Gluing Plastics
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- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2020
- We try out: JB Weld - Plastic Bonder, JB Weld - Plastic Weld, and Permatex Plastic Weld. The results are better than I expected. ...but it ain't welding. :)
Permatex Plastic Weld: amzn.to/2GiSlfm
JB Weld Plastic Bonder: amzn.to/3kPK0im
JB Weld Plastic Weld Putty: amzn.to/3oQIIG2
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Thank you for the tests on the different products. I have used JB Weld products but am impressed with Permatex..
Hey Doug, I had a similar problem 10years ago where I wanted a acrylic window added to the side of one those Polyethylene jugs, nothing wanted to stick to them. I found that Marine 5200 was the best, been 10 years and the bond is still strong and seals great.
Testing.
The best way to get a feel for real world results is test it with the environment, materials, even objects and document the results.
Great video showing the process
The barn where I boarded my horse had a plastic stock tank that was leaking. We used some of the putty type material to plug the leak from inside the tank while it was still filled with water. Worked great. Not under pressure and no one is prying at it with a knife or other devices so it may not be a comparable example but if you've got an accessible leak on a water container it would be worth having.
Kept my interest till the end, well done!
The stuff you used at first JB Weld Plastic Bond, we working on a modern Club car golf cart the other day. They put steel bolts into plastic, the previous owner used it at a mud part, so the steel bolts have rusted to the plastic. We drill the bolt and plastic it, went got some thread in wood inserts, a bunch tubes of the JB Weld, filled in the cavity with the plastic with the JB Weld Plastic Bond, inserted the wood nut with a bolt with a fender washer on it, and let it cure over night. The day we was able to bolt everything back on the golf cart, and my buddy grandkids rode it until the batteries went dead yesterday on Thanksgiving Day.
J-B Weld is amazing product ❤
Thanks Doug for the video of the various plastic glues. Don't use them much since I mostly work with wood. As Leif mentions below you may find different glues specifically for the type of plastic you have. Of course then you have to catalog all of your different plastics and have a glue for each one and who wants to do that? Take care, stay well and keep keeping' on.
Having different types of glues for different plastics is no stranger than having different kind of welding rods (or wire) for different metals (or alloys) you want to weld. From what I gather, JB Weld plastic bonder is not good for PE or PP, which I think shows in the video where is seems he is only getting a little adhesion due to aggressive scuffing of the surface of the tank.
In addition to the physical abrasion with sandpaper to provide 'tooth' to the plastic surface, a quick heat up with a heat gun or torch chemically makes the surface more available to chemical bonding for glues. Don't overdo the heat. Cheap small zip ties around a plastic pipe can also provide an increased surface area for glue to grab. For pipes into hdpe containers, bulkhead fittings in high vibration environments to provide physical clamping forces.
I've used the Devcon plastic epoxy with good results fixing broken off tabs on a tail light, but it cures strong but very hard. I might have to give the JB-weld stuff a try if I need something a bit more flexible.
I think most of these adhesives for plastics have pretty strong solvents to help them bond. That also means that they have pretty limited shelf life as some solvents can pass right through the plastic packaging.
I adjusted the playback speed to 75% & caught gems of knowledge. Thank you .
I am pretty happy with locktite brand ultragel superglue, yes its a small package but it tends to just work
Hi Doug,
I think the cans you are gluing to is HDPE (High Density Poly Ethaline) a fantastic plastic but very slippery and almost impossible to stick anything to however you can weld it with a relatively low heat and the fumes aren't as dangerous as most plastic fumes. I even have an oven in my workshop to melt HDPE to make plastic feet for tables and chairs. HDPE is also number 2 in the recycling triangle you get on most plastics. Personally for your two plastic cans I would use a mechanical plastic pinch fitting, I don't think any glue would last very long. Good luck whatever you do decide to do.
Latex paint can be left in it's roller tray with roller, inside a trash bag, twisted shut and stored in the refrigerator for several weeks without drying.
Really convenient during long painting projects; alot easier to stop and start.
This I've never tried
Another thing you can do to PE or polyethylene plastic to increase it's ability to take paint or glue, is to heat treat the surface. This involves inpinging a flame on the plastic for just a few seconds to take the 'shine' off of the plastic. Propane torches are my favorite.
Oh my god thank you! I just got an electric scooter and I’m about to ‘plastic weld’ a wireless turn signal to the rear fender. Had to pick a shock resistant adhesive and JB Weld Plastic Bonder claims that. And your tip will come in handy in helping guarantee success! 👍
Yes. It works great. Once the shine is off. Flame heat it till it the surface bubbles a bit. Then you can epoxy or do as ya want
Doug, I just modeled up a pex fitting to connect to a tank because I couldn't find one anywhere (3D printing in petg). It think it will work perfectly for what you are doing here. You drill a 3/4 hole in the tank and it has an o-ring seal on the inside with a threaded shank and wing nut on the outside. Let me know if you are interested.
You can use fiberglass mesh , wire and hose clamps in combination with epoxies. Also maximum adhesion may take a week on some. There are also industrial adhesives you cannot buy off the shelf at home Depot.
You could also buy a vacuum sealer, they are usually for food, but should work with Adhesives very well too.
Informative helpful instructive 👍💯
Mr. Sticky's One Two Glue $3.10 from TAP plastic is the only adhesive I've found that works on polypropylene (typical of gas, and water cans). Beware you must follow the directions or it won't work. I've used it fixing gas cans, diesel cans, canoes, etc.
U can enhance bonding by decreasing surface energy with a flash of blue flame (propane) prior to bonding. Also think 5200 will outperform any of these thermoset resins.
since the abrasion seemed to improve the grip on plastic so much, I wonder if you could icepick a few little holes at different angles to give it an even better anchor
Panel Bond witch is an auto rebuild product And Marine-Tex which I swear by. Every fishing boat in Alaska knows Marine-Tex.
Did you think of trying modeling glues? They bond plastics really well and have all types.
There is a company called Gator guards and they have a formulated adhesive that will bond HDPE
The two plastic container are probably made of HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene). I have used an electric paint striper to weld prices together. They make also make a “welder” which blow hot air on to the HDPE to melt/weld it together.
KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is the best saying a engineer ever taught me
What about the ultraviolet light stuff...never used it but have watched a lot of vids on it..looks good
That was awesome, I get so confused with all these JB brand adhesives. Still don't know which one will be best for a plastic cracked bumper, but I'm partial to the putty.
i see its been a year ago,but if your bumper is still cracked, its best to get either a soldering iron, wood burning iron, or similiar, put the plastic together as best you can, then duct tape it together from the outside to hold it in place. use the iron on the inside to melt the plastic along the Crack and blend it together.
What about that new glue that is somewhat similar to the bonding agent dentists use & which is activated by ultraviolet light?
Have a look at milliput I bought 10 packs years ago I've used it for bonding glass to metal glass to plastic I don't even have to scratch the surfaces just bang what ever I need to fix in a dishwasher to glean it quick wipe down with brake cleaner and good to go
Thank you sir
would be interesting to see how well it stands up against a long cure two-part resin used in fiberglassing...
(if you REALLY need it to absolutely hold, a strip of fiberglass cloth, across the tubing, should hold up to just about anything you'd want to thru at it....
Have you ever tried 3M 5200? I had the injection pump changed out when the warranty ran out on my Dodge Cummings engine and they cracked the timing case flange and it started to leak. I took some of the 5200 and plugged the crack, put over 200k on it and never leaked. I've also used it on the plastic Banjo fittings on chemical spray systems with good luck, but if you use the 5200 on the threads don't expect them to ever come apart again. If you want them to be able to come apart use the 3M 4200 instead. The 5200 is what is used for joining the hull and deck plate on fiberglass sail boats. Just FYI.
Great video, that Permatex should be advertised as an aluminum adhesive .Acetone will create brittleness and cracks in some plastics ..my experience has shown isopropyl alcohol works best for cleaning
Fusor 143 is my go to
Welding is maybe an acceptable term for glues that use solvents to liquify the surfaces, but they only work on styrenes and vinyls (ABS, PVC etc)
Welding is specifically applicable to materials that result in what is literally a single material afterwords (fusion of the materials), whereas adhesives cling onto and into the material at hand, but (normally) don't change the actual material at all.
Plastics are really hard to use adhesives on because the material is so flat/slippery at microscopic scales that glues cant get their grip. Plastic welds however, can work better because they have chemical processes that penetrate and bond the materials together.
All that in mind, depending on the welded material in question, the weld may be stronger or weaker, it all comes down to context. (and that you don't have a scummy company calling an adhesive a weld when it should be morose called a glue)
Polyolefins are almost Impossible to glue. When fabricating you typically weld them. There is a high voltage corona surface treatment sometimes used to allow glue to work. Also etching with hydrofluoric acit. And some people say a pretreatment with a propane torch helps, but has never worked for me. In your case just use mechanical bulkhead fittings with boring or rubber washers.
Damn auto correct, *acid, *oring
I had a customer bring a printed circuit board to me for repair , he had used something called liquid solder. Granted it looked like solder but it was just plastic. I had to explain the difference between conductive and non-conductive material , I don't know if I ever convinced him.
Hmmm. I'm thinking to get one of these for automotive use. Like plastic trims.
The reason why some of your plastic bonds are not lasting is, you used Acetone to "Clean" the area. Acetone cause "Micro-cracks" in the plastic which do not show up unless you have a microscope. Hence, your bond is not breaking, the plastic around the bond is breaking.
You weld it using a nitrogen torch. Look into panel bond 2 part epoxies for automotive body repair. 3m 8115 panel bond when used correctly can be used as replacing factory spot welds
Flame pre treatment is the way to go for "fatty" plastics like PE and PP. Requires no hard to get chemicals and everybody has a blow torch. Just slightly burn the surface with an oxidizing flame, rub it with alcohol and then you have about one hour to apply the glue before the surface goes back to its original fattiness.
The thing with gluing plastic, is what kind of plastic you're trying to glue. Polypropylene, which is more or less the teflon of plastics and coded in the US as recycle #5, usually requires specialty epoxies that chemically heats it up before it sets. ABS glues won't even work that well. Even sanding can only help so much with certain plastics. Polypropylene is your trash cans and usually water/liquid containers.
Look up "polypropylene glue" specifically.
Check out West System G/flex. Hit the plastic with a torch to lightly oxidize it before applying the epoxy. The oxidized plastic bonds better to the epoxy to bond better.
Most plastic glues are polyurethane based...that stuff sticks to anything. In a pinch you can use insulating spray foam....dispense a little ball of it and stir to release most of the foam's bubbles then quickly apply to the joint.
havent seen Betsy for a while!hope ur all doing good!
If we had to put a float sensor in a tank, the sensor had a rubber 'tube' on the threads, you could insert the float from the outside and tighten it up to compress the rubber and make a good seal, it may e another idea for you
Make a connector with a flange that's smaller than the hole and rubber tube, aadd a nut, insert and tighten, then you can screw your pipe fitting on.
Water companies and plumbers use expanding rubber bungs to seal pipes (didn't you use one for the rov test chamber ? )
Superglue should last longer if stored in a dessicant
Many years agou when 'cyanolit' was introduced, it came in a small applicator that was inside a pot with a dessicant tablet inside the lid ;)
Plastic type 4 from a broken appliance part, what glue? I.e. a fridge water dispenser lever.
Usw a lot of plastic weld, stuff works well and can be sanded 24hrs later
Use a soldering iron and weed eater string and weld the fittings in.
Try the West System G Flex. I haven't yet found a surface it wont bond for me. "G/flex Thickened Epoxy Adhesive is a toughened, versatile, 2-part epoxy for permanent waterproof bonding of plastic, fiberglass, ceramics, metals, damp and difficult-to-bond woods."
Would a food saver do the trick in keeping the air out?
Doug, I’ve been in the industrial glue space for 26 years. The carboys are polyolefin, prob HDPE. Nothing sticks to PO’s, superglue and a primer gives you a fighting chance, but add in water, then you are in trouble with superglue. The tube you are using to test looks like nylon. That’s another trouble maker. Very crystalline. If you want to talk smart about glue, we can figure out how to hook up.
7:50 Put the plastic wrapped epoxy/adhesive in a Ziploc bag along with the original packaging/instructions and you're good to go!
i wonder all this has reaction with petrol? was thinking to make a custom air filtter plate for my motorbike... i hate use sponge filter...
What glue works best for plastic to wood? Outdoor use. I've got mosquito netting for my raised bed hoop house. I need to glue it to the wood to prevent the bugs from getting in
I'd try a few different things. Silicone might work fine. It stick to wood well and it's gooey so you could press the netting into it.
@@SVSeeker ok thank you!
Dredging up what little chemistry I can remember, success of gluing plastic is all about surface energy. Polypropylene, HDPE, etc. are “low surface energy”, ie. a bitch to glue. However, I think there are chemical activators that can effectively increase the surface energy for a given plastic. I had some glue that could do polypropylene if you scribbled on it with the accompanying marker pen, containing the activator. Googling “surface energy” and “glue’]” looks like 3M do know something about it.
And, in my (limited) experience, those epoxy putties don’t last long, even in a nice sealed box. The layers slowly diffuse into each other and you get a crusty gunk at the interface. I did get some cheap “single serving” six packs that lasted better than the sticks, but still... And the mixing process wrecked my manicure ;)
Have you heard about SUGRU ,it's a self vulcanizing rubber glue. I don't think it would work on this , but i has a lot of uses.
Sugru is RTV silicone putty. It will not bond to those plastics even a tiny bit. I use HDPE bottles to mix silicone rubbers for casting and it has zero bond strength when removing the cured waste.
Have you tried hot glue? Stuck several glue bottles down to foam anti tip bases to test. I was able to peal it off the mystery plastic superglue bottle (#7 Code) and Acrylonitrile-chlorinated polyethylene-styrene (#10 Code) Tacky glue bottle. Glass worked better with a little sanding on the bottom.
I have and on plastic it's ok if it's just a temporary thing. I love it from making cardboard templets.
I use gorilla glue construction adhesive on my kayak works grate on plastic
are there any products that intend to do the same thing but that actually become "one" with the parts that are boing joined together? kind of like with plumbing
Nothing I know of. Wish there was.
Marine Tex best stuff money can buy we use it in the Machining industry
JB Weld is decent for an adhesive you can easily get at any hardware store but if you want the best adhesive for you application 3M is the only brand you need to look at.
Soldering gun and compatable strip of base material
When putting it in the freezer put it in a zip lock bag.
You can weld plastic with ultrasound. You just need an expensive tool.
you can weld it with heat too, but the margin between melt and burn is fine. They have to be the same plastic though if you want good crosslinking, and different densities (e.g. HDPE to PEX) would complicate the procedure because the higher densities melt at slightly higher temps. Overall, the skills needed are probably comparable to glassmaking
3:00 I thought you were about to do a Tot style taste test.
Many epoxy components don't like to freeze, like West System... Fridge perhaps, not the freezer
ur right -cool is good enough 4 a few hours ,its heat activated
I fix a lot of different types of plastics you can buy a adhesion promoter or you can pass a profane flame over substrate just about one second to 6inches not enough to introduce any heat
And apply glue within 20 min.
The clay stuff works best for filling holes and cracks in plastic.
I tried the JB plastic "weld" and the shelf life was miserable - about a few months! By the time I got to use it, it turned to stone. never did try it.
sanding the spot first and clean the surface with acetone any epoxy will stick much better.
Project Farm has entered the chat lol
Pretty much nothing will stick to hdpe. You'd have to friction weld it, or use a soldering iron.
Absolutely correct... It's not a weld. Hell.. it's not even glue. It's epoxy.
doug , fyi the Vietnam boat channel has a short translation in the description.
Tur seu Vietnam fishing boat😂😂😂😂😂😂❤️
Different plastics have different characteristics and cannot be bonded in the same fashion. What you were bonding, the plastic two also makes a huge difference in what products to use. You need to use the proper adhesive for the type of plastic you are bonding. Most "plastic" adhesives don't work well for HDPE, LDPE. Certain polyethylene's can almost be impossible to bond. Many plastic adhesives don't work well for metals. When bonding plastic to metal, try using a combination of the proper plastic adhesive for the plastic side and CA glue for the metal side.
With thousands of types of plastics it seems you need to be more specific on which you choose. Those containers and that pipe are both very difficult to glue.
Which one dried the hardest like real plastic?
Oh that's a long time ago. But I think they all dried as hard as pine wood.
"Locktite" has a product for polyethylene.
If you use acetone on plastic, it can it brittle.
It looks as though your trying to bond to a polypropylene container and I believe their are no solvents that will attack it for a bonf
Welding plastic is more Than a science 🤞
How about Martha Stewart’s good old fashioned “HotGlue”
Do it right. Take two fender washers stuff them drill large hole and 24hr Jbweld them together with a C clamp that will fit in the filler hole. then screw a hose fitting on with seals. easy as pie.
Polyethylene and polypropylene dont mix well with most adhesives, there are some industrial solutions but you have to order them.
Unfortunately PE (Poly Ethylene) and PP (Polypropylene) are both the most used plastics AND very hard if not impossible to glue...
Both plastics can be welded though using a zip tie as a "welding rod" and a a soldering iron as the localized heat source...
Have you thought about PVC glue
Here's a list I came across a while ago regarding solvent welding plastics.
A "Y" indicates that the solvent will dissolve the plastic in question.
A "N" indicates that the solvent is not recommended for use with that plastic.
Either it does not dissolve the plastic at all or does so poorly.
Polymethyl methacrylate (Acrylic)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): N
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): N
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Polyacetal (Delrin - POM)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): N
- Acetone: N
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): N
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Cellulose acetate butyrate (Butyrate)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Cross-linked low density polyethylene (PEX)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y (at 100%)
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: N
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Low density polyethylene (LDPE)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): N
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
High density polyethylene (HDPE)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): N
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Ultra high molecular weight polyethylene (UHMW)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): N
- Acetone: N
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: N
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Nylon
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): N
- Acetone: N
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): N
- MEK: N
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): N
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Polycarbonate
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Polyester (Polyethylene terephthalate - PET)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: N
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): N
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Copolyester (Polyethylene terephthalate glycol - PETG)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Polypropylene
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: N
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Polystyrene
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
Polyvinyl chloride (PVC)*
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): Y
- Acetone: Y
- Cyclohexanone: Y
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): Y
- MEK: Y
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): Y
- Tetrahydrofuran: Y
*Includes PVC in pipe and flexible tube, as well as CPVC as we use it, since our CPVC is simply Copper-sized PVC
and not Chlorinated PVC.
Teflon (TFE)
- 1,2 Dichloroethane (Ethylene dichloride): N
- Acetone: N
- Cyclohexanone: N
- Dichloromethane (Methylene chloride): N
- MEK: N
- Methyl benzene (Toluene): N
- Tetrahydrofuran: N
Great list!
However, very strange about HDPE as that is what I have stored some of my acetone in for the last 5 years. That may be a typo. A lot of chemicals are stored in HDPE containers.
@@Marcoosianism Agreed
Its adhesive!
Don't envy you, HDPE is a bitch to glue. Apparently 3M ScotchWeld is the business
You really need to give epoxy like at least 3 days to cure. And better if you wait a week as it can still gain strength.
Doug,
I believe ABYC is independent. They sell nothing. Just recommendations based on best practices.
Keep up the great work
You have not looked at who is on the Board of Directors? It's like putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop. : )
Ward's Marine Electric
National Marine Distributors Association
Mercury Marine
Ocean-Bay Marine Services
Dometic Marine Americas
BoatUS
Marine Trades Association of Maryland
Power Products
AIM Marine Group
...
Scoring the plastics with a razor in a criss cross pattern and cleaning with 91 percent rubbing alcohol helps any epoxy work better ...
3m 5200 is the sure bet to glue most anything.
Doug, Didn't you watch the movie TREMORS..."Its got to be foil. Plastic is not and oxygen barrier". LOL Just kidding but moisture is likely the biggest issue with plastic glues and plastic wrap will do just fine.
It's not "glue" just like it's not "paint". It's an epoxy adhesive.
If those tanks are Polyethylene, they don't take well to Resins, Adhesives or Glues. That's why Polyethylene works so well resisting Petroleum and Chemical Products. The best way to seal fittings and the like is with a compression fitting using an O-Ring or Gasket, or by welding with an Iron as Polyethylene is a thermo plastic and can be welded. How well the fittings would take if welded, to the PE if they're not PE would have to be an experiment...