Distance in Fencing (HEMA)
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- This was unscripted so it's not as smooth as usual. Everything can be countered and fencing has limitless outcomes. This is just a good rule to understand when your safest and most exposed.
Feeling is Liechtenauer's answer to reacting faster, but that's still as your entering distance and not just staying there for multiple steps. We get away with it a lot in HEMA because we know our training partners so well and we're not scared.
0:00 German System
0:56 4 Distances
2:44 In Distance
5:36 Quotes 
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Succinct video, I really appreciate the simple way you explained distance and ways to gauge it advantageously during a bout.
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
The "At Distance" also exists in Japanese swordsmanship as "issoku-itto-no-maai", or the "distance of one step and one blow" loosely translated from memory, and it's one of the cardinal distances there.
From my experience, close distance needs to be divided into two as well.
Haven't really named them, but I guess Outer and Inner work, they're similar to Bruce Lee's division between Trapping and Grappling range. "Outer" where you can still see the arms, the head etc. with the swords still generally between your bodies, and then "Inner" where you're so close and the swords are so pressed between your bodies or held so high or to the side(usually with one hand having let go) that you just can't use many techniques reasonably. Like, nearly all of Fiore's Stretto become useless in the Inner distance, since they're based on visual cues. (See the tip of his sword=> snatch the tip of his sword with your left hand. See the elbow => go for the elbow. See the hilt => go for the hilt. See his face behind the swords => pommel him in the face, etc.)
The former is good for clean, technical finishes, disarms and the like, while the latter is often messy and chaotic, requiring either a takedown, abandoning the sword altogether, or then half-swording to impose order into all the chaos. There's obviously a lot of crossover since you can still rush in from Outer into Inner to do things like Durchlauffen, but most techniques which focus on controlling the sword, hands or arms become nearly useless and if you don't make that distinction, people tend to get stuck in the Inner and then end up pushing each other for 5-10 seconds without either gaining any advantage. So usually the bigger person wins or then whoever "gives up" and just punches the other in the face in our rulesets(though I personally question the power behind a blow at that range with so poor a posture...). I also sort of feel like if you add in the dagger into longsword sparring(only done it a few times) that in the Outer range it's suicide and you just get run down since you've taken a hand off the sword, while in the Inner where swords are nearly useless it's an instant "win" even if the opponent manages to get an advantageous position or about to takedown you.
Nice video, very succinct and clear.
Thank you. That is a very good distinction that I just clumped together. In all German manuscripts, both in wrestling (ringen), and armed systems, we see that division listed in techniques. "Wrestling at the arms" followed by "wrestlings at the body". My primary focus for this was just getting the "in distance" concept further out there. But thats a good piece that should be added in a more detailed video.
@@superiorhema Oh, nice! Do you know any specific manuscripts that go into that? I decided to finally read Meyer and some of the glosses on Liechtenauer, so would love to add some of that stuff into the reading log, too.
@@Sinistralian Oh cool! Yes, the "von danzig" and "Ringeck" will definitely have them. Most full zettel sources will, not all are intact. It will be in the Durchlauffen (running through) section near the end. It will say roughly "here mark when he runs in" or "another wrestling at the body". Then it will have "here mark another wrestling at the sword" or "arms." It will also go through a bit of why you choose. Often "if his hands are low", and then with those little pieces of information you can recognize what's happening in all the smaller anonymous sources with less details.
Master Ott jud has dozens of his MS found. Its 1400s wrestling and is divided on "Wrestling to the arms" then "to the body." Highly recommend reading his stuff for wrestling practice. You'll come across positions in Fiore but instead of the counter move its the aggressive option.
You'll get some explicit ones in Meyers dagger section, but it will be a lot more "bread crumbs" in the weapon sections for this specific subject.
@@superiorhema Alright, thanks!
I like to add a distance just outside of krieg where I feel my body and head are safe but my hands in longpoint are not. Helps me keep my hands safe because it forces me to commit to a cut instead of just cutting at the persons sword, which leaves me open to chasing cuts to my hands.. if that makes any sense.
Ya I get what your saying. All of "In distance" is sort of a gradient. If they can hit you I'd still just call it in distance, and different things are more common with different fencers. So that concept doesn't quite connect with my fencing as much. I'd assume that we could be in krieg, but his swords just not there, ergo I was caught stationary in distance.
The german system talks about three, Fiore has 3 sword crossings, that rapier system I quote has 4. You can get really specific and make a division system that works for you, we see the blade divided into 2-3-4 and up to 16 parts by different masters.
Very insightful video !
From which manuscript is the quote at the end of the video ? Cheers !
Thank you! Mostly 3227a and one Meyer, and I think one Ringeck. This was just a fast informal video. I have a Zettel episode planned to actually go through the primary sources.
@@superiorhema thanks for the info! Looking forward to the video :)