and all the fees will work out for some
Hybrid diesel is the sweet spot right now. It’s a proven technology that works.
The ferry between Houston and Galveston is hybrid diesel, as are numerous ferries in Japan and South Korea.
The caveat is whether or not they can actually get them built and in service in a reasonable time frame and cost. We will see.
But the boats and tech themselves are solid.
Wait until those batteries catch fire. Good news is they won’t run out of water trying to put it out. How long are the batteries supposed to last? Oh that’s right. Just like car dealers, you have no idea. They could have refurbished an old boat and replaced the diesel engines far faster than building a new partially electric boat! More of this horrible governor wasting money.
The current ferries are diesel electric and have smaller batteries already. They use a generator to power an electric motor. By the way the generators are retired train engines and catch on fire sometimes too
WSF needs to have Todd’s Shipyard/VIGOR do the job. They got the boats right when they did them. The last ship builder had to fill the hull with Cement to balance out the vessel. That means there is ALWAYS that extra weight onboard which means more fuel being burned each minute, each crossing, these boats are nicknamed the ILEAN Class lol. Give the bid to Vigor don’t go cheap on this round!! Should be up to the tax payers who gets to build the boats being we foot the bill year round as a tax payer!!
Good journalism would have told us the price of these fancy new boats and how the state plans to come up with what must be billions of dollars for all those new boats...
No problem financing this pie in the sky plan. The Washington state carbon tax will cover it
I’m glad they’ll be bringing a second vessel back to the Bremerton route. The current schedule is laughably scarce. My 1:30 ferry yesterday was cancelled with a handwritten note at the entrance, so I had to walk back home and cancel my plans for the day. Next one would’ve been at 4:15 according to their sailing schedule. How pathetic!
What does the Washington State Ferry System plan to do with all of the old ferry boats currently dry-docked on Bainbridge Island? Shouldn't they do something?. They're a terrible eyesore.
As the new boats come on board, the oldest most worn out ones will be retired and sold. Either for scrap or to new owners. Right now, some of those boats are tied up at the Eagle harbor ferry base because they do not have enough crews and personnel to man and maintain them due to properly skilled persons being unavailable. They need seamen, engineers, mechanics, shipwrights and welders. That work on stuff made out of metal. Not sit in front of plastic keyboards and computer screens. While they will use some computing gear to support the automation and its electronics, they still need hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers and seaman skills to man and actually sail the boats. Ferry’s are not metro busses. The are vessels that live on the water, not roads. If something goes wrong, you don’t just stop on the shoulder and call dispatch. You have to make sure you stay afloat and keep passengers safe. That a whole additional skill set from the bus and train operators and crew. Part of the reason they cost more to employ.
Diesel and battery fires are not green. It s so crazy how we think current battery tech is "green". Reminds me when thought if you eat vegan your saving the world.
When did they say it was green? they said it would save them money and be more reliable!
World war 2 warships were diesel electric and trains from the 1940+
How about them battery-powered ferries coming along, Dimslee?🤣
Washington State Department of Transportation manages it.
@@Mauser1965 it's Dimslee's pet project and his quixotic crusade to save the planet.
Dimslee! HAHA! Does you mom know that you are on the internet?
@@paullucas6019 Check your spelling before posting your comment or you sound uneducated.
@@alooga555go touch your dogs red rocket repugnant
Exclusive? How so? Are Washington ferries only speaking to king5? I’m confused. Are these ferries not publicly-disclosed? What’s the exclusive part?
Go green has every gullible fool singing the song of the lying greedy rich politicians they tell us go green while they line their pockets with the real green 😂
@@bocephusmcclintock3871 That's a great Marxist critique
So you're still using diesel to make it go. Got it. Absolutely incredible 🤣🤣🤣🤣
where does the electricity for the grid get made? Probably by burning fossil fuels...
One of the reasons for the slow times is that WSF is a department of WashDOT.. and part of the highway system... They are mandated to carry automobiles. The pedestrian ferries are smaller, faster, and much cheaper but are funded by the local municipalities or counties... which do not have nearly as robust funding as the state. SFBay Ferry in CA is a model that should be more replicated around the Puget Sound.
Thanks for covering this!
Let's wait another 5 years for new tech instead of fixing the glaring problems now. WSDOT needs new management.
Ha ha ! Go green , better keep the old ferry’s around to pull the green ferry back to shore when they breakdown in the middle of the sound!
I mean electric ferrys will be better! More gas vehicles have broken down over electric cars so electric is better
That’s why they are hybrid. Diesel engines for backup when the electrical ones fail or can’t hold a charge anymore.
The ferries are a mess, electric boats will do as much as elec cars do, not very much
But yet they can’t staff them
apply for an open job.
Not necessarily a WSF issue it’s self. The shortage is caused by a lack of qualified crew. Used to be you could hire on at what used to be an entry level position Ordinary Seaman or Wiper Engineer. Due to serious accidents, near miss accidents, security (think 9/11) a person can no longer do that. A large cost to those people that do enter the profession are huge costs out of their pocket for mandatory training to stay proficient and maintain their USCG license. On top of that there are security requirements that include licensing as a transportation maritime work (ashore and afloat) these are big out the license holder pocket expenses. So when you think the crews are lazy they probably can’t afford to work these jobs and go for more higher paying jobs elsewhere. Those also require the license holder to be away from home for long periods of time.
@@jimpawa5793 Exactly! And once they have all that training, licenses and book they are also qualified for jobs that pay much better!
@@jimpawa5793 I blame it on the fact, new hires could be placed on any of the ferry runs, at any day of work. Imagine working the south end of Vashon one day, then Anacortise the next. They do this to you for a few years before you get a perminant placement
I look forward to these being pulled from service for a .00000001% chance someone might get shocked.
All I can say is you can’t fix stupid!
You ferry riders, if you think it’s expensive now, wait till these boats come in service you have to fill out a loan application just to get on board😂.
Just imagine if we used our ship yards in state to build hybrid diesel electric boats, WSF could almost run like a real biz. Grow the local economy and provide a good service, who thinks like this?
Ferries have been required to be built by shipyards in the state since the early 70's. VIGOR is essentially a monopoly for this scale of work in WA. With the option to bid open to yards across the country, we can hopefully see build costs drop and get our fleet back up to the size they should be.
Isn't human reliability the bigger problem? Crew that do not show? And simply the demand of growing number of trips per person, cars per family, dependence on private transportation. Its up to government to reign it in instead of cater to it.
Not a small proportion of the noise and vibration on the ferries comes from the propellers and their churning through the water pushing those ferries along. Also plenty of noise also comes from the machinery on board such as the heating and ventilation system. So these boats are not going to be a whole lot quieter. They will still have diesel engines and big gear boxes and generators. Those all make noise too.
Interesting and fascinating.
Com on. Get ready for an increase in WSF problems. Debugging problems will make past problems look like kids stuff!
Electric grid in Clinton? 😮
I miss the Kalakala.
If the entire country stopped using fossil fuels the earth would not notice the change. Btw, anyone remember what happened decades ago when the state bought new, modern ferries? LOL
Why not just build the bridge or a tunnel system?
That has been discussed many times over the decades. Technical advances have made building even submersed tunnels more feasible. They would be many times the cost of a fleet of ferries, and requires 1-2 decades to implement.
Heck, a bridge from Whidbey to Camano is now technically feasible, and would result in a wholly different traffic model for those two islands. Goodbye rural island life, but would resolve other problems the ferries struggle to solve.
All of these solutions continue to feed the car-centric culture that is already starting to weaken in the work culture context. Our heavy reliance on individual transport creates these false dilemmas that are better addressed by different commute and work technologies. It will be a sea change, but the signs of personal transport fatigue is growing in the make car-dependant cultures.
I am waiting for the Eastside light rail connections to complete to help address my own 3-day commute requirements. A foot ferry from Clinton to Seattle would be a dream in that direction. A pipe dream at this time.
@@ScotHarkins hope we get the tunnel system between islands and peninsula in my lifetime. Not only connecting seattle area but connecting cities all over the country.
160 vs 144 for the Olympic class replacement is good but seems like a lost opportunity to make them all jumbo size
Bigger ferries require longer load and unload times. Persistent delays for Muk-Cli began with the new 140-car ferries, initial technical issues notwithstanding. Schedules boil down to cars moved per hour, and whether the added size results in delays and the same or, worse, fewer cars moved per hour. The choke points really become the capacity of 2-lane ramps and the impact of load plans on vessel design.
Switching to 3-lane ramps would require not just wholly new ramping docks, but new vessels. That would help with load times, but would really serve to promote our car-centric, single-driver culture. That culture is not sustainable, and this is just one sign.
There was once a plan to add boats and ramps to runs, but that merely shifts the problem. Each vessel requires minimum crew numbers to run, which requires a long-term staffing plan to meet USCG and WSDOT training and qualifications with sufficient numbers, with pay comparable to commercial companies who might well pay more for mates and engineers and captains.
I wish it were as simple as just building bigger vessels, but the math is really so much more involved.
@@ScotHarkins yeah I can tell you don't live in Edmonds where bigger is better because the 30 minute crossing can barely keep up with two jumbo class vessels 😜. The idea smaller is better doesn't work because whatever faster loading you get you lose to the docking which is overhead all sizes must endure. So in the end you're better off with a 300 car ferry that takes just as long to dock as a 150 car ferry that has to dock twice. Not to mention two vessels is twice the cost of specialized crew like captains and deck hands which are in short supply. In this day and age of shortage of crew whee every sailing counts,, the economies of scale favor larger vessels.
There is absolutely no need for 3 ramps whatsoever. The current ramps are sufficient for 200 car ferries of which the state only has 3. Far too few.
Do these people buy a vehicle without a spare tire? So where does this salesman think the electricity is going to come from? The population growth is already having an impact on the hydroelectric system. Take him out of his office and show him the highland lakes and rivers during summer. Tell us about sustainability. Diesel-electric has been working. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Eventually the tech will get there, but not while most of it is disposable.
Do you think that any of the Ferrie superintendents or supervisors get fired. Does anyone get fired for incompetence, of course not. Thanks to the UNIONS.. Your tax dollars not working...
The fee should be automated, good to go
pretty sure diesel is NOT electric
So.. how much more did these hybrid fairies cost?
About time, but a little late.
I have 100% confidence of the democrats ruining the Ferry system and the state.
I would like to show King 5 News, how we can build new style electric boats, that don’t need to use fuel to power the boats, in any way. If you like my post, let me hear, as every time I have attempted to contact the news, I’ve been blocked. I see a future, where clean energy, doesn’t have to cost us both legs!
Electric ferries? Has our world gone crazy? Let’s get real these people are being paid to say this and a electric ferry is an entire dumb disaster waiting to arrive.
Many of our ferries have been powered by electric motors since the late 50's.
No more car ferrys, No more commuting by car by ferry, it's just too wasteful.
Nah, unless you improve public transit options on the islands (doubtful), people have to be able to get around.
Yes, once they get a bridge. Washington State ferries are part of the highway system
People transport is the responsibility of either sound transit or the county systems. Washington State ferries are part of Washington department of transportation which handles highways and roads not buses. Their funding is to carry cars first with the passenger decks merely a side gig
We need both!
Unreliable new technology
Good luck
The most reliable it's ever been???? The average age of the WSF fleet is 35.6 years- they say ferries get retired at 60 years of age. 60 YEARS OLD! And as others have pointed out, they CONSISTENTLY cannot fully staff ferries, leading to RECORD BREAKING CANCELLATIONS AND DELAYS. The reality is simple: if you live in the San Juans, you cannot trust the ferries to deliver on-time services.