Thank you guys so much for these useful updates. We're planning on joining you in the Med in 2025 from the UK, so all of your hints and tips are very helpful. Thanks John
Oh great! That’s exciting for you. You will love it. Stay in touch and if you have any requests of what you’ll like to see, please let us know. We hope to see you one day 😊
Wow this video along with the others regarding the Schengen Shuffle could not have popped up at a better time. We're fellow Aussies, currently sailing across the North Atlantic towards the Azores and the Med. Our story is very similar to yours. We have subscribed and been binge watching the rest of your videos. Awesome work and hope to have a sundowner with you somewhere. Cheers.
Hi there Richard and Jude. Our Schengen time in Spain is running out....23 days left, eeeeekkkkk.....so going through the process of getting crew and passenger lists etc. One thing you haven't mentioned in your videos is seaman's books. Are you aware of those or just happy with doing what you're doing so not bothering to get them? Ours are on order and should be here hopefully tomorrow. They are done by a guy in Greece but processed in St Kits and Nevis. Quite costly (1440 euros for both) but supposedly even more helpful with the crew list where you don't even need to present your passport at all.
Hi thanks for letting us know what you are doing. Yes, we know of seaman's books and I believe they help when dealing with some authorities. We have not looked into them deeply as we are happy doing what we are doing but we would be interested to know how you get on with them.
Great video. The trouble IS that other countries or even parts of countries DO NOT allow the 'crew list' approach, which is designed for those operating commercially, and those who have an official seafarers book. So, try what you have in many Spanish ports, and you will be unsuccessful and you 'll end up getting passports stamped.....unless it's summer in the Balerics, in which case you may get away with it! So, you are right...good research, splash some cash, and be lucky. Always better lucky than good. Power to you. Thanks for sharing.
Hi it’s Jude, thanks for the comment. Yeah, we have heard that but our experience to date is that it’s been accepted - France, Italy, Malta and now Greece. One reason we use an agent is to protect us should we find ourselves in a situation where we are accused of not having acted appropriately. We can direct them to the agent and we are protected. The agents are bonded which means they are legally responsible for their decisions. So far so good! We are happy to be the guinea pigs testing this and sharing our experience as so many yachties are burdened by the 90 day limit and would love to be free of it. All the best, Jude
Thanks for sharing this series of videos explaining the “Crew” route to avoid Schengen rules. It’s been a thorough series and appreciate the time and effort to create. We have just purchased our new boat in Sicily and will commence our sailing season as soon as we return back from Australia. I hear so often that there are a lot of inconsistencies and sometimes it could be who you get on one day will affect how you travel. My question is has this process been tested and verified with the centralised body responsible for the Schengen law and its implementation? Could it be worth seeking this advise from the “horses mouth” so to speak in order to appease the masses and provide some clear guidelines on the crewing process? While it is good for some it may be interpreted as not so good for others and subsequently identifies floors in a legalised process that becomes open to a menagerie of interpretation. I too want to sail within the laws of schenghen. Just wish the powers that be gave a clear guideline on scheghen and crew options as one definitely outweighs the other. Thanks for sharing my search will continue 😂😂😂
Welcome to the EU. I'm not sure I would confident in the quality of the response to ask that question. Having read a lot of documents on this that relate to Schengen I could argue that it is quite clearly spelled out already why this is the practise across so many member states. There are other documents I would like to read but there are a lot that I would need to buy and right now it works for me and many others the way it is. I would suggest that you have a read of this document: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32016R0399 Appendix VI concerns people crossing boders by sea. Let me know what you think? Regards Richard
Hello Richard and Jude... Many thanks for the time and effort to put this most informative (and potentially consequential to many of us) video. A Question/Clarification when you have few minutes: So, from your recommendation---to avoid getting passport stamped---I gather this means that if one winterizes one's boat in the MED but flies back and forth for the summer months, and thus gets the passport stamped at the airport... it won't / CANNOT work. (E.g., once moving on the boat, arrange to stamp the passport for exiting EU… and continuing the time while cruising in status similar to yours.) Am I correct… that won’t work.)
Hi, thanks for your comment. If you enter the EU at an airport your passport would normally be stamped. Ours were and we engaged an agent to arrange a stamp out at immigration some time later. I also understand that if you arrange your arrival by plane with an agent they can meet you at the airport and walk you through immigration so that your passport won’t be stamped. We haven’t done this but I’ve heard agents in Greece at least provide this service. You’re right, you can’t just get stamped out on the pretext of leaving the EU but not actually leave. That would not be legal. Does this answer your question?
@@sailinghelios2023 Many thanks for your clarification. Looks like it is better than I feared. The key in your answer: "Ours were and we engaged an agent to arrange a stamp out at immigration some time later." hence, there is "HOPE FOR US." We will pursue. Thanks again. And hope you staying COOL (in boiling Greece !!!)
As a matter of interest is this only for Non EU residents and Non EU registered boats ? Eg: Aussie couple with a Polish register VAT paid boat ? Thinking this might work to collect the boat from Preveza marina after winter and sail into Montenegro to exit Schengen. Spend 80 days in Croatia (being our available Schengen days) then go back to Montenegro to exit Schengen and over to Greece using this system for a couple of months, then heading on down to Malta via Italy and onto Tunisia for winter ?
Hi, there are rules for the tax status of the boat (customs) and rules for people (immigration) and they have nothing to do with each other. If your boat is VAT paid you only have to consider immigration. For people, if you’re a non-EU citizen you’re subject to the Schengen limit if you’re on land. So yes, you may want to consider this crew list method of travelling. Your idea may work, however Greece is the trickiest place to do this. We have found that when you enter the EU in Greece they generally stamp your passport. It’s also tricky to exit the EU from Greece if you’re not stamped in - they check your passport and may pull you up for not being stamped in. I would avoid entering and exiting the EU at Greece on a crew list. Once officially in the EU then Greece can be fine for you to travel on a crew list. Happy to chat about better options for you. Can you message me? Jude.
Maybe we will if we get to Tunisia for the winter. Can I ask, what's it like there for boat works? We need to haul out, get some repairs and anti fouling done. Is this possible there? TIA 😁
You said u had RYA coastal skipper licence ?, if I don't have any skippers licence does this mess my plan to do exactly what you guys are doing even if I get an agent to act on my behalf as you have done ?
Now this is an interesting debate. I have come across the "seamans card" (MSF 4509) in the UK . This is issued by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. It costs (at time of writing June 2024) £105. Theoretically, it is for commercial vessles and large yachts, but any yachts crew seems eligable.
Hi, thanks for the comment. This is Jude. I forgot to mention this in the video - another question I asked the agent was about the Seafarers Identity Document (aka Seaman’s Book). Many people say you need your have one. The agent said it’s not necessary. We’ve looked into it and I think it would be helpful. We know of people who have one and just hand it over and get through fine. Some say you need that plus a current contract of employment. My friends weren’t asked for the contract. I think it’s well worth getting if you can.
I have shared your previous vid on a few pages to get feedback but alas nothing and no one knows about it. Ill share this again and see. Do you send in the pre arrival email required by France even with this process or just turn up?
@@sailinghelios2023 you have arrived in rhe EU then and that covers the same area and rules. When you enter you have to submit a pre arrival form 24 houra beforehand for pleasure craft. Are you saying you arrive un prompted and show the entry crew list only? If you see my other post this is being challanged because you are not contracted seamen. Im not trying to dispute what you are doing, trying understand how it can work when we are told we cannot do this legally.
If you read the actual Schengen rules then it includes an appendix (VI) that covers arrivals by sea. This includes pleasure boats. Pleasure boats have less restrictions than other vessels under the rules. The requirement is for you to be crew( I can’t see this defined anywhere) but I am certainly not a passenger. These are the only two distinctions other than stowaways and that I’m certainly not either.
A skipper’s license is independent of this process I believe. But it is a requirement in some countries even if you were getting stamped in. I had to provide my RYA Coastal Skipper for Greece.
RYA coastal skipper licence ?, if I don't have any skippers licence does this fowl my plan to do exactly what you guys are doing even if I get an agent to act on my behalf as you have done ?
Thank you guys so much for these useful updates. We're planning on joining you in the Med in 2025 from the UK, so all of your hints and tips are very helpful.
Thanks John
Oh great! That’s exciting for you. You will love it. Stay in touch and if you have any requests of what you’ll like to see, please let us know. We hope to see you one day 😊
Wow this video along with the others regarding the Schengen Shuffle could not have popped up at a better time. We're fellow Aussies, currently sailing across the North Atlantic towards the Azores and the Med. Our story is very similar to yours. We have subscribed and been binge watching the rest of your videos. Awesome work and hope to have a sundowner with you somewhere. Cheers.
Nice! I’m so glad to have bed helpful. We’d love to catch up if at all possible. Safe travels. You are going to love the med!
Hi there Richard and Jude. Our Schengen time in Spain is running out....23 days left, eeeeekkkkk.....so going through the process of getting crew and passenger lists etc. One thing you haven't mentioned in your videos is seaman's books. Are you aware of those or just happy with doing what you're doing so not bothering to get them? Ours are on order and should be here hopefully tomorrow. They are done by a guy in Greece but processed in St Kits and Nevis. Quite costly (1440 euros for both) but supposedly even more helpful with the crew list where you don't even need to present your passport at all.
Hi thanks for letting us know what you are doing. Yes, we know of seaman's books and I believe they help when dealing with some authorities. We have not looked into them deeply as we are happy doing what we are doing but we would be interested to know how you get on with them.
Great info, many thanks.
You’re welcome.
Great video. The trouble IS that other countries or even parts of countries DO NOT allow the 'crew list' approach, which is designed for those operating commercially, and those who have an official seafarers book. So, try what you have in many Spanish ports, and you will be unsuccessful and you 'll end up getting passports stamped.....unless it's summer in the Balerics, in which case you may get away with it! So, you are right...good research, splash some cash, and be lucky. Always better lucky than good. Power to you. Thanks for sharing.
Hi it’s Jude, thanks for the comment. Yeah, we have heard that but our experience to date is that it’s been accepted - France, Italy, Malta and now Greece. One reason we use an agent is to protect us should we find ourselves in a situation where we are accused of not having acted appropriately. We can direct them to the agent and we are protected. The agents are bonded which means they are legally responsible for their decisions. So far so good! We are happy to be the guinea pigs testing this and sharing our experience as so many yachties are burdened by the 90 day limit and would love to be free of it. All the best, Jude
Thanks for sharing this series of videos explaining the “Crew” route to avoid Schengen rules.
It’s been a thorough series and appreciate the time and effort to create. We have just purchased our new boat in Sicily and will commence our sailing season as soon as we return back from Australia. I hear so often that there are a lot of inconsistencies and sometimes it could be who you get on one day will affect how you travel. My question is has this process been tested and verified with the centralised body responsible for the Schengen law and its implementation? Could it be worth seeking this advise from the “horses mouth” so to speak in order to appease the masses and provide some clear guidelines on the crewing process? While it is good for some it may be interpreted as not so good for others and subsequently identifies floors in a legalised process that becomes open to a menagerie of interpretation. I too want to sail within the laws of schenghen. Just wish the powers that be gave a clear guideline on scheghen and crew options as one definitely outweighs the other. Thanks for sharing my search will continue 😂😂😂
Welcome to the EU. I'm not sure I would confident in the quality of the response to ask that question. Having read a lot of documents on this that relate to Schengen I could argue that it is quite clearly spelled out already why this is the practise across so many member states. There are other documents I would like to read but there are a lot that I would need to buy and right now it works for me and many others the way it is. I would suggest that you have a read of this document: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32016R0399
Appendix VI concerns people crossing boders by sea. Let me know what you think?
Regards Richard
@@sailinghelios2023 thanks will review and get back to you 🙏🏻
Hello Richard and Jude... Many thanks for the time and effort to put this most informative (and potentially consequential to many of us) video. A Question/Clarification when you have few minutes: So, from your recommendation---to avoid getting passport stamped---I gather this means that if one winterizes one's boat in the MED but flies back and forth for the summer months, and thus gets the passport stamped at the airport... it won't / CANNOT work. (E.g., once moving on the boat, arrange to stamp the passport for exiting EU… and continuing the time while cruising in status similar to yours.) Am I correct… that won’t work.)
Hi, thanks for your comment. If you enter the EU at an airport your passport would normally be stamped. Ours were and we engaged an agent to arrange a stamp out at immigration some time later. I also understand that if you arrange your arrival by plane with an agent they can meet you at the airport and walk you through immigration so that your passport won’t be stamped. We haven’t done this but I’ve heard agents in Greece at least provide this service.
You’re right, you can’t just get stamped out on the pretext of leaving the EU but not actually leave. That would not be legal. Does this answer your question?
@@sailinghelios2023
Many thanks for your clarification. Looks like it is better than I feared. The key in your answer: "Ours were and we engaged an agent to arrange a stamp out at immigration some time later." hence, there is "HOPE FOR US." We will pursue. Thanks again. And hope you staying COOL (in boiling Greece !!!)
As a matter of interest is this only for Non EU residents and Non EU registered boats ?
Eg: Aussie couple with a Polish register VAT paid boat ?
Thinking this might work to collect the boat from Preveza marina after winter and sail into Montenegro to exit Schengen. Spend 80 days in Croatia (being our available Schengen days) then go back to Montenegro to exit Schengen and over to Greece using this system for a couple of months, then heading on down to Malta via Italy and onto Tunisia for winter ?
Hi, there are rules for the tax status of the boat (customs) and rules for people (immigration) and they have nothing to do with each other. If your boat is VAT paid you only have to consider immigration.
For people, if you’re a non-EU citizen you’re subject to the Schengen limit if you’re on land. So yes, you may want to consider this crew list method of travelling. Your idea may work, however Greece is the trickiest place to do this. We have found that when you enter the EU in Greece they generally stamp your passport. It’s also tricky to exit the EU from Greece if you’re not stamped in - they check your passport and may pull you up for not being stamped in. I would avoid entering and exiting the EU at Greece on a crew list. Once officially in the EU then Greece can be fine for you to travel on a crew list.
Happy to chat about better options for you. Can you message me?
Jude.
Judeandrichard@sailinghelios.com
@@sailinghelios2023sorry I didn’t see your email below - have messaged you via FB wink
Maybe we will if we get to Tunisia for the winter. Can I ask, what's it like there for boat works? We need to haul out, get some repairs and anti fouling done. Is this possible there? TIA 😁
In Monastir you can haul out at the marina or the fishing port that is close by. Good stainless fabricators.
You said u had RYA coastal skipper licence ?,
if I don't have any skippers licence does this mess my plan to do exactly what you guys are doing even if I get an agent to act on my behalf as you have done ?
No, not at all. They pay no attention to the qualifications that you have.
Now this is an interesting debate. I have come across the "seamans card" (MSF 4509) in the UK . This is issued by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. It costs (at time of writing June 2024) £105. Theoretically, it is for commercial vessles and large yachts, but any yachts crew seems eligable.
Hi, thanks for the comment. This is Jude. I forgot to mention this in the video - another question I asked the agent was about the Seafarers Identity Document (aka Seaman’s Book). Many people say you need your have one. The agent said it’s not necessary. We’ve looked into it and I think it would be helpful. We know of people who have one and just hand it over and get through fine. Some say you need that plus a current contract of employment. My friends weren’t asked for the contract. I think it’s well worth getting if you can.
Only if your paid
.
Thank you for your excellent video, can you give the name and email of the agent you used in Monaco the first year please, thank you
Here are the contact details: medyachtservices.com/monaco/
We spoke with Laura.
I have shared your previous vid on a few pages to get feedback but alas nothing and no one knows about it. Ill share this again and see. Do you send in the pre arrival email required by France even with this process or just turn up?
We have never arrived in France as first port of call into the EU so can’t comment.
@@sailinghelios2023 you have arrived in rhe EU then and that covers the same area and rules. When you enter you have to submit a pre arrival form 24 houra beforehand for pleasure craft. Are you saying you arrive un prompted and show the entry crew list only?
If you see my other post this is being challanged because you are not contracted seamen. Im not trying to dispute what you are doing, trying understand how it can work when we are told we cannot do this legally.
If you read the actual Schengen rules then it includes an appendix (VI) that covers arrivals by sea. This includes pleasure boats. Pleasure boats have less restrictions than other vessels under the rules. The requirement is for you to be crew( I can’t see this defined anywhere) but I am certainly not a passenger. These are the only two distinctions other than stowaways and that I’m certainly not either.
Would you be required to have a skipper license to do this?
A skipper’s license is independent of this process I believe. But it is a requirement in some countries even if you were getting stamped in. I had to provide my RYA Coastal Skipper for Greece.
Many thanks from New Caledonia 😊
RYA coastal skipper licence ?,
if I don't have any skippers licence does this fowl my plan to do exactly what you guys are doing even if I get an agent to act on my behalf as you have done ?