Clearly the only thing the 2021 regs actually need to state is that the car *must* look like a sexy pastry. I think the engineers will get the message.
I really trust Ross Brawn on this one, because if someone with his knowledge of car design, the ways the engineers think and political weight can't fix it, we have a really really big problem.
Paul Ludda True the tobacco companys provided alot of money, but theres nothing F1 can do. In most countries tobacco advertising in this way is illegal, and although I loved the liveries, rightly so. Indycar will try hard no to be relegated to act as a feeder series for F1, so thats not the way to go for talents. I think the whole ´´the pay drivers are stealing the seats for the talents´´ debate is blown way out of proportion. We have 3 real pay drivers in Stroll, Sirotkin and Ericsson. And pay drivers in F1 aren´t anything new legends like Niki Lauda started out as pay drivers. The bigger problem with all these ultra talens is they are to young and overhyped. Ocon, Vandoorne and Sainz are/were overhyped, yes they have alot of talent, but they dont have future legend talent. The only current young drivers that may have a shot at legend status are Verstappen and Leclerc, the others will at best turn out to be Rosbergs and Buttons.
Peter Zwegert very good post although I’m not convinced by Leclerc. He’s benefited from the Sauber car performing above expectations and a weak teammate. Anyway let’s see what he can do next year under real pressure.
You know, Ferrari still has Philip Morris (Owning company of Marlboro) sponsorship, so tobacco is still there in the sport, but in a more subliminal form, at least in the Scuderia.
I know, but that kind of deal would only work for a team like Ferrari. Noone would care if they see a Camel billboard with a Williams on in it in an airport. It only works on the bases it´s Ferrari and their legacy known even to normal people. Yes I´m not sure with Leclerc either, I just think he has everything you can ask for. He starts his career in a great Ferrari with an F1 legend as your teammate and although I´m not sure about how much talent he actually has, I personally see him above many of those ´´ultra talented young drivers´´.
Paul Ludda that’s a really good point. Is it illegal for teams to be sponsored by alcohol brands? If its not illegal then small teams could benefit from this.
Your analysis about the current “artist impression” visual designs versus rule-defined designs is spot on. Who cares about these renders if you don’t know the exact rules that _could_ lead to these designs, but might actually result in something that looks like a mix between a go-kart and a Gumpert sports car? Funnily enough, none of the other news outlets who have responded to this, have approached the subject like this - they’re all completely preoccupied with drooling over the designs and whether DRS will be there or not. Top notch work again!
Could you please make a video about the restrictions a F1 team has, how does FIA control them and is it possible that a team can make a 3rd car and develop it secretly?!
The last one is probably impossible since the team would have to escape the strict controls the FIA has upon them and then avoid any kind of outsiders at their track (car spotters or other paparazzis)
i don't want to live until 2021 to see the disappointment when they actually come up with a real car which would be totally different from this awesome beast of a concept car
Every time they try and regulate for aesthetics it’s always been a disaster. It’s my own little theory that the inert center wing section was to try and motivate teams to return to low noses and instead we got phallic noses and the Y250 vortex. Just regulate for racing.
Ross will be harder to pull the wool over because of the amount of times he 'bent' the rules himself. He knows how engineers think and work and will be over each new car like a rash! If he's not, he's not doing his job. Poacher turned gamekeeper LOL.
Dumb question: is there a reason the rule makers don’t regulate air turbulence directly? Something like “Aero elements may not decrease downforce more than Y% on a standardized wing placed X meters behind the car in a wind tunnel”.
That would require a regulation wind tunnel, a default front wing, and a bunch of extra testing time. Most regulations are easy to measure with a ruler, while this would be complicated to judge. Also, how would you test it if the car conveniently brushed a wall, losing the anti-turbulence aero devices?
You would have to test every car after qualifying and race in the wind channel to make sure no one cheated. You cant measure the air turbulence in real time like for example the fuel consumption.
and how would the regulate that? Turbulence is a fundamental force of nature. The 2019 change attempts to this by reducing outwash potential. Outwashing are vortices that wrap around the front tire moving it's turbulent wake outboard, away from the floor/bargeboard thereby increasing the effectiveness of ground effect (floor/diffusor). This will decrease aero-efficiency making the cars draggier while creating less downforce.
This is not a dumb question. The short answer is the same as the others, with so little time between races and session of the same race it would be impossible to test and certificate each wing and wing set-up by the FIA so they could only trust the teams ( very poor choice if you ask me ) or they would pratically stop or cut down the car development due to all the testing needed allow new wings.
The thing about these conceptual drawings is that they are all about aesthetics first, physics later. That's because I doubt they pass them through CFD before rendering the pictures. Sleek doesn't necessarily mean most efficient. Physics don't care about aesthetics. And even if you find a good solution and try it out in the wind tunnel, somebody may get better results than you with a very different design. Design wise, I think they should just regulate the wake created by the car as to allow slingshot overtakes and let everything else free. Add wings wherever you want, make them as wide as you want, put winglets everywhere. Go bananas. Just abide by a wake quality standard test to be done by FIA officials.
That is the whole point of F1, finding loophioles in the regulation is the very core of innovative engineering... the trick is to exploit loopholes enough to sustain an advantage without blowing the grid away so much that your development isn't banned. This is what F1 has always been since the very first race in 1950.
Fair play I’ve come across your channel & you’re so informative & just generally awesome A lot of F1 fans & even sim racers can learn so much from you Nice one & thank you 👍🏻
Since environment is so important these days, how about a much sleeker body style to strengthen drag efficiency, which lower the effects of downforce and be more fuel efficient? We could potentially see some big speed numbers (like 400km/h+), and usually race series that feature cars with less aerodynamic grip tends to often had good close racing (Touring Car, Formula E for example)
The corners become way slower. You won't see the 200 mph corners at tracks like silverstone if you don't give the cars the tools to maintain that grip around corners. I just want cars faster every year. If you're calling it the pinnacle of motorsport they need to be the fastest thing around a track.
My personal view although it may not be new. Set a wing in an air tunnel a set distance behind an F1 car. The engineers can do what they want but at 100mph the wing behind must realise a set amount or weight of down force. That FIA wing should mimic the front wing of a following car thus give a known amount of down force for following cars. Cars can be homologated at the beginning of the season and teams could possibly submit any changes prior to any grand prix once a test has been passed. That way engineers can have their fun but cars should be able to follow and get a tow to overtake. It will limit in season changes and spending, give engineers the chance to show off and drivers a chance to overtake without DRS.
I thought of the same thing, my idea was to have a test rig of some sorts to be towed by a car under inspection along a runway and measure the downforce of the rig. Wind tunnel is probably better.
I think they partly released the images as a dare to the designers ie this is how good the cars could look, I dare you to try to make more ugly stuff. On a side note I would love to see a regulation that meant the cars had to be able to followed. If I was engineering an F1 car at the moment, I would create aero parts that deliberately disrupt the air to the car below.
Great video. But I dont wanna see artificial futurist designs in F1 (like the ridiculous F-E). I wanna see results about the turbulence and Engineerings doing their job. If It results in beautiful cars , even better. Starting to be afraid about the New managenent. Dont mess with F1
i feel like the endplates on front wing will raise and sit just outside of the front wheels and rear endplates will only extend to the top step of the wing stopping the vortex created by the air dropping off the back of the wing and mixing with the air traveling up from the exhaust and floor
Surely what we need is a design that creates clean air behind the sides of the car but still allows for the low down for the behind the car. That way you can draft down the straight and then pull into cleaner air to overtake.
Perhaps a place to start is by specifying the results F1 wants: for example, specify the outwash behind a car cannot exceed X amount of disrupted air pressure Y degrees above ambient temperature. Or, specify that that at X kph the design has to generate Y lbs / sq inch of downforce. Telling an engineer what the height or shape of a design has to be via templates is where it all gets on thin ice. One has to think through every possible "Law Of Unintended Consequences."
The DRS could easily be implemented by stalling the rear wing with airflow, much like the F-duct. Actually kind of surprising they didnt switch to that system, saves weight too.
Definitely a fan of the idea that good racing has to be prioritised over aesthetics. The 2012 season was fantastic, despite the cars not exactly being the prettiest F1 cars of all time. The rule change for that year put all the teams on a very similar footing for more than half of the season, which resulted in some very exciting and unpredictable racing!
I have a concept. No wings/winglets or any protruding crap. Shape the body only. Much like old ground effect cars but completely wihout wings. And prevent actual ground effect (because it can be dangerous) by mandating that the sidewalls be higher by some margin than the bottom in the middle, and a curvature to the underside. Can't seal the sides > no true ground effect
I really like the look of the 3rd concept, wouldn't mind sticking that on my wall. Except the way they did the halo, makes the whole thing look like a flip-flop or something...
It seem so often when changes in F1 are proposed to make racing closer, one of the first objections is how the change will disrupted air flow that causes drivers to follow further back. The usual point being how the new change disrupt over the front wing, and as we all know, wind flow over the front wing has a huge on aero of the underside aero down force.. I think the solution would be to completely do away w all the underbody aerodynamics as now use them. That includes getting rid of all the rear defuses. Make the undersides of curved(Like in the '60's) and this bodywork to a certain length behind the and nothing on the car may extend closer than, say, 10mm from the end this floor.(this is meremy a rough draft.)
My only problem with these new sketches is if you look at the halo, it pretty much goes against one of the main reasons it was introduced. The front of the new halo is too far forward and too low and would very easily allow a tire to come into the top and donk the driver on the head. Surely this will fixed along with the rear wing by the engineers, correct?
Yeah, I guarantee that the halo as it is shown won't happen. The driver's helmet poking above the halo defeats it's purpose entirely, even though it looks much more pretty.
My only thought is... "Wonder what the designers will do to create turbulence behind the car within the new rules". A 50% loss of downforce is a huge advantage. Well, if your the guy in front that is.
It should be noted, modern f1 cars develop around 65% of it's total downforce from ground effect. A large portion of the fanbase don't seem to understand this. In fact, today's cars produce the highest downforce in history. Turbulence, the opposite of Lamina flow cannot be prevented. The front wings shapes the air, creates vortices which seal the floor increasing the effectiveness of the diffusor.
The thing is, ground effect is one of the most efficient ways of creating downforce (Hence why it boasts little drag), the problem with the 2017/2018 cars is the front wings that create a ton of drag and disturb the air behind them (creating a lot of dirty air).
Zanzaroni GR erm not exactly. The front wing roles is crucial to the diffusor. Since it conditions the downstream flow. Think about it this way, the front wing acts like a conductor in an orchestra. Without it nothing works in unison. The front wing doesn't create alot of drag per say. When following another car it loses it's ability to finely control lamina flow, allowing turbulent wake to encroach under the floor reducing the diffusors effectiness. An ineffective diffusor, loses tons of downforce.
Take a spoon and put it against some flowing water, the water pulls it in, the spoon is the diffuser and the water is the air between it and the ground. The front wing contributes slightly to the air introduced to the difusser but its main job is to force air away from the front tyres and direct it along the body, it's those vortices created to ensure that the air remains attached along the mid/rear of the body that create drag. Giving less ability to the front wing to create those vortices makes the cars produce less downforce and less drag. The least efficient downforce created is from the rear wing and then from the front wing. Diffusers create minimal drag compared to the other aerodynamic devices on the cars. That's why the new regulations promise better racing but they do not change the floor of the cars (where the diffuser is)
Really it's similar to video games, I can't remember who said it but one developed said that given the chance players will optimize the fun out of a game.
Two videos in one week! Keep em' coming Stuart! Also I love the fact that you have been appearing on The F1 Word. Hearing your unscripted opinion is awesome!
Best thing F1 could do is allow teams to do whatever they want. Give them some base rules (Max width, length etc) as well as basic parts such as the Halos, and as long as the cars pass a more strict crash test then they can race
Silverdarlin but that wouldn’t be fun to watch as cars would drastically vary in speed so for example I’d force India designed a extremely shit car for a season they will always lose every race and if ferrari made a car which was ten times better than the rest you wold always know who will win removing the whole point of the competition
Is the f-duct gonna make a come back? I think adding on the f-duct and the esthetics it brings along, will go along well with the visuals of the car imo.
Better idea: Do races inside a vacuum chamber so that there is no airflow and the donwforce is created by big magnets on the ground and on the bottom of the car
Chainbear's channel is far and away the most informative resource-based channel around, but there are a couple of presentation fundamentals missing, most notably, introducing yourself as a matter of course. It doesn't have to form part of your copy, a lower third super would serve just as well.
I kept waiting for you to notice the wide rear wing as being clearly vulnerable to a rear tyre puncture! The ripping treads will absolutely shatter the wing. Same goes for the front wing endplates. I believe it's a major flaw in the concept design.
simplify all wings. make the cars smaller. drs for any car anytime/flexible rear wings. make the tyres smaller, only a little. no hybrid. v10s. no settings to be used other than fuel mix and simplistic braking bias changes of 1 percent either way. and no fucking halo's. no traction control or abs.
I'm personally not a fan of the concept car because I feel it looks like an RC toy car, but I'm optimistic for the futures. Also where I think the regulations went wrong was making the cars wider than in previous seasons, although I do think they look pretty cool now, the slimmer cars were pretty nice and aero effect wasn't that bad I believe?
I think that they should impose a maximum amount of wake turbulence and let the engineers figure out how to achieve the downforce. then they can refine it from there and make it more regulated and consistent. I would also like to see a return to ground effects because that's the easiest way to get downforce without disturbing all of the airflow.
Hi Chain Bear! Firstly, thank you for all the informative videos related to F1 you post! I have a question I really want to get an answer to.. In every race I spectate, I wonder how the RT (Radio telephony) of the teams work? Do all the participants transmit on a singular frequency or are they allocated with different frequencies? I suppose any transmission made is not discrete? A revert would be appreciated! :)
Its as if the FIA are finally realising that ground effect cars were the right choice all along, and were wrong to ban them in the 70s. Ground effect give teams the downforce they want, without disrupting the airflow behind each car. If only the FIA realised this before...
maybe they could just say.. your car can look like anything as long as it's wake allows a certain design to have downforce of a certain percent of unobstructed or allow adjustable wings to increase downforce like a DRS does on the straights... though I hate DRS.. as I liked lap after lap of hard and close racing though some people think it's boring.
Downforce and drag squares with speed. Put another way, a design can have create flow characteristics are certain speeds and a complete different one at higher/lower speeds. (flow detachment)
Great video as always. Question. If the cars were allowed to generate more downforce using their floor as oppose to their upper surface, wouldn't that help solve the following problem?
I don't understand why they can't just regulate the air distuption. They could make it a rule that in an air tunnel the car must go below a certain turbulance threashold measued behind the car. The teams could have unique designs and the goal would be met, no?
The big problem is not the dirty air, but the downforce itself. Even with 0 dirty air they could not race or follow properly closely. Yeah, it'd improve a bit, but would still suck a lot. The problem with downforce is simply, where it makes the cars fast and where it pushes the grip limit to. Faster: With higher downforce, braking distances become shorter, cornering speeds faster (so even less braking), and exit acceleration easier due to more balanced grip. Grip: with higher aero the cars become less "placeable" on any track. There is ONE fast line, and all the others are so much slower, you cant take them. Also, due to the loads, the limit becomes a clear cut line, and going over it just consults in "understeer" or being a but more slower, not change to balance, cassis roll, no sliding, drifiting or spinning like a mechanical grip vehicle. So we have cars, that are way to wide, way to long (2 can barely fit side by side on a straight), waay to heavy which enhances the Grip problem (less placeable), have short breakings, high corner speeds, fast exit speeds and just ONE fast line on any track. Compare that to motorbikes: short, tiny (you can fit 4 wide anywhere), light, nimble, looong, tricky breaking zones, slower corner speeds, very tricky exits and a million different lines, all fast enough. Result: motorbikes create the best possible racing, formula one has 0 racing. And you really think dirty air has anything to do with that fact? Dirty air is a tiny symptom of a gigantic problem that everyone seems to ignore. Frankly, anyone who thinks the problem is dirty air should go see a doctor immediately. Should i make a proper video on this topic? I have made countless studies on this topic for some years now.. I still think no one gives a shit, because they are all ignorant, narrow-minded simpletons who simply don't care, but I'd love love love to be wrong.
Have they thought about removing wind tunnel limitations ? Maybe it could lead to teams simulating with a car infront of theirs or in corner with a car in front, or higher speeds etc
They should make rule where FIA must confirm that everything designed by teams is legal and in spirit of the rules before they are allowed to go any further or actually use the part.
Clearly the only thing the 2021 regs actually need to state is that the car *must* look like a sexy pastry. I think the engineers will get the message.
no they wont.
fast car need to go
TheOdd101 cinnamon roll-mobile
"Remember how awesome cars looked in the 80s and 90s? Do something like that"
Would be nice as some kind of "fan boost" alternative that would basically limit fuel consumtion by 0.5 - 0.25% based on how many votes a team got.
lets take a moment to remember the 6 wheeler
The fan car :D
still prettier then the scaffolding cars
an underestimated concept not suitable for the likes of the unimaginative and uncompetitive
Tyrrell was a god
Nu asurada
Just finished watching the first race with these cars in 2022 and damn it's weird seeing the concept vs how they actually look now!
I really trust Ross Brawn on this one, because if someone with his knowledge of car design, the ways the engineers think and political weight can't fix it, we have a really really big problem.
Paul Ludda True the tobacco companys provided alot of money, but theres nothing F1 can do. In most countries tobacco advertising in this way is illegal, and although I loved the liveries, rightly so.
Indycar will try hard no to be relegated to act as a feeder series for F1, so thats not the way to go for talents.
I think the whole ´´the pay drivers are stealing the seats for the talents´´ debate is blown way out of proportion. We have 3 real pay drivers in Stroll, Sirotkin and Ericsson. And pay drivers in F1 aren´t anything new legends like Niki Lauda started out as pay drivers.
The bigger problem with all these ultra talens is they are to young and overhyped. Ocon, Vandoorne and Sainz are/were overhyped, yes they have alot of talent, but they dont have future legend talent. The only current young drivers that may have a shot at legend status are Verstappen and Leclerc, the others will at best turn out to be Rosbergs and Buttons.
Peter Zwegert very good post although I’m not convinced by Leclerc. He’s benefited from the Sauber car performing above expectations and a weak teammate. Anyway let’s see what he can do next year under real pressure.
You know, Ferrari still has Philip Morris (Owning company of Marlboro) sponsorship, so tobacco is still there in the sport, but in a more subliminal form, at least in the Scuderia.
I know, but that kind of deal would only work for a team like Ferrari. Noone would care if they see a Camel billboard with a Williams on in it in an airport. It only works on the bases it´s Ferrari and their legacy known even to normal people.
Yes I´m not sure with Leclerc either, I just think he has everything you can ask for. He starts his career in a great Ferrari with an F1 legend as your teammate and although I´m not sure about how much talent he actually has, I personally see him above many of those ´´ultra talented young drivers´´.
Paul Ludda that’s a really good point. Is it illegal for teams to be sponsored by alcohol brands? If its not illegal then small teams could benefit from this.
1:25 yeah that's totally an f1 nose I want above my bed lmao
Your analysis about the current “artist impression” visual designs versus rule-defined designs is spot on. Who cares about these renders if you don’t know the exact rules that _could_ lead to these designs, but might actually result in something that looks like a mix between a go-kart and a Gumpert sports car? Funnily enough, none of the other news outlets who have responded to this, have approached the subject like this - they’re all completely preoccupied with drooling over the designs and whether DRS will be there or not.
Top notch work again!
0:12 This did not age well
Pradyumna Chandel from future, ages even worse
Alexoperplexo how..? It didn’t get pushed back any further
Could you please make a video about the restrictions a F1 team has, how does FIA control them and is it possible that a team can make a 3rd car and develop it secretly?!
You want a 100 part series?
The last one is probably impossible since the team would have to escape the strict controls the FIA has upon them and then avoid any kind of outsiders at their track (car spotters or other paparazzis)
i don't want to live until 2021 to see the disappointment when they actually come up with a real car which would be totally different from this awesome beast of a concept car
2022 now, you have a year longer to live ;)
Dude spoke 2020 into existence
Are you still alive?
Hi :)
And? Are you disappointed or satisfied with what we‘ve seen so far?
Because they hella sure look quite a lot like the concepts we‘ve seen
i genuinely think the concept design on a pure aesthetic basis is incredible
its beautiful imo
Yay not on autosport first
Every time they try and regulate for aesthetics it’s always been a disaster. It’s my own little theory that the inert center wing section was to try and motivate teams to return to low noses and instead we got phallic noses and the Y250 vortex.
Just regulate for racing.
Agreed 100%.... Form follows function, ALWAYS.
Ross will be harder to pull the wool over because of the amount of times he 'bent' the rules himself. He knows how engineers think and work and will be over each new car like a rash! If he's not, he's not doing his job. Poacher turned gamekeeper LOL.
Dumb question: is there a reason the rule makers don’t regulate air turbulence directly? Something like “Aero elements may not decrease downforce more than Y% on a standardized wing placed X meters behind the car in a wind tunnel”.
That would require a regulation wind tunnel, a default front wing, and a bunch of extra testing time. Most regulations are easy to measure with a ruler, while this would be complicated to judge. Also, how would you test it if the car conveniently brushed a wall, losing the anti-turbulence aero devices?
You would have to test every car after qualifying and race in the wind channel to make sure no one cheated. You cant measure the air turbulence in real time like for example the fuel consumption.
The other issue is that on-track effects and wind tunnel effects are likely to be extremely different. Great question, though (y)
and how would the regulate that? Turbulence is a fundamental force of nature. The 2019 change attempts to this by reducing outwash potential. Outwashing are vortices that wrap around the front tire moving it's turbulent wake outboard, away from the floor/bargeboard thereby increasing the effectiveness of ground effect (floor/diffusor). This will decrease aero-efficiency making the cars draggier while creating less downforce.
This is not a dumb question. The short answer is the same as the others, with so little time between races and session of the same race it would be impossible to test and certificate each wing and wing set-up by the FIA so they could only trust the teams ( very poor choice if you ask me ) or they would pratically stop or cut down the car development due to all the testing needed allow new wings.
Tbh the concepts look more like the Gen 2 Formula E car
car with wide visible wheels, front and rear wings looks like car with wheel arches and wingless back? you are blind?
Looks good tho
Typical Guy that’s not problem by my book, gen 2 FE cars look beautiful
I dont really like it i like the basic f1 cars not the futuristic ones
As long as its not Formula E then yay
The thing about these conceptual drawings is that they are all about aesthetics first, physics later. That's because I doubt they pass them through CFD before rendering the pictures.
Sleek doesn't necessarily mean most efficient. Physics don't care about aesthetics. And even if you find a good solution and try it out in the wind tunnel, somebody may get better results than you with a very different design.
Design wise, I think they should just regulate the wake created by the car as to allow slingshot overtakes and let everything else free. Add wings wherever you want, make them as wide as you want, put winglets everywhere. Go bananas. Just abide by a wake quality standard test to be done by FIA officials.
it's crazy how accurate this was looking at it in Hindsight.
how have i only just found this channel, this is actually the best thing on youtube
Engineers finding loop holes makes me laugh 🤣
Just that Guy
Maybe they have a legal team identifying the loopholes, advising the engineers where to focus their technical creativity.
That's what every engineer does in every industry.
That is the whole point of F1, finding loophioles in the regulation is the very core of innovative engineering... the trick is to exploit loopholes enough to sustain an advantage without blowing the grid away so much that your development isn't banned. This is what F1 has always been since the very first race in 1950.
Well done on the seamless transition to the ad
because of recent events. this feels like how people from 1945 imagine how the 2000s will look like
Fair play I’ve come across your channel & you’re so informative & just generally awesome
A lot of F1 fans & even sim racers can learn so much from you
Nice one & thank you 👍🏻
*GROUND EFFECT DOESNT MIND "DIRTY AIR"*
... As much as a spoiler at least.
Since environment is so important these days, how about a much sleeker body style to strengthen drag efficiency, which lower the effects of downforce and be more fuel efficient? We could potentially see some big speed numbers (like 400km/h+), and usually race series that feature cars with less aerodynamic grip tends to often had good close racing (Touring Car, Formula E for example)
The corners become way slower. You won't see the 200 mph corners at tracks like silverstone if you don't give the cars the tools to maintain that grip around corners. I just want cars faster every year. If you're calling it the pinnacle of motorsport they need to be the fastest thing around a track.
i love the way you explain things with drawings and examples, really a great job👌👌
Squarespace❤ Thanks for sponsoring this amazing channel
I was at Brawn's talk in Singapore. He intended for the image to be shared. The "wildfire" isn't accidental, it's what Liberty wants
Exciting and inspirational indeed...and I know, concepts rarely end up as reality, but I've my fingers crossed.
That zoom into the waterbear's body was really funny to me for some reason. Good video as usual, too.
the 2021 cars would look cool with a 2006 or 2007 front wing
5:00 This concept also has some very unique barge-boad like structures immediately downstream the front wheels. Never seen those before!
Bro the concepts look so mich better than what we ended up with.
the strapon year was hilarious for me when it was first shown to the public
My personal view although it may not be new. Set a wing in an air tunnel a set distance behind an F1 car. The engineers can do what they want but at 100mph the wing behind must realise a set amount or weight of down force. That FIA wing should mimic the front wing of a following car thus give a known amount of down force for following cars. Cars can be homologated at the beginning of the season and teams could possibly submit any changes prior to any grand prix once a test has been passed. That way engineers can have their fun but cars should be able to follow and get a tow to overtake. It will limit in season changes and spending, give engineers the chance to show off and drivers a chance to overtake without DRS.
I thought of the same thing, my idea was to have a test rig of some sorts to be towed by a car under inspection along a runway and measure the downforce of the rig. Wind tunnel is probably better.
I think they partly released the images as a dare to the designers ie this is how good the cars could look, I dare you to try to make more ugly stuff.
On a side note I would love to see a regulation that meant the cars had to be able to followed. If I was engineering an F1 car at the moment, I would create aero parts that deliberately disrupt the air to the car below.
That last concept car is pretty boss. I'm excited to see whatever changes come.
Great video. But I dont wanna see artificial futurist designs in F1 (like the ridiculous F-E). I wanna see results about the turbulence and Engineerings doing their job. If It results in beautiful cars , even better. Starting to be afraid about the New managenent.
Dont mess with F1
Purist.
i feel like the endplates on front wing will raise and sit just outside of the front wheels and rear endplates will only extend to the top step of the wing stopping the vortex created by the air dropping off the back of the wing and mixing with the air traveling up from the exhaust and floor
Surely what we need is a design that creates clean air behind the sides of the car but still allows for the low down for the behind the car. That way you can draft down the straight and then pull into cleaner air to overtake.
Perhaps a place to start is by specifying the results F1 wants: for example, specify the outwash behind a car cannot exceed X amount of disrupted air pressure Y degrees above ambient temperature. Or, specify that that at X kph the design has to generate Y lbs / sq inch of downforce. Telling an engineer what the height or shape of a design has to be via templates is where it all gets on thin ice. One has to think through every possible "Law Of Unintended Consequences."
Third concept is beautiful!
hahahahhaha i lost it at the bats and glue thing xD
Those concepts look great, bring it on I reckon! They should raise the rpm on the engines also for a fantastic sound too.
A video on Wheel tethers please... I do really want to know how it works. Keep up the great work chainbear
The DRS could easily be implemented by stalling the rear wing with airflow, much like the F-duct. Actually kind of surprising they didnt switch to that system, saves weight too.
Definitely a fan of the idea that good racing has to be prioritised over aesthetics. The 2012 season was fantastic, despite the cars not exactly being the prettiest F1 cars of all time.
The rule change for that year put all the teams on a very similar footing for more than half of the season, which resulted in some very exciting and unpredictable racing!
Wow...that car at 4.05 into this video...YES PLEASE !
I have a concept. No wings/winglets or any protruding crap. Shape the body only. Much like old ground effect cars but completely wihout wings. And prevent actual ground effect (because it can be dangerous) by mandating that the sidewalls be higher by some margin than the bottom in the middle, and a curvature to the underside. Can't seal the sides > no true ground effect
It's good to have the king of tricks in charge of making sure other people don't pull tricks. It takes one to know one!
I really like the look of the 3rd concept, wouldn't mind sticking that on my wall. Except the way they did the halo, makes the whole thing look like a flip-flop or something...
It seem so often when changes in F1 are proposed to make racing closer, one of the first objections is how the change will disrupted air flow that causes drivers to follow further back. The usual point being how the new change disrupt over the front wing, and as we all know, wind flow over the front wing has a huge on aero of the underside aero down force..
I think the solution would be to completely do away w all the underbody aerodynamics as now use them. That includes getting rid of all the rear defuses. Make the undersides of curved(Like in the '60's) and this bodywork to a certain length behind the and nothing on the car may extend closer than, say, 10mm from the end this floor.(this is meremy a rough draft.)
That 3rd concept is a gorgeous machine!
Honestly if cars end up looking like the 3rd concept car, there will be a lot of very happy fans (providing they provide racing ☺️)
My only problem with these new sketches is if you look at the halo, it pretty much goes against one of the main reasons it was introduced. The front of the new halo is too far forward and too low and would very easily allow a tire to come into the top and donk the driver on the head. Surely this will fixed along with the rear wing by the engineers, correct?
Yeah, I guarantee that the halo as it is shown won't happen. The driver's helmet poking above the halo defeats it's purpose entirely, even though it looks much more pretty.
I love how speedy and flawless they look but God I just hate the look of the curved rear wing on those concept cars
My only thought is... "Wonder what the designers will do to create turbulence behind the car within the new rules". A 50% loss of downforce is a huge advantage. Well, if your the guy in front that is.
Dude, you are a legend. Thanks Man! ✌🏼
It should be noted, modern f1 cars develop around 65% of it's total downforce from ground effect. A large portion of the fanbase don't seem to understand this. In fact, today's cars produce the highest downforce in history. Turbulence, the opposite of Lamina flow cannot be prevented. The front wings shapes the air, creates vortices which seal the floor increasing the effectiveness of the diffusor.
How about we get rid of vortices and bring back old school ground effect with skirts around the cars.
You can't unlearn technology. Lol.
The thing is, ground effect is one of the most efficient ways of creating downforce (Hence why it boasts little drag), the problem with the 2017/2018 cars is the front wings that create a ton of drag and disturb the air behind them (creating a lot of dirty air).
Zanzaroni GR erm not exactly. The front wing roles is crucial to the diffusor. Since it conditions the downstream flow. Think about it this way, the front wing acts like a conductor in an orchestra. Without it nothing works in unison. The front wing doesn't create alot of drag per say. When following another car it loses it's ability to finely control lamina flow, allowing turbulent wake to encroach under the floor reducing the diffusors effectiness. An ineffective diffusor, loses tons of downforce.
Take a spoon and put it against some flowing water, the water pulls it in, the spoon is the diffuser and the water is the air between it and the ground. The front wing contributes slightly to the air introduced to the difusser but its main job is to force air away from the front tyres and direct it along the body, it's those vortices created to ensure that the air remains attached along the mid/rear of the body that create drag. Giving less ability to the front wing to create those vortices makes the cars produce less downforce and less drag. The least efficient downforce created is from the rear wing and then from the front wing. Diffusers create minimal drag compared to the other aerodynamic devices on the cars. That's why the new regulations promise better racing but they do not change the floor of the cars (where the diffuser is)
Cool, a new chain bear video
Really it's similar to video games, I can't remember who said it but one developed said that given the chance players will optimize the fun out of a game.
Love your vids!!
Two videos in one week! Keep em' coming Stuart! Also I love the fact that you have been appearing on The F1 Word. Hearing your unscripted opinion is awesome!
Best thing F1 could do is allow teams to do whatever they want. Give them some base rules (Max width, length etc) as well as basic parts such as the Halos, and as long as the cars pass a more strict crash test then they can race
Silverdarlin but that wouldn’t be fun to watch as cars would drastically vary in speed so for example I’d force India designed a extremely shit car for a season they will always lose every race and if ferrari made a car which was ten times better than the rest you wold always know who will win removing the whole point of the competition
Is the f-duct gonna make a come back? I think adding on the f-duct and the esthetics it brings along, will go along well with the visuals of the car imo.
Better idea: Do races inside a vacuum chamber so that there is no airflow and the donwforce is created by big magnets on the ground and on the bottom of the car
me watching this in 2021 👀
Chainbear's channel is far and away the most informative resource-based channel around, but there are a couple of presentation fundamentals missing, most notably, introducing yourself as a matter of course. It doesn't have to form part of your copy, a lower third super would serve just as well.
Will they use an active diffuser something similar to a Ferrari FFX-Ks diffuser? Will it be a replacement to a DRS?
feels like i'm looking at the 2019 camaro
“Like a sexy pastry.” LOL
They should bring back ground effect, the cars would be much faster and also be able to follow each other
surprised no-one mentiones the wheels
I kept waiting for you to notice the wide rear wing as being clearly vulnerable to a rear tyre puncture! The ripping treads will absolutely shatter the wing. Same goes for the front wing endplates. I believe it's a major flaw in the concept design.
simplify all wings. make the cars smaller. drs for any car anytime/flexible rear wings. make the tyres smaller, only a little. no hybrid. v10s. no settings to be used other than fuel mix and simplistic braking bias changes of 1 percent either way. and no fucking halo's. no traction control or abs.
sounds dangerous but fun
objectively, I would enjoy a football match with cricket bats and players drenched in glue oh so much more :D
I'm personally not a fan of the concept car because I feel it looks like an RC toy car, but I'm optimistic for the futures. Also where I think the regulations went wrong was making the cars wider than in previous seasons, although I do think they look pretty cool now, the slimmer cars were pretty nice and aero effect wasn't that bad I believe?
So now l want to see your ideas for 2021 F1cars CB. Go on...please.
Man what you don’t know I could write a book about at this point
I think that they should impose a maximum amount of wake turbulence and let the engineers figure out how to achieve the downforce. then they can refine it from there and make it more regulated and consistent. I would also like to see a return to ground effects because that's the easiest way to get downforce without disturbing all of the airflow.
Hi Chain Bear!
Firstly, thank you for all the informative videos related to F1 you post!
I have a question I really want to get an answer to.. In every race I spectate, I wonder how the RT (Radio telephony) of the teams work?
Do all the participants transmit on a singular frequency or are they allocated with different frequencies?
I suppose any transmission made is not discrete?
A revert would be appreciated! :)
Shobhit Mehrotra Pretty sure they operate on different frequencies to allow simultaneous communication.
The 3rd one looks insane as hell
You deserve more views
I have to say I think this video is the first time I've heard a car described as "a sexy pastry"
They should improve the halo by blending glass into the halo to form a windshield in the gaps in the sides of the halo.
AURICOM would restrict access for fire fighting equipment into the drivers compartment
Its as if the FIA are finally realising that ground effect cars were the right choice all along, and were wrong to ban them in the 70s. Ground effect give teams the downforce they want, without disrupting the airflow behind each car. If only the FIA realised this before...
Agreed.
Imagine this to improve overtaking: DRS on front and rear wing
maybe they could just say.. your car can look like anything as long as it's wake allows a certain design to have downforce of a certain percent of unobstructed or allow adjustable wings to increase downforce like a DRS does on the straights... though I hate DRS.. as I liked lap after lap of hard and close racing though some people think it's boring.
Downforce and drag squares with speed. Put another way, a design can have create flow characteristics are certain speeds and a complete different one at higher/lower speeds. (flow detachment)
1:25 "oh my god thats a sex aide on the froooont !!!"
I like the factuality. That’s a word right? Crisp and to the point. Brilliant
Great video as always. Question. If the cars were allowed to generate more downforce using their floor as oppose to their upper surface, wouldn't that help solve the following problem?
I don't understand why they can't just regulate the air distuption. They could make it a rule that in an air tunnel the car must go below a certain turbulance threashold measued behind the car. The teams could have unique designs and the goal would be met, no?
It's confirmed that chain bear is a pastry-ophile.
"... Ross Brawn is a talented engineer, and is less likely to be blindsided..."
Double-decker diffuser, anyone?
Unpopular opinion: I quite like the look of the current halo. I think it looks quite slick.
The big problem is not the dirty air, but the downforce itself. Even with 0 dirty air they could not race or follow properly closely. Yeah, it'd improve a bit, but would still suck a lot.
The problem with downforce is simply, where it makes the cars fast and where it pushes the grip limit to.
Faster: With higher downforce, braking distances become shorter, cornering speeds faster (so even less braking), and exit acceleration easier due to more balanced grip.
Grip: with higher aero the cars become less "placeable" on any track. There is ONE fast line, and all the others are so much slower, you cant take them. Also, due to the loads, the limit becomes a clear cut line, and going over it just consults in "understeer" or being a but more slower, not change to balance, cassis roll, no sliding, drifiting or spinning like a mechanical grip vehicle.
So we have cars, that are way to wide, way to long (2 can barely fit side by side on a straight), waay to heavy which enhances the Grip problem (less placeable), have short breakings, high corner speeds, fast exit speeds and just ONE fast line on any track.
Compare that to motorbikes: short, tiny (you can fit 4 wide anywhere), light, nimble, looong, tricky breaking zones, slower corner speeds, very tricky exits and a million different lines, all fast enough.
Result: motorbikes create the best possible racing, formula one has 0 racing.
And you really think dirty air has anything to do with that fact? Dirty air is a tiny symptom of a gigantic problem that everyone seems to ignore. Frankly, anyone who thinks the problem is dirty air should go see a doctor immediately.
Should i make a proper video on this topic? I have made countless studies on this topic for some years now.. I still think no one gives a shit, because they are all ignorant, narrow-minded simpletons who simply don't care, but I'd love love love to be wrong.
"insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting shit to change"
It is dirty air though :)
Can you do an up to date version?
Have they thought about removing wind tunnel limitations ?
Maybe it could lead to teams simulating with a car infront of theirs or in corner with a car in front, or higher speeds etc
Removing the limit will give a MASSIVE advantage to bigger teams. It'll create a spending war, which is the opposite of what f1 is trying to achieve.
They should make rule where FIA must confirm that everything designed by teams is legal and in spirit of the rules before they are allowed to go any further or actually use the part.
That moment when you discover a video by Chainbear that you SOMEHOW missed :o
psssss that will be Awsome engineering concepts come true