Thanks great video, I bought 3 one for each of my 3 hunting rifles after watching you explain. One one a Remington 783 same spot as you showed. Its now shooting tighter goups some touching. This gun had no modifications. What really surprised me was I put them on my wood stock Remington 700, one in 30-06 one in 338 Win mag. The apps were custom ozed with a trigger job 2 1\2#.and the barrelsvwere floated. The 30 06 shot good before the resonator. But with x ring deresonator, the gun groups tighter and pit them in the same hole. The same with the 338 W. The 700 s do not have pillerblocks replaced they are just fiberglass beded and barrels floated. I moved it around on the 30 06. And it shot the best 3/4" from the stock. The instructions say 3" from end of barrel. So you got play with it. I also reload. But over all I am happy with The x ring. It really helped the 338 W . the most. I had to adj the scope after I got it to group..to where I wanted it to shoot. The x ring did move my point of impact. So once you get it to group you may have to do some scope adjustments.
There is just something wonderful about a somebody with a southern accent explaining scientific or technical stuff. That was a really good explanation.
Appreciate your efforts! This was my original thoughts as well, but have been told by experts in the benchrest world you are actually looking to catch the barrel at the extreme cycle of the node not the center, the center is where the vibration would have the muzzle end of the barrel moving the fastest. Your sweet spot for bullet to leave the barrel would be when the muzzle is at it's slowest, which would be at either the top or bottom of a node. Extreme long distance shooters strive to eliminate all side ways grouping, leaning more to a slight verticle grouping because of velocity deviations. Adding any weight to the barrel will slow down the speed of vibration, hence improving accuracy. Finding a sweet spot by modifying reload characteristics on a naked barrel and then use a tuner to enhance those results will give you the absolute best results.
Thank you for your video. After watching I purchased a bull barrel de-resonator and installed it on my CZ 455 varmint 22lr. Improvement was immediate. Position it 3/4 inch from the front of barrel as directions state and started shooting one hole groups. Never needed to reposition it again. 1 MOA to 1/2 MOA groups at 50 yds. Not real pretty to look at but does the job! Also, I thought I may have to reposition for different brands of ammo. Found that is not necessary. Thanks again!
This was the absolute best explanation of this product I have seen to date! Finally someone that can explain this in a practical way, but by a scientific explanation that is actually understandable! Nice work! Thank you!!!
Excellent description. The idea is to get as close to a node as possible. And this will work on even the budget rifles. Which will tick off the tactical elite. So, bonus. I just picked up the Mossberg Patriot Predator in 7 mm PRC and if I get it tuned right, it will be my favorite all around hunting rifle from feral hog to whitetail to mule deer to the eventual elk hunt I am going to take. And do some long distance in the meantime with my $650 rifle. I am also putting it in an Oryx chassis. The problem I have noticed with Patriot and Predator stocks is the gap in the rear action screw guide. You can get 1 MOA at best but the rear of the action can move on you. I did that with my Mossberg Patriot .308 by putting it in an MDT (parent company of Oryx) chsssis and got it averaging 1 MOA. Well, I just bought some on Amazon. 3 for my regular rifles. 1 for my Mossberg MVP LR 308 with the bull barrel.
I just bought 2 from midway hoping to help accuracy in my savage 111 30-06 and Remington 700 cdl 243. The 700 shoots pretty good as is, shot a coyote with it this past hunting season at 300 yards but having trouble with my savage after missing some nice bucks past 200 yards. Trying to add weight to the buckstock to reduce recoil and working on lighting up the trigger down around 2 pounds. Going to give the 06 one more chance before I decide to trade it in for a lighter kicking 308, hope it works.
my understanding of this is that this is more or less the same thing that handloaders are trying to do but from the opposite end of the problem. They are (at least partially) trying to time the bullet to arrive at the end of the barrel at a calm point etc...whether they realize it or not
Thank you for clearly explaining this I recently bought a Savage Axis 2 in 308 I've watched a ton of videos on this rifle and all seem to have large groups and they try everything to shrink the group size but not one put one of these de resonators on the barrel and the Axis has a pencil barrel which I suspect vibrates more thanks again .
Awesome explanation bud, words cannot express how thankful I am that people like you are making informative videos. Thank you, looks like i'm going to be picking one of these bad boys up!
I have my deresonator about an inch and a half from the end of the barrel. I have a free floating barrel and that's the perfect place for my rifle. If you don't have a free floating barrel, it is suggested by the manufacturer to have it at an inch and a half from the end of the stock itself. Works for me! 🤓
Hi from Australia. Thank you for this terrific explanation. Richard Utting's vids also cover this subject and show how effective the Limbsaver is. Subscribed and liked!!
I just put one of these on my Smith Corona 1903a3 30-06 and I shoot Remington Core-Lokt 180grain bullets. 3/4" from the stock and I went from 1 1/3" groups to 3/4" groups at 150 yards! I am impressed with this product. My rifle was built in 1943, action and barrel are still original and if it can improve an old war 🐴 than I'm quite sure it will improve yours as well. At 300 yards I can shoot a 2" groups and that good enough for this hunter. THANKS LIMB SAVER!
I watch your dog drive videos all the time and even the shotgun load videos and here recently Ive been trying to learn about barrel harmonics and Ima tell you what it was giving me a head ache and most of the other videos mid as well been speaking another language. Then I come across this video and you explain it in 5 minutes and I get it lol Most other videos were 45 min long or so and I knew less at the end of the video than I did before I started. Anyways thanks for the great and simple explanation very helpful
I applaude your efforts in trying to describe a difficult topic. Just a couple of points A barrel will have a number of resonant frequencies The frequencies, in themselves are not important, but will depend on the length of the barrel. The chamber end of the barrel is fixed, hence will always be a node. The muzzle end of the barrel is not fixed, hence will be an anti-node. (Note the diagrams used in this video are in error as both ends of the barrel are shown as fixed. For a given resonant frequency A node (a point along the barrel that does not move) An antipode (a point That moves the most) IMHO the deresonator is placed at a point along the barrel to reduce the amplitude (size) of an anti-node that most affects the accuracy. There are multiple resonant frequencies for a barrel. The first (mode) is where the is one node at the chamber and one anti-node at the muzzle. Similar to ruler being held at one end against a table and flicking the free end. The first mode 1/4 wavelength -or 1/4 of a complete wave where one wave say starts with a node, rises to an anti-node, renduce to the next node, further reduces to a negative anti-node, then rises to the final node. This is one cycle or wavelength. The next mode(resonant frequency) sees the chamber end remaining as a node and the muzzle remaining as an anti-node, with an extra node and anti-node. Effective 3/4 wavelength. Successive nodes will add another half wavelengths ; 1/4, 3/4, 5/4, 7/4 and so on. The more wavelengths alone the barrel the higher the frequency and the smaller size (amplitude) the anti-nodes.
So, with a long enough barrel, the half reducing successive wave lengths will eventually diminish to the point of leveling out and align the chamber node with the barrel antinode?
"The muzzle end of the barrel is not fixed, hence will be an anti-node." Exactly, and even more - we are interested in the projectile leaving the barrel at maximum deflection, not zero. At maximum deflection, the perpendicular velocity of the muzzle end is the smallest, and the effect of differences in ammunition has the least effect on accuracy.
Hey you should send one of those to Ruger for thier mini 14!! they have been trying to get that thing to shoot strait for 30 years.I know you will relate to this temp this morning here 21 deg.opening day is sat. forecast for 70 deg and rain!!Thanks for the vid.God Bless.WORRY IS JUST A LACK OF FAITH!
OUTTA TIME but in parts of the Bible, the original Hebrew translates as "concern." "those of little faith" are not the same as "those of little concern." Read very carefully.
I know this is an old video, but I just saw it, my 1st reaction is that this is just like all the golf gadgets out their that are supposed to help you drive, chip and putt better if you use them, they are just a way of making money, someone will buy almost everything. My 2nd reaction was that like a placebo, if you believe it helps, it helps.
Good video Bubba. I think it's important to mention that this tool is not needed if one is handloading for their rifle and really understands how to "put the barrel to sleep." When the shot is fired, high velocity shock waves travel between the chamber and muzzle in a pulsing manner. We want the bullet to exit when the shock wave has reached the chamber end so the barrel is not "upset" at that exact moment. This is where the term "putting the barrel to sleep" came from. When this is done correctly (by fine tuning powder charges in the 1/10ths of grains and tuning bullet seating depth), bullet impact should be all horizontal with very little to no vertical dispersion. I can see the advantage of the limbsaver for guys who only use factory ammo or aren't into advanced reloading. In that case, the limbsaver is really the only way to change barrel harmonics other than changing rifle bedding.
Where would you think best place to put .It on rifle barrel and maybe just leave it I know shooting for different ammo like you explain. Was best . Thanks ! I bought one have not had a chance to try it out yet .
Hey guys I was wondering if you guys would post a turkey hunting video for thanks giving here in va we can hunt turkeys on thanksgiving day I do not know if that goes for the rest of the states, im prolly goin down to my hunt club for a few hours an see what happens... I would love to see a video on it, keep up the FANTASTIC work!!
This is an interesting topic. But the subject of barrel harmonics may be more complicated than the sine wave example you show (constant frequency). Kind of like moving your finger dynamically on a violin string (no frets) so there is a pitch change over time, the same thing may happen with barrel harmonics in that when the bullet is near the breech end the barrel harmonic is not the same as when the bullet is near the muzzle. Do you know if someone has actually measured the "frequency" of this vibration and demonstrated whether there is or isn't a change in pitch during bullet travel down the barrel? Do you know if someone has put more than one of these devices on the same barrel moving them independently to see if that makes any significant changes? (maybe one closer to the breech, the other closer to the muzzle?) Given how inexpensive these are, that might be interesting to test out. I'm sure there are many other factors that come into play. Thicker barrels will most likely have a higher overall frequency than thinner barrels, shorter barrels probably will have a higher pitch than longer barrels. I have no idea how complicated things could get with a tapered barrel. Bullet weight and velocity would also affect frequency (maybe also amplitude). But as I said -- very interesting topic. I suspect that some kind of "barrel tuning" will become more common the more it is studied.
I drove a mechanics truck that at certian rpms and certian road speeds would drive you nuts with the noise the gearshift would make vibrating so bad it sounded like pissed off rattle snake was riding along,then an old truck driver told me to put a section of heater hose down over it Wala the thing was quite silant I guess this deresinator thingy works on the same princaple!!
Hi Bubba The Limbsaver X-Ring Long shooter, haven't come to Danmark jet, is it possebly that you can make a test fine tuning shooting at 200 m. / 200 yard. at target's paper, and ajust out and ind ind resunans - so we can see what is happening ?2. quiestion - do there exist some thin like this to ½ Automatic 12 gauge shotgun, so the barrol dosen't lift when shouting.Best Regard - Henrik Friis at/Jaktliv
Ocb have you much experience with the newer mini 14 s because if you did I would think you're comment might change ,mine will hold a one inch groups at 100 yds with wolf cheapo ammo and my friends will keep in two inches not bad for a mini and a lot better than some stock at 15 s I've shot I've seen are that were lucky to keep in six inches at 100 yds then I've shot some of them with after market Barrell installed that were increadably accurate ! I have seen old minis that were bad like 4inch groups,I suppose barrel quality has to do with it but Ruger is hammer forging thier own tubes now,and seem to have it together I like the m14 call me old fashioned but the 308 or 7.62 is vastly Superior to the 5.56 that's a fact !!!
Thanks for the explanation, very interesting. One question: does it work on air-rifles? I'm not talking about one of them rubbish rifles that kick like a mule, but about a well designed, and well made AA TX200, AA Prosport, Feinwerkbau Sporter or a tuned HW97.
Thank you for your informative video. One question, how much effect will this devise help a rifle that has a premier barrel , bedded perfectly in a bench rest stock with a top end action? My thought is that this devise would be very helpful to a rifle with bedding problems or a barrel that has been stressed while being manufacrured, or any other many issues that may occur in the making of an off the shelf rifle ? And not so much with a custom built rifle. Either way, what a great product. Thank you.
If your reloading for that custom rifle you can change the load and head space to tune it, but with factory ammo you find the sweet spot and could get better
I just have one question. After you find a "sweet spot" with one type of ammo., does the accuracy change when you switch to a different ammo? I figure that different ammo would change the harmonics of the barrel thereby causing a change in accuracy and point of impact. Your answer will be appreciated, Thanks.
Yes......Every bullet weight/style, powder charge, round manufacturer, even a different manufacture of the primer can cause a difference. Maybe a small one but still a difference.
I had a complete shoulder replacement and am attempting to minimize the felt recoil. What can you recommend for me? I am gearing up and practicing for the grizzly hunt next year with my Winchester .416 Safari Express. Thank you for this site.
Dr. Mark, sorry, but there no free lunches when it comes to your situation. A 416 rem. is going to punish your shoulder whatever you do. There are some things you can do to reduce felt recoil though. a] increase rifle weight. b] install one and possibly two mercury recoil reducers in the buttstock. c] fitting a muzzle brake. d] porting your barrel e] fitting a purpose built "recoil taming" buttpad f] sewing a "recoil taming" patch into your shooting jacket [available from Brownells] . Either c] or d] are going to split your eardrums though. You could also consider a lighter load or even a different cartridge altogether that would be kinder to your shoulder. Good hunting and straight shooting!!!
Do you dial to different spots for the different loads you shoot? And does temperature and humidity (snow and rain) change anything that you notice? Good stuff. Thanks for the tips.
I think you want to place it close to the anti-node.....not the node. Notice....the slope of the curve at the node is very severe. Think of that "point" as to how the muzzle is directed. The slope of the curve is nearly flat at the very top or very bottom of the curve. A slight mis-alignment or "positioning error" of the de-resonator won't make much difference. At the anti-node, the curve is still relatively flat....but it will make a big difference at the node. A smidge to the right of the node and the muzzle points down....a smidge to the left of the node and the muzzle points up. At an anti-node.....you don't see such sensitivity, it's relatively flat. So....my point.....the vid you show is good.....but the "goodness" location you are chasing is the anti-node ( hill top or hill-valley).
Hi Bubba I have a ranger carbon wrapped tension barrel on my ruger 10/22 will a de-resonator work with this type of barrel as its fully suppressed ,great vid & I have ordered one to try
This may work with "Factory" rounds because they are pre-built. But for reloaders the same effect can be achieved by altering your bullet weight and/or charge. Still looks like an interesting concept though.
Sorry Bubba, but you actually want the bullet to exit your barrel at the anti-node. It will decrease the variance by 1/2! That will decrease your POI by 1/2. These things are great and I just wanted you to get the reasoning. There are slight variances in powder loads and other factors that affect the velocity. OK, say the bullet exits the barrel at the center of the node with a perfect load. If it is a little light then it will be a bit slower and not quite reach the center of the node. This will cause it to leave the barrel say 1/4 high from center. Same thing if it is faster, it will be, say 1/4 inch low. That is 1/2 inch. Now if you are at the lower antinode and it's a bit fast you are 1/4 inch high. If you are a bit slow you are 1/4 in high also! You just cut your POI by 1/2.
+Mars Rover Yes, you are right. You want the bullet to exit on the upside of the barrel whip. Having the bullet exit when it is "center" is the worst thing you could do
+Mars Rover Glad somebody pointed that out! Not sure I agree with your explanation of why it should leave at the anti-node. I think it is because of the angle of the barrel. When the bullet exits at an anti-node, the barrel is aligned parallel with the intended bullet path. If it leaves at node the barrel is at an angle to the intended path.
The angle of the barrel doesn't matter. As long as the POI is consistent. You then adjust your POA to match the POI. The smaller the deviation the better your groups. You can use either the upper or lower antinode. Both will cut your height error by 1/2. This is especially helpful on a lighter barrel. A stiffer barrel will be more accurate by it's very nature and then you need to dampen the effects of barrel movement to attain even higher accuracy.
The reason you want the bullet to leave the barrel at an antinode is because the sideways velocity of the end of the barrel is zero at the antinode. At the nodes, the velocity of the end of the barrel is at its maximum, and a very small deviation from the node point will put the end of the barrel somewhere other than where you want it.
I respectfully disagree as to when the bullet should leave. It should be almost opposite of your spot.. just before the upswing of the sine.. at the termination of 'barrel [whipping] energy'. Your 'De-r' will still work but the reason WHY is more accurate. Just sayin..
I can do you one better. Why you have the harmonics in your barrel. You stock is vibrating the barrel. Look at the gap and get a piece of paper and slide it between barrel and stock. Some rifles have a screw and spring to dampen the barrel vibration between stock. It's why people have glass beds put in stock too. The end of your stock is where it's at. The de-resonator on a free float part of barrel should be in middle. It's telling you its your stock. Its about the vibration or pressures the stock causes on different parts of the barrel. Sometimes even a gas block can cause vibrations. Powder primer burn speeds can cause harmonics too like on modern muzzle loaders.
A shaft collar does a better job. a two piece collar 1inch wide if steel has weight and also tunes better than a rubber tuner to dial in your pitch AKA harmonic balancer this is why they use metal tuner's on a guitar and not rubber everything is metal when you hit the perfect resonation it will continue to ring in perfect resonation thus harmonics are changed and tuned. You can buy the collars on eBay for ten bucks or less measure the barrel diameter and order shaft collar of the same size one piece works but two piece collars have no screw scratching your barrel. As with the limb saver move little by little as much as hundred thousand inch at a time to hit the sweet spot. The collar has more weight than the rubber and will balance better . Your harmonic balancers on a motor are steel not rubber it absorbs the shafts harmonics of the rods and crankshaft to run smoothly. This collar is not spinning your bullets are this tunes the barrel and projectiles in the barrel. Look up steel collar tuner here on RUclips see how it's done for a couple of dollars for a steel shaft collar from eBay
IMHO, this is an oversimplification of a complex dynamic effect with many variables at play. This de-resonator could improve a poorly set-up poor barrel barrel somewhat by damping only but will not help a good barrel that is indexed unless placed at the end of the muzzle. It would need to be heavier, too. An indexed barrel with a tuned compensator of sufficient weight will lower the impact point of marginally hotter high flying faster bullets that are fired at a higher angle due to a higher magnitude sign wave peak and earlier timing point that the faster bullet exits the barrel. The same barrel with slightly lower powered (slower ) shot variations exit the barrel at one of those null nodes. This set up I describe delivers tighter vertical groups by providing proportionate positive compensation for marginally hotter high flyers, but has inconsequential effect on already flat shooting rounds. Horizontal variation should not be a factor on a good indexed barrel properly setup even without a compensator.
Unfortunatly, this is mis information. You want to move the barrel weight(barrel tuner or a limbsaver), until your bullet exit on top of a curve, or at the bottom of a curve, where the barrel stands still. Preferrable in the top/bottom of a good node, to make the barrel positive compensate for velocity changes in your reloads (so they will hit in the same vertical placement every time). Not like shown in the video. In the video you show the so called nodes beeing where the barrel has the maximum movement. This is completely wrong and mis information. We have used tuners in centerfire and rimfire for many years. The way to tune a winning rifle in rimfire, is like i explained. If we would have done what this video is explaining, we would have the worst possible vertical spread, and also probably the worst groupings the rifle could produce.. Just some hard facts
Bullshit, its science. I use one and it works pretty good.
7 лет назад+2
Peter Para Bellum I've been a leo sniper for quite some time now and I'm here to tell you right now, IT WORKS!!!!!! No snake oil here. Do your own research, you'll see for yourself. Really this is all simple physics!!
Thanks great video, I bought 3 one for each of my 3 hunting rifles after watching you explain. One one a Remington 783 same spot as you showed. Its now shooting tighter goups some touching. This gun had no modifications. What really surprised me was I put them on my wood stock Remington 700, one in 30-06 one in 338 Win mag. The apps were custom ozed with a trigger job 2 1\2#.and the barrelsvwere floated. The 30 06 shot good before the resonator. But with x ring deresonator, the gun groups tighter and pit them in the same hole. The same with the 338 W. The 700 s do not have pillerblocks replaced they are just fiberglass beded and barrels floated. I moved it around on the 30 06. And it shot the best 3/4" from the stock. The instructions say 3" from end of barrel. So you got play with it. I also reload. But over all I am happy with The x ring. It really helped the 338 W . the most. I had to adj the scope after I got it to group..to where I wanted it to shoot. The x ring did move my point of impact. So once you get it to group you may have to do some scope adjustments.
Thanks Francis... it can be amazing on just how simple and effective this can be! Wade
There is just something wonderful about a somebody with a southern accent explaining scientific or technical stuff.
That was a really good explanation.
You mean unusual or rare. It does show that not all southerners are required to be ignorant of science. Unfortunately many choose to be.
Appreciate your efforts! This was my original thoughts as well, but have been told by experts in the benchrest world you are actually looking to catch the barrel at the extreme cycle of the node not the center, the center is where the vibration would have the muzzle end of the barrel moving the fastest. Your sweet spot for bullet to leave the barrel would be when the muzzle is at it's slowest, which would be at either the top or bottom of a node. Extreme long distance shooters strive to eliminate all side ways grouping, leaning more to a slight verticle grouping because of velocity deviations. Adding any weight to the barrel will slow down the speed of vibration, hence improving accuracy. Finding a sweet spot by modifying reload characteristics on a naked barrel and then use a tuner to enhance those results will give you the absolute best results.
Thank you for your video. After watching I purchased a bull barrel de-resonator and installed it on my CZ 455 varmint 22lr. Improvement was immediate. Position it 3/4 inch from the front of barrel as directions state and started shooting one hole groups. Never needed to reposition it again. 1 MOA to 1/2 MOA groups at 50 yds. Not real pretty to look at but does the job! Also, I thought I may have to reposition for different brands of ammo. Found that is not necessary. Thanks again!
Awesome! I love it when a plan comes together! Glad the video helped out buddy.
This was the absolute best explanation of this product I have seen to date! Finally someone that can explain this in a practical way, but by a scientific explanation that is actually understandable! Nice work! Thank you!!!
Thanks pal... glad the vid helped you out! Wade
Excellent description. The idea is to get as close to a node as possible. And this will work on even the budget rifles. Which will tick off the tactical elite. So, bonus.
I just picked up the Mossberg Patriot Predator in 7 mm PRC and if I get it tuned right, it will be my favorite all around hunting rifle from feral hog to whitetail to mule deer to the eventual elk hunt I am going to take. And do some long distance in the meantime with my $650 rifle. I am also putting it in an Oryx chassis. The problem I have noticed with Patriot and Predator stocks is the gap in the rear action screw guide. You can get 1 MOA at best but the rear of the action can move on you. I did that with my Mossberg Patriot .308 by putting it in an MDT (parent company of Oryx) chsssis and got it averaging 1 MOA.
Well, I just bought some on Amazon. 3 for my regular rifles. 1 for my Mossberg MVP LR 308 with the bull barrel.
I just bought 2 from midway hoping to help accuracy in my savage 111 30-06 and Remington 700 cdl 243. The 700 shoots pretty good as is, shot a coyote with it this past hunting season at 300 yards but having trouble with my savage after missing some nice bucks past 200 yards. Trying to add weight to the buckstock to reduce recoil and working on lighting up the trigger down around 2 pounds. Going to give the 06 one more chance before I decide to trade it in for a lighter kicking 308, hope it works.
Very simple to understand. Thank you!!!!
Great video, best explanation I have ever seen. Thanks
my understanding of this is that this is more or less the same thing that handloaders are trying to do but from the opposite end of the problem. They are (at least partially) trying to time the bullet to arrive at the end of the barrel at a calm point etc...whether they realize it or not
Thank you for clearly explaining this I recently bought a Savage Axis 2 in 308 I've watched a ton of videos on this rifle and all seem to have large groups and they try everything to shrink the group size but not one put one of these de resonators on the barrel and the Axis has a pencil barrel which I suspect vibrates more thanks again .
my pleasure!
Did it work? I have the same rifle and same problems with accuracy?
I love mines. Its very helpful and does what it claims!
An there it is... dont get any simple than that. Wade
.. you the man!
Awesome explanation bud, words cannot express how thankful I am that people like you are making informative videos. Thank you, looks like i'm going to be picking one of these bad boys up!
+AceGamingProductions My pleasure!! Good luck this season! Wade
I have my deresonator about an inch and a half from the end of the barrel. I have a free floating barrel and that's the perfect place for my rifle. If you don't have a free floating barrel, it is suggested by the manufacturer to have it at an inch and a half from the end of the stock itself. Works for me! 🤓
Hey thanks Bubba, that is the best explanation I’ve seen yet.
Hi from Australia. Thank you for this terrific explanation.
Richard Utting's vids also cover this subject and show how effective the Limbsaver is.
Subscribed and liked!!
I just put one of these on my Smith Corona 1903a3 30-06 and I shoot Remington Core-Lokt 180grain bullets. 3/4" from the stock and I went from 1 1/3" groups to 3/4" groups at 150 yards! I am impressed with this product. My rifle was built in 1943, action and barrel are still original and if it can improve an old war 🐴 than I'm quite sure it will improve yours as well. At 300 yards I can shoot a 2" groups and that good enough for this hunter. THANKS LIMB SAVER!
Yesser! They can be a game changer for sure Trevor! Wade
I knew these things worked but I did not know the theory behind how they worked, thanks Bubba.
I watch your dog drive videos all the time and even the shotgun load videos and here recently Ive been trying to learn about barrel harmonics and Ima tell you what it was giving me a head ache and most of the other videos mid as well been speaking another language. Then I come across this video and you explain it in 5 minutes and I get it lol Most other videos were 45 min long or so and I knew less at the end of the video than I did before I started. Anyways thanks for the great and simple explanation very helpful
My pleasure Deon!
very well made video chief
I applaude your efforts in trying to describe a difficult topic.
Just a couple of points
A barrel will have a number of resonant frequencies
The frequencies, in themselves are not important, but will depend on the length of the barrel.
The chamber end of the barrel is fixed, hence will always be a node.
The muzzle end of the barrel is not fixed, hence will be an anti-node.
(Note the diagrams used in this video are in error as both ends of the barrel are shown as fixed.
For a given resonant frequency
A node (a point along the barrel that does not move)
An antipode (a point That moves the most)
IMHO the deresonator is placed at a point along the barrel to reduce the amplitude (size) of an anti-node that most affects the accuracy.
There are multiple resonant frequencies for a barrel.
The first (mode) is where the is one node at the chamber and one anti-node at the muzzle. Similar to ruler being held at one end against a table and flicking the free end.
The first mode 1/4 wavelength -or 1/4 of a complete wave where one wave say starts with a node, rises to an anti-node, renduce to the next node, further reduces to a negative anti-node, then rises to the final node. This is one cycle or wavelength.
The next mode(resonant frequency) sees the chamber end remaining as a node and the muzzle remaining as an anti-node, with an extra node and anti-node. Effective 3/4 wavelength.
Successive nodes will add another half wavelengths ; 1/4, 3/4, 5/4, 7/4 and so on.
The more wavelengths alone the barrel the higher the frequency and the smaller size (amplitude) the anti-nodes.
So, with a long enough barrel, the half reducing successive wave lengths will eventually diminish to the point of leveling out and align the chamber node with the barrel antinode?
"The muzzle end of the barrel is not fixed, hence will be an anti-node." Exactly, and even more - we are interested in the projectile leaving the barrel at maximum deflection, not zero. At maximum deflection, the perpendicular velocity of the muzzle end is the smallest, and the effect of differences in ammunition has the least effect on accuracy.
Superb presentation.
It works just like a harmonic balancer on a car engine.I put one on a old rem 788 22-250 incredible difference 👍👍👍👍
Hey you should send one of those to Ruger for thier mini 14!! they have been trying to get that thing to shoot strait for 30 years.I know you will relate to this temp this morning here 21 deg.opening day is sat. forecast for 70 deg and rain!!Thanks for the vid.God Bless.WORRY IS JUST A LACK OF FAITH!
Yesser! same here. Rain and warmer temps forcast for the weekend.
OUTTA TIME but in parts of the Bible, the original Hebrew translates as "concern." "those of little faith" are not the same as "those of little concern." Read very carefully.
I know this is an old video, but I just saw it, my 1st reaction is that this is just like all the golf gadgets out their that are supposed to help you drive, chip and putt better if you use them, they are just a way of making money, someone will buy almost everything. My 2nd reaction was that like a placebo, if you believe it helps, it helps.
Good video Bubba. I think it's important to mention that this tool is not needed if one is handloading for their rifle and really understands how to "put the barrel to sleep." When the shot is fired, high velocity shock waves travel between the chamber and muzzle in a pulsing manner.
We want the bullet to exit when the shock wave has reached the chamber end so the barrel is not "upset" at that exact moment. This is where the term "putting the barrel to sleep" came from. When this is done correctly (by fine tuning powder charges in the 1/10ths of grains and tuning bullet seating depth), bullet impact should be all horizontal with very little to no vertical dispersion.
I can see the advantage of the limbsaver for guys who only use factory ammo or aren't into advanced reloading. In that case, the limbsaver is really the only way to change barrel harmonics other than changing rifle bedding.
The Browning (Winchester) BOSS system does this, but it is quite expensive and Increases the Noise Level.
You are correct my friend!
Thanks for the video! Now I know why my rifle becomes off a little bit on those larger 150 grain bullets I use.
Yesser!
Incredible education, thank you
Where would you think best place to put .It on rifle barrel and maybe just leave it I know shooting for different ammo like you explain. Was best . Thanks ! I bought one have not had a chance to try it out yet .
I admit I have not watched your whole video yet as I am typing this but what would two do 3 do on a barrel
great video thank you
Hey guys I was wondering if you guys would post a turkey hunting video for thanks giving here in va we can hunt turkeys on thanksgiving day I do not know if that goes for the rest of the states, im prolly goin down to my hunt club for a few hours an see what happens... I would love to see a video on it, keep up the FANTASTIC work!!
Thanks for all of the kind words Nacho!! We don't have a Fall turkey season here in SC... wish we did!
Bubba Rountree Outdoors haha its all right you guys are still great hunters lol.
Sure beats days of reloading hoping to the the sweet spot.
Mine works great on my Remington SPS model-700 22-250.Sometimes it so accurate it is scary. SHOOT SAFE!!!!!!!!!
So I have one on one of my Rifles. My ? Is when your changing loads/ Bullet weight. Are you still moving the Limb saver .5” ? At a time.
It depends... I would always check my new load groups before I moved it.
This is an interesting topic. But the subject of barrel harmonics may be more complicated than the sine wave example you show (constant frequency). Kind of like moving your finger dynamically on a violin string (no frets) so there is a pitch change over time, the same thing may happen with barrel harmonics in that when the bullet is near the breech end the barrel harmonic is not the same as when the bullet is near the muzzle.
Do you know if someone has actually measured the "frequency" of this vibration and demonstrated whether there is or isn't a change in pitch during bullet travel down the barrel?
Do you know if someone has put more than one of these devices on the same barrel moving them independently to see if that makes any significant changes? (maybe one closer to the breech, the other closer to the muzzle?) Given how inexpensive these are, that might be interesting to test out.
I'm sure there are many other factors that come into play. Thicker barrels will most likely have a higher overall frequency than thinner barrels, shorter barrels probably will have a higher pitch than longer barrels. I have no idea how complicated things could get with a tapered barrel. Bullet weight and velocity would also affect frequency (maybe also amplitude).
But as I said -- very interesting topic. I suspect that some kind of "barrel tuning" will become more common the more it is studied.
so what wld happen if u used more than one at a time? or loaded it with as many as u cld fit?
@@sim7409 that's a great question!
I drove a mechanics truck that at certian rpms and certian road speeds would drive you nuts with the noise the gearshift would make vibrating so bad it sounded like pissed off rattle snake was riding along,then an old truck driver told me to put a section of heater hose down over it Wala the thing was quite silant I guess this deresinator thingy works on the same princaple!!
Hi Bubba
The Limbsaver X-Ring Long shooter, haven't come to Danmark jet,
is it possebly that you can make a test fine tuning shooting at 200 m. / 200 yard. at target's paper, and ajust out and ind ind resunans - so we can see what is happening ?2. quiestion - do there exist some thin like this to ½ Automatic 12 gauge shotgun,
so the barrol dosen't lift when shouting.Best Regard - Henrik Friis at/Jaktliv
Briliant !👍😎
Awesome video thanks
Ocb have you much experience with the newer mini 14 s because if you did I would think you're comment might change ,mine will hold a one inch groups at 100 yds with wolf cheapo ammo and my friends will keep in two inches not bad for a mini and a lot better than some stock at 15 s I've shot I've seen are that were lucky to keep in six inches at 100 yds then I've shot some of them with after market Barrell installed that were increadably accurate ! I have seen old minis that were bad like 4inch groups,I suppose barrel quality has to do with it but Ruger is hammer forging thier own tubes now,and seem to have it together I like the m14 call me old fashioned but the 308 or 7.62 is vastly Superior to the 5.56 that's a fact !!!
will I git mur duks ifn i puts it on shutgn?.....jus kiddin
Thanks for the explanation, very interesting. One question: does it work on air-rifles? I'm not talking about one of them rubbish rifles that kick like a mule, but about a well designed, and well made AA TX200, AA Prosport, Feinwerkbau Sporter or a tuned HW97.
Thank you for your informative video. One question, how much effect will this devise help a rifle that has a premier barrel , bedded perfectly in a bench rest stock with a top end action? My thought is that this devise would be very helpful to a rifle with bedding problems or a barrel that has been stressed while being manufacrured, or any other many issues that may occur in the making of an off the shelf rifle ? And not so much with a custom built rifle. Either way, what a great product. Thank you.
+Gunslinger I have never had this device on a high-end rifle... So, not sure about the effect it would have on a really nice (custom) rifle.
+Bubba Rountree Outdoors Thank you, like tuning a guitar . Has to help.
If your reloading for that custom rifle you can change the load and head space to tune it, but with factory ammo you find the sweet spot and could get better
I just have one question. After you find a "sweet spot" with one type of ammo., does the accuracy change when you switch to a different ammo? I figure that different ammo would change the harmonics of the barrel thereby causing a change in accuracy and point of impact. Your answer will be appreciated, Thanks.
Yes......Every bullet weight/style, powder charge, round manufacturer, even a different manufacture of the primer can cause a difference. Maybe a small one but still a difference.
G'day, where are the after testing results. You show the before but not the after????
I had a complete shoulder replacement and am attempting to minimize the felt recoil. What can you recommend for me? I am gearing up and practicing for the grizzly hunt next year with my Winchester .416 Safari Express. Thank you for this site.
Dr. Mark, sorry, but there no free lunches when it comes to your situation. A 416 rem. is going to punish your shoulder whatever you do. There are some things you can do to reduce felt recoil though. a] increase rifle weight. b] install one and possibly two mercury recoil reducers in the buttstock. c] fitting a muzzle brake. d] porting your barrel e] fitting a purpose built "recoil taming" buttpad f] sewing a "recoil taming" patch into your shooting jacket [available from Brownells] . Either c] or d] are going to split your eardrums though. You could also consider a lighter load or even a different cartridge altogether that would be kinder to your shoulder. Good hunting and straight shooting!!!
Do you dial to different spots for the different loads you shoot? And does temperature and humidity (snow and rain) change anything that you notice? Good stuff. Thanks for the tips.
I think you want to place it close to the anti-node.....not the node. Notice....the slope of the curve at the node is very severe. Think of that "point" as to how the muzzle is directed. The slope of the curve is nearly flat at the very top or very bottom of the curve. A slight mis-alignment or "positioning error" of the de-resonator won't make much difference. At the anti-node, the curve is still relatively flat....but it will make a big difference at the node. A smidge to the right of the node and the muzzle points down....a smidge to the left of the node and the muzzle points up. At an anti-node.....you don't see such sensitivity, it's relatively flat. So....my point.....the vid you show is good.....but the "goodness" location you are chasing is the anti-node ( hill top or hill-valley).
Hi Bubba I have a ranger carbon wrapped tension barrel on my ruger 10/22 will a de-resonator work with this type of barrel as its fully suppressed ,great vid & I have ordered one to try
hey Gary! Not sure if it will work. But it surely won't do any harm!
Thank you
This may work with "Factory" rounds because they are pre-built. But for reloaders the same effect can be achieved by altering your bullet weight and/or charge. Still looks like an interesting concept though.
Great video man! Where can I buy it?
+latexanita You can find them on Amazon & Ebay!
amazon
nice video
Sorry Bubba, but you actually want the bullet to exit your barrel at the anti-node. It will decrease the variance by 1/2! That will decrease your POI by 1/2. These things are great and I just wanted you to get the reasoning. There are slight variances in powder loads and other factors that affect the velocity. OK, say the bullet exits the barrel at the center of the node with a perfect load. If it is a little light then it will be a bit slower and not quite reach the center of the node. This will cause it to leave the barrel say 1/4 high from center. Same thing if it is faster, it will be, say 1/4 inch low. That is 1/2 inch. Now if you are at the lower antinode and it's a bit fast you are 1/4 inch high. If you are a bit slow you are 1/4 in high also! You just cut your POI by 1/2.
+Mars Rover Yes, you are right. You want the bullet to exit on the upside of the barrel whip. Having the bullet exit when it is "center" is the worst thing you could do
+Mars Rover Glad somebody pointed that out! Not sure I agree with your explanation of why it should leave at the anti-node. I think it is because of the angle of the barrel. When the bullet exits at an anti-node, the barrel is aligned parallel with the intended bullet path. If it leaves at node the barrel is at an angle to the intended path.
The angle of the barrel doesn't matter. As long as the POI is consistent. You then adjust your POA to match the POI. The smaller the deviation the better your groups. You can use either the upper or lower antinode. Both will cut your height error by 1/2. This is especially helpful on a lighter barrel. A stiffer barrel will be more accurate by it's very nature and then you need to dampen the effects of barrel movement to attain even higher accuracy.
The reason you want the bullet to leave the barrel at an antinode is because the sideways velocity of the end of the barrel is zero at the antinode. At the nodes, the velocity of the end of the barrel is at its maximum, and a very small deviation from the node point will put the end of the barrel somewhere other than where you want it.
If anything, it helps protect your barrel when you lay your gun on the ground by supporting it.
I respectfully disagree as to when the bullet should leave. It should be almost opposite of your spot.. just before the upswing of the sine.. at the termination of 'barrel [whipping] energy'. Your 'De-r' will still work but the reason WHY is more accurate. Just sayin..
I can do you one better. Why you have the harmonics in your barrel. You stock is vibrating the barrel. Look at the gap and get a piece of paper and slide it between barrel and stock. Some rifles have a screw and spring to dampen the barrel vibration between stock. It's why people have glass beds put in stock too. The end of your stock is where it's at. The de-resonator on a free float part of barrel should be in middle. It's telling you its your stock. Its about the vibration or pressures the stock causes on different parts of the barrel. Sometimes even a gas block can cause vibrations. Powder primer burn speeds can cause harmonics too like on modern muzzle loaders.
A shaft collar does a better job. a two piece collar 1inch wide if steel has weight and also tunes better than a rubber tuner to dial in your pitch AKA harmonic balancer this is why they use metal tuner's on a guitar and not rubber everything is metal when you hit the perfect resonation it will continue to ring in perfect resonation thus harmonics are changed and tuned. You can buy the collars on eBay for ten bucks or less measure the barrel diameter and order shaft collar of the same size one piece works but two piece collars have no screw scratching your barrel. As with the limb saver move little by little as much as hundred thousand inch at a time to hit the sweet spot. The collar has more weight than the rubber and will balance better . Your harmonic balancers on a motor are steel not rubber it absorbs the shafts harmonics of the rods and crankshaft to run smoothly. This collar is not spinning your bullets are this tunes the barrel and projectiles in the barrel.
Look up steel collar tuner here on RUclips see how it's done for a couple of dollars for a steel shaft collar from eBay
IMHO, this is an oversimplification of a complex dynamic effect with many variables at play. This de-resonator could improve a poorly set-up poor barrel barrel somewhat by damping only but will not help a good barrel that is indexed unless placed at the end of the muzzle. It would need to be heavier, too.
An indexed barrel with a tuned compensator of sufficient weight will lower the impact point of marginally hotter high flying faster bullets that are fired at a higher angle due to a higher magnitude sign wave peak and earlier timing point that the faster bullet exits the barrel.
The same barrel with slightly lower powered (slower ) shot variations exit the barrel at one of those null nodes.
This set up I describe delivers tighter vertical groups by providing proportionate positive compensation for marginally hotter high flyers, but has inconsequential effect on already flat shooting rounds.
Horizontal variation should not be a factor on a good indexed barrel properly setup even without a compensator.
it changes ever, ammo is different
Show the group you shot with the de-resonator to believe it works.
Mr Wade u r to educated
I guess my rifles don't need this as long as I don't use Winchester or Remington ammunition?
DARRYL SHABOGAMIK It still could tighten your groups since your shooting factory ammo
Unfortunatly, this is mis information. You want to move the barrel weight(barrel tuner or a limbsaver), until your bullet exit on top of a curve, or at the bottom of a curve, where the barrel stands still. Preferrable in the top/bottom of a good node, to make the barrel positive compensate for velocity changes in your reloads (so they will hit in the same vertical placement every time).
Not like shown in the video. In the video you show the so called nodes beeing where the barrel has the maximum movement. This is completely wrong and mis information.
We have used tuners in centerfire and rimfire for many years. The way to tune a winning rifle in rimfire, is like i explained. If we would have done what this video is explaining, we would have the worst possible vertical spread, and also probably the worst groupings the rifle could produce..
Just some hard facts
its a gimmick to lighten your wallet
...but does it work?
Snake oil !
Bullshit, its science. I use one and it works pretty good.
Peter Para Bellum I've been a leo sniper for quite some time now and I'm here to tell you right now, IT WORKS!!!!!! No snake oil here. Do your own research, you'll see for yourself. Really this is all simple physics!!