How Much Growth do Accessory Muscles Get from Compound Lifts?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
00:17 Prime Movers vs Accessory Muscles
02:18 Accessory Muscles & Hypertrophy
08:16 Muscle Anatomy
11:00 Training Strategies
13:14 Practical Recommendations
STUDIES
sportrxiv.org/index.php/serve...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33497...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37461...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31230...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34198...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31824...
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Such high quality content, you deserve wayyyy more subscribers and visibility in the fitness community imo!
glad you enjoy the content 👍
I have just subscribed!
agreed
You should collaborate with house of hypertrophy
maybe at some point 🤔
@@FlowHighPerformance1 Your site is great, it offers another way of looking at the sub.
Why, because of the accents?
@@Integrationist😂
@@Integrationist because they make similar content. And that would be dope!
Another GREAT VID from a GREAT CHANNEL! Thank you for all the effort you put into your productions.
No problem 👍
Hey man, your videos help me get on track at the gym and being healthy in general - it’s only been a couple of months but I see myself gaining progress every time! Thank you for all of your informed research advice, you changed my life
Thats awesome! Keep up the good work 👍
Excellent video.
I was looking for a video that explained the concept of biarticular muscles for a long time but I just didn’t know what to type on the search by. I’m happy I clicked on this link for a different reason.
Glad it was helpful 👍
Great video, this channel should have way more subs!
Glad you enjoy the content 👍
Very interesting video!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🏋️ Compound lifts target one primary muscle group but also engage other "accessory" muscles.
00:15 💪 Prime movers perform the bulk of the work during an exercise, with others acting as accessory muscles.
00:43 🤝 Accessory muscles either help prime movers move the load or stabilize other joints.
01:10 🛠️ Using the row exercise as an example: back muscles are the prime movers while biceps, forearms, and rear deltoids are accessory muscles.
01:51 🔀 Adjusting lifting technique can change which muscles are considered prime movers or accessories.
02:33 🎯 Prime movers get the best hypertrophic stimulus since they're the target muscles.
03:00 ⚖️ Training closer to failure is exponentially more effective for muscle growth.
03:54 📈 More advanced lifters need to train closer to failure for significant growth compared to novices.
05:16 🌱 Novice lifters have a lower threshold for adaptation, meaning accessory muscles might still grow significantly even if not trained to failure.
05:45 📏 Accessory muscle hypertrophy is influenced by their range of motion in exercises.
07:07 🔄 Dynamic muscle actions, where muscles change length, are generally better for hypertrophy than isometric ones.
07:48 🧭 Muscle anatomy, specifically origin and insertion points, influences how much they're used in exercises.
08:45 🤔 Bi-articular muscles move two or more joints and may not be fully utilized if opposing actions are involved.
09:40 📊 Hamstrings don't change much in length during squats, impacting their training.
09:51 📉 Study: Deep squats resulted in superior muscle growth for certain muscles than shallow squats.
10:20 🚫 Bi-articular nature of some muscles means they aren't well-trained in some exercises, like hamstrings in squats.
10:46 📝 Some muscles, like biceps in certain rows, don't change much in length due to opposing joint actions.
11:00 🛠️ Manipulating variables like lifting technique can influence accessory muscle growth.
11:14 💡 Bench press study: Different grip widths alter triceps activity.
11:56 🔄 Pre-fatigue can influence how much growth accessory muscles achieve.
12:23 📊 Study: Traditional training vs pre-fatigue showed differing growth in certain muscles.
13:06 💡 Compound lifts provide some hypertrophy stimulus for accessory muscles.
13:36 🌡️ Factors like range of motion, dynamic involvement, and lifter's experience affect accessory muscle growth.
14:02 📋 Use compound lifts to stress prime movers, while other exercises can target accessory muscles.
14:16 📌 It's recommended to maximize stress on a specific muscle group with compound lifts and target others separately.
Made with HARPA AI
An AI made this?!?!?
Hey man awesome content! It's not common to find a youtube video that really goes through the proper studies and even rarer for it to be a excercise oriented channel as well. I was wondering if you could do a take on Calisthenics and Weighted Calistenics video when possible.
Again, thank you for so many great videos and let's pray that the algorithm shows you to more people!
Glad you like the format! I may make a video on this topic at some point as I have had many requests 👍
i have always been wanting to get into the gym but found the information online quite overwhelming as it can contradict itself. everything you say is put so very clearly and is easily digestible for the clueless beginner (like me hehehe) Thank you so much for your videos, theyre so informative and truly fulfill my hunger and curiosity for my health and wellness questions. ❤❤❤
No problem, glad you find the content helpful 👍
Jeff Nippard is also a great source if you trust science
Excellent explanation💪🏼
Just discovered this channel. Looks like a lot of good info presented in easy to digest package. Thank you. Subscribed.
Touching on the topic slightly - for me personally, I found that if you're not an athlete/bodybuilder/someone with imbalances/someone in recovery, then focusing the training around the main large muscle groups and compound multi-joint types of movements works really well for every muscle.
I know many will disagree and fair enough, but after years of training and several experiments I personally never saw any strong sense, benefit or real life carry-over in doing isolation exercises unless again you find yourself in one of the groups I mention above. Perhaps abdominal training is an exception.
For example, I would argue biceps gets great attention and workout if you do something like weighted chins, pullups, rows and farmer carries throught the week.
Welcome to the channel! Yes, you will certainly be in good shape by only performing compound lifts. Isolations can help maximise development of some other muscles if that is something you are interested in. Also, like everything, the amount of growth accessory muscles get from compounds will differ from person to person 👍
Another great video.....
Great video. Thanks
no problem 👍
Furthermore.........I love this guy!
Great video! Very informative!
Glad it was helpful 👍
always appreciate your videos, practical recommendations really sums it up well.
Quick question, how do you suggest transitioning from a long cut (4-5 months) to a lean bulk in terms of a calorie shift etc? Should I be eating at maintenance? Or how many calories to add etc
It is highly dependent on your context. Generally I'd recommend staying at maintenance for a short while before going into a surplus (if that is your plan). Although if you are very lean, maintenance probably isn't feasible 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1thanks, I’m not very lean
Very good video, the most interesting section for me was the section on Bi-articular accessory muscles and where they may not be well trained due to opposing joint actions. This seems to contradict other sources of information from bodybuilding authorities:
1) Mike Mentzer, in one of his lectures, stated that the undergrip pulldown was the best biceps exercise in existence.
2) Bret Contreras tested squats using EMG and the gastrocnemius displayed a very high reading, even higher than standing calf raises!
I've heard people say pulldowns/pull ups are good bicep exercise, but I've never seen the EMG data on squats for gastroc activation 🤔
bro use stock videos! your content is great and it just needs a touch up. it's my attention to blame but most people hate pictures. your info is top notch
thanks for the suggestion, ill consider it 👍
Hey Peter just wanted you know your thoughts on a push pull leg routine if you do tri isolation on the beginning of your pull day and your bi training at the beginning of your legs day. Just thinking they are always prefatigued when people stimulate them at the end of the traditional workout. Because they are relatively small muscle they have probably recovered from work received from previous days compound lifts with quality of the isolation sets being better
I think it is completely fine to do. Whether or not it will be superior to performing arms at the end of a push/pull day - i dont know. yes, it will allow you to train in a less fatigued state, but I dont think this always means more muscle growth based on some of the evidence we have on drop sets a pre-fatigue training 🤔
Any info on pre-fatiguing the accessory muscles rather than prime mover? Thinking being that given the target muscle fatigues before the accessory muscles in traditional training, pre-fatiguing the accessory muscles would bring them closer to failure during the compound and thus result in more growth?
Interesting thought. I haven't seen any research on this, but I'd love to see more evidence on the effects of pre-fatigue for different muscles and different movements 🤔
Youd have to individually experiment, though if your main goal is say tricep growth, it may be beneficial to do say tricep pushdowns before a bench, but its likely your bench will suffer. Its probably better to prioritise compounds before isolation in most individuals though.
Ive tried pre exhaustion on chest with flys and found it wasnt favourable and do them after.
I've tried something similar. I tried dips focused on triceps super setted with incline bench press. Dumbbell or bar. It really shows how much you use acc.muscles! Over 4 weeks though, I lost strength in my benching movements. Back exercises done starting with bar or db curls were not as effected as pushing moves. Everybody's different. Good luck.
I have a question which is only partially related to this video being that it is about fitness.
So I'm heavily considering studying sports science based subjects in college (in the UK) but I feel a bit lost in deciding the specific subjects, and I haven't found much good advice on this online yet.
I'm only really interested in fitness and strength training and not actually into any kind of sport, except maybe power lifting, and I'm also interested in nutrition. So I was wandering what courses or combination of courses I should choose if I want to study purely science of muscle growth, dieting, and the likes - without doing basketball, football, or competing in sports.
It's okay if i don't get an answer I'll find out either way through the great vine. I'm just lowkey shitting it when it comes to choosing what to invest my time and money in, and I'd be blessed to make the right decision the first try.
Thank you either way, the video was very informative and I'll be sure to watch it again and read the studies mentioned.
Not really sure to be honest. In my experience, my entire degree (Exercise & Sports Science) was not helpful at all in terms of lifting, nutrition or sports 🤷
I believe this is why beginners can grow a lot of different muscles doing basic 6 compound movements and only add smaller accessory lifts and isolations after advancing further in their training
For sure 💪
Great video.. one question tho. Is pre fatiguing the muscle acutally better than traditional for hypertrophy?
I wouldn't say it is better. But it gives us another option to work around injury 👍
Intermittently using pre-exhaust tech is great for a change but straight prog overload will build musc consistently
I believe there may have been a study within the past year or two on pre-exhaustion (it might even be the one cited in this video) where the conclusion was that pre-fatiguing the primary mover showed little to no extra growth for that muscle. It just limited the ability to bring accessory muscles within proximity to failure.
It's mostly useful for insanely strong lifters (enhanced) to limit joint stress. Lets them use less weight on the compound lift and achieve similar stimulus on the target muscle.
Feels like my accessory muscles are always the ones failing first
Perhaps surprisingly, I came to the opposite conclusion of your closing statement. 14:29
As long as your technique permits the prime mover to be the limiting factor, increased recruitment of accessory muscles is just a bonus stimulus.
Things to consider:
-You will be able to/have to lift more weight (as you want your target muscle to receive the same stimulus, and you're simply adding stimulus to other muscles), and thus total systemic fatigue, cardiovascular ability, and joint stress become important variables.
-Given that the above conditions are not exceeded, getting accessory muscles as close to failure as possible without exceeding that of the prime mover will achieve greater stimulus to them, and thus they will require less accessory-focused lifts to see growth.
A decent example would be the bench press grip width you cited. Getting the triceps as close to, but not exceeding, the failure point of the pecs just gets you more out of your bench press (again, assuming cardiovascular endurance, systemic fatigue, or joint stress do not become the failure point before the pecs).
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, as I'm *well* aware there is a breadth of nuance to these considerations. Thanks for your content! It's the most concise I've seen since finding RP years ago.
As I'm scrolling through comments, I felt I should note this, in theory, should achieve a similar outcome to pre-fatiguing accessory muscles instead of modifying the compound lift.
Ex: tricep movement -> wide grip bench (as long as pecs remain the point of failure), instead of medium/narrow grip.
Pre-fatiguing the accessory in this manner would probably require a really accurate idea of your own limits ahead of time to keep the pecs as the failure point though. Really tricky to execute in practice.
Yes, I guess what you are saying makes sense. We don't the accessory muscles to limit performance BEFORE the target muscle, but training them as close to failure before reaching this point is probably beneficial. Also, we should make sure not to try and train accessory muscles closer to failure at the sacrifice of range of motion / long-muscle lengths of the prime mover 💪
@@FlowHighPerformance1 ooh good point about muscle length. Yea that definitely is worth considering on the wide vs narrow grip bench example.
Great vid on a complex and difficult sub. No one study can do this sub justice but this at least makes people think. So much negativity in the peanut gallery. If you can address this better, do it.
What do you think about wave programming for athletic performance?
Haven't heard of wave programming
I mean wave periodization, for example
week 1. week 2. week 3
5 sets x 7 reps x 100 kg. 4 x 5 x 110 kg. 3 x 3 x 120 kg
repeat + 2 %
Irrelevant but i feel like i got runners knee from lifting should i stop doing legs or go light until it heals
Go light and it should heal 👍
not a fan of how many of these studies exclusively use untrained people - often times this group has bad or no understanding of form - thus potentially leading to an influence on the studies findings. They should use a mix of both trained and untrained to cover this.
Yes, it would be great to have more research on highly trained lifters. This is much more difficult to recruit participants though 🤔
Not only that, but it's well established that untrained people can develop their muscles doing what's called in the business as little more than jack shit cause the stimulus is going to be enough for their muscles to grow anyway.
So this study's design is a bit flawed.
Theres a few issues there, itll probably be hard to consistently find advanced lifters to conduct these types of studies, one because theres simply a lot less of them, the training history may not be accurate, and advanced lifters may be less likely to participate in studies that restrict their own individual training.
Also the people looking to grow certain muscles are likely more novice/intermediate, so it makes sense to conduct studies on this group.
Thats my take away for most of these studies being conducted in thus style anyway.
But yeah, a lot of these studies are flawed and contradictory, thats why theres so many different studies saying different things.
All Arthur Jones and Mike Metzner.
❤
Could 1 rep maxes be the most anabolic compared to negatives etc? Can we have a vid about 1 rep max?
Training with in the 5-20 rep range is best for muscle growth
One rep max lifts are are fine to give you an idea of your progress. (one rep max every 4-5 mos} 3-8 reps is good for strength. "Anabolic" growth comes more from higher reps. Flyes high rep rowing and high rep squats (20 is the gold standard) Negatives are ok once in a while with a good partner and direction.
one rep maxes give you a huge risk for injury and are very taxing in terms of fatigue, if you are not a powerlifter its not worth it.
If your "accessory" muscles is lacking then use compound lifts that focused on it.
Example: chin up = more bicep
Dips = triceps
Hack squat = more quad
I'd say it depends on what muscles and exercises you are referring to. Chin ups are still going to mostly train the back. Dips can bias the triceps with the right technique. Hack squats will definitely train the quads, although I'd consider them prime movers for the lift anyway
This does not solve the problem of the bi-articular muscles, for example the long head of the triceps will have minimal work in dips
Next video: How Much Muscle Growth do you get from Growing Muscles
🤣
What if I perform a compound exercise and then immediately after do an accessory movement to take the accesory muscle to failure? For example If I do dumbell bench press and then immediately afterwards do cable pushdown for triceps which are an accessory muslcle for this movement.
The DB bench will probably be great for chest development, and the tricep work will take care of the triceps. However, the triceps training will probably inhibit the stimulus for chest on the next set of DB bench. Probably better off doing all your compounds first, then finish off any accessory muscles using isolation lifts towards the end of the workout 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 Well said!
Can u show some evidence against going to failure? (especially on a larger scale such as on a mesocycle)
Most of the evidence shows superior muscle growth training closer to failure - even for multiple weeks consecutively. However this could also be more psychologically fatiguing - especially when performed for squat & deadlift variations 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 Interesting. Tbh I watch a lot of Dr. Mike's videos and his advice is to not do RPE 10 each session but to do like RPE 7-8 in week 1 and RPE 10 in the last week. He argues that this ensures progressive overload and that going to failure on every set brings too much fatigue and thus hinders progressive overload. Long story short: is there any study that suggests being up to 3 reps shy of failure is more beneficial in any long(er) term scenario? Or does the current evidence suggest u should take each and every set to failure?
I'm sorry if I am being redundant about my questions due to brainfart or anything. I'd just like to really clarify that for myself.
I enjoy your videos a lot btw! You got my follow
I have looked into every individual study, but on average training closer to failure tends to produce slightly superior growth. That doesn't mean we should always train to failure on every set in practice (due to fatigue etc.). In general, I'd recommend training around 1-2 RIR on average 👍
@@ricos5646 Sorry to but in. RPE seems like such a subjective term. I like Dr M's vids too but I agree with flow, it seems simpler to say keep 1 to 2 RIR. Which is also subjective but simpler. Just "train harder than last time!"
No matter what I always feel arms in torso targeted exercises. Sucks. Despite that have seen gains in chest and back but its slow. Really have to force full ROM and do deficit push ups for example. On bench I feel 0 chest.
interesting. it might be worth experimenting with slightly different techniques for your chest/back exercises 👍
@FlowHighPerformance1 yeah. Inverted ring rows, deficit push ups are nicest for me personally. But pull ups and chin ups is horrible in terms of back activation for me. For delts I don't experience trouble. Feel them
Interesting. In my experience, you get better at biasing specific muscles over the years of lifting. Keep up the good work 💪
Should I count my 3 sets of incline db press towards the 10-20 sets/muscle group/week for my front delts?
I tend to only count sets for the prime mover - not for accessory muscles. However, your front delts will definitely get a good stimulus from pressing movements, so you probably dont need to do up to 20 sets. Maybe just 5-10 DIRECT sets 👍
Why even refer to them as compound movements then? It’s more or less the case that you just have to mildly involve more muscles to get work in on things like the back, chest, and quads. But at the end of the day it’s isolation and the other movers need their own isolation too.
Maybe the incline bench and deadlift get to be called compound, and you should probably pay attention to the load being placed on the back across all movements.
They are called compound lifts because they involve multiple joints
Never skip isolation work.
Agreed 👍
13:01 what if instead of 20% 1rm wasn’t performed to failure they had performed somewhere further from failure? Maybe it could be better
Possibly. But this would defeat the purposes of pre-fatigue 🤔
@@FlowHighPerformance1 i guess🤷♂️ one can only assume i imagine, lol🙏 thanks
My question is the following: Do you think I can build muscle with compounds exercises?
Of course you can 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1Okay thanks for answering❤
Yes, I started with no muscles and just did push-ups, rows, and squats and I have muscles everywhere. Just keep doing sets till failure.
@@lksnmbIn fact, the majority of your training should probably be compound movements, with some isolation work as sort of "icing on the cake."
Most of your muscle will be built with compounds, and isolations will supplement your training, if thats your goal. Muscles like arms, forearms, side/rear delts, usually need additional isolation in trained individuals. Theyd also isolate more lagging muscles when they become more advanced.
Use Isolation in the Same workout for the assisting muscles, then they will grow well.
I don't think you should say that a result shows something when it is statistically insignificant, meaning we don't know if it was by chance or is actually true. Just a small detail/ick that i notice on some science based fitness channels recently like House of Hypertrophy and this video now aswell.
that's such a nitwit take lol
I definitely understand what you're saying. I guess when it comes to this sort of research I don't always interpret findings with a strict statistical significance perspective. I often like to look at trends, but I am generally careful to mention whether this was a trend or a significant finding 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 Your vid are great alone. It's great to get differing views. argon needs to attempt a vid in this genre. Different ideas is a good thing. genau's right what a nitwit
What are the credentials of this channel please ? Thanks
Didn't realise this was a job interview. Credentials are.... I make RUclips videos....
@@FlowHighPerformance1 kinesiology, sports science, physiotherapist, strength and conditioning, personal trainer. Etc ?? . Why should people listen to you and rely on your information. It's an important question sir .
@@FlowHighPerformance1 I believe Transparency is an important aspect and shows confidence of competency in any field of expertise. Consultations for example are an opportunity for clients and professionals to pave the way forward inspired by confidence of the professional and inspiring the client .
Showing we've done the ground work regarding qualifications, experience, values and Teamwork (who we listen to).
In person or online , we are inviting people to listen to us .
Nobody said you have to listen to this information......
@@FlowHighPerformance1 sir your information seems decent along with presentation but it would be helpful to know how you obtained it .
There called synergist muscles not accessory muscles..
please forgive me 🙏
basically it is impossible to hit everything
pretty much 🤣
@@FlowHighPerformance1 so how do i train than so i can train everything
Can you make a plan for that ?
I want strength endurance coordination balance speed
If it is a plan which changes weekly it is okay
Discussing proximity to failure without the context of training style, goals etc is massively disingenuous. Otherwise going past failure every single set and every single session would be the logical conclusion, when in reality you'll typically want to sit at 1 to 3 RIR for the majority of most strength training goals and programs.
Yes, some context is required for more nuanced prescription. However, this was essentially using proximity to failure in a hypothetical scenario to estimate how much a muscle is taxed 👍
WHY ?? Does he keep saying probably? He sounds unsure .
Because in science, we can never be 100% confident in something. So based on the evidence, it is PROBABLE that x results in y 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 Thanks for reply . Your content seems well put together. What credentials do your team have ?
Practically none
Wrong
if you dont know the answer then you aint lifting to failure in the first place so this vid wont do you good 😂😂
That doesn't make any sense
tbh its annoying how you spend so much time defining terminology and explaining basic concepts. it's not like beginners to the gym watch these type of videos, it wastes a lot of time
I understand what you are saying. However, I like to make all concepts 100% understandable for any new viewers who might be coming across this information for the first time 👍
Get to the point of your title...damn
Hi, sorry you don't like the nuances of the information. If you skip to the end of the videos there is always a practical recommendations section that summarises the info 👍