I have a small collection (started this year) and apparently your tastes are like mine. What you two love, I'm usually interested (or already bought), and what you dislike, normally are games that don't grab my atention.
Crazy to diss castles of burgundy. Game as a 2 player heads up has so much replayability yet with such a straightforward ruleset. Have approx 200 plays over the last 5 years. Number one game for this category for me is oathsworn.
People often forget that "cons" for games carry different weights for different players, and those preferences can be the difference between an all-time favorite and getting rid of it. Glad it has served you so well! -Ryan
For that reason (and as mentioned) I think the success of Spirit Island may lie in its ability to be ”fine tuned”. When I teach it I’m careful about what spirits people play and at what difficulty. Sadly, getting those choices wrong has created poor experiences for people who may otherwise have enjoyed SI.
Hey guys, love your videos and I think these type are just as informative and entertaining as talking about games you love. Like most things in life, it takes time and experience to discover what you really like. And it is always surprising how different others can be to yourself! I love Agricola and Grand Austria Hotel like you guys but also love Meadow, the King is Dead, and Viticulture. For me, it depends on who I'm playing with and the mood I'm in and the itch a particular game scratches. Sometimes I want the planning and intensity of Agricola, the cruel randomness and the feeling of too many things to do in GAH, but other times I want the non-obvious-mind-bending plays of the King is Dead, the joy of getting the right cards in Meadow (and beautiful tableau) or pipping someone at the post in Viticulture after you both have cranked up your wine engines. While some games are objectively bad, as you said, none of the games on your list fall into this category. Keep up the good work!
Very thoughtful analysis. Totally agree about Viticulture & Scythe. RE Spirit Island: you were right that you should have ramped up the difficulty. We usually play on level 3 or 4 for the "hump" to come at the right moment (i.e. the end)-otherwise, we just lose outright. But yes, we've also experienced the conflict of interest when someone says "I can destroy these cities in the ravage phase" and then (because of someone else's effect) realizes "oh, never mind, I can't because you stopped them from ravaging." It is my No. 1 favorite game of all time, though, so you're also just flat out wrong. :)
Haha I certainly had games where we tuned the difficulty right, but it definitely gets harder to estimate when you are playing with different groups. I can definitely see why it is an all-time favorite for some many people, there were just a few reasons it didn't fully land for my personal tastes. 🙂 -Ryan
I agree 100% about the card randomness of Viticulture being the deciding factor in the game. Been playing on BGA and the times I've won it's because I get high value red and high value white cards in the first draw, extra points for minimal effort with a visitor card like the bottler, and easy to fill wine orders the one or two times I go for those cards. When I lose it's because another player is the one to get all those advantages... Or the scenario that you described happens. For example the last game I played even though I filled the most wine orders, another player won because they got 11 points total with a bunch of great visitor cards. In the final year they played 2 cards that allowed them to discard a single wine. One for 4 points and another for 3 points and played another card where they could pay other players to get 2 points. That was 9 points in the last year. Anyone in the game who drew those cards would've won. So yeah not sure If I'm going to play that one again anytime soon.
Yeah it's really interesting how two games can be just as lucky, but it feels a lot different depending on how that luck presents itself. Having the luck obscured a bit by having the player work it into their strategy tends to feel better than a random draw that just immediately rewards points, even if they both have an equal influence on the outcome. -Ryan
And for posterity want to add that I think Viticulture is a decent game and would play again just would rather focus on other games with a little less randomness or randomness that I'm ok with LOL. Also I looked at rankings and the top players have 500-600 ELO so there are clearly ways to work around the random card draws I just don't know them...
Just stumbled across your channel and enjoyed this video! My wife and I enjoy Viticulture as a two player game but definitely agree that the race to finish can often leave the ending feeling a bit anticlimactic and I’ve always thought the money could have been part of the scoring since the entire game is about running a vineyard/winery. I wonder how it would feel if the game went for one additional round after a player triggers the end game…
Yeah it's tricky having a game with multi-turn victory point conversions end suddenly... It almost feels to me like a game that would benefit from a set number of rounds, even if that goes a bit against Stonemeier's design philosophy. But there is something to be said that it is more likely that all players would have a more satisfying finish. Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Mine is definitely Earth. It just feels like work to me. I don't even get the benefits of hanging out with my friends because it's simultaneous and they're also heads-down getting their work done.
You talk about the moment you go over the hump with Spirit Island. That is one of my favorite parts of that game. That period you move from "we're in real trouble" to "we might be ok", to "oooh, we have some real power now". I love that surge feeling of when you suddenly feel the game turn for you and the combos you've built.
Gloomhaven for me. Not that I think it's bad or anything. We played it a few times and it was ok, and I can see it being enjoyable for the right people, but I do not see it as one of the greatest games of all time by any stretch. It's good, but the hooplah around this game is completely unfounded imho.
Daniel and I both played full campaigns of Gloomhaven, and while we really enjoyed it, we (or at least I) kind of felt done with it after that. I also don't think my enjoyment would have been as high without the helper app that reduced a lot of the upkeep. Hard to include on a list like this since we have played it 80+ times haha, but I think we don't esteem it as high as a lot of people do. -Ryan
I hate when people suggest that "buying the expansion fixes that issue", but I'm still gonna do it here. If you play Spirit Island with the Event deck, the feeling of knowing exactly what's coming goes away significantly. That's actually why a lot of people who love Spirit Island don't like the Event deck - like you mentioned, some people don't like that feeling of randomness haha.
I actually should have mentioned that I did have the Branch & Claw expansion and had the exact same theory that the event deck would help me enjoy it more. But I it still wasn't enough to swing my other concerns and while it introduced "unexpected" changes, there just isn't much breadth in the types of scenarios that can come from the colonist system, so it continued to feel a bit same-y to me. I definitely see why so many people love Spirit Island though! -Ryan
@RollsInTheFamily Makes sense! Not every game is for everyone. I definitely agree with the end being anti-climactic, but the middle and early part of the game is so fun for me that I don't care. I definitely agree on Scythe and Viticulture, and would throw Wingspan in as another very popular Stonemaier game that is ok but nowhere near as good for me as everyone seems to think. All are great more so in theory than in practice imo
@@RollsInTheFamily You gave it a full try, then. I respect that. I think that the dialing up the difficulty and/or complexity so that you'll either lose or win near the final turn makes it worthwhile. One of the joys of the game for me -- which I generally play two-handed solo -- is seeing how different spirits play against each other. Of course -- having the bajillion different spirits and aspects makes so many more places to explore.
I can definitely see how playing two-handed solo would solve the issue of players coordinating since you get to mastermind all the synergies between spirits. Ultimately, still a game I enjoyed my 17 plays of and rate a 7.5/10, but wasn't an evergreen game for me personally. -Ryan
Yea issues here are directly related to not having the expansions. It is totally understandable to roll your eyes when you hear " you need the expansion" but branch & claw is a must
I think that Ryan and Daniel are right. Ultimately, Scythe is a mathy, puzzle game. You should not do whatever you want to do if you want to win. I like it because it disguises the mathy aspect of the game into a seemingly cold war, conflict-ladden game.
It's one of those games that I can see being great for a lot of people, but it just doesn't quite land for us. 🤷♂️ Which I guess is true of most of the games in this video haha. -Ryan
Good explanations as to why you don’t like certain games. I agree with you on most of your list. I also love how you say how many times you play a game. That context is necessary for me to see how much a reviewer knows the game. For you to play Spirit Island 20 times to try to find what it is you don’t like about it, helps me to understand why I don’t like it too. The Castles of Burgundy and Azul are much loved games in my family.
Great idea for a video, I clicked just to hear your opinion on Spirit Island. It never sounded interesting to me, but I caved and bought Horizons of Spirit Island. Glad I own it, but my guesses were confirmed - it’s not going to be one of my favorites. Sleeping Gods Distant Skies is the game that I would put at the top of my list. I thought it would be about exploration but you are punished nearly every time you explore. It’s not the enemies that concern me, it’s all of the locations with text like “test (large number), if you fail take 5 damage”. The game seems to go much better when you stay on the rails that it implies exist.
Doesn't hurt to try Spirit Island if you already own it! Can often be a thin line between liking and loving a game that boils down to really personal reasons. -Ryan
Big feld fan here. I have played CoB over 300 times and still think it´s amazing. Considering the new expansion and updated version this one is in the top five for me for sure.
I also bounced off of Viticulture. I enjoyed my first few plays well enough, but liked it less and less as I played more, and the new iterations did not help. For me, the biggest issue is the worker placement isn’t tight enough. I want my worker placement games to have more tension. It is a little heads down for my taste. I’m not that worried about where you go because there is often an extra space, or I have a grande worker (if you are using it).
I bounced off my initial play of viticulture hard - I drew only red grapes and white contracts or vice versa and didn't know any strategies to play around that, so I felt that I was stalled for a long time with nothing I could do to work towards the apparent goal of fulfilling contracts and that viticulture is a game about starting cards and hoping you get good ones. I've revisited the game since and been able to engage better, but I've still not played it a lot.
In a world with infinite time to play games I'd probably play games way more before making a decision, but in this case it felt pretty clear that I preferred GWT and they are similar enough that I wasn't going to hold onto both. 🤷♂️ Just realized that each additional play of Maracaibo would be a time not playing GWT again. All personal preference though. 🙂 -Ryan
Agree with everything except Castles of Burgundy top 5 for me so much variation with all the expansions looks like you only ever played base it’s great at two and three four is a bit of a grind. I understand that you liked it but I understand the unmitigated love it gets and the upgrade just smokes. Great video keep it up. Cheers.
We only played the original back around 2011, so it would be interesting to see what we'd think of some of the expansions added with the new edition! Probably not something we'll get the chance to try unless someone we know has it. Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Canvas is one that has grown on me for what it is and still feels pretty unique in my collection. It's nice to be so spoiled for choice in modern board gaming that everyone can find plenty that's right for them. -Ryan
Diasgree on The King is Dead. I enjoy the abstract strategy aspects of the game where you are battling but with less direct aggression since it coul hurt yourself, too, if you're not careful. If you think your opponent has put themselves in too good of a position, you can also bring France in to change endgame scoring and end it immediately. It's always been a blast for me at 2P, but it is also meant to be crunchy. Awkward Guests is a bit fiddly to set up and the complaints about card swapping are valid, but the card swap mechanic is meant to incentivize you to trade with multiple people or to track who traded what. Yes, you WANT to give out junk information, but one man's trash is another man's treasure. My only real complaint about the game is that it usually ends by a "I've got to guess before this other person who knows what happened does," since that's not as interesting as "Yes, I know who did it" to me, anyway. But that's a problem with most all deduction games. Mostly agree with your takes on other games, though.
Definitely fair points, it just goes to show how narrow the line can be between liking and loving a game depending on personal preferences! Thanks for sharing your experiences. 👍 -Ryan
A couple of these were painful to see appear on the list. But I persevered to the end! 6 of them I actually agreed with, 4 of them I'd like the opportunity to educate you boys on your mistakes. But a great video, thanks for making it!
@@RollsInTheFamily That will have to remain a secret for now. However, I would've added Gloomhavens (both) to the list. People love that puzzle-crawl. But I really didn't get much enjoyment out of it.
Interesting difference right off the bat...I don't ever have an interest in great Western trail. Maracaibo is a favorite of mine. Would never turn down a play.
I completely agree with Viticulture. Tuscany changes up the massive randomness A LOT. But it still remains one of the main reasons I don't overly like the game. There should be NO additional VP on cards. The game is already a race! Scythe I kind of agree, but for different reasons. I just find the asymmetry too swingy. There are better factions and better boards than others. Meadow I actually prefer to Everdell, which I dislike for a similar reason you mentioned. Everdell takes FAR too long and overstays. Meadow doesn't do that at all, but it's a similar thing in a lighter package. I am always happy to get out Meadow. CoB I really like, but I don't think I could play the original ugly as ass version over the new ones. The game is just so unique and satisfying to pull off combos.
Haha all of our games were with the original edition Castles of Burgundy... certainly not a looker, but we didn't mind that too much. Games have definitely gotten a lot more deluxe and premium in the years since it came out back in 2011! Which is great, though I miss some of the less premium prices lol. -Ryan
Haha! After 17 plays it landed at an 8/10 and ultimately left my collection. 🤷♂️ Would happily play again though, especially with the fancy new edition! -Ryan
A few super popular games that really didnt click with me are Root, Gloomhaven, Dead of Winter and Terraforming Mars. But it would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.
My list might be a bit odd, but I generally stick with “family” weight games, so they land between 1-2.5 weight on BGG. 1. Forest Shuffle - This may have been from the expectations around the game, but it was always described to me as a gateway style of game. I think this is not good for this role, as every card has about 6 symbols minimum, and many of the colors are similar so all the info isn’t apparent. I also felt there was almost “too many” choices, and it left me with a feeling of everything being overwhelming. 2. High Society - There was no moments of “wow”, and generally gameplay felt very meh. 3. Beyond the Sun - This one was a 50/50 for me. The design of the skill tree and resource gathering was great, my issue was with the planet system. It seemed to be tacked onto the rest of the game, didn’t feel like it fit in very well. 4. The Captain is Dead - On the surface it had choices, but every turn boiled down to “well I guess we have to do this, or we lose”.
Thanks for sharing, Forest Shuffle seems to be pretty hit or miss, I'd like to try it sometime. Beyond the Sun is another one that I've had my eye on for a while, would be interested to see how it lands for me. -Ryan
Unfortunately Branch & Claw is a must for spirit island. They were designed together but later separated due to cost reasons. Spirit is a 10 for me with expansion but 7 at most without. This is more essential than Forsaken Lore expansion for Eldritch Horror. I was never a fan of euros but Viticulture is the only euro that stayed. I have tuscany and rhine valley expansion and can say tuscany is not essential. The Rhine Valley expansion on the other hand is a must. I would have sold the game if this fixing expansion didn't exist. It literally replaces both visitor decks to cut out free VP directly from cards and rewards VP towards making wine. The game totally shifts from random card spam free VP to strategic wine making. I believe designer Jamie doesn't want to admit that this is a fix so he promotes it as a variation for the game but everyone knows its a fix to a broken game
Branch & Claw wasn't enough to save Spirit Island for me, though I did like what it added. The Viticulture ecosystem of products is really confusing haha. -Ryan
Wow, your first 4 picks! I cannot agree more with. Sagrada, for the same reason as Azul, I truly dislike. I prefer Trajan and In the Year of the Dragon over Castles of Burgundy. Meadow is beautiful and relaxing, but nothing special (I prefer it over Splendor, though). Spirit Island, otoh, is one of my 10 favorite board games of all time. My list of overrated games would include: Ark Nova, Splendor, Arkham Horror LCG, Wingspan and Gloomhaven. - Edit: I need to add Pandemic (whichever version) and also I agree with you about Scythe and Viticulture. Btw: you should try Spirit Island with events and (some) scenarios and you'll see that you cannot predict a lot of things anymore.
Forgot to mention that I did indeed have the Branch and Claw expansion for Spirit Island, but it didn't swing the experience enough for me to keep it. 🤷♂️ Always interesting to see where tastes overlap and diverge, definitely some games we like on your overrated list. 😉 -Ryan
Oh wow! This is how I feel about games like SecretHitler and Salem… The game becomes everyone arguing and can get quite heated. THAT is certainly NOT fun to me!!! And after that, is any trivia games where my husband will 99% win. Wits and wagers is ok, cause it gives the rest of us a chance, so I’m ok with it. (But will not ever be my personal choice).
Well, you know what, I hate Agricola! jk ;) I actually really like Agricola, just needed to hurt you after you put Scythe on this list. Great video guys!
Haha it's always hard to "yuck on other people's yum" as we love how there are board games for everyone, but every once in a while it feels worth sharing our less positive experiences. Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Im sorry, i don't see much sense in this video. If there are so many kind of games, it's because there is a lot of gamers' profiles. And the group you play with has a certain alchemistry, that mixes all profiles. Name any polular game, and ask yourself, if there are not 15-20 % of gamers that don't like it.. because too complex or too simple, too long or to short, too mechanical or with too much randomness... IMO a game that is popular for let say 3/4 of the gamers.. for years. is a good game; maybe not for me.. but who cares?
Ha, we do try to focus most of our efforts on talking about games we enjoy, but hopefully trying to articulate reasons why certain games didn't work as well for us can help others determine if it would be a good fit for them. You're totally right that everyone's tastes will be different, our experiences are just one data point that some may find interesting or helpful. 🙂 -Ryan
I personally enjoyed found this video very helpful. I'm relatively new to board games, but have discovered I tend to enjoy the same types of games as Ryan and Daniel. I don't have much opportunity to play, so I can't try too many games and have to be careful with which I add to my collection. The only game I've played on their list was Azul, and I completely agree with their thoughts. These games are on so many people's top 20 lists that I want to try them all some day, but the guys did such a great job of explaining the reasons why they didn't work for them, it at least gives me a better perspective when considering purchasing them for myself.
1. Gloomhaven 2. The Mind 3. Wingspan 4. Lost Ruins of Arnak 5. Codenames 6. Magic 7. Mage Knight 8. Castles of Burgundy 9. Scythe 10. The Resistance Looks like we crossed over on a couple. Gloomhaven was fun but seemed like many other dungeon crawl games. The Mind didn't really seem like a game. Wingspan didn't seem like it had a variety of strategy, got bored of it quickly. Same with LRoA. Codenames is a lot of waiting around for 1 person to think. I'd rather play So Clover where everyone is playing.
Thanks for your list! Largely agree with your sentiments, though both Daniel and I made it through full campaigns of Gloomhaven before we burnt out on it haha. -Ryan
I thought my wife and I were the odd ones out when we played Azul are were pretty bored and unimpressed with it. Doesn’t help that like you said, these games get so hyped up. Thanks for sharing your opinions on these games!
There is a particular type of player that will find their favorite game of all time in Root, but it definitely won't be the right game for most people. I enjoyed it, but ultimately the learning curve and difficulty to get it to the table with different groups wasn't worth it for me. -Ryan
On your list: * I do like Castles of Burgundy, but it's less likely to get played than some other games, in large part because it's a pain to remember what some of those buildings do. And since those are the buildings that make or break the game, that's a problem. (Which also makes the teach difficult, of course.) If I played it a lot more, I might play it more. So to say. * Scythe gives me vibes of "Oh, the good old days of the Kulak famine." This is an art style and color text thing, but it's a real problem for me. * And Spirit Island is a game about the genocide of undocumented immigrants, so there's that. Games that I like much less than many gamers: * Puerto Rico - This is mostly a solved game, which is fine when everyone has the same skill level. But if there's one new player, the person sitting after the new player is almost certainly going to win. * Cosmic Encounter - I first played this in its original release and thought it was too random and too unpleasant to play. I'd much rather play Diplomacy, which isn't quite the knock for me as it would be for some people, but I'm unlikely to bring out Cosmic. * Codenames - It's a game. But it doesn't do anything I want done better than dozens of other games for me. * Pandemic (all versions) - Whack-a-mole for boardgamers. And Whack-a-mole isn't all that much fun, frankly. * Twilight Struggle - Almost entirely a theme thing. I lived through much of the Cold War; I don't necessarily want to relive it, especially playing as a totalitarian state bent on world domination. At least with WWII games, you get to kill murderous dictatorships whichever side you're playing. * Cascadia - I don't dislike this game, but it's not especially good looking and the game play is mostly routine. I'll play it, but I'm unlikely to suggest it.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I have a small collection (started this year) and apparently your tastes are like mine. What you two love, I'm usually interested (or already bought), and what you dislike, normally are games that don't grab my atention.
Nice! 🤝 Always cool to find content creators that have tastes that align well with your own, hopefully we don't lead you astray haha. -Ryan
Crazy to diss castles of burgundy. Game as a 2 player heads up has so much replayability yet with such a straightforward ruleset. Have approx 200 plays over the last 5 years.
Number one game for this category for me is oathsworn.
Certainly no diss, I rate it an 8/10! It just wasn't ultimately a keeper for me. 200 plays is an achievement though! 👏 -Ryan
Great content!
I agree with EVERYTHING you said about Spirit Island... and 180 plays in, it's my favorite game.
People often forget that "cons" for games carry different weights for different players, and those preferences can be the difference between an all-time favorite and getting rid of it. Glad it has served you so well! -Ryan
For that reason (and as mentioned) I think the success of Spirit Island may lie in its ability to be ”fine tuned”.
When I teach it I’m careful about what spirits people play and at what difficulty. Sadly, getting those choices wrong has created poor experiences for people who may otherwise have enjoyed SI.
Hey guys, love your videos and I think these type are just as informative and entertaining as talking about games you love. Like most things in life, it takes time and experience to discover what you really like. And it is always surprising how different others can be to yourself! I love Agricola and Grand Austria Hotel like you guys but also love Meadow, the King is Dead, and Viticulture. For me, it depends on who I'm playing with and the mood I'm in and the itch a particular game scratches. Sometimes I want the planning and intensity of Agricola, the cruel randomness and the feeling of too many things to do in GAH, but other times I want the non-obvious-mind-bending plays of the King is Dead, the joy of getting the right cards in Meadow (and beautiful tableau) or pipping someone at the post in Viticulture after you both have cranked up your wine engines. While some games are objectively bad, as you said, none of the games on your list fall into this category. Keep up the good work!
Agreed on all points, thanks for watching! 🙂 -Ryan
Very thoughtful analysis. Totally agree about Viticulture & Scythe. RE Spirit Island: you were right that you should have ramped up the difficulty. We usually play on level 3 or 4 for the "hump" to come at the right moment (i.e. the end)-otherwise, we just lose outright. But yes, we've also experienced the conflict of interest when someone says "I can destroy these cities in the ravage phase" and then (because of someone else's effect) realizes "oh, never mind, I can't because you stopped them from ravaging." It is my No. 1 favorite game of all time, though, so you're also just flat out wrong. :)
Haha I certainly had games where we tuned the difficulty right, but it definitely gets harder to estimate when you are playing with different groups. I can definitely see why it is an all-time favorite for some many people, there were just a few reasons it didn't fully land for my personal tastes. 🙂 -Ryan
I agree 100% about the card randomness of Viticulture being the deciding factor in the game. Been playing on BGA and the times I've won it's because I get high value red and high value white cards in the first draw, extra points for minimal effort with a visitor card like the bottler, and easy to fill wine orders the one or two times I go for those cards. When I lose it's because another player is the one to get all those advantages... Or the scenario that you described happens. For example the last game I played even though I filled the most wine orders, another player won because they got 11 points total with a bunch of great visitor cards. In the final year they played 2 cards that allowed them to discard a single wine. One for 4 points and another for 3 points and played another card where they could pay other players to get 2 points. That was 9 points in the last year. Anyone in the game who drew those cards would've won. So yeah not sure If I'm going to play that one again anytime soon.
Yeah it's really interesting how two games can be just as lucky, but it feels a lot different depending on how that luck presents itself. Having the luck obscured a bit by having the player work it into their strategy tends to feel better than a random draw that just immediately rewards points, even if they both have an equal influence on the outcome. -Ryan
And for posterity want to add that I think Viticulture is a decent game and would play again just would rather focus on other games with a little less randomness or randomness that I'm ok with LOL. Also I looked at rankings and the top players have 500-600 ELO so there are clearly ways to work around the random card draws I just don't know them...
Just stumbled across your channel and enjoyed this video! My wife and I enjoy Viticulture as a two player game but definitely agree that the race to finish can often leave the ending feeling a bit anticlimactic and I’ve always thought the money could have been part of the scoring since the entire game is about running a vineyard/winery. I wonder how it would feel if the game went for one additional round after a player triggers the end game…
Yeah it's tricky having a game with multi-turn victory point conversions end suddenly... It almost feels to me like a game that would benefit from a set number of rounds, even if that goes a bit against Stonemeier's design philosophy. But there is something to be said that it is more likely that all players would have a more satisfying finish. Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Mine is definitely Earth. It just feels like work to me. I don't even get the benefits of hanging out with my friends because it's simultaneous and they're also heads-down getting their work done.
We can definitely see how Earth would feel this way to a lot of people, we just happen to find that "work" pretty enjoyable haha. -Ryan
You talk about the moment you go over the hump with Spirit Island. That is one of my favorite parts of that game. That period you move from "we're in real trouble" to "we might be ok", to "oooh, we have some real power now". I love that surge feeling of when you suddenly feel the game turn for you and the combos you've built.
I totally agree that it feels great to realize that power, I just wish I didn't lose the drama of the outcome haha. 🤷♂️ -Ryan
Gloomhaven for me. Not that I think it's bad or anything. We played it a few times and it was ok, and I can see it being enjoyable for the right people, but I do not see it as one of the greatest games of all time by any stretch. It's good, but the hooplah around this game is completely unfounded imho.
Daniel and I both played full campaigns of Gloomhaven, and while we really enjoyed it, we (or at least I) kind of felt done with it after that. I also don't think my enjoyment would have been as high without the helper app that reduced a lot of the upkeep. Hard to include on a list like this since we have played it 80+ times haha, but I think we don't esteem it as high as a lot of people do. -Ryan
I hate when people suggest that "buying the expansion fixes that issue", but I'm still gonna do it here. If you play Spirit Island with the Event deck, the feeling of knowing exactly what's coming goes away significantly. That's actually why a lot of people who love Spirit Island don't like the Event deck - like you mentioned, some people don't like that feeling of randomness haha.
I actually should have mentioned that I did have the Branch & Claw expansion and had the exact same theory that the event deck would help me enjoy it more. But I it still wasn't enough to swing my other concerns and while it introduced "unexpected" changes, there just isn't much breadth in the types of scenarios that can come from the colonist system, so it continued to feel a bit same-y to me.
I definitely see why so many people love Spirit Island though!
-Ryan
@RollsInTheFamily Makes sense! Not every game is for everyone. I definitely agree with the end being anti-climactic, but the middle and early part of the game is so fun for me that I don't care.
I definitely agree on Scythe and Viticulture, and would throw Wingspan in as another very popular Stonemaier game that is ok but nowhere near as good for me as everyone seems to think. All are great more so in theory than in practice imo
@@RollsInTheFamily You gave it a full try, then. I respect that. I think that the dialing up the difficulty and/or complexity so that you'll either lose or win near the final turn makes it worthwhile.
One of the joys of the game for me -- which I generally play two-handed solo -- is seeing how different spirits play against each other. Of course -- having the bajillion different spirits and aspects makes so many more places to explore.
I can definitely see how playing two-handed solo would solve the issue of players coordinating since you get to mastermind all the synergies between spirits.
Ultimately, still a game I enjoyed my 17 plays of and rate a 7.5/10, but wasn't an evergreen game for me personally.
-Ryan
Yea issues here are directly related to not having the expansions. It is totally understandable to roll your eyes when you hear " you need the expansion" but branch & claw is a must
Interesting list. I agree with some and maybe more plays will change my mind. Oh, and Daniel-Nice Shirt!!
Thank you! Team World Vision! 💪🏼
I think that Ryan and Daniel are right. Ultimately, Scythe is a mathy, puzzle game. You should not do whatever you want to do if you want to win. I like it because it disguises the mathy aspect of the game into a seemingly cold war, conflict-ladden game.
It's one of those games that I can see being great for a lot of people, but it just doesn't quite land for us. 🤷♂️ Which I guess is true of most of the games in this video haha. -Ryan
Good explanations as to why you don’t like certain games. I agree with you on most of your list. I also love how you say how many times you play a game. That context is necessary for me to see how much a reviewer knows the game. For you to play Spirit Island 20 times to try to find what it is you don’t like about it, helps me to understand why I don’t like it too. The Castles of Burgundy and Azul are much loved games in my family.
Little did I know all those years of tracking plays would come in handy someday! 😅 Thanks for watching! -Ryan
I bounced off Forest Shuffle hard. The drafting and game as a whole did nothing to pull me back in for another play
I keep hearing polarized responses to it, haven't had the chance to try yet! -Ryan
Great idea for a video, I clicked just to hear your opinion on Spirit Island. It never sounded interesting to me, but I caved and bought Horizons of Spirit Island. Glad I own it, but my guesses were confirmed - it’s not going to be one of my favorites.
Sleeping Gods Distant Skies is the game that I would put at the top of my list. I thought it would be about exploration but you are punished nearly every time you explore. It’s not the enemies that concern me, it’s all of the locations with text like “test (large number), if you fail take 5 damage”. The game seems to go much better when you stay on the rails that it implies exist.
Doesn't hurt to try Spirit Island if you already own it! Can often be a thin line between liking and loving a game that boils down to really personal reasons. -Ryan
Big feld fan here. I have played CoB over 300 times and still think it´s amazing. Considering the new expansion and updated version this one is in the top five for me for sure.
300+ plays! 👏 Race for the Galaxy is the only game that's joined the 300 club for us. -Ryan
@@RollsInTheFamily Nice. Ark Nova is in the 1700 club. 🤣
Lol that's like over a game a day since it's been released! 😂 I'm guessing BGA is the main culprit. -Ryan
I also bounced off of Viticulture. I enjoyed my first few plays well enough, but liked it less and less as I played more, and the new iterations did not help. For me, the biggest issue is the worker placement isn’t tight enough. I want my worker placement games to have more tension. It is a little heads down for my taste. I’m not that worried about where you go because there is often an extra space, or I have a grande worker (if you are using it).
Yeah, that might have been another factor for us... we also tend to prefer our worker placement nice and tight. -Ryan
I bounced off my initial play of viticulture hard - I drew only red grapes and white contracts or vice versa and didn't know any strategies to play around that, so I felt that I was stalled for a long time with nothing I could do to work towards the apparent goal of fulfilling contracts and that viticulture is a game about starting cards and hoping you get good ones. I've revisited the game since and been able to engage better, but I've still not played it a lot.
Always appreciate your analysis and reasoning. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Maracaibo, sold after one game, is an extreme response. A very different game to GWT
In a world with infinite time to play games I'd probably play games way more before making a decision, but in this case it felt pretty clear that I preferred GWT and they are similar enough that I wasn't going to hold onto both. 🤷♂️ Just realized that each additional play of Maracaibo would be a time not playing GWT again. All personal preference though. 🙂 -Ryan
agree with azul , castles Of burgundy, whistle mountain, Maracaibo and meadow. I love Stonemeier board games
We certainly are in the minority with the Stonemeier games we mentioned! -Ryan
Agree with everything except Castles of Burgundy top 5 for me so much variation with all the expansions looks like you only ever played base it’s great at two and three four is a bit of a grind. I understand that you liked it but I understand the unmitigated love it gets and the upgrade just smokes. Great video keep it up. Cheers.
We only played the original back around 2011, so it would be interesting to see what we'd think of some of the expansions added with the new edition! Probably not something we'll get the chance to try unless someone we know has it. Thanks for watching! -Ryan
The Last Kingdom board game manages to take the central concept of The King is Dead but builds a much funner game around it.
Interesting! Definitely a fascinating design space. -Ryan
Azul and COB hurt! Games that are on my list include: canvas, libertalia, fort and viticulture. None of them left me feeling like I wanted more.
Canvas is one that has grown on me for what it is and still feels pretty unique in my collection. It's nice to be so spoiled for choice in modern board gaming that everyone can find plenty that's right for them. -Ryan
Diasgree on The King is Dead. I enjoy the abstract strategy aspects of the game where you are battling but with less direct aggression since it coul hurt yourself, too, if you're not careful. If you think your opponent has put themselves in too good of a position, you can also bring France in to change endgame scoring and end it immediately. It's always been a blast for me at 2P, but it is also meant to be crunchy.
Awkward Guests is a bit fiddly to set up and the complaints about card swapping are valid, but the card swap mechanic is meant to incentivize you to trade with multiple people or to track who traded what. Yes, you WANT to give out junk information, but one man's trash is another man's treasure. My only real complaint about the game is that it usually ends by a "I've got to guess before this other person who knows what happened does," since that's not as interesting as "Yes, I know who did it" to me, anyway. But that's a problem with most all deduction games.
Mostly agree with your takes on other games, though.
Definitely fair points, it just goes to show how narrow the line can be between liking and loving a game depending on personal preferences! Thanks for sharing your experiences. 👍 -Ryan
I’m waiting for the Castles of Ron Burgundy expansion.
Really a missed opportunity in the crowdfunding campaign! -Ryan
A couple of these were painful to see appear on the list. But I persevered to the end! 6 of them I actually agreed with, 4 of them I'd like the opportunity to educate you boys on your mistakes. But a great video, thanks for making it!
Hey, 6/10 ain't too bad. 😂 Curious which ones you found the most painful haha. -Ryan
@@RollsInTheFamily That will have to remain a secret for now. However, I would've added Gloomhavens (both) to the list. People love that puzzle-crawl. But I really didn't get much enjoyment out of it.
New to your channel and sub! Great video!👍🏻
Thanks, glad to have you here! 👋 -Ryan
Interesting difference right off the bat...I don't ever have an interest in great Western trail. Maracaibo is a favorite of mine. Would never turn down a play.
Mostly a theme preference, or something about the change in mechanisms? -Ryan
My Didn't Like top 3 > Ark Nova + Dune Imperium + Brasss Birningham > YAAAAAARK! Nooo way! (TY for this great video idea)!
I'm a big fan of all 3 of those games. 😅 -Ryan
I completely agree with Viticulture. Tuscany changes up the massive randomness A LOT. But it still remains one of the main reasons I don't overly like the game. There should be NO additional VP on cards. The game is already a race!
Scythe I kind of agree, but for different reasons. I just find the asymmetry too swingy. There are better factions and better boards than others.
Meadow I actually prefer to Everdell, which I dislike for a similar reason you mentioned. Everdell takes FAR too long and overstays. Meadow doesn't do that at all, but it's a similar thing in a lighter package. I am always happy to get out Meadow.
CoB I really like, but I don't think I could play the original ugly as ass version over the new ones. The game is just so unique and satisfying to pull off combos.
Haha all of our games were with the original edition Castles of Burgundy... certainly not a looker, but we didn't mind that too much. Games have definitely gotten a lot more deluxe and premium in the years since it came out back in 2011! Which is great, though I miss some of the less premium prices lol. -Ryan
CoB is my number one but know it's brilliance cannot be seen by everyone. LOL
Haha! After 17 plays it landed at an 8/10 and ultimately left my collection. 🤷♂️ Would happily play again though, especially with the fancy new edition! -Ryan
A few super popular games that really didnt click with me are Root, Gloomhaven, Dead of Winter and Terraforming Mars. But it would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.
Agreed on that! -Ryan
My list might be a bit odd, but I generally stick with “family” weight games, so they land between 1-2.5 weight on BGG.
1. Forest Shuffle - This may have been from the expectations around the game, but it was always described to me as a gateway style of game. I think this is not good for this role, as every card has about 6 symbols minimum, and many of the colors are similar so all the info isn’t apparent. I also felt there was almost “too many” choices, and it left me with a feeling of everything being overwhelming.
2. High Society - There was no moments of “wow”, and generally gameplay felt very meh.
3. Beyond the Sun - This one was a 50/50 for me. The design of the skill tree and resource gathering was great, my issue was with the planet system. It seemed to be tacked onto the rest of the game, didn’t feel like it fit in very well.
4. The Captain is Dead - On the surface it had choices, but every turn boiled down to “well I guess we have to do this, or we lose”.
Thanks for sharing, Forest Shuffle seems to be pretty hit or miss, I'd like to try it sometime. Beyond the Sun is another one that I've had my eye on for a while, would be interested to see how it lands for me. -Ryan
It just goes to show that not everyone has good taste in boardgames. Those people also make RUclips videos. lol
Someone's feeling chippy. 😂 I imagine there are many games we would agree on as well. -Ryan
@@RollsInTheFamily but of course.
Earth was a game that was a miss for me. I heard a lot about it and I played it and left the table with a meh feeling.
I still enjoy Earth, but I am curious whether it will be I keep long term. Still not sure. -Daniel
I agree everything they said about Spirit Island. It’s a good game but I don’t think myself enjoy it
The "liked but didn't love" crowd is a lot less vocal, so it always seems like people either love it or hate it haha. -Ryan
Meadow gave me the same feeling
Too bad, it looks so good! -Ryan
Unfortunately Branch & Claw is a must for spirit island. They were designed together but later separated due to cost reasons. Spirit is a 10 for me with expansion but 7 at most without. This is more essential than Forsaken Lore expansion for Eldritch Horror. I was never a fan of euros but Viticulture is the only euro that stayed. I have tuscany and rhine valley expansion and can say tuscany is not essential. The Rhine Valley expansion on the other hand is a must. I would have sold the game if this fixing expansion didn't exist. It literally replaces both visitor decks to cut out free VP directly from cards and rewards VP towards making wine. The game totally shifts from random card spam free VP to strategic wine making. I believe designer Jamie doesn't want to admit that this is a fix so he promotes it as a variation for the game but everyone knows its a fix to a broken game
Branch & Claw wasn't enough to save Spirit Island for me, though I did like what it added. The Viticulture ecosystem of products is really confusing haha. -Ryan
subscribed
Thanks! 👋 -Ryan
Wow, your first 4 picks! I cannot agree more with. Sagrada, for the same reason as Azul, I truly dislike.
I prefer Trajan and In the Year of the Dragon over Castles of Burgundy.
Meadow is beautiful and relaxing, but nothing special (I prefer it over Splendor, though).
Spirit Island, otoh, is one of my 10 favorite board games of all time.
My list of overrated games would include: Ark Nova, Splendor, Arkham Horror LCG, Wingspan and Gloomhaven.
-
Edit: I need to add Pandemic (whichever version) and also I agree with you about Scythe and Viticulture.
Btw: you should try Spirit Island with events and (some) scenarios and you'll see that you cannot predict a lot of things anymore.
Forgot to mention that I did indeed have the Branch and Claw expansion for Spirit Island, but it didn't swing the experience enough for me to keep it. 🤷♂️
Always interesting to see where tastes overlap and diverge, definitely some games we like on your overrated list. 😉
-Ryan
Sorry you feel bad about losing to better players in Viticulture. Bwahaha
Ha, believe it or not, I was actually on the winning side of most of those anticlimactic finishes. 😉 -Ryan
Oh wow! This is how I feel about games like SecretHitler and Salem… The game becomes everyone arguing and can get quite heated. THAT is certainly NOT fun to me!!! And after that, is any trivia games where my husband will 99% win. Wits and wagers is ok, cause it gives the rest of us a chance, so I’m ok with it. (But will not ever be my personal choice).
Social Deduction and Trivia are definitely two pretty polarizing genres haha! -Ryan
Spirit island is just ok to me
7.5/10 for me. 🤷♂️ -Ryan
Well, you know what, I hate Agricola! jk ;)
I actually really like Agricola, just needed to hurt you after you put Scythe on this list. Great video guys!
Haha it's always hard to "yuck on other people's yum" as we love how there are board games for everyone, but every once in a while it feels worth sharing our less positive experiences. Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Spirit Island is a fantastic game… that just isn’t for me. I get an uncharacteristically high amount of AP when I play it haha
Get a few AP players together and prepare for Spirit Island to take 8 hours... 😂 -Ryan
Im sorry, i don't see much sense in this video. If there are so many kind of games, it's because there is a lot of gamers' profiles. And the group you play with has a certain alchemistry, that mixes all profiles. Name any polular game, and ask yourself, if there are not 15-20 % of gamers that don't like it.. because too complex or too simple, too long or to short, too mechanical or with too much randomness... IMO a game that is popular for let say 3/4 of the gamers.. for years. is a good game; maybe not for me.. but who cares?
Ha, we do try to focus most of our efforts on talking about games we enjoy, but hopefully trying to articulate reasons why certain games didn't work as well for us can help others determine if it would be a good fit for them. You're totally right that everyone's tastes will be different, our experiences are just one data point that some may find interesting or helpful. 🙂 -Ryan
I personally enjoyed found this video very helpful. I'm relatively new to board games, but have discovered I tend to enjoy the same types of games as Ryan and Daniel. I don't have much opportunity to play, so I can't try too many games and have to be careful with which I add to my collection. The only game I've played on their list was Azul, and I completely agree with their thoughts. These games are on so many people's top 20 lists that I want to try them all some day, but the guys did such a great job of explaining the reasons why they didn't work for them, it at least gives me a better perspective when considering purchasing them for myself.
1. Gloomhaven
2. The Mind
3. Wingspan
4. Lost Ruins of Arnak
5. Codenames
6. Magic
7. Mage Knight
8. Castles of Burgundy
9. Scythe
10. The Resistance
Looks like we crossed over on a couple. Gloomhaven was fun but seemed like many other dungeon crawl games. The Mind didn't really seem like a game. Wingspan didn't seem like it had a variety of strategy, got bored of it quickly. Same with LRoA. Codenames is a lot of waiting around for 1 person to think. I'd rather play So Clover where everyone is playing.
Thanks for your list! Largely agree with your sentiments, though both Daniel and I made it through full campaigns of Gloomhaven before we burnt out on it haha. -Ryan
I thought my wife and I were the odd ones out when we played Azul are were pretty bored and unimpressed with it. Doesn’t help that like you said, these games get so hyped up. Thanks for sharing your opinions on these games!
It can be pretty hard for games to live up to the hype, but it definitely is exciting when you find the ones that do! -Ryan
3. BOT FACTORY
2. FLAMECRAFT
1. ARK NOVA 😮
Ark Nova is one of the few examples of games that I went into with tons of hype and it actually met it, for my tastes. 🙂 -Ryan
Agree with all your picks, really dislike 9 of the games on your list. Scythe however is a brilliant game. Good video guys.
Thanks for watching! -Ryan
Don't like Root at all.
There is a particular type of player that will find their favorite game of all time in Root, but it definitely won't be the right game for most people. I enjoyed it, but ultimately the learning curve and difficulty to get it to the table with different groups wasn't worth it for me. -Ryan
On your list:
* I do like Castles of Burgundy, but it's less likely to get played than some other games, in large part because it's a pain to remember what some of those buildings do. And since those are the buildings that make or break the game, that's a problem. (Which also makes the teach difficult, of course.) If I played it a lot more, I might play it more. So to say.
* Scythe gives me vibes of "Oh, the good old days of the Kulak famine." This is an art style and color text thing, but it's a real problem for me.
* And Spirit Island is a game about the genocide of undocumented immigrants, so there's that.
Games that I like much less than many gamers:
* Puerto Rico - This is mostly a solved game, which is fine when everyone has the same skill level. But if there's one new player, the person sitting after the new player is almost certainly going to win.
* Cosmic Encounter - I first played this in its original release and thought it was too random and too unpleasant to play. I'd much rather play Diplomacy, which isn't quite the knock for me as it would be for some people, but I'm unlikely to bring out Cosmic.
* Codenames - It's a game. But it doesn't do anything I want done better than dozens of other games for me.
* Pandemic (all versions) - Whack-a-mole for boardgamers. And Whack-a-mole isn't all that much fun, frankly.
* Twilight Struggle - Almost entirely a theme thing. I lived through much of the Cold War; I don't necessarily want to relive it, especially playing as a totalitarian state bent on world domination. At least with WWII games, you get to kill murderous dictatorships whichever side you're playing.
* Cascadia - I don't dislike this game, but it's not especially good looking and the game play is mostly routine. I'll play it, but I'm unlikely to suggest it.
Some hot takes there, sir. Unfortunately objectively, provably wrong for a couple of points, but the takes are hot enough to fry an egg on
@@nikolamanojlovicci Hey, I didn't mention Agricola this time. 8-)
Doug coming in hot in the comments! 😂 -Ryan