At least MOST of its shit makes fucking sense. Why everyone acts like the anime is superior in every aspect is beyond me. But UI Roshi makes no fucking sense but don't blame the dude for everyone rushing him to be done by a specific date. Also fully agree with the less is more concept, Toyo does add toooooo much detail, it gets annoying to keep up in just one page
I think we're forgetting about the most evil threat in the entire series.........SAIBAMAN
5 лет назад+68
The Gohan we saw eliminate himself with Kefla wasn't actually Gohan, but Goten in disguise The real Gohan is biding his time, waiting to unleash his Calvo Blanco form
5 лет назад+44
@Grizzexploder That's ridiculous. He obviously let himself be knocked out when Piccolo telepathically told him that El Grande Padre has a secret army to start a coup. Krillin has been secretly creating a Spirit Bomb made of Angel Ki for Gohan to absorb but Gohan must get used to the Angel ki before he could absorb it. Angel ki is different for each Angel so he could only do it the ToP. However Gohan knows that Blanco isn't enough. Krillin, Tien Shinhan, and Master Roshi told Gohan of secret Earthling exclusive transformation, Calvo. They only managed to have normal baldness but Calvo creates a perfect shine around your scalp which Krillin learns after he stops waxing his head. However Calvo Blanco requires a perfect balance of hair and baldness.
Toriyama reminds me of young Tomoya from clannad.. He does great things but really can't be bothered..
4 года назад+10
@Joshua Graham That anime (including the after story) gets so fucking sad. Never before has any piece of media made me bawl my eyes out like the Clannad anime did. Katawa Shoujo (visual novel) came close, and Gurren Lagann (anime) was the most powerful in terms of uplifting emotions, but Clannad... Damn.
I've heard that lazy people often find smarter ways of doing things with less effort. Or maybe they're geniuses that don't have to work as hard as others, so they became lazy. 🤔
i think toyotaro is trying WAY TOO HARD to make every pose dynamic and stylish where it ends up taking more priotiry than everything thats actually important to make manga pages appealing.
Yeah but at least your not a total prick , ripping into someone whonis clearly so much more successful and talented , this channel is so negative and full of drivel.
personally i like the manga's art quality despite all its flaws. i do feel like all the criticism is a bit too harsh since he's work gets compared to one of the most succesfull mangas of all time. but on the other hand, he has to recieve said critisim to improve his manga over time
I agree with constructive critism , but for this guy to then say " hey look I made the manga better " just by removing images isn't true , the original creator picked this guy , he passed the Batton on , not for RUclips views and irrelavnt critism to feed his own ego, but to continue something we all know and love. The views and critism I this video are offbase , it's typical of youtubers to name drop, critise and insult genuine content makers . Critism and insulting is the EASIEST , thing to do .
David Smith you kinda missed the point by assuming that he claims to be better than Toyotaro. He’s just merely showing less-informed fans that the artist can improve. He has potential. He just needs to focus it. Yes, his tone was a little sarcastic and mischievous but it’s used to instill a comedic and nonchalant tone; which is essential in entertaining audiences with short attention spans.
Anime is a lot more popular than manga so that's understandable, but if you want manga readers to check out the anime then you have to make the manga look good first.
Spiral Mark yet the Dragon Ball Super anime recycles scenes over and over again as well as gives us useless episodes and talking to keep ramping up the amount of episodes in the anime.
José Cavalcanti the Arc was already fucked up from the get-go. No Buu, asspulls for Goku, Hit knocked out early, Gohan “Team leader” doing nothing, Vegeta not getting Ultra Instinct yet having literally the same exact training and hardships as Goku in this arc, Frieda surviving not once, not twice, but 3 times from falling off. Android 17? Oh yeah, no one else notices he didn’t get knocked off. Kefla getting these outrageous power ups. Jiren not using his God of Destruction mode and staying calm, instead they turn him into a lunatic. I could go on.
@@natecruz7114 1. No Buu so what? Frieza is a much fan favourite character. 2. What asspulls? You're just crying and bitching. 3. Because he took on Jiren alone. 4. Because no one was listening to him. We saw that just in the start of the T.O.P 5. Because for U.I, You need calm mind _(which vegeta doesn't have)_ and surpassing your limit. Goku was the right person for U.I because not only he is a fast learner, His head is always empty. 6. Frieza survived worsier things. And why does this make this arc bad? You wanted a clichè ending? 7. #17 pretended to have *DIED* not fallen off. 8. Yeah... Kefla one is bad. But atleast we got an 'Bad explanation' for her power ups. Kale is the Legendary SSJ like Broly, So when she fuses with Caulifla, She of course will gain outrageous power boosts. But the power-boosts given to Caulifla were just the worst thing from T.O.P 9. Jiren doesn't have that... Where'd you got that theory from? Jiren wasn't gonna be a G.O.D, So he didn't received the same training as Toppo. So... Anything more?
This. This is a solid criticism that makes 100% sense. Note that it also has only 2 up votes as of this time. I think that says everything about this community as a whole.
I came here to type this exact comment. I bet his love of the anime might have effected him there as they tend to show everyone freaking out and there are times when it's done well expanding on scenes and not just toei stretching out the filler. For instance cell killing 16 was expanded in the anime and made the scene much better. But if you do it all the time, it makes the reactions feel like they aren't worth anything. And they take up space that could be used for the action, and break up the flow. I honestly feel if someone did what TNM did here it would improve the manga a lot but idk who would have the time to edit such a thing.
Ronquixote D. III That's exactly what I meant. It's like he's trying to adapt an anime into a manga and not the other way around. He should take some inspiration from Toriyamas original manga.
A lot of people might say that Toriyama isn't a good writer. Maybe. But he's amazing mangaka. He's a prime example of "Work smarter, not harder" Heck, Super Saiyan. The biggest claim to fame most people know Dragon Ball for was an example of his laziness being for the best.
5 лет назад+111
I mean, for writing exclusively on a week to week basis, Toriyama wrote a lot better than what most writers could crank out without at least a more thorough plan for the plot. Plus, only a few people could create quite as dramatic exchanges and intense moments even with better writing schedules.
@Indie Plex Awful would be a bit too far. While he can make pretty large blunders, he's still able to weave a flowing narrative with likable characters with proper motivations that can readers can emotionally resonate with. Plus when his focus is on Gag stuff, he's freaking hilarious. Dr Slump is nearly 40 years old, and it still great.
@@monkeykingw if toriyama is good at pacing I'm yet to see it. This is the same guy that cant remember how to scale his own power levels, can't scale time (namek, five minutes I think we all know) and holds jokes about panties in the highest regard of comedy. He's talented but pacing is not something he even knows the definition of.
Honestly, looking at how he uses so many panels with so many reaction shots from so many characters, it feels like it's set up like an anime. In an anime. you get a lot more detail. Where a manga might use a single panel to give the impression of the protagonist dodging a single blow, an anime could show every motion involved in dodging those attacks. Where a manga might have one character making a commentary on a situation, an anime might include other characters chiming in with their thoughts on the matter. Or in short, where manga usually leaves many gaps for the reader to fill in with their own imagination, Toyotaro seems to draw each panel to get the exact amount of detail you'd get from watching an anime.
Well, yeah but, unfortunately... We aren't watching an anime, but reading a manga. Having 12 panels in 1 page works on very specific story-telling scenarios in manga, and shouldn't be crowded unless it's really necessary, like building up a full 2 page image with barely any dialogue
4 года назад+6
That's what I was thinking. He didn't cut enough from the anime to match the panels-per-page and cleanliness of pages that Toriyama did.
He is. In the art department this video sums it up pretty nicely, and paired that with the bunch of writers that can only recycle old concepts and failing miserably in the process, this is a total trainwreck. Nishimoto is the real heir to Toriyama, at least he could do a decent manga by himself. And precisely here lies the difference, Nishimoto started as a Dragon Ball fan too, but went on and passed his fan phase and didn't cling to dojinshis and could create Naruto, Toyotaro just did dragon ball dojinshis for years and stood in the comfort zone far too long. That's why there are myriads of really good artist that can create impressive illustrations in the manga industry, but true mangakas capable of not only draw but tell a good story with good pace is like finding water in the desert. One's drawing is lackluster at best and childish at worst, but Onepunch Man and Mob Psycho 100 are master classes of storytelling and panelling. And you can always bring a good artist like Murata to put a godlike art into a great story. The day Toyoraro does his own manga and just stop copying his master we will see if it's just another doujinshi writer or a truly full fledged professional. Until then, it's the first.
@@Sakaki98 It's just that I'm tired of watching something I treasured a lot from my childhood been converted into this greedier day by day money making machine, starting reading this manga and discover that the guy that kickstarted this trend is a jackass dojinshi writer who can't do a proper manga by himself. And worst of all, the original creator gives his blessings to this cesspool because he still hasn't enough to buy an island or create a dinosaur with dna cloning or whatever he wants to do with all that money, is not like Dragon Quest isn't super popular and a much better option to see what Toriyama genuiely cares about and does miles better or something like that. Greed fucking ruined this series. Just compare the first kaioh ken or super saiyan transformation and then the festival of led lighting saiyan a la disco we have now. Still, I wish they learned a lesson with the new Broly and keep going that way, now they need to do better writing suited for a little more mature audience like it was before, young teens instead of toddlers, and we are set to a better future. Or just fucking ending it for good. All things end. And it would be wise for all to accept it. I thought back in its day that the Buu saga exceeded what it was necessary for a good manga and its popularity proves that point. Not every series must be Doctor Who or One Piece. Self containment is a concept that the author of Bakuman and Death Note said it should be more had in count in the manga industry. And I concur.
@@fordesponja The longer and longer this franchise gets milked, the more and more likely we're gonna hear (Japanese) Goku played by someone who isn't Masako Nozawa, and that frightens me. And it's bizarre, because last decade.... hell, for roughly 15 years after GT ended, Dragon Ball WAS dead and buried. It had long since ended and the industry (sans video game developers from time to time) was able to move onto something else, and yet it was well off for it, because at least then the series was very fondly remembered. Come to think of it, does this all come back to Dragon Ball Evolution? Seriously, after Hollywood put out that shitshow, Toriyama created Battle of Gods in response as a way to show them up (which, to be fair, he succeeded at by far), and needless to say, it's been a nonstop train ride ever since. Hell, even Kai initially got cancelled after the Cell arc (the Buu arc only being remastered to sell to international audiences at first), so it seemed like Dragon Ball was still facing dormancy before Battle of Gods became a thing.
@@YamatoFukkatsu I'm not for just burying whatever once is finished. There have been reboots and continuations before and there will be, but this is one of those instances that there is really nothing to add to the original work or do a twist on it, is just let's continue this like it hasn't passed 15 years because there is people willing to throw money at us for that. I pretty much prefer full metal panic fumoffu over the original, the only thing that has changed is that fumoffu is just focused on comedy, but just changing studios from xebec to kyoani gave the series another distinct tone to it. And fumoffu is just plain fanservice because the original blew up, well done fanservice like kyoani knows to do, but fanservice in the end. The dragon ball dojinshis are bad. Generally because is just emulating (failing a lot in the process) what you like and there isn't really that many artists who get stuck to those era shonens because the source material is the most basic shit in the manga industry and was surpassed decades ago. Just look the kind of expanded universe naruto or one piece offer, the character evolutions and other things and we are talking about shonen battle mangas which their authors aren't really recognized for exceptional character developement or anything of the sort. Rurouni kenshin was in its entirety a manga that clearly evolved from the late 80's shonens but goes a little more beyond, and that started in freaking 1994! Even a complete reduction to the absurdity of this style like bobobo is way more interesting and refreshing. So, it really doesn't talk well at all about this situation and toyotaro as an artist if you just can't break from a style that was old news 25 years ago. But since everyone just want the same thing over and over and gives tons of money, toyotaro is just the perfect cinderella for this overused and dirty shoe. And from the artist perspective this will just chain him more to this. I would be desperate in his place. Heck, jojo is totally different since phantom blood and you can really tell through the different parts how araki has evolved from 1982 to nowadays.
There's a video by Super Eyepatch Wolf called "The Genius of Dragon Ball". If you love analyses of frame work, then check it out. ruclips.net/video/jJK7oysHoMw/видео.html
The Tournament of Power arc in the manga is just where I completely have lost interest. It is just way, waaaaaaayyyyy too rushed. It feels like they are sprinting to the finish line just to get it done with because of how close the Broly movie is. Say what you will about the anime and power scaling in general. I'd rather have wonky power scales where a ton of characters get moments to shine than to have Kale/Kefla and Frost tank through the majority of fighters. U7 vs. Aniraza, Kefla vs. UIS Goku, Gohan/Frieza vs. Lightspeed Dyspo, GoD Toppo vs. SSBE Vegeta, ect. All of those moments made the ToP worth watching. The manga is just... bleh.
Even so, the TOP power scaling in the manga sucks too, but it’s worse than the anime. Kale destroys all the universes, and then fuses with Kefla. Then Kefla gets beaten by Gohan. Who isn’t even the strongest on his team. That either means that A) The U7 Team is in no way the underdog, and that they could destroy the other universes in an instant. B) Caulifla made the fusion weaker, which I guess might make sense. Or both.
@@lazyproductions8005 "Not by a long shot" - Totally Not Mark The scaling is worse in the anime in the sense that it's not consistent with itself, sometimes you see Goku having issues with Ribrianne as a Super Saiyan but then slapping her in base form, or using Blue to get rid of Enhanced Ribrianne even though Android 18 was able to take on an even more powerful Mega Ribrianne. Or Kale tanking Goku's Blue Kamehameha despite Controled Kale (the slim one) was stated to be stronger than her previous Berserker self, and that Kale was beaten up by God Goku, oh, and Jiren reacted to Berserker Kale, so he reacted to a girl who wasn't even God Goku level then? Why didn't he reacted to Kefla then? Inconsistent. You may argue the manga is unbalanced, with Kale being ridiculously powerful just as Gohan was, and the "mighty" Toppo essentially becoming fodder, which I agree, but at least it is *consistent* with itself, unlike the anime.
Dude Am I the only one that realizes that in 98% of the pages toyotaro makes has a bunch of chatting Dude that’s why toriyama has more space and detail for his pages
I sure as hell remember them, I was part of that naive crowd that thought maybe he will do stuff as good as the anime or even better. Then eventually I broke my head when I hit with the solid wall that reality is.
I agree with the panels but I really like how he draws those scenes and I love his art style. And how he draws characters anatomy is really crispy and I love it :)
I loved the Manga up until the T.O.P, his drastically different take on the Trunks arc was really interesting to read through. However the changes that he's made to the Tournament have been either pointless or infuriating. ULTRA INSTINCT DIDNT EVEN GET TO LAND ONE HIT BEFORE IT RAN OUT. Not to mention the confusing way he "learned" how to do it. I personally don't mind the clutter of his pages, I could definitely do without the exposition dumps though.
Actually, the one thing the manga did better was handling ultra instinct. Absorbing a spirit bomb and through fighting to survive awakening a form that essentially makes you untouchable makes no sense at all. The manga is trash though.
Thomas Houghton He didn't absorb the Spirit Bomb at all, were you even watching the show? His struggle against the Spirit Bomb made him break his limits and hence he achieved UI.
I think you're mistaken with the name of the arc in the manga. Toyotaro's version is definitively the *_Goku Black_* arc because Trunks does near to jack shit in his re-telling, and is literally just side fodder who adds nothing worth mention. It's actually really sad when you realise he wholeheartedly could have been absent. That said, it _is_ still better than the current manga T.O.P i'll give it. Black's art for the most was fantastic and did a very good job in expressing his evilness, Fused Zamasu too fought in a far more interesting and un-conventional way. But i can't forgive the shafting of one of Dragonball's most liked characters. Sadly, that wasn't the first nor the last time Toyotaro would shit on fan favourites.
Dragonmatic I defended it for like the first two chapters (top) because I liked the idea of the beginning going fast so we could get to the good stuff. But it never slowed down....
The anime version of the tournament of power took forever and everyone got gamesharks and infinite stamina. So I didn’t like it but there were some highlights like ui Goku and stuff so it was worth it to stick around. The manga version goes way too fast and it offers very little. I’m very disappointed.
Also i think that toyotaro is (overall) more consistent on the plot, but too rush in this arc. I love the manga of the goku black arc and i like the ui interpretation in the manga. But in general the Universal tournament arc is.....meh
No spoils God arc: it was cool to watch but I think it was rushed Note:6/10 Note:Freeza arc was skipped kinda disappointed about that Universe 6 tournament:I loved it it was not too long not too short perfect time! The fights were nice and the writing was great! Note:8/10 Goku black arc: I loves the writing of the story and the fights were really cool! They fixed some things that in the anime were not and some better moments too! Note:8.9/10 T.O.P: Honestly, I liked it but it was too short for what it was in the anime, the power difference between the manga or the anime didn't bother me that much, the writing of the story was cool and the fights were really cool but not enough fights. The note will be lower because it was rushed. Note:7/10 Moro arc: It is my favorite arc from now it was longer, more cool fights and a nice story writing! I loved almost everything! I also loved the final fight at the end! Note:9/10 Granola arc from now is lovely, I'm just waiting until it's over to buy the new last chapters
Problem with Toyotaro is that it he has all this time to plan the manga chapters *MONTHLY* more than Than Toriyama ever had to produce chapters, and Toyotaro just seems to be getting worse. It’s Like he doesn’t try to get creative with anything, doesn’t try to fix anything that the anime may have screwed up, even the art most of the time looks bland There are so many DB writers/artists that can do Toyotaros job and make it billion of times better in LESS TIME. That’s saying a lot
5 лет назад+9
"he has all this time" Yeah confirmed to know fuck all about manga creation.
How about this. He does not have a clean slate. He needs to work with an established story that was bloated in the anime already. He also seems to be powering through this arc so that they can start with a new one, maybe so that they can actually make a story that was not terrible.
It's hard to be original when he's forced to write a story about arena brawl with 80 fighters. ToP is a failure on conceptual level and I blame Toriyama.
Gaming w/TallenV Exactly, I think it's too fucking obvious by now. He has to end the ToP before the movie comes out in December, to promote it with the first chapter of Broly saga.
He’s really good now, mark half a year later said he regrets this video, toyataro is really good already he just got tougher circumstances than toriyama
it tried to fix some parts like not having fembroly show up till TOP and having more of a reason that triggered the transformation. Also giving a reason that 17 has SSGB levels of power instead of the anime reason of there is no reason.
7:43 I realized this problem myself when making my first comic. I was cramming to much stuff on a page. and later I started thinking about What panels I WANTED to get attention. so I started working on multiple pages at once, giving the important parts room. and then fill in the blanks with the remaining spaces I had. it forced me to make my Dialogue shorter and forced me to "Cut Corners" and make a much better flow, just like Toriyama advised.
3 года назад+27
personally I really like the whole "ultra instinct" Roshi thing. It pays respect to the fact that Roshi has over 300 years worth of experience, and that you may be able to get a lot done with power, but there are some things that you can only get through skill and experience. Like, to me it makes sense that an experienced fighter like Roshi can predict his opponents movements and dodge on instinct, like it's muscle memory or something.
No actually it makes the concept even more of a joke than God ki. You want the audience to believe a human that was beaten by an old decrepit king Piccolo could gain such power. It breaks the story and willing suspension of disbelief. His last master was Korin yet he's pulling the most luxurious ass-pull since revival of F Freeza. DBS is irredeemable garbage an a coplete waste of time regardless of the medium.
Not to mention the flow on Toyotaros panel is really messy..sometimes I have no idea which panel should I read first and the one after that...plus his shots are really bland..he mostly uses mirrored view he never takes risks. If you read a page from Toriyama each panel lead up to the next one flawlessly but in the Toyotoros each panel feels like a page in itself..you read it and go to the next and have no idea what happend, your brain cant fill the space he leaves behind and you get lost really quick
I had that problem just from looking at ONE of his pages in this video
5 лет назад+4
That is absolutely true, he has no idea on how to compose a page to facilitate panel's reading, so sometimes 2 panels have a nice flow an then the rest is a mess. Toriyama is very good at paneling, especially in action scenes, the compositions he uses are clear and the action readable, while Toyo seems to be totally clueless on how to do these kind of things, which is a shame considering that he's not that bad when it come to smearing effects and poses.
I agree with this video so much. I get excited when a new chapter is out, but it’s always so exhausting to read. An example of a series done right, which motivates me to read it again and again, is Berserk. I read it twice and I’m currently on the 3rd read
4 года назад+5
OMG... I JUST started reading the DBS manga and I was literally thinking "Why am I reading this sooooo slowly?" -- I honestly feel like reading them takes effort and goes painfully slow... Goddamnit you hit the nail on the head
Sorry, I’m now fixating on “Dragon Ball Chou.” Are people actually calling it that? Like the pretentious lot who say, “Hunter cross Hunter.” Makes me laugh.
The difference between Toyotaro (DB Super) and Horikoshi ( My Hero Academia) is that the latter actually listens to the advice of his senpais and applies them, while the other one is busy tracing.
Meanwhile Toei just gets a new writer of the week to do whatever they want with no editor to make sure the scripts make sense but so long as the episode is marketable.
Lloyd Lrving ay it's this guy the guy who said "it didn't make sense for Toppo to use God of Destruction power" despite training to be one. What a legend you are.
Lloyd Irving they literally have a team of writers. And tgeu has no time to really proof read because of the shit schedule. Learn things before you try and give a opinion
Is it still tracing when the guy is hired by the company and the original manka to continue the SAME manga and trace poses of characters of the SAME manga?
Instantaneous Sanic I know many people that were disappointed with the arc as well, there were any problems with the arc like how goku obtained ultra instinct, how fucking Kefla was stronger than ssjb kaioken, piccolo getting eliminated the stupidest way, the inconsistencies with the fighters stamina that made zero sense. Vegeta not having the energy to even go ssj but when he gives it to goku (who also had No stamina to even get up) turns ssj blue. The only outstanding thing that surprised me was the end fight between goku, freiza, 17 vs jiren, and gohan and piccolo vs the namakians, everything else wasn’t that good.
So I'm by no means an expert on good practices in manga composition; nor am I a manga expert in any sense lol. Question though: When you gave an example on how Toyotaro could clean up his panels you removed character reaction shots; deeming them to be not essential and stating that not including them allows for the action panels to be more focused on. As someone who's read all of Dragonball up to the end of the Buu saga, one thing I think it "suffered" from (loose use of the word suffer there) was that there were just sooooo many characters being kept along for the ride alongside the main roster to a point where they almost felt like they were just being shoehorned into the story just to be there. So, I ask you, wouldn't removing these character shots hurt the story since the presence of the other 7 character reactions is kind of important? Take Beerus, for example. Seeing his shocked expression at Kale's explosion clues the reader into believing that, despite the fact that his role/dialogue portrays him to be above everyone else, he is still capable of being surprised when people pull power levels like Kale had done in the scene. Removing this reaction would have missed that opportunity for non-verbal story telling, yeah? Sure, we don't need to see Krillian react like he's been doing since the Freeza saga, but I am just wondering if the huge "main roster" of characters at this point might be the bigger cause for all the clutter in some scenes. Curious to hear what you think though! :)
This is just my two cents. 1) Having Beerus' reaction to Kale's power-up should be slightly elaborated, so I agree with you on that since Kale's form is quite unique (you know, after Beerus experiencing 3 different colors of Super Saiyan). 2) Some elaborations and reactions are definitely necessary, but mixing them with Action packed panels would dilate the Intensity.
I think the main point was how much more effective the art can be when you don't squeeze as much as you can onto one page. It's not that it's all bad stuff, but you lose some of the impact of the individual images when they're all piled on top of each other.
Thankfully the manga has improved a lot since that arc ended, it's obvious he had to end the ToP before Broly movie came out, that’s why he did it that way.
@@tricko8000 Currently the fight scene is a little out of formula (no crazy hand-to-hand), but it is interesting to see how the magic continues to play out
A Salty Mochi Yeah it will be very interesting when Moro gets his powers back. I guess they will get the Grand Kai out of Buu and he will teach Goku and Vegeta some magic techniques to be able to fight Moro.
This is a real shame. I remember reading this one comic Toyotaro made about Roshi in the distant future, where he was telling stories to Goku and Vegeta's descendants, him passing away, seeing his long-departed friends and reliving the happiest times in his life. I thought it was an absolutely brilliant, sad and beautiful tribute to Roshi's character. I just wish Toyotaro could come up with something that great again.
It was in a special chapter of Dragonball AF. The chapter is basically a stand alone story, you don't need to know anything about AF, GT or whatever, and it is absolutely worth the read. You can find it by googling reddit's "Dragonball AF Doujin Update Thread", and clicking the link of 04 Special.
Why are people putting full blame on him its not like he can write what he wants they boxed him in with working on the Super manga based on the anime. Plus the Broly movie is coming out his creative freedom is in chains
Good video. I’ve had problems with the Super manga since it began but they started to snowball by the end of the Future Trunks arc to what we have now in the Tournament of Power. Toyotaro does have some upsides, but overall I think the manga would be better off in the hands of another mangaka.
5 лет назад+20
I dont see how or why, the source material (the anime in this case) is absolute shit, the story is terrible, the new characters are terrible, they ruined the old characters, they teared appart everything that was established in db and dbz etc.... This was a cash grab from the beggining with a bunch of new transformations to sell merchandise and new characters with cartoony and childish design and plain 1 dimmentional childish personality to appeal to kids. Dbz was a simple anime but it was good at what it did, the whole "new stronger enemy appears main characters get new transformation" formula couldnt be any more streched than it was on dbz, the show should have ended in cell saga, buu saga was already a stretch; now to do an entire new anime with the same tired formula but actually 100000000000x worse in every possible way than the original is just stupid and if you actually like db super you have no taste at all and you would watch literally anything that came out with the db name on it.
It wouldn't be better in the hands of another mangaka. The reason why the ToP is so rushed is because he HAS to end it before the movie comes out in December, to promote it with the first chapter of Broly saga. This deadline is forcing him to rush through this saga.
Toyotaro has a lot of talent, but I think he should be drawing the panels individually digitally and have someone else take care of the pacing and spacing.
Tricko again: *he should be drawing the panels individually digitally* and have *someone else* take care of the pacing and spacing. He would be drawing the panels anyway, having someone else take care of the pacing would be saving a lot of time.
Really good points Mark! That was some really good commentary on page composition that I haven't heard before (and that's after reading that book about how to draw comics!) so nice work there. Toyotaro could definitely use some pointers on such things, and as far as his "bad drawings", he's probably way overworked (like most mangaka). I know how long it takes to create a single page of a detailed manga like that so I'm sure quality goes out the window as the burnout sets in.
This video correctly squashed the red herring of the reference drawings and showed that Toyotaro's problem is not necessarily the drawing, it's his lack of imagination and weak composition compared to Akira Toriyama. We should not expect Toriyama because it's not, but the problem is that he's trying way too hard to make this _Dragon Ball awesome story._ It's like when you read Faulkner and try to write like Faulkner, but you lack the writing talent of Faulkner. You probably know grammar well enough, and able to put some style in your writing, but that's not enough to have _one sentence_ extend for seven fucking pages and not be a run-on (Faulkner's _The Sound and The Fury_ for those interested). You're trying too hard to replicate something you see, but you lack the skill to back it up and/or the [complete] understanding to know why it worked in the first place.
KAI the invincible Edit: Lol the only people who use the term ‘butt hurt’ end up being the ones butt hurt. I don’t think anyone cares. I hope not anyway cause _Dragon Ball Super_ is not that good for anyone to care. Plus what you said is not true.
The idea of ever page having a cliff-hanger (at least every action page) is actually pretty interesting. I guess that's always been why I preferred adventure or slice-of-life comic books over action ones, a lot of action scenes in comics rarely have the same drive to keep me wanting more, so I get really bored of them quickly.
This video was very good! I like how toyotaro draws, he definitely knows how to draw dragon ball and yeah, T.O.P was very bad, same with battle of gods, but time has passed and i'd like to know your opinion of the new content the manga has under this perspective, i know you liked the moro and granola arc already, but it would be cool to know how much better he has gotten under your perspective :D Nice video!
It’s kinda funny. I feel the same about Hunter x Hunter, yet it’s one of my favourite series of all time and Togashi is one of my favourite writers. But good fucking god.. 1 page from the manga can be it’s own book with how much detail he has in it. I sometimes stop reading to take a break because of the word vomit all over the place.
Every little thing in HxH is thouroughly thought out by Togashi as part of the culture and personality of each character. Unfortunately, he rides that horse way too long sometimes
GiLLyeXp My hero academia has many chapters like that, but the author knows how to balance it by giving and entire next couple of chapters with huge well drawn panels
5 лет назад
You can't really apply the same philosophy to HxH. DB was always a simple battle shounen at its core, HxH was never about the fights.
5 лет назад+1
@chrisff1989 you can definitely still apply this "philosophy" to hxh. You could apply it to any manga, it's just the composition of the pages. why couldn't you?
5 лет назад
I mean the philosophy of "less is more". With HxH more is more.
@@immortalflames7149 Shut up JIGGGGGENNN Im joking bro, chill out, I was just taken by suprise that so few people replied to his comment, so I wanted to be the first
Remember how everyone complained about how long to T.O.P was in the anime and how they can't wait till the manga came in and put the anime to shame. That the anime should only be the adaptation to the Manga............we dodge a bullet there since in the first 3 episodes of the anime(which is like less then 10% of the tournament) have more memoriable moments then so far the manga version(Which by my guess we only have 1 or 2, maybe 3 if we're lucky volumes left so over 50% of the T.O.P is done at the moment)
5 лет назад
2 chapters left. As the first week of December, Broly's manga for the movie is gonna be released according to the rumors. This month, Vegeta will be eliminated and Goku will go Full UI and next month the climax. So more or less 60 pages of the tournament left with around 10 or so for the prologue.
5 лет назад
realSSJpro Well, Goku went full UI and got defeated by Jiren in 5 or 6 pages.
Toyotaro is a good artist, but terrible at doing Manga, Akiras work is simple and effective, but Toyotaro just Abuses it with Way too many panels and Diaolouge.
@종이비행기 idk man, maybe you are just not used it or reading too fast, if you don't understand action scene reread it carefully and you'll understand it. Shonen manga are generally easy to read because they are for a younger audience. Knowing which order to read panel is hard at first but when it clicks in your brain reading any manga becomes more enjoyable :)
HyperX Xforts Killer yes it was traced. Prove me WRONG. Also to backup my statement go search up on RUclips Master Media traces exposed and you’ll see how MUCH he traces.
Regarding Toyotaro's skills as an illustrator: Using references is nothing unusual as anyone who has ever held a pencils of bruce can tell, moreover I don't think he is actually tracing (in fact even an amatour with some skills and experience can copy an image without tracing). The problem is that he is not able to use the refences in an organic and original way: I cannot see his own take and style, he seems more to pick some nice images here and there. In fact, his main shortcoming compared to Toriyama are not single panels (drawings usually look good overall), but the fact that the panelling lacks the dynamism and visual storytelling that make Toriyama's manga great. Regarding Toyotaro as a storyteller: I think he lacks focus. There are some nice takes and ideas, but again there is little consistency and the more he tries to fill some plot-weaknesses of the anime, the more he creates internal incoherence. Also it is quite clear that he could not care less about the ToP arc, really rushed and inconsistent. The way like he seems to build up to something that then is suddenly brushed aside (e.g. Toppo, Kefla, Beerus' rivalry with Quitela) gives an even stronger feeling that we are reading simple a bunch of panels sticked together just because.
Gohan somehow keeping up with Kefla after Kale alone was too much for SSB Goku wss probably my least favorite thing so far. Followed by the second worst one: Ignoring Caulifla's character traits entirely and making her say "You guys rock. I cant win". Dont even get me started on Roshi being able to dodge Jiren. The manga was fun until this arc, but now it feels way too fanfiction-y and rushed.
Caulifa was injured due to freeza and kale was destroying her body so, kefla was not in good shape. Secondly, in the anime kefla felt like a ripoff of vegito , so I liked manga kefla because she was her own character. Thirdly, jiren vs roshi was illogical.
5 лет назад+15
Xcalibur 1214 Yeah, that's bullshit. Goku and Vegeta were damaged against Buu but when they fused, the damage was not there. And even if that is the case, Gohan had a lot of trouble against the Trio de Danger. They were easily beaten by Frost who is not even worth a finger compared to SSJB yet here we have Kefla being on equal grounds with Gohan. Don't even get me started with Gohan's human power nonsensical dialogue. Anime Kefla is far from being a rip off of Vegito. She's just an obnoxiously overconfident teenager that wants to prove something. Vegito, however, has nothing to prove. He's just there being him while enacting his plans as the situation suggests.
@64kingarthur In DBZ manga, buuhan vs Goku + vegeta never happened. Before fighting buuhan Goku and Vegeta fused. In DBS anime, Goku black arc, Goku and Vegeta ate senzu beans and then fuse, why? Answer: to heal injuries and so that the fusion vegito could be at his peak of power. Secondly, Gohan got stronger during the fight with kefla just like all Saiyans get stronger during battles. For me kefla felt like a vegito ripoff.
5 лет назад+9
Xcalibur 1214 Even if Caulifla and Kale were damaged, it wouldn't really matter that much as a fusion. Super canon seems to come off from DB Kai, and even the DBS manga considering it was a promotional manga for the anime. The boost is too big for the likes of Gohan considering how Kale was a bit of a pain in the ass to Goku and Frieza. Caulifla is also a pain considering Frieza had to use his Golden form to prevent taking more damage. But Gohan? No. Complete utter bull. Even if a Saiyan gets stronger during battle, it wouldn't be so exaggerated enough to completely cross the power of a fusion unless it's a literal divine intervention like the SSJG ritual or accumulated training being put to use. This is Frost we are talking about. Someone who while weaker at least put up a short decent fight against SSJ Goku post-BOG. And what did Frieza do? Grabbed his face like what Broly do and toss him out. So for you, Kefla felt like a ripoff. Nothing but a shit opinion that ignores context.
@64kingarthur let me debunk some of your points. "Even if caulifa and kale were damaged , it wouldn't matter much as a fusion" You are implying that in Goku black arc, injured vegito would shit on merged zamasu may be you should stop reading fanfics. "The boost is big for the likes of Gohan" Are you forgetting that Gohan hurt raditz , freeza in namek arc and became 2nd most powerful z fighter in DBZ. You are just butthurted that Gohan has gotten more powerful but you are not pissed at anime 17 getting to ssb goku (let me remind you goku had years of whis training and goku had god ki base) by fighting fucking poachers for 12 years that even kid goten can handle. This also means that training with poachers>>>whis training? "Considering how kale was a bit of a pain in the ass to Goku and freeza" Now let me tell you what happened next kale thrashed fighters here and there and fought against pride troopers who through teamwork beat kale ie kale was breaking her own body due to power and later got injured by fighting pride troopers cabba then saved kale and kefla was formed. "Freeza had to use his golden form to prevent taking more damaged " Are you implying 3rd form freeza> Gohan? If you are stop you headcanon bs in the manga . Manga and anime are different in terms of Scaling. "This is frost we are talking about . Someone who is weaker at least put a decent fight against SSj post BoG Goku and freeza do , grab his face and toss him out" Hah....the same frost who eliminated a universe and used all his stamina and trusted freeza and freeza betrayed him , caught him off guard and threw him out . This clearly happened in the manga. Also in the manga Gohan was also reserving his stamina by not going all out against the 3 wolfs,,Maybe you should read carefully. I have a shit opinion and I ignore context huh? But at least I have an opinion unlike fans like you who , instead of reading manga just jump on hate wagon. From you comment it is easy to say fans like you are cancerous and ignore context all the time . Retards like you just see who is fighting who but you don't see under what situation the fighting...... The answer of all your points in the manga but maybe fans like you don't even read the manga chapters and complain that it doesn't make any sense. Good day
Matt Pac what? Base goku black kicked ssb vegeta in the stomach in the anime and actually hurt him, then he transformed and literally oneshotted both ssb goku and ssb vegeta like 3 different occasions. The anime is not that much better than the manga, both pretty piss poor imo.
@@zgsfreaky9102 SS Blue Vegeta was Holdingg Back. Lol. Black Blitz him and Suddenly Vegeta was Able to Block SS Rose Attack? You Do Not Understand That Goku and Vegeta always Hold Back. Lol Many Claim 17 is Equal to SS Blue.. No he is On The Same Tier as SS Blue Goku. Not Level.
Seth Howell that’s literally explaining most of Super (anime) too , but ok. Manga WAS great, it went fucking nuts after the GoD little fight . Too bad, last impressions are the most important thing, look how most people dont even realize that up until episode 34or so from Super, we had like 3 good episodes and only one good fight .
Time Constraints, time constraints everywhere. Toyo, even if he tries his best, will get dragged down especially because of Toei commissioning the Manga. They likely want him to get the ToP done with quickly. That compounds the problems with Toyo. To get all the information needed in the arc, he needs to compact all that info into many panels per page. I'm not saying that it's the only issue, however I think that that issue is preventing Toyo from giving the aforementioned breathing room.
Alovon That wasn’t even the issue that he said Toyotaro has in the manga. The issue was Toyotaro over does his chapters. More time wouldn’t help that, what he needs to do is change his manga style.
@@metatron6262 umm, yeah it kinda does. It prevents him from trying to be more loose and implement Toriyama's advice because, he absolutely has to now. I'm not saying the time constraints were a problem in previous arcs, those arcs problems were primarily Toyo's alone. However, the ToP arc is subjecting him to large time constraints, ergo to get it done in time (hint hint, December/January). He has to compact the arc, therfore the art, panels, and story get rushed and squished. And that compounds on Toyo's other problems.
Exactly. Plus he has to make the manga different enough from the anime to garner interest while simultaneously find a way to have it make sense outside of "he has the will to do it" that the anime kept recycling. Its not an enviable job and one I feel confident almost any mangaka would fail at. What's more, the fact that he only has a monthly issue with only so many pages allotted to him makes it even more difficult
5 лет назад+9
Alovon you realize Toriyama was constantly on a time restraint drawing and writing Dragonball and because of that his best work was born from that struggle. The Super Saiyan form being one of them.
5 лет назад+4
Rozu, Why are you comparing that? The situation is entirely different because the manga was ahead compared to the now with the manga being behind.
This video basically explained to me why do I haven’t finished the second manga of db super and have mangas 3 to 7 unopened. Really liked the video and think the same.
Funny. I would’ve agreed with you back when this video came out, but then we got two of the best dragon ball sagas in history. Not only that, I’m afraid that when the anime covers the arcs in question. they’ll ruin everything for the sake of MARKETING! Sorry I don’t know what came over me
Nah man you mean the two worst sagas in dragon ball history. They both add nothing to the story and only serve to destroy the little character goku and vegeta had left in super. Also it has more lazy writing, paneling and drawings than any other arc in super. Moro was just a terrible villain and goku giving him a sensu bean just doesn’t make sense, dude probably did cause he thought it would be cool. Then there’s the granolah arc which has just been a mess and has no sense of direction. The entire manga for super is just terrible and I encourage you to reread or rewatch dragon ball and dragon ball z and maybe even gt to see how much gokus and vegetas characters have been ruined in super.
Lovely analysis, toyotaro doesn't need all the word play of them talking about pointless shit. I remember watching a video saying how toriyama was amazing at making his panels move in motion. I wonder what you think of hxh chapters cause damn shit is cluttered nowadays
Young Jijii draws a lot better, setting wise and art wise. I think it's because he wasn't around when the auditions happened is why he didn't get to be the artist for it.
5 лет назад+1
This made me think about how in Berserk the word heavy pages were usually very large picturesque panel
5 лет назад+3
I actually quite liked Roshi dodging a punch from Jiren to show Goku what he's talking about. Honestly in those few panels he made ultra instinct make more sense to me than the anime had in the 50 or whatever episodes since Goku first accidentally did it, I especially liked the part where Roshi points out to Goku that it's the same thing every single person who's trained him over the years has been trying to get across, not just some new thing Whiss came up with. I do agree the pages are too messy in his manga, and those few changes you showed definitely make a world of difference. Though there are obviously people who don't mind a messy manga, I mean one piece is one of the most popular manga going and I remember sitting down once and reading a random chapter, it didn't matter that I had no idea where I was in the story because it was horrific to even try and pinpoint what part of the page my eyes should go to next, it made the pages you just showed of the super manga look clean and empty in comparison. I also don't mind that he knocked out the majority of fighters during Kale's rampage, again one of the problems i had with the anime during the tournament was it's dragging on and on for way too long with fights that were so inconsequential in my future rewatches I would just skip. Though the super anime is full of that compared to the manga and I really don't see the appeal, during the trunks arc they go back and forth through time, what like 3 or 4 times? During the tournament of power Goku has skirmishes with Jiren like 3 times as Well before their final fight. I mean christ the Freeza saga saw Goku fight Freeza twice, cell he fought once, Buu he fought what two or three times but at least two of those were different forms of Buu. Just having him fight and get beaten by the same opponent over and over doesn't build suspense or make each fight more thrilling, you just lose interest.
I think toyotaro feels a pressure of sort, mainly because: 1- he is carrying on dragon ball's legacy 2- because his manga is monthly and is behind the anime. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like is trying to wrap the arc up before something happens. I.e., he is on a schedule. Back with dragon ball, Akira did not plan things ahead and had no source material to rely on, so he was more carefree with his story. I think that's why he was more lax with his panelling and pacing. 3- Maybe toyotaro has to work side-by-side with TOEI's anime staff to some extent, and that's why his pacing is affected? Also, maybe it's because he thinks the readers have seen the anime and therefore just want the TOP manga to cut straight to the point with they 'hype' moments? I am saying that because a lot of "secondary" fights in the anime's TOP were not shown in the manga. 4- Lastly, I think toyotaro is doing "too much work" because he also has a smaller workload...? once again, i could be totally wrong because i am not that familiar with page limits when illustrating a manga for a magazine, but 45 chapters a month can only express so much in comparison to a weekly manga. A weekly manga has around 17 pages, which is around 68 pages a month. Maybe that's why weekly manga can have a slower pace than a monthly one? I apologize if my points are all jumbled up, but these were my thoughts when watching the video. I also really felt that ToP was very concise in comparison to the anime, which I was not a big fan of. Not giving fights enough room does not allow the intensity and stress build up as they end too soon, which is why I was not so hyped reading them. Also, I loved your edits! Indeed less panels do make it seem more enjoyable! Would reread DBS if someone did that to it all. Great video like always :)
Oh damn, rip. I mean the Cell/Zamasu thing people probably just washed that off as a 'homage' at the time, probaly because it was the Future Trunks Arc and that's when any goodwill he had offically began to take a knock. Though in light of everything else...Eh... Also when I draw, a lot of the stuff you said makes sense which I been keeping in mind as well. Making every page or rather the last panel feel like a cliff-hanger to make the reader wanting to keep going. Trying not to spend too much time on dialogue, yet if it's there atleast be relveant and not something that's easy enough to figure out by just observing the characters your self.
DBS is just so weak in every aspect. tensionless stories, uninteresting opponents, useless transformations, bad art design for manga and anime. Young Jijis Dragonball AF manga should have been the new canon of DB right from the start. It has a interesting plot, great new characters, actual reuse of beloved characters, emotional weight and well deserved new transformations. I just cant stand how every arc of DBS just feels like a happy, little side quest with unnecessary jokes thrown all over it.. It almost feels like filler alltogether.
@Cas ual Zamasu is a uninteresting opponent ? Are you kidding me ? Almost the whole arc of Zamasu was great, the only bad thing was the end ... Same for the Universe 6 arc...
I never understood why people get so upset that Roshi is the reason Goku learns Ultra Instinct. It makes sense in its own way. U.I. is the mastering of all Martial Arts, right? Learning to move without thinking. Well, Roshi's been training for more than 300 years or so. He should be well on his way. It's dumb that it just happens for no reason other than for Goku to copy, but it still makes at least a little sense. And that's always been Goku's thing; copying and improving on what he sees other people do.
Michael Massey I get what you are saying and I somewhat agree , but the thing is: they could’ve used literally anybody other than the top 3 of U11. Fucking JIREN is stronger than a GoD , it doesnt make sense an earthling (without UI) would be dodging Jiren. But yeah, the was Goku learned UI from Roshi and remembering his past masters(almost like if it was planned, which is cool be we 100% know it wasn’t since this is Dragonball), IS FAR better than him just “oh , guess I won’t die then” and resurrecting from oblivion with a powerboost and the skill to dodge instinctively....however the anime was a lot more entertaining, the manga lacked suspension
It’s insane how much more readable your edits were. They actually made sense and got me hyped, Toyotaro can draw dragon ball really well! But as a mangaka... he’s not the best.
Thanks man I always felt bad for not liking this new manga but I couldn't put my finger on what exactly it was, this was helpful in articulating the lack of visual appeal
Your argument about panels is a little flawed since Toyotaro's manga is a monthly one and Toriyama's was weekly. A lot more dialogue and content needs to be crammed into the Dragon Ball Super manga per chapter as it tries to stay relatively faithful to the anime's outline.
Wow, I never realized how much skill and knowledge went into organizing your panels for a manga or comic. Definitely shines a light on how important and complex this type of work can be. Thanks for the brief lesson! But this was examining more so the action sequences. What about parts in the story where you want to have character speeches or lengthy conversations? How do you make those interesting without cluttering the page?
5 лет назад+1
When you have just 2(or more) characters talking, you can use more interesting angles to make the scene less boring while still using the principle that less is more, for example: making a big panel when a character is revealing an important information or shaping the form of each panel to fit the rhythm of the conversation(smaller, irregular panels for a very heated argument for example).
To learn you have to study references directly, then implement without a direct study, then shift the perspective to fully grasp a pose. What I mean is if you want to draw a flexed bicep you study a picture directly. You draw what you see. Then you draw the same without looking at the reference so that you form the composition and details from your own mind. Then you apply that to what you already know of the arm and change the view point for the same pose. Instead of from the side you draw it from the front or a diagonal angle. Changing things up like this is how you learn anatomy as well as the universal skills of composition and space that are key for all forms of art. Toyotaro was clearly on step two. There's minor referencing but things are so off and different that he's clearly drawing a lot of the character from memory. He saw the pose, liked it, and tried to make something similar. Very different from a direct tracing but still a bit too raw and unsure to say that he's in a stable and confident place with his poses and compositions. His art has a lot of room left to grow stable and reliable in proportions, control of space and foreshortening, and building scenes.
5 лет назад+3
The Dragon Ball Super manga was the first manga I've ever read...
What do you guys think about the Super Manga?
It's good
I still like. I know it's not every's cup of tea, and yeah I'm questioning Toyo's as a writer but I've learned to enjoy ironically.
It’s about as good as the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime 🤷♂️🤷♂️
At least MOST of its shit makes fucking sense. Why everyone acts like the anime is superior in every aspect is beyond me. But UI Roshi makes no fucking sense but don't blame the dude for everyone rushing him to be done by a specific date.
Also fully agree with the less is more concept, Toyo does add toooooo much detail, it gets annoying to keep up in just one page
TFS!
Toyotaro is rushing trough the T.O.P so he can throw a curveball at us and have the real antagonist El Hermano show up.
and then Shaggy learns ultra instinct 3 and teams up with spongebob
Clearly El Grande Padre is the true villain of the arc.
I think we're forgetting about the most evil threat in the entire series.........SAIBAMAN
The Gohan we saw eliminate himself with Kefla wasn't actually Gohan, but Goten in disguise
The real Gohan is biding his time, waiting to unleash his Calvo Blanco form
@Grizzexploder
That's ridiculous. He obviously let himself be knocked out when Piccolo telepathically told him that El Grande Padre has a secret army to start a coup. Krillin has been secretly creating a Spirit Bomb made of Angel Ki for Gohan to absorb but Gohan must get used to the Angel ki before he could absorb it. Angel ki is different for each Angel so he could only do it the ToP. However Gohan knows that Blanco isn't enough. Krillin, Tien Shinhan, and Master Roshi told Gohan of secret Earthling exclusive transformation, Calvo. They only managed to have normal baldness but Calvo creates a perfect shine around your scalp which Krillin learns after he stops waxing his head. However Calvo Blanco requires a perfect balance of hair and baldness.
It's no secret that Toriyama is a fan of doing less. He's often called lazy, even if somewhat jokingly but he had a real genius to it.
Toriyama reminds me of young Tomoya from clannad.. He does great things but really can't be bothered..
@Joshua Graham That anime (including the after story) gets so fucking sad. Never before has any piece of media made me bawl my eyes out like the Clannad anime did. Katawa Shoujo (visual novel) came close, and Gurren Lagann (anime) was the most powerful in terms of uplifting emotions, but Clannad... Damn.
"if I was going to find someone to do a job I'd have a lazy person because they'd find the easiest way"
@Mikeureko Lmao Clannad and Angel Beats are the only pieces of media or fiction that has made me cry
I've heard that lazy people often find smarter ways of doing things with less effort. Or maybe they're geniuses that don't have to work as hard as others, so they became lazy. 🤔
i think toyotaro is trying WAY TOO HARD to make every pose dynamic and stylish where it ends up taking more priotiry than everything thats actually important to make manga pages appealing.
Yeah but at least your not a total prick , ripping into someone whonis clearly so much more successful and talented , this channel is so negative and full of drivel.
personally i like the manga's art quality despite all its flaws.
i do feel like all the criticism is a bit too harsh since he's work gets compared to one of the most succesfull mangas of all time. but on the other hand, he has to recieve said critisim to improve his manga over time
I agree with constructive critism , but for this guy to then say " hey look I made the manga better " just by removing images isn't true , the original creator picked this guy , he passed the Batton on , not for RUclips views and irrelavnt critism to feed his own ego, but to continue something we all know and love. The views and critism I this video are offbase , it's typical of youtubers to name drop, critise and insult genuine content makers . Critism and insulting is the EASIEST , thing to do .
David Smith you kinda missed the point by assuming that he claims to be better than Toyotaro. He’s just merely showing less-informed fans that the artist can improve. He has potential. He just needs to focus it. Yes, his tone was a little sarcastic and mischievous but it’s used to instill a comedic and nonchalant tone; which is essential in entertaining audiences with short attention spans.
well what is there in dbz that needs to be emphasize more, the storyline and plot sucks
The best way I can describe Toyataro is:
It feels like he is trying to do a screen play for the anime rather than making a manga.
Some modern manga are just screenplays for the anime
@@weshall1071 That's fair...I guess.
Anime is a lot more popular than manga so that's understandable, but if you want manga readers to check out the anime then you have to make the manga look good first.
@@LJ-hk4tv thats definitely true and its a shame that Toyataro is struggling with that so much.
@@LJ-hk4tv DBS Manga is a lot better than the anime. . But don't get me wrong, I also like the anime. . It's just that I think the manga is better
So to sum up the short story, Toriyama's advice to Toyotaro is:
1. Less is more
2. More creativity
And then, Toyotaro did this by rushing the ToP and fucking up the arc with a lot bullshit
@@Salt-UNDER_LINE
Because he had a Time limit!!!
Spiral Mark yet the Dragon Ball Super anime recycles scenes over and over again as well as gives us useless episodes and talking to keep ramping up the amount of episodes in the anime.
José Cavalcanti the Arc was already fucked up from the get-go. No Buu, asspulls for Goku, Hit knocked out early, Gohan “Team leader” doing nothing, Vegeta not getting Ultra Instinct yet having literally the same exact training and hardships as Goku in this arc, Frieda surviving not once, not twice, but 3 times from falling off. Android 17? Oh yeah, no one else notices he didn’t get knocked off. Kefla getting these outrageous power ups. Jiren not using his God of Destruction mode and staying calm, instead they turn him into a lunatic. I could go on.
@@natecruz7114
1. No Buu so what? Frieza is a much fan favourite character.
2. What asspulls? You're just crying and bitching.
3. Because he took on Jiren alone.
4. Because no one was listening to him. We saw that just in the start of the T.O.P
5. Because for U.I, You need calm mind _(which vegeta doesn't have)_ and surpassing your limit. Goku was the right person for U.I because not only he is a fast learner, His head is always empty.
6. Frieza survived worsier things. And why does this make this arc bad? You wanted a clichè ending?
7. #17 pretended to have *DIED* not fallen off.
8. Yeah... Kefla one is bad. But atleast we got an 'Bad explanation' for her power ups. Kale is the Legendary SSJ like Broly, So when she fuses with Caulifla, She of course will gain outrageous power boosts. But the power-boosts given to Caulifla were just the worst thing from T.O.P
9. Jiren doesn't have that... Where'd you got that theory from? Jiren wasn't gonna be a G.O.D, So he didn't received the same training as Toppo.
So... Anything more?
Toyotaro is trying to fit a bunch of stuff in that *would* work in the anime, but just doesn't in the manga, for instance the reaction panels.
Its an issue with writers who start drawing. You overthink everything, but that kind of dynamic doesnt translate well while drawing.
This. This is a solid criticism that makes 100% sense. Note that it also has only 2 up votes as of this time. I think that says everything about this community as a whole.
@@Malthizar dude give it time lmao
I came here to type this exact comment. I bet his love of the anime might have effected him there as they tend to show everyone freaking out and there are times when it's done well expanding on scenes and not just toei stretching out the filler.
For instance cell killing 16 was expanded in the anime and made the scene much better.
But if you do it all the time, it makes the reactions feel like they aren't worth anything. And they take up space that could be used for the action, and break up the flow.
I honestly feel if someone did what TNM did here it would improve the manga a lot but idk who would have the time to edit such a thing.
Ronquixote D. III That's exactly what I meant. It's like he's trying to adapt an anime into a manga and not the other way around. He should take some inspiration from Toriyamas original manga.
A lot of people might say that Toriyama isn't a good writer.
Maybe.
But he's amazing mangaka. He's a prime example of "Work smarter, not harder"
Heck, Super Saiyan. The biggest claim to fame most people know Dragon Ball for was an example of his laziness being for the best.
I mean, for writing exclusively on a week to week basis, Toriyama wrote a lot better than what most writers could crank out without at least a more thorough plan for the plot. Plus, only a few people could create quite as dramatic exchanges and intense moments even with better writing schedules.
@Indie Plex Awful would be a bit too far.
While he can make pretty large blunders, he's still able to weave a flowing narrative with likable characters with proper motivations that can readers can emotionally resonate with.
Plus when his focus is on Gag stuff, he's freaking hilarious. Dr Slump is nearly 40 years old, and it still great.
That could work in 80-90. Not today.
@Indie Plex he barely has anything to do with super though
@@monkeykingw if toriyama is good at pacing I'm yet to see it.
This is the same guy that cant remember how to scale his own power levels, can't scale time (namek, five minutes I think we all know) and holds jokes about panties in the highest regard of comedy.
He's talented but pacing is not something he even knows the definition of.
Honestly, looking at how he uses so many panels with so many reaction shots from so many characters, it feels like it's set up like an anime. In an anime. you get a lot more detail. Where a manga might use a single panel to give the impression of the protagonist dodging a single blow, an anime could show every motion involved in dodging those attacks. Where a manga might have one character making a commentary on a situation, an anime might include other characters chiming in with their thoughts on the matter. Or in short, where manga usually leaves many gaps for the reader to fill in with their own imagination, Toyotaro seems to draw each panel to get the exact amount of detail you'd get from watching an anime.
Well, yeah but, unfortunately... We aren't watching an anime, but reading a manga. Having 12 panels in 1 page works on very specific story-telling scenarios in manga, and shouldn't be crowded unless it's really necessary, like building up a full 2 page image with barely any dialogue
That's what I was thinking. He didn't cut enough from the anime to match the panels-per-page and cleanliness of pages that Toriyama did.
Makes sense since he used to a TV director
Toyotaro isn't a "Bad" Mangaka, but he's definitely no Toriyama.
He is. In the art department this video sums it up pretty nicely, and paired that with the bunch of writers that can only recycle old concepts and failing miserably in the process, this is a total trainwreck.
Nishimoto is the real heir to Toriyama, at least he could do a decent manga by himself. And precisely here lies the difference, Nishimoto started as a Dragon Ball fan too, but went on and passed his fan phase and didn't cling to dojinshis and could create Naruto, Toyotaro just did dragon ball dojinshis for years and stood in the comfort zone far too long. That's why there are myriads of really good artist that can create impressive illustrations in the manga industry, but true mangakas capable of not only draw but tell a good story with good pace is like finding water in the desert.
One's drawing is lackluster at best and childish at worst, but Onepunch Man and Mob Psycho 100 are master classes of storytelling and panelling. And you can always bring a good artist like Murata to put a godlike art into a great story.
The day Toyoraro does his own manga and just stop copying his master we will see if it's just another doujinshi writer or a truly full fledged professional. Until then, it's the first.
Daniel Martinez Gonzalez
Savage lol
@@Sakaki98 It's just that I'm tired of watching something I treasured a lot from my childhood been converted into this greedier day by day money making machine, starting reading this manga and discover that the guy that kickstarted this trend is a jackass dojinshi writer who can't do a proper manga by himself.
And worst of all, the original creator gives his blessings to this cesspool because he still hasn't enough to buy an island or create a dinosaur with dna cloning or whatever he wants to do with all that money, is not like Dragon Quest isn't super popular and a much better option to see what Toriyama genuiely cares about and does miles better or something like that. Greed fucking ruined this series.
Just compare the first kaioh ken or super saiyan transformation and then the festival of led lighting saiyan a la disco we have now. Still, I wish they learned a lesson with the new Broly and keep going that way, now they need to do better writing suited for a little more mature audience like it was before, young teens instead of toddlers, and we are set to a better future.
Or just fucking ending it for good. All things end. And it would be wise for all to accept it. I thought back in its day that the Buu saga exceeded what it was necessary for a good manga and its popularity proves that point. Not every series must be Doctor Who or One Piece. Self containment is a concept that the author of Bakuman and Death Note said it should be more had in count in the manga industry. And I concur.
@@fordesponja The longer and longer this franchise gets milked, the more and more likely we're gonna hear (Japanese) Goku played by someone who isn't Masako Nozawa, and that frightens me. And it's bizarre, because last decade.... hell, for roughly 15 years after GT ended, Dragon Ball WAS dead and buried. It had long since ended and the industry (sans video game developers from time to time) was able to move onto something else, and yet it was well off for it, because at least then the series was very fondly remembered.
Come to think of it, does this all come back to Dragon Ball Evolution? Seriously, after Hollywood put out that shitshow, Toriyama created Battle of Gods in response as a way to show them up (which, to be fair, he succeeded at by far), and needless to say, it's been a nonstop train ride ever since. Hell, even Kai initially got cancelled after the Cell arc (the Buu arc only being remastered to sell to international audiences at first), so it seemed like Dragon Ball was still facing dormancy before Battle of Gods became a thing.
@@YamatoFukkatsu I'm not for just burying whatever once is finished. There have been reboots and continuations before and there will be, but this is one of those instances that there is really nothing to add to the original work or do a twist on it, is just let's continue this like it hasn't passed 15 years because there is people willing to throw money at us for that. I pretty much prefer full metal panic fumoffu over the original, the only thing that has changed is that fumoffu is just focused on comedy, but just changing studios from xebec to kyoani gave the series another distinct tone to it. And fumoffu is just plain fanservice because the original blew up, well done fanservice like kyoani knows to do, but fanservice in the end.
The dragon ball dojinshis are bad. Generally because is just emulating (failing a lot in the process) what you like and there isn't really that many artists who get stuck to those era shonens because the source material is the most basic shit in the manga industry and was surpassed decades ago. Just look the kind of expanded universe naruto or one piece offer, the character evolutions and other things and we are talking about shonen battle mangas which their authors aren't really recognized for exceptional character developement or anything of the sort. Rurouni kenshin was in its entirety a manga that clearly evolved from the late 80's shonens but goes a little more beyond, and that started in freaking 1994! Even a complete reduction to the absurdity of this style like bobobo is way more interesting and refreshing. So, it really doesn't talk well at all about this situation and toyotaro as an artist if you just can't break from a style that was old news 25 years ago.
But since everyone just want the same thing over and over and gives tons of money, toyotaro is just the perfect cinderella for this overused and dirty shoe. And from the artist perspective this will just chain him more to this. I would be desperate in his place. Heck, jojo is totally different since phantom blood and you can really tell through the different parts how araki has evolved from 1982 to nowadays.
Dude, this was fucking incredible. I had no idea so much went into frame composition. I'd love to see more breakdowns like this in the future!
IKR?!
its called anime ajay
It's incredible stuff, mate!
One of the main reasons why I wanna be a story boarder.
There's a video by Super Eyepatch Wolf called "The Genius of Dragon Ball". If you love analyses of frame work, then check it out.
ruclips.net/video/jJK7oysHoMw/видео.html
@@WolfXGamerful thanks man, I'll check it out!
The Tournament of Power arc in the manga is just where I completely have lost interest. It is just way, waaaaaaayyyyy too rushed. It feels like they are sprinting to the finish line just to get it done with because of how close the Broly movie is.
Say what you will about the anime and power scaling in general. I'd rather have wonky power scales where a ton of characters get moments to shine than to have Kale/Kefla and Frost tank through the majority of fighters. U7 vs. Aniraza, Kefla vs. UIS Goku, Gohan/Frieza vs. Lightspeed Dyspo, GoD Toppo vs. SSBE Vegeta, ect. All of those moments made the ToP worth watching. The manga is just... bleh.
Even so, the TOP power scaling in the manga sucks too, but it’s worse than the anime. Kale destroys all the universes, and then fuses with Kefla. Then Kefla gets beaten by Gohan. Who isn’t even the strongest on his team.
That either means that
A) The U7 Team is in no way the underdog, and that they could destroy the other universes in an instant.
B) Caulifla made the fusion weaker, which I guess might make sense.
Or both.
@@lazyproductions8005 "Not by a long shot" - Totally Not Mark
The scaling is worse in the anime in the sense that it's not consistent with itself, sometimes you see Goku having issues with Ribrianne as a Super Saiyan but then slapping her in base form, or using Blue to get rid of Enhanced Ribrianne even though Android 18 was able to take on an even more powerful Mega Ribrianne.
Or Kale tanking Goku's Blue Kamehameha despite Controled Kale (the slim one) was stated to be stronger than her previous Berserker self, and that Kale was beaten up by God Goku, oh, and Jiren reacted to Berserker Kale, so he reacted to a girl who wasn't even God Goku level then? Why didn't he reacted to Kefla then?
Inconsistent.
You may argue the manga is unbalanced, with Kale being ridiculously powerful just as Gohan was, and the "mighty" Toppo essentially becoming fodder, which I agree, but at least it is *consistent* with itself, unlike the anime.
The manga is too short and the anime is too long...
Gohan vs Kefla sounds better then again I did really really enjoy the one with Goku
@Lazy Productions I’m pretty sure it’s the first one with other superpower being universe 11 though 6 and 3 are no joke
Dude Am I the only one that realizes that in 98% of the pages toyotaro makes has a bunch of chatting
Dude that’s why toriyama has more space and detail for his pages
Dude why did you not get a reply
Dude
That's just a problem with Super in general, anime or manga
WAAAAAAY too much talking and reacting not enough action
Dude dude dude dude
dude I dude think dude toyotaro dude is dude a dude great dude mangaka dude
Remember when Toyotaro was said to "save the ToP?"
Good times
I remember that LOL
That was some time ago
Filip Jeglic Where is my Time Machine I got to warn people
well he does a good job, no unnecessary story wasted on the side characters, pretty quick with the erasure of the universes etc...
@@thefriendlyneighborhoodspi3748 quick doesn't mean painless in this case
I sure as hell remember them, I was part of that naive crowd that thought maybe he will do stuff as good as the anime or even better. Then eventually I broke my head when I hit with the solid wall that reality is.
In a way he kinda did cut corners...
With the quality.
lol
Assinine Syndrome damn that was a punch in the balls
I guess you could say that was a a low blow...
*internal dying*
@@somedumbass3890 Fuck.
Assinine Syndrome ok
To be fair about the quality of the TOP manga, the TOP is a bloated mess. At least he cut most of that nonsense, less is more after all
I agree with the panels but I really like how he draws those scenes and I love his art style. And how he draws characters anatomy is really crispy and I love it :)
I loved the Manga up until the T.O.P, his drastically different take on the Trunks arc was really interesting to read through. However the changes that he's made to the Tournament have been either pointless or infuriating. ULTRA INSTINCT DIDNT EVEN GET TO LAND ONE HIT BEFORE IT RAN OUT. Not to mention the confusing way he "learned" how to do it. I personally don't mind the clutter of his pages, I could definitely do without the exposition dumps though.
Actually, the one thing the manga did better was handling ultra instinct. Absorbing a spirit bomb and through fighting to survive awakening a form that essentially makes you untouchable makes no sense at all. The manga is trash though.
you know, the idea of the ultra instinct manga version came probably from akira toryama since he is the thinker of the story
Thomas Houghton
He didn't absorb the Spirit Bomb at all, were you even watching the show? His struggle against the Spirit Bomb made him break his limits and hence he achieved UI.
they literally said, he absorbed it after he runs out the first time.
I think you're mistaken with the name of the arc in the manga. Toyotaro's version is definitively the *_Goku Black_* arc because Trunks does near to jack shit in his re-telling, and is literally just side fodder who adds nothing worth mention. It's actually really sad when you realise he wholeheartedly could have been absent. That said, it _is_ still better than the current manga T.O.P i'll give it.
Black's art for the most was fantastic and did a very good job in expressing his evilness, Fused Zamasu too fought in a far more interesting and un-conventional way. But i can't forgive the shafting of one of Dragonball's most liked characters. Sadly, that wasn't the first nor the last time Toyotaro would shit on fan favourites.
Remember when we praised the manga?
Dragonmatic I defended it for like the first two chapters (top) because I liked the idea of the beginning going fast so we could get to the good stuff. But it never slowed down....
Nope.
except for the part where it slowed down big time during the Future Trunks Arc and achieved nothing for most of it WHILE cutting out half the arc
It was going great until the Gods fought each other in the exhibition match. After that, he just gave up.
MCG_Raven Top means tournament of power read carefully young one
It's almost like Toyotaro took inspiration in the anime instead of the manga. The anime is FULL of reaction shot that make the episode longer...
He refrances so w-
Mark : **makes actual arguments**
Me : 👁️👄👁️
Mark: The rest is..filler.
Naruto shows up.
LMAO.
The anime version of the tournament of power took forever and everyone got gamesharks and infinite stamina. So I didn’t like it but there were some highlights like ui Goku and stuff so it was worth it to stick around. The manga version goes way too fast and it offers very little. I’m very disappointed.
Angry Daniel only Androids have infinite stamina
Mr. Sauceman X Backup Account Yeah they get a pass but the other characters don’t
Also i think that toyotaro is (overall) more consistent on the plot, but too rush in this arc. I love the manga of the goku black arc and i like the ui interpretation in the manga. But in general the Universal tournament arc is.....meh
Angry Daniel
Goku and Vegeta were pushing their limits by using their life force energy, they didn't have infinite stamina.
Ryukishi07 'The Creator'
it would be nice if they actually mentioned that, or if that matters in the future...but it probably won't.
No spoils
God arc: it was cool to watch but I think it was rushed
Note:6/10
Note:Freeza arc was skipped kinda disappointed about that
Universe 6 tournament:I loved it it was not too long not too short perfect time! The fights were nice and the writing was great!
Note:8/10
Goku black arc: I loves the writing of the story and the fights were really cool! They fixed some things that in the anime were not and some better moments too!
Note:8.9/10
T.O.P: Honestly, I liked it but it was too short for what it was in the anime, the power difference between the manga or the anime didn't bother me that much, the writing of the story was cool and the fights were really cool but not enough fights. The note will be lower because it was rushed.
Note:7/10
Moro arc: It is my favorite arc from now it was longer, more cool fights and a nice story writing! I loved almost everything! I also loved the final fight at the end!
Note:9/10
Granola arc from now is lovely, I'm just waiting until it's over to buy the new last chapters
I never realized how much detail toriyama put in his drawings. It doesn’t compare to like berserk or anything like that, but it’s pretty incredible.
Who is bezerk?
@@DairangerSentai7 you found out yet?
Problem with Toyotaro is that it he has all this time to plan the manga chapters *MONTHLY* more than Than Toriyama ever had to produce chapters, and Toyotaro just seems to be getting worse. It’s Like he doesn’t try to get creative with anything, doesn’t try to fix anything that the anime may have screwed up, even the art most of the time looks bland
There are so many DB writers/artists that can do Toyotaros job and make it billion of times better in LESS TIME. That’s saying a lot
"he has all this time"
Yeah confirmed to know fuck all about manga creation.
How about this. He does not have a clean slate. He needs to work with an established story that was bloated in the anime already. He also seems to be powering through this arc so that they can start with a new one, maybe so that they can actually make a story that was not terrible.
Like Yusuke Murata...
It's hard to be original when he's forced to write a story about arena brawl with 80 fighters.
ToP is a failure on conceptual level and I blame Toriyama.
When you look at it like that, Toyotaro seems to be the result of a franchise that is out of touch with it's fandom.
Before TOP, manga has some good points. I would bet money that he is rushed for top since the movie is coming out.
Gaming w/TallenV Exactly, I think it's too fucking obvious by now. He has to end the ToP before the movie comes out in December, to promote it with the first chapter of Broly saga.
Gaming w/TallenV didn’t expect u to be here
Can't you just accept reality ?
When Toyotaro gets a lot more experience I think he might be really good but for now I would say he is still in development.
He’s really good now, mark half a year later said he regrets this video, toyataro is really good already he just got tougher circumstances than toriyama
@@derrickrosespupil3607 toyataro has a lot of potential, but because of circumstances and being not as experienced, doesn't ulitize his skills well.
It has been 7 years now and his panneling is still bad
Toyotaro's panels kinda feels stressful to read tho
You could say... Toyotaro’s favorite Overwatch hero is Tracer. (I’ll go now)
"I'm already Tracer"~Toyotaro
...I don't think you understand what "tracing" actually means.
@@gallatinx9357 yep. you missed the joke
*was confused*
😶
........
*just got it*
haaaaaaaaaaaa..!!!!!
Gave me a chuckle
The manga should have FIXED the problems the anime had. Especially since it had the benefit of hind sight
Albastine S. Lol it SHOULDVE, instead it took those mistakes and made them even worse. And added a few other mistakes aswell.
You gotta keep in mind Toyotaro wasn't never a good storyteller.
His Dragon Ball AF manga was already pretty damn bad.
@@Gokussjdensetsuno45 But, he had a written story, he knew what the fans didn't like and... well he made it worse lol
It somewhat fixes the Trunks arc. The ending is still utter shit but even still better.
it tried to fix some parts like not having fembroly show up till TOP and having more of a reason that triggered the transformation. Also giving a reason that 17 has SSGB levels of power instead of the anime reason of there is no reason.
7:43 I realized this problem myself when making my first comic. I was cramming to much stuff on a page. and later I started thinking about What panels I WANTED to get attention. so I started working on multiple pages at once, giving the important parts room. and then fill in the blanks with the remaining spaces I had. it forced me to make my Dialogue shorter and forced me to "Cut Corners" and make a much better flow, just like Toriyama advised.
personally I really like the whole "ultra instinct" Roshi thing. It pays respect to the fact that Roshi has over 300 years worth of experience, and that you may be able to get a lot done with power, but there are some things that you can only get through skill and experience. Like, to me it makes sense that an experienced fighter like Roshi can predict his opponents movements and dodge on instinct, like it's muscle memory or something.
No actually it makes the concept even more of a joke than God ki.
You want the audience to believe a human that was beaten by an old decrepit king Piccolo could gain such power.
It breaks the story and willing suspension of disbelief.
His last master was Korin yet he's pulling the most luxurious ass-pull since revival of F Freeza.
DBS is irredeemable garbage an a coplete waste of time regardless of the medium.
Toyotaro do too much telling not enough showing in something that is literally meant to show.
smh.
Nice name
Aka every shonen ever
This. This is literally my problem with the BAKI series. Everything is so badass and the art is phenominal but fights are 30% show and 70% tell
Not to mention the flow on Toyotaros panel is really messy..sometimes I have no idea which panel should I read first and the one after that...plus his shots are really bland..he mostly uses mirrored view he never takes risks.
If you read a page from Toriyama each panel lead up to the next one flawlessly but in the Toyotoros each panel feels like a page in itself..you read it and go to the next and have no idea what happend, your brain cant fill the space he leaves behind and you get lost really quick
I had that problem just from looking at ONE of his pages in this video
That is absolutely true, he has no idea on how to compose a page to facilitate panel's reading, so sometimes 2 panels have a nice flow an then the rest is a mess. Toriyama is very good at paneling, especially in action scenes, the compositions he uses are clear and the action readable, while Toyo seems to be totally clueless on how to do these kind of things, which is a shame considering that he's not that bad when it come to smearing effects and poses.
Super Vegito you are literally talking about composition. What he said in the video and try to make it a new flaw.
I agree with this video so much. I get excited when a new chapter is out, but it’s always so exhausting to read. An example of a series done right, which motivates me to read it again and again, is Berserk. I read it twice and I’m currently on the 3rd read
OMG... I JUST started reading the DBS manga and I was literally thinking "Why am I reading this sooooo slowly?" -- I honestly feel like reading them takes effort and goes painfully slow... Goddamnit you hit the nail on the head
Sorry, I’m now fixating on “Dragon Ball Chou.” Are people actually calling it that? Like the pretentious lot who say, “Hunter cross Hunter.” Makes me laugh.
Its not even a cross! it's a X! God that bugs me.
I am one of these peopel that say "Hunter X Hunter" instead of saying it's more correct way "hunter hunter"
Here's a freebie: I have no idea what the series is, and have never watched a single second of it, so I've been calling it "Hunter ecks Hunter."
Probably the same kind of people that write Manga/Anime characters name in romanji, like "Torankusu" instead of "Trunks".
+DidyzZ So, super weebs?
The difference between Toyotaro (DB Super) and Horikoshi ( My Hero Academia) is that the latter actually listens to the advice of his senpais and applies them, while the other one is busy tracing.
Myst Hamog So true.
Meanwhile Toei just gets a new writer of the week to do whatever they want with no editor to make sure the scripts make sense but so long as the episode is marketable.
Lloyd Lrving ay it's this guy the guy who said "it didn't make sense for Toppo to use God of Destruction power" despite training to be one. What a legend you are.
Lloyd Irving they literally have a team of writers. And tgeu has no time to really proof read because of the shit schedule. Learn things before you try and give a opinion
Is it still tracing when the guy is hired by the company and the original manka to continue the SAME manga and trace poses of characters of the SAME manga?
after reading Moro arc : You are wrong boy....
after getting chapter 65 spoilers: nah you were always right
Senzu bean
To sum it all up, he's not a bad mangaka because he did what toriama did, he's a bad mangaka because he thinks manga is an anime.
I love it how I got a Marvel Strikes force Ad just before the Captain America plagiarism.
I agree with you Toriyama’s simple pages are just way more pleasant to look at
He was also able to show a shit ton of movement in only 3 panels while it takes Toyotaro 6 or 7 but i dosent bother me just pointing that out.
I loved the manga.
Until the ToP. Everything went downhill when it started.
And 4 years later we have a much better Manga with 2 great arcs
Is...is that Batman throwing All-Might into the ground? And CRACKING IT?!?!
That's not all might
Yes
Super Saiyan A i mean you know he’s do it
batman can beat all might with prep time so yes
bruh the all might guy is clearly punching the ground after his swing missed on the bat man
Honestly the ToP arc in the Manga is a mess I really don’t like it.
ToP was such a mess not even Toyotaro can fix it.
BraveBlitz the TOP wasn’t Even that good in the anime, yeah the manga was a mess with the TOP arc, but the anime version was so disappointing as well.
@@sideeyed7682 ToP in the anime wasn't disappointing and it exceeded most people's expectations.
Instantaneous Sanic I know many people that were disappointed with the arc as well, there were any problems with the arc like how goku obtained ultra instinct, how fucking Kefla was stronger than ssjb kaioken, piccolo getting eliminated the stupidest way, the inconsistencies with the fighters stamina that made zero sense. Vegeta not having the energy to even go ssj but when he gives it to goku (who also had No stamina to even get up) turns ssj blue. The only outstanding thing that surprised me was the end fight between goku, freiza, 17 vs jiren, and gohan and piccolo vs the namakians, everything else wasn’t that good.
@@sideeyed7682 Most of what you just listed was explained and can easily be explained, including Keflas strength.
So I'm by no means an expert on good practices in manga composition; nor am I a manga expert in any sense lol. Question though: When you gave an example on how Toyotaro could clean up his panels you removed character reaction shots; deeming them to be not essential and stating that not including them allows for the action panels to be more focused on. As someone who's read all of Dragonball up to the end of the Buu saga, one thing I think it "suffered" from (loose use of the word suffer there) was that there were just sooooo many characters being kept along for the ride alongside the main roster to a point where they almost felt like they were just being shoehorned into the story just to be there. So, I ask you, wouldn't removing these character shots hurt the story since the presence of the other 7 character reactions is kind of important? Take Beerus, for example. Seeing his shocked expression at Kale's explosion clues the reader into believing that, despite the fact that his role/dialogue portrays him to be above everyone else, he is still capable of being surprised when people pull power levels like Kale had done in the scene. Removing this reaction would have missed that opportunity for non-verbal story telling, yeah? Sure, we don't need to see Krillian react like he's been doing since the Freeza saga, but I am just wondering if the huge "main roster" of characters at this point might be the bigger cause for all the clutter in some scenes.
Curious to hear what you think though! :)
This is just my two cents.
1) Having Beerus' reaction to Kale's power-up should be slightly elaborated, so I agree with you on that since Kale's form is quite unique (you know, after Beerus experiencing 3 different colors of Super Saiyan).
2) Some elaborations and reactions are definitely necessary, but mixing them with Action packed panels would dilate the Intensity.
I think the main point was how much more effective the art can be when you don't squeeze as much as you can onto one page. It's not that it's all bad stuff, but you lose some of the impact of the individual images when they're all piled on top of each other.
Thankfully the manga has improved a lot since that arc ended, it's obvious he had to end the ToP before Broly movie came out, that’s why he did it that way.
@@tricko8000 Currently the fight scene is a little out of formula (no crazy hand-to-hand), but it is interesting to see how the magic continues to play out
A Salty Mochi Yeah it will be very interesting when Moro gets his powers back. I guess they will get the Grand Kai out of Buu and he will teach Goku and Vegeta some magic techniques to be able to fight Moro.
This was a beatiful video. Explains so much and actually get to know more about Manga Aesthetics. I liked the way you reorganized Toyotaros pages.
This is a real shame. I remember reading this one comic Toyotaro made about Roshi in the distant future, where he was telling stories to Goku and Vegeta's descendants, him passing away, seeing his long-departed friends and reliving the happiest times in his life. I thought it was an absolutely brilliant, sad and beautiful tribute to Roshi's character. I just wish Toyotaro could come up with something that great again.
me too
me three
What's the name of it?
It was in a special chapter of Dragonball AF. The chapter is basically a stand alone story, you don't need to know anything about AF, GT or whatever, and it is absolutely worth the read. You can find it by googling reddit's "Dragonball AF Doujin Update Thread", and clicking the link of 04 Special.
Why are people putting full blame on him its not like he can write what he wants they boxed him in with working on the Super manga based on the anime. Plus the Broly movie is coming out his creative freedom is in chains
Good video. I’ve had problems with the Super manga since it began but they started to snowball by the end of the Future Trunks arc to what we have now in the Tournament of Power.
Toyotaro does have some upsides, but overall I think the manga would be better off in the hands of another mangaka.
I dont see how or why, the source material (the anime in this case) is absolute shit, the story is terrible, the new characters are terrible, they ruined the old characters, they teared appart everything that was established in db and dbz etc.... This was a cash grab from the beggining with a bunch of new transformations to sell merchandise and new characters with cartoony and childish design and plain 1 dimmentional childish personality to appeal to kids. Dbz was a simple anime but it was good at what it did, the whole "new stronger enemy appears main characters get new transformation" formula couldnt be any more streched than it was on dbz, the show should have ended in cell saga, buu saga was already a stretch; now to do an entire new anime with the same tired formula but actually 100000000000x worse in every possible way than the original is just stupid and if you actually like db super you have no taste at all and you would watch literally anything that came out with the db name on it.
It wouldn't be better in the hands of another mangaka. The reason why the ToP is so rushed is because he HAS to end it before the movie comes out in December, to promote it with the first chapter of Broly saga. This deadline is forcing him to rush through this saga.
Toyotaro has a lot of talent, but I think he should be drawing the panels individually digitally and have someone else take care of the pacing and spacing.
Predated O Dude, he has to finish the ToP before December. How tf would he be able to do that without rushing?
Tricko again: *he should be drawing the panels individually digitally* and have *someone else* take care of the pacing and spacing.
He would be drawing the panels anyway, having someone else take care of the pacing would be saving a lot of time.
Really good points Mark! That was some really good commentary on page composition that I haven't heard before (and that's after reading that book about how to draw comics!) so nice work there. Toyotaro could definitely use some pointers on such things, and as far as his "bad drawings", he's probably way overworked (like most mangaka). I know how long it takes to create a single page of a detailed manga like that so I'm sure quality goes out the window as the burnout sets in.
tbh many big name manga artist has been tracing
it just wasnt surfaced because there was no internet back then
for ex.Slam Dunk, Hokuto no Ken, etc
This video correctly squashed the red herring of the reference drawings and showed that Toyotaro's problem is not necessarily the drawing, it's his lack of imagination and weak composition compared to Akira Toriyama. We should not expect Toriyama because it's not, but the problem is that he's trying way too hard to make this _Dragon Ball awesome story._
It's like when you read Faulkner and try to write like Faulkner, but you lack the writing talent of Faulkner. You probably know grammar well enough, and able to put some style in your writing, but that's not enough to have _one sentence_ extend for seven fucking pages and not be a run-on (Faulkner's _The Sound and The Fury_ for those interested). You're trying too hard to replicate something you see, but you lack the skill to back it up and/or the [complete] understanding to know why it worked in the first place.
Hasan Abdul-Jabbaar well said man
You are simply butt hurts that's all manga is written by toriyama himself toyotaro only does the colors..
KAI the invincible
Edit: Lol the only people who use the term ‘butt hurt’ end up being the ones butt hurt.
I don’t think anyone cares. I hope not anyway cause _Dragon Ball Super_ is not that good for anyone to care. Plus what you said is not true.
@KAI the invincible wow you are a fucking moron
Akira toriyma is a master and his panels are fucking legendary.
The Moro arc has actually addressed a good amount of this
nah it still shit
@@ggh_-ts6pn Stfu. People can have opinions.
@@TheMilkMan716 if so why did you say a bad word cuz he doesn’t like your opinion lmao.
The idea of ever page having a cliff-hanger (at least every action page) is actually pretty interesting. I guess that's always been why I preferred adventure or slice-of-life comic books over action ones, a lot of action scenes in comics rarely have the same drive to keep me wanting more, so I get really bored of them quickly.
They literally gave a fan fic writer his dream job and you didn't expect him to fuck is up?
This video was very good! I like how toyotaro draws, he definitely knows how to draw dragon ball and yeah, T.O.P was very bad, same with battle of gods, but time has passed and i'd like to know your opinion of the new content the manga has under this perspective, i know you liked the moro and granola arc already, but it would be cool to know how much better he has gotten under your perspective :D
Nice video!
5:24
Supreme Kai on the motorcycle be like
*VROOM VROOM*
It’s kinda funny. I feel the same about Hunter x Hunter, yet it’s one of my favourite series of all time and Togashi is one of my favourite writers. But good fucking god.. 1 page from the manga can be it’s own book with how much detail he has in it. I sometimes stop reading to take a break because of the word vomit all over the place.
Every little thing in HxH is thouroughly thought out by Togashi as part of the culture and personality of each character. Unfortunately, he rides that horse way too long sometimes
GiLLyeXp My hero academia has many chapters like that, but the author knows how to balance it by giving and entire next couple of chapters with huge well drawn panels
You can't really apply the same philosophy to HxH. DB was always a simple battle shounen at its core, HxH was never about the fights.
@chrisff1989 you can definitely still apply this "philosophy" to hxh. You could apply it to any manga, it's just the composition of the pages. why couldn't you?
I mean the philosophy of "less is more". With HxH more is more.
Great editing 👏
Upload another Black Clover video right now!
@@jantheking7028 this comment was made a year ago and stop being so demanding
@@immortalflames7149 Shut up JIGGGGGENNN
Im joking bro, chill out, I was just taken by suprise that so few people replied to his comment, so I wanted to be the first
Great Name
Agreed abd
The Super Manga is drawn like how Anime extends out Manga scenes with reaction shots and filler. Which.. I guess is kind of accurate.
How do you feel about how the new manga arc is going? I think it seems he's improving.
Remember how everyone complained about how long to T.O.P was in the anime and how they can't wait till the manga came in and put the anime to shame. That the anime should only be the adaptation to the Manga............we dodge a bullet there since in the first 3 episodes of the anime(which is like less then 10% of the tournament) have more memoriable moments then so far the manga version(Which by my guess we only have 1 or 2, maybe 3 if we're lucky volumes left so over 50% of the T.O.P is done at the moment)
2 chapters left. As the first week of December, Broly's manga for the movie is gonna be released according to the rumors.
This month, Vegeta will be eliminated and Goku will go Full UI and next month the climax. So more or less 60 pages of the tournament left with around 10 or so for the prologue.
realSSJpro Well, Goku went full UI and got defeated by Jiren in 5 or 6 pages.
@Joseph Poveda I noticed.
Less is more?
I said it on Twitter , I'll say it again....
*YOU. SAVED. MY. CAREER*
Love and Respect , much thanks!
(great work on R&R btw)
Great video! A lot of good point was made in this, I think he fills his pages because the manga is a monthly manga and not a weekly manga
He has improved a lot in moro arc
Toyotaro is a good artist, but terrible at doing Manga, Akiras work is simple and effective, but Toyotaro just Abuses it with Way too many panels and Diaolouge.
@종이비행기 idk man, maybe you are just not used it or reading too fast, if you don't understand action scene reread it carefully and you'll understand it. Shonen manga are generally easy to read because they are for a younger audience. Knowing which order to read panel is hard at first but when it clicks in your brain reading any manga becomes more enjoyable :)
2:58 so basically mastar media?
zilot exa *The Mastar media of the Manga*
I somehow read mastar as mastard and then started thinking about mustard.Now that I think about it mastard sounds like an insult for him.
zilot exa he was just referencing.
Question: why is tracing bad when green screen previously used animation and having them fight good? (That's a genre btw)
HyperX Xforts Killer yes it was traced. Prove me WRONG. Also to backup my statement go search up on RUclips Master Media traces exposed and you’ll see how MUCH he traces.
so the story was rushed while the pages were too full? now that's talent
i think the next arc we'll see a big improvement im sure he's aware of how bad the manga is doing right now
Regarding Toyotaro's skills as an illustrator:
Using references is nothing unusual as anyone who has ever held a pencils of bruce can tell, moreover I don't think he is actually tracing (in fact even an amatour with some skills and experience can copy an image without tracing). The problem is that he is not able to use the refences in an organic and original way: I cannot see his own take and style, he seems more to pick some nice images here and there. In fact, his main shortcoming compared to Toriyama are not single panels (drawings usually look good overall), but the fact that the panelling lacks the dynamism and visual storytelling that make Toriyama's manga great.
Regarding Toyotaro as a storyteller:
I think he lacks focus. There are some nice takes and ideas, but again there is little consistency and the more he tries to fill some plot-weaknesses of the anime, the more he creates internal incoherence. Also it is quite clear that he could not care less about the ToP arc, really rushed and inconsistent. The way like he seems to build up to something that then is suddenly brushed aside (e.g. Toppo, Kefla, Beerus' rivalry with Quitela) gives an even stronger feeling that we are reading simple a bunch of panels sticked together just because.
Gohan somehow keeping up with Kefla after Kale alone was too much for SSB Goku wss probably my least favorite thing so far. Followed by the second worst one: Ignoring Caulifla's character traits entirely and making her say "You guys rock. I cant win".
Dont even get me started on Roshi being able to dodge Jiren. The manga was fun until this arc, but now it feels way too fanfiction-y and rushed.
Caulifa was injured due to freeza and kale was destroying her body so, kefla was not in good shape. Secondly, in the anime kefla felt like a ripoff of vegito , so I liked manga kefla because she was her own character.
Thirdly, jiren vs roshi was illogical.
Xcalibur 1214 Yeah, that's bullshit. Goku and Vegeta were damaged against Buu but when they fused, the damage was not there. And even if that is the case, Gohan had a lot of trouble against the Trio de Danger. They were easily beaten by Frost who is not even worth a finger compared to SSJB yet here we have Kefla being on equal grounds with Gohan. Don't even get me started with Gohan's human power nonsensical dialogue. Anime Kefla is far from being a rip off of Vegito. She's just an obnoxiously overconfident teenager that wants to prove something. Vegito, however, has nothing to prove. He's just there being him while enacting his plans as the situation suggests.
@64kingarthur In DBZ manga, buuhan vs Goku + vegeta never happened. Before fighting buuhan Goku and Vegeta fused. In DBS anime, Goku black arc, Goku and Vegeta ate senzu beans and then fuse, why?
Answer: to heal injuries and so that the fusion vegito could be at his peak of power.
Secondly, Gohan got stronger during the fight with kefla just like all Saiyans get stronger during battles. For me kefla felt like a vegito ripoff.
Xcalibur 1214 Even if Caulifla and Kale were damaged, it wouldn't really matter that much as a fusion. Super canon seems to come off from DB Kai, and even the DBS manga considering it was a promotional manga for the anime. The boost is too big for the likes of Gohan considering how Kale was a bit of a pain in the ass to Goku and Frieza. Caulifla is also a pain considering Frieza had to use his Golden form to prevent taking more damage. But Gohan? No. Complete utter bull. Even if a Saiyan gets stronger during battle, it wouldn't be so exaggerated enough to completely cross the power of a fusion unless it's a literal divine intervention like the SSJG ritual or accumulated training being put to use. This is Frost we are talking about. Someone who while weaker at least put up a short decent fight against SSJ Goku post-BOG. And what did Frieza do? Grabbed his face like what Broly do and toss him out. So for you, Kefla felt like a ripoff. Nothing but a shit opinion that ignores context.
@64kingarthur let me debunk some of your points.
"Even if caulifa and kale were damaged , it wouldn't matter much as a fusion"
You are implying that in Goku black arc, injured vegito would shit on merged zamasu may be you should stop reading fanfics.
"The boost is big for the likes of Gohan"
Are you forgetting that Gohan hurt raditz , freeza in namek arc and became 2nd most powerful z fighter in DBZ. You are just butthurted that Gohan has gotten more powerful but you are not pissed at anime 17 getting to ssb goku (let me remind you goku had years of whis training and goku had god ki base) by fighting fucking poachers for 12 years that even kid goten can handle. This also means that training with poachers>>>whis training?
"Considering how kale was a bit of a pain in the ass to Goku and freeza"
Now let me tell you what happened next kale thrashed fighters here and there and fought against pride troopers who through teamwork beat kale ie kale was breaking her own body due to power and later got injured by fighting pride troopers cabba then saved kale and kefla was formed.
"Freeza had to use his golden form to prevent taking more damaged "
Are you implying 3rd form freeza> Gohan? If you are stop you headcanon bs in the manga . Manga and anime are different in terms of Scaling.
"This is frost we are talking about . Someone who is weaker at least put a decent fight against SSj post BoG Goku and freeza do , grab his face and toss him out"
Hah....the same frost who eliminated a universe and used all his stamina and trusted freeza and freeza betrayed him , caught him off guard and threw him out . This clearly happened in the manga. Also in the manga Gohan was also reserving his stamina by not going all out against the 3 wolfs,,Maybe you should read carefully.
I have a shit opinion and I ignore context huh? But at least I have an opinion unlike fans like you who , instead of reading manga just jump on hate wagon. From you comment it is easy to say fans like you are cancerous and ignore context all the time . Retards like you just see who is fighting who but you don't see under what situation the fighting...... The answer of all your points in the manga but maybe fans like you don't even read the manga chapters and complain that it doesn't make any sense.
Good day
I like The Dragon Ball Super manga,however,he's not as good as Toriyama.
The Manga Went Downhill the Moment SS1 Goku Black was Stomping SS Blue Vegeta.
SS Blue Vegeta had a Sensu Bean and SS1 Black was Overpowering him.
Matt Pac what? Base goku black kicked ssb vegeta in the stomach in the anime and actually hurt him, then he transformed and literally oneshotted both ssb goku and ssb vegeta like 3 different occasions. The anime is not that much better than the manga, both pretty piss poor imo.
@@zgsfreaky9102 SS Blue Vegeta was Holdingg Back. Lol.
Black Blitz him and Suddenly Vegeta was Able to Block SS Rose Attack?
You Do Not Understand That Goku and Vegeta always Hold Back. Lol
Many Claim 17 is Equal to SS Blue.. No he is On The Same Tier as SS Blue Goku. Not Level.
@@zgsfreaky9102 for You To Power Scale You to Understand When a Chracter holds Back.
Matt pac keep crying anime but. Tch manga is better
@KAI the invincible keep being in denial fanboy. A True fan would call out the flaws.
But _Maaaaaaark_ , the manga explains SSR! THAT MAKES IT GOOD!!
*sarcastic comment is sarcastic*
Doodle Dect a gold coin in a pile of trash doesn’t make it any less of a trash pile
Seth Howell *exactly*
But, Prooooto. Oh wait. Wrong video.
Doodle Dect but marssss
Seth Howell that’s literally explaining most of Super (anime) too , but ok. Manga WAS great, it went fucking nuts after the GoD little fight . Too bad, last impressions are the most important thing, look how most people dont even realize that up until episode 34or so from Super, we had like 3 good episodes and only one good fight .
Time Constraints, time constraints everywhere.
Toyo, even if he tries his best, will get dragged down especially because of Toei commissioning the Manga.
They likely want him to get the ToP done with quickly.
That compounds the problems with Toyo.
To get all the information needed in the arc, he needs to compact all that info into many panels per page.
I'm not saying that it's the only issue, however I think that that issue is preventing Toyo from giving the aforementioned breathing room.
Alovon That wasn’t even the issue that he said Toyotaro has in the manga. The issue was Toyotaro over does his chapters. More time wouldn’t help that, what he needs to do is change his manga style.
@@metatron6262 umm, yeah it kinda does.
It prevents him from trying to be more loose and implement Toriyama's advice because, he absolutely has to now.
I'm not saying the time constraints were a problem in previous arcs, those arcs problems were primarily Toyo's alone.
However, the ToP arc is subjecting him to large time constraints, ergo to get it done in time (hint hint, December/January). He has to compact the arc, therfore the art, panels, and story get rushed and squished.
And that compounds on Toyo's other problems.
Exactly. Plus he has to make the manga different enough from the anime to garner interest while simultaneously find a way to have it make sense outside of "he has the will to do it" that the anime kept recycling. Its not an enviable job and one I feel confident almost any mangaka would fail at.
What's more, the fact that he only has a monthly issue with only so many pages allotted to him makes it even more difficult
Alovon you realize Toriyama was constantly on a time restraint drawing and writing Dragonball and because of that his best work was born from that struggle. The Super Saiyan form being one of them.
Rozu, Why are you comparing that? The situation is entirely different because the manga was ahead compared to the now with the manga being behind.
This video basically explained to me why do I haven’t finished the second manga of db super and have mangas 3 to 7 unopened. Really liked the video and think the same.
Funny. I would’ve agreed with you back when this video came out, but then we got two of the best dragon ball sagas in history. Not only that, I’m afraid that when the anime covers the arcs in question. they’ll ruin everything for the sake of MARKETING! Sorry I don’t know what came over me
Nah man you mean the two worst sagas in dragon ball history. They both add nothing to the story and only serve to destroy the little character goku and vegeta had left in super. Also it has more lazy writing, paneling and drawings than any other arc in super. Moro was just a terrible villain and goku giving him a sensu bean just doesn’t make sense, dude probably did cause he thought it would be cool. Then there’s the granolah arc which has just been a mess and has no sense of direction. The entire manga for super is just terrible and I encourage you to reread or rewatch dragon ball and dragon ball z and maybe even gt to see how much gokus and vegetas characters have been ruined in super.
Lovely analysis, toyotaro doesn't need all the word play of them talking about pointless shit. I remember watching a video saying how toriyama was amazing at making his panels move in motion. I wonder what you think of hxh chapters cause damn shit is cluttered nowadays
And it was that reason that I dropped HxH without even finishing the Chimera Ant Arc.
@@byronbrooks6366 yeah the manga is basically unreadable but so much more interesting in anime format.
Totally Not Mark: Embarrassingly right
Well, it's still not bad, but it could be improved. This video does a good job showing how it may be better
2018: Super Manga is Bad
2019:Super Manga is good
Lol true. Also, 2017: Super Manga is Good (Black Goku arc)
Toyotarou removing Hit's Trenchcoat is the worst thing he has ever done
You mean skirt?
That makes it worse
He's not a bad *artist* he's just a bad writer.
Fair enough.
So is everyone involved in DBS.
Raishin Egg cringeworthy how? His style is good for someone who's *not* the original artist.
@@localangrydad2590 yeah he draws good enough to be mangaka. I still wonder what would have happen if young jiji took the job though.
Young Jijii draws a lot better, setting wise and art wise. I think it's because he wasn't around when the auditions happened is why he didn't get to be the artist for it.
This made me think about how in Berserk the word heavy pages were usually very large picturesque panel
I actually quite liked Roshi dodging a punch from Jiren to show Goku what he's talking about. Honestly in those few panels he made ultra instinct make more sense to me than the anime had in the 50 or whatever episodes since Goku first accidentally did it, I especially liked the part where Roshi points out to Goku that it's the same thing every single person who's trained him over the years has been trying to get across, not just some new thing Whiss came up with.
I do agree the pages are too messy in his manga, and those few changes you showed definitely make a world of difference. Though there are obviously people who don't mind a messy manga, I mean one piece is one of the most popular manga going and I remember sitting down once and reading a random chapter, it didn't matter that I had no idea where I was in the story because it was horrific to even try and pinpoint what part of the page my eyes should go to next, it made the pages you just showed of the super manga look clean and empty in comparison.
I also don't mind that he knocked out the majority of fighters during Kale's rampage, again one of the problems i had with the anime during the tournament was it's dragging on and on for way too long with fights that were so inconsequential in my future rewatches I would just skip. Though the super anime is full of that compared to the manga and I really don't see the appeal, during the trunks arc they go back and forth through time, what like 3 or 4 times? During the tournament of power Goku has skirmishes with Jiren like 3 times as Well before their final fight. I mean christ the Freeza saga saw Goku fight Freeza twice, cell he fought once, Buu he fought what two or three times but at least two of those were different forms of Buu. Just having him fight and get beaten by the same opponent over and over doesn't build suspense or make each fight more thrilling, you just lose interest.
The DBS manga is so weak, it makes Yamcha look strong. 💪😄
(Also what did guys think of the new Broly Trailer?)
The Broly movie trailer was so good!!!
Beautifully animated, but the story adapting Minus is going to give me a headache with the people complaining, so I'm muting everything in Twitter.
Yamcha survived baseball from God of Destruction. He's strong.
I thought it was great! I don't really that much about the changes unlike *SOME* people. But so far, I have not been disappointed!
I think toyotaro feels a pressure of sort, mainly because:
1- he is carrying on dragon ball's legacy
2- because his manga is monthly and is behind the anime. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like is trying to wrap the arc up before something happens. I.e., he is on a schedule. Back with dragon ball, Akira did not plan things ahead and had no source material to rely on, so he was more carefree with his story. I think that's why he was more lax with his panelling and pacing.
3- Maybe toyotaro has to work side-by-side with TOEI's anime staff to some extent, and that's why his pacing is affected? Also, maybe it's because he thinks the readers have seen the anime and therefore just want the TOP manga to cut straight to the point with they 'hype' moments? I am saying that because a lot of "secondary" fights in the anime's TOP were not shown in the manga.
4- Lastly, I think toyotaro is doing "too much work" because he also has a smaller workload...? once again, i could be totally wrong because i am not that familiar with page limits when illustrating a manga for a magazine, but 45 chapters a month can only express so much in comparison to a weekly manga. A weekly manga has around 17 pages, which is around 68 pages a month. Maybe that's why weekly manga can have a slower pace than a monthly one?
I apologize if my points are all jumbled up, but these were my thoughts when watching the video. I also really felt that ToP was very concise in comparison to the anime, which I was not a big fan of. Not giving fights enough room does not allow the intensity and stress build up as they end too soon, which is why I was not so hyped reading them.
Also, I loved your edits! Indeed less panels do make it seem more enjoyable! Would reread DBS if someone did that to it all.
Great video like always :)
Oh damn, rip. I mean the Cell/Zamasu thing people probably just washed that off as a 'homage' at the time, probaly because it was the Future Trunks Arc and that's when any goodwill he had offically began to take a knock. Though in light of everything else...Eh...
Also when I draw, a lot of the stuff you said makes sense which I been keeping in mind as well. Making every page or rather the last panel feel like a cliff-hanger to make the reader wanting to keep going. Trying not to spend too much time on dialogue, yet if it's there atleast be relveant and not something that's easy enough to figure out by just observing the characters your self.
8:00 that manga was angel heart it really good
YoungJiji's Dragon Ball AF was better in the first place
DBS is just so weak in every aspect.
tensionless stories, uninteresting opponents, useless transformations, bad art design for manga and anime.
Young Jijis Dragonball AF manga should have been the new canon of DB right from the start.
It has a interesting plot, great new characters, actual reuse of beloved characters, emotional weight and well deserved new transformations.
I just cant stand how every arc of DBS just feels like a happy, little side quest with unnecessary jokes thrown all over it.. It almost feels like filler alltogether.
theres more than one dragon ball af?
@Cas ual Zamasu is a uninteresting opponent ? Are you kidding me ? Almost the whole arc of Zamasu was great, the only bad thing was the end ... Same for the Universe 6 arc...
@Piotrowski Gabriela You talking about a few "good" episodes out of a whole show..
@Cas ual I am talking about the manga lmao
I never understood why people get so upset that Roshi is the reason Goku learns Ultra Instinct. It makes sense in its own way. U.I. is the mastering of all Martial Arts, right? Learning to move without thinking. Well, Roshi's been training for more than 300 years or so. He should be well on his way. It's dumb that it just happens for no reason other than for Goku to copy, but it still makes at least a little sense. And that's always been Goku's thing; copying and improving on what he sees other people do.
Ultra Instinct Roshi is my favorite thing from ToP manga. It's a good equalizer for power scaling without bumping numbers.
I think the same but he could have done that on a weaker opponent, jiren it's just too much...
Michael Massey the anime is better, nobody needs an explanation, only nerds
Michael Massey I get what you are saying and I somewhat agree , but the thing is: they could’ve used literally anybody other than the top 3 of U11. Fucking JIREN is stronger than a GoD , it doesnt make sense an earthling (without UI) would be dodging Jiren. But yeah, the was Goku learned UI from Roshi and remembering his past masters(almost like if it was planned, which is cool be we 100% know it wasn’t since this is Dragonball), IS FAR better than him just “oh , guess I won’t die then” and resurrecting from oblivion with a powerboost and the skill to dodge instinctively....however the anime was a lot more entertaining, the manga lacked suspension
Oh yes. Roshi a mere Human was easily able to master it while beerus who is a super old god of destruction is unable to do so. Sure.
It’s insane how much more readable your edits were. They actually made sense and got me hyped, Toyotaro can draw dragon ball really well! But as a mangaka... he’s not the best.
Thanks man I always felt bad for not liking this new manga but I couldn't put my finger on what exactly it was, this was helpful in articulating the lack of visual appeal
Your argument about panels is a little flawed since Toyotaro's manga is a monthly one and Toriyama's was weekly. A lot more dialogue and content needs to be crammed into the Dragon Ball Super manga per chapter as it tries to stay relatively faithful to the anime's outline.
Wow, I never realized how much skill and knowledge went into organizing your panels for a manga or comic. Definitely shines a light on how important and complex this type of work can be. Thanks for the brief lesson!
But this was examining more so the action sequences. What about parts in the story where you want to have character speeches or lengthy conversations? How do you make those interesting without cluttering the page?
When you have just 2(or more) characters talking, you can use more interesting angles to make the scene less boring while still using the principle that less is more, for example: making a big panel when a character is revealing an important information or shaping the form of each panel to fit the rhythm of the conversation(smaller, irregular panels for a very heated argument for example).
To learn you have to study references directly, then implement without a direct study, then shift the perspective to fully grasp a pose.
What I mean is if you want to draw a flexed bicep you study a picture directly. You draw what you see. Then you draw the same without looking at the reference so that you form the composition and details from your own mind. Then you apply that to what you already know of the arm and change the view point for the same pose. Instead of from the side you draw it from the front or a diagonal angle.
Changing things up like this is how you learn anatomy as well as the universal skills of composition and space that are key for all forms of art.
Toyotaro was clearly on step two. There's minor referencing but things are so off and different that he's clearly drawing a lot of the character from memory. He saw the pose, liked it, and tried to make something similar. Very different from a direct tracing but still a bit too raw and unsure to say that he's in a stable and confident place with his poses and compositions. His art has a lot of room left to grow stable and reliable in proportions, control of space and foreshortening, and building scenes.
The Dragon Ball Super manga was the first manga I've ever read...