These transcriptions were mostly done with Bach was quite young (25ish), and were written to perform for his employer at the time, Duke Johann Ernst of Saxe-Weimar, who was said to like Vivaldi's music. So I suspect the relative simplicity of the pieces was partly inexperience, and partly to stay within the style of Vivaldi.
Yeah but he also wrote BWV 582 during that age as well, and that's one of the most insane pieces for organ ever written. I don't know how inexperienced he could've been.
Bach's employer at the time was Duke Wilhelm Ernst. Prince Johann Ernst was the younger half brother of the co-ruler of Saxe-Weimar, Duke Ernst August, and was just a teenager. He returned from the Netherlands with tons of brand new Italian concertos by the leading composers of the day. He may have asked Bach to arrange these, but Bach certainly took the opportunity to learn more about the Italian way of composing. If you listen to his cantatas written after his promotion to Konzermeister, you can see how Bach's style of writing changed.
anyway he trascribed a vivaldi's concert into his concert for 4 harpsichords bmw 1065 twenty years after these first transcriptions. so i suspect he really liked vivaldi's stuff, "relative simplicity" or not (lol). i'm sorry. LUL. ps: dont worry kid, one day u'll laugh too
I bet when Bach did these transcriptions, he thought of them as an interesting exploration. Although he did incorporate & learn the different styles of certain composer, But only to expand his ideas & give more abundance to his old style, mixing the two & making it somewhat contemporary at the same time. But he still knew he was the best at what he did, & these transcriptions were not intended to treat those composers as equal value to himself. Cause I bet he can see certain parts of their concertos to be improved & how he would put so much more creativity & intensity for doing it this way instead of their way, but in all respect to them, he did not take action, only thought about it for his own benefit of exploring new ideas & incorporating it to his style to add more color & taste to his day of age. Since people thought he was old fashioned, he needed to spark up his old magic to give it more attention perhaps.
Without knowing any facts, you just assumed that this is the case. Because in your mind that Bach is the god and how can god learn from others? Bach is not born great. He learned from many composers earlier or his cotemporaries. He did not invent suite, rather her learnt suite from French maters. He is not invent sonatas and concertos, the Italians did. Vivaldi did not start the concerto but her perfected it. Bach made an effort to transcribe Vivaldi as way of learning this Italian form. And Bach is not an expert in Sonata or Concerto form. He was an suite kind of composer as suite is enough of a form for him to practice his counterpoint and fugue. But when Italians concerto came along, Bach realizes what he is lacking comparing to the Italian masters. So he attended Vivaldi concerts in disguise as he would not want his Church employers to know. And he secretly studies Vivaldi, Marcelo, etc. Bach admired Vivaldi in particular with a passion. There is something in Vivaldi and Bach can't do well. He knew, he studied and the results is not so great. Bach's concertos and sonatas a second grade comparing to Italian masters, although Bach employed more sophisticated counterpoints in his transcription or composition. Bach's counterpoints are so sophisticated that it distract from the main story line.
@@weiliu7319 Just as you said in the very end, “Bach’s counterpoints are so sophisticated that it distracts from the main story line”. Well because Bach’s own intentions was not to become or be better than the Italian masters. He still intends to remain who he is, but it is not a crime in his mind to study & admire the works of others. He knows a great musician must not only stay close minded upon a certain idea, he must also incorporate & be influenced upon all types of music that takes place in his era. Not to become like them, but instead to potentially incorporate some flavors of his contemporaries in his own music. Making a twisted & more exciting version of old fashioned counterpoint music. Making the two combine will only enrich the beauty & feelings of the music. Because to him it is a necessity to add more of an expression of emotions at the same time with the counterpoint taking place. It just makes his music so much more abundant in so many ways rather than staying bland with only counterpoint & rules, with no extraordinary feelings or emotions involved. I believe this is why he thought it was a necessity to study the works of others, because if he wants his old fashioned music to still out in competition with his contemporaries, he must have done this! Since nobody was paying anymore attention to these old fashioned music with counterpoint. It was too complex for the mediocrity, it was too many rules to follow & simply would lose the value of simply just enjoying music. I believe this is what the people of those days thought, & that’s why this was Bach’s competition & even though he was one of the lessor known composers out there, but he was indeed still recognized as the underdog composer, who is known to have exquisite talent in counterpoint. He still stood out there despite the reason that his art was considered redundant of his days. So Bach remained known as a niche composer & and very specific one. Even though all others of his day who were still the remnant composers that were also old fashioned composers as Buxtehude for example, were not even known. I think Bach was probably the only old fashioned composer of his day that was actually still relevant & had a name for himself, even though he was lessor known compared to his contemporaries, but the fact that he was still out there is a huge giveaway of how great he was. Surely only after his death, he was more admired & known throughout the world now becoming the most famous baroque composer of his time. Not like inspiring his time where he was lessor known. Only time would tell what he would become remembered as throughout history. And I agree he is not a God, I don’t consider him in that way as others might, but I believe he was significantly better than all other composers of his time but only in a level of musical genius, not by their own styles of music. As many people might prefer for example Vivaldi’s music over Bach cause they might enjoy it more. But that’s just a personal preference, I’m talking in truth Bach stands out above all others of his time once again by only being a musical genius at the levels of depth that are simply far beyond reach by any other composers of his time. That’s just the simple truth whether you like it or not. He is indeed the greatest in what he does.
5:04 !!! Best part IMO. Aaahhh those major 7th chords! That ostinato riding the tonic, leading tone, and supertonic! So beautiful.
Insanely beautiful! Just gave me shivers, god damn!
++
What a beautiful recording, in the first two movements the instrument sounds clear and crisp, - the flight of third movement is amazing and fun!
If only we had a geruvivaldi among us as well... Oh well. Thank you as always!
There's one: Del Vivaldi.
@@IvanSRG. ^^^
@@IvanSRG. such a great channel!!
@@Nooticus Other great channel is The Bach Emulation Project.
@@IvanSRG. i know that one well yes!
the last part was realy amazing and a spectacle to listen.
The Larghetto actually begins at 2:33.
Thank you. The error has been corrected.
Thanks for uploading!
A very good harpsicord music🎹🙏 Thanks a lot
You can see various ways in which this piece influenced Bach's toccata of the same key
I believe the Toccata is in D *minor*
He wrote other toccatas...
I think they are referring to BWV 912, yet another exceptional piece!
@@Nooticus Sorry. Kinda assumed it was the famous one
@@leonhardeuler6811 No problem :D It's great to learn new stuff :D
Gracias por compartir!
So good
These transcriptions were mostly done with Bach was quite young (25ish), and were written to perform for his employer at the time, Duke Johann Ernst of Saxe-Weimar, who was said to like Vivaldi's music. So I suspect the relative simplicity of the pieces was partly inexperience, and partly to stay within the style of Vivaldi.
Yeah but he also wrote BWV 582 during that age as well, and that's one of the most insane pieces for organ ever written. I don't know how inexperienced he could've been.
Bach's employer at the time was Duke Wilhelm Ernst. Prince Johann Ernst was the younger half brother of the co-ruler of Saxe-Weimar, Duke Ernst August, and was just a teenager. He returned from the Netherlands with tons of brand new Italian concertos by the leading composers of the day. He may have asked Bach to arrange these, but Bach certainly took the opportunity to learn more about the Italian way of composing. If you listen to his cantatas written after his promotion to Konzermeister, you can see how Bach's style of writing changed.
anyway he trascribed a vivaldi's concert into his concert for 4 harpsichords bmw 1065 twenty years after these first transcriptions. so i suspect he really liked vivaldi's stuff, "relative simplicity" or not (lol). i'm sorry. LUL. ps: dont worry kid, one day u'll laugh too
I find that the marker on the scrolling score is well ahead of the sound, which is distracting.
I wonder if this transcriptions were some kind of preparation for his italian concerto or maybe he was just practicing the italian style.
No, they were a commission by Johann Ernst of Saxe-Weimar.
Ah good to know.
@@SimoneBattaglia94 where did you find that out?
I think that I read that for the first time in a book about Vivaldi's musical concordances by Sardelli but I'm not 100% sure.
Wasn’t there also another transcription by Bach for Organ on the same Vivaldi piece?
I think you're confusing this with BWV 593 and BWV 596 (both are organ transcriptions, but of different Vivaldi works).
RV=?
Eli Benicio RV230
Wasn't this uploaded a few hours ago?
rofl
I bet when Bach did these transcriptions, he thought of them as an interesting exploration. Although he did incorporate & learn the different styles of certain composer, But only to expand his ideas & give more abundance to his old style, mixing the two & making it somewhat contemporary at the same time. But he still knew he was the best at what he did, & these transcriptions were not intended to treat those composers as equal value to himself. Cause I bet he can see certain parts of their concertos to be improved & how he would put so much more creativity & intensity for doing it this way instead of their way, but in all respect to them, he did not take action, only thought about it for his own benefit of exploring new ideas & incorporating it to his style to add more color & taste to his day of age. Since people thought he was old fashioned, he needed to spark up his old magic to give it more attention perhaps.
Without knowing any facts, you just assumed that this is the case. Because in your mind that Bach is the god and how can god learn from others? Bach is not born great. He learned from many composers earlier or his cotemporaries. He did not invent suite, rather her learnt suite from French maters. He is not invent sonatas and concertos, the Italians did. Vivaldi did not start the concerto but her perfected it. Bach made an effort to transcribe Vivaldi as way of learning this Italian form. And Bach is not an expert in Sonata or Concerto form. He was an suite kind of composer as suite is enough of a form for him to practice his counterpoint and fugue. But when Italians concerto came along, Bach realizes what he is lacking comparing to the Italian masters. So he attended Vivaldi concerts in disguise as he would not want his Church employers to know. And he secretly studies Vivaldi, Marcelo, etc. Bach admired Vivaldi in particular with a passion. There is something in Vivaldi and Bach can't do well. He knew, he studied and the results is not so great. Bach's concertos and sonatas a second grade comparing to Italian masters, although Bach employed more sophisticated counterpoints in his transcription or composition. Bach's counterpoints are so sophisticated that it distract from the main story line.
@@weiliu7319 Just as you said in the very end, “Bach’s counterpoints are so sophisticated that it distracts from the main story line”. Well because Bach’s own intentions was not to become or be better than the Italian masters. He still intends to remain who he is, but it is not a crime in his mind to study & admire the works of others. He knows a great musician must not only stay close minded upon a certain idea, he must also incorporate & be influenced upon all types of music that takes place in his era. Not to become like them, but instead to potentially incorporate some flavors of his contemporaries in his own music. Making a twisted & more exciting version of old fashioned counterpoint music. Making the two combine will only enrich the beauty & feelings of the music. Because to him it is a necessity to add more of an expression of emotions at the same time with the counterpoint taking place. It just makes his music so much more abundant in so many ways rather than staying bland with only counterpoint & rules, with no extraordinary feelings or emotions involved. I believe this is why he thought it was a necessity to study the works of others, because if he wants his old fashioned music to still out in competition with his contemporaries, he must have done this! Since nobody was paying anymore attention to these old fashioned music with counterpoint. It was too complex for the mediocrity, it was too many rules to follow & simply would lose the value of simply just enjoying music. I believe this is what the people of those days thought, & that’s why this was Bach’s competition & even though he was one of the lessor known composers out there, but he was indeed still recognized as the underdog composer, who is known to have exquisite talent in counterpoint. He still stood out there despite the reason that his art was considered redundant of his days. So Bach remained known as a niche composer & and very specific one. Even though all others of his day who were still the remnant composers that were also old fashioned composers as Buxtehude for example, were not even known. I think Bach was probably the only old fashioned composer of his day that was actually still relevant & had a name for himself, even though he was lessor known compared to his contemporaries, but the fact that he was still out there is a huge giveaway of how great he was. Surely only after his death, he was more admired & known throughout the world now becoming the most famous baroque composer of his time. Not like inspiring his time where he was lessor known. Only time would tell what he would become remembered as throughout history. And I agree he is not a God, I don’t consider him in that way as others might, but I believe he was significantly better than all other composers of his time but only in a level of musical genius, not by their own styles of music. As many people might prefer for example Vivaldi’s music over Bach cause they might enjoy it more. But that’s just a personal preference, I’m talking in truth Bach stands out above all others of his time once again by only being a musical genius at the levels of depth that are simply far beyond reach by any other composers of his time. That’s just the simple truth whether you like it or not. He is indeed the greatest in what he does.
Vivaldi Op.3 N9