I broke a cardinal rule of aviation
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- Опубликовано: 22 июн 2024
- I broke a cardinal rule of aviation - forgetting to fill up with fuel after landing and I get caught out.
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My instructor used to say, "Decide how long you'd like to live and fly accordingly".
Almost 400 quid to fill your bird up - now I remember why I fly a Rotax powered Microlight. 😉
Great video!
"better safe on the ground than unsafe in the air"
"Emergency landing procedure at night: Landing light on, if you don't like what you see.... landing light off"
I like that one.
"There's nothing more useless than runway behind you, altitude above you, and fuel in the bowser."
I'd say clichés are less useful than at least two of those:
Altitude available you means you can climb without infringements; fuel in the bowser means you can fill up at Redhill when you land ;)
Don't rub it in Scott.
@@TheFlyingReporter I'm here to help 🤡
Wonderful seeing Elstree (EGTR) where I flew happily between 1995 and 2010.
Great video. Keep up your good work.
As a member of a syndicate, we say any landing you can walk away from means you can go and put someone else’s name in the logbook. 🤣
I haven't heard that one before.
"There's never any point in having runway behind you." Dennis Pascoe, CFI, Cambridge Flying Group in the 80s, ex-Boscombe Down test pilot.
Brilliant, great to watch, I did some of my CPL training in an Arrow 1 from 1968!, great plane.
Recently got into watching your videos, really enjoy them.
I am a low hours PPL, got about 100hrs total half of which was the PPL course. Every time I watch your videos I learns something new or am reminded of something I should be doing more of! Thanks! 👍🏻
Well, thanks for following.
With you 100% - the important thing with any risk is always to assess it and plan how you're going to manage it. Sometimes management means doing something differently/with extra care, sometimes it means not doing something. It's down to the specific situation.
For VFR the 30 minutes reserve is a planning requirement, for non commercial operations it isn't a minimum landing reserve like airlines, so if you go into it that isn't a problem (obviously unless it is going to run out!)
Love the video! I see your plane every time I fuel up as I fly from Redhill :) Actually reassuring to hear your take on taking risks. As a new PPL I'm constantly anxious I'm going to be victim of the Killing Zone.
It all has to be calculated.
My favourite cliche is "Mummy, when I grow up I want to be a pilot". "I'm sorry darling, you can't do both".
I think the essence of the "better to be on the ground" and "if there's doubt..." cliches is safety. A competent pilot has a reasonable grasp of the risks and should be using TEM to mitigate or avoid them. Those cliches serve as reminders that decision making in aviation is an individual thing and not always based on an exact appreciation of all the variables on the day, so I view them as "OK, I've done my appreciation. I've ruled out all the things that would prevent me flying, but lets step back for a minute and review it all".
One of my favourite aviation jokes is,
Q:"How do you know if there is a helicopter pilot in the room at a party?"
A:"He'll tell you"
Interestingly, just to be gender equal....it is only mainly true of male helicopter pilots! 😁
Great video, thanks for sharing. It was really interesting to see the decisions being made. I had a similar "close call" a few months back although in flight. I diverted on the way back for fuel as my partner was with me and then had way more fuel left in the tanks that I had calculated. It still feels like the right decision.
Thanks.
A gliding club I used to fly at were fans of “If you don’t know, ask!”
That little gem got wheeled out every time someone made a mistake. Don’t think they’d ever heard of ‘just culture’ there…
I'm mot a pilot but I have heard this cliché : Always fly the aeroplane; never let the aeroplane fly you.
I think it's about situational awareness and anticipating what comes next so that your brain is always a step or two ahead of the current situation and, therefore, always a step ahead of your aeroplane.
Thanks for another interesting video. One comment - at 10:35, as part of the briefing for Blackbushe to Elstree, you said you were going to turn left to enter the 'corridor' - I was pleased to see that you (correctly) turned right. Although, with still close to full fuel, a left turn would have been practical!
Haha. Yes - I spotted this after uploading and I couldn't be bothered to re-edit it. Sorry for my laziness. Avgas brain.
That confused me too!
Another excellent video :)
"When Pontius was a pilot."
Or earlier: "When Pontius was is Basic" [flight training]
Interesting video and lovely filming as always. Where I instruct we teach the NCO minimum fuel requirement of 30 mins as you outlined but also encourage students to add sufficient fuel for a diversion from overhead the destination (which comes from IFR).
Your video is also insightful from a human factors point of view. Even GA pilots have a desire to “press on” and do the flight if they planned to do it. The car journey would have been perhaps just over an hour each way.
Also coping with stress if the workload had increased. As a more experienced pilot you have spare mental capacity whereas newer pilots - many of whom I see have already commented - would likely have less.
I remember it was a long while before I would dare take off with less than tabs in a PA28. It feels like you were “lucky” on this day. You landed with a lot more fuel than you’d expected. This does raise the question, what if things had gone in the other direction as your estimate was clearly some way off.
Thank you for continuing to make these videos.
Hi Jonno. You make some really good points. Answering your last question first. I'm the only one flying the aeroplane and have a reasonable grip on fuel burn based on many previous flights, and so I know that my estimates are if anything very conservative and so I had no doubt that I had enough in the tanks - barring any sabotage/undetected leaks etc. The fuel planning calculations for this flight, involved a diversion back to Redhill/Biggin Hill in the event of my destination being closed, with a 10 minute buffer on top of that as well as a 30 minute legal reserve.
I too do prefer to 'know' exactly what I have in the tanks, and usually depart with tabs or more, because a known quantity is far better than an estimated one. I totally think that is best practise.
I could have decided not to fly, but was confident in the numbers, and the plan B and C. It comes back to my point about 'if there's any doubt there's no doubt' cliche. There was doubt here, but the risks were calculated.
Yes, you have no shortage of diversions and point well made re your conservative fuel estimates. I too like to watch how much fuel goes in when a tank is filled against my guess of what we have left. It helps sharpen the “by eye” estimates.
Just wondering why you didn't factor Fairoaks in for your fuel stop? Either as your first choice or the diversion if you got delays at Farnborough or BB. Fairoaks as1st choice would have eliminated having to cross Farnborough, (saving time) Fairoaks as the Alternate would have been closer and have had fuel which you said Redhill didn't.
I prefer Blackbushe to Fairoaks - when we went there I noticed the loose stones around the holding point which has put me off a bit. Fairoaks would have probably been my plan B if held up at Farnborough.
Hers one mostly for road travel, but I guess can also be for flying, "Its better to take time and get there than rush and not get there at all".
That's a good one.
My mum's version of this was harsher: better late at your destination than early at the cemetery.
On a day with the weather as it was and so many suitable diversion airfields I would have gone direct to Elstree as it is clear that you would have been overhead Elstree with your 30 min final reserve intact. If Elstree had become unavailable there would have been three airfields within ten minutes flying time to divert to. Yes you should be on the ground with your final reserve intact but the reason you have a final reserve is to allow for unforeseen circumstances. The ultra conservative fuel planning in GA is a result of unreliable fuel gauges, poor use of mixture control and lack of fuel flow indicators. Your demonstration of the correct use of the mixture control was refreshing but I would hazard a guess that most pilots fresh from their PPL course have never been taught to lean an engine correctly and have no idea how to set a flight manual defined power setting.
I don't think I'd have made Elstree with my estimated 30 minute reserve - as it turned out, I had more than estimated, but I couldn't have planned for Elstree based on my estimates.
@@TheFlyingReporter Being able to trust your fuel flow settings and how much fuel is in the tank are difficult things to do with the kit in must GA aircraft. With experience you have a clearer idea than most. Having reliable fuel flow information coupled with the GPS was am eye opener for me and has saved me a fortune as the mixture gets set accurately and I don’t Cary unnecessary fuel, this allows me to choose where to buy fuel at the best price. With your touring type flying your aircraft is crying out for a Garmin GI 275 engine monitor.
My favorite is: What are the three most important things in flying a fixed wing aircraft? The answer: Airspeed airspeed and airspeed!
I was caught out on the same day. I took IZ to Headcorn to fill up, as it's only 20 mins away, and watched some strange people jumping out of planes 😂
Time to spare, go by air. Gets on my nerves every time!
The fuel one is very true though and I'm guilty of saying it!
I quite like that one.
Yeah Jon that got the Bismarck too -Captain Lindemann waiving the chance to refuel in the Norwegian fjords sealing his fate. 😀😀😀
Well, luckily, I made it this time!
67 litres of fuel = Jon stressed
67 litres of fuel = a full fuel tank for me! 65 nominal tank size but I can squeeze 70 in. And ouch your refill bill
Haha Geoff!
Looking in your manual, there is always a way to fly economically. 55% power is what we used in the Comanche if we were not in a hurry and to save fuel, instead of 75% power. There is always the option of flying higher boost, lower revs. But even leaning properly can reduce fuel consumption at any altitude.
Which Comanche is yours? I have one and a second as a project based in South Wales (both 260s but one is a B model!) interesting to see if theres some more UK ones around!
@@smokingspitfire1197 I owned 260B G-AVGA from 1997 to 2005. Now owned by Gordon Moir based Derby. The best 4-6 seat tourer with exceptional speed and surprising short field performance. Far better than any Arrow, Lance or Saratoga due to laminar flow wing and all flush riveting. It had flown all over the world, including to Australia in 1969 in an air race and I believe to USA a few times recently.
@@johnball4826 AVGA is one of the nicest PA-24s around. I would love to reach out to the owner.
Hi there. Did you happen to be in the cafe at Bridgend Garden Centre a couple of weeks back? Perhaps whilst visiting EGPJ. I'm convinced my wife and I saw you there. If not, you have a very close look alike!!
I think I would have put in a couple of 5 gallon cans of Avgas from another source prior to take off, as inconvenient as that is. still better than running low.
You always have enough fuel to reach the scene of the crash.
"Hot, high and heavy" You really can have too much fuel sometimes. Always do your performance calculations.
If you had that much doubt over your fuel, why didn't you stop and fill up at a closer airfield? Seems like a lot of unnecessary stress. It looks like you didn't know how much fuel was in the tanks and needn't have worried if you had better information.
Thanks for sharing though. Interested in your reasoning and decision making
Why not go to Fairoaks for fuel, then get an Ascot-Burnham transit through Heathrow from there to Elstree?
Two questions there. I prefer Blackbushe - Last time I went to Fairoaks I noticed the area around the runway holding point was pretty poor with loose stones. And secondly, the Ascot Burnham route has to be flown at a height I don't like for safety, so avoid that in most cases.
Speed is life, altitude is life insurance
if you are thinking about fuel, you are low on fuel :)
First of all I enjoy your videos and like to see what it's like flying a similar aircraft to what I fly in a very different part of the world to me! But... "I know how much fuel I had 3 flights ago and worked it out from there" seems crazy to me. All of the planes I fly have dipsticks and I check the fuel in both tanks with the dipstick before EVERY flight. I know you can get a good feel for how much fuel the plane burns and often the estimated fuel is very close to the actual amount of fuel in the tank but it takes like 5 seconds extra in your preflight to dip the tanks and know the fuel quantity for sure. So many GA accidents / incidents are caused by fuel exhaustion so to me it just makes sense to know exactly how much fuel you have before every departure.
Due to the tank design on this aeroplane you can’t dip the last 100 liters or so because the tank is sloped. There is no fuel to dip below the filler cap.
@@TheFlyingReporter Wow ok that is interesting. Thanks for replying with the additional info. Have you considered installing an engine monitor with an accurate fuel flow sensor? I guess that wouldn't be cheap
I'm confused, where was the dip stick?
Don't be confused. If I'd dipped my tank it would have shown 0 fuel - it's not a flat bottom tank and at about 100 litres, the fuel is barely visible at the bottom of the filler hole.
When people say climbing to 2.5 rather than 2500!!
Yes, that would annoy me if I heard that.
Aviation clichees: 4 most useless things in aviation:
1. Yesterday's weather
2. Sky above
3. Runway behind
4. Fuel in the bowser
Generally I agree with 1 & 3. 2 is often, but not always, true. 4 sometime true (if your W&B can cope with it), however, 6 hours fuel for a 1 hour flight is excessive and detremental to performance.
I hadn't heard yesterday's weather before!
I hear 3 cited too often as grounds for not taking an intersection departure. If your performance allows it and it avoids a delay then good threat and error management should be utilised.
Final reserve for piston is 45 minutes not 30
Which country, which registration, which flight rules, which type of operation are you referencing this statement. I’m G reg, UK airspace, VFR, Non Complex operations.
@@TheFlyingReporter Hi Jon, it’s for both EASA and UKCAA, G-reg and any EASA registration.
30 minutes holding at 1500ft is for turbo jet aircraft and 45 minutes cruise power for piston.
Just finished CPL and MEIR and this was the planning minimum required for both and is also covered in both UK and EASA ATPL theory.
Sorry, just done some research. Part-NCO is 30 minutes day VFR by the looks of it. Part-CAT is 45.
Crazy, why can’t rules be simple and consistent…
You’ve gotta know YOUR rules eh. Had a few people take issue with this. But I do check these things before publication. That doesn’t make me infallible but I was pretty sure on this one.
@@TheFlyingReporter This is true, I’m still surprised it is less for NCO and even more surprised it is only 10 minutes if you are in sight of the airfield and TO/LDG airfield is the same. Must before nearly on fumes by that point!
One thing I did find interesting is that the final reserve has to be when you have parked (i.e not just on touchdown). So if you were to go into your final reserve whilst taxiing to stand this is still illegal and has to be reported to authorities. Assume this one is the same across the board but haven’t checked.
Better 20 minutes late in this life than 20 years early in the next, my instructor back in the 80s when reminding me not to rush my pre flight.
Great informative video , but with the cost of fuel bought as well that was without doubt the worlds most expensive sausage bap 😆
You're not wrong.
You said you had 47 litres in your tanks at Redhill. Surely that's way than you need to go from Redhill to Elstree, even anticlockwise around the TMA in your turbo PA28
I recall looking at that and seeing that it was too tight, when factoring in the potential for a diversion on top of a 30 minute reserve. I had to factor in the possibility of Elstree being closed on arrival and then needing to divert. Stopping at Blackbushe I still had enough to divert somewhere if the runway was suddenly blocked, for example.
Also, going through the nonsense with Farnborough for a high probability of an orbit before allowed into CAS and the added workload as a result. Personally, I would have gone anticlockwise around the TMA with FIVE airfields to choose from to divert and have a better view over the Thames
How do you measure fuel? Thought the arrow 3 had sloped tanks like my arrow 4. I have a GI375 with fuel gauges, very accurate. Looking in the tanks rather useless
It's very hard. I trust the book figures for fuel burn and I keep good records, and so after a flight I can estimate fuel remaining. Usually, I am on the conservative side - as demonstrated here. But, very difficult to measure on these tanks below about 100L as all you can see from the filler is the dry aluminium on the bottom of the tank.
@@TheFlyingReportercan’t you use a fuel dip stick? Once you’ve done a few refuels you can get an eye for how accurate it is.
With the angled tanks. The last 100L is not visible from the filler cap and not possible to dip.
Oh I see, not familiar with your aircraft type.
General aviation aircraft have pretty piss poor fuel measuring systems, regardless of any fancy avionics for displaying fuel amount-as the axiom goes garbage in garbage out. This differs from transport category aircraft which have capacitance probes spanning the wingspan so one has a very accurate measure of the amount of fuel. .
Cliche':
Written on the desk of my first jet airlines' Chief Pilot.
'A superior pilot is one who uses his superior judgment to avoid situations that might involve the use of his superior skills'
The thing is a cliché is only valid within some realm of contexts. E.g. I find the "every landing you can walk away from is a good landing" a good general yard stick, but that is just because of the contexts that come to my mind. I don't think of that cliché in a "wow, that was perilous, but everyone walked away, so ..."-situation, in which case I might disagree with that very same cliché.
I just find most of the cliches lazy. Why not say something else instead.
@TheFlyingReporter
Sure, that may certainly be an explanation.
On the other hand, I am not bright enough to explain something like "aviate, navigate, communicate" more succinctly than the cliché itself.
Then again, I didn't even know that the clichés were all that annoying - as you can see from my comments, I am not afraid of longwinded answers, but those can become annoying too.
Never pass Gas! ;)
Here one lol The three most useless things in aviation are the runway behind you, the altitude above you, and the fuel in the truck.
It's a good one Jeff.
The difference in fuel cost between Redhill and Blackbushe more than paid for that sausage bap
I'm saying nothing!
You need to land with 45 mins FINRES intact in a piston aeroplane, many including myself like to bump that up to 1 hour, 30 mins is only for turbine engines. Not meaning to sound judgmental just respectfully pointing out, commercial student here.
30 mins vfr
@@TheFlyingReporter fair point haha I honestly hadn’t come across that distinction but you learn something every day and apologies!
@@stevenbennett6838 a good pilot is always learning...
"If its not Boeing, I'm not going" has become "If it's Boeing, I'm not going....."
Piper PA-28R-201T Turbo Cherokee Arrow III with a TSIO-360 200 HP 6 Cyl - Aircraft Serial #: 28R-7703154
Love it. The cliché list is great.....they go on and on. I think others here have already quoted my top list!
Fuel wise, I remember back in the late 1980's a young chap who was fairly new to flying and a recently qualified PPL. I had a part time job at Fairoaks as ground crew and Fire crew. One sunny Saturday he turned up enthusiastically ready to take a trip to the Isle of Wight in a club PA28. He requested full fuel and commenced his walk round and pre flight. Then his passengers arrived in the car park. All three were pretty massive folk! They also had a fair number of reasonably large bags with them for a day out at the seaside, including an epic picnic.....he began to sweat a little as he realised the possible performance issues! Nonetheless, despite someone offering to help syphon off some fuel, he pressed on.....the take off was remarkable and how he didn't end up in the field beyond the end of the runway, I will never know. But incredibly, he made it and arrived safely for the day out and returned safely that evening. Lesson learned I suspect.🫣
This is why I didn't fuel - but now I try to make sure I leave the aeroplane with a bit more in the tanks!
The good old days :-)
Thank you for that fuel story.
Btw Jon, remember you are allowed to refuel twice. Fill the amount you know you are going to need after landing, then top up to match your flight plan before departure. People might think you are crazy, but I am sure there is a cliché to explain that one too.
The other consideration when running your tanks low is detritus blocking lines and the likelihood of condensation forming which needs no qualification. Don’t go faster than your Guardian Angel can fly Jon!