Absolutely!!! He didn't notice the Honda had never lifted off?? He didn't even notice the fire and black smoke? Not only ATC is giving instructions to airplanes, he must be monitoring all of them through the scope or out the window.
I think it is too easy to say "controller had no situational awareness". At that workload with multiple aircrafts, especially including VFR traffic, there is some regular flow, some "handling by default" and a lot you have to monitor. I assume they have a secondary radar, so in high workload situations the tower decision making is by radar and not by visual reference at all.
So sad... I was actually there yesterday when this happened, I was in a ground lesson in one of the hangers on the north side of the field less than a quarter mile from the crash. My instructor got a text that something was happening then rushed out onto the ramp where we saw the plume of smoke and fire. At first we were worried it could be a plane from our flight school. Praying for everyone involved and really want to learn what caused it.
@davecrupel2817 I was too tbh, I thought I would have heard something but I didn't, or if I did maybe it blended in with other sounds. Not too sure tbh
WOW…. As a retired controller I cannot believe how bad that was on the part of that initial controller. He completely failed to confirm the Hondajet had cleared the runway when he cleared the Cessna for takeoff. Every controller is, or should be, trained to constantly scan your area of control. He had no business clearing the Cessna to take off until he had visually or on radar, or on radio received confirmation the Hondajet was airborne
@ you can doubt anything you want dumbass, you have the right to be stupid. I spent 30 years at ZAU and C90, if you have any knowledge about the ATC system in America you know what that means.
"According to the FAA preliminary accident report, “[The] aircraft crashed under unknown circumstances on takeoff and struck a vehicle off airport property and [resulted in a] post-crash fire…” The HondaJet is registered to Ice Man Holdings in Mesa and, according to reports, was based at KFFZ. Weather and visibility appear to not be a factor-wind was calm and skies were clear around the time of the accident. Data recorded by ADS-B Exchange shows that the HondaJet accelerated to 133 knots groundspeed on 5,100-foot Runway 22L just before taxiway D3, about 1,300 feet from the end of the runway, then slowed to 103 knots by the runway end. The last data point shows the jet at 71 knots before crossing the perimeter fence. After hitting a vehicle on Greenfield Road, the HondaJet caught on fire. The NTSB is investigating the accident, which is the first HondaJet mishap to involve fatalities." Condolences to the family.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Depends on the circumstances, I have personally had some airline instructors unofficially recommend staying on the ground for a few moments after an engine failure at V1 to help maintain directional stability (which improves with speed, generally). Also, there could have been a flight control malfunction that made it impossible to lift the nose, or any other number of possibilities, like a heart attack or extenuating circumstance. We really can't second guess the pilot(s) until we know more information.
@ oh yes there could be a flight control issue .. trim mis configured or otherwise … what I’m saying is at 133 KIAS it likely took some effort to keep the airplane from flying … its dancing all over the runway at that point. Something has to be wrong.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Reminds me of 2021 accident of an MD-87 in which half the elevator was jammed due to high winds. The plane reached rotation speed, the captain pulled back and nothing happened. They aborted in the high-speed regime and overran the runway.
Engine 208, Engine 205, Engine 211, Engine 222, Ladder 206, Battalion 202, Battalion 203, Battalion 204, Medic 2206, AMR 210, Utility 208, and Foam 28 all Responded with Mesa Police Department Falcon 7 and additional Units. NTSB is currently investigating.
Five are indeed dead, but one of the five was the driver of the vehicle that was sheared-off at the chassis. They weren't "all five onboard" who received fatal injuries.
I was on the ramp and saw it happening. HondaJet started normal take off run but never lifted off, we saw a massive white smoke trail, probably from the rubber when he tried to brake, and then a giant fireball. Please don't throw everything on the ATC, I'm flying there everyday, they usually have eyes on the radar to keep minimum separation between traffic, and I can imagine that you don't expect a new jet like this one to fail on T/O... RIP to all victims.
There is a normal timing that takes place. When the HondaJet took off, there would be a brief communication with the tower after takeoff. The Controller forgot about the HondaJet. No excuse.
@@holobolo1661 or brake, or bird strike, or fuel contamination, or mechanical failure, or heart attack, or WTF are you guessing and clutching at straws?
AvSafety report: "ADS-B data suggests the airplane had accelerated to about 133 knots groundspeed before it aborted the takeoff roughly 3400 ft down the runway. The airplane was unable to stop, overrun the end of the runway and went through the airport perimeter fence, before crashing into a vehicle on North Greenfield Road."
If I'm not mistaken, this is the first fatal HondaJet crash. We had one spin out at Midway - the first HondaJet arrival into Midway had a runway excursion in the rain and ended up stuck in the grass.
I bet he immediately thought the Cessna had a problem and aborted takeoff because of that, and subconsciously latched to that before realizing (and being told) the honda jet was the problem
I’ve been obsessed with plane crash report videos, and I didn’t foresee this happening but.. now I get really emotional whenever I read how many fatal injuries occurred. “All passengers perished” - my heart sinks and breaks whenever I read or hear those words now. The most innocent souls. They were just trying to get somewhere. To have to suffer a violent and terrifying death…. it’s so unfair. So unfair….
I flew out this airport a lot. This place gets a ton of traffic and the controllers are working hard to up with all of it. They were all great controllers when I used to fly here.
No idea, of course, what happened here, but hearing this incident immediately reminded me of a larger private jet, flown by two high-time pilots, that crashed on takeoff a few years ago. Accident investigation found that the pilots did not run routine taxi and pre-takeoff checklists. Also, the pin that locks the yoke in place while the aircraft is parked was still in, preventing the pilot from being able to pull the yoke back at V1 and rotate. The plane went off the end of the runway and crashed in a ditch. Both pilots and, if memory serves, one pax were killed.
Holy Heck! Isn't a simple stirring of the stick a pre flight requisite? You would certainly notice a yoke lock with that simple step. (Obviously I'm no pilot but just makes sense to me just as a proper walk around and inspection does)
I recall a similar if not the same incident with my former boss's plane. No injuries though and the jet was repaired and put back into service. I believe it was a Challenger and after this happened they made some changes to the bottom of the yoke so nothing would get stuck in there.
Could Tower not see anything? Cleared the next aircraft for takeoff while the Honda Jet was apparently not airborne, and had to ask a couple of times why they rejected.
Well I don't think you can assume that the visualisation is 100% in sync with the ATC comms? Maybe the HondaJet got airborne briefly which led the controller to look away and clear the next aircraft for take off?? It's a long runway so the Honda probably had time to abort if it had a problem on the roll?
@@gap9992it's nothing to do with the video visuals, it's about Tower asking twice what was happening N1312U: "There's a problem on the runway here, 12U" Tower: "Cessna U, Roger, what's the issue?" N628LA: "You have a fire" That took 8 seconds...18 seconds later... Tower: "Cessna 12U, and say, what's the reason?" 26 seconds since N1312U rejected, and Tower obviously still hasn't seen the fire
@@gap9992the adsb info says they never lifted off. No matter what the aircraft types are you can’t clear the preceding aircraft for take off until the other is airborne. He definitely was pushing too tight beyond the rules. For the Cessna behind the Honda jet they would need the Honda jet to be 3000ft passed the intersection the Cessna was at and airborne before the Cessna could taxi onto the runway. That definitely didn’t happen since the Honda jet never lifted off
@@icebox829you can actually anticipate the separation. The Cessna just can’t start their takeoff roll before the separation (6000’ and airborne because it’s a jet) is there. It does seem like the controller completely forgot about the Honda Jet though…
How is it that the tower was unaware of that accident? Even having been told, fire at the end of the runway, he then asks for confirmation ? Maybe he's working from home.
Wow, crazy how the tower was completely oblivious to the HondaJet just going off the runway. Having enough momentum to overrun the runway, over the grass and through the fence were they thinking they could still take off? RIP all on board.
Wow that’s got to be horrible to be the pilot and survive that. (Unless everything he did was by the book and not his fault.) prayers for him and all the family of the lost😢🙏🏻
@@BO-dc4xg could be worse, you could be the pilot that survived the Lexington crash that tried taking off on the wrong runway. A bell of a lot more than 5 people involved there.
October of 1984 I was parked at cargo at KSFO when a Clay Lacey Lear taking off in 28L went straight in between the runways throwing debris and flames 1000’ into the air. Tower didn’t even notice until a FedEx B747 asked tower “Do you want us to hold here for the Crash trucks?” Situational awareness was nill
ok, kinda of a low blow there, the controller was concentrating on the movements in the takeoff side of the field, handling, ground, air, movement, keeping departing and arriving aircraft safe, not watching the departure end, literally a mile away, Overworked
I'm surprised that everybody is asking if the fire is plane related. The first plane that lined up on the runway and was waiting for departure didn't realise that the plane in front never took off? Also , if there's a tower there , nobody in the tower noticed that the plane rolling to take off never departed? Finally , where the controller is looking? He cleared an aircraft and by the time it should be airborne and far from airport it doesn't appear or appears still in the airport perimeter.
Were they forced to abort after V1? It's highly unusual for an aircraft on rollout to overshoot the runway. Looks like their wheels never left the ground.
I fly here and it’s super busy with a lot of schools and training aircraft. After clearing the jet for takeoff he was probably more concerned with the training aircraft coming into land and departing looked away for a second. The way the fire looked at first was on the road and could have been a car. I don’t even think the Cessna taking off realized it was the plane in front of him just that there was a fire at the end of the runway.
Yeah, because the aircraft is pointed directly at the crash site. The controller is looking at a bunch of other things and likely assumed, like 99.99% of all other times, that the aircraft took off as expected. Rarely is it productive or efficient for an ATC to stare a plane down until it leaves its airspace. And there's no issue here because it's also expected and assumed that outgoing aircraft are not blind and can stop if they see an issue before ATC.
@@GOOBENsticks my complaint at the controller is that he never tried to contact the HondaJet. He needed to hand them off to Departure in a minute or less, and he should have verified the jet was clear before clearing the 172 for takeoff. But the fact that, even after he was informed of a fire near the end of the runway, he never checked on or tried to contact the jet tells me he forgot they were there. That's inexcusable for a controller. I know we're all human and can't be Superman, but unfortunately controllers are partially responsible for every life in their airspace and need to be as close to Superman as humanly possible. It's unfair, but that's how it works.
I've driven along this road hundreds of times when i used to work next to this airport so its really sad the black vehicle involved never saw it coming..R.I.P to all the victims.
A lot of morons in the comments. You can’t see the entire field all the time. Most fields are quite a few square miles that need to be scanned. The only thing concerning is that when the controller cleared the 2nd aircraft for takeoff on 22L, he didn’t verify the other aircraft had actually got airborne. Anytime you clear someone for takeoff, you should scan the entire length of that runway and the departure and approach ends. I remember way back in the day I had an aircraft land short of the runway in the grass and rolled up on the runway. I didn’t see that part so when I told them to turn onto the taxiway everything seemed normal until an airliner that was waiting for departure said, tower did you see that. I then enquirer seen what and they explained what had happened. Moral of the story, we can’t focus on just one plane, that is what is called tunnel vision, and tunnel vision will get people killed.
@@RetreadPhoto That's what happens when people are hired for the way they look rather than their competence. ATC has been doing DEI hires for several years now.
I agree with one comment. I'm an ex-controller and when you clear a fast mover (Jet) for take off then a Cessna calls for take-off a short time later. It is easy to anticipate that the runway is clear. It's been a few years but I think the rule says the departing aircraft must be clear of the end of the runway before a departure is cleared for take off. It DOESN'T say he must see the departing aircraft cross the end of the runway. A typical example of anticipating separation based on normal operations. In a very busy tower with lots of traffic the controller cannot watch all sections of the airfield continually. His most important area is clearance for take off and aircraft on final and inbound aircraft to the pattern. The other working controllers help watch for unforeseen situations. Wait for official FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers.
@@rvrrunner the scan is for more than just to see where the previous departure is at. The scan ensures nothing else got onto the runway inadvertently. Though you really need to see where the previous departure is at prior to issuing the next takeoff clearance. In my career I had two aircraft run off the runway and one that got airborne had an engine failure and touched back down on the runway. Anticipating separating is useful some of the time, but this is not one of those instances. When they do the review thy are going to ask why he issued that 2nd clearance and there is not a good answer to that
Seems like anyone who did see the issue did not report it to the tower in detail because (I presume) they don't want to tie up the radio and figure that the tower controller must also be seeing what they see...? The investigation will be informative. What a tragedy. Fly safe, everyone.
Wow...wondering what might happened ! those jets are very safe ...parking break on maybe....why jet did not abort taking off...no comunication , ATC totally no aware , so many questions !
And that's a good question. ✌️🙏 Even looking at the road placement and runway, given certain speeds "things can occur at) it seems there is also very little distance between that road and end of runway... A situation where "it could've been worse", obviously should be avoided...
One thing that concerns me is that the guy in the tower completely forgot about the HondaJet after clearing it for takeoff. Tower had NO CLUE that a fire existed and that the jet run off the runway. The guy in the tower is going on a long vacation. I was in the pattern at Torrance when a similar incident happened. Plane took off bingo fuel and crashed just outside the airport. Tower didn’t notice until the guy holding told tower about the crash.
So tower cleared one aircraft to land on 22L then cleared another to not only enter 22L but gave takeoff clearance, all before the HondaJet had left the runway. Then he asks twice why the aircraft aborted takeoff? Someone needs to find a new career...please.
That is legal in the US. Class D has minimum aircraft separation for runway operations. An aircraft can be cleared to depart or land before the aircraft in front has left the runway if minimum separation can be maintained. If the following aircraft is Cat I (think light single engine), the separation is only 3000'
@@FamiliarAnomaly Man, you were just itching to say DEI. You have literally no idea about the employment history of this person or the full story around the situation, but immediately jumping to conclusions as if they were factual. Typical of anyone bringing up DEI nowadays. as if it were even remotely a good discussion point toward fixing problems.
@@mudhat4873 Tower always see every runway on the field. It is atc in the departure or arrival or underway that does not see anything but radar screens because they are in a control central. In my local area witch is Stavanger SVG/ENZV there is a major control that talk to airplanes going to or from northern Atlantic route to and from the US and they used to sit in a bunker at the airport while recently they now stay in a bunker inside a mountain.Tower and ground atc sit and visualizely see all of the airport. The Tower does not hand over the trafic to departure before they are airborne and usually some hundreds of feet in the air.
Does anyone know if there were any people in the vehicle that was struck? This video states twice that all (5) aboard the jet received fatal injuries, but it does not mention anything about anyone being in the vehicle or not. From the live video, it looks like an active road running along the side of the airport, so it would seem there is a possibility someone was driving by and then was struck by the jet. And how did the tower not see there was a fire? Where is the tower on this airfield? They are usually positioned to be able to see the entire airport, or as much of it as they can.
There seems to be some confusion because there were five occupants in the jet and five fatalities. The driver of the vehicle was one of the five fatalities. Four of the occupants of the jet were dead on scene. One is in the hospital with burn injuries.
Local news reports that the driver of the car also died. It seems 4 of the 5 persons on the Honda Jet died and that is how the death count is at 5 total.
N1312U.... "Um, we're not going to be taking off" Tower.... "Okay, why?" N1312U.... "There's a fire" Tower.... "Oh, okay. Go ahead and taxi off the runway" Tower.... "By the way, what did you mean about a fire?" Pretty casual on both sides.
The five fatalities so far are *not* all five occupants of the aircraft. Per local news outlet, four people on board died at the scene, one survived and is in the hospital with burn injuries. The driver of the vehicle is the fifth fatality.
Absolutely, overrunning into Greenfield is bad enough, thank God it didn't have enough momentum or was slightly airborne because this could have been much worse.
Everybody who ran with the story originally assumed that five passengers and five fatalities met everybody on the plane died, but up-to-date reports indicate that it was one of the occupants of the plane who is hospitalized. The names of the four deceased from the plane have been released, one is a private pilot type rated for this jet. “Sources” have indicated that it was another person who was the pilot, but that person doesn’t have any certificate in the FAA database
As a non-aviation guy who watches aviation videos, I always assume that tower controllers are actually looking out the windows. In this case I'm expecting him to check the runway to see if the HondaJet departed, see the fire, and immediately coordinate the emergency response. Yet here he A) doesn't see the fire, B) doesn't respond when the pilot stopping on the runway tells him of the fire, and C) tells the helicopter (?) to go ahead and call for the emergency response.
I'm sorry about the fatalities with the accident but must make a comment about all the trash talk about the controllers. I'm an ex-controller, commercial instrument pilot and have an FAA A&P which means I know a little bit about almost everything aviation. Wait for the FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers. He did nothing to cause this accident. If you have never been in a control tower at a busy airport then you have no idea what they must do and watching departing fast movers (Jets) isn't one of them. Once the jet was rolling and the Cessna called a short time later it is not unusual that the controller would have anticipated the Jet would be past the end before the Cessna began his take off roll. This happens continually and if you are a pilot, take note. As a side note its's been a few years but I think the rule says "A departing aircraft must be past the end of the runway before a departing aircraft is cleared for take off" It DOESN'T say the departing aircraft must be observed to be pass the end by the controller!. Anticipating separation under normal operations happens all the time.
I have been searching whether this particular aircraft engines can be set on reverse, with this mounting atop the wings. This looks like a situation where reverse would have been helpful.
Lots of people quick to criticise the controller here. What if the HondaJet got airborne briefly which led the controller to look away and clear the next slower aircraft for take off?? It's a long runway so the Honda probably had time to abort if it had a problem on the roll? Flaps? Does the HJ have take off config warning? I assume it does
To me, that scenario makes the most sense. Hard to stop when your wheels aren't even touching the ground. Small aircraft so it should have been able to off the ground pretty quickly, so maybe the pilot thought he had more room to put it back down.
The abort apparently occurred late (3500 feet down the 5100-foot runway) and at high speed (over 120 MPH). The Honda Jet is not capable of stopping before the end of the runway with those parameters in play.
@@Civ33 We operated fully loaded B-737-200's from 5,000-foot runways without any problems. The Honda Jet is a small light business jet designed for these runways.
Initial information was incorrect probably because reporters heard five onboard and five fatalities and just assumed.. Driver of the car was killed. One of the passengers of the aircraft is in hospital with burns.
Don't forget overweight, CG forward of forward CG limit, pressure port blocked for engine controls/readings, density altitude not calculated, refusal speed not calculated and, of course, pilot error. Pilot error would be a factor in all of the above.
@@kellyem33 Not a theory. If the CG is too far forward of the forward CG limit, you won't have enough elevator authority to get to the angle of attack on the main wing to produce enough lift get airborne. Excess total weight will cause slow acceleration which will prevent getting airborne on short runways. High density altitude has the same effect. The two above scenarios is why it is very important to calculate refusal speed, the speed you can accelerate to and safely bring the aircraft to a stop before the end of the runway. When I was in the Navy, I knew someone that was a part of an F-14 crew that did not calculate the refusal speed on a very hot and humid day on a short runway. The Tomcat was damaged trying to stop, ran off the end of the runway and had to be lifted onto a platform or trailer and brought back to AIMD (Aircraft Intermediate Maintenance Department).
@@kellyem33 No offense taken, just explaining how it is a tool used everyday (or supposed to be) to ensure safe flight. Just like emergency procedures (EPs) we had to remember verbatim. Had to use them a few times.
@@RetreadPhotoanyone else on frequency seeing the crash should have called Mayday Relay for the tower to be aware of the life threatening emergency, instead of just saying “smoke, fire”.
Waiting for further official information to be released. This comment will be updated.
Leave your condolences here.
Rest in peace 😢
Rest in peace
Terrible tragedy. A time to reflect on the fact that life is very, very short. I pray they all rest in peace.
Rest in peace 🙏
Rest in peace.
Man, the lack of situational awareness by the tower controller is concerning….
Absolutely!!! He didn't notice the Honda had never lifted off?? He didn't even notice the fire and black smoke? Not only ATC is giving instructions to airplanes, he must be monitoring all of them through the scope or out the window.
Dang Juan the controller must have been txt or something. How do you miss that.
Does that tower have windows? 🧐
I think it is too easy to say "controller had no situational awareness". At that workload with multiple aircrafts, especially including VFR traffic, there is some regular flow, some "handling by default" and a lot you have to monitor. I assume they have a secondary radar, so in high workload situations the tower decision making is by radar and not by visual reference at all.
@@thorben246confirming that the runway is clear before clearing departing traffic is a basic duty of a controller…
I work(ed) with one of the passengers, he was a GA pilot as well. Blue skies & tail winds, Spencer
just so sad.
So sad... I was actually there yesterday when this happened, I was in a ground lesson in one of the hangers on the north side of the field less than a quarter mile from the crash. My instructor got a text that something was happening then rushed out onto the ramp where we saw the plume of smoke and fire. At first we were worried it could be a plane from our flight school. Praying for everyone involved and really want to learn what caused it.
Kinda surprised yall missed it.
@davecrupel2817 I was too tbh, I thought I would have heard something but I didn't, or if I did maybe it blended in with other sounds. Not too sure tbh
same we saw lots of touch and goers as we came into town .... thought for sure it was one of em...
Tower: Cessna, what is your issue?
Cessna: It's your issue
Haha, but yeat I mean he could have been a bit more explicit "Aborting takeoff, stopping on the runway, there is a fire at the end of the runway"
@@Osiris57 What else was he supposed to say? He clearly wasn't aware of exactly what was going on at that point.
Don't make jokes over someone dying! You all are sick!
@@jamesbarca7229 well say something more than just : “stopping on the runway”
@@Osiris57 he was fully assuming the tower was aware, but they weren't.
WOW…. As a retired controller I cannot believe how bad that was on the part of that initial controller. He completely failed to confirm the Hondajet had cleared the runway when he cleared the Cessna for takeoff. Every controller is, or should be, trained to constantly scan your area of control. He had no business clearing the Cessna to take off until he had visually or on radar, or on radio received confirmation the Hondajet was airborne
I doubt very seriously you’re a retired controller. Too easy to say, on the random Internet.
As a retired commercial pilot I 100% agree with @efoxxok7478
@@RetreadPhoto as a non-retired controller I agree with the retired controller
@ you can doubt anything you want dumbass, you have the right to be stupid. I spent 30 years at ZAU and C90, if you have any knowledge about the ATC system in America you know what that means.
@@SpaceGeek321 As a non-retired, non-controller, I agree with the non-retired controller.
"According to the FAA preliminary accident report, “[The] aircraft crashed under unknown circumstances on takeoff and struck a vehicle off airport property and [resulted in a] post-crash fire…” The HondaJet is registered to Ice Man Holdings in Mesa and, according to reports, was based at KFFZ. Weather and visibility appear to not be a factor-wind was calm and skies were clear around the time of the accident. Data recorded by ADS-B Exchange shows that the HondaJet accelerated to 133 knots groundspeed on 5,100-foot Runway 22L just before taxiway D3, about 1,300 feet from the end of the runway, then slowed to 103 knots by the runway end. The last data point shows the jet at 71 knots before crossing the perimeter fence. After hitting a vehicle on Greenfield Road, the HondaJet caught on fire. The NTSB is investigating the accident, which is the first HondaJet mishap to involve fatalities." Condolences to the family.
V1 speed is 110 KIAS - At 133 Knots on a 5000 foot field, you had better already be airborne. OMG.
The FAA did a preliminary accident report on less than 24 hours? Isn’t that normally in 7-10 days?
@@AmericaFirstFLL Depends on the circumstances, I have personally had some airline instructors unofficially recommend staying on the ground for a few moments after an engine failure at V1 to help maintain directional stability (which improves with speed, generally). Also, there could have been a flight control malfunction that made it impossible to lift the nose, or any other number of possibilities, like a heart attack or extenuating circumstance. We really can't second guess the pilot(s) until we know more information.
@ oh yes there could be a flight control issue .. trim mis configured or otherwise … what I’m saying is at 133 KIAS it likely took some effort to keep the airplane from flying … its dancing all over the runway at that point. Something has to be wrong.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Reminds me of 2021 accident of an MD-87 in which half the elevator was jammed due to high winds. The plane reached rotation speed, the captain pulled back and nothing happened. They aborted in the high-speed regime and overran the runway.
Engine 208, Engine 205, Engine 211, Engine 222, Ladder 206, Battalion 202, Battalion 203, Battalion 204, Medic 2206, AMR 210, Utility 208, and Foam 28 all Responded with Mesa Police Department Falcon 7 and additional Units. NTSB is currently investigating.
Responding to smoking ruins.
dey all bee respondinn frum sprouts where de be gettin drinks on and snacks on while duh trucks be idlin and chillin outside
@nynphose Hollywood.
I was not on any of those units. 🚒🚒🚒
Five are indeed dead, but one of the five was the driver of the vehicle that was sheared-off at the chassis. They weren't "all five onboard" who received fatal injuries.
I was on the ramp and saw it happening. HondaJet started normal take off run but never lifted off, we saw a massive white smoke trail, probably from the rubber when he tried to brake, and then a giant fireball.
Please don't throw everything on the ATC, I'm flying there everyday, they usually have eyes on the radar to keep minimum separation between traffic, and I can imagine that you don't expect a new jet like this one to fail on T/O...
RIP to all victims.
There is a normal timing that takes place. When the HondaJet took off, there would be a brief communication with the tower after takeoff. The Controller forgot about the HondaJet. No excuse.
Stoopid ATC be like What issue? FIRE damn it
Over weight? Let's see what the reason for the abort was
Hopefully not something like on the citation jets. Stuck parking brake, and unable to accellerate enough...
@ It’s almost like he was unable to rotate … if that airplane was at 133 knots and still on the ground it must have been wild.
Gonna be interesting to see the report on this one
guessing t/o trim not set or cg/weight issue or flaps
@@holobolo1661 or brake, or bird strike, or fuel contamination, or mechanical failure, or heart attack, or WTF are you guessing and clutching at straws?
Looking at ads-b it almost looks like a post V1 reject
@@RetreadPhoto what's your problem buddy? Those are good guesses too. Some people... sheesh
@@holobolo1661Yes, while we do not yet know, some theories are much more likely than others.
AvSafety report: "ADS-B data suggests the airplane had accelerated to about 133 knots groundspeed before it aborted the takeoff roughly 3400 ft down the runway. The airplane was unable to stop, overrun the end of the runway and went through the airport perimeter fence, before crashing into a vehicle on North Greenfield Road."
Damn. A failed rejected take off. I wonder what the numbers are for safely doing this.
That’s insane. Well above V1. I wonder if he had a flight control lock engaged?
@@bittnerbsThey said they had a fire.
@@bittnerbsseems a lot like the gulfstream in Bedford.
Thanks. Could you drop us a link of the ADSB data?
RIP condolences to the family and friends
If I'm not mistaken, this is the first fatal HondaJet crash. We had one spin out at Midway - the first HondaJet arrival into Midway had a runway excursion in the rain and ended up stuck in the grass.
Kind of a rare jet hardly ever see one.
@@Mike-01234 Not so rare; there are 222 on the US registry alone.
I worked on the engine program for GE-Honda.
@@Mike-01234we see them all the time in GPT.
@@UncleKennysPlaceFamily member was Honda driver as his last ride b4 retirement. Said it was a dream to fly
@224valk4 he was old enough to retire yet never flew before? Wow
And so.. HondaJet got their first fatal case involving their jets
R.I.P to all victims
Yyou say that like its cause for celebration
@@bradsanders407learn some English, god
@@bradsanders407really? or are you that easily offended? he says it as it’s a historical moment for the company’s track record.
Yes. But previous incidents seem to indicate it has a hard time staying on runways.
Genuinely horrified, horrible way to go, that car looks like it's been thrown in a compactor. RIP to all :'(
Surprised ATC took so long to pick it up.
I bet he immediately thought the Cessna had a problem and aborted takeoff because of that, and subconsciously latched to that before realizing (and being told) the honda jet was the problem
i’m not, considering the time and location it would be like looking directly into the sun from where the tower is
I’ve been obsessed with plane crash report videos, and I didn’t foresee this happening but.. now I get really emotional whenever I read how many fatal injuries occurred. “All passengers perished” - my heart sinks and breaks whenever I read or hear those words now.
The most innocent souls. They were just trying to get somewhere. To have to suffer a violent and terrifying death…. it’s so unfair. So unfair….
Very sad but also horrible for the occupant(s) of the clearly visible destroyed car 😢
I have never seen a more destroyed car. This is heart breaking for the families
I flew out this airport a lot. This place gets a ton of traffic and the controllers are working hard to up with all of it. They were all great controllers when I used to fly here.
No idea, of course, what happened here, but hearing this incident immediately reminded me of a larger private jet, flown by two high-time pilots, that crashed on takeoff a few years ago. Accident investigation found that the pilots did not run routine taxi and pre-takeoff checklists. Also, the pin that locks the yoke in place while the aircraft is parked was still in, preventing the pilot from being able to pull the yoke back at V1 and rotate. The plane went off the end of the runway and crashed in a ditch. Both pilots and, if memory serves, one pax were killed.
Holy Heck! Isn't a simple stirring of the stick a pre flight requisite? You would certainly notice a yoke lock with that simple step. (Obviously I'm no pilot but just makes sense to me just as a proper walk around and inspection does)
I recall a similar if not the same incident with my former boss's plane. No injuries though and the jet was repaired and put back into service. I believe it was a Challenger and after this happened they made some changes to the bottom of the yoke so nothing would get stuck in there.
@ Exactly. Complacency kills.
Could Tower not see anything? Cleared the next aircraft for takeoff while the Honda Jet was apparently not airborne, and had to ask a couple of times why they rejected.
Well I don't think you can assume that the visualisation is 100% in sync with the ATC comms? Maybe the HondaJet got airborne briefly which led the controller to look away and clear the next aircraft for take off?? It's a long runway so the Honda probably had time to abort if it had a problem on the roll?
@@gap9992it's nothing to do with the video visuals, it's about Tower asking twice what was happening
N1312U: "There's a problem on the runway here, 12U"
Tower: "Cessna U, Roger, what's the issue?"
N628LA: "You have a fire"
That took 8 seconds...18 seconds later...
Tower: "Cessna 12U, and say, what's the reason?"
26 seconds since N1312U rejected, and Tower obviously still hasn't seen the fire
@@gap9992the adsb info says they never lifted off. No matter what the aircraft types are you can’t clear the preceding aircraft for take off until the other is airborne. He definitely was pushing too tight beyond the rules. For the Cessna behind the Honda jet they would need the Honda jet to be 3000ft passed the intersection the Cessna was at and airborne before the Cessna could taxi onto the runway. That definitely didn’t happen since the Honda jet never lifted off
His focus would naturally be on an airplane stopping on the runway. That would appear to be the emergency, especially when they referenced fire.
@@icebox829you can actually anticipate the separation. The Cessna just can’t start their takeoff roll before the separation (6000’ and airborne because it’s a jet) is there. It does seem like the controller completely forgot about the Honda Jet though…
How is it that the tower was unaware of that accident? Even having been told, fire at the end of the runway, he then asks for confirmation ? Maybe he's working from home.
Wow, crazy how the tower was completely oblivious to the HondaJet just going off the runway. Having enough momentum to overrun the runway, over the grass and through the fence were they thinking they could still take off? RIP all on board.
Maybe they had a mechanical failure and couldn't stop
@@Blast6926no thrust reversal, no speed brake, or ground spoilers, at any significant speed, good luck trying to stop it.
I'm wondering if they had a brake failure. Or a hydraulic failure.
I'm reading that pilot survived. 4 passengers plus the car driver were fatal.
Wow that’s got to be horrible to be the pilot and survive that. (Unless everything he did was by the book and not his fault.) prayers for him and all the family of the lost😢🙏🏻
@@BO-dc4xg could be worse, you could be the pilot that survived the Lexington crash that tried taking off on the wrong runway. A bell of a lot more than 5 people involved there.
October of 1984 I was parked at cargo at KSFO when a Clay Lacey Lear taking off in 28L went straight in between the runways throwing debris and flames 1000’ into the air. Tower didn’t even notice until a FedEx B747 asked tower “Do you want us to hold here for the Crash trucks?” Situational awareness was nill
ok, kinda of a low blow there, the controller was concentrating on the movements in the takeoff side of the field, handling, ground, air, movement, keeping departing and arriving aircraft safe, not watching the departure end, literally a mile away, Overworked
Maybe you should become a controller then
FedEx didn't have 747's in 1984. They didn't acquire 747's until the buyout of Flying Tigers in 1989.
I'm surprised that everybody is asking if the fire is plane related. The first plane that lined up on the runway and was waiting for departure didn't realise that the plane in front never took off? Also , if there's a tower there , nobody in the tower noticed that the plane rolling to take off never departed? Finally , where the controller is looking? He cleared an aircraft and by the time it should be airborne and far from airport it doesn't appear or appears still in the airport perimeter.
Condolences to the family or families affected.
Condolences and RIP.
So sad. God bless the families of those involved.
Heartbreaking no one survived I just think of all the lives that will be forever changed over this
Were they forced to abort after V1? It's highly unusual for an aircraft on rollout to overshoot the runway. Looks like their wheels never left the ground.
More like tried to abort after V1
Doubt the people in the car got out either. Rip to all involved
Apparently 4 were killed in the jet, one in the car. The/a pilot apparently survived.
Looks like the firefighter holding up 1 finger to indicate there was 1 person in the vehicle....the condition of that car is horrific.
So a small aircraft on the runway 3500 feet away could see the fire/crash but not the controller ?
I could see it from Tempe Town Lake and knew it was an aircraft (or at least aircraft fuel). This is unbelievable.
Wait and see. It's possible the controller was not on site. That's not uncommon. (at smaller airports)
I fly here and it’s super busy with a lot of schools and training aircraft. After clearing the jet for takeoff he was probably more concerned with the training aircraft coming into land and departing looked away for a second. The way the fire looked at first was on the road and could have been a car. I don’t even think the Cessna taking off realized it was the plane in front of him just that there was a fire at the end of the runway.
Yeah, because the aircraft is pointed directly at the crash site. The controller is looking at a bunch of other things and likely assumed, like 99.99% of all other times, that the aircraft took off as expected. Rarely is it productive or efficient for an ATC to stare a plane down until it leaves its airspace. And there's no issue here because it's also expected and assumed that outgoing aircraft are not blind and can stop if they see an issue before ATC.
@@GOOBENsticks my complaint at the controller is that he never tried to contact the HondaJet. He needed to hand them off to Departure in a minute or less, and he should have verified the jet was clear before clearing the 172 for takeoff.
But the fact that, even after he was informed of a fire near the end of the runway, he never checked on or tried to contact the jet tells me he forgot they were there. That's inexcusable for a controller. I know we're all human and can't be Superman, but unfortunately controllers are partially responsible for every life in their airspace and need to be as close to Superman as humanly possible. It's unfair, but that's how it works.
My friend watched it happen. Very sad. I was at Scottsdale Airport at the time.
I've driven along this road hundreds of times when i used to work next to this airport so its really sad the black vehicle involved never saw it coming..R.I.P to all the victims.
remember kids, when in flight school, to try and talk as fast as humanly possible with only 4 % of words /numbers being understood 😂
Always haunting, hearing the final transmission of a pilot.
Someone up above said they read the pilot survived and the 4 passengers and person in the vehicle were the fatal.
There was a blocked transmission when it passed the high speed exit, and what sounded like an audible alarm.
@@RetreadPhoto That sounded like an ATC alarm for a traffic conflict
A lot of morons in the comments. You can’t see the entire field all the time. Most fields are quite a few square miles that need to be scanned. The only thing concerning is that when the controller cleared the 2nd aircraft for takeoff on 22L, he didn’t verify the other aircraft had actually got airborne. Anytime you clear someone for takeoff, you should scan the entire length of that runway and the departure and approach ends.
I remember way back in the day I had an aircraft land short of the runway in the grass and rolled up on the runway. I didn’t see that part so when I told them to turn onto the taxiway everything seemed normal until an airliner that was waiting for departure said, tower did you see that. I then enquirer seen what and they explained what had happened. Moral of the story, we can’t focus on just one plane, that is what is called tunnel vision, and tunnel vision will get people killed.
DEI defenders awake
@@cibularas3485and there it is, I knew it would take less than an hour for the racists to pop up.
@@RetreadPhoto That's what happens when people are hired for the way they look rather than their competence. ATC has been doing DEI hires for several years now.
I agree with one comment. I'm an ex-controller and when you clear a fast mover (Jet) for take off then a Cessna calls for take-off a short time later. It is easy to anticipate that the runway is clear. It's been a few years but I think the rule says the departing aircraft must be clear of the end of the runway before a departure is cleared for take off. It DOESN'T say he must see the departing aircraft cross the end of the runway. A typical example of anticipating separation based on normal operations. In a very busy tower with lots of traffic the controller cannot watch all sections of the airfield continually. His most important area is clearance for take off and aircraft on final and inbound aircraft to the pattern. The other working controllers help watch for unforeseen situations. Wait for official FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers.
@@rvrrunner the scan is for more than just to see where the previous departure is at. The scan ensures nothing else got onto the runway inadvertently. Though you really need to see where the previous departure is at prior to issuing the next takeoff clearance. In my career I had two aircraft run off the runway and one that got airborne had an engine failure and touched back down on the runway. Anticipating separating is useful some of the time, but this is not one of those instances.
When they do the review thy are going to ask why he issued that 2nd clearance and there is not a good answer to that
Seems like anyone who did see the issue did not report it to the tower in detail because (I presume) they don't want to tie up the radio and figure that the tower controller must also be seeing what they see...? The investigation will be informative. What a tragedy. Fly safe, everyone.
Wow...wondering what might happened ! those jets are very safe ...parking break on maybe....why jet did not abort taking off...no comunication , ATC totally no aware , so many questions !
why is there no catchment area at the end of the runway for brake failures or rejected takeoffs?
And that's a good question. ✌️🙏
Even looking at the road placement and runway, given certain speeds "things can occur at) it seems there is also very little distance between that road and end of runway...
A situation where "it could've been worse", obviously should be avoided...
Very common. Airports aren't going to buy extra land that is almost never used if they don't have to.
One thing that concerns me is that the guy in the tower completely forgot about the HondaJet after clearing it for takeoff. Tower had NO CLUE that a fire existed and that the jet run off the runway. The guy in the tower is going on a long vacation.
I was in the pattern at Torrance when a similar incident happened. Plane took off bingo fuel and crashed just outside the airport. Tower didn’t notice until the guy holding told tower about the crash.
It’s not normal that a plane just blips off your screen either there, fells. Lighten up in the controller.
You know nothing
Yeah how dare atc keep their eyes on the radar to keep planes from crashing in to each other.
@@RetreadPhoto Ground radar? What do you mean?
So tower cleared one aircraft to land on 22L then cleared another to not only enter 22L but gave takeoff clearance, all before the HondaJet had left the runway. Then he asks twice why the aircraft aborted takeoff? Someone needs to find a new career...please.
Controller's assessment module is weak.
That is legal in the US. Class D has minimum aircraft separation for runway operations. An aircraft can be cleared to depart or land before the aircraft in front has left the runway if minimum separation can be maintained. If the following aircraft is Cat I (think light single engine), the separation is only 3000'
Didn't they change the ATC test in the last years? DEI dividends paying off...
@@FamiliarAnomaly Man, you were just itching to say DEI. You have literally no idea about the employment history of this person or the full story around the situation, but immediately jumping to conclusions as if they were factual. Typical of anyone bringing up DEI nowadays. as if it were even remotely a good discussion point toward fixing problems.
atc dei
Note that there are 222 HondaJets on the US Registry, obviously more around the world.
Crazy that was my home airport for training few years ago. RIP
Unbelievable, ATC didn't even noticed............ Unbelievable.
How were they supposed to see something they didn’t have the ability to see?
@@mudhat4873 Tower always see every runway on the field. It is atc in the departure or arrival or underway that does not see anything but radar screens because they are in a control central. In my local area witch is Stavanger SVG/ENZV there is a major control that talk to airplanes going to or from northern Atlantic route to and from the US and they used to sit in a bunker at the airport while recently they now stay in a bunker inside a mountain.Tower and ground atc sit and visualizely see all of the airport. The Tower does not hand over the trafic to departure before they are airborne and usually some hundreds of feet in the air.
@@mudhat4873 Visual or on radar they should know because otherwise what's the point of having ATC?
I really hope this isn’t going to be a failure to disengage the gust lock accident! Prayers for those lost, and awaiting official findings.
I train out of FFZ so just a small correction. 5 people did die but 4 were in the aircraft and 1 was driving a car that the plane crashed into.
Does anyone know if there were any people in the vehicle that was struck? This video states twice that all (5) aboard the jet received fatal injuries, but it does not mention anything about anyone being in the vehicle or not. From the live video, it looks like an active road running along the side of the airport, so it would seem there is a possibility someone was driving by and then was struck by the jet.
And how did the tower not see there was a fire? Where is the tower on this airfield? They are usually positioned to be able to see the entire airport, or as much of it as they can.
There seems to be some confusion because there were five occupants in the jet and five fatalities.
The driver of the vehicle was one of the five fatalities. Four of the occupants of the jet were dead on scene. One is in the hospital with burn injuries.
@@valerierodger Thank you, the video states (5) people on the jet were fatalities, nothing about anyone on the ground.
Do controllers also work from home now?
What about those in car? R.I.P. Terrible crash!
Local news reports that the driver of the car also died. It seems 4 of the 5 persons on the Honda Jet died and that is how the death count is at 5 total.
This is like me being ATC, I can do it at this level all day!
Redrock50: "wE wOuLd LiKe To LaNd At ThE fIeLd PlEaSe"
Its crazy man i live 2 miles from here
N1312U.... "Um, we're not going to be taking off"
Tower.... "Okay, why?"
N1312U.... "There's a fire"
Tower.... "Oh, okay. Go ahead and taxi off the runway"
Tower.... "By the way, what did you mean about a fire?"
Pretty casual on both sides.
The five fatalities so far are *not* all five occupants of the aircraft.
Per local news outlet, four people on board died at the scene, one survived and is in the hospital with burn injuries. The driver of the vehicle is the fifth fatality.
News sources say five people died.
When in doubt, call it out.
Presumably no Engineered Material Arresting System at this field?
Nope
If you know where to look, a group of trees just left of the crash site are smaller, recovering from a DC4 crash in 1979.
Are you sure that there were 5 souls on board or were there 4 in the plane and 1 in the car? I'm pretty sure the impact to the car was not survivable
I wondering if it was the infamous brake set issue.
Wow! This is in my back yard!
I live about a 3/4 of a mile from the end of that runway. At least it didn't hit the Walmart parking lot across the street.
Absolutely, overrunning into Greenfield is bad enough, thank God it didn't have enough momentum or was slightly airborne because this could have been much worse.
Some early reports say the five fatalities were the pilot, three passengers on the plane and the driver of the car, but there are conflicting reports.
Everybody who ran with the story originally assumed that five passengers and five fatalities met everybody on the plane died, but up-to-date reports indicate that it was one of the occupants of the plane who is hospitalized.
The names of the four deceased from the plane have been released, one is a private pilot type rated for this jet.
“Sources” have indicated that it was another person who was the pilot, but that person doesn’t have any certificate in the FAA database
This is sad... RIP guys... =(
Lots of comments about the aircraft passengers but what about the vehicle it hit? Did it not have anyone in it?
Thanks!
So sad, RIP to pilot and passengers.
jesus, did the controller have his eyes closed ?
the earlier report I read said the pilot survived and 1 car driver was killed making a total of 5 dead, is this correct ?
Looks like another case of taking off with the brakes on.
As a non-aviation guy who watches aviation videos, I always assume that tower controllers are actually looking out the windows. In this case I'm expecting him to check the runway to see if the HondaJet departed, see the fire, and immediately coordinate the emergency response. Yet here he A) doesn't see the fire, B) doesn't respond when the pilot stopping on the runway tells him of the fire, and C) tells the helicopter (?) to go ahead and call for the emergency response.
Rest in peace to the deceased. Looking forward to learning what caused this incident.
How did the tower not see the plane not lift off and clear the runway?
I saw the distinctive plume of black smoke from Tempe Town Lake and knew an aircraft must have crashed.
What prevented the liftoff of the jet? Does anyone know? Did the pilot say he had an emergency? Why did that happen???????
Pilot decision to abort takeoff, and insufficient runway and airport space to effect a full stop.
So haunting hearing pilot called take off in normal voice...... But just moments later, they crashed.
Yes. 😳
falcon7 saving the day, or at least trying... everyone else just kind of spacing out, no sense of urgency until falcon7 appears on the frequency
I'm sorry about the fatalities with the accident but must make a comment about all the trash talk about the controllers. I'm an ex-controller, commercial instrument pilot and have an FAA A&P which means I know a little bit about almost everything aviation. Wait for the FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers. He did nothing to cause this accident. If you have never been in a control tower at a busy airport then you have no idea what they must do and watching departing fast movers (Jets) isn't one of them. Once the jet was rolling and the Cessna called a short time later it is not unusual that the controller would have anticipated the Jet would be past the end before the Cessna began his take off roll. This happens continually and if you are a pilot, take note. As a side note its's been a few years but I think the rule says "A departing aircraft must be past the end of the runway before a departing aircraft is cleared for take off" It DOESN'T say the departing aircraft must be observed to be pass the end by the controller!. Anticipating separation under normal operations happens all the time.
I have been searching whether this particular aircraft engines can be set on reverse, with this mounting atop the wings. This looks like a situation where reverse would have been helpful.
Lots of people quick to criticise the controller here. What if the HondaJet got airborne briefly which led the controller to look away and clear the next slower aircraft for take off?? It's a long runway so the Honda probably had time to abort if it had a problem on the roll? Flaps? Does the HJ have take off config warning? I assume it does
To me, that scenario makes the most sense. Hard to stop when your wheels aren't even touching the ground. Small aircraft so it should have been able to off the ground pretty quickly, so maybe the pilot thought he had more room to put it back down.
The abort apparently occurred late (3500 feet down the 5100-foot runway) and at high speed (over 120 MPH). The Honda Jet is not capable of stopping before the end of the runway with those parameters in play.
5100 ft is not a long runway for jet operations
@@Civ33especially for a jet that only has wheel brakes
@@Civ33 We operated fully loaded B-737-200's from 5,000-foot runways without any problems. The Honda Jet is a small light business jet designed for these runways.
One of my favorite planes @ FFZ what a terrible tragedy. Could always hear it coming and leaving.
I wonder what happened that they couldn't take off. Seems like they had plenty of runway.
First Honda jet crash ??
What about the car ??
You swapped the captions for the first two tower transmissions.
You're correct. Super curious because I have it edited correctly. Must have been a rendering glitch or something. Thanks and sorry.
Was this today? Very sad.
There’s security camera footage of the over run
So all 5 souls on board departed but no memtion of the souls in the car involved? Are they ok? Did they survive or are they departed aswell?
Initial information was incorrect probably because reporters heard five onboard and five fatalities and just assumed..
Driver of the car was killed. One of the passengers of the aircraft is in hospital with burns.
The transcript seems wrong. At 0:25 TWR says “cleared for takeoff” but you have “cleared to land”.
Judging from the car on Greenfield that the HondaJet ran over, I don't think the occupants of that car survived.
Brakes, engines, flap config, flight control malfunction? Any combination thereof.
Don't forget overweight, CG forward of forward CG limit, pressure port blocked for engine controls/readings, density altitude not calculated, refusal speed not calculated and, of course, pilot error. Pilot error would be a factor in all of the above.
@@markfrost8745 thats a good theory. Could not make it out of ground effect?
@@kellyem33 Not a theory. If the CG is too far forward of the forward CG limit, you won't have enough elevator authority to get to the angle of attack on the main wing to produce enough lift get airborne. Excess total weight will cause slow acceleration which will prevent getting airborne on short runways. High density altitude has the same effect. The two above scenarios is why it is very important to calculate refusal speed, the speed you can accelerate to and safely bring the aircraft to a stop before the end of the runway.
When I was in the Navy, I knew someone that was a part of an F-14 crew that did not calculate the refusal speed on a very hot and humid day on a short runway. The Tomcat was damaged trying to stop, ran off the end of the runway and had to be lifted onto a platform or trailer and brought back to AIMD (Aircraft Intermediate Maintenance Department).
@ my use of the word theory was not to impune your assessment, but rather to support it.
@@kellyem33 No offense taken, just explaining how it is a tool used everyday (or supposed to be) to ensure safe flight. Just like emergency procedures (EPs) we had to remember verbatim. Had to use them a few times.
Its been a while I got here 0.0
Rip To the Famillies :,(
Talk about a clueless controller. Holy cow. Funny how they are some of the most rude as well. Less time being rude, more time being competent please.
And yet another case of nobody calling MAYDAY RELAY
WHAT?!
@@RetreadPhotoanyone else on frequency seeing the crash should have called Mayday Relay for the tower to be aware of the life threatening emergency, instead of just saying “smoke, fire”.
Did they close the runway?
were the occupants of the car killed?
Sad. Single pilot has its risks