I second that. I only found this podcast recently due to the YT algorithm. The level of discourse is so insightful. I love these general gaming discussions you gents have been doing recently, the localization one was terrific. To say nothing of the Bioshock critique which was fantastic. As a 37, soon to be 38 year old married male, it's a joy to have found my people. I have extended family members who play games but it's all the new hotness on Xbox, while I'm roaming the Nevada desert in Fallout NV or replaying Majora's Mask or researching which is the best PS1 emulator to play Symphony of the Night.
Unfortunately it's rarely known. You'd Have to make more videos that appeal to the majority of audience. For me I found this channel when they chatted about a current indie game that came out which is weird how much its takes for the RUclips algorithm to share that.
My dad is in his 60's, and has a terminal liver disease. I was born in the early 80's, and grew up during the 8 and 16 bit eras. My dad and I gamed together all the way up through high school, it was one of the ways we bonded. Some of the biggest laughs and fondest memories I have are of that. He now is very ill, and we live in different states. So he and I still make time to game together, in voice chat, having a blast just like we always have. We're playing through the Elden Ring dlc now. To me, there is no such thing as "too old," but "too late" is very real.
I’m 37 as well and, to put it in video game terms, I don’t feel like the main character anymore. I have 2 kids (2 and 4) and most things in my life revolve around my wife and kids now. I feel like I’ve had my time in the spotlight, and it’s their now and I’m just a party member.
I’m a bit older than and when I meet a fellow older gamer it’s a rare and pleasant surprise to reminisce or talk about the games we play, right now. Sadly, it’s still looked down upon by some middle aged people, so I’m always hesitant to bring it up. As for my kids, it’s been a joy seeing them get amazed and experience games for the first time. Recently we played Astrobot and even my youngest (3) could goof around in the game and enjoy it like a sand box. I get what you mean about being the side character, but In the evenings, early mornings and at night - I am the main character! I’ve recently been playing metaphor and have been loving it. It’s really high quality.
Food4dogs is a wonderful youtube channel talking about her love of JRPGs. I love her because she's like living proof that no matter what, you can never be too old for video games.
Just adding to the love because it's contagious, you guys are the best of the best. Thanks for everything you do. Been here since the earliest Dark Pixel podcasts. This little corner of the internet is a true home I feel like I can always come back to no matter what is going on in my life.
Im 43. Been married 20 years, with 3 adult children. Been gaming my whole life... My father is 75. He plays Final Fantasy 14 hard core....had Coleco Vision, Atari Nintendo ect growing up.
Video games are a legitimate art form, and yet the fact that people still think you can be “too old” to enjoy them suggests there’s still a lot of work to be done to get that opinion recognized. Nobody would dare to argue you can be too old for movies, music, or books, but they’ll make the argument for video games. It’s sad
It's because people don't think of JRPGs when they think of gaming. They think of the mainstream normy stuff like fortnite. Same for anime. They think of fan service or kid shows like Naruto and not something like GITS or Monster
That talk about fighting the demons internally and finding that happiness is internal is really helpful. I've been struggling with my depression and kinda lost motivation to live for 5 years.
The new guy at work asked if I play video games, and I said yes. He said he plays a bit of everything, and if there’s a game out there he’s probably tried it, then asked what I’ve been playing. I was foolish enough to give an honest answer and said xenosaga ep 1. He had a blank expression and said he never heard of it, and asked what it’s about. I said it’s a Jung inspired space odyssey that uses gundam wing style sci-fi elements to explore the idea of the collective unconscious. He said he had no idea what those words meant. I asked what he was playing. He said fortnight. I said cool. It was quiet after that. That’s why my usual go to answer to do you play video games is “sometimes but not really”
I’m so proud of my gaming experiences. They were formative. I had a discussion with a student partway through the semester that asked what kinds of games I play. I answered a lot of final fantasy, soulsborne, and mostly story-based games. I also said that if I was more computer savvy I’d play fear and hunger. It was cool that several students I’ve had are more than a little aware of these games. I nerded out explaining some of the genius of how they’re designed and the student definitely thought it was cool to talk about. Never be shy about what you like! If people aren’t shy about liking Fortnite, there’s no reason to be shy about liking xenosaga. No one would be shy to say they like reading Jung, Nietzsche or any variety of philosophy, and these games make all that stuff accessible.
@@Postumeartist I’m with you on that. I’m in the trades and guys who play jrpgs have been rare but not nonexistent. It awesome to find one, but then you gotta hope they can stick with it, both the trades and jrpgs.
Me to! Residential hvac. When I’m on an install, we blast game music and sometimes even this podcast. I’m close to 40 now, but I’ve been kind of lucky with the techs we’ve got. We’re definitely an atypical crew though. In the whole company I’d say 3 out of 8 of us are or were hardcore sci fi/fantasy gamers, 2 are what I’d describe as more casual, one of the older guys was into silent hill and can definitely relate. And one is a cinema buff and his brother is into all the old ffs etc. One hire actually happened to be pretty into all the games I was. It’s a pretty fun crew, which is in my experience exceptionally rare. We’re not old crotchety hvac guys… yet.
Just want to say I really appreciate Mike being willing to talk about about his mental health history in the way he does. So many of us have been through that experience too, and a lot of us are currently going through that experience. It's refreshing to see someone talking about it openly and casually without having it define their entire personality. I think it helps reduce the stigma and shame we hold just a little bit. I found you guys during your Final Fantasy VIII series and I really appreciated Mike stressing that Squall is a great character when it comes to depicting a teenager struggling to deal with their abandonment & traumatic history. Instantly knew this guy's been through it to some extent. Not to diminish Casen, I love his input on things too, but what you said in this episode just made me want to emerge from my lurker status and share. Thank you both for doing what you do!!
I've had plenty of moments like this personally. In my 30s, chattering about Tactics Ogre as a hobby gig....but ultimately normalized it to the folks that know me. I'm in marketing, I write guides, and I do electronics repair. I make content for ads. I fix handhelds. It means the same thing, but in their language. It's why I've had a list I make a couple times a year of "Dad Devices". Gaming things that you can comfortably have around in that dad role....stealthily. Devices that tell others "you don't know what this is, and that's ok." What're you playing? No one knows what Tactics Ogre is. I'm playing depressing chess. "Wait, what?" An old strategy game from back in the day. Real bummer of a story, but I love a good tragedy! "Huh. I like ___ myself." Despite the clear confusion, this has gotten many folks I never would have figured for gamers to strike up conversations about them, typically not expecting an energetic response when asked about a game that they think looks dull. We're communal creatures, we like to jump in on excitement. Also, hell nah, I will defend the fun of Crossfire to the death 😂 Also also, now that you mention it...there was a Twilight Zone episode about a guy obsessing over books until the world ended. Great episode.
I played Shadow of the Colossus when it came out. We primarily played it as a group at my friend's house because he had a large TV. The experience of having twenty year olds, kids, teens, and middle-aged parents watching the player take down a colossus was amazing. We all cheered each other, we talked shit to each other when we died, and we bargained for who would take on the next colossus. We all were absolutely floored when we took on the flying colossus. In those moments, nobody cared about medium or proper age or anything. Riding atop a massive stone bird flying in the sky as a group, and the player was one of his parents, cemented in my head that games are experiences for anyone willing to engage in them. Age be damned. I'm 41 now and still play games. I'm not ashamed at all to say so.
I struggle with telling people that I play games too that I often just keep it to myself. When I think of how you guys cover and analyze games it helps me realize that I shouldn't be ashamed and a lot of folks are missing out on fantastic stories. Their loss I suppose. Keep up the fantastic work fellas. You're definitely making a difference.
I'm 41, I've been playing games since I was a 4 years old, and started working in the game industry when I was 30. The best part is meeting kids who are passionate about games. I love sitting them down and teaching them ways they can build a portfolio, meet people in the industry, and find their way into the industry. A lot of these kids don't have parents that know a lot about the industry, or even care to know, and they're dying to find an mentor to direct them. Also, they're absolutely JAZZED to meet an adult that understands their hobby, and is just as passionate about it. I'm actually having dinner guests over on Friday, and our guest's son is so excited to meet me, and talk about video games. I'm looking forward to it as well. :)
Loved this and appreciate the honesty of you both pouring some pretty dark and sad concerns (suicide, concern for kids) out in such a public forum to help illustrate points.
I'm pushing 50 and my answer is "hell to the nah." You can have family, career, multiple graduate degrees and still love great stories told across various media.
as someone who has gone through alot of not good, i can tell you what mike said is 100% true, the battle starts with you and you have to find peace and acceptance inside before you can find happiness outside. you guys channel coninue to amaze
I’ll be 40 in December, married, two kids, house, job and I still play games. I have far less time to play than I used to, but manage to find time late at night for a compelling game (FFVII Rebirth most recently). I try to find games that I can play with my young kids, such as Astrobot, Mario Kart, Mario Party, etc. But still love myself an epic story or morality tale in a more adult oriented game. Never too old to have fun and enjoy good art
These Monday discussions have been a great change. I'd never say no to double the content but hearing your guys thoughts on broader topics has been a treat. I'm only 28 but I feel everything you've mentioned here. I typically don't bring up games at work unless a co-worker hints that they play and I've already been told countless times by the younger crowd on games that I'm too old already. It's a weird mix because I believe it's definitely gotten better since gaming is a much more popular hobby today than it was a decade ago but I think those who only see surface deep into the medium like cod, fortnite, etc. will fail to see there's more to it than just a competitive multiplayer scene. Gaming has also allowed me to meet some incredible people who have been my friend for almost 20 years now and allowed me to stay in touch with those I've moved away from. It's something I'll continue doing until I'm unable to physically anymore.
This is actually the closest you get to modern world philosophers discussing society through their prism, with videogames as a hook mechanism. Generally a niche I can feel for. One of the best videos on this channel.
That’s wild to hear Mike be reserved in what he does since he’s so great at it. As a gamer in my 40s in a corporate job, I feel like I’m on an island at work when it comes to video games too!!
I love the thumbnail 😂 Great episode! I'm 32 years old and have been gaming since I was about 8, I think. Started on PC but quickly pivoted to PS1, and every iteration that followed. Gaming is a huge part of my life and I don't think that will ever change!
In TV, there is a term called the "Key demographic" that varies depending on the advertiser. Usually this demographic is either 18 to 34 years old (and male/female/both depending on the type of programing). Sometimes it can be 18 - 49 or even 18 - 54 for something like mainstream news or documentaries. Advertisers are willing to pay more for programing that attracts a higher rating in "The demo", because their data shows that people in that age group are more likely to buy their products. So they want to target their advertising more to that group compared to those who are younger or older. If Gaming had a key demo, I feel like it would be from about ages 14 - 28. As someone in my late 30's, similar age to Mike and Casen, and I feel like mainstream AAA games are just not targeting my tastes at all anymore. They used to, but now they are going after the demographic 10 - 20 years younger than me who are more likely to purchase new games (and their microtransactions). And that definitely ain't me anymore lol. So I don't feel like I'm too old for gaming in general, but do feel like I'm too old to fall in love with the really, really popular games that many younger people are playing these days (Minecraft, battle Royale shooters, anything remotely "live service", etc.) I will never stop playing games, but the games that I enjoy the most (classic style RPGs and 2D fighting games) will probably never again get back to being as popular with "the demo" as they were in the 90's and early 2000's. (And I'm fine with that.)
There's a mid-80s movie called "The Big Chill", where a group of estranged friends stay together for a few days and catch up on what's going on in their lives. One guy says that he likes playing video games after work as a hobby. He does get a bit roasted for it, but I can't help but feel vindicated that even 40 years ago, there was a demographic of 40yo gamers
I think part of why people stop playing games as they age is that the minimum amount of effort required is higher. Movies, TV, and music only require you to press play then it completes itself. Games require you to actively engage with it on some level for you to see it to the end. I think books also suffer from this which is why audio books have become popular.
I feel the same way about being in my mid 30's and still playing games and trying to enjoy and understand how technology, games, stories, are.... When talking to some folks my age and older, I always get treated oddly and get shunned for being like this... Im just glad that there are mediums like your channel that are good outlets to talk about these things!
This episode in particular, but also the Outer Wild and Spec Ops the Line videos, got me more into what you guys actually do (since I have not played most games you talk about). Everything you talk here just very much matched with my situation in life and my experiences beeing an adult gamer surrounded by mostly non-gamers. It convinced me to join and support you guys.
When I was growing up in Latin America, Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross intrigued me so much they inspired me to learn the English language. There’s no such thing as too old for games-there’s a reason old men playing chess at the park is a stereotype. All types of games are for everyone.
When you shared your personal struggles and the attempt to end your life, I was deeply moved and saddened. I wish you could have felt a comforting hug. I think it's important for games to address these issues more openly. I believe many people can relate to and benefit from such conversations. You guys are awesome !
Don't think I'll ever get "too old" for games (I am 33), this has been a consistent core hobby for me since I was very little. Life gets busy, and you do need to get a lot more picky about what you're playing -- time investment just has to feel worth it, so I have lost a lot of my patience for grindy timesink games where progression feels like doing chores, at the same time I still look for games that have enough content for me to play over several months, or with a story or setting that makes me interested in seeing everything the game world has to offer. So while I'm certainly playing fewer games, and I'm a lot less enthusiastic about new releases, I'm also appreciating what I do end up playing that much more. Besides that, socially, gaming is fairly normalized among my peers -- I sometimes even chat about it at work with my boss. And for what it's worth, my 70 year old step-father has been playing Civilization 5 for the past 10 years, and when he married my mother, it was his PSOne collection that became mine. That's how I played Tactics Ogre for the first time! I don't think one can truly become "too old for video games" anymore than one can become too old for games in general (is there such a thing as "too old for checkers" or "too old for bingo"?), or to become too old for movies. But you do become more discerning in your tastes, and more economical with your time --- so things that used to matter to you, and matter to "the kids these days," start seeming a lot more petty... they do become petty compared to all the responsibilities of adulthood. Most games aren't worth playing, most movies aren't worth watching, most books aren't worth reading -- maturity crystallizes your personal criteria of quality and makes the curation of that content which is worth it much easier, I find. And you know, having kids sometimes gives you an excuse to play goofy games as an adult you might not have ever played as a teenager or younger man, rather than depriving you of the time for gaming! tl;dr video games are a legitimate hobby at any age - in my adult experience I actually have never been in a situation where it was treated as aberrant or unusual, not even in professional settings, I can't even count how many gaming conversations I've had with lawyers lol
I don’t necessarily feel too old for games, but I do often feel too old for most modern games. There might be a new game every few months that I get genuinely excited for, whereas when I was younger it felt like there were dozens of games that I wanted to play at any given time. I think the fact that I still play and enjoy tons of retro games is evidence of that. Most new games are being made for the younger/larger audience, and their likes and sensibilities are different than those of the previous generation.
Thank you Mike and Casen for making this channel and for being honest and genuine with your thoughts and feelings, regardless of the topic. It's truly a gift.
very much appreciate you being so candid and open towards the end of this episode Mike. I also struggle looking externally for that "answer", for that one thing that will allow me to begin the rest of my life, but the answer is within us somewhere, if there even is an answer at all.. anyway keep up the great work guys, this was a fantastic discussion
I gotta say, as someone who recently hit the big 3-0 and at that same time was grinding the Trails series, it was weird how I instinctively tried to focus on and gravitate towards the few key characters (both heroes and villains) in their late 20's and 30's. Naturally, its just a game but it sucks not being able to put myself in the shoes of the main heroes anymore
Same age here, almost 40, with 2 kids. I feel like I don’t play just because the older you get the less free time you have. In that sense I feel one can have a certain age where gaming is just not a priority, but definitely the phrase “too old” kind of doesn’t match, because when I am really old, and the kids have families of their own, I will definitely pick gaming back.
Am I too old to be gaming? Maybe. Is that going to stop me? Absolutely not! Great podcast like always. For what it's worth, I'm really enjoying this new podcast schedule.
Man, you guys POPPED OFF on this one. Also at the end there, Mike- I totalllllyy resonated with what you were grasping at with Jung. As an atheist, my initial inclination was skepticism since Jung’s model is not strictly empirical. That is until putting his method into practice. Fucking Atomic in terms of life change and the journey to self-mastery. Like you guys, Jung (and philosophy/psychology broadly) came from an interest in video games. It’s an incredible medium that can hide profound, life-changing things in a deceitfully “low art” veneer. Trying to blow off some steam? BOOM, Nietszche! Just another few minutes before bed? Wapow, individuation! Keep this up, you two!
What you said about not feeling as upset about the Nintendo directs and such is something I've also felt for awhile but I don't think it's like "oh I'm dead and no one cares about me", I think it's cause a lot of those people who are real mad about it are real young people who don't have the same responsibilities and things that they have to prioritize that we do (I'm also 37). So you know, I think we changed as we got older, and that's fine. Also screw that Neuralink stuff, I'm not putting that charlatan shit in my brain.
The old generation was so hypocritical, they would spend hrs in front of the tv watching war dramas and soap ops, but yet "claimed" that video games destroyed our minds. Man, I will tell you right now. I learned so much in my adolescent childhood playing video games. It was as much of an entertainment hobby as it was furthering my educational cognitive development; hand eye coordination, reflexes, real world problem solving, English, literary analysis, creative writing, reading. The many introspections we gained that relate to life experiences, presented through this wonderful medium. Now look at us. We took the world by storm and now it’s ingrained deeply into our society and used for business and even schools are using it now to teach kids. So these parents of the 1980's-1990's were just simply put, wrong!! How ever I do think some of the modern recent trends are unhealthy such as the gacha systems or having kids play games on their phones and tablets all day long.
I mean I distinctly remember those same people being critical of over indulging in TV, too. Too much stimulation from passive entertainment is a problem. Attention spans are demonstrably smaller. There's a reason Casen isn't giving his kids complete freedom with electronics
@@themeangene True, you have to seek moderation with anything you do. But the idea, and I guess the "mentality" behind games just rotting our brains, was just incorrect. As I said, I learned ALOT in basic academics. I learned cartography and many other skills. Video games also shaped the way I would approach certain things in life, phycologically and physiolocially. Certainly there are types of games that can have bad influences, but I was mainly into RPG games, platformers, and adventure titles, so I didn't really experience that, except for maybe Grand Theft Auto, but that was a controversial game for everyone for obvious reasons. Video games in general, though, as an artistic medium are not bad, like the way our folks tried to instill in our minds. There is so much you can take from the culture and the life lessons, and they can even be used as educational tools. For example, I remember playing Jurasic Park SNES. I had to draw and cartegraph my own maps to navigate the game; I had to solve very difficult and complex puzzles in order to progress, and I was rewarded for my efforts. Teachers and the parents of those years just didn't grasp how video games were more than just a passive entertainment hobby.
At the risk of confirming my confirmation bias. I feel like we are on the same wavelength. As a 30 something, you all feel like the older brothers I never had
I am so grateful you guys are doing these extra episodes a week. They are so insightful and resonate (pardon the pun) with me on such a deep level. Mike, thank you for being so open and honest about your struggles with depression. I am 34 and video games have long been a companion to depression and help me find meaning and joy in life. Thanks as always for everything you guys do. All love!
Been watching since 2017-2018. If anything this channel has helped me deal with that feeling. Gaming has taught me so much and this channel has absolutely enriched that experience for me. I'll be 80 years old gaming with my kids 😂
Casen, you’re not fully accurate about Galileo at 1:06:05 -they didn’t condemn Galileo for being divergent, they condemned him for publishing a hypothesis as though it were fact without being able to prove it. Galileo also wrote a book with his patron the pope as a fool. Pride was Galileo’s downfall, not innovation.
This is great. I imagine like many others who watch this channel, we see some version of the best moments with our friends in you guys. Thanks for the humorous tone with drops of seriousness mixed in. Great stuff.
I’m starting to listen to this today via Spotify and couldn’t help but mention - it was because of gaming that I met my wife. She runs a WOW guild and I didn’t even play wow haha. But without the community of people who engage, I wouldn’t be where I am today!
Man, I'm of similar age to both of you. I've been playing video games since preschool and I've played a veritable plethora of genres. I'm with Casen here in that I can still see myself realistically playing games until I'm old. However, I play less games these days because games are inherently targeted at children, teens, and young adults. Not many games out there that feature protagonists in their late 30's or games that focus around issues that someone in their early 40's would go through. Either way, always nice to listen to your guys' podcasts.
I forgot what the story with the intro is, but the outro is an original composition by Yasunori Mitsuda himself! Mitsuda wrote it for a friend of the show, who in turn gave it to Mike to use for the podcast (not sure who orchestrated it though, or if there's even a full version online). They might respond here, we'll see.
The video game culture needs more conversations like this to elevate it in people’s minds. To answer the question for myself: I’m in my 40s, and if I didn’t enjoy games I’d have one less thing to participate in with my kids. Beyond that, games have developed a cinematic quality that lets me experience the story at least as well as a movie or Netflix binge-watch, but I get to actively participate in the challenge of the game in order to see how the story ends.
I categorize games in two ways and I think you guys pretty much hit the nail on the head with my feelings. It's true with any art form, there's this parallel with the medium where some of it is just made to kind of waste your time. It's the doomscrolling effect. Sometimes you just want to sit on a couch and zone-out and watch TV. You want to just go on auto-pilot and play a couple matches of a game or watch the whatever made-for-TV movie that the cable channel is playing at the time. I think those are valid games but the second category is what we're all here for. I think a lot of multiplayer games fall into the first category. Some amazing works of art in their own right but a lot of it's done to just pass the time. The second category of games for me is almost exclusively single player games. I like reaching the end of something and I think that's important to recognize. Finishing Outer Wilds felt like finishing a good book, you know? You get to the end of this crazy game and you can sit with it and you can think about it and you don't need to keep trying to get every dollar out of it. You're done. I think that second category of video game is honestly peak art and it's a shame that it gets lumped in with the first category so easily
Well, yeah man, but admittedly…of all the games you played. How many are in that category? How many in comparison with other media? Even in RPGs and JRPG’s this kind of game is rare… The argument that other media has more instances of better narratives seems to me to hold water…same in the anime category…almost completely juvenile junk food…
@@AdalbertoMaggioJunior Honestly, I'd say most of the games I play these days are those games. Take it, I probably playthrough about 10 games a year if that - but this year, Crow Country, Pseudoregalia, Chants of Senaar, Gravity Circuit, Elden Ring DLC, and Animal Well did it for me for sure. Though I played a few that didn't stick the landing as much too. Hilariously I spend more time looking for games than I do playing them but I think something that I find important is to listen to the right people and go outside of your comfort zone when it feels right. You mention JRPGs and RPGs and honestly, I think that genre can be amazing - that's why I'm on this channel lol. But none of my favorite games of the last decade really fall under that category. The main thing I look at and follow is new game design. Passion projects of people who want to make a game not to be rich but because they want that game to exist. I find when you find those games and try to take it for what it is - instead of what you are expecting of a genre or what you expect yourself to like, it can be a lot better of an experience. Razbuten, Jacob Geller, Snowman Gaming, GMTK. Those are all channels I suggest for finding some amazing games
@@Hot__d_o_g yes, spending more time looking for good games than playing is a thing and I am also subscribed to some of the channels you mention… Point was however, that there being a lesser percentage of these excellent works than in other media seems to anecdotally be true…
@@AdalbertoMaggioJunior Ya, super fair. I think that will all come with time as indie games come and come. This media has just reached a point in the last decade where it's actually possible for people to make passion projects. There's no doubt there are some amazing games that go under all of our radars. I think someone like Daniel Mullins is a huge inspiration for me personally - he just keeps making games and does his thing and does it well and has been doing it for years. After playing Inscryption, I love that I can go back through his catalogue and see a game like Pony Island, which holds up, and it was just sitting there for years unbeknownst to me. Games are getting easier and easier to make which is super cool and I think the landscape of games in the next ten or twenty years will look very similar to that of movies. Young people coming into games at that time will have a GIGANTIC well of games to choose from and new ones will keep coming.
@@Hot__d_o_g you get it. The industry and journalists have to give reality it’s dues when talking about the media. The point that compared to other media there are fewer works suitable for thirty year olds and onwards on games and anime is a thing…that critics and journalists choose to consistently ignore and then proceed to talk about how it’s art etc etc…
Minor spoiler for FF XIV Mike, but a character all but says the quote "Look your enemy in the eye and see compassion." as well there. It was a good moment there too.
I do kind of get the "too old for video games" argument, but for me it's more of a question of physical and mental dexterity. If video games are art, then it's an interactive art. So it asks certain requirements from its viewer/participant. I can absolutely see how people can, over time, become unfit to capably play games like Counter Strike, Escape from Tarkov, Sekiro etc because of slower reflexes. Also, the average playthrough of video games (18 hours according to HLtB) is more than the average novel, movie or music suite, so at some point it would be mentally taxing to keep all the information in your head. Dementia runs in my family, so I'm dreading the day when I won't be able to remember the story of games like RDR2 or Kiseki by the time I finish them. I get that this is a different problem than the original topic. Wishing everyone good health and many years of video game enjoyment!
Yeah, that's something I can agree with. Heck, even when younger, I couldn't play some games because they make me sick. Literally. Like some people get car sick and such. Hasn't stopped me from enjoying other types of games, though. Early onset dementia runs in my family. I'm definitely going to enjoy whatever games I want, for as long as I can.
I’m 43 and I still play video games (mainly RPGs) like I did when I was a teenager while also balancing family life and work. You have to be really creative when finding the time to do it but I somehow make it work!
Im the same age as you guys, and I make video games. I also play them like crazy. I also have 3 kids that play video games. Whenever someone asks me what I do im proud to say I make video games, if they dont think thats cool then thats fine. I know its my dream job, I know my kids love it and have learned a lot from it. Age does not matter, the medium does not drive the audience the content does, just like with anything else. (although the medium is pretty sweet)
I rarely watch tv and movies, so video games are where I get most of my entertainment from. I'm never going to stop playing them. The stories, as you guys have analyzed in great detail on your channel rival and are sometimes even better than most tv shows and movies. On another note, that thumbnail is something else. xD "Old" Mike and Casen. lol
Just turned 40 this month. I get less and less time to play and my expectations of quality have increased drastically over the years. I have been playing more indie retro rpgs of late. I’m currently playing CrossCode for the first time. I’m thoroughly loving it. Highly recommend for anyone who hasn’t played it yet.
Never too old for anything! Specially to enjoy video games. Actually, I’m on my early 30s and I enjoy and appreciate gaming stories now more than ever! Love your podcasts! I don’t comment much but I joined your Patreon for a couple of years during Covid and definitely watch all of your videos. Watched FFX, FF8 and Nier Automata analysis a couple of times already! 😅 I hope the majority of the community supports this channel cause u guys can’t go anywhere. The gaming industry need you! Thanks and keep up the great work.
Thank you for this awesome episode! Loved it. I've been really feeling like this as well: too old for video games due to too many responsabilites (work, wife, daughter, house...), and somehow I played through a bunch of RPGs this last year (sea of stars, star ocean 2, chained echoes, bug fables, so on). I just can't not play games hahaha Also, shout out to the discord server. I remember fondly 2017-2018. European here who actually met with others in London! Always cherishing you guys and your continued work. Keep going! -JCrossJ
I'm approaching 45 years of age and been gaming since the Atari days. I have a wife and 2 kids. Work a full time job. Yet when I can, I still enjoy gaming almost as much as I did with a kid. I'm still blown away at the imagination and magic of games and likely will until I'm old and incapable of playing anymore. Nothing wrong with enjoying this hobby as long as you're not neglecting your other responsibilities. I'm glad this channel exists as we really aren't the target demographic of gamers anymore yet we have so much knowledge and experience with games but not many spaces to converse with others about it.
Speaking of phased out of the demographic, I played Scarlet Nexus and realized that “this was not made for me”. I felt that way for Tales of Arise too, I felt that it was made for teens to 20s and felt so out of touch.
My parents in their 60s still plays mario kart on the switch, and started back in 92 with mario kart on the SNES. I know my mom said that they started with game&watch before the NES in the mid 80s. My grandparents died of Covid in their 90s so not around but I do remember my grandpa playing Uncharted 2 in his late 70s - last time I saw him play. My parents btw had jobs, own houses (home in the city and a summer house) and owned many animals and had kids- yes you have "TIME" to play games. Anyone claiming they dont have time for games in their 30s or 40s is just choosing x,y or z before "games". You think people dont have time to watch movies, watch sports either?!
It's funny the age gap allowance. I'm 60+, have been gaming nearly non-stop since the late 70s, and ppl find out I'm an avid gamer I get fascination from them.
Entertainment is the new religion honestly. Its how you make friends and meet people. Its how you learn values and life lessons. Liking or hating media is how people preemptively judge you and come to hate you.
I love these talks. Great that we get this along side the game focussed ones as I prefer to play the games you cover and I don’t have loads of time. 👍🏿
I'm about to turn 36, The thought never entered my mind, I've been playing video games for as long as I can remember ( Since the NES) and I haven't slowed down since. Will for sure be gaming into my late eighties if possible :D
I'm 43 turn early next year 44. I learned early in my life that people are products of their close environment. I'm working at the front desk of an car dealership doing all kinds of stuff and I work with people who are so much into cars and tuning and stuff as I'm into video-games and pen and paper RPG. Your early life leaves an immense imprint on you. Either your closes friends or family will spark your first hobby. Some people who don't have much friends will take their parents as a role-model. I see that there every day at work. It's a family business and both kids of my female junior boss and her husband (who's our head of storage) are so into his work and his interests that's like I was into video-games. I play more then 3 times a week video-games. A lot less since I got a new engaged but still I need that as much I need to spend time with my soon to be wife.
I never comment because I hate wasting words when I don't have anything legitimately noteworthy to say. However, I'll do it here just to boost your algorithm. Great work guys. Keep it up and don't lose the drive this meaningful art to others.
It brought me so much joy when you guys brought up Crossfire! I still think about that commercial today lol and it was an absolute must have for Christmas one year. I've even showed my kids that old commercial! Haha
Hi guys god bless you both.im 48 grew up in Atari /nes era..I feel the exact way myself.every year that passes I think this the year I'll stop being interested in gaming.it never does I'm in the island Trinidad close to Venezuela in the caribbean.you guys keep up the wonderful work your both doing..
This was refreshing. I agree so much with all of this specially the AI pieces. I really appreciate that both of you approach these topics with such broad interests and perspectives that aren’t just gaming centric. Edit to add: Gaming is my 30s hobby. As a kid it was reading, as a teenager and into 20s it was anime. Since it’s newer to me it doesn’t feel old at all. In some ways I feel too old now for anime or YA books. It’s also harder to find any new books or anime I truly like anymore. It makes me glad to still have great games to explore until I get burned out of them too.
God bless you guys. I'm so thankful for this podcast. The discussions you guys have on this podcast brings so much value to my life. Just like how Xenogears, Outer Wilds and Nier Automata have changed your perspective on life, this podcast has certainly done that for me. Thank you both so much from the bottom of my heart.
This channel deserves a lot more attention from the gaming community.
1 trillion %
I second that. I only found this podcast recently due to the YT algorithm. The level of discourse is so insightful. I love these general gaming discussions you gents have been doing recently, the localization one was terrific. To say nothing of the Bioshock critique which was fantastic.
As a 37, soon to be 38 year old married male, it's a joy to have found my people. I have extended family members who play games but it's all the new hotness on Xbox, while I'm roaming the Nevada desert in Fallout NV or replaying Majora's Mask or researching which is the best PS1 emulator to play Symphony of the Night.
Unfortunately it's rarely known. You'd Have to make more videos that appeal to the majority of audience. For me I found this channel when they chatted about a current indie game that came out which is weird how much its takes for the RUclips algorithm to share that.
I agree. More people treating games as art and worthy of analysis is a good thing
@NowhereMan789 i 100%... personally, games like Xenoblade and Shadow of Colossus have made me a more thoughtful & better person.
My dad is in his 60's, and has a terminal liver disease. I was born in the early 80's, and grew up during the 8 and 16 bit eras. My dad and I gamed together all the way up through high school, it was one of the ways we bonded. Some of the biggest laughs and fondest memories I have are of that. He now is very ill, and we live in different states. So he and I still make time to game together, in voice chat, having a blast just like we always have. We're playing through the Elden Ring dlc now. To me, there is no such thing as "too old," but "too late" is very real.
I’m 37 as well and, to put it in video game terms, I don’t feel like the main character anymore. I have 2 kids (2 and 4) and most things in my life revolve around my wife and kids now. I feel like I’ve had my time in the spotlight, and it’s their now and I’m just a party member.
This reminds me of some of the best parenting advice I ever heard: Be a killer side character!
@@ffrock1901like Auron in FFX.
Lead through the tutorial area, then let them be the main character while supporting them from the side.
I'm the same, and I'm ok with that
You've become Cid. That's an epic charter arc.
I’m a bit older than and when I meet a fellow older gamer it’s a rare and pleasant surprise to reminisce or talk about the games we play, right now. Sadly, it’s still looked down upon by some middle aged people, so I’m always hesitant to bring it up.
As for my kids, it’s been a joy seeing them get amazed and experience games for the first time. Recently we played Astrobot and even my youngest (3) could goof around in the game and enjoy it like a sand box.
I get what you mean about being the side character, but In the evenings, early mornings and at night - I am the main character!
I’ve recently been playing metaphor and have been loving it. It’s really high quality.
Food4dogs is a wonderful youtube channel talking about her love of JRPGs.
I love her because she's like living proof that no matter what, you can never be too old for video games.
Her channel also came to mind when I watched this episode! She's lovely.
Britta is amazing! I really love her videos and the way she talks about games!
You guys doing these extra episodes consistently is exactly what this channel needed. Loving it and please keep it up!
If only the content was appealing.
Just adding to the love because it's contagious, you guys are the best of the best. Thanks for everything you do. Been here since the earliest Dark Pixel podcasts. This little corner of the internet is a true home I feel like I can always come back to no matter what is going on in my life.
Im 43. Been married 20 years, with 3 adult children. Been gaming my whole life... My father is 75. He plays Final Fantasy 14 hard core....had Coleco Vision, Atari Nintendo ect growing up.
Video games are a legitimate art form, and yet the fact that people still think you can be “too old” to enjoy them suggests there’s still a lot of work to be done to get that opinion recognized. Nobody would dare to argue you can be too old for movies, music, or books, but they’ll make the argument for video games. It’s sad
I mean people definitely argue you're too old for animation whether it's anime or Western. But I get your point.
@@themeangene They shouldn’t do that either
A video game is just another medium to tell a story.
It's because people don't think of JRPGs when they think of gaming. They think of the mainstream normy stuff like fortnite. Same for anime. They think of fan service or kid shows like Naruto and not something like GITS or Monster
That talk about fighting the demons internally and finding that happiness is internal is really helpful. I've been struggling with my depression and kinda lost motivation to live for 5 years.
The new guy at work asked if I play video games, and I said yes. He said he plays a bit of everything, and if there’s a game out there he’s probably tried it, then asked what I’ve been playing. I was foolish enough to give an honest answer and said xenosaga ep 1. He had a blank expression and said he never heard of it, and asked what it’s about. I said it’s a Jung inspired space odyssey that uses gundam wing style sci-fi elements to explore the idea of the collective unconscious. He said he had no idea what those words meant. I asked what he was playing. He said fortnight. I said cool. It was quiet after that.
That’s why my usual go to answer to do you play video games is “sometimes but not really”
I’m so proud of my gaming experiences. They were formative. I had a discussion with a student partway through the semester that asked what kinds of games I play. I answered a lot of final fantasy, soulsborne, and mostly story-based games. I also said that if I was more computer savvy I’d play fear and hunger. It was cool that several students I’ve had are more than a little aware of these games. I nerded out explaining some of the genius of how they’re designed and the student definitely thought it was cool to talk about. Never be shy about what you like! If people aren’t shy about liking Fortnite, there’s no reason to be shy about liking xenosaga. No one would be shy to say they like reading Jung, Nietzsche or any variety of philosophy, and these games make all that stuff accessible.
@@Postumeartist I’m with you on that. I’m in the trades and guys who play jrpgs have been rare but not nonexistent. It awesome to find one, but then you gotta hope they can stick with it, both the trades and jrpgs.
Me to! Residential hvac. When I’m on an install, we blast game music and sometimes even this podcast. I’m close to 40 now, but I’ve been kind of lucky with the techs we’ve got. We’re definitely an atypical crew though. In the whole company I’d say 3 out of 8 of us are or were hardcore sci fi/fantasy gamers, 2 are what I’d describe as more casual, one of the older guys was into silent hill and can definitely relate. And one is a cinema buff and his brother is into all the old ffs etc. One hire actually happened to be pretty into all the games I was. It’s a pretty fun crew, which is in my experience exceptionally rare. We’re not old crotchety hvac guys… yet.
This made me laugh
Fucking zoomers.
Just want to say I really appreciate Mike being willing to talk about about his mental health history in the way he does. So many of us have been through that experience too, and a lot of us are currently going through that experience. It's refreshing to see someone talking about it openly and casually without having it define their entire personality. I think it helps reduce the stigma and shame we hold just a little bit.
I found you guys during your Final Fantasy VIII series and I really appreciated Mike stressing that Squall is a great character when it comes to depicting a teenager struggling to deal with their abandonment & traumatic history. Instantly knew this guy's been through it to some extent. Not to diminish Casen, I love his input on things too, but what you said in this episode just made me want to emerge from my lurker status and share.
Thank you both for doing what you do!!
Haha, loved the "older Mike and Casen" thumbnails. For a second I thought the podcast had new guests.
For a second I thought the Gladiator 2 reconsidered it's casting choices. That perm is Roman Emperor material. 😂
I've had plenty of moments like this personally. In my 30s, chattering about Tactics Ogre as a hobby gig....but ultimately normalized it to the folks that know me. I'm in marketing, I write guides, and I do electronics repair. I make content for ads. I fix handhelds. It means the same thing, but in their language.
It's why I've had a list I make a couple times a year of "Dad Devices". Gaming things that you can comfortably have around in that dad role....stealthily. Devices that tell others "you don't know what this is, and that's ok."
What're you playing? No one knows what Tactics Ogre is. I'm playing depressing chess. "Wait, what?" An old strategy game from back in the day. Real bummer of a story, but I love a good tragedy! "Huh. I like ___ myself."
Despite the clear confusion, this has gotten many folks I never would have figured for gamers to strike up conversations about them, typically not expecting an energetic response when asked about a game that they think looks dull.
We're communal creatures, we like to jump in on excitement.
Also, hell nah, I will defend the fun of Crossfire to the death 😂
Also also, now that you mention it...there was a Twilight Zone episode about a guy obsessing over books until the world ended. Great episode.
I played Shadow of the Colossus when it came out. We primarily played it as a group at my friend's house because he had a large TV. The experience of having twenty year olds, kids, teens, and middle-aged parents watching the player take down a colossus was amazing. We all cheered each other, we talked shit to each other when we died, and we bargained for who would take on the next colossus. We all were absolutely floored when we took on the flying colossus. In those moments, nobody cared about medium or proper age or anything. Riding atop a massive stone bird flying in the sky as a group, and the player was one of his parents, cemented in my head that games are experiences for anyone willing to engage in them. Age be damned. I'm 41 now and still play games. I'm not ashamed at all to say so.
But-B-but it was less than 30fps, no anti aliasing, LITERAL UNPLAYABLE TRASH 👍😭👌🤣
I can’t explain how much I appreciate these two! They are so solid with their takes!
I struggle with telling people that I play games too that I often just keep it to myself. When I think of how you guys cover and analyze games it helps me realize that I shouldn't be ashamed and a lot of folks are missing out on fantastic stories. Their loss I suppose.
Keep up the fantastic work fellas. You're definitely making a difference.
I'm 41, I've been playing games since I was a 4 years old, and started working in the game industry when I was 30. The best part is meeting kids who are passionate about games. I love sitting them down and teaching them ways they can build a portfolio, meet people in the industry, and find their way into the industry. A lot of these kids don't have parents that know a lot about the industry, or even care to know, and they're dying to find an mentor to direct them.
Also, they're absolutely JAZZED to meet an adult that understands their hobby, and is just as passionate about it. I'm actually having dinner guests over on Friday, and our guest's son is so excited to meet me, and talk about video games. I'm looking forward to it as well. :)
thats very cool
Loved this and appreciate the honesty of you both pouring some pretty dark and sad concerns (suicide, concern for kids) out in such a public forum to help illustrate points.
You know it's two great friends conversing when the topic of conversation goes WAAAY off course. Love these talk-shop eps.
I'm pushing 50 and my answer is "hell to the nah." You can have family, career, multiple graduate degrees and still love great stories told across various media.
as someone who has gone through alot of not good, i can tell you what mike said is 100% true, the battle starts with you and you have to find peace and acceptance inside before you can find happiness outside. you guys channel coninue to amaze
I maintain that good video games are like a 80 hour good movie or good book
I’ll be 40 in December, married, two kids, house, job and I still play games. I have far less time to play than I used to, but manage to find time late at night for a compelling game (FFVII Rebirth most recently). I try to find games that I can play with my young kids, such as Astrobot, Mario Kart, Mario Party, etc. But still love myself an epic story or morality tale in a more adult oriented game. Never too old to have fun and enjoy good art
These Monday discussions have been a great change. I'd never say no to double the content but hearing your guys thoughts on broader topics has been a treat. I'm only 28 but I feel everything you've mentioned here. I typically don't bring up games at work unless a co-worker hints that they play and I've already been told countless times by the younger crowd on games that I'm too old already. It's a weird mix because I believe it's definitely gotten better since gaming is a much more popular hobby today than it was a decade ago but I think those who only see surface deep into the medium like cod, fortnite, etc. will fail to see there's more to it than just a competitive multiplayer scene. Gaming has also allowed me to meet some incredible people who have been my friend for almost 20 years now and allowed me to stay in touch with those I've moved away from. It's something I'll continue doing until I'm unable to physically anymore.
This is actually the closest you get to modern world philosophers discussing society through their prism, with videogames as a hook mechanism. Generally a niche I can feel for. One of the best videos on this channel.
That’s wild to hear Mike be reserved in what he does since he’s so great at it. As a gamer in my 40s in a corporate job, I feel like I’m on an island at work when it comes to video games too!!
I love the thumbnail 😂 Great episode!
I'm 32 years old and have been gaming since I was about 8, I think. Started on PC but quickly pivoted to PS1, and every iteration that followed. Gaming is a huge part of my life and I don't think that will ever change!
In TV, there is a term called the "Key demographic" that varies depending on the advertiser. Usually this demographic is either 18 to 34 years old (and male/female/both depending on the type of programing). Sometimes it can be 18 - 49 or even 18 - 54 for something like mainstream news or documentaries.
Advertisers are willing to pay more for programing that attracts a higher rating in "The demo", because their data shows that people in that age group are more likely to buy their products. So they want to target their advertising more to that group compared to those who are younger or older.
If Gaming had a key demo, I feel like it would be from about ages 14 - 28. As someone in my late 30's, similar age to Mike and Casen, and I feel like mainstream AAA games are just not targeting my tastes at all anymore. They used to, but now they are going after the demographic 10 - 20 years younger than me who are more likely to purchase new games (and their microtransactions). And that definitely ain't me anymore lol.
So I don't feel like I'm too old for gaming in general, but do feel like I'm too old to fall in love with the really, really popular games that many younger people are playing these days (Minecraft, battle Royale shooters, anything remotely "live service", etc.)
I will never stop playing games, but the games that I enjoy the most (classic style RPGs and 2D fighting games) will probably never again get back to being as popular with "the demo" as they were in the 90's and early 2000's. (And I'm fine with that.)
I'm so glad I've been fairly and consistently watching your videos since 2017.
There's a mid-80s movie called "The Big Chill", where a group of estranged friends stay together for a few days and catch up on what's going on in their lives. One guy says that he likes playing video games after work as a hobby. He does get a bit roasted for it, but I can't help but feel vindicated that even 40 years ago, there was a demographic of 40yo gamers
I think part of why people stop playing games as they age is that the minimum amount of effort required is higher. Movies, TV, and music only require you to press play then it completes itself. Games require you to actively engage with it on some level for you to see it to the end. I think books also suffer from this which is why audio books have become popular.
"Am I too old for gaming?"
"This is why death is so important"
I love this show haha
I feel the same way about being in my mid 30's and still playing games and trying to enjoy and understand how technology, games, stories, are.... When talking to some folks my age and older, I always get treated oddly and get shunned for being like this... Im just glad that there are mediums like your channel that are good outlets to talk about these things!
1:00:59 way to bring it full circle bravo. Love you guys please don’t ever stop
This episode in particular, but also the Outer Wild and Spec Ops the Line videos, got me more into what you guys actually do (since I have not played most games you talk about). Everything you talk here just very much matched with my situation in life and my experiences beeing an adult gamer surrounded by mostly non-gamers. It convinced me to join and support you guys.
When I was growing up in Latin America, Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross intrigued me so much they inspired me to learn the English language. There’s no such thing as too old for games-there’s a reason old men playing chess at the park is a stereotype. All types of games are for everyone.
When you shared your personal struggles and the attempt to end your life, I was deeply moved and saddened. I wish you could have felt a comforting hug. I think it's important for games to address these issues more openly. I believe many people can relate to and benefit from such conversations. You guys are awesome !
I started watching this podcast when I was 19 and I’m 21 now, and I think you guys are awesome.
“Everyone knows conservative is a good thing”
-Mike switches camera off Casen-
“Hey put that back on me!”
😂
Guys I'm going NUTS with the new direction of the show and the new themes. These are fantastic!!!
Casem's impression of the stodgy old pontificator is spot on, lol.
I'm 41 and I've played them my whole life.
Don't think I'll ever get "too old" for games (I am 33), this has been a consistent core hobby for me since I was very little. Life gets busy, and you do need to get a lot more picky about what you're playing -- time investment just has to feel worth it, so I have lost a lot of my patience for grindy timesink games where progression feels like doing chores, at the same time I still look for games that have enough content for me to play over several months, or with a story or setting that makes me interested in seeing everything the game world has to offer. So while I'm certainly playing fewer games, and I'm a lot less enthusiastic about new releases, I'm also appreciating what I do end up playing that much more.
Besides that, socially, gaming is fairly normalized among my peers -- I sometimes even chat about it at work with my boss. And for what it's worth, my 70 year old step-father has been playing Civilization 5 for the past 10 years, and when he married my mother, it was his PSOne collection that became mine. That's how I played Tactics Ogre for the first time!
I don't think one can truly become "too old for video games" anymore than one can become too old for games in general (is there such a thing as "too old for checkers" or "too old for bingo"?), or to become too old for movies. But you do become more discerning in your tastes, and more economical with your time --- so things that used to matter to you, and matter to "the kids these days," start seeming a lot more petty... they do become petty compared to all the responsibilities of adulthood. Most games aren't worth playing, most movies aren't worth watching, most books aren't worth reading -- maturity crystallizes your personal criteria of quality and makes the curation of that content which is worth it much easier, I find. And you know, having kids sometimes gives you an excuse to play goofy games as an adult you might not have ever played as a teenager or younger man, rather than depriving you of the time for gaming!
tl;dr video games are a legitimate hobby at any age - in my adult experience I actually have never been in a situation where it was treated as aberrant or unusual, not even in professional settings, I can't even count how many gaming conversations I've had with lawyers lol
This episode went places
I don’t necessarily feel too old for games, but I do often feel too old for most modern games. There might be a new game every few months that I get genuinely excited for, whereas when I was younger it felt like there were dozens of games that I wanted to play at any given time. I think the fact that I still play and enjoy tons of retro games is evidence of that. Most new games are being made for the younger/larger audience, and their likes and sensibilities are different than those of the previous generation.
Thank you Mike and Casen for making this channel and for being honest and genuine with your thoughts and feelings, regardless of the topic. It's truly a gift.
Hope y'all do a blind playthrough of Metaphor: ReFantazio for the podcast
Has a ton of symbolism and themes prime for discussion
From what I've played so far, the game seems like it would fit this podcast like a glove.
Wow I was just thinking this. Especially the grotesque humans
@@brightmamba889 yeah! I'm sure they would have a lot of thoughts about that
very much appreciate you being so candid and open towards the end of this episode Mike. I also struggle looking externally for that "answer", for that one thing that will allow me to begin the rest of my life, but the answer is within us somewhere, if there even is an answer at all.. anyway keep up the great work guys, this was a fantastic discussion
I gotta say, as someone who recently hit the big 3-0 and at that same time was grinding the Trails series, it was weird how I instinctively tried to focus on and gravitate towards the few key characters (both heroes and villains) in their late 20's and 30's. Naturally, its just a game but it sucks not being able to put myself in the shoes of the main heroes anymore
Same age here, almost 40, with 2 kids. I feel like I don’t play just because the older you get the less free time you have. In that sense I feel one can have a certain age where gaming is just not a priority, but definitely the phrase “too old” kind of doesn’t match, because when I am really old, and the kids have families of their own, I will definitely pick gaming back.
Am I too old to be gaming? Maybe. Is that going to stop me? Absolutely not! Great podcast like always. For what it's worth, I'm really enjoying this new podcast schedule.
Man, you guys POPPED OFF on this one.
Also at the end there, Mike- I totalllllyy resonated with what you were grasping at with Jung. As an atheist, my initial inclination was skepticism since Jung’s model is not strictly empirical.
That is until putting his method into practice. Fucking Atomic in terms of life change and the journey to self-mastery.
Like you guys, Jung (and philosophy/psychology broadly) came from an interest in video games. It’s an incredible medium that can hide profound, life-changing things in a deceitfully “low art” veneer. Trying to blow off some steam? BOOM, Nietszche! Just another few minutes before bed? Wapow, individuation!
Keep this up, you two!
What you said about not feeling as upset about the Nintendo directs and such is something I've also felt for awhile but I don't think it's like "oh I'm dead and no one cares about me", I think it's cause a lot of those people who are real mad about it are real young people who don't have the same responsibilities and things that they have to prioritize that we do (I'm also 37). So you know, I think we changed as we got older, and that's fine.
Also screw that Neuralink stuff, I'm not putting that charlatan shit in my brain.
The old generation was so hypocritical, they would spend hrs in front of the tv watching war dramas and soap ops, but yet "claimed" that video games destroyed our minds. Man, I will tell you right now. I learned so much in my adolescent childhood playing video games. It was as much of an entertainment hobby as it was furthering my educational cognitive development; hand eye coordination, reflexes, real world problem solving, English, literary analysis, creative writing, reading. The many introspections we gained that relate to life experiences, presented through this wonderful medium. Now look at us. We took the world by storm and now it’s ingrained deeply into our society and used for business and even schools are using it now to teach kids. So these parents of the 1980's-1990's were just simply put, wrong!!
How ever I do think some of the modern recent trends are unhealthy such as the gacha systems or having kids play games on their phones and tablets all day long.
I mean I distinctly remember those same people being critical of over indulging in TV, too.
Too much stimulation from passive entertainment is a problem. Attention spans are demonstrably smaller. There's a reason Casen isn't giving his kids complete freedom with electronics
@@themeangene True, you have to seek moderation with anything you do. But the idea, and I guess the "mentality" behind games just rotting our brains, was just incorrect. As I said, I learned ALOT in basic academics. I learned cartography and many other skills. Video games also shaped the way I would approach certain things in life, phycologically and physiolocially. Certainly there are types of games that can have bad influences, but I was mainly into RPG games, platformers, and adventure titles, so I didn't really experience that, except for maybe Grand Theft Auto, but that was a controversial game for everyone for obvious reasons.
Video games in general, though, as an artistic medium are not bad, like the way our folks tried to instill in our minds. There is so much you can take from the culture and the life lessons, and they can even be used as educational tools. For example, I remember playing Jurasic Park SNES. I had to draw and cartegraph my own maps to navigate the game; I had to solve very difficult and complex puzzles in order to progress, and I was rewarded for my efforts. Teachers and the parents of those years just didn't grasp how video games were more than just a passive entertainment hobby.
You’re exploring the artistic potential of games. Conveyed that way, I think many will get and respect that!
Excellent expansion of the topic. Thank you for your honesty, vulnerability, and reflective insights. Loving the increased content!
Casen REALLY getting into character with those old man glasses, im surprised Mike didnt get a white cotton wig to match.
At the risk of confirming my confirmation bias. I feel like we are on the same wavelength. As a 30 something, you all feel like the older brothers I never had
I am so grateful you guys are doing these extra episodes a week. They are so insightful and resonate (pardon the pun) with me on such a deep level. Mike, thank you for being so open and honest about your struggles with depression. I am 34 and video games have long been a companion to depression and help me find meaning and joy in life. Thanks as always for everything you guys do. All love!
Been watching since 2017-2018. If anything this channel has helped me deal with that feeling. Gaming has taught me so much and this channel has absolutely enriched that experience for me. I'll be 80 years old gaming with my kids 😂
Thank you for giving us grown-folk conversations like this.
This idea is silly. Sweden just put together an Esports sniper team with a bunch of 60+ dudes. And I think it's the most badass thing I've ever seen
Casen, you’re not fully accurate about Galileo at 1:06:05 -they didn’t condemn Galileo for being divergent, they condemned him for publishing a hypothesis as though it were fact without being able to prove it. Galileo also wrote a book with his patron the pope as a fool. Pride was Galileo’s downfall, not innovation.
This is great. I imagine like many others who watch this channel, we see some version of the best moments with our friends in you guys. Thanks for the humorous tone with drops of seriousness mixed in. Great stuff.
I’m starting to listen to this today via Spotify and couldn’t help but mention - it was because of gaming that I met my wife. She runs a WOW guild and I didn’t even play wow haha. But without the community of people who engage, I wouldn’t be where I am today!
Man, I'm of similar age to both of you. I've been playing video games since preschool and I've played a veritable plethora of genres. I'm with Casen here in that I can still see myself realistically playing games until I'm old. However, I play less games these days because games are inherently targeted at children, teens, and young adults. Not many games out there that feature protagonists in their late 30's or games that focus around issues that someone in their early 40's would go through. Either way, always nice to listen to your guys' podcasts.
Does anyone know where the intro and outro song comes from? It's really catchy imo
I forgot what the story with the intro is, but the outro is an original composition by Yasunori Mitsuda himself! Mitsuda wrote it for a friend of the show, who in turn gave it to Mike to use for the podcast (not sure who orchestrated it though, or if there's even a full version online). They might respond here, we'll see.
The video game culture needs more conversations like this to elevate it in people’s minds.
To answer the question for myself: I’m in my 40s, and if I didn’t enjoy games I’d have one less thing to participate in with my kids. Beyond that, games have developed a cinematic quality that lets me experience the story at least as well as a movie or Netflix binge-watch, but I get to actively participate in the challenge of the game in order to see how the story ends.
I categorize games in two ways and I think you guys pretty much hit the nail on the head with my feelings. It's true with any art form, there's this parallel with the medium where some of it is just made to kind of waste your time. It's the doomscrolling effect. Sometimes you just want to sit on a couch and zone-out and watch TV. You want to just go on auto-pilot and play a couple matches of a game or watch the whatever made-for-TV movie that the cable channel is playing at the time.
I think those are valid games but the second category is what we're all here for. I think a lot of multiplayer games fall into the first category. Some amazing works of art in their own right but a lot of it's done to just pass the time.
The second category of games for me is almost exclusively single player games. I like reaching the end of something and I think that's important to recognize. Finishing Outer Wilds felt like finishing a good book, you know? You get to the end of this crazy game and you can sit with it and you can think about it and you don't need to keep trying to get every dollar out of it. You're done.
I think that second category of video game is honestly peak art and it's a shame that it gets lumped in with the first category so easily
Well, yeah man, but admittedly…of all the games you played. How many are in that category? How many in comparison with other media? Even in RPGs and JRPG’s this kind of game is rare…
The argument that other media has more instances of better narratives seems to me to hold water…same in the anime category…almost completely juvenile junk food…
@@AdalbertoMaggioJunior
Honestly, I'd say most of the games I play these days are those games.
Take it, I probably playthrough about 10 games a year if that - but this year, Crow Country, Pseudoregalia, Chants of Senaar, Gravity Circuit, Elden Ring DLC, and Animal Well did it for me for sure. Though I played a few that didn't stick the landing as much too.
Hilariously I spend more time looking for games than I do playing them but I think something that I find important is to listen to the right people and go outside of your comfort zone when it feels right.
You mention JRPGs and RPGs and honestly, I think that genre can be amazing - that's why I'm on this channel lol. But none of my favorite games of the last decade really fall under that category.
The main thing I look at and follow is new game design. Passion projects of people who want to make a game not to be rich but because they want that game to exist. I find when you find those games and try to take it for what it is - instead of what you are expecting of a genre or what you expect yourself to like, it can be a lot better of an experience.
Razbuten, Jacob Geller, Snowman Gaming, GMTK. Those are all channels I suggest for finding some amazing games
@@Hot__d_o_g yes, spending more time looking for good games than playing is a thing and I am also subscribed to some of the channels you mention…
Point was however, that there being a lesser percentage of these excellent works than in other media seems to anecdotally be true…
@@AdalbertoMaggioJunior Ya, super fair. I think that will all come with time as indie games come and come. This media has just reached a point in the last decade where it's actually possible for people to make passion projects.
There's no doubt there are some amazing games that go under all of our radars. I think someone like Daniel Mullins is a huge inspiration for me personally - he just keeps making games and does his thing and does it well and has been doing it for years. After playing Inscryption, I love that I can go back through his catalogue and see a game like Pony Island, which holds up, and it was just sitting there for years unbeknownst to me.
Games are getting easier and easier to make which is super cool and I think the landscape of games in the next ten or twenty years will look very similar to that of movies. Young people coming into games at that time will have a GIGANTIC well of games to choose from and new ones will keep coming.
@@Hot__d_o_g you get it. The industry and journalists have to give reality it’s dues when talking about the media. The point that compared to other media there are fewer works suitable for thirty year olds and onwards on games and anime is a thing…that critics and journalists choose to consistently ignore and then proceed to talk about how it’s art etc etc…
I'm 38 and in the same boat as you having grown up with video games. Video games can be valuble art.
Minor spoiler for FF XIV Mike, but a character all but says the quote "Look your enemy in the eye and see compassion." as well there. It was a good moment there too.
I do kind of get the "too old for video games" argument, but for me it's more of a question of physical and mental dexterity. If video games are art, then it's an interactive art. So it asks certain requirements from its viewer/participant. I can absolutely see how people can, over time, become unfit to capably play games like Counter Strike, Escape from Tarkov, Sekiro etc because of slower reflexes. Also, the average playthrough of video games (18 hours according to HLtB) is more than the average novel, movie or music suite, so at some point it would be mentally taxing to keep all the information in your head. Dementia runs in my family, so I'm dreading the day when I won't be able to remember the story of games like RDR2 or Kiseki by the time I finish them.
I get that this is a different problem than the original topic. Wishing everyone good health and many years of video game enjoyment!
Yeah, that's something I can agree with. Heck, even when younger, I couldn't play some games because they make me sick. Literally. Like some people get car sick and such. Hasn't stopped me from enjoying other types of games, though.
Early onset dementia runs in my family. I'm definitely going to enjoy whatever games I want, for as long as I can.
I’m 43 and I still play video games (mainly RPGs) like I did when I was a teenager while also balancing family life and work. You have to be really creative when finding the time to do it but I somehow make it work!
Im the same age as you guys, and I make video games. I also play them like crazy. I also have 3 kids that play video games. Whenever someone asks me what I do im proud to say I make video games, if they dont think thats cool then thats fine. I know its my dream job, I know my kids love it and have learned a lot from it. Age does not matter, the medium does not drive the audience the content does, just like with anything else. (although the medium is pretty sweet)
I rarely watch tv and movies, so video games are where I get most of my entertainment from. I'm never going to stop playing them. The stories, as you guys have analyzed in great detail on your channel rival and are sometimes even better than most tv shows and movies. On another note, that thumbnail is something else. xD "Old" Mike and Casen. lol
Just turned 40 this month. I get less and less time to play and my expectations of quality have increased drastically over the years. I have been playing more indie retro rpgs of late. I’m currently playing CrossCode for the first time. I’m thoroughly loving it. Highly recommend for anyone who hasn’t played it yet.
Never too old for anything! Specially to enjoy video games. Actually, I’m on my early 30s and I enjoy and appreciate gaming stories now more than ever! Love your podcasts! I don’t comment much but I joined your Patreon for a couple of years during Covid and definitely watch all of your videos. Watched FFX, FF8 and Nier Automata analysis a couple of times already! 😅 I hope the majority of the community supports this channel cause u guys can’t go anywhere. The gaming industry need you! Thanks and keep up the great work.
One of your best episodes to date! Cheers guys and keep it up!
Thank you for this awesome episode! Loved it.
I've been really feeling like this as well: too old for video games due to too many responsabilites (work, wife, daughter, house...), and somehow I played through a bunch of RPGs this last year (sea of stars, star ocean 2, chained echoes, bug fables, so on). I just can't not play games hahaha
Also, shout out to the discord server. I remember fondly 2017-2018. European here who actually met with others in London!
Always cherishing you guys and your continued work. Keep going!
-JCrossJ
13:30 OMG since when was Mike married? Congratulations bro!
Great podcast! Life's hard enough as it is when people are kind to one another, let alone when people actively ignore each other's plight.
I'm approaching 45 years of age and been gaming since the Atari days. I have a wife and 2 kids. Work a full time job. Yet when I can, I still enjoy gaming almost as much as I did with a kid.
I'm still blown away at the imagination and magic of games and likely will until I'm old and incapable of playing anymore. Nothing wrong with enjoying this hobby as long as you're not neglecting your other responsibilities.
I'm glad this channel exists as we really aren't the target demographic of gamers anymore yet we have so much knowledge and experience with games but not many spaces to converse with others about it.
I lament the passage of time, all the time. 42 in December, maybe then i will get all the answers.
Speaking of phased out of the demographic, I played Scarlet Nexus and realized that “this was not made for me”. I felt that way for Tales of Arise too, I felt that it was made for teens to 20s and felt so out of touch.
My parents in their 60s still plays mario kart on the switch, and started back in 92 with mario kart on the SNES. I know my mom said that they started with game&watch before the NES in the mid 80s.
My grandparents died of Covid in their 90s so not around but I do remember my grandpa playing Uncharted 2 in his late 70s - last time I saw him play.
My parents btw had jobs, own houses (home in the city and a summer house) and owned many animals and had kids- yes you have "TIME" to play games. Anyone claiming they dont have time for games in their 30s or 40s is just choosing x,y or z before "games". You think people dont have time to watch movies, watch sports either?!
It's funny the age gap allowance. I'm 60+, have been gaming nearly non-stop since the late 70s, and ppl find out I'm an avid gamer I get fascination from them.
Recently turned 35, so this episode was a fun and relatable listen, even when you guys kinda veered off topic lol.
Entertainment is the new religion honestly. Its how you make friends and meet people. Its how you learn values and life lessons. Liking or hating media is how people preemptively judge you and come to hate you.
I love these talks. Great that we get this along side the game focussed ones as I prefer to play the games you cover and I don’t have loads of time. 👍🏿
I'm about to turn 36, The thought never entered my mind, I've been playing video games for as long as I can remember ( Since the NES) and I haven't slowed down since. Will for sure be gaming into my late eighties if possible :D
I'm 43 turn early next year 44. I learned early in my life that people are products of their close environment. I'm working at the front desk of an car dealership doing all kinds of stuff and I work with people who are so much into cars and tuning and stuff as I'm into video-games and pen and paper RPG. Your early life leaves an immense imprint on you. Either your closes friends or family will spark your first hobby. Some people who don't have much friends will take their parents as a role-model. I see that there every day at work. It's a family business and both kids of my female junior boss and her husband (who's our head of storage) are so into his work and his interests that's like I was into video-games. I play more then 3 times a week video-games. A lot less since I got a new engaged but still I need that as much I need to spend time with my soon to be wife.
I never comment because I hate wasting words when I don't have anything legitimately noteworthy to say. However, I'll do it here just to boost your algorithm. Great work guys. Keep it up and don't lose the drive this meaningful art to others.
It brought me so much joy when you guys brought up Crossfire! I still think about that commercial today lol and it was an absolute must have for Christmas one year. I've even showed my kids that old commercial! Haha
Wonderful episode boys! Keep it up!
Hi guys god bless you both.im 48 grew up in Atari /nes era..I feel the exact way myself.every year that passes I think this the year I'll stop being interested in gaming.it never does I'm in the island Trinidad close to Venezuela in the caribbean.you guys keep up the wonderful work your both doing..
You guys don’t look even close to nearly 40.
Gaming keeps you young dude ❤️🙌🏻
This was refreshing. I agree so much with all of this specially the AI pieces. I really appreciate that both of you approach these topics with such broad interests and perspectives that aren’t just gaming centric.
Edit to add: Gaming is my 30s hobby. As a kid it was reading, as a teenager and into 20s it was anime. Since it’s newer to me it doesn’t feel old at all. In some ways I feel too old now for anime or YA books. It’s also harder to find any new books or anime I truly like anymore. It makes me glad to still have great games to explore until I get burned out of them too.
God bless you guys. I'm so thankful for this podcast. The discussions you guys have on this podcast brings so much value to my life. Just like how Xenogears, Outer Wilds and Nier Automata have changed your perspective on life, this podcast has certainly done that for me. Thank you both so much from the bottom of my heart.
Absolutely loved this discussion guys!
My boys dropping a Crossfire reference! 😂 I never got to play the actual game but I’ll always remember that commercial!
Im 43 and I tried fortnite, and I love it! I hated at one point, but you got to try it. You will understand once you take the time to play it.