I love this video! The connection hip-shoulder is such an important aspect of swimming! But not many people understand and talk about this. Thanks to have made this video. Have you seen videos of Katie Ledecky with her 2 beat kick, for example in the 1500m? It’s very impressive to see the strong connection she has between hip and upper body, we almost see the « power » from her hips transmitting to her stroke. She is known to have a shoulder driven freestyle from what I’ve read but I see so much power coming from the hips and it seems to me that they are rotating slightly before the shoulders….hybrid maybe… what do you think? Another thing I notice is that she has a stronger kick with the opposite side of her breath (when bringing the head back from breathing) I do the same. Do you have a stronger kick on this « opposite to breathing side » too?
Thanks for the comment and questions , yes Katie Ledecky I would classify as a hybrid stroke, she’s amazing no doubt . With the hybrid stroke and breathing there is a little extra power coming from the kick especially when breathing. I do try to imitate this myself when breathing, though my stroke is quite different looking that Katie’s 😄
I breath to the left, so the right side I have a tendency to rotate less….something that helps me is to lightly look to the right and that automatically lift my shoulder a bit
@@siskatrainingsystems Did you try that? Next time, instead to look straight down, look to the right (or left, depending on your breath side) and see if there is a difference. It also help me my neck on long distance swimming Greetings from Michigan
Hmm, looking at this today and flashing back, I consider exercise and hot sauce to be alike. If it don't make you sweat, you aren't doing it right! I am one of those very heavy sweaters though.....
Well, going to disagree with you on the "hip driven" part. It is mechanically impossible, though widely taught. Any land based sport that uses body rotation depends on feet being shoulder width or more apart, think golf swing or karate punch, or stepping into the action, think baseball pitcher. You need a firm anchor on the ground to generate the rotational forces, and they are strictly for pushing some thing away from you. When it comes to swimming, there is NOTHING for the feet and lower body to anchor on to generate rotation. The primary action in swimming is more of the pulling action and not pushing, though throwing arms forward can help a little bit. So, what is the anchor used to generate the pulling action? It is in the pulling arm. If you watch any swimmer who has their kick and pulling properly linked, you will note that the pulling arm gets just into the power phase of the pull, at about 45 degrees and then the kick on the same side happens. Feres Ksebati (I think) the Swim Pro guy did a video with Rowdy Gains a while back and he finally agreed with this view. The thing with the shoulders is that they rotate independently from each other while the hips are fused and one joint, so if one goes up, the other goes down. Without exception, any swimmer who has their kick and shoulder rotation correctly linked, the shoulder rotation initiates with the pulling arm, and then the recover arm completes the shoulder rotation. This is exactly what you do when swimming catch up drill. Feres and I argued about that for a couple of years.... Now, the gallop or loping style. The thing that sets this style apart from more conventional freestyle is that the arm pull is an off beat pull. Ariarne Titmus swims more standard freestyle with an even cadence, and she breathes on a 2, 2, 4 beat/pull pattern. This is where there is always one arm in the front quadrant. Katie Ledecky, Summer McIntosch and ALL of the male swimmers use the gallop style which has an uneven cadence. They also breathe on every other arm pull. The breathing arm stays extended for a short while, then a quick 1, 2 pull, then again the slight pause. This also results in a slightly higher head position to breathe, then the head and shoulders go slightly under water which results in a slight porpoise action. There is less drag when under the water, in part due to surface tension and also because the bow wave is not as big. I have yet to see a comprehensive video about how this all works. With the gallop style, the breathing side has both arms in the front quadrant, but the pulling arm on the other side is half way through the pull when the recover arm on the non breathing side enters the water. I may have to correct this since I am trying to imagine this while not being in the pool. Look at any male swimmer from underwater view. For me, the gallop style is a natural. I tried for years to breathe every 3rd arm stroke, but after 100 or so yards, I was gasping. My over arm side stroke is also gallop style. I HAVE to breathe every other arm stroke. In swimming, if you get behind in your oxygen intake, you can never catch up. I would think that maybe this is why Ariarne can beat Katie in the 200 and 400, but not in the 800 and 1500 freestyle, she is running out of oxygen. Some one should take one of those 02 meter things and put it on her finger after she finishes a 400 or 800...
Some interesting well thought points which most of which I agree with , but I still believe and know in my own swimming that initiating from the hip is more than possible..I’m not saying there is no anchor point that happens in the pull with this technique, simply that the whole stroke begins its power action from the hip and the rest follows The point of naming it Hip Driven is more for the swimmer to visualize a certain way of swimming , I think you would agree with me there..you just went a little deeper with the technical aspects that coincide with swimming like this..it’s a style that looks and feels hip driven ..Thorpe is a perfect example of this
I have been trying to understand this concept for years, and it makes no sense to me at all, mostly because of mechanics. All body rotation comes from the shoulders in swimming. I made this same comment to Gary Hall over at Race Club, and he commented, Hmm, even on the 50 meter sprint, the pulling arm engages slightly before the recover arm.
The way I see this is in hip driven the power of hip rotation is coming very early to the upper body and transmitted in the arm in the « pull phase » (one extreme is Adam Walker: from 90 degrees on the side the hips rotates first then comes the kick to accentuate the rotation and only then the pull; roll-kick-pull) In the shoulder driven the arms is already at the late pull or in the push phase when the hip rotation comes adding more power. Total Immersion calls their technique bodydriven as the hips transmit their rotative power in the middle of the stroke and hips and shoulders seems to rotate at the same time. What I think is that the difference is mainly a matter of timing, a good transmission of maximal power coming from hip rotation (using the kick and the momentum) is key. Probably the use of hip power in the early phase of the stroke (hip driven) is more efficient (consuming less energy) and helps for longer distances. The use of the « hip power » later in shoulder driven style helps to get an acceleration at the end of the stroke movement with a strong « push phase » using all the length of the stroke, accelerating as much as possible at the end of the stroke and gaining in speed but probably using more energy. The gallop is more complicated to understand. What I think: a key factor is that the head rotation for breathing and the head getting as much under water after to create less waves comes into the equation (probably nobody would gallop if using snorkel…) and that momentum is used to create energy transmitted in the stroke…but my explanation is probably incomplete or not right at all…
Okay, slow mo of Ian Thorpe freestyle. His pulling arm engages before his hip pivots, clearly. This is the point I make. The pulling arm starts the body rotation in the shoulders, and the rest of the body follows. ruclips.net/video/-8egC7PbOME/видео.html
Great insights guys! @robohipy you sound like a very technical minded person, which is awesome, just don’t let the technical side of things make you loose the point . The stroke LOOKS hip driven , and that’s why it’s called that for teaching..the hips are more involved when it comes to power than in other styles
front crawl is the official name of the stroke many refer to as freestyle. It’s the fastest stroke so when there is an option of freestyle at swim meets , everyone swims front crawl
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Which type of freestyle comes more naturally to you ? Shoulder driven, hip driven or hybrid? Let’s us know below!👇
Besides the professional content, the takeouts are fabolous!! I feel you totally, happens to everyone recording.
Haha thank you! We were debating whether or not to put the outtakes in, thanks for the feedback!
Thanks! Using these drills next time I’m in the pool! ❤
Great ! Let me know how they helped!
Fantastic info… thanks!❤❤❤
Thank you! 🙏
I love this video! The connection hip-shoulder is such an important aspect of swimming! But not many people understand and talk about this. Thanks to have made this video. Have you seen videos of Katie Ledecky with her 2 beat kick, for example in the 1500m? It’s very impressive to see the strong connection she has between hip and upper body, we almost see the « power » from her hips transmitting to her stroke. She is known to have a shoulder driven freestyle from what I’ve read but I see so much power coming from the hips and it seems to me that they are rotating slightly before the shoulders….hybrid maybe… what do you think? Another thing I notice is that she has a stronger kick with the opposite side of her breath (when bringing the head back from breathing) I do the same. Do you have a stronger kick on this « opposite to breathing side » too?
Thanks for the comment and questions , yes Katie Ledecky I would classify as a hybrid stroke, she’s amazing no doubt . With the hybrid stroke and breathing there is a little extra power coming from the kick especially when breathing. I do try to imitate this myself when breathing, though my stroke is quite different looking that Katie’s 😄
I breath to the left, so the right side I have a tendency to rotate less….something that helps me is to lightly look to the right and that automatically lift my shoulder a bit
Interesting 🤔 maybe you have the makings of a hybrid freestyle…
@@siskatrainingsystems Did you try that? Next time, instead to look straight down, look to the right (or left, depending on your breath side) and see if there is a difference. It also help me my neck on long distance swimming
Greetings from Michigan
Yes tried it, I can see how that helps you, thank you for the greetings! Must be getting cooler quick up in Michigan now😄
Hmm, looking at this today and flashing back, I consider exercise and hot sauce to be alike. If it don't make you sweat, you aren't doing it right! I am one of those very heavy sweaters though.....
Haha that’s a good one😅
Well, going to disagree with you on the "hip driven" part. It is mechanically impossible, though widely taught. Any land based sport that uses body rotation depends on feet being shoulder width or more apart, think golf swing or karate punch, or stepping into the action, think baseball pitcher. You need a firm anchor on the ground to generate the rotational forces, and they are strictly for pushing some thing away from you. When it comes to swimming, there is NOTHING for the feet and lower body to anchor on to generate rotation. The primary action in swimming is more of the pulling action and not pushing, though throwing arms forward can help a little bit. So, what is the anchor used to generate the pulling action? It is in the pulling arm. If you watch any swimmer who has their kick and pulling properly linked, you will note that the pulling arm gets just into the power phase of the pull, at about 45 degrees and then the kick on the same side happens. Feres Ksebati (I think) the Swim Pro guy did a video with Rowdy Gains a while back and he finally agreed with this view. The thing with the shoulders is that they rotate independently from each other while the hips are fused and one joint, so if one goes up, the other goes down. Without exception, any swimmer who has their kick and shoulder rotation correctly linked, the shoulder rotation initiates with the pulling arm, and then the recover arm completes the shoulder rotation. This is exactly what you do when swimming catch up drill. Feres and I argued about that for a couple of years....
Now, the gallop or loping style. The thing that sets this style apart from more conventional freestyle is that the arm pull is an off beat pull. Ariarne Titmus swims more standard freestyle with an even cadence, and she breathes on a 2, 2, 4 beat/pull pattern. This is where there is always one arm in the front quadrant. Katie Ledecky, Summer McIntosch and ALL of the male swimmers use the gallop style which has an uneven cadence. They also breathe on every other arm pull. The breathing arm stays extended for a short while, then a quick 1, 2 pull, then again the slight pause. This also results in a slightly higher head position to breathe, then the head and shoulders go slightly under water which results in a slight porpoise action. There is less drag when under the water, in part due to surface tension and also because the bow wave is not as big. I have yet to see a comprehensive video about how this all works. With the gallop style, the breathing side has both arms in the front quadrant, but the pulling arm on the other side is half way through the pull when the recover arm on the non breathing side enters the water. I may have to correct this since I am trying to imagine this while not being in the pool. Look at any male swimmer from underwater view.
For me, the gallop style is a natural. I tried for years to breathe every 3rd arm stroke, but after 100 or so yards, I was gasping. My over arm side stroke is also gallop style. I HAVE to breathe every other arm stroke. In swimming, if you get behind in your oxygen intake, you can never catch up. I would think that maybe this is why Ariarne can beat Katie in the 200 and 400, but not in the 800 and 1500 freestyle, she is running out of oxygen. Some one should take one of those 02 meter things and put it on her finger after she finishes a 400 or 800...
Some interesting well thought points which most of which I agree with , but I still believe and know in my own swimming that initiating from the hip is more than possible..I’m not saying there is no anchor point that happens in the pull with this technique, simply that the whole stroke begins its power action from the hip and the rest follows
The point of naming it Hip Driven is more for the swimmer to visualize a certain way of swimming , I think you would agree with me there..you just went a little deeper with the technical aspects that coincide with swimming like this..it’s a style that looks and feels hip driven ..Thorpe is a perfect example of this
I have been trying to understand this concept for years, and it makes no sense to me at all, mostly because of mechanics. All body rotation comes from the shoulders in swimming. I made this same comment to Gary Hall over at Race Club, and he commented, Hmm, even on the 50 meter sprint, the pulling arm engages slightly before the recover arm.
The way I see this is in hip driven the power of hip rotation is coming very early to the upper body and transmitted in the arm in the « pull phase » (one extreme is Adam Walker: from 90 degrees on the side the hips rotates first then comes the kick to accentuate the rotation and only then the pull; roll-kick-pull) In the shoulder driven the arms is already at the late pull or in the push phase when the hip rotation comes adding more power. Total Immersion calls their technique bodydriven as the hips transmit their rotative power in the middle of the stroke and hips and shoulders seems to rotate at the same time. What I think is that the difference is mainly a matter of timing, a good transmission of maximal power coming from hip rotation (using the kick and the momentum) is key. Probably the use of hip power in the early phase of the stroke (hip driven) is more efficient (consuming less energy) and helps for longer distances. The use of the « hip power » later in shoulder driven style helps to get an acceleration at the end of the stroke movement with a strong « push phase » using all the length of the stroke, accelerating as much as possible at the end of the stroke and gaining in speed but probably using more energy. The gallop is more complicated to understand. What I think: a key factor is that the head rotation for breathing and the head getting as much under water after to create less waves comes into the equation (probably nobody would gallop if using snorkel…) and that momentum is used to create energy transmitted in the stroke…but my explanation is probably incomplete or not right at all…
Okay, slow mo of Ian Thorpe freestyle. His pulling arm engages before his hip pivots, clearly. This is the point I make. The pulling arm starts the body rotation in the shoulders, and the rest of the body follows.
ruclips.net/video/-8egC7PbOME/видео.html
Great insights guys! @robohipy you sound like a very technical minded person, which is awesome, just don’t let the technical side of things make you loose the point . The stroke LOOKS hip driven , and that’s why it’s called that for teaching..the hips are more involved when it comes to power than in other styles
Freestyle is an EVENT in a swimming meet whereas FRONT CRAWL is one of a number of swimming strokes.
You're welcome.
front crawl is the official name of the stroke many refer to as freestyle. It’s the fastest stroke so when there is an option of freestyle at swim meets , everyone swims front crawl
I got nothing from this.
Sorry to hear that , did you already know what type of freestyle you have?