Why Does the Market Know Where My Stops Are? 😒
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
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Why does the market know where my stops are? Can others see my stop loss prices? This seems to be the rallying call for many traders and it can get really frustrating. Does the market stop hunt and do market makers and brokers still hunt stops? If everybody is long and their stop is below the low who is left to buy? And why would anyone want to buy higher? How does a market-making algorithm see my stops? And how do you combat this? OK.P
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Sir, your channel is extremely underrated, And to be honest you deserve more than a million followers.. Love from India.
I scalp the ES exclusively. We have one trader in our group who looks for traps and trades when he knows bulls or bears are trapped. For him: No trap, no trade. Myself I look for the patterns. Yes I will recognize traps sometimes and if the trap also aligns with the pattern I see it adds confidence but I don't look for traps exclusively.
Actually a really good strategy and one I employ myself when I daytrade. You’re controlling your risk on entry by only taking very good entries at a more favorable price than you would have normally. The only time you’ll be stopped out this way is if the market actually changes direction decisively instead of just wicking down/up, in which case you would have been stopped out anyway and the stoploss is working as intended saving you from further loss.
technically it's the differences between indicators lagging and price action advancement , an intersecting range(timing) between the two (indicator, price action) is where we should look for a position
Smaller position size wider stop till more confirmation. Then add.
Adding margin during a trade only helps to increase the liquidation price.
Very smart approach, I will dig into this thesis, thanks for sharing this!
Who can resist a for sale sign? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's a fine art. We all know the liquidity flush is the game before the move back up, but we also know the same move can break right through like a trap door.
Thank you so much for this piece of information
I seem to be already doing this and I am glad there is someone out there who thinks like me. Great video
Good in depth explanation. The simple answer would be; because retail traders are way too predictable.
I'm excited/nervous for tomorrow 😄 Another great vid here. Iv been on your channel all weekend 👍
This is brilliant. Thanks for making these videos. Learning a lot from your lessons!
If you have time to actively trade, you should instead use market orders and have the discipline to sell before you begin taking an unacceptable loss. This will keep you from getting booted early before the trade goes in the direction you anticipated.
Set a hard stop well below this as a precaution if you want. You only need to place an actual stop limit or stop market order if you're not able to be at your desk during that trade.
Before you take a position on anything though you have to ask yourself if this is a trade or an investment. If your goal is more cash at the end of the day, then you need a stop. If you're an investor you need to cap your exposure, cost average, and diversify into different assets and asset classes.
Either way, managing your risk is always priority one.
Place your entries where people would put their stops !
But do I place my entry at your stop?
That's too smart.
If you knew exactly where people placed stops than you know exactly where price is going and you’d be a fucking billionaire and wouldn’t be commenting here on RUclips . Stfu😂
This has worked descent for me, using the Wyckoff methodology in identifying the Spring and UTAD. I think finding zones where the is liquidity in the market and have a break of structure with then the price coming back to mitigate that position. The R:R is insanely good and when you good with the Wyckoff schematic, its definitely worth your while.
Just replying to say thank you for all the videos, that you made so far. The way you address problems that face an amateur trader like me and the way I think in a trade, and how to fix those problems is much appreciated.
Genius proposition! It speaks to me directly, and I will implement it. Thanks a bunch for all you share 🎉😊
I always buy and sell where i think stops are. One got to be brave, but its rewarding
There seem to be a lot of statistics in trading. So if i finally identify a small edge (after slippage etc), I can realise that edge over the long term by repeating my strategy. Due to chance, sometimes i will anyway lose, sometimes win ... but if my strategy is good then over the long term i will realise my edge (all things being equal, which they aren't). However, as a retail trader i may go bust in the short term due to chance, before i get a chance to realise my edge over the long term. An institutional trader would not have this problem because they have deeper pockets, they can trade for long enough to see the edge appear over the long term. Therefore, are we wasting our time as retail traders, because we probably cannot survive enough losses to realise an edge over the long term consistently? Genuine question - I appreciate your videos and I believe you would have some insight here, love to hear your opinion.
Thanks for the comment. This really is a question about how much trading capital you have. I'd say those traders who put in 500 quid or 2k can't really expect much - it is money which you put in for learning. But those trading with serious money (at least 20k preferably 50k+) aren't in it to lose it even though you still have to accept losses as a normal part of trading.
I have a screen with single ticks im trading off of larger time frames but i always wait for the the single ticks to break below my support lines then i enter when they go back above the support line .
Thank you so much
You’re a good teacher. I was actually thinking about this very idea yesterday. Do you think, over time, it would lead to more and more exaggerated moves as everyone tries to outsmart the market?
My background is in economics so I understood your supply/demand explanation but for the majority of viewers, some sort of visual representation would help get their head around this concept I think.
The market doesn't know or care about you. You're emotions are just the same as every other participant. Great traders read you by reading themselves.
It doesn't know or care about you ( specifically) but it does know where your stops are or likely to be. They front run your orders and run your stops. It's just a fact. This is a good counter strategy that is useful in specific circumstances.
The man have deep knowledge of what he is talking about
However, if the price moves to exact level of your stop at the split second when you are placing it, even before you pressed the "submit" button, and this happens often - wouldn't you suspect that your broker of dishonesty? Such as the famous case of RH selling your stops to third parties?
I use to use stop losses, and lost. As soon as I stope dI started seeing success. The fact that market makers are transacting my order from my broker via pay for orders and also trading on their own they can get quick shares from me. Never put stop loss with your original order!
Thank you for the great vid! Can you explain how or wether leverage trading affects the actual price of an asset... i found there to be different opinions on that... thank you! Cheers
The sudden liquidation of Hwang’s Archegos Capital Management sparked a fire sale of more than $20bn assets that has left some of the world’s biggest investment banks nursing billions of dollars of losses. The firm borrowed a lot of money from various financial institutions and held almost $110bn in stocks despite only having around $20bn. That tells you that leveraged trading done by big institutions does affect the price of an asset.
@@ukspreadbetting thank you kindly for the answer... fascinating!!
Be careful which binary outfit you're using because most are sharks. There are a good reason why binaries got banned in Europe.
I've experienced ridiculously large % moves to stop me out. Stopped using them. Used 1 recently for the 1st time in a while, and what do u know, got stopped out & the stock took off from there!
💯
What's the purpose of stop hunting and short squeeze, i never get it. Orders are just cancelled, orders which aren't executed. Anyway if you look at the last top range on EURUSD, there was very little stop hunt. I see often spikes just to test a level, before going down.. but they won't hunt beyond that it's a logical level... So this is expected.
They don't care about us.
The market manipulation is what they care for.
Some ideas come to mind but im just spitballing: Stophunting is pushing the price down and then it rushes up, so all the people who got stopped out have to buy in higher, so the institution could then use that extra liquidity to take profits. The other thing is that people who got stopped out wont be able to take profits further up. Just imagine some institution wanted to move the price and put money in just to see other people then taking profits and dumping the price - leaving that institution maybe even at a loss, if it changes the trend. Another thing is, that the safest and cheapest palce to buy is at support, so thats where those orders aim and thats mostly where the stops are. Another thing could be to trap shorts - people wait to short once some support levels breaks - the "stop hunting" activates the sell orders of those shorts, driving the price up and eve nforcing those short-trades to rebuy the stock for a much higher price further pushing price upwards.
Mark: so is it possible that those 'stop loss figures' appear in Level 2?
Would you agree that Institutions has more visibility than retail about where money is as there trading platforms are better.
Too easy for banks to search using level 2 and level 3 data and all computerized vs looking through stacks of cards. They can push price down on low volume and then buy... Just got burnt on TSLA at 593 stop and then stock took off 100 up. I really try avoid using them in swing trades and just try to get the right price and good setup.
I like listening to brains which functioning within normal parameters
Exactly...I also always liked his"fast" to some people speed of thinking. To me it's normal, he explains laterly everything even too well, I understand already what he is going to tell from a half of frase...
Good video.
I need to understand something so it would be helpful if some can recommend a book. If there is more buyers then seller and price then should go up,why is the price reacting on the bad news everywhere the same on all instruments that are colarated and not opposite. Why doesn't go up on some things where there is no bearish pressure but just opposite, there would be just a small pullback or consolidation?
My stops are in my head
If you think the market knows were your stops are, you probably don't have a trading plan and haven't yet backtested you strategy
I disagree. Computer algorithms can take advantage of all of the stop orders. Don't enter stop loss orders unless you want them to execute.
I think they know way more than most people could ever imagine, and the psychological tactics they use are getting more and more sophisticated, they care about your money and taking it from you, even its just 10 cents they want it all.
The market foesnt know where your stops are. your broker who trades against you does and that's why they get taken out
Great explanation thank you 🙏
My buddies from my IE Masters program have no problem admitting that they do themselves and or know the bit flippers who write HFT algos which use level 3 data to intentionally and very profitably hunt stops. That is precisely why Melvin and friends PAY for orderlow. It is the exact same thing as in the pit days, but much more efficient, fast and precise.
Emphasis on “Move”
UK spreadbetting is usually very good and as myself having worked for years on the floor of the NYSE-- it is VERY true we ALWAYS had paper record of the stop orders were and that liquidity was TAKEN (hunted) and sold to the big investors who gave us a LOT of business, without them knowing we were party to the problem!! The history is very important and is also VERY telling how many people who have only been involved since computerized trading and app (phone based) has exploded! EVERY one of these people need to study MORE and TRADE a LOT less!
The evolution of high speed trading and sheer volume of traders AND investors is just a bigger pond to catch more fish!!!
BUT ----There is a MASSIVE hole in so many youtube videos and even stock education web sites; about STOP LOSSES being taken out!
The Following is the ONLY TRUTH, sorry, it bears REPEATING --- this will BE the ONLY TRUTH, I know how strong a statement this!!!
1)EVERY SINGLE -- "stop loss" -- you EVER put in----- WILL ALWAYS --- BE SEEN-- I REALLY hope people get that-- that is IT!
2) it DOES NOT matter the KIND of "stop loss" trailing or "stop limit" or otherwise--- it DOES NOT!
How is that possible?
Because -- you stop loss---- IS ----- a LIMIT ORDER------ and NO -- it does NOT have to be a STOP LIMIT order!
We ALL KNOW -- "stop limit LOSS orders are more definitive-- but --- still, ALL stop losses are seen!
a TYPICAL stop loss order----- turns into a MARKET ORDER--- but it is STILL SEEN-- LONG before it is hit!
This is SO important!!!!
ANY stop order you SEND- on your trading platform -- is seen, you ARE POSTING IT -- that is the BIG PROBLEM!
I have NO IDEA why people don't want to talk about that TRUTH in videos like this!!
When you put a LIMIT order into BUY-- it is SEEN by EVERY person and EVERY market maker--- you are TELLING everyone -- this is MY LIMIT, come
hit MY PRICE--- or I just won't BUY!
WELL-- the STOP LOSS -- works the SAME WAY and it IS SEEN!
ANY trading service(platform) that TELLS you you can HIDE you STOP--- is FLAT OUT LYING! SO DON'T EVEN try saying otherwise! DAS software MEANS NOTHING ALSO!!
The concept of "stop loss", and Limit stop loss and even buy limits are NOT CLEAR enough on what IS SEEN, ALL that liquidity -- IS SEEN-- PERIOD!
Yes, those concepts are talked about -- in "basic terms"-- but NOT this and the REAL RESULT of what kind of order you just put in!
RETAIL traders look at LONG close range stretches and they CALL it a BASING price structure --- and is SUPPORT ,and THINK wrongly-- that this "support" will HELP them!
What it REALLY is; an OPPORTUNITY-- for the big investment banks --- to get EVEN MORE of that so called "support"-- go get MORE amounts of stops,
all of a SUDDEN, retail traders - just thinks -- the " large support level" was taken out and "I am glad to be out"---- just to SEE a BIG reversal!
ONE more TIME; NO MATTER what kind of stop loss you use-- it IS SEEN, by every market maker( they LIE if they say other wise or just does not know what is going on!)
The ONLY way to NOT be SEEN is you SITTING in FRONT of your trading platform and WATCHING--- WITH a MENTAL -- stop-- then put your SELL!
This part is IMPORTANT--- put you SELL LIMIT ---- in BETWEEN --- the SPREAD--- somewhere! This will still not guarantee you get filled, but if you do get filled it will not be at the LOWER stop loss you KEEP changing or have set that creates more of a loss the the --- INSIDE the SPREAD, just try to SELL inside the SPREAD!!
I an disappointed this stop loss ISSUE - as "always seen" is not discussed on SO many other youtube videos-- because -- it is the ONLY TRUTH!
I would love it if someone would actually answer the the million dollar question: are you comfortable buying at the top of the market.
If you do that, you would not only reduce the no.of loss making trades, but profit making trades too because you would miss entries in most cases. In other words, there is no way a trader could avoid losses 100% of the time. If we are right by 40% of the time with 1:3 RR ratio, we would still be profitable. Thats the game.
When he says “stops” I think he’s talking about buy stops and sell stops 🤦♂️I’m so lost
unfortunately the market these days knows a lot more...down to how near u r to ur margin call....they even know when u r not wathching... even when u r touching the mouse or keyb.
Hello Mark. I would like to here advise from you on how to beat the cost of commissions when starting out trading with a small account. At this moment in time i am "green" after 8 months of trading but actually in the Red by 800$ bucks due to commission. Any advise would be appreciated, much love
Try to find a broker that charges you low charges or very tight spreads.
I trade the asian markets and have an account with an asian based broker. I scalp a lot of the time on the minute and even down to the 5 seconds charts and found after thousands of trades that it does seem likely there are firms out there that stop hunt - in this case most probably HFT firms. I've had many of my stop losses hit exactly on my stop level and then the market would bounce and it would then show 2 trades at my stop level -1 to trigger my stop and the other is to trade me out of my position. Most likely the my broker is selling order flow to these particular HFT firms and so If the price isn't too far from my stop it would come and claim it. This is the reason I no longer set stop losses right upon entering the trade. If the trade has moved far in my favor then I put a stop in as the chances it would trigger it are smaller.
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You draw à perfekt wyckoff spring
*_*ASSUME SOMEONE IS LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER_**
Any possible way to make money.
ANY possible way.
Including looking at stops and causing them to be stopped out.
You did well and your brokerage statement shows a huge increase? Someone's looking over your shoulder to find out how. To make money, to copy your strategy, and/or to trade against it.
Since I have a software developer background, let me say, if I was in the IT department at a brokerage house and we were told to "write code that tracks any of our customers' accounts that increase by X% in Y time frame" it would be easy to do.
BOSS: "Jim, we need your team to develop code to let our in-house traders know if any customer accounts increase by over 10% over a 5-trading day period." JIM: "Is that ethical?" BOSS: "I'll pretend I didn't hear that. Write the code."
*_*ASSUME SOMEONE IS LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER_**
This is MONEY. If you find a way to trade to make money SOMEONE GONNA TRY TO STEAL IT.
Sorry but that's how insiders play. If you could look at the firm's book of all customer trading activity, you could write ALL SORTS OF CODE and run the code in the company's computer trading system to earn the company money.
"Do companies enrich themselves by copying/trading against/victimizing their own customers?"
Is money involved?
"Yes"
Of COURSE companies do. Is it ethical? Doesn't matter (to them). As soon as you enter your order, it's in - who's computer system - yours? Or the firm's? THE FIRM'S COMPUTER SYSTEM.
They are going to freaking MONETIZE all their data including customer trading data.
After we developed trading systems and they suddenly mysteriously stopped working we considered buying a seat on the Pacific Stock Exchange and trading right on the floor, to address this 'looking over your shoulder' problem. This was in the early 1990s when the PSE still existed.
DON'T TRUST ANYBODY, especially a financial firm, to be ethical 100% of the time.
.
I'm so agree with you! ... That's one of the reasons I never believed in running a mathimatision system in the markets!
I appreciate you Mark. Been on this journey 4 years and it's amazing I'm still learning. Been watching you for years and me and many others love this channel. Please keep contributing 👍
It's a conspiracy yes I am starting to belief this.
Stop losses are for losers who obsess about losses. Because. That's why they're called stop losses.
Süper :)
Advising traders to look for reversals is a dangerous game. Just wait for the market to trend, and hop on. Trade what you see, not what you want to happen
The market gives signs of reversals, specially after panic buys or sells.
Exactly 👍👌. Trading reversals are high risk strategies. It need +100backtest results
Waiting for markets to trend is not enough, because usually, by the time the trend becomes obvious to everyone, that's when the fun and games begin with whipping traders around.
If it only it were that easy "Yeah just wait for the trend".
Everyone would be rich if that were the case.
I’m sorry I drifted off , what am I watching
I get your argument but you could work on your explanation
The brokers who have Floating Spread bets can hunt your SL easily by drag the spreads ... thats why i choose only fix spreads accounts.
Start putting your enties where you would normally place your stops.
Lmfao
Not the best explanation video on the topic. Could have been made much better with a daily chart of any popular equity and illustrating a real life scenario.
You don't need stops if 90% of your trades are correct
Market does not know where your stops are people just always want to blame something or someone for they’re failure. Hedge is the answer. If banks and hedgfunds don’t use stop loss then why should you. Brokers can know where your stops are but they cannot move the market that’s just dumb
None of this addresses the company behind the stock. That's why I don't subscribe to this style of trading.
only stupid people think that tho. I mean its all a matter of the EV of your trade, 99% people who are trading dont even know what EV is let alone calculating it and its actually a bit weird cause I ve been following a bunch of "youtube" trainers and neither of them EVEN uses the term EV.
What's EV? Educate me🙏🏿
@@hoffadash4132 Step 1: Google
The fact that this video had to be made, ugh.....
I liked most of your video’s but quit lying to the people. You know they know how else could they create liquidity?