You'll find that a lot of serial killers are pathetic assholes. BTK gave himself his own nickname and practically begged newspapers to use it. Wrote dog shit poetry too.
@@chopmopjeter18 Penelope's song about it is pretty accurate tbh, they're just a bunch of pricks bragging about winning a game nobody knew they were playing in the first place
ah yes, i love how this podcast is about cold cases, cults, and morbid topics in general and for hosts we have the 3 most dangerous types of ppl in the entire world: a florida man, an australian man and an Appalachian man. it truly gives them more credit to talk ab those kind of stuff.
Probably handling business stuff, when you've got your fingers in as many pies as Charlie it's impossible to carve out 3 hours of the day uninterrupted.
@@Wohlfeshouldnt spread himself thin then. Not an excuse for not being present. 3 hours every 2 weeks isnt a huge commitment for someone who stays home 24/7.
“There you are, sitting on your couch listening to a podcast when all of the sudden, you’re the zodiac killer. You didn’t want this, you didn’t ask for this. But there it is”
Wendigoon is the only one who has a sponsor for ag1 and has never sponsored the other companies cause he keeps his sponsors with what his beliefs are he will only sponsor pg companies usually and has a long history with ag1
@@queuedjar4578have you read the bible? There's all kinds kinky shit in there. I mean there's one dude that gets whipped by a leather Dom before they threw him on the saint Andrews cross. After care was garbage tho so after 3 days he left the scene
The case being referred to around 16:53 is actually super fascinating and a little sad - the guy (Ryan Waller) wasn't just talking to the police after a robbery with a bullet in the head - they were actively interrogating him for over 6 hours because they thought he'd committed the robbery and shot his girlfriend and refused him any medical attention despite having multiple head wounds and a messed-up eye. He ended up losing part of his brain, his eye, and having constant seizures for the next year before he finally died.
@@JudgeNicodemusOh, yeah Alright Somebody's Heine' Is crowdin' my icebox Somebody's cold one Is givin' me chills Guess I'll just close my eyes Oh, yeah Alright Feels good Inside Flip on the telly Wrestle with Jimmy Something is bubbling Behind my back The bottle is ready to blow Say it ain't so Your drug is a heartbreaker Say it ain't so My love is a life taker I can't confront you I never could do That which might hurt you To try and be cool When I say This way is a waterslide away from me That takes her further every day So be cool Say it ain't so Your drug is a heartbreaker Say it ain't so My love is a life taker Dear daddy, I write you In spite of years of silence You've cleaned up, found Jesus Things are good, or so I hear This bottle of Steven's awakens ancient feelings Like father, stepfather The son is drowning in the flood Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Say it ain't so Your drug is a heartbreaker Say it ain't so My love is a life taker
I agree. And if the media never made shit like this high profile we wouldn’t have a bunch of nobody wack jobs trying to be somebody by killing the innocent but too late now
@@risottopose9970 Unfortunately, the serial killer industry has been like that for a while now. There's a lack of regulation, so pretty much any sucker that takes a life can claim killer status. It's a damn shame.
I will never blame someone for not stopping to help, and instead getting someone that can help better. That is usually the most effective kind of help you can give in an emergency if you are not trained. Thankfully in this day and age we have phones that can call more effective help quickly, but before that access, of course I won't blame someone for doing the safest thing for themself or let alone their child.
This! And being a woman sometimes people fake needing help to kidnap for a list of possible reasons. I will keep driving and call whoever needs to be called for them instead. Sucks we live in that kind of world but that’s just where we are
Based. If you're significantly weaker or unarmed you won't do any good and will probably make the situation worse by doubling the victim count. Women in CCW states PLEASE go take the course and protect yourself and your children. When seconds count, police can be minutes away.
@@kiriliri Brad Douriff, the voice actor famously known for his role in Chucky, is from West Virginia. I don't know why i know that, but he seems like a pretty sane individual
@@contentcop It's because it was in the american capitalists interest to fck over the area. They betrayed the American worker for cheap foreign labor. Leaving the whole area dead to the world. I think 1/6 kids are food insecure in America and 1/3 of them are in Appalachia where their only guaranteed meals were school lunches that local politicians love taking away. Its a disgusting state of affairs. I have a respect for anyone who makes it out, and compassion for those who were born and left to die of a disease of despair.
Real important thing to bring up about that guy who was in the interrogation with a bullet in his head: he absolutely did know he got shot in the head, the policeman fully ignored the fact that he told him that multiple times and refused to get him any help for the entire interrogation. They believed he was the one who killed his girlfriend (who was also shot in the break in, I don't remember if the break in was a robbery or not) so they treated him like absolute trash the entire time. The cop kept insisting that he "wouldn't be talking to them" if he had a bullet in his brain, and allegedly if he had gotten help before the interrogation he likely would've survived. As far as I'm concerned, that cop's a straight up murderer and should've been thrown in jail with the people who put the bullet in the victim.
Shocker. American cops are the largest organized crime syndicate in the country. "Nobody ever made a song called 'fuck the fire department" - Snoop Dog (I know but he's got a point)
To be fair, if the partner of a dead woman was found at the scene of the crime talking about how he was shot in the head while being fully lucid, I'd be very suspicious too if I was an officer. I wouldn't believe him either.
the killer became popular because people love a good puzzle, then when the puzzle was solved everyone was just like, "oh..okay, so he's just a little piss boy.." and i'm here for it
Actually, (yup I'm gonna be that person) there is still one more letter that no one is be able to decipher. To this day, one letter is still just a bunch of symbols.
I love the "ricky when I catch you ricky" energy that builds up toward the police throughout this episode because the way cases with obvious conclusions are CONSISTENTLY fumbled has me frothing at the mouth
"After 6 months, they searched the pile of skulls and found skulls" I believe is the quote about how police _actually_ operate vs. the media portrayal.
For real. It's so fucking sad that I barely even noticed when they said that because it's so unsurprising here in the USA. Large city police departments feel like they operate as organized crime.
Love that Windigoon is our local gun/Christian expert, the way he explains it in such lay-man's terms is so useful to the case. I can't forget to highlight Jackson's ability to research and organize. Also Moist's pop culture knowledge. I love this colab
It's crazy how in America it's normal to think "oh he's Christian, he might be knowledgeable in guns as well". Or to think it's totally normal for a Christian to be very well versed with guns. As a non-American it's crazy to see
@@mao7American here, We don’t assume that just because someone’s Christian that they are knowledgeable on guns, tons are completely against weapons in general lol, Op was just grouping what wendigo is most knowledgeable on, not saying those two things correlate
@@Icegrip12 fair. I misunderstood. However seeing a lot of news and imagery of "churches" from your country straight up preaching guns to their members is nothing short of horrifying.
@@mao7 most people who own guns and are proud of it are conservative and there's a large overlap of conservatives and christians so you're not wrong. guns are more of a status symbol for them despite what they say lol.
@@ollieollieoxenfree3246you obviously just dont like guns. you dont need to be mad at people that like guns. imo its better to have one in the home and be trained than not 99% of the time. especially in america.
YES YES YES YES, Jackson be like "you wake up to find a zodiac sign on your hand and a dead person besides you, you look in the mirror.. and you realize you're Ted Cruz!!!!"
My mother grew up in the Bay Area, she was a teen when the zodiac killer was around, she told me how on edge she was and how scared she was when she worked late night shifts. I’ve been to the lake in Vallejo and it was an eerie feeling knowing what happened there.
53:39 Speech therapist here- you’re thinking of TBI induced expressive aphasia. There are a few aphasias that result in a loss of writing ability, but you’re correct in that it isn’t necessarily connected with a loss of cognitive and/or comprehension ability unless there are injuries to other parts of the brain in addition to Broca’s area.
Looks like he defaults to spelling words based on how they sound rather than how they're actually spelled out. Reminds me of how I used to spell things while learning English
Damn I know most people are here from Isaiahs or Charlies fanbase but Jackson is such a good host he's carrying this podcast. His writing is very cool too
Imagine being in such a horrible place in your life with mental illness and such that you feel to commit “s u i c i d e” and you just so happen to get rid of your schizophrenia. What a freaking miracle…whoever actually lived that hopefully is still alive and doing much better in life.
Lead poisoning causes a wide variety of symptoms. One of the most common is a dampening of one’s mental ability and the dulling of one’s thoughts. So essentially, he overdosed himself with a 1920s treatment for “the Crazies” with a bullet instead of a hypodermic needle. Wild asf to think about.
I heard of case where a guy essentially cured his p*dophilia like that. He either got clocked or shot in the head, and that somehow scrambled his brain just enough to not be attracted to minors anymore. His personality drastically changed, mind you, but he seemed fine afterwards. It seemed like he had some sort of brain inflammation that caused him to have weird impulses, and somehow that fixed it
1:11:30 to be clear, "multiple personality disorder" is still recognized by the dsm, but has been changed to disossiative identity disorder to better describe it with updated symptoms and information (including the fact that it is not at all a violent disorder except possibly when the person is threatened)
@@zwurka6826i think it’s more in reference to feeling threatened over minuscule things and/or think they are being threatened due to trauma response, when in reality they are not
@@spookthesam Yes, that is a symptom of trauma in general, particularly PTSD. Which, well, DID is theorized to be caused by childhood trauma, so it tracks!
This episode reminds me of a long standing joke I had with a friend who passed (RIP Keifer). We used to joke about opening a restaurant called the Zodiac Griller with a bunch of different serial killer themed meals.
Where I live, there's a restaurant chain called "Serial griller" and the menu is based off of horror characters as well as Serial killers. Very cool place with good food
I'm actually 100% convinced he put his name in those letters...but in an impossible to guess way, like multiplying the 2th and 4th letter of every other word starting with c divided by 6 and moving the result 2 letters (a->c) or something dumb like that His ego was waaaay too big to not attempt something like that
I would believe that with him making it impossible, a.k.a. "I made stuff up just so I can seem smart". What I found most frustrating besides the fact he makes the most ridiculous and horrendous 'puzzles', is that we would likely have to use ai to even crack down what name he gave in that 'cipher'. 😒
A lot of people overestimate the lethality and incapacitating effect of handguns rounds. Particularly in an era where modern style hollow point/expanding ammunition was uncommon, FMJ handgun rounds tend to just poke narrow holes (without the more 'dramatic' stuff that happens at rifle velocities). If an important organ isn't hit, the person shot may not even realize they're wounded under the effects of adrenaline. To paraphrase Clint Smith: "People shot with handguns run away. People shot with rifles fall down." Or alternatively: "Pistols poke holes in people. Rifles poke holes through people. At the right range and with the right load, shotguns will physically remove a chunk of your opponent and throw it on the ground."
This wasnt as bad as a shot I'm sure, but I fell running late to school and then ran a track field distance to class before I discovered that I couldn't bend my ankle and was bleeding pretty bad from the knee. Adrenaline is no joke
As someone who is dyslexic, I do have difficulty spelling words, however, I misspell words differently almost every time. I’ve misspelled the same word 3 different ways in the same sentence so probably not dyslexia.
@@MamadNobari I know right and homeless people should just buy a house, impoverished should just get a million dollar loan, and I should just stop covering myself in petrol and lighting myself on fire every time a personified cartoon animal beats me in a game of blackjack🤦🏼♂️ it's not that simple you dunce
I didn't look at Jackson's notes last week, but wow he did an amazing job preparing for this podcast. 33 pages, with pages cited. Hat's off to Jackson for his diligence!
Jackson is fuckin wild like that. When he's doing show notes, he goes fuckin all in, all the nuance and considerations right there. But sometimes, he'll have these one off thoughts where he has like, two data points, and come to the most outrageous conclusions (*ahem*, Final Solutioning pitbulls, for instance). Real duality with Jackson
The Zodiac is like the real world equivalent of The Riddler: a guy who loves to troll the police with cyphers and puzzles, is super grandiose in the letters he writes and thinks he’s so much smarter than everyone else.
"The Zodiac Killer" sounds too cool. Can we please collectively switch to "Mr. Meth Pit" and perhaps name a fictional national park after him (The Mr. stands for Mystery) You're right, that was atrocious. I'm ready to atone for my sins.
Just wanted to point out that MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) wasn't declared as not a disability it was just renamed to DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) to better represent how the illness actually works. Heard it mentioned and wanted to clear any confusion about that.
@@guyferrari8124 Actually is a real thing. It's a rare disorder that's typically found in people who were sexually abused in their childhoods long-term. It's a psychological defense mechanism that allows the individual to detach from the trauma.
@@itsbinxbroit doesn't really have to be trauma from sexual abuse It can be from other related trauma aswell. It can be both physical abuse aswell It just depends on which stage in life this happens to a person which happens to be around the time your a small child
@@scarlet5122 It's also not 100% confirmed that severe trauma is absolutely necessary for DID to form. And if it does require trauma, it's just.. pretty much any kind of trauma. Seeing a horrific crash, getting severely emotionally abused, witnessing a violent crime, etc. The more I research and speak to fellow systems, the more it becomes clear that psychologists don't *actually* understand what the deal is with DID and OSDD. We have a *massive* range of differing experiences and origins. And that's fine, humanity is always learning more and more. But it absolutely needs to be studied much more.
Going over cases where people survived head injuries would be a cool idea for an episode. There's a lot of weird cases out there like; people being struck by lighting and suddenly being proficient at advance math, as well as, one case of a man who OD on acid and was able to speak fluently in another language once revived. The brain is weird.
One thing I'd say about why the police didn't release stuff about Leigh is that in cases where the prime suspect is deceased, and there's no chance of justice being served, the police will weigh the possible damage vs benefit of releasing their information on him. If Leigh has living relatives, they might not want to release that he was the killer, as being related to a famous serial killer could adversely affect those relatives, who are entirely innocent.
With the taxi driver, I think an another scenario could also be the driver made a remark or joke about him being the Zodiac Killer. An offhand remark just making small talk about the story, inflated by his ego & paranoia at the time could definitely lead to him believing he’s “onto him”.
17:30 I had a buddy, who's brother, also a friend, earlier in life, put a bullet through his chin out if the top of his head. He survived, later got married had a kid, everything. He had a dent and scar on his head, otherwise you would have never known.
Charlie is the friend that loves to listen to his friends talk, Isaiah is the friend who loves talking and always knows what happening, and Jackson is the kind of friend who has the facts straight and in graved in his mind.
Thank y'all so much for covering this case! Buzzfeed Unsolved did this years ago but they didn't go nearly this in depth and they didn't provide as many comprehensive images to help with understanding. I've learned a lot more this go around. Thank you!
21:56 This is why people think that silencers are actually like those seen in movies. The gunshots were muffled, but someone about 800 feet away could hear them... Yeah, of course they could hear it. They were only 800 feet away. A silencer CANNOT make a gunshot disappear. You'd be able to hear the gunshot from a silenced 9mm pistol a quarter mile away, at least. It may not register immediately as being a gunshot, but you would definitely hear it. The Decibel scale is logarithmic, meaning that there's an integer representation of sound levels that are exponentially increasing as the distance to the sound decreased. Basically, in the logarithmic scale of dB, 3 points means the sound is 2 times as loud. 6 means that its 4 times as loud, and so forth. A normal, unsuppressed 9mm pistol will be around 150-156 dB. A suppressed 9mm pistol will be around 128-135 dB at the same distance. A loud clap with your hands registers around 120-130 dB, depending on several factors. So what would you hear if someone clapped their hands loudly from 800 feet (about 267 yards; or a par 3 hole on a golf course) away? You'd hear it, but it'd be pretty muffled. There's also a huge difference between firing a supersonic 9mm bullet or a subsonic round from a 9mm suppressed pistol. The supersonic round would have a sonic-boom between the muzzle and the target which is typically around the 135-140 dB range, regardless of using a silencer. The main reason that people use silencers on guns is to negate the necessity for hearing orotection while shooting. It also makes gunfire less obtrusive for other people in tge immediate area. But what it doesn't do, however, is make the gunshot inaudible. In fact, hunting in many European countries means that you MUST use a silencer so that it doesn't disturb the leace of others or damage anyone's hearing. We happen to be in the extreme minority with the extreme regulation of these firearm accessories in the US.
24:10 Here, Isaiah is mostly correct. I mean, a suppressed 5.56 (especially from an AR-15 where a lot of the sound near the shooter is coming from the ejection port since it's a gas-operated system) will be about as loud as a 22lr rifle without a silencer. As a dude who has shot thousands of rounds of 22lr, and a couple hundred more rounds from larger calibers without hearing protection, mostly unintentionally, (and who now has moderate tinnitus from it), it's not a huge deal. But when firing a bolt-action 22lr, you get much less noise at your ear than you would by firing a silenced 5.56 in an AR. I've had days at the range firing 7.62 AKs and 5.56/6.8SPC/308 ARs where one earplug wasn't sealed (or even in) on accident, and it physically hurt. But I've shot thousands of rounds of 22 without ear pro which just felt kinda loud. That's why I'm such a stickler for people wearing hearing protection or having a silencer now. It WILL preserve your hearing for longer. And yes, the auditory "ringing" you feel/hear will stick around long after you're done shooting.
The bit around 1:48:00 is a song parody. "I've got a little list" from a light opera called The Mikado. It's a piece that's known to have it's lyrics changed for more relevant humor over time.
Great show! I’m teaching a freshman seminar course now on The World of Forensic Science, and I will be playing this episode of the podcast to the class. What a great discussion on how forensics has evolved over the decades. Thanks!!
I suffered a head injury, golf club to the forehead, and it heavily impacted my ability to read. It was around 7th grade and I had to spend time relearning how to read. Sometimes I'll think a word is a different word then it is, or just seems like not a word at all, but its not outright like seeing a different letter. Also have difficulty reading books because by the time I get to the next page, I've forgotten what I just read. On the other hand, I became much faster with my learning after that, especially anything analytical. Head trauma sure is the devil's coin flip.
im halfway through the episode but it's driving me mad that they can't understand he's spelling everything phonetically. For me, I'm very well read, and well verbally educated but rarely saw the words I saw/heard at the same time (and still want to spell it "febuary" because that's how it's pronounced). I don't have dyslexia but do have a speech impediment, so I quite often have to visualise the word in my head in a phonetic way so I can say it the right way. Dunno ... if you were wanting to brag about the 'worst' / 'inner self', would you bother or even want to correct your most personal brain/language inner workings??
Had a park ranger that would tell us during class that every invasive plant we killed had to serve us in the afterlife. I know what he was referring to now.
I think the mispellings and the cyphers go hand in hand. He leaves the mistakes there on purpose, and then the cyphers would still be mispelled, but would be consistent enough? Since the symbols can be tricky
The misspellings are there to hide another clue that is only accessed with the word solar. So called ciphers arent ciphers, these are all english like versions of arabic, and you solve them with google translator.
Just one point, The Pace Postcard is not Dr Suess it's quoting Gilbert and Sullivan's song 'I've got a little list' from 'The Mikado.' Which means the Zodiac was educated enough to be familiar with Victorian English musical theatre.
I also lived in Arthur Lee Allen’s house on 32 Fresno street, I think the direction of my stay was from maybe 2010-2014? Maybe shorter I’ll ask my mom in the morning
I was thinking that, on the Halloween greeting card thing, the symbol next to the 'Z' and the zodiac symbol was him showing that all 3 symbols are the same. They all stand for the letter Z. Maybe not tho, the guy is off his rocker. You guys are awesome!
lol I'm here for starting the episodes as random people/objects/animals. props to Jackson, so impressed with how thorough and detailed he is! my new favorite podcast.
One of these "coinceedences" that stud out to me was the fact that Allen didn't buy the Zodiac watch imself, it being a gift from is mom right beefore it all started. i wander what his relasionship with his mom was like ps- sorry for bed english
Has anyone thought to take all the misspelled words, take out the specific letters that are misspelled, put them all together to try to see if it’s another cipher?
Literally watched creep cast while waiting for a new red thread, episode finished. Then I got this notification for this. ITS A GOOD OPENING AT WORK NOW THANK YOU
I lived in the same county as Gary Poste for most of my life, and that place is definitely where someone with a history could go and be forgotten. There are a lot of remote areas and neighbors typically don't ask questions, especially the further out of town you got. I remember hearing about the Russian Mafia being tied to bodies that were dumped in New Melones, so clearly the place had a certain "disposal" allure that's just a few hours from the bay area. It was a wild place to live! I love how thorough you guys are with every episode and the content; it really helps reframe a lot of information that would be otherwise hard to chew through and incredibly entertaining and informative! I always look forward to a new episode, keep up the fantastic work guys!
The reason why the talk show calls were hoaxes was because it was confirmed the person called 35 times, but only 12 (I think) were on air. Police also traced the call and it was from a patient from a mental hospital. They also questioned one of the people who did hear the Zodiac killers voice, AKA the police dispatcher who answered the call when he first reported himself, explained that the voice that called wasn't the Zodiac's voice and that his voice was more lower than who made the call. Going back to the fact, the Zodiac himself said in his next letter that he wasn't the one who called.
So how did a mental patient know about the Zodiac Killer? In a mental institution they limit your stimuli. They wouldn't have allowed newspapers with news about murders and they wouldn't allow them to watch that type of content on TV. They even limited access to cartoons because they were too violent. A mental patient would not have known what the case was all about.
24:08 the best firearms interview I’ve ever seen was a ex marine explaining the role of a suppressor. Wendy is %100 percent correct, the suppressors goal is to eliminate the flash. The sounds is dampened but with standard rounds you’ll still hear that initial ignition.
I believe the US Marine Corps infantryman are all issues a suppressor now for that exact reason. Imagine in a night raid knowing you're getting shot at but can't see where tf it's coming from. Also the acoustics make it hard to determine where the round was shot from by sound.
I always thought the cab driver theory that made the most sense was that somehow a conversation about zodiac killer was had and cabbie may have said Z was a coward and failure Z lost it
i truly believe the typos were so the codes couldn’t be brute force cracked but also to give continuity between them as a “you’re on the right path cracking this one”
1:11:15 Correction: He's right that Multiple Personality Disorder is not in the current DSM-5 anymore, but that's because it's been replaced with Disassociative Identity Disorder, which is a much more accurate description of what happens compared to calling it MPD. It's still very difficult to diagnose though.
17:36 There is also a case like that in Colombia, a man was shot right next to his nose, he bled out and all but survided, only losing movility of his legs as is to this day still alive.
Fun Fact, the movie Dirty Harry is actually based on the Zodiac Killer. The main antagonist Scorpio is loosely based on him, and it takes place in the San Francisco Bay Area
If only the San Francisco police department had a Dirty Harry, we wouldn't be talking about this unsolved mystery. Even though there are MANY coincidences that point to Lee Allen, I had no clue about the bomb thing in his basement.
The topics you guys have covered on the Red Thread lately i am really educated on and usually that would deter me from watching a video about them but i LOVe your guys commentary so much. Its so funny while also giving new information i didnt know about before. I get so excited when i see new posts. THANKS GUYS I CANT WAIT TO WATCH WHILE DOING MY HAIR AND MAKEUP!!!!!
The zodiac was born in the perfect time to do what he was doing, but now with today’s technology and everyone’s recording everything with their high-quality iPhones. He would’ve not been able to get away with it at all. 😂
whoa whoa whoa. around 1:05:35 Isaiah says something like "the DSM-5 no longer recognizes multiple personalities as a thing" while it's no longer referred to as "multiple personalities," it has been updated to Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and is absolutely something still recognized by the DSM-5
@@Macho_Fantasticoit is not overrated at all, I find that most people end up really liking it. There's a certain basement scene that lives on in thriller infamy in the best of ways.
This is fucked up but imagine getting stabbed and having to pretend youre dead while the killer writes a fucking paragraph on your car, actually insane
1:47:48 This is the List Song from Gilbert & Sullivan's 'The Mikado'. It is sung by Ko-ko, the Lord High Executioner, about the types of people he would be happy to execute, should the need ever arise. The Tit-willow reference later is also from one of Ko-ko's songs. So either the Zodiac Killer was a devoted theatre attendee, or he was an actor himself. Given the lack of access to information at the time, it's likely the latter; For him to be able to write the lyrics so accurately it's likely he had a script or had the song memorized. It kind of freaked me out because Ko-ko is the role I played in the Mikado many years ago, so the song was instantly recognizable.
The "Dr Seuss" part of that one letter is actually a direct copy of a song from the 1870s play called "The Mikado" called "I've got a little list" there are multiple versions of the song as it gets updated every decade the version the zodiac wrote is almost identical to the original song except for the fact that "banjo player" was originally the n-word
They should do a follow up episode just talking about all of the prominent suspects, ive yet to see anyone do one that’s super detailed and there are so many other interesting suspects like Ross Sullivan, Sandy, Ed Edward ect.
If the Zodiac Killer was alive today he would 100% be a Reddit moderator.
Nope they’re all little fruits he actually had the balls to do that and mock everyone and never get caught lmfao
@@jabronisauce6833 Oh yuck, no way you’re singing his praises and saying he’s got balls
@@hectichive889all I'm saying is he's a better person than a reddit mod or a 4chan jannie
ain't no way you're saying that a reddit mod is worse than a serial killer
The edginess. People actually died let's not seriously compare them to a reddit mod.
I never knew how pathetic the Zodiac was. "Please, wear my buttons or I'll shit and piss my pants, and cry myself to sleep."
Maybe we rename him the nasty button killer?
It does kill any ominous nature to the guy doesn’t it
You'll find that a lot of serial killers are pathetic assholes. BTK gave himself his own nickname and practically begged newspapers to use it. Wrote dog shit poetry too.
@@solalabell9674 what if instead of giving them cool names we just call them like Fart Smeller Killer instead so they'd stop
@@chopmopjeter18 Penelope's song about it is pretty accurate tbh, they're just a bunch of pricks bragging about winning a game nobody knew they were playing in the first place
ah yes, i love how this podcast is about cold cases, cults, and morbid topics in general and for hosts we have the 3 most dangerous types of ppl in the entire world: a florida man, an australian man and an Appalachian man.
it truly gives them more credit to talk ab those kind of stuff.
Reminder that Charlie is a Florida Man who WILLINGLY chooses to stay in Florida meaning he's even more crazy
@@sparktaylor8489 A Florida Man loses his strength if he strays too far away from his source of power, this is certified Florida Man lore.
as an australian, based
There's too much power being combined here.
@@queuedjar4578right! Where else are they gonna get their fent fix
I mean, source of power
I’m convinced that Charlie is just playing RuneScape like 70% of the time
He’s definitely alt-tabbed
Probably handling business stuff, when you've got your fingers in as many pies as Charlie it's impossible to carve out 3 hours of the day uninterrupted.
@@Wohlfeshouldnt spread himself thin then. Not an excuse for not being present. 3 hours every 2 weeks isnt a huge commitment for someone who stays home 24/7.
@@Nova32xassumptions are the mother of all fuck ups
Can't say I blame him
“There you are, sitting on your couch listening to a podcast when all of the sudden, you’re the zodiac killer. You didn’t want this, you didn’t ask for this. But there it is”
"Why did you choose this couch to sit on? That's only for you to know."
Is that an Extra Credits reference or am I looking too deep into that? xd
@@LooneyLei you are correct
😂
@@LooneyLei Extra chromosomes
I love how the two adult themed sponsors were covered by Charlie and Jackson so Isaiah could cover AG1 instead 😭🙏
Wendigoon is the only one who has a sponsor for ag1 and has never sponsored the other companies cause he keeps his sponsors with what his beliefs are he will only sponsor pg companies usually and has a long history with ag1
@@DaddiDrako I mean, Adam and Eve are biblical figures, so it kinda fits with his beliefs through a technicality lmao
@@queuedjar4578have you read the bible? There's all kinds kinky shit in there. I mean there's one dude that gets whipped by a leather Dom before they threw him on the saint Andrews cross. After care was garbage tho so after 3 days he left the scene
@@queuedjar4578exactly the problem, it's an adult company basically mocking the Bible
@@queuedjar4578yeah adam and eve sexually it’s obv mockery
The case being referred to around 16:53 is actually super fascinating and a little sad - the guy (Ryan Waller) wasn't just talking to the police after a robbery with a bullet in the head - they were actively interrogating him for over 6 hours because they thought he'd committed the robbery and shot his girlfriend and refused him any medical attention despite having multiple head wounds and a messed-up eye. He ended up losing part of his brain, his eye, and having constant seizures for the next year before he finally died.
just a little sad
Police being incompetent? Say it ain't so!
@@JudgeNicodemusOh, yeah
Alright
Somebody's Heine'
Is crowdin' my icebox
Somebody's cold one
Is givin' me chills
Guess I'll just close my eyes
Oh, yeah
Alright
Feels good
Inside
Flip on the telly
Wrestle with Jimmy
Something is bubbling
Behind my back
The bottle is ready to blow
Say it ain't so
Your drug is a heartbreaker
Say it ain't so
My love is a life taker
I can't confront you
I never could do
That which might hurt you
To try and be cool
When I say
This way is a waterslide away from me
That takes her further every day
So be cool
Say it ain't so
Your drug is a heartbreaker
Say it ain't so
My love is a life taker
Dear daddy, I write you
In spite of years of silence
You've cleaned up, found Jesus
Things are good, or so I hear
This bottle of Steven's awakens ancient feelings
Like father, stepfather
The son is drowning in the flood
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Say it ain't so
Your drug is a heartbreaker
Say it ain't so
My love is a life taker
@@yungvolio7853damn I just got weezer’d 😢
@@shoafymusicGET WEEZERED NERD
He wasn't meticulous or methodical. All of his kills were horribly executed. It's shocking the reputation he garnered from this.
I agree. And if the media never made shit like this high profile we wouldn’t have a bunch of nobody wack jobs trying to be somebody by killing the innocent but too late now
Yeah I'm not gonna lie, the zodiac seems less like a "harbinger of death" and more like some jack ass trying to get attention
Gives us professionals a bad name, he can’t even spell good
@@risottopose9970 Unfortunately, the serial killer industry has been like that for a while now. There's a lack of regulation, so pretty much any sucker that takes a life can claim killer status. It's a damn shame.
@@risottopose9970is that a Jojos reference???
I will never blame someone for not stopping to help, and instead getting someone that can help better. That is usually the most effective kind of help you can give in an emergency if you are not trained. Thankfully in this day and age we have phones that can call more effective help quickly, but before that access, of course I won't blame someone for doing the safest thing for themself or let alone their child.
This! And being a woman sometimes people fake needing help to kidnap for a list of possible reasons. I will keep driving and call whoever needs to be called for them instead. Sucks we live in that kind of world but that’s just where we are
Based. If you're significantly weaker or unarmed you won't do any good and will probably make the situation worse by doubling the victim count.
Women in CCW states PLEASE go take the course and protect yourself and your children. When seconds count, police can be minutes away.
@@BigOunce1233 I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
@@tobi_talks_2_much Same. What's your go-to? I love my 43X
Idk man I don’t think I’d be able to live with myself
Wendigoon is the most sane appalachian man I've ever seen and I've lived in the mountains my whole life.
ive also lived in Appalachia my whole life and can attest to that. I mean who else is from Appalachia? Steve Harvey, thats who.
@@kiriliri me
@@kiriliri Brad Douriff, the voice actor famously known for his role in Chucky, is from West Virginia. I don't know why i know that, but he seems like a pretty sane individual
Thats the problem. The sane ones leave lol
@@contentcop It's because it was in the american capitalists interest to fck over the area. They betrayed the American worker for cheap foreign labor. Leaving the whole area dead to the world. I think 1/6 kids are food insecure in America and 1/3 of them are in Appalachia where their only guaranteed meals were school lunches that local politicians love taking away. Its a disgusting state of affairs. I have a respect for anyone who makes it out, and compassion for those who were born and left to die of a disease of despair.
Briefs sponsor to look good on bed, toys sponsor to get freaky on the bed and ag1 to stays healty on the bed lmao
I listen to red thread while I sleep as well
stay healthy*
Good points haha
@@LeastNationalistPoletouch grass*
@@LeastNationalistPoleOh my god, he's the Zodiac Killer.
Ted Cruz goes wild in this episode.
Underrated comment.
@@4noctua6the video was posted 30 minutes ago I don’t think anyone’s really rated them yet
I rate this comment as being under.
i feel like i was a part of history now hearing this
Ted Cruz was born in 1970. Too young to be the killer.
Real important thing to bring up about that guy who was in the interrogation with a bullet in his head: he absolutely did know he got shot in the head, the policeman fully ignored the fact that he told him that multiple times and refused to get him any help for the entire interrogation. They believed he was the one who killed his girlfriend (who was also shot in the break in, I don't remember if the break in was a robbery or not) so they treated him like absolute trash the entire time. The cop kept insisting that he "wouldn't be talking to them" if he had a bullet in his brain, and allegedly if he had gotten help before the interrogation he likely would've survived. As far as I'm concerned, that cop's a straight up murderer and should've been thrown in jail with the people who put the bullet in the victim.
Shocker. American cops are the largest organized crime syndicate in the country.
"Nobody ever made a song called 'fuck the fire department" - Snoop Dog (I know but he's got a point)
I mean to be honest being shot in the head and living isn’t really common so I can see why they thought he was lying.
To be fair, if the partner of a dead woman was found at the scene of the crime talking about how he was shot in the head while being fully lucid, I'd be very suspicious too if I was an officer. I wouldn't believe him either.
@coinwater8511 If you've seen the interview, fully lucid is a *big* stretch.
Watched the interview on Explore With Us, absolutely devastating...
the killer became popular because people love a good puzzle, then when the puzzle was solved everyone was just like, "oh..okay, so he's just a little piss boy.." and i'm here for it
Actually, (yup I'm gonna be that person) there is still one more letter that no one is be able to decipher. To this day, one letter is still just a bunch of symbols.
I love the "ricky when I catch you ricky" energy that builds up toward the police throughout this episode because the way cases with obvious conclusions are CONSISTENTLY fumbled has me frothing at the mouth
"After 6 months, they searched the pile of skulls and found skulls" I believe is the quote about how police _actually_ operate vs. the media portrayal.
If you're talking about something like CSI, then yeah. That shit is 100% fiction. Police are normal people after all
For real. It's so fucking sad that I barely even noticed when they said that because it's so unsurprising here in the USA. Large city police departments feel like they operate as organized crime.
crine
Love that Windigoon is our local gun/Christian expert, the way he explains it in such lay-man's terms is so useful to the case.
I can't forget to highlight Jackson's ability to research and organize. Also Moist's pop culture knowledge. I love this colab
It's crazy how in America it's normal to think "oh he's Christian, he might be knowledgeable in guns as well". Or to think it's totally normal for a Christian to be very well versed with guns. As a non-American it's crazy to see
@@mao7American here, We don’t assume that just because someone’s Christian that they are knowledgeable on guns, tons are completely against weapons in general lol, Op was just grouping what wendigo is most knowledgeable on, not saying those two things correlate
@@Icegrip12 fair. I misunderstood. However seeing a lot of news and imagery of "churches" from your country straight up preaching guns to their members is nothing short of horrifying.
@@mao7 most people who own guns and are proud of it are conservative and there's a large overlap of conservatives and christians so you're not wrong. guns are more of a status symbol for them despite what they say lol.
@@ollieollieoxenfree3246you obviously just dont like guns. you dont need to be mad at people that like guns. imo its better to have one in the home and be trained than not 99% of the time. especially in america.
YES YES YES YES, Jackson be like "you wake up to find a zodiac sign on your hand and a dead person besides you, you look in the mirror.. and you realize you're Ted Cruz!!!!"
It's like the shia labeouf song, but Ted Cruz
Getting slight perfect blue vibes
"You look over... you see a human, holding a really loud bird..." made me SHOUT-laugh. Omfg 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My mother grew up in the Bay Area, she was a teen when the zodiac killer was around, she told me how on edge she was and how scared she was when she worked late night shifts. I’ve been to the lake in Vallejo and it was an eerie feeling knowing what happened there.
53:39 Speech therapist here- you’re thinking of TBI induced expressive aphasia. There are a few aphasias that result in a loss of writing ability, but you’re correct in that it isn’t necessarily connected with a loss of cognitive and/or comprehension ability unless there are injuries to other parts of the brain in addition to Broca’s area.
People like you are how I learned to pornounce the letters G and R. Thank you for all the help you do.
@@JacobCunningham-ml7gg it's pronunced Jii and now that you say it idk how to pronounce R but it does start with A
Looks like he defaults to spelling words based on how they sound rather than how they're actually spelled out. Reminds me of how I used to spell things while learning English
@@1RED1That would make sense for the and z's and s's.
@@JacobCunningham-ml7gg Super wholesome
Do the intro from the perspective of the car. "You're parked in a forest, there are two teenagers inside of you."
No, creep.
@@JordonSnyder-u6bIt's a sense of humor. Laugh and move on. It's not that deep. If you don't like the joke, still just move on. Comedy is subjective?
😂😂
Skeet Hanson needs to have a word with this vehicle
It was funny.
This but in the Cars movie universe
Never thought I would see Wendigoon with a Adam&Eve sponsor I love this channel
Adam & Eve were in the Bible, stupid
Fake Christian
Adam and Eve were a proper married couple and we'l just assume the same for all their customers 🤣
@@mere7583😂😂😂😂 you kids didn’t even watch the video. It was Charlie 😂😂😂😂
Yeah I thought it would be funny if they made Isaiah do that ad read. Definitely seems to fit more with Charlie tho
"I almost spelled bussy there" lmao jackson 💀
If he wrote "school bussy" it... would have been topical for Allen in a really fucked up way
Damn I know most people are here from Isaiahs or Charlies fanbase but Jackson is such a good host he's carrying this podcast. His writing is very cool too
Imagine being in such a horrible place in your life with mental illness and such that you feel to commit “s u i c i d e” and you just so happen to get rid of your schizophrenia. What a freaking miracle…whoever actually lived that hopefully is still alive and doing much better in life.
Fail or succeed, you won't have to deal with schizophrenia anymore.
@@LunarLocusttrue
Lead poisoning causes a wide variety of symptoms. One of the most common is a dampening of one’s mental ability and the dulling of one’s thoughts. So essentially, he overdosed himself with a 1920s treatment for “the Crazies” with a bullet instead of a hypodermic needle. Wild asf to think about.
I heard of case where a guy essentially cured his p*dophilia like that. He either got clocked or shot in the head, and that somehow scrambled his brain just enough to not be attracted to minors anymore. His personality drastically changed, mind you, but he seemed fine afterwards. It seemed like he had some sort of brain inflammation that caused him to have weird impulses, and somehow that fixed it
When Wendi was talking about that, I couldn’t help but think that he was referencing Fight Club as if it was a real case
1:11:30 to be clear, "multiple personality disorder" is still recognized by the dsm, but has been changed to disossiative identity disorder to better describe it with updated symptoms and information (including the fact that it is not at all a violent disorder except possibly when the person is threatened)
Yes people with DID are far more likely to be victims
It’s funny that it states that they may become violent when threatened as if that isn’t normal behavior for anyone
Wouldn't be surprised if it was something like "We should put that caveat incase someone is an asshole when they talk shit and get hit"@@zwurka6826
@@zwurka6826i think it’s more in reference to feeling threatened over minuscule things and/or think they are being threatened due to trauma response, when in reality they are not
@@spookthesam Yes, that is a symptom of trauma in general, particularly PTSD. Which, well, DID is theorized to be caused by childhood trauma, so it tracks!
This episode reminds me of a long standing joke I had with a friend who passed (RIP Keifer). We used to joke about opening a restaurant called the Zodiac Griller with a bunch of different serial killer themed meals.
Where I live, there's a restaurant chain called "Serial griller" and the menu is based off of horror characters as well as Serial killers. Very cool place with good food
Pretty sure they have an item on the menu called “the zodiac”
@@OkayImSickI’ll take a John Wayne Gacy burger hold the handcuffs and a BTK fries.
@@cotati76”I would like to request this for my last meal… of the day, until I eat breakfast tomorrow.”
I have a friend named Keifer who passed as well
I'm actually 100% convinced he put his name in those letters...but in an impossible to guess way, like multiplying the 2th and 4th letter of every other word starting with c divided by 6 and moving the result 2 letters (a->c) or something dumb like that
His ego was waaaay too big to not attempt something like that
I would believe that with him making it impossible, a.k.a. "I made stuff up just so I can seem smart". What I found most frustrating besides the fact he makes the most ridiculous and horrendous 'puzzles', is that we would likely have to use ai to even crack down what name he gave in that 'cipher'. 😒
A lot of people overestimate the lethality and incapacitating effect of handguns rounds. Particularly in an era where modern style hollow point/expanding ammunition was uncommon, FMJ handgun rounds tend to just poke narrow holes (without the more 'dramatic' stuff that happens at rifle velocities). If an important organ isn't hit, the person shot may not even realize they're wounded under the effects of adrenaline.
To paraphrase Clint Smith:
"People shot with handguns run away. People shot with rifles fall down."
Or alternatively:
"Pistols poke holes in people. Rifles poke holes through people. At the right range and with the right load, shotguns will physically remove a chunk of your opponent and throw it on the ground."
This wasnt as bad as a shot I'm sure, but I fell running late to school and then ran a track field distance to class before I discovered that I couldn't bend my ankle and was bleeding pretty bad from the knee. Adrenaline is no joke
As someone who is dyslexic, I do have difficulty spelling words, however, I misspell words differently almost every time. I’ve misspelled the same word 3 different ways in the same sentence so probably not dyslexia.
Probably just can't spell
You're just stupid brother
Did you learn by sightwords or phonics as a child? I guess it really makes a difference.
Umm, just spell them correctly?
@@MamadNobari I know right and homeless people should just buy a house, impoverished should just get a million dollar loan, and I should just stop covering myself in petrol and lighting myself on fire every time a personified cartoon animal beats me in a game of blackjack🤦🏼♂️ it's not that simple you dunce
I didn't look at Jackson's notes last week, but wow he did an amazing job preparing for this podcast. 33 pages, with pages cited. Hat's off to Jackson for his diligence!
His notes are the kind of notes I want to have if/when I ever start making content
Jackson is fuckin wild like that. When he's doing show notes, he goes fuckin all in, all the nuance and considerations right there.
But sometimes, he'll have these one off thoughts where he has like, two data points, and come to the most outrageous conclusions (*ahem*, Final Solutioning pitbulls, for instance).
Real duality with Jackson
@@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385 hey it’s not like everyone else under Charlie’s umbrella does the same thing too lol
@@wolfiemuse
Y'know, ya ain't wrong
😊
The Zodiac is like the real world equivalent of The Riddler: a guy who loves to troll the police with cyphers and puzzles, is super grandiose in the letters he writes and thinks he’s so much smarter than everyone else.
Except The Riddler slightly has more maturity than Zodiac. Even Jim Carrey's Riddler had that bit more maturity to him.
They kind of played into that similarity in the newest Batman movie, I believe. The riddler’s costume is very similar to the zodiac killer’s.
Don’t flatter him
The riddler in the new movie is just the zodiac killer but actually a genius instead of a wannabe one
atleast the Riddler leaves clues and riddles that actually mean something. Riddler actually plays the game and gives you a way to win.
Jackson and Isaiah: Chitting AND Chatting
Charlie: （゜ー゜）
"The Zodiac Killer" sounds too cool. Can we please collectively switch to "Mr. Meth Pit" and perhaps name a fictional national park after him (The Mr. stands for Mystery)
You're right, that was atrocious. I'm ready to atone for my sins.
Just wanted to point out that MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) wasn't declared as not a disability it was just renamed to DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) to better represent how the illness actually works. Heard it mentioned and wanted to clear any confusion about that.
YES! Thank you! As a DID system I’m so happy someone pointed it out!
That shits fake too lol, the only people that claim to have it are 14 year old discord users
@@guyferrari8124 Actually is a real thing. It's a rare disorder that's typically found in people who were sexually abused in their childhoods long-term. It's a psychological defense mechanism that allows the individual to detach from the trauma.
@@itsbinxbroit doesn't really have to be trauma from sexual abuse It can be from other related trauma aswell. It can be both physical abuse aswell It just depends on which stage in life this happens to a person which happens to be around the time your a small child
@@scarlet5122 It's also not 100% confirmed that severe trauma is absolutely necessary for DID to form. And if it does require trauma, it's just.. pretty much any kind of trauma. Seeing a horrific crash, getting severely emotionally abused, witnessing a violent crime, etc. The more I research and speak to fellow systems, the more it becomes clear that psychologists don't *actually* understand what the deal is with DID and OSDD. We have a *massive* range of differing experiences and origins. And that's fine, humanity is always learning more and more. But it absolutely needs to be studied much more.
Why are they starting to all look like eachother??? 🤣This is actually so silly
Didn't notice until now, thxs
CritigoonOnPC
The three forms of Jesus
The father (charlie), the son (Jackson), and the holy spirit (papagoon)
We're reaching the White Boy Singularity
I love these reoccurring guests! Maybe you should talk to them about having a permanent spot
Going over cases where people survived head injuries would be a cool idea for an episode. There's a lot of weird cases out there like; people being struck by lighting and suddenly being proficient at advance math, as well as, one case of a man who OD on acid and was able to speak fluently in another language once revived. The brain is weird.
One thing I'd say about why the police didn't release stuff about Leigh is that in cases where the prime suspect is deceased, and there's no chance of justice being served, the police will weigh the possible damage vs benefit of releasing their information on him. If Leigh has living relatives, they might not want to release that he was the killer, as being related to a famous serial killer could adversely affect those relatives, who are entirely innocent.
With the taxi driver, I think an another scenario could also be the driver made a remark or joke about him being the Zodiac Killer. An offhand remark just making small talk about the story, inflated by his ego & paranoia at the time could definitely lead to him believing he’s “onto him”.
17:30 I had a buddy, who's brother, also a friend, earlier in life, put a bullet through his chin out if the top of his head. He survived, later got married had a kid, everything. He had a dent and scar on his head, otherwise you would have never known.
I wonder what happened- was it like a hunting accident or something? No hate to your buddy tho just curious 😂
@@vanillamilkisgudI'm assuming a failed trip down the sewer slide made him appreciate life more.
Charlie is the friend that loves to listen to his friends talk, Isaiah is the friend who loves talking and always knows what happening, and Jackson is the kind of friend who has the facts straight and in graved in his mind.
Thank y'all so much for covering this case! Buzzfeed Unsolved did this years ago but they didn't go nearly this in depth and they didn't provide as many comprehensive images to help with understanding. I've learned a lot more this go around. Thank you!
What if his plan the whole time was to just build his brand to sell more buttons?
It was about the buttons all along.
Man, Isaiah and Charlie were great guests! Hope we get them again soon!
21:56
This is why people think that silencers are actually like those seen in movies. The gunshots were muffled, but someone about 800 feet away could hear them...
Yeah, of course they could hear it. They were only 800 feet away. A silencer CANNOT make a gunshot disappear. You'd be able to hear the gunshot from a silenced 9mm pistol a quarter mile away, at least. It may not register immediately as being a gunshot, but you would definitely hear it.
The Decibel scale is logarithmic, meaning that there's an integer representation of sound levels that are exponentially increasing as the distance to the sound decreased. Basically, in the logarithmic scale of dB, 3 points means the sound is 2 times as loud. 6 means that its 4 times as loud, and so forth.
A normal, unsuppressed 9mm pistol will be around 150-156 dB. A suppressed 9mm pistol will be around 128-135 dB at the same distance. A loud clap with your hands registers around 120-130 dB, depending on several factors. So what would you hear if someone clapped their hands loudly from 800 feet (about 267 yards; or a par 3 hole on a golf course) away? You'd hear it, but it'd be pretty muffled.
There's also a huge difference between firing a supersonic 9mm bullet or a subsonic round from a 9mm suppressed pistol. The supersonic round would have a sonic-boom between the muzzle and the target which is typically around the 135-140 dB range, regardless of using a silencer.
The main reason that people use silencers on guns is to negate the necessity for hearing orotection while shooting. It also makes gunfire less obtrusive for other people in tge immediate area. But what it doesn't do, however, is make the gunshot inaudible. In fact, hunting in many European countries means that you MUST use a silencer so that it doesn't disturb the leace of others or damage anyone's hearing.
We happen to be in the extreme minority with the extreme regulation of these firearm accessories in the US.
24:10
Here, Isaiah is mostly correct. I mean, a suppressed 5.56 (especially from an AR-15 where a lot of the sound near the shooter is coming from the ejection port since it's a gas-operated system) will be about as loud as a 22lr rifle without a silencer. As a dude who has shot thousands of rounds of 22lr, and a couple hundred more rounds from larger calibers without hearing protection, mostly unintentionally, (and who now has moderate tinnitus from it), it's not a huge deal. But when firing a bolt-action 22lr, you get much less noise at your ear than you would by firing a silenced 5.56 in an AR.
I've had days at the range firing 7.62 AKs and 5.56/6.8SPC/308 ARs where one earplug wasn't sealed (or even in) on accident, and it physically hurt. But I've shot thousands of rounds of 22 without ear pro which just felt kinda loud.
That's why I'm such a stickler for people wearing hearing protection or having a silencer now. It WILL preserve your hearing for longer.
And yes, the auditory "ringing" you feel/hear will stick around long after you're done shooting.
GAHLEE TAKE IT TO A PUBLISHER
Ain't nobody reading this fkn essay
@@icmycelium tell him lmao this is ridiculous
Bro out here speaking Yapanese
The bit around 1:48:00 is a song parody. "I've got a little list" from a light opera called The Mikado. It's a piece that's known to have it's lyrics changed for more relevant humor over time.
And Titwillow comes later.
I frickin knew it!! Family guy did a parody for that song. Stewie sings it!
I frickin knew it!! Family guy did a parody for that song. Stewie sings it!
@tsurani499 Seth Macfarlane was a theatre student and it really shows in early Family Guy. Lots of good musical parodies in there.
I knew it sounded familiar. Family Guy used this song in their 100th episode.
I'm only 5 mins in, and the post-intro banter has already earned that thumbs up. Good show boys!
Great show! I’m teaching a freshman seminar course now on The World of Forensic Science, and I will be playing this episode of the podcast to the class. What a great discussion on how forensics has evolved over the decades. Thanks!!
I was listening to this whole doing dishes at work and MAN how'd I nor realize I was listening to it for 2 and a half hours. We had a lot of dishes
I suffered a head injury, golf club to the forehead, and it heavily impacted my ability to read. It was around 7th grade and I had to spend time relearning how to read. Sometimes I'll think a word is a different word then it is, or just seems like not a word at all, but its not outright like seeing a different letter. Also have difficulty reading books because by the time I get to the next page, I've forgotten what I just read. On the other hand, I became much faster with my learning after that, especially anything analytical. Head trauma sure is the devil's coin flip.
im halfway through the episode but it's driving me mad that they can't understand he's spelling everything phonetically. For me, I'm very well read, and well verbally educated but rarely saw the words I saw/heard at the same time (and still want to spell it "febuary" because that's how it's pronounced). I don't have dyslexia but do have a speech impediment, so I quite often have to visualise the word in my head in a phonetic way so I can say it the right way.
Dunno ... if you were wanting to brag about the 'worst' / 'inner self', would you bother or even want to correct your most personal brain/language inner workings??
Had a park ranger that would tell us during class that every invasive plant we killed had to serve us in the afterlife. I know what he was referring to now.
What
@@iLinkedsomething about afterlife I think
Zodiac weirdo claimed his victims would serve him in the afterlife.
No buttons though 😂😂😂 haha
Just found this today and this is my new nighttime podcast to help make me pass out
Wendi is off the hook with his laughter 😂😂😂 I love his over excitement 😂❤
doing the opening in the perspective of a tree would actually be so good because of the saying "If trees could talk"
Damn you’re right. That does sound cool.
Or a fly, on the wall...
I think the mispellings and the cyphers go hand in hand. He leaves the mistakes there on purpose, and then the cyphers would still be mispelled, but would be consistent enough? Since the symbols can be tricky
The misspellings are there to hide another clue that is only accessed with the word
solar. So called ciphers arent ciphers, these are all english like versions of arabic, and you solve them with google translator.
Just one point, The Pace Postcard is not Dr Suess it's quoting Gilbert and Sullivan's song 'I've got a little list' from 'The Mikado.' Which means the Zodiac was educated enough to be familiar with Victorian English musical theatre.
I was thinking this and with how well he was able to cypher in that era, he would have had to be educated and intelligent, maybe crazy, but smart.
I’ve grown up all my life in Vallejo California, I discovered Charlie and wendigoon all by myself, and now to see this come to fruition is awesome
I also lived in Arthur Lee Allen’s house on 32 Fresno street, I think the direction of my stay was from maybe 2010-2014? Maybe shorter I’ll ask my mom in the morning
I was thinking that, on the Halloween greeting card thing, the symbol next to the 'Z' and the zodiac symbol was him showing that all 3 symbols are the same. They all stand for the letter Z. Maybe not tho, the guy is off his rocker. You guys are awesome!
I love this podcast, and also Creepcast. I also love how Jacksons cam looks like he sits in a darkroom to develop analog photos or something lol
lol I'm here for starting the episodes as random people/objects/animals. props to Jackson, so impressed with how thorough and detailed he is! my new favorite podcast.
My three favorite cryptids talking about Ted Cruz is a wild time.
One of these "coinceedences" that stud out to me was the fact that Allen didn't buy the Zodiac watch imself, it being a gift from is mom right beefore it all started. i wander what his relasionship with his mom was like
ps- sorry for bed english
This just has to be bait
Has anyone thought to take all the misspelled words, take out the specific letters that are misspelled, put them all together to try to see if it’s another cipher?
Type the word solar at the back of the misspelling and search again.
Zodiac is by far one of the most intriguing cases I’ve read about, and I am so hyped to see these 3 tackle it
"good things come in packages" is a pretty badass ad slogan for meundies lol
Literally watched creep cast while waiting for a new red thread, episode finished. Then I got this notification for this. ITS A GOOD OPENING AT WORK NOW THANK YOU
I lived in the same county as Gary Poste for most of my life, and that place is definitely where someone with a history could go and be forgotten. There are a lot of remote areas and neighbors typically don't ask questions, especially the further out of town you got. I remember hearing about the Russian Mafia being tied to bodies that were dumped in New Melones, so clearly the place had a certain "disposal" allure that's just a few hours from the bay area. It was a wild place to live!
I love how thorough you guys are with every episode and the content; it really helps reframe a lot of information that would be otherwise hard to chew through and incredibly entertaining and informative! I always look forward to a new episode, keep up the fantastic work guys!
That dragon letter made me believe that if the Zodiac killer was around today, he 100% wouldve made a "Deez nuts" joke
The reason why the talk show calls were hoaxes was because it was confirmed the person called 35 times, but only 12 (I think) were on air. Police also traced the call and it was from a patient from a mental hospital. They also questioned one of the people who did hear the Zodiac killers voice, AKA the police dispatcher who answered the call when he first reported himself, explained that the voice that called wasn't the Zodiac's voice and that his voice was more lower than who made the call. Going back to the fact, the Zodiac himself said in his next letter that he wasn't the one who called.
So how did a mental patient know about the Zodiac Killer? In a mental institution they limit your stimuli. They wouldn't have allowed newspapers with news about murders and they wouldn't allow them to watch that type of content on TV. They even limited access to cartoons because they were too violent. A mental patient would not have known what the case was all about.
24:08 the best firearms interview I’ve ever seen was a ex marine explaining the role of a suppressor. Wendy is %100 percent correct, the suppressors goal is to eliminate the flash. The sounds is dampened but with standard rounds you’ll still hear that initial ignition.
Suppressors definitely peel off how far the sound travels More so than the sound near the gun as well.
I believe the US Marine Corps infantryman are all issues a suppressor now for that exact reason. Imagine in a night raid knowing you're getting shot at but can't see where tf it's coming from. Also the acoustics make it hard to determine where the round was shot from by sound.
@@BigOunce1233also in a combat zone you need to be able to hear stuff, so reducing hearing damage is a very useful thing.
RUclips recommended Red Thread to me last week and I've so far seen all of the episodes. So glad to see another one is out!
“What does it take to finish off a man?” -Charles White
Isaiah, "Wendi-geeking" out over gun facts is amazing.
I always thought the cab driver theory that made the most sense was that somehow a conversation about zodiac killer was had and cabbie may have said Z was a coward and failure Z lost it
You guys have produced this very well. The audio quality and volume balances is usually very poor in most RUclips videos so its just great to hear!
Totally agree + Love takanaka 😂❤
Honestly love the long format, this is getting me through college classes on a Saturday
Am I mistaken or did these guys get through talking about the Zodiac Killer for almost 2 hours and no one made a Ted Cruz joke?
i truly believe the typos were so the codes couldn’t be brute force cracked but also to give continuity between them as a “you’re on the right path cracking this one”
1:11:15 Correction: He's right that Multiple Personality Disorder is not in the current DSM-5 anymore, but that's because it's been replaced with Disassociative Identity Disorder, which is a much more accurate description of what happens compared to calling it MPD. It's still very difficult to diagnose though.
If this wasn’t mentioned, it should have been.
i was so caught off guard when he said that....
17:36 There is also a case like that in Colombia, a man was shot right next to his nose, he bled out and all but survided, only losing movility of his legs as is to this day still alive.
Fun Fact, the movie Dirty Harry is actually based on the Zodiac Killer. The main antagonist Scorpio is loosely based on him, and it takes place in the San Francisco Bay Area
If only the San Francisco police department had a Dirty Harry, we wouldn't be talking about this unsolved mystery. Even though there are MANY coincidences that point to Lee Allen, I had no clue about the bomb thing in his basement.
Jackson is killing it
Isaiah is such a good host he has such a wide range of information
The topics you guys have covered on the Red Thread lately i am really educated on and usually that would deter me from watching a video about them but i LOVe your guys commentary so much. Its so funny while also giving new information i didnt know about before. I get so excited when i see new posts. THANKS GUYS I CANT WAIT TO WATCH WHILE DOING MY HAIR AND MAKEUP!!!!!
Wendigoons laugh is EVERYTHING!!! This podcast is my new favorite❤
I think so too 😊
Thanks Jackson for sharing what you wear. I'm one step closer to role-playing my favorite Aussie man
The zodiac was born in the perfect time to do what he was doing, but now with today’s technology and everyone’s recording everything with their high-quality iPhones. He would’ve not been able to get away with it at all. 😂
The tech industry really replaced the working man serial killer
@@Originalchilithe iphone killed the serial killer
Funny how you still have many unsolved murder.
whoa whoa whoa. around 1:05:35 Isaiah says something like "the DSM-5 no longer recognizes multiple personalities as a thing" while it's no longer referred to as "multiple personalities," it has been updated to Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and is absolutely something still recognized by the DSM-5
Zodiac (2007) is one of the best mystery thrillers
The Zodiac case has fascinated me, but I've never watched that movie. I need to change that.
@@Macho_Fantasticoit is not overrated at all, I find that most people end up really liking it. There's a certain basement scene that lives on in thriller infamy in the best of ways.
One of my favorite movies ever🔥
I'd recommend Bong Joon Ho's Memories of Murder.
YALLLLLL
Watch the behind the scenes stuff.
They filmed on the OG murder locations and even planted new trees to match the environment of the time.
Oh these last 2 episodes have been DEEP and I love them. Keep it up boys
This is fucked up but imagine getting stabbed and having to pretend youre dead while the killer writes a fucking paragraph on your car, actually insane
Lmaooo
1:47:48 This is the List Song from Gilbert & Sullivan's 'The Mikado'. It is sung by Ko-ko, the Lord High Executioner, about the types of people he would be happy to execute, should the need ever arise. The Tit-willow reference later is also from one of Ko-ko's songs. So either the Zodiac Killer was a devoted theatre attendee, or he was an actor himself. Given the lack of access to information at the time, it's likely the latter; For him to be able to write the lyrics so accurately it's likely he had a script or had the song memorized. It kind of freaked me out because Ko-ko is the role I played in the Mikado many years ago, so the song was instantly recognizable.
I think the "poem" at 1:48:00 is a rewrite of the song "I've got a little list" from Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado.
Iceberg Boy, Aussie Apprentice and Prophetic Penguin.
Petition #1 to get a Bloody Mary episode!
Nah thats was creep cast
It's always hype to see a new red thread episode
The "Dr Seuss" part of that one letter is actually a direct copy of a song from the 1870s play called "The Mikado" called "I've got a little list" there are multiple versions of the song as it gets updated every decade the version the zodiac wrote is almost identical to the original song except for the fact that "banjo player" was originally the n-word
They should do a follow up episode just talking about all of the prominent suspects, ive yet to see anyone do one that’s super detailed and there are so many other interesting suspects like Ross Sullivan, Sandy, Ed Edward ect.