Why More Aircraft Don't Have Forward Swept Wings
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Episode 172 guest Rogers E. Smith describes his experiences flying the NASA X-29.
Watch the full interview here: • Rogers E. Smith: the T...
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Was fascinated by the X-29 - so to hear about it from test pilots involved in the program is just the best thing. Thank you so much for arranging this interview, Jello.
You’re welcome.
I absolutely loved the full interview, it just blew my mind that a person could have such an amazing career AND BE SO HUMBLE! The full interview is a “keeper”! Thank you for your efforts!!
I fully agree! I believe that people who are good Human beings and competent proffesionals often are… The full interview is a pleasure to Watch and listen to, and I didn’t just once look at the clock! That don’t happen very often with 2+ hour interviews…! Thanks!
That's because this man decided to put brains 🧠 and heart ♥ WELL in front of Ego!...
Just in case anyone actually believed that Top Gun's narrative of Pete Mitchell making it into his 50's as a captain and test pilot after buzzing towers, violating the rules of engagement by ignoring the hard deck and attempting an unplanned, unauthorized flight to break 10K mph; The pilot mentioned here was kicked off a test program for doing an unauthorized aileron roll. LOL
Yeah, but he wasn’t saved by his coolness factor, but instead by his buddy who was a 4-star admiral.
Just in case anyone actually believed it was based on true events Jurassic Park is actually fake
Mach 10 isn't even 8k mph.
I recently saw one of the 2 X-29 planes at the USAF museum in Dayton, Ohio. Very cool to see something I remember seeing in aviation magazines growing up.
I saw the X-29 fly over my base housing twice at Wright-Patterson AFB in the late 80s. I was soooo excited to recognize it and started screaming to everyone, LOOK! LOOK! it''s an X-29!!!!!!!!
Erudition. Thoroughly educated. Institutionalized skills. The knowledge and experience this gentleman has is priceless. Absolute treasure trove of knowledge.
THANK YOU for asking that question! The X-29 was a favorite of mine as a kid too.
The X-29 proved a delight to fly, so much so that test pilot Chuck Sewell could not resist the temptation to roll the aircraft on one of its first flights, before it was cleared to do so.
The story back at Long Island was that Chuck Sewell performed the unscripted roll to be removed from the 4th flight. The first 4 test flights had a bonus of $75K (as I recall) for the test pilot. Mr. Sewell knew he would be removed from the 4th flight and the back up pilot, Kurt Schroeder, would fly the last bonus flight.
I worked at Grumman during the development of the X-29. Though I did not work on it, it was executed very well and was built fairly quickly. The wings were very thin and the nose section is from an F-5. Just a brilliant program.
During my senior year at the University of Kansas (1981) I designed a forward swept wing, canard, 80 passenger, pusher turbo prop short haul commercial airplane for the annual AIAA student airplane design competition which included a detailed structural design of the wing which was composite. I took 3rd in that national competition. Roll forward 10 years and I graduated as part of The AF Test Pilot School class 91B.
DO AN AILERON ROLL!!!
You're Fired!
An absolute cracking episode Jello. Thank you.
I built a few models with swept forward wings....at that scale there were no flex problems, but the pitch response was always pretty violent and had a tendency to self augment. There were no other control surfaces, but the configuration worked although I did not pursue it as the advantages were not really there. There were better ways to get good pitch response without sacrificing the spin performance, so I reverted to a more conventional layout.
This was back in the 1960s.... interesting exercise.
Easily one of my all-time favorites, pure looks-wise.
It also has an F404, so that automatically makes me biased towards it...
Some fun facts: the X-29 has appeared in differet mediums as a fully weaponized fighter, namely the Manga Area 88 (writted by Kaoru Shintani), and Ace Combat.
Sadly, the chapters for the Area 88 Manga in which the X-29 never made it stateside, but there were licensed model kits of it that did.
F110 engine? I thought it was an F404?
@@cab6273 It appears as though you are actually correct
I can't explain why, but I always thought it used an F110
The X-29 was also featured in Jane's ATF Gold. Was a hell of a dogfighter when loaded up with AMRAAMs and Sidewinders. I miss my teenage years.
A friend had this RC glider with swept forward wings...the thing was unique to fly.
You could dance around stall much easier than without the forward sweep.
Planes are so much fun!
Was it the Toucan slope glider?
This was an amazing guest. Very interesting man.
Flipping the stick back and forth for Oscillation, holy moly! 😱
Hey and Thanks for making these videos , I enjoy watching them .
The "because we felt like it" plane.
WOW you dnt need an EGO when you are this bloody good , what a great story this bloke has ,
Was at Gruman at Edward's several times. Fascinating plane
saw the x29 at the paris air show around 85, it was a static display on its side with a viewing stand, and I was part of the navy flight test for the x31 @ vx23 salty dogs late 90 early 2000`s
Everyone talking about the aileron roll resulting in a firing missed the parts of the conversation where it was stated that these control systems weren't tuned in yet, and the aircraft has a 0.12 second diversion time. They weren't expecting a roll, what if the control system's tuning wasn't capable of keeping it right yet? An eighth of a second and the aircraft is pointed backwards, likely in multiple pieces. That is a BIG DEAL.
This was my first model airplane back in 1996ish.
Thank you for the clip and full interview.
The explanation here is amazing 🤩 thank you 🙏
Rogers E. Smith is a VERY interesting man. GREAT interview!
If you haven't been to the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, I can't recommend it highly enough. Free museum, free parking. You need at least two days to do justice to it. Yes, they have an X-29.
I used to take swept wing balsa gliders, North Pacific Stratos if I remember correctly and turn the wings around to a forward sweep when I was a kid in the late 60’s. Didn’t fly worth a flip but they looked cool. Didn’t know I was on to something back then.
Flight control system was actually 6 channels - 3 digital 3 analog.
The "Aero Books" X-29 book mentioned Charles being "restricted" from flying in the program after the third, vender-run test flight with the unauthorized roll - but it also shows him having a total of 5 flights, so he appears to have gotten a couple more flights in at a later point (possibly on vender test flights for the second aircraft).
At the time of this plane being built, NOBODY commercial was doing composite construction - that was entirely the domain of "Experimantal" class aircraft like the Rutan models.
Canards WERE known - reference the SAAB Viggen model among others - and forward swept wings were very rare but not unknown - they mention the WW2 German experimental bomber that used them, there was also a german business jet that used them in the 1960s-1970s.
Fly by wire I think was also new, or at least the digital version was.
Stealth killed the FSW for military aircraft, but I have never understood why so few business jet makers (and even the commercial airline makers) have mostly ignored it. With the use of composite materials, the weight penalty isn't a significant factor any more.
There is a story of Joe Engle doing an unplanned aileron rock on the X-15. He was reprimanded but not fired. (Told by him.)
I remember seeing info about the X-29 when I was a kid in the 90s, looked so cool.
Did he experience/talk about the X-53 active aeroelastic wing work that NASA did? The concept seemed very promising; was always curious why it wasn’t pursued further
Hey guys, thanks for doing what you have done to help our nation and the aviation industry as a whole.
The HFB 320 Hansa business jet had forward swept wings and was manufactured from 1964 to 1973.
The X29 was such a unique and gorgeous futuristic looking airplane.. In the 80ies we as kids expected most planes would end up looking like that by now
Thanks, instant subscribe.
Welcome!
I saw on an old TV show - Extreme Machines I think - they finally dog fought it against an F 18 phone booth style . There was a graphic of the 2 aircraft falling in a tight spiral turning into one another along with the audio of the pilots grunting . The X 29 won but it took a few turns . Sounded like those pilots were working hard to win .
Any self-respecting fighter pilot would. I wonder if they switched airplanes and did it again.
@@FighterPilotPodcast I don't recall . The show also featured the best F16 demo I've seen . Now this was early 1990's and I got the impression it was a company pilot and they were trying to sell F16's at the Paris airshow or something . This pilot plugged in the burners , took off and left them on for the entire show constantly turning like a stunt plane in a box . I've looked for it and haven't been able to find it .
With the appropriately timed flyby at 7:15??
Got up to check who was driving past the house, so fast...
Used to always see the x29 at the LA Science museum.
Take a look at the Hansa Jet. It was a forward swept wing designed and flown in the 60’s.
I grew up with the X-29 and F-4 posters on my walls. Still have my F-4 poster after 30 years.
Generation X "must have" wall poster
Hearing Grummans name, they would have access to Japan's Airplanes after ww2, it is obviously not a Shindin J7 but I bet that was a huge inspiration for the idea.
The German had a Italian Bird, a Bugatti believe it or not since the overran Europe in 1939 that use the forward swept wing, they did not pursue the idea and they tried everything.
X-31, F-18A HARV, and F-16 MATV were the most maneuverable manned fighter aircraft developed by US aerospace. It is unfourtunate that USAF and US Navy did not see sufficient advantage in TVC on in service squadron aircraft to justify expense.
Lots of 5-gen fighters have forward swept wings. Aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 have a clipped delta wing configuration with a reverse sweep on the rear. Look at the X-29 from above and then draw a line connecting the wing tips to the fuselage at the root of the front canards. Then fill in the area left over between the wings and canards. The forward or reverse sweep on the rear edge on the F-22 and F-35 aren't as dramatic as the X-29 but Northrop's YF-23 had a very dramatic rear reverse sweep that was equivalent. Plus once thrust vectoring matured and was integrated to top-line fighters then aerodynamics aren't the only solution.
That... is very much stretching the definition of "Forward Swept Wing", It's like saying "all cars use square wheels if you took a square and rounded it out".
Rog has a way of explaining aerodynamics and other things, so that someone with out an engineering degree will understand. I like Rog.
Wish it was made to production
What an amazing man!
Great video...👍
What do you think about the Sukhoi Su-47?
I'm impressed he managed to keep a Starfighter in the air at speeds under 250kts 😉
Its nothing as compared to what PAF pilots achieved with F-104. They became absolute masters with this highly unstable and dangerous aircraft even employing in reconnaissance and dog fighing role apart from its interceptor role.
The right stuff
I think with modern materials that have more strength this design can make a return
Yo Joe
5:42 *STILL waiting for the answer to the question in the TITLE of this video*
6:32
He directly answers it at the end.
As said he does answer why, but the aircraft was a test bench for technology, hth
What about the X-30 Conquest? I had one of those.
Does it have forward swept wings?
@@FighterPilotPodcast Yes. Small, maneuverable, 2-engine, 1-pilot. It has little Canards, placed even with the bubble canopy as well as small rear horizontal stabilizers and outward-angled twin vertical stabilizers. Most importantly, shark-mouth nose art. G.I. Joe released it in 1986.
@@michaellee4276 ah, I see.
My grandfather built these things at Grumman.
He copied the German design.
The CTP Mr. Smith won't mention is Steve Ishmael. If you know, you know. Enough said.
How would adding modern digital fly-by-wire control systems to this technology improve flight characteristics?
By automatically making minor adjustments to flight controls regardless of pilot input. If you were to look at planes with FBW like the F-22, F-35 and F-16 in flight with your own two eyes you would notice the flight controls twitching in flight as to keep the airplane mostly straight in flight. Analog planes like the F-14 and F-15C/D and older variants don’t do this so the pilot has to constantly keep a hand on the stick.
@@SonOfAB_tch2ndClass It was specifically because I know about those systems on modern military planes that I posed the question about retrofitting similar technology to the X-29
I always thought that the X-29, and related designs, was meant to mislead the Russians and Chinese about the design direction our future aircraft would take.
Such an awesome looking plane. Oh and First!
You thumbnail quote is extremely misleading. I viewed because I’m familiar with this program. Unless one knows that this aircraft was intentionally unstable, it sounds like a structural defect was a issue. The opposite was true, much was learned about how carbon fiber could be tailored to control stiffness.
I don’t remember if it made the segment, but I did specifically ask the guest why more aircraft do not have forward swept wings, and his answer was with leading and trailing edge flaps there are other ways to get the same benefits
Yep. And those other methods were more cost effective and transferable. This aircraft’s biggest contribution was in the integration of the flight controls with computers. All of the stealth aircraft now and in the future build on its findings. Such that moving control surfaces may be replaced with jets of air changing airflow over surfaces to control flight.
Yep. And those other methods were more cost effective and transferable. This aircraft’s biggest contribution was in the integration of the flight controls with computers. All of the stealth aircraft now and in the future build on its findings. Such that moving control surfaces may be replaced with jets of air changing airflow over surfaces to control flight.
Yep. And those other methods were more cost effective and transferable. This aircraft’s biggest contribution was in the integration of the flight controls with computers. All of the stealth aircraft now and in the future build on its findings. Such that moving control surfaces may be replaced with jets of air changing airflow over surfaces to control flight.
Is the guy he won’t mention Chuck Yeager?
There are pilots and then there are pilots.
Quantum experiments at the grass root actually there less code without realizing metrics
Dude got fired for doing an unscheduled roll? I’d have tried to show up after everyone went home to take it out for an unscheduled joyride.
Tex Johnston didn't get fired for his barrel roll with the 707. There seems to be a better answer to you in the comments.
You’d probably think this guy designed the plane. He has a quite proficient aeronautical range of knowledge
Was there anything he wasn't allowed to confirm or talk about ie the Sighting of the unknown Aircraft shadowed by 2 F1-11s whilst being refuelled over the North Sea photographed by a Person on an Oil Rig
They've made wings that are swept back, forward, and straight. Why don't they make wings that are swept straight up or down.
It took amerikans decades to evaluate the German technology demonstrator design😅
He never answers a single question. Just talks.
i just sub yoiur channel thanks for all you do.
You’re welcome,.