When I raced stock cars an old front end man showed me how to square a chassis and do alignments that actually made the car steer better and save tires. Most specifications are manufacturers ball park and can be improved on greatly if you understand how it all works and you take the time. We did it all with string and home made jigs like these. Lazer levels and digital protractors are cheap now and help with accuracy. After 35 years experience like you and knowing how it actually works people bring stuff to me to actually fix issues ignored by retail shops. This looks like a great product for the serious diy. Thanks Eric. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
I set the toe on a car in the 80’s. Using straight edges. I put 50,000 miles on the next set of tires. Car drove perfectly fine. I had the car professionally aligned for the previous tires and doubt if I got 20,000 miles after their alignment.
Haven’t we all fell sucker to bad shops. Two years ago I wanted to have a truck aligned. I had a mechanic friend look it over first. The ball joints and tie rod ends were all good. Took it in the shop charged me a diagnosis saying tie rod ends were bad. They were 100% good. A little play in the rack bushing. Which I did fix. I had an appointment for the alignment which they canceled knowing I would give them an earful. I took it to another shop which aligned it no problem. A shop I council bluffs Iowa. Firestone tires and Jenson tires. Back in the 80’s. A friends neighbor was having issues on the road she took her car in. They gave her a written estimate of $3,000 to fix. Cv joints and struts. She asked my friend if he could put a bandaid to get by until taxes came back. My friend looked confused. She had a 74’ nova. Rear wheel drive. No cv joints or struts. He walked over felt the tire. It had torn belts. We put the spare on problem fixed. The shop wanted to bill her $3,000 to replace a tire.
I’ve done alignments on many of my personal autos over the last 35 years using either a tape measure or more recently a nylon string. Haven’t had camber or caster issues, just toe adjustments that are effective when on a budget which is most of the time for me. If I can do away with spending money I don’t have to, life is good! Happy New Year Everybody!
My issue with these, which I use myself, is that how do you know you're getting all 4 wheels square with each other? If one side is toed in and the other is toed out you can still read zero toe, but now your steering wheel is no longer centered, which if you're aligning it with the steering wheel straight this could mean the new center isn't actually zero toe, or if its in the rear the back end is now drifting to one side.
You need to set the toe to zero (same front and back on both sides) with the steering wheel centered and then make final adjustments based on your cars specs.
Question on this toe method: So you've got the front wheels perfectly parallel with a slight toe in/out according to car's specification. But how do you know that the front wheels are pointing straight/squared from the rear wheel's reference?
@@FarpointFarmsso basically you would run a string or something parallel to the rear wheel to get one in line and then use that as the reference on the other front wheel, but if that's the case then why not just use both rear wheels as references for both front wheels?? I'm genuinely curious here not trying to be a dick
I changed a lower ball joint on my truck Thanksgiving weekend and took it to have the alignment checked to make sure nothing changed. Luckily he didn’t charge much to check it.
you have to set the tape measurement on both sides of the car right? so if you make an adjustment on the passenger side , you have to switch the tape measurers to the other side .. is that right?
The tape measures go from side to side on the car. You are measuring both front wheels at the same time with this kit. You have to center your wheel, and then adjust the tires in or out to get the correct toe. After you are done, re-center the wheel and recheck. It comes out pretty good!
@@FarpointFarms yeah , but if I have the even measurements on the driver side.. do I still need to bring the tape measurers to the passenger side tire? Most of the videos on youtube only have people adjusting the driver side.. that's what is confusing me. I appreciate the response.
I have 4 - 6 ft bessey parralel clamps. I attach them to each tire on my truck and use them as a sort of parralel winding stick. Its as close to accurate as I can get without going to a auto shop
Yup. The DIY way to ensure you have the wheel dead ahead is to wrap your seatbelt around the wheel after centering it. It stays pretty much put under the tension.
Well dammit - THAT is why I've had so much trouble setting mine up! I didn't get the little pins that go against the rim with mine. The plates always flop all over, so I've resorted to putting a sand bag on the far one (and it still moves!). Off to the lathe I go to make some parts....
If you have one plate up againt the opposite wheel and your measuring from it how do you know it is strait if it's not you will get an inaccurate measurement on the wheel you are working on.
No disrespect to the pros out there, but I haven't found one yet that is willing to take the time to align properly. I just paid for the last time - it is absolutely frustrating not to be satisfied with the job they were supposed to do. I'm buying these now and doing it myself.
I think this video makes toeplates out to be more than they are. Toeplates give a "meh" alignment. If you want to make sure that the front wheels are straight ahead with respect to the rears or centerline of the car, toeplates fail. Toeplates are a quick and dirty toe alignment but you do run the risk of having the fronts and rears pointing differently. Strings are the DIY method
I have a 2013 smart car and nobody wants to do it. Nobody says they can do it here with this thing work for mercemark car. I think it's because the car is too small. I don't know what's going on but i'm having a hard time to find somebody😮
the problem with this sort of alignment is that you are not aligning to the axis of rotation of the axles, but rather aligning to the wheel itself. No runout compensation, and even stock wheels will have some imperfections, not to even mention the condition of wheels that have been in use tens of thousands of miles. So there is no way that you will be as close. This is not to say that a person with DIY tools cannot do a DIY alignment. They can, but the tools to do it are far more than just a plate, and some tape measures.
Mmm. This is a "Good enough" alignment that has been used for nearly as long as cars have been on the road. It's similar to the bubble balancer I have for my tires. Not as good as a dynamic balance, but... Good enough.
@@FarpointFarms i understand... the thing is that if you don't do it properly then you don't know whether you are actually good enough or not. For example if your wheel has a runout of 0.65mm (Bosch did a study and found that steel rims typically were at 0.65mm and aluminum ones were 0.40mm), for a 17" wheel... you are talking about enough runout to throw your toe angles completely out of spec. For my SUV the front individual toe spec is 0.05 degrees toe in. 0.65mm runout would mean depending on where i measured (2 points) it could be right on, or be 0.17 degrees. It would randomly depend on where you chose the two points to be (or rather where the wheels decided to stop when you rolled the car in) to measure using the plate. i don't think that is what you really want. The professional alignment machines take care of this calculation during the roll backwards, then forwards portion. Its at that point where they calculate the actual rotation of the axle vs the 2d plane that connects all of them. The thing is... the target they use are mounted on clamps that themselves have play. That is why i developed my own tools. Because the dealership machine was not good enough for me.
You CANNOT align your wheels with these plates!!! These are to make Toe adjustment, but not to align your wheels. To align your wheels you STILL NEED TO CREATE A BOX AROUND THE VEHICLE!
@@FarpointFarmsI just watched you align the front wheel using the other front wheel as a point of reference. The front wheels are not aligned to the car itself, you still need an alignment lol.
The plates tell you the difference between them. but it does not show if one is in more than the other because they are only relative to eachother. Or was there a step missed?
i agree... these plates are only suitable to show if you have a toe in toe out or zero toe.and also for camber... but it doesnt tell you which wheels are toed in more than the other... the string with car in a box is still by far the most accurate to align the wheels
When I raced stock cars an old front end man showed me how to square a chassis and do alignments that actually made the car steer better and save tires. Most specifications are manufacturers ball park and can be improved on greatly if you understand how it all works and you take the time. We did it all with string and home made jigs like these. Lazer levels and digital protractors are cheap now and help with accuracy. After 35 years experience like you and knowing how it actually works people bring stuff to me to actually fix issues ignored by retail shops. This looks like a great product for the serious diy. Thanks Eric. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
thanks - People can really save a ton of money on alignments and tires with this, should have gotten one years ago
Howdy. Mr Brian, I'd love to learn how to Square up the chassis so I can align all the wheels properly. Do you have an email ?
I set the toe on a car in the 80’s. Using straight edges. I put 50,000 miles on the next set of tires. Car drove perfectly fine.
I had the car professionally aligned for the previous tires and doubt if I got 20,000 miles after their alignment.
Sounds like the "professionals" were not really professional.
Haven’t we all fell sucker to bad shops.
Two years ago I wanted to have a truck aligned. I had a mechanic friend look it over first. The ball joints and tie rod ends were all good. Took it in the shop charged me a diagnosis saying tie rod ends were bad. They were 100% good. A little play in the rack bushing. Which I did fix. I had an appointment for the alignment which they canceled knowing I would give them an earful.
I took it to another shop which aligned it no problem.
A shop I council bluffs Iowa. Firestone tires and Jenson tires. Back in the 80’s. A friends neighbor was having issues on the road she took her car in. They gave her a written estimate of $3,000 to fix. Cv joints and struts. She asked my friend if he could put a bandaid to get by until taxes came back. My friend looked confused. She had a 74’ nova.
Rear wheel drive. No cv joints or struts. He walked over felt the tire. It had torn belts. We put the spare on problem fixed. The shop wanted to bill her $3,000 to replace a tire.
I’ve done alignments on many of my personal autos over the last 35 years using either a tape measure or more recently a nylon string.
Haven’t had camber or caster issues, just toe adjustments that are effective when on a budget which is most of the time for me.
If I can do away with spending money I don’t have to, life is good!
Happy New Year Everybody!
I agree with you- save the money for something you really want in life
So would this work sir ?
Eric, did you ever do a part two as I’m not finding it?
I have not- Life keeps getting in the way and it is hard to find the time
My issue with these, which I use myself, is that how do you know you're getting all 4 wheels square with each other? If one side is toed in and the other is toed out you can still read zero toe, but now your steering wheel is no longer centered, which if you're aligning it with the steering wheel straight this could mean the new center isn't actually zero toe, or if its in the rear the back end is now drifting to one side.
True. If your car has 4 wheel alignments, this can cause a drift. I cure the steering wheel issue with a steering wheel lock.
What if the one wheel has more toe than the other wheel?
You need to set the toe to zero (same front and back on both sides) with the steering wheel centered and then make final adjustments based on your cars specs.
Thanks for the video, where is part 2?
Subscribe to my second channel. I'll be filming it shortly for that channel.
Question on this toe method: So you've got the front wheels perfectly parallel with a slight toe in/out according to car's specification. But how do you know that the front wheels are pointing straight/squared from the rear wheel's reference?
That is a limitation of this type of alignment. This works best on car with rear axles that have no adjustments.
@@FarpointFarmsso basically you would run a string or something parallel to the rear wheel to get one in line and then use that as the reference on the other front wheel, but if that's the case then why not just use both rear wheels as references for both front wheels?? I'm genuinely curious here not trying to be a dick
Did you ever poat the full alignment video. I tried looking on this on your other channel anf couldnt find it
I filmed it, but never posted it. Sorry!
@@FarpointFarmsi see. I was also looking for that video.
@@FarpointFarmsare you going to post ?😂
I changed a lower ball joint on my truck Thanksgiving weekend and took it to have the alignment checked to make sure nothing changed. Luckily he didn’t charge much to check it.
cool that you were able to do the ball joint and cooler that he did not charge much
you have to set the tape measurement on both sides of the car right? so if you make an adjustment on the passenger side , you have to switch the tape measurers to the other side .. is that right?
The tape measures go from side to side on the car. You are measuring both front wheels at the same time with this kit. You have to center your wheel, and then adjust the tires in or out to get the correct toe. After you are done, re-center the wheel and recheck. It comes out pretty good!
@@FarpointFarms
yeah , but if I have the even measurements on the driver side.. do I still need to bring the tape measurers to the passenger side tire? Most of the videos on youtube only have people adjusting the driver side.. that's what is confusing me. I appreciate the response.
I have 4 - 6 ft bessey parralel clamps. I attach them to each tire on my truck and use them as a sort of parralel winding stick. Its as close to accurate as I can get without going to a auto shop
But it does work! These simple alignments are nearly as good as the $150 you'll pay in town.
how are you going to tell the wheel is pointing straight? You could have both tire steered the same way and both your tape measure will read the same.
Yup. The DIY way to ensure you have the wheel dead ahead is to wrap your seatbelt around the wheel after centering it. It stays pretty much put under the tension.
@@FarpointFarms Sounds like a plan, Thanks!!
x2 this is the limitation of toeplates verses string method which sets the "straight ahead line " from the hubs
Great Video Boss!
Glad you liked it!
Well dammit - THAT is why I've had so much trouble setting mine up! I didn't get the little pins that go against the rim with mine. The plates always flop all over, so I've resorted to putting a sand bag on the far one (and it still moves!). Off to the lathe I go to make some parts....
Ha! Yup, that it certainly needed.
If you have one plate up againt the opposite wheel and your measuring from it how do you know it is strait if it's not you will get an inaccurate measurement on the wheel you are working on.
You need to lock your steering wheel straight ahead. You are not adjusting TOE on just one tire, you are adjusting total TOE
👍👍. Thank you Eric. I like that.
You are very welcome
No disrespect to the pros out there, but I haven't found one yet that is willing to take the time to align properly. I just paid for the last time - it is absolutely frustrating not to be satisfied with the job they were supposed to do. I'm buying these now and doing it myself.
Good call. You can 100% blame a bad alignment on one of two things. Poor training, or flat rate. Those two cause a lot of issues in the industry.
Good video. Thx
Glad you liked it!
Great piece of equipment ! Guess you had to wait until it warmed up to 20 something degrees to make this video :-)
You got that right!
I think this video makes toeplates out to be more than they are. Toeplates give a "meh" alignment. If you want to make sure that the front wheels are straight ahead with respect to the rears or centerline of the car, toeplates fail. Toeplates are a quick and dirty toe alignment but you do run the risk of having the fronts and rears pointing differently. Strings are the DIY method
Good to know- thanks for sharing
Good video. Save you some money doing it yourself. Ironman in Alabama 73s
I hope that this will help others save money too
I have a 2013 smart car and nobody wants to do it. Nobody says they can do it here with this thing work for mercemark car. I think it's because the car is too small. I don't know what's going on but i'm having a hard time to find somebody😮
Then this kit might be the answer!
the problem with this sort of alignment is that you are not aligning to the axis of rotation of the axles, but rather aligning to the wheel itself. No runout compensation, and even stock wheels will have some imperfections, not to even mention the condition of wheels that have been in use tens of thousands of miles. So there is no way that you will be as close.
This is not to say that a person with DIY tools cannot do a DIY alignment. They can, but the tools to do it are far more than just a plate, and some tape measures.
Mmm. This is a "Good enough" alignment that has been used for nearly as long as cars have been on the road.
It's similar to the bubble balancer I have for my tires. Not as good as a dynamic balance, but... Good enough.
@@FarpointFarms i understand... the thing is that if you don't do it properly then you don't know whether you are actually good enough or not. For example if your wheel has a runout of 0.65mm (Bosch did a study and found that steel rims typically were at 0.65mm and aluminum ones were 0.40mm), for a 17" wheel... you are talking about enough runout to throw your toe angles completely out of spec.
For my SUV the front individual toe spec is 0.05 degrees toe in. 0.65mm runout would mean depending on where i measured (2 points) it could be right on, or be 0.17 degrees. It would randomly depend on where you chose the two points to be (or rather where the wheels decided to stop when you rolled the car in) to measure using the plate. i don't think that is what you really want.
The professional alignment machines take care of this calculation during the roll backwards, then forwards portion. Its at that point where they calculate the actual rotation of the axle vs the 2d plane that connects all of them. The thing is... the target they use are mounted on clamps that themselves have play.
That is why i developed my own tools. Because the dealership machine was not good enough for me.
I believe the pinky needs an alignment... ouch! extensor tendon is severely out of spec
Box cutter 1 Pinky 0 That was from many years ago, I am so used to it now, I don't even notice it
@@FarpointFarms she’s gonna be a loud bang if she lets go 😆
You CANNOT align your wheels with these plates!!! These are to make Toe adjustment, but not to align your wheels. To align your wheels you STILL NEED TO CREATE A BOX AROUND THE VEHICLE!
Wrong. The digital part of the plates give you the ability to adjust camber and caster as well.
@@FarpointFarmsI just watched you align the front wheel using the other front wheel as a point of reference. The front wheels are not aligned to the car itself, you still need an alignment lol.
The plates tell you the difference between them. but it does not show if one is in more than the other because they are only relative to eachother. Or was there a step missed?
@@FarpointFarmsWrong. Like I said you cannot align your wheels with these unless you have a very precise reference point from the vehicle itself.
i agree... these plates are only suitable to show if you have a toe in toe out or zero toe.and also for camber... but it doesnt tell you which wheels are toed in more than the other... the string with car in a box is still by far the most accurate to align the wheels