WOW! Thanks for watching! The oil used in this test was a 5W-30. Based on some of the comments, it would be fun to find a way to test this again at a colder temperature. Fortunately the viscosity of the oil does change dramatically room temperature and operating temperature - 173 cSt at 65F and 10 cSt at 220F. Unfortunately, the engine and dyno are in LA, so we can't get it too cold.
Ahhhh try rotella 15/40 diesel oil with that 51515 filter! Alot of our mini excavators use that filter. And I know when it's 0 degrees out, those engines crank pretty slow and they sound pretty noisy till they warm up. I bet it's bypassing till it circulates and warms and thins out some ??
Awesome video. Definitely need a thicker oil with a colder temp. Maybe you could simulate a cold 5w-30 start viscosity with straight 60 or 70 at a warmer temp since it’s impractical to cool the setup.
Well I'm not sure if you have some where you are but there's a SAE 40 and 50 monograde that i run on older cars if you want to try testing on them this way you'll be sure that the viscosity is remaining steady (kinda) but you won't have the 5 viscosity issue or at most run 2 stroke oil which is SAE 30, i don't think it'll kill the engine but it's decent for testing. I hope you keep up with your videos and educate some people that consider themselves knowledgeable although they are ignorant and killing their (and possibly other's) cars
I’ll say even as an airline pilot, starting a jet engine up north in -20C temps and watching the oil pressure gage spike on initial start up Iv always wondered what actual physics was happening inside the filter. Hands down best video on delta pressure. Good way to start my 5am with coffee! Thank you for spreading the educational content! Keep them coming!
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I worked on centrifugal air compressors for ~50 years. They all had a prelube pump to bring the oil pressure up to at least running pressure before run. They recommended a starting temp of 70F using 10 w oil. Normal run temp/pressure was 120F/20 psig. All had differential pressures gauge with 20 psi you could change the filter while running. Filters were 20 microns. Capacity of oil sumps ranged from 55 gals to 1,000 gals and recommended change at 2 years. I did see one at Anheuser Busch running at 70 psi differential on the paper without breaking the paper. On changing oil, it was usually still clear like the new oil, but the additives were worn. I would burn the drained oil sometimes in my diesel car. It would be possible to put a prelube pump on a car. Even to operate on some hybrids when the motor stops while the car is moving. Cost would be about $300.oo in parts and $500.oo in labor. J.C.Whitney sold one, but they've been out of business for 25 years. My guess an engine would go double the normal.
why no auxiliary heat ? A small heater in the oil reserve would greatly increase the startup performance in those extreme temps. Engine orifices(openings) and the oil grade would tested or out of range at those temperatures. Simply the viscosty of the oil would be much, much higher(thick and slow to pump).
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@@whatsup3270 Yes, that would help, but the ones you put in the dipstick got too hot and burned oil on the dipstick. There are heaters built for industry that do NOT burn on the elements. There's so much that can be done to make good oil even better. I use a 0-40 multi viscosity oil, usually Mobil 1, but I understand Red Line makes the best motor oil but twice the price.
@@whatsup3270 oil reservoir and battery warmer, frequent specified filter and oil changes at or before specified periods are the key for long-life, not additional additives and other aftermarket stuff.
I've personally seen 757s with Rolls-Royce RB-211 engines max out oil pressure at 200psi. That's as high as the system will display. We do not touch the throttles until oil temp is within range. Aircraft engine oil is way thinner than automotive oil. Most modern electronically controlled jet engines will indicate an oil filter bypass, and many also have debris monitoring systems that actually count magnetic particles as they pass into the oil reservoir. Generally, you're allowed one reset of the system before you have to remove and inspect the filter and magnetic chip detectors for debris.
I’ve yelled at my screen watching those oil filter reviews and thinking these guys have no idea how a filter really works. Saying this filter is junk that is one is great. They have no ideaThank you for educating these people.
Everyone ripping on frams, they need to go find that fram vs new Harley oem vs old Harley oem filter video. Not all the frams are bad, but they do appear to try and cut costs on their high volume selling filters. That Harley fram was superior to the new OEM filter. The old nos 90s Harley filter and the fram filter were about equal. I'll give any filter a try ,after it's been dissected to see it's quality.
@@georgeburns7251 Good point. The trapped particles in all cases are probably too small to see. OTOH, my favourite motorcycle mechanic advocated cutting every used filter open to check for large particles indicating impending doom for the engine (nothing to do with comparisons).
Thank you, I've been trying to show people this was a myth for years... Oh the filter isn't active until the oil is warm, and the filter only filters at hot idle etc. I would just shake my head. But now you have proved it and shown it by measuring it. Thanks guys!
This is the best explanation of a bypass that I have watched. I live in New Hampshire and drive a 2016 F150 with a 5.0 engine. Tomorrow morning the temperature will be close to zero. How does this environment affect the differential pressure? Is there a difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 when cold? My daily practice is to start my engine and let it idle until the RPM drops and go easy on the accelerator for the first three to five miles. I run Valvoline High Mileage Full Synthetic Oil and a Purolator Boss oil filter. Oil changes have been done at 5K or less since new. Thanks in advance to anyone who comments.
@@hotrodray6802 I lived in Fairbanks, AK, for 3.5 years where temps are sub-zero for months. Used Mobil 1 synthetic in everything, Yamaha 3-wheeler included. Had block and battery heaters and never has any issues starting either car. I'd even pull crank the 3-wheeler and ride at 20-25 below, although I did have to heat the carb to get it to fire.
Not any meaningful difference between 5w20 and 5w30 at that temperature, for starting purposes. 0w30 would be a good choice if you expect cold temperatures throughout the oil interval. Some oil companies are claiming 0w20 can replace 5w20 as well, better cold weather performance, and the same viscosity at temperature.
Haha, for a good time install a mechanical oil pressure gauge ,and cringe for the 5-15 seconds it takes for the gauge to move on a cold start 😂 All I can say is probably thank God for boundary lubrication!
Back when auto parts stores had book to look up the filter that you would need for your car, I noticed that the back of that catalog had a ton of information on oil filters. The bases, whether the filter had a bypass built into it, the bypass pressure, and if you could figure out which base your filter had you could pick a filter that would give you more filter area but still fit on the engine. The 2.2l Chrysler engine had a horizontal mount and a bigger filter would fit. That allowed me to increase the oil capacity slightly without overfilling the sump. That was important for a road race engine. Good stuff. Thanks!
Try this bypass test with truly COLD oil, not room temp oil. It's very much more likely to bypass. I had a rig on one of my trucks to measure DeltaP, which I was able to datalog, and experimented with different viscosities and oil filter types, std cellulose and synthetic media (which flow a little better), and temps down to around 0F. My test engine was a 5.4L Ford Triton. When the oil ws COLD, using the recommended visc (5W20), it would bypass only if I engaged in spirited driving before the oil had warmed up (I could measure bulk oil temp). When I bumped up to 5W30 grade and especially 10W30 , it was much more prone to cold bypass. Even when partially warm (100-150F), it might bypass at high revs. When I used 10W40, it was bypass city and the oil needed to be roasting hot to avoid reaching the filter's rated bypass differential pressure in the higher rpm ranges. I saw differneces between synthetic and conventional oil, but it was not a large as expected... with new oil at least. I also saw that a standard cellulose filter restricted flow noticably more than the synthetic media filters I used. Since the synthetic filters generally are more efficient filters, I now see them as a win-win choice. After fooling around for a few years, I started advising people to go easy with an engine until it was fully warm. In the two engines I tested extensively, the Triton and a 6.9L IH diesel, it could take 15-20 miles of driving (less on the diesel since it had a oil-to-coolant oil cooler) to get the oil up to a stabilized temp. In both engines, only on particularly high loads or ambient temps, did the oil actually reach 100C (the viscosity grade temp), so if any engine had similar EOTs, using too high a visc oil might put you into bypss more often... as in spirited driving.
Adding to your point. Cellulose media has large fiber diameters as compared to many synthetic fibers. Smaller fiber diameters mean you can create more void volume (more pores) for the same given media volume. More void volume allows me as a filter designer to increase the efficiency and decrease the differential pressure. Filters change dP when you change flow rate, fluid viscosity or contamination. If the flow rate doubles the media contribution to dP will also double. If the viscosity doubles, the media contribution to dP will also double. This linear relationship is due to the Reynolds's number being very low for the media. Large media area (3 ft^2) means the media velocity is low and the viscosity is high. In the aerospace world, we test filters at -65f where the fluid viscosity is greater than 35,000 cP and a brand new filter will be in bypass. If the filter is in bypass, that does not mean the filter is not flowing oil, the bypass valve is bleeding off excess pressure from the filter. I appreciate your field insights in the comments.
@@NicholasBrownHow does large media increase viscosity and why not say bypass vale allows a fluid path in parallel to the filter, not sure the purpose of reitterating what we all presumably understand. The original intent of LS's video was if the filter is bypassing, yes? I'll have to watch it again but surely a 15w40 oil is more likely to bypass than a 0w20, that's the next aspect to understand.
THat is a great tutorial and explanation of oil pressure. I would hope the bypass valve would not open unless there was an extreme condition present, like extreme cold (I mean -20) or a clogged filter. People often forget about the filter when it is just as important as the oil itself. There is a channel named the "whip city wrencher" that cuts open and inspects oil filters. I have learned more about oil filter quality and contruction than I ever thought I would.
@@hotrodray6802I would say yes. But if you saw how some of these filters were made, you really wouldn’t wanna put them on your car. Gaps in the bypass valve, glue slapped all over the place. Highly uneven pleats. Some brands are not well made
@@jamescaron6465heh see my comment in the above thread about that fram vs OEM Harley new filter vs the nos 90s Harley filter. Fram is superior over the new OEM filter every day of the week.
@@MrTheHillfolknot all OE filters are created equal that’s for sure. I would use motorcraft and ACDelco but not sone others. After seeing how some of the filters had tons of excess glue all over the place, I wanna see one open before I’ll use it it’s like they use tons of automation but no QC.
@jamescaron6465 yeah man , definitely agree. I drive mostly vws ,I try and stick with Mann or Bosch or a decent OEM supplier. Those old idi OEM VW filters have like a 45psi bypass spring ,no aftermarket filter I've ever seen even comes close.
Great video. (-30F) Filter Testing is what I have always wondered about. The filter sits out in the cold, even when a person uses an engine block heater. As a canadian on the prairies, -30 happens probably 10 days a year. -20 probably 20 or 30 days a year.
At 73 years old I remember cars and trucks with no oil filters and just used rod cap cups to splash oil to the cams and cylinders as well as a distributors driven oil pump , living in the Yukon in the 60's as a mechanic we could use a 4 inch stove pipe to heat up the oil pan , I have seen a lot of main and rod bearings gone trying to move a 300 Cummins before the oil was warm , yes the gauge showed high oil pressure but the tar oil was no go no flow . on the old ford 352 360 and 390s it would break the oil pump drive shaft to the oil pump ....whoop's , if you brock down on the highway we would cover the car or big truck with a parachute and use propane bottles to heat it up over night , the only problem was at 50c- we would use an other propane torch to keep the other bottle of propane to not freeze and we would switch tanks every 2 hours ,hey ask me how I know this 😂🤣😅 🥶😰
When I was a kid, mom had her 81 rabbit diesel. We got a cold snap and Dad didn't change out the 20-50 stuff. She fires it up, has it running in the driveway for about 3 minutes to help get it a little bit warm and takes off. I see her turn around down the road about 30 seconds later and comes back, The oil light is flashing. She shut it off immediately. I was like 13, but I pulled the dipstick and it was like string. So dad pulled the dream plug, and it probably took it 25 minutes to drain by itself at an ambient temp of like 15f. Anyways, he didn't change the filter right there because she had to go to work, he dumped in some 10-30 and started it up and let it idle for a few minutes, took it up the road and came back and the oil light was not on, handed it to Mom and off she went to work. Crazy how much that oil was like lukewarm tar when it flowed out of the pan 😂 That car lasted her until I got it in 91 and hammered it for 2yrs. Had like 200k but was severely rusty and became undrivable for safety's sake.
I grew up in a community right at the base of a notoriously dangerous steep mountain road in southwestern PA, there's a runaway truck road coming down it and flashing warning lights on signs coming up the back side of it, a mandatory pull over brake check for tractor trailers at the top before they start their descent and another one half way down with trucks being limited to 10 MPH coming down it, so yea, it's a steep one. When I was a kid I remember my grandfather telling me about an early OHV straight 6 engine in some vehicles that had cups on the timing chain that would dip into the oil in the pan and toss it into a trough at the top when they flipped around, that trough acted like a gutter that took the oil down the length of the head dripping it on all the components along the way that needed it. He said you could spot those models of vehicles that had that engine because they'd go backwards up the mountain, reason being is if their oil was a little low and they went up forward the oil in the pan would slosh to the rear and those cups in the timing chain wouldn't pick up oil resulting in the top end being oil starved and burning up.
Great one. People really don‘t know that. Experts arguing about the valves. When your engine explodes it does it with or without the valve, it‘d only delay the damage for an instant. Thus as a frequent filter/oil changer, there‘s no need for a valve, but it won‘t hurt either to have that „safety“ especially during the first work-in periods of an engine.
Yeah but the absolute best thing to do after changing oil if you have an automatic is press the brake pedal down, press the gas pedal down all the way. Hit the start button to crank it over and over quite a few times until you see oil pressure register on your guage and thats the safest way.
@@deanwinchester119 Okay . . . explain what difference it makes if you're just "cranking" the engine or starting it. The oil pump is mechanically driven the same either way. Whether or not the cylinders are firing or not have nothing to do with the oil flow.
Someone commented on one of my videos when I did a video cutting open a filter after a 10k mile service. Filter wasn't clogged. The person insisted that it went into bypass when it started and then again at around 5k miles. That the filter can't handle anything over 5k miles. I was like thats totally incorrect my dude. Thanks for watching though. You just verified it for me and I hope he sees this video.
Fascinating video! I have forever thought that the oil filter bypass mode was always a normal mode on really cold starts until the oil thins out a bit. Thanks guys!
I’ve been a car guy for years, WTI 1981. In 2005 I started a job that really open my eyes to hydraulics, the engines oiling system. Same thing only different. Our oiling system did all our work, just like a backhoe etc. I have to say, you really start to understand about what fluids happens to fluids under all these different conditions. The need for fluid testing, proper filtration. Our filters on the pressure side were 10 micron, return side 25 micron.
Every Subaru person that think they need a 20+ psi bypass filter needs to watch this video. I’ve tried explaining this throughout the years and people just can’t get it through their heads. I run Fram Endurance or Ultra on our Subaru with an 11-17psi relief and I have zero worries it’ll go into bypass because they have proven to have very little pressure differential across the media.
Even if you don't completely prefill a canister oil filter with oil, at least getting the filter media wet and primed helps a lot to get that oil flowing faster, that's how I look at it. When a filter is new and dry and you crank the engine like that the oil flow has to work a little harder to wet and prime the media.
Actually I have seen pumps torn up and cause low hot idle oil pressure. Replace the pump and oil pressure returns to normal at hot idle. Every time I have done this the engine looks pretty clean inside but when I ask the customer if any work was done on the engine prior to the low idle oil pressure the awnser was yes how did you know. I assume the oil was contaminated and tore up the pump but the filter stopped debris from killing the bearings.
Most of the pickups for the oil pumps have a screen to strain out the gross bits and in some engines the pickup is a fraction of an inch above the bottom of the pan where the pipe connecting the pickup goes up to feed the pump there might be an O ring seal,if that seal leaks (sucks air) might be a disaster for the engine.
Measuring the pressure differential and the bypass pressure caught my attention. I am a swimming pool technician. Residential pool filters need to be cleaned when the pressure rises 8lbs from the starting pressure. Commercial pools have a pressure gauge installed on the inlet and outlet side of the filter. Commercial filters are cleaned based on the pressure differential between inlet and outlet pressure.
The statement about the bypass valve never opening on a cold start needs context. A +68F startup is a cold start in relation to engine operating temperature, but I live in Canada and a "cold" start is more like -5F and colder. Even if the engine is plugged in, the oil in the pan is not +68F. What weight was the oil you tested with? Logically, heavier oils will carry a larger delta. Great video by the way!!!
While it might not have opened much, I believe it probably did open. Because you didn't see a delta higher than ~7psi you state that it didn't open, but that just feels like you guys are trusting the 8-11psi delta rating of the bypass without actually testing it. That bypass easily could have partially opened at that pressure delta, but also you have the graph setup to show max values of each individual curve (which even that was 7.4 psi delta), when the necessary data to compare is max delta between the curves at any point in time, which by judging looking at the graph at 9:54 appears to be closer to 8, which would be right in spec with that bypass. When the bypass opens it is pushing against a spring which would provide a generally linear force until it's fully compressed, allowing a little oil through upon a minimum delta of pressure, and increasingly more oil as the delta increases. I state this because I don't think there would be a significant bend in the curve when the bypass "opens", it being more gradual but not allowing a large pressure differential, which we did never get. I believe if you were to see a significant change in curve it would only be at the point that the filter media AND bypass become too restrictive on the oil flow, basically seeing the bypass' spring reach max compression. All that to say, it has yet to be seen with your testing what pressure it actually starts letting oil through the bypass (even if a relatively small amount). If the bypass really didn't open on this first round of tests, then a no bypass version with the same filter media should look the exact same on the graph. I would like to see the same test with two filters overlayed on the same graph, of similar construction but with one of them having a bypass valve and the other without. (Probably a custom filter housing so you can put in the exact same filter media, allowing for the only real variable to be the bypass.) I think that's when the data would really show if the bypass opened or not, and when real conclusions could be drawn from the testing. I was surprised to see that the pressure differential went up with warmer oil, very interesting. I hope to see a follow up at some point testing my hypothesis since you guys have most everything setup to do it! Love the content, keep it up
They also didn't compare at same engine speed, cold to warm. Their test was apples to oranges. Not saying their conclusions are wrong, just that they didn't control all variables.
Great work. Please keep making videos. This is a treasue we won't find anywhere else . Also, can you makena video regarding what filter parameters or specifications we should look for when buying aftermarket filters. I don't usually stick to the OEM filter
How much does viscosity affect the "Delta"? Particularly on a cold soak start? How much difference is there between 5w-20 and 20w-50 at say 20 degrees Fahrenheit?
I get what you are saying, but it's cold oil on both sides of the filter media so they cancel out. That's my take. If the oil was warm on one side I think it would be a different story. I would love to see your scenario tested though.
@@glennmckinley3058 Glenn, consider this. Take some honey, put it in the fridge. See how it flows through a coffee filter. Now heat it up and see how it flows. Cold and thick is going to be harder to push through media, yeah?
@@bobclarke5913 pretty hard to argue with that. Makes me think that the more square inches of filler media the better for cold climates. Let’s test that too . Big vs little in the cold.
Always informative and appreciated vids. The vids with Don are great love how you guys bounce facts off each other. Didn't realize the bypass valve psi was only an issue in extreme circumstances. Even though I believe the rating for my engine is the same in the AC/Delco and the Wix. From my understanding the Wix is a better built oil filter and no reason not to make the switch.
This was very informative. I've always read and heard that on startup the bypass valve is open allowing unfiltered oil to flow through your engine. This video pieces that to be a myth! Thank You 😁
I think it isn't a myth of you're running very viscous oil because the thicker the oil the slower it'll pass through the filter which will cause greater pressure before the filter (simple logical assumptions)
Damn good episode. I learned something today about understanding the Delta vs thinking the bypass was a psi reading
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DpPSI/PSIG (gauge)PSIA (absolute). There are Dp gauges, usually with 2 connections unless one side reads atmosphere. Atmosphere is ~14.7 PSIG. A bit confusing as "...A..." absolute & atmosphere both start with '...A..."
Certainly some amazing content and some very useful information. One topic this been brewing for quite a while that I would like to see addressed is that of the oil separator/catch can. Tons of thoughts, both pros and cons, but with the newer and smaller direct injection engines, especially those like the Ford F150 with the hybrid system we seem to be getting a lot more cooling cycles into the engine. This in my mind raises the condensation in oil, at least in the northern states. Could you, or would you, address the ideology Of an oil separator? Also would be nice to see pros and cons on both sides of the fence. Appreciate it.
That was a great video However, wish you would talk about number of holes on the filter's housing surface For example, some filters have 4 holes, while some other I've seen 6 or 8 holes. Which one is/could be better?
The study validated how the valve functions with a new filter. I would suggest two additional studies that are not related to the oil temp at start up. 1. Generate data on a new oil filter then install the oil filter on a low milage vehicle as part of an oil change. After 3K put the oil filter back on the mule with fresh oil and repeat the study. Repeat the study again with a high milage vehicle.
I’m curious how much material will an oil filter trap before it gets to the point that it goes into bypass. I also think it would be interesting to see how much filtering capacity is still available when the filter is changed according to the recommended change intervals. Similar to the oil still having the ability to do its job even when the oil life indicator reached 0% in the rental car.
I hope you guys read these comments. I have a question. I've heard it's best to change the filter every second oil change. The reasoning is that as the filter picks up more material it actually filters better. Which sort of makes sense. As the filter picks up dirt, the 'holes' get filled up, and make the passages for more oil smaller, picking up smaller dirt.... Please either make a video on this, or explain if what I've heard is right or wrong.
Couple thoughts to contribute. The bypass valve is spring-loaded so just because it may 'bypass' does not mean it bypasses all the oil flow. The filter media will continue to flow oil the entire time, in concert with any bypass that occurs. Also, when bypassing due to a 'clogged filter' media, the media still flows oil (just less flow) and likely does so with an even smaller size (micron) filtering. Partially clogged filters of all conventional types are better at removing smaller-than-nominal debris, which is a tradeoff for not flowing as much.
did you do a video on the e85 alcohol filters, supposably the paper gaskets break down on e85 /alcohol engines with the contaminations of fuel in the oil
I use a Full synthetic oil filter and there's a difference to the filter medium used and the construction of materials used in the manufacturing of that oil filter Ryco 663st is the part number for a Chevy L77 V8 engine and i change the oil in my car every 5,000 to 7,000Km all the time and now using DEXOS 1 gen 3 licenced oil product. Keep up the great work Lake and team.🦘🦘👍👍
Thanks Lake, what is the best filter to use with synthetic oil. What are the differences between regular, and extended drain? (BTW I don’t extend my drains, but was asked by my brother-in-law). Keep up the good information.
Interesting video and I don't doubt your results but I would suggest the result doesn't speak for all engine/oil/filter combinations. I have seen a similar test done on a different motor (Holden) with a different style of filter (older paper element Vs enhanced cellulose) and different oil grade with the internal engine oil bypass blocked forcing all oil through the filter and it showed a cold oil delta of about 20psi across the filter. I am happy to see modern oils and filters certainly flow better cold than the stuff we ran 5-10 years ago. Sadly, down under, Wix filters are not commonly stocked on automotive shelves and it's more of a exotic item. I run Ryco filters and have only recently made the switch to their cellulose range. We always pre-fill oil filters.
The pre filing an oil filter debate exists for those that need to take a contrarian view to seem intelligent or argue for social interaction. The real question is do you pre-fill an upside down filter…
I guess my question is, if pre filling the oil filter is so crucial, then why are so many makes and models of cars having oil filters that screw in on the side of the engine, or on the top? Shouldn't all engines have the oil filter on the bottom (in other words, facing up)? That just doesn't make sense to me.
Block oil resistance 'produces' a pressure of x. Pressure required to push oil through the filter AND the block will be pressure y (produced by the oil pump). The bypass will only open if the difference in those pressures is more than the stated bypass pressure. ie, if the push required to push the oil through the filter (assuming no block behind it) is higher than the bypass pressure. Even if the block resistance required 10,000 psi (assuming the pump could produce that!) the bypass would still not open unless the filter was blocked so much as to require 10,010psi.
There is usually another bypass valve somewhere set to a high pressure that "dumps" oil back to the sump without the oil going through the engine lube system. I think usually not part of the oil filter assembly.
I think what gets people hung up is the idea the cold oil has lower delta P than hot oil does. But what they’re forgetting is that the FLOW when cold is much, much less. Higher oil pressure means more “restriction” to oil flow. Total flow in the oil pump loop is much less when cold. This is why your filter has higher delta P warm than it does cold-- because the lower viscosity of warm oil is drastically increasing flow rates in the system (especially through the filter).
The total pressure inside the can relative to atmospheric pressure outside the can might be very high while the ^ across the media might be low due to low flow
@Lake Can you please make a video if Very Fine Bypass Filters are worth it,? You said that the filter only filters out particles over 25 microns in size. There are aftermarket filters who are build in parallel to the main filter and they filter at around 1 micron (advertised). I think the main question regarding this topic is: how thick is the oil film under load, for example between cam and lifter? That would give a rough estimation of how big particles can be without (!) being abrasive, at least in my opinion. Having particles 25 microns of size in my oil sounds scary! It's like lapping paste... Great content, as always! Marlon
They incorrectly stated that particles smaller than 25 microns will not hurt anything. Clearances inside an engine run between 1 - 5 microns. There are SAE articles on the benefits of bypass filters, and that most wear occurs between 5 - 15 microns. I've posted oil lab results of my 2 micron bypass on FB forums.
I was also wondering about testing bypass filters. I put one on the crate engine in the Caprice wagon and wondered if it was worthwhile since the old engine lasted nearly 200,000 miles with the previous owner's sketchy maintenance schedule.
@oldcoot3459 you can do the test yourself. Install a bypass, and test oil using a particle count lab test. I've done this for years. Just did the same last week. The oil is cleaner than when it was new.
I'm getting more and more a complete picture! 😃👍 I didn't know anything about the small Delta in oil pressure. I already got a good understanding of the flow by a video of Garage 54, who made a transparent oil-filter. The different qualities of oil-filters (incl. microscopic images of the filter media) are well shown in the videos of City Whip Wrencher.
I remember my dad in the Canadian prairies draining his hot oil and putting it in a steel bucket on the wood stove all night then pour it in the cold engine the next morning and then wait till the frost melted off the out side of the engine block and then start it and drive away to work, and then at work start it up at lunch time again .
Most people simply cannot think! You want the MOST area in order to have the best flow and space for particles so it takes longer to clog and activate the bypass valve! Anti-drain valve is only needed for applications where the filter is sideways or upside down so oil stays inside the filter.
This is great info but a huge miss is not talking about cartridge oil filters. I've looked and looked for information on cartridge style oil filters with little to no luck. Since alot (probably majority of newer vehicles are cartridge style I would absolutely love a video going over the differences as I'm sure there are some of not many
Nice! I cannot wait for the next video. I’m just learning and going to attempt my own oil change soon. So for someone that drives 32k miles a year would you recommend Supertech or something premium?
I’m not sure if you have touched base on this yet. But I’m curious to know what’s your opinion on oil bypass filters? Do you think they actually catch particles down to 3 micron? And do you need to catch particles that small?
I like bypass filtering, 2 filters in one. A very fine filter and a courser filter in parallel. Get the really fine stuff out over time. Still allow enough flow at acceptable pressures. Likely still need a full bypass in very cold weather at startup. We get -20 to -40F weather for a few days each year. For engine oil.
Hello Lake, really Great video from you guys always very informative. So Old School guys that block the bypass on SBC & BBC is neither right or wrong so long as you do regular oil & filter changes???
Years ago after studying oil filters construction, I started using only filters that had the bypass valve at the upper end by where it threads on. My thinking was that when it was -10 degrees Outside and I start up and start driving if the bypass was opening because of the thick oil that it would not draw from the bottom of the filter can where any sediment or dirt would have settled from the outer filter element and go straight to the crankshaft bearings. I would like to see the same test done at real cold temps to see if or how long it stays open.
Loved the video, especially the explanation of the delta pressure for the bypass valve. One question. I have already seen a lot of discussion re. this video on an automotive lubrication discussion board, and Bob's friends would love to see this test run with actual cold weather conditions, and initial startup. Any chance you could do that? I for one would also love to see that. Put this Delta P question to rest.
@@themotoroilgeek Any way to put the oil and filter in a cold chamber, then fill the engine and install filter immediately before performing the test? Not ideal, but it should validate what you saw, in regards to lower delta P on a cold engine, than a warmed up engine.
How well do you think it's going to flow through the engine at that temp? This is a balance of restrictions, which is more restrictive, the filter or the engine. The relationship between engine and filter should be fairly independent of oil temp (viscosity). It changes when the filter loads or as the engine wears out (clearances become larger).
I cringe every time a GM guy deletes the filter bypass on a SBC/BBC. There's no benefit to doing that. They're just removing their only failsafe in the event of a filter clog or failure.
WOW! Thanks for watching! The oil used in this test was a 5W-30. Based on some of the comments, it would be fun to find a way to test this again at a colder temperature. Fortunately the viscosity of the oil does change dramatically room temperature and operating temperature - 173 cSt at 65F and 10 cSt at 220F. Unfortunately, the engine and dyno are in LA, so we can't get it too cold.
Aw darn, can't do a collaboration with Garage 54 when it's 30 below!
Ahhhh try rotella 15/40 diesel oil with that 51515 filter! Alot of our mini excavators use that filter. And I know when it's 0 degrees out, those engines crank pretty slow and they sound pretty noisy till they warm up. I bet it's bypassing till it circulates and warms and thins out some ??
Awesome video. Definitely need a thicker oil with a colder temp. Maybe you could simulate a cold 5w-30 start viscosity with straight 60 or 70 at a warmer temp since it’s impractical to cool the setup.
Well I'm not sure if you have some where you are but there's a SAE 40 and 50 monograde that i run on older cars if you want to try testing on them this way you'll be sure that the viscosity is remaining steady (kinda) but you won't have the 5 viscosity issue or at most run 2 stroke oil which is SAE 30, i don't think it'll kill the engine but it's decent for testing. I hope you keep up with your videos and educate some people that consider themselves knowledgeable although they are ignorant and killing their (and possibly other's) cars
Pack the oil pan and tubing in ice, stub under full of ice and salt will cool it like when ice cream is made.
I’ll say even as an airline pilot, starting a jet engine up north in -20C temps and watching the oil pressure gage spike on initial start up Iv always wondered what actual physics was happening inside the filter. Hands down best video on delta pressure. Good way to start my 5am with coffee! Thank you for spreading the educational content! Keep them coming!
I worked on centrifugal air compressors for ~50 years. They all had a prelube pump to bring the oil pressure up to at least running pressure before run. They recommended a starting temp of 70F using 10 w oil. Normal run temp/pressure was 120F/20 psig. All had differential pressures gauge with 20 psi you could change the filter while running. Filters were 20 microns. Capacity of oil sumps ranged from 55 gals to 1,000 gals and recommended change at 2 years. I did see one at Anheuser Busch running at 70 psi differential on the paper without breaking the paper. On changing oil, it was usually still clear like the new oil, but the additives were worn. I would burn the drained oil sometimes in my diesel car.
It would be possible to put a prelube pump on a car. Even to operate on some hybrids when the motor stops while the car is moving. Cost would be about $300.oo in parts and $500.oo in labor. J.C.Whitney sold one, but they've been out of business for 25 years. My guess an engine would go double the normal.
why no auxiliary heat ? A small heater in the oil reserve would greatly increase the startup performance in those extreme temps. Engine orifices(openings) and the oil grade would tested or out of range at those temperatures. Simply the viscosty of the oil would be much, much higher(thick and slow to pump).
@@whatsup3270 Yes, that would help, but the ones you put in the dipstick got too hot and burned oil on the dipstick. There are heaters built for industry that do NOT burn on the elements. There's so much that can be done to make good oil even better. I use a 0-40 multi viscosity oil, usually Mobil 1, but I understand Red Line makes the best motor oil but twice the price.
@@whatsup3270 oil reservoir and battery warmer, frequent specified filter and oil changes at or before specified periods are the key for long-life, not additional additives and other aftermarket stuff.
I've personally seen 757s with Rolls-Royce RB-211 engines max out oil pressure at 200psi. That's as high as the system will display. We do not touch the throttles until oil temp is within range. Aircraft engine oil is way thinner than automotive oil. Most modern electronically controlled jet engines will indicate an oil filter bypass, and many also have debris monitoring systems that actually count magnetic particles as they pass into the oil reservoir. Generally, you're allowed one reset of the system before you have to remove and inspect the filter and magnetic chip detectors for debris.
This channel tells you, then shows you, with actual data, that you can actually understand! 👍🏻
Thanks! That’s our mission!
This is the most informative channel for all things engine oil related. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you!
I’ve yelled at my screen watching those oil filter reviews and thinking these guys have no idea how a filter really works. Saying this filter is junk that is one is great. They have no ideaThank you for educating these people.
I’m glad we could help!
Everyone ripping on frams, they need to go find that fram vs new Harley oem vs old Harley oem filter video.
Not all the frams are bad, but they do appear to try and cut costs on their high volume selling filters.
That Harley fram was superior to the new OEM filter.
The old nos 90s Harley filter and the fram filter were about equal.
I'll give any filter a try ,after it's been dissected to see it's quality.
I don’t watch the idiots that rate filters by cutting them open and looking at the filter medium and saying this one looks better. They are idiots.
@@georgeburns7251 Good point. The trapped particles in all cases are probably too small to see. OTOH, my favourite motorcycle mechanic advocated cutting every used filter open to check for large particles indicating impending doom for the engine (nothing to do with comparisons).
Thank you, I've been trying to show people this was a myth for years... Oh the filter isn't active until the oil is warm, and the filter only filters at hot idle etc. I would just shake my head. But now you have proved it and shown it by measuring it. Thanks guys!
What wild myths...
I’m glad we could help!
@@volvo09 That's what I'd like to know.
This is the best explanation of a bypass that I have watched. I live in New Hampshire and drive a 2016 F150 with a 5.0 engine. Tomorrow morning the temperature will be close to zero. How does this environment affect the differential pressure? Is there a difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 when cold? My daily practice is to start my engine and let it idle until the RPM drops and go easy on the accelerator for the first three to five miles. I run Valvoline High Mileage Full Synthetic Oil and a Purolator Boss oil filter. Oil changes have been done at 5K or less since new. Thanks in advance to anyone who comments.
Ditto. Mobil 1 oil and filter here
@@hotrodray6802 I lived in Fairbanks, AK, for 3.5 years where temps are sub-zero for months. Used Mobil 1 synthetic in everything, Yamaha 3-wheeler included. Had block and battery heaters and never has any issues starting either car. I'd even pull crank the 3-wheeler and ride at 20-25 below, although I did have to heat the carb to get it to fire.
Your start up practice is spot on. The engine only needs to idle for about a minute in cold weather before you begin driving gently.
Not any meaningful difference between 5w20 and 5w30 at that temperature, for starting purposes. 0w30 would be a good choice if you expect cold temperatures throughout the oil interval.
Some oil companies are claiming 0w20 can replace 5w20 as well, better cold weather performance, and the same viscosity at temperature.
Haha, for a good time install a mechanical oil pressure gauge ,and cringe for the 5-15 seconds it takes for the gauge to move on a cold start 😂
All I can say is probably thank God for boundary lubrication!
Back when auto parts stores had book to look up the filter that you would need for your car, I noticed that the back of that catalog had a ton of information on oil filters. The bases, whether the filter had a bypass built into it, the bypass pressure, and if you could figure out which base your filter had you could pick a filter that would give you more filter area but still fit on the engine. The 2.2l Chrysler engine had a horizontal mount and a bigger filter would fit. That allowed me to increase the oil capacity slightly without overfilling the sump. That was important for a road race engine. Good stuff. Thanks!
Try this bypass test with truly COLD oil, not room temp oil. It's very much more likely to bypass. I had a rig on one of my trucks to measure DeltaP, which I was able to datalog, and experimented with different viscosities and oil filter types, std cellulose and synthetic media (which flow a little better), and temps down to around 0F. My test engine was a 5.4L Ford Triton. When the oil ws COLD, using the recommended visc (5W20), it would bypass only if I engaged in spirited driving before the oil had warmed up (I could measure bulk oil temp). When I bumped up to 5W30 grade and especially 10W30 , it was much more prone to cold bypass. Even when partially warm (100-150F), it might bypass at high revs. When I used 10W40, it was bypass city and the oil needed to be roasting hot to avoid reaching the filter's rated bypass differential pressure in the higher rpm ranges. I saw differneces between synthetic and conventional oil, but it was not a large as expected... with new oil at least. I also saw that a standard cellulose filter restricted flow noticably more than the synthetic media filters I used. Since the synthetic filters generally are more efficient filters, I now see them as a win-win choice. After fooling around for a few years, I started advising people to go easy with an engine until it was fully warm. In the two engines I tested extensively, the Triton and a 6.9L IH diesel, it could take 15-20 miles of driving (less on the diesel since it had a oil-to-coolant oil cooler) to get the oil up to a stabilized temp. In both engines, only on particularly high loads or ambient temps, did the oil actually reach 100C (the viscosity grade temp), so if any engine had similar EOTs, using too high a visc oil might put you into bypss more often... as in spirited driving.
This needs pinned!
Adding to your point. Cellulose media has large fiber diameters as compared to many synthetic fibers. Smaller fiber diameters mean you can create more void volume (more pores) for the same given media volume. More void volume allows me as a filter designer to increase the efficiency and decrease the differential pressure. Filters change dP when you change flow rate, fluid viscosity or contamination. If the flow rate doubles the media contribution to dP will also double. If the viscosity doubles, the media contribution to dP will also double. This linear relationship is due to the Reynolds's number being very low for the media. Large media area (3 ft^2) means the media velocity is low and the viscosity is high. In the aerospace world, we test filters at -65f where the fluid viscosity is greater than 35,000 cP and a brand new filter will be in bypass. If the filter is in bypass, that does not mean the filter is not flowing oil, the bypass valve is bleeding off excess pressure from the filter. I appreciate your field insights in the comments.
This says a lot about using the proper oil for the engine and environment. Thanks for your comment
@@NicholasBrownHow does large media increase viscosity and why not say bypass vale allows a fluid path in parallel to the filter, not sure the purpose of reitterating what we all presumably understand.
The original intent of LS's video was if the filter is bypassing, yes? I'll have to watch it again but surely a 15w40 oil is more likely to bypass than a 0w20, that's the next aspect to understand.
Wasn’t the delta less the lower the temp of oil was?
THat is a great tutorial and explanation of oil pressure. I would hope the bypass valve would not open unless there was an extreme condition present, like extreme cold (I mean -20) or a clogged filter. People often forget about the filter when it is just as important as the oil itself. There is a channel named the "whip city wrencher" that cuts open and inspects oil filters. I have learned more about oil filter quality and contruction than I ever thought I would.
Does it really matter if they meet car mfg specs??
@@hotrodray6802I would say yes. But if you saw how some of these filters were made, you really wouldn’t wanna put them on your car. Gaps in the bypass valve, glue slapped all over the place. Highly uneven pleats. Some brands are not well made
@@jamescaron6465heh see my comment in the above thread about that fram vs OEM Harley new filter vs the nos 90s Harley filter.
Fram is superior over the new OEM filter every day of the week.
@@MrTheHillfolknot all OE filters are created equal that’s for sure. I would use motorcraft and ACDelco but not sone others. After seeing how some of the filters had tons of excess glue all over the place, I wanna see one open before I’ll use it it’s like they use tons of automation but no QC.
@jamescaron6465 yeah man , definitely agree.
I drive mostly vws ,I try and stick with Mann or Bosch or a decent OEM supplier.
Those old idi OEM VW filters have like a 45psi bypass spring ,no aftermarket filter I've ever seen even comes close.
Great video. (-30F) Filter Testing is what I have always wondered about. The filter sits out in the cold, even when a person uses an engine block heater. As a canadian on the prairies, -30 happens probably 10 days a year. -20 probably 20 or 30 days a year.
Hello from the warmer south.
Single digits *f* a few times, 60* today, 70 by Tuesday.
YeeeHaaaaw !!!
That would be fun to do. Maybe someone with a dyno in Alaska could do that.
At 73 years old I remember cars and trucks with no oil filters and just used rod cap cups to splash oil to the cams and cylinders as well as a distributors driven oil pump , living in the Yukon in the 60's as a mechanic we could use a 4 inch stove pipe to heat up the oil pan , I have seen a lot of main and rod bearings gone trying to move a 300 Cummins before the oil was warm , yes the gauge showed high oil pressure but the tar oil was no go no flow . on the old ford 352 360 and 390s it would break the oil pump drive shaft to the oil pump ....whoop's , if you brock down on the highway we would cover the car or big truck with a parachute and use propane bottles to heat it up over night , the only problem was at 50c- we would use an other propane torch to keep the other bottle of propane to not freeze and we would switch tanks every 2 hours ,hey ask me how I know this 😂🤣😅 🥶😰
When I was a kid, mom had her 81 rabbit diesel. We got a cold snap and Dad didn't change out the 20-50 stuff.
She fires it up, has it running in the driveway for about 3 minutes to help get it a little bit warm and takes off.
I see her turn around down the road about 30 seconds later and comes back, The oil light is flashing.
She shut it off immediately.
I was like 13, but I pulled the dipstick and it was like string.
So dad pulled the dream plug, and it probably took it 25 minutes to drain by itself at an ambient temp of like 15f.
Anyways, he didn't change the filter right there because she had to go to work, he dumped in some 10-30 and started it up and let it idle for a few minutes, took it up the road and came back and the oil light was not on, handed it to Mom and off she went to work.
Crazy how much that oil was like lukewarm tar when it flowed out of the pan 😂
That car lasted her until I got it in 91 and hammered it for 2yrs.
Had like 200k but was severely rusty and became undrivable for safety's sake.
Damn those really were the days!!!!…I miss them…!!!!!!
I grew up in a community right at the base of a notoriously dangerous steep mountain road in southwestern PA, there's a runaway truck road coming down it and flashing warning lights on signs coming up the back side of it, a mandatory pull over brake check for tractor trailers at the top before they start their descent and another one half way down with trucks being limited to 10 MPH coming down it, so yea, it's a steep one.
When I was a kid I remember my grandfather telling me about an early OHV straight 6 engine in some vehicles that had cups on the timing chain that would dip into the oil in the pan and toss it into a trough at the top when they flipped around, that trough acted like a gutter that took the oil down the length of the head dripping it on all the components along the way that needed it.
He said you could spot those models of vehicles that had that engine because they'd go backwards up the mountain, reason being is if their oil was a little low and they went up forward the oil in the pan would slosh to the rear and those cups in the timing chain wouldn't pick up oil resulting in the top end being oil starved and burning up.
Great one. People really don‘t know that. Experts arguing about the valves. When your engine explodes it does it with or without the valve, it‘d only delay the damage for an instant. Thus as a frequent filter/oil changer, there‘s no need for a valve, but it won‘t hurt either to have that „safety“ especially during the first work-in periods of an engine.
I appreciate how when you have an expert like Don on, you let him talk uninterrupted. 👍
I was taught that it's good to fill the oil filter whenever possible. It's helps build oil pressure quicker upon start-up.
Yeah but the absolute best thing to do after changing oil if you have an automatic is press the brake pedal down, press the gas pedal down all the way. Hit the start button to crank it over and over quite a few times until you see oil pressure register on your guage and thats the safest way.
Clear Flood Mode is the term, I do it as well but never used the brake pedal @@deanwinchester119
@@deanwinchester119
Ah computers !! 😀😀
@@deanwinchester119 Okay . . . explain what difference it makes if you're just "cranking" the engine or starting it. The oil pump is mechanically driven the same either way. Whether or not the cylinders are firing or not have nothing to do with the oil flow.
@@barrygrant2907 turning the motor over on by the flywheel at 150rpm is very different to turning the motor over with connecting rods at 1600rpm
My favorite oil related RUclips channel by far!
Thanks!
What an insightful channel for explaining things I didn't understand!
Top job.
Someone commented on one of my videos when I did a video cutting open a filter after a 10k mile service. Filter wasn't clogged. The person insisted that it went into bypass when it started and then again at around 5k miles. That the filter can't handle anything over 5k miles. I was like thats totally incorrect my dude. Thanks for watching though. You just verified it for me and I hope he sees this video.
Fascinating video! I have forever thought that the oil filter bypass mode was always a normal mode on really cold starts until the oil thins out a bit. Thanks guys!
I’ve been a car guy for years, WTI 1981. In 2005 I started a job that really open my eyes to hydraulics, the engines oiling system. Same thing only different. Our oiling system did all our work, just like a backhoe etc. I have to say, you really start to understand about what fluids happens to fluids under all these different conditions. The need for fluid testing, proper filtration. Our filters on the pressure side were 10 micron, return side 25 micron.
Great content as always, thanks for taking the time to do this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Every Subaru person that think they need a 20+ psi bypass filter needs to watch this video. I’ve tried explaining this throughout the years and people just can’t get it through their heads. I run Fram Endurance or Ultra on our Subaru with an 11-17psi relief and I have zero worries it’ll go into bypass because they have proven to have very little pressure differential across the media.
Even if you don't completely prefill a canister oil filter with oil, at least getting the filter media wet and primed helps a lot to get that oil flowing faster, that's how I look at it. When a filter is new and dry and you crank the engine like that the oil flow has to work a little harder to wet and prime the media.
I just love this channel. Such easy and understandable explanations of facts. Keep up the great work guy's.
Many thanks
David in the UK
Thanks!
Another Great Geeky morning on oil and filters!
As always, Great Info!
Glad you like them!
Gentlemen, very well done. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
Our pleasure!
I pre filled my oil filter with VRP the other day thanks to you!
Great content . Why don't we see oil pumps fail due to the pump operating on non-filtered oil ?
Thanks! Sounds like we should visit an oil pump manufacturer to get the real answer!
Actually I have seen pumps torn up and cause low hot idle oil pressure. Replace the pump and oil pressure returns to normal at hot idle. Every time I have done this the engine looks pretty clean inside but when I ask the customer if any work was done on the engine prior to the low idle oil pressure the awnser was yes how did you know. I assume the oil was contaminated and tore up the pump but the filter stopped debris from killing the bearings.
Most of the pickups for the oil pumps have a screen to strain out the gross bits and in some engines the pickup is a fraction of an inch above the bottom of the pan
where the pipe connecting the pickup goes up to feed the pump there might be an O ring seal,if that seal leaks (sucks air) might be a disaster for the engine.
Measuring the pressure differential and the bypass pressure caught my attention. I am a swimming pool technician. Residential pool filters need to be cleaned when the pressure rises 8lbs from the starting pressure. Commercial pools have a pressure gauge installed on the inlet and outlet side of the filter. Commercial filters are cleaned based on the pressure differential between inlet and outlet pressure.
The statement about the bypass valve never opening on a cold start needs context.
A +68F startup is a cold start in relation to engine operating temperature, but I live in Canada and a "cold" start is more like -5F and colder. Even if the engine is plugged in, the oil in the pan is not +68F.
What weight was the oil you tested with? Logically, heavier oils will carry a larger delta.
Great video by the way!!!
Even so, the filter is still filtering, and most of the oil, just not all of it.
The dyno is in LA, so "cold" in this test was room temp. It would be fun to repeat the test at a much colder temperature.
Outstanding video, both of you explain things so clearly! Thanks
Thanks!
While it might not have opened much, I believe it probably did open. Because you didn't see a delta higher than ~7psi you state that it didn't open, but that just feels like you guys are trusting the 8-11psi delta rating of the bypass without actually testing it. That bypass easily could have partially opened at that pressure delta, but also you have the graph setup to show max values of each individual curve (which even that was 7.4 psi delta), when the necessary data to compare is max delta between the curves at any point in time, which by judging looking at the graph at 9:54 appears to be closer to 8, which would be right in spec with that bypass. When the bypass opens it is pushing against a spring which would provide a generally linear force until it's fully compressed, allowing a little oil through upon a minimum delta of pressure, and increasingly more oil as the delta increases. I state this because I don't think there would be a significant bend in the curve when the bypass "opens", it being more gradual but not allowing a large pressure differential, which we did never get. I believe if you were to see a significant change in curve it would only be at the point that the filter media AND bypass become too restrictive on the oil flow, basically seeing the bypass' spring reach max compression.
All that to say, it has yet to be seen with your testing what pressure it actually starts letting oil through the bypass (even if a relatively small amount). If the bypass really didn't open on this first round of tests, then a no bypass version with the same filter media should look the exact same on the graph. I would like to see the same test with two filters overlayed on the same graph, of similar construction but with one of them having a bypass valve and the other without. (Probably a custom filter housing so you can put in the exact same filter media, allowing for the only real variable to be the bypass.) I think that's when the data would really show if the bypass opened or not, and when real conclusions could be drawn from the testing.
I was surprised to see that the pressure differential went up with warmer oil, very interesting. I hope to see a follow up at some point testing my hypothesis since you guys have most everything setup to do it! Love the content, keep it up
They also didn't compare at same engine speed, cold to warm. Their test was apples to oranges. Not saying their conclusions are wrong, just that they didn't control all variables.
Fun stuff, but does it matter in the real world?
Man, that dyno console with the analog gauges is awesome. Looks like it could have run a power plant in the 50s!
It's so old school cool!
Concise. Explained, but not overexplained. Thank you for that.
Thanks!
Awesome video, for the content, and for the chemistry between you guys. You're great together.
Thanks so much!
Those premium guard made Wix filters are beautiful. No American manufacturers can touch their build quality anymore.
A video on internal oil filters would be nice. Especially the difference on how they work vs a canister style!
Great work. Please keep making videos. This is a treasue we won't find anywhere else . Also, can you makena video regarding what filter parameters or specifications we should look for when buying aftermarket filters. I don't usually stick to the OEM filter
Thank you!
This video is excellent. More videos on oil filters please
Thanks guys! I was asking myself whether the bypass opens on a cold engine.
How much does viscosity affect the "Delta"? Particularly on a cold soak start? How much difference is there between 5w-20 and 20w-50 at say 20 degrees Fahrenheit?
The dyno is in LA, so "cold" in this test was room temp. It would be fun to repeat the test at a much colder temperature.
I've been pre filling the oil filter for years. Can't hurt doing it.
That's not cold oil, come up here to Minnesota when it -20 in the morning.
That's cold oil.
I get what you are saying, but it's cold oil on both sides of the filter media so they cancel out. That's my take. If the oil was warm on one side I think it would be a different story. I would love to see your scenario tested though.
@@glennmckinley3058 Glenn, consider this. Take some honey, put it in the fridge. See how it flows through a coffee filter. Now heat it up and see how it flows. Cold and thick is going to be harder to push through media, yeah?
The dyno is in LA, so "cold" in this test was room temp. It would be fun to repeat the test at a much colder temperature.
@@bobclarke5913 pretty hard to argue with that. Makes me think that the more square inches of filler media the better for cold climates. Let’s test that too . Big vs little in the cold.
@@themotoroilgeek do you think you guys could come up with a gadget that would indicate bypass position?
Fascinating explanation. Very helpful. Thank you for doing this video!
Glad it was helpful!
Had to laugh at 2:32 when the anti-drainback valve is placed backward to its proper fitment. Glad you didn't edit that out so we (I) would notice ;-)
Always informative and appreciated vids. The vids with Don are great love how you guys bounce facts off each other. Didn't realize the bypass valve psi was only an issue in extreme circumstances. Even though I believe the rating for my engine is the same in the AC/Delco and the Wix. From my understanding the Wix is a better built oil filter and no reason not to make the switch.
Our pleasure!
It's going to be a great day after watching another great video by the Motor Oil GOAT!
Thanks!
I've seen the chevy cart filters get "crushed", the lack of bypass explains that well.
This was very informative. I've always read and heard that on startup the bypass valve is open allowing unfiltered oil to flow through your engine. This video pieces that to be a myth! Thank You 😁
I think it isn't a myth of you're running very viscous oil because the thicker the oil the slower it'll pass through the filter which will cause greater pressure before the filter (simple logical assumptions)
Damn good episode. I learned something today about understanding the Delta vs thinking the bypass was a psi reading
DpPSI/PSIG (gauge)PSIA (absolute). There are Dp gauges, usually with 2 connections unless one side reads atmosphere. Atmosphere is ~14.7 PSIG. A bit confusing as "...A..." absolute & atmosphere both start with '...A..."
Thanks
Certainly some amazing content and some very useful information. One topic this been brewing for quite a while that I would like to see addressed is that of the oil separator/catch can.
Tons of thoughts, both pros and cons, but with the newer and smaller direct injection engines, especially those like the Ford F150 with the hybrid system we seem to be getting a lot more cooling cycles into the engine. This in my mind raises the condensation in oil, at least in the northern states.
Could you, or would you, address the ideology Of an oil separator? Also would be nice to see pros and cons on both sides of the fence. Appreciate it.
Hey Lake, Your videos are great. Thanks for the information. Can you do something for 2 stroke oils?
That was a great video
However, wish you would talk about number of holes on the filter's housing surface
For example, some filters have 4 holes, while some other I've seen 6 or 8 holes.
Which one is/could be better?
We will explore that in the future
The study validated how the valve functions with a new filter. I would suggest two additional studies that are not related to the oil temp at start up.
1. Generate data on a new oil filter then install the oil filter on a low milage vehicle as part of an oil change. After 3K put the oil filter back on the mule with fresh oil and repeat the study. Repeat the study again with a high milage vehicle.
Nice suggestion
I’m curious how much material will an oil filter trap before it gets to the point that it goes into bypass. I also think it would be interesting to see how much filtering capacity is still available when the filter is changed according to the recommended change intervals. Similar to the oil still having the ability to do its job even when the oil life indicator reached 0% in the rental car.
Nice suggestion!
Good stuff, I would also like to hear your observations on a filter brand comparison.
Always love your videos.
So informative. And Engine Oil is the "Life Blood" of an engine. So, knowing as much as possible is a great thing.
Thanks!
The video we all been waiting for
Thanks!
I hope you guys read these comments.
I have a question. I've heard it's best to change the filter every second oil change. The reasoning is that as the filter picks up more material it actually filters better. Which sort of makes sense. As the filter picks up dirt, the 'holes' get filled up, and make the passages for more oil smaller, picking up smaller dirt....
Please either make a video on this, or explain if what I've heard is right or wrong.
Change them every time or put $20k in escrow now for your next engine…
@@jfdjkdjfkjdk Is this your opinion, or back by research?
That can be true. I'm reaching out to a filter manufacturer to be able to test this out.
@ Thank you. I look forward to watching that video. I'm currently binging to get up to date with your other videos. 🙂
@@themotoroilgeek you can simply get a microscope and spread out a cartridge of your own used car and simply prove it by the naked eye
Couple thoughts to contribute. The bypass valve is spring-loaded so just because it may 'bypass' does not mean it bypasses all the oil flow. The filter media will continue to flow oil the entire time, in concert with any bypass that occurs. Also, when bypassing due to a 'clogged filter' media, the media still flows oil (just less flow) and likely does so with an even smaller size (micron) filtering. Partially clogged filters of all conventional types are better at removing smaller-than-nominal debris, which is a tradeoff for not flowing as much.
did you do a video on the e85 alcohol filters, supposably the paper gaskets break down on e85 /alcohol engines with the contaminations of fuel in the oil
Great suggestion!
Great video. Don explains things easily.
Glad you think so!
I use a Full synthetic oil filter and there's a difference to the filter medium used and the construction of materials used in the manufacturing of that oil filter Ryco 663st is the part number for a Chevy L77 V8 engine and i change the oil in my car every 5,000 to 7,000Km all the time and now using DEXOS 1 gen 3 licenced oil product. Keep up the great work Lake and team.🦘🦘👍👍
Thanks Lake, what is the best filter to use with synthetic oil. What are the differences between regular, and extended drain? (BTW I don’t extend my drains, but was asked by my brother-in-law). Keep up the good information.
Thank you Link and Don! Great informative video!
Our pleasure!
I'd like to see videos of different media types. Cellulose, glass, etc.. and the difference in backpressure, hp/tq, etc..
Noted!
Thanks once again for the awesome information and education!
Thanks!
Interesting video and I don't doubt your results but I would suggest the result doesn't speak for all engine/oil/filter combinations. I have seen a similar test done on a different motor (Holden) with a different style of filter (older paper element Vs enhanced cellulose) and different oil grade with the internal engine oil bypass blocked forcing all oil through the filter and it showed a cold oil delta of about 20psi across the filter. I am happy to see modern oils and filters certainly flow better cold than the stuff we ran 5-10 years ago. Sadly, down under, Wix filters are not commonly stocked on automotive shelves and it's more of a exotic item. I run Ryco filters and have only recently made the switch to their cellulose range. We always pre-fill oil filters.
The pre filing an oil filter debate exists for those that need to take a contrarian view to seem intelligent or argue for social interaction. The real question is do you pre-fill an upside down filter…
I guess my question is, if pre filling the oil filter is so crucial, then why are so many makes and models of cars having oil filters that screw in on the side of the engine, or on the top? Shouldn't all engines have the oil filter on the bottom (in other words, facing up)? That just doesn't make sense to me.
Block oil resistance 'produces' a pressure of x. Pressure required to push oil through the filter AND the block will be pressure y (produced by the oil pump). The bypass will only open if the difference in those pressures is more than the stated bypass pressure. ie, if the push required to push the oil through the filter (assuming no block behind it) is higher than the bypass pressure. Even if the block resistance required 10,000 psi (assuming the pump could produce that!) the bypass would still not open unless the filter was blocked so much as to require 10,010psi.
There is usually another bypass valve somewhere set to a high pressure that "dumps" oil back to the sump without the oil going through the engine lube system. I think usually not part of the oil filter assembly.
@@davidpowell3347 That's usually in the oil pump itself.
Always good stuff. I grew up around the oil biz and know it's importance! thx
Thanks!
Great one. Should have some exciting convo over on BITOG from this. Would have been good to include cartridge filter setups as well.
Thanks. We don’t have any engines that take a cartridge filter.
I think what gets people hung up is the idea the cold oil has lower delta P than hot oil does. But what they’re forgetting is that the FLOW when cold is much, much less. Higher oil pressure means more “restriction” to oil flow. Total flow in the oil pump loop is much less when cold. This is why your filter has higher delta P warm than it does cold-- because the lower viscosity of warm oil is drastically increasing flow rates in the system (especially through the filter).
The total pressure inside the can relative to atmospheric pressure outside the can might be very high while the ^ across the media might be low due to low flow
Great video Lake!! Good education for us oil nerds!! ❤
Always fantastic & informative information! Thanks Lake
Glad you enjoyed it!
@Lake Can you please make a video if Very Fine Bypass Filters are worth it,? You said that the filter only filters out particles over 25 microns in size. There are aftermarket filters who are build in parallel to the main filter and they filter at around 1 micron (advertised). I think the main question regarding this topic is: how thick is the oil film under load, for example between cam and lifter? That would give a rough estimation of how big particles can be without (!) being abrasive, at least in my opinion. Having particles 25 microns of size in my oil sounds scary! It's like lapping paste... Great content, as always! Marlon
They incorrectly stated that particles smaller than 25 microns will not hurt anything. Clearances inside an engine run between 1 - 5 microns. There are SAE articles on the benefits of bypass filters, and that most wear occurs between 5 - 15 microns. I've posted oil lab results of my 2 micron bypass on FB forums.
I was also wondering about testing bypass filters. I put one on the crate engine in the Caprice wagon and wondered if it was worthwhile since the old engine lasted nearly 200,000 miles with the previous owner's sketchy maintenance schedule.
@oldcoot3459 you can do the test yourself. Install a bypass, and test oil using a particle count lab test. I've done this for years. Just did the same last week. The oil is cleaner than when it was new.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Great information dudes, keep up educationing me.
Thanks! Will do!
I'm getting more and more a complete picture! 😃👍
I didn't know anything about the small Delta in oil pressure.
I already got a good understanding of the flow by a video of Garage 54, who made a transparent oil-filter.
The different qualities of oil-filters (incl. microscopic images of the filter media) are well shown in the videos of City Whip Wrencher.
I remember my dad in the Canadian prairies draining his hot oil and putting it in a steel bucket on the wood stove all night then pour it in the cold engine the next morning and then wait till the frost melted off the out side of the engine block and then start it and drive away to work, and then at work start it up at lunch time again .
WOW!
Awesome video guys!
Thanks!
Most people simply cannot think!
You want the MOST area in order to have the best flow and space for particles so it takes longer to clog and activate the bypass valve!
Anti-drain valve is only needed for applications where the filter is sideways or upside down so oil stays inside the filter.
This is great info but a huge miss is not talking about cartridge oil filters. I've looked and looked for information on cartridge style oil filters with little to no luck.
Since alot (probably majority of newer vehicles are cartridge style I would absolutely love a video going over the differences as I'm sure there are some of not many
Nice! I cannot wait for the next video. I’m just learning and going to attempt my own oil change soon. So for someone that drives 32k miles a year would you recommend Supertech or something premium?
You can do it. Used oil analysis can help you find determine the proper oil change interval. Supertech is fine for a daily driver.
I’m not sure if you have touched base on this yet. But I’m curious to know what’s your opinion on oil bypass filters? Do you think they actually catch particles down to 3 micron? And do you need to catch particles that small?
I like bypass filtering, 2 filters in one. A very fine filter and a courser filter in parallel. Get the really fine stuff out over time. Still allow enough flow at acceptable pressures. Likely still need a full bypass in very cold weather at startup. We get -20 to -40F weather for a few days each year. For engine oil.
Hello Lake, really Great video from you guys always very informative.
So Old School guys that block the bypass on SBC & BBC is neither right or wrong so long as you do regular oil & filter changes???
Right
Years ago after studying oil filters construction, I started using only filters that had the bypass valve at the upper end by where it threads on. My thinking was that when it was -10 degrees Outside and I start up and start driving if the bypass was opening because of the thick oil that it would not draw from the bottom of the filter can where any sediment or dirt would have settled from the outer filter element and go straight to the crankshaft bearings. I would like to see the same test done at real cold temps to see if or how long it stays open.
The dyno is in LA, so "cold" in this test was room temp. It would be fun to repeat the test at a much colder temperature.
Loved the video, especially the explanation of the delta pressure for the bypass valve. One question. I have already seen a lot of discussion re. this video on an automotive lubrication discussion board, and Bob's friends would love to see this test run with actual cold weather conditions, and initial startup. Any chance you could do that? I for one would also love to see that. Put this Delta P question to rest.
I guess if we had a dyno in Alaska we could repeat the test. It’s hard to get the oil colder than 60F in LA.
@@themotoroilgeek Any way to put the oil and filter in a cold chamber, then fill the engine and install filter immediately before performing the test? Not ideal, but it should validate what you saw, in regards to lower delta P on a cold engine, than a warmed up engine.
You guys are freaking awesome. Nail it every time. Can’t argue with data. 👍
Thanks!
Great video and very informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video guys. Thank you for explaining oil filters. 👍
Our pleasure!
Very helpful! Thank you!
To me "cold oil" doesn't mean room temperature. What about at 5 below zero? Would the differential be high enough then to open the bypass valve?
How well do you think it's going to flow through the engine at that temp? This is a balance of restrictions, which is more restrictive, the filter or the engine. The relationship between engine and filter should be fairly independent of oil temp (viscosity). It changes when the filter loads or as the engine wears out (clearances become larger).
The dyno is in LA, so "cold" in this test was room temp. It would be fun to repeat the test at a much colder temperature.
Do another one on Filter Media!! People believe(wrongly) That the XP Filters are better in "every" way.
XP = higher micron rating.
That's on the agenda!
Thank you for this video!!
Glad you enjoyed it.
I just bought an amsoil filter for the first time. Apparently they are good. Also the new fram synthetic endurance is good too?
Another great informative video. Thx Lake.
Thanks!
Great video, brother!
Great timing with this video lol
@ hahaha, right???
I cringe every time a GM guy deletes the filter bypass on a SBC/BBC. There's no benefit to doing that. They're just removing their only failsafe in the event of a filter clog or failure.
Top Man, this is the best video ever explaining what the hell goes on in an oil filter, keep up the good work.
Thank you!