Too much handgun power?
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- The US has always led the world in the development of powerful handgun cartridges. From the .38/44 through the .500 S&W Magnum, we have cartridges that dance on the edge of control from a handgun. Can you have too much power for a self-defense round? Even a bear defense round? Watch the video and see what I think.
I was a soldier for 8 years, and a cop for 25 years, over those years I carried several guns, many were regulation issue, beginning with the Model 19 Smith in my early years. Once I had saved enough pennies to afford my own duty carry, I purchased an as issue M1911A1 in the guise of an Interarms Silver cup, which was basically military parts assembled on their frame. She was a good old gal and served me well. I stayed with the .45 ACP as a duty gun till I retired in 1993. I still have my old duty gun, an Astra A-100 in .45 ACP, it served me well and I always qualified either 1st or 2nd on the qual scores, I also have a conceal carry short M1911A1 that I use when I want to go to the city where a gun is almost compulsory now hopefully this will improve with the Trump move to deport the criminals who were let in by the Biden Crime Family.
Well done! I am an outdoorsman and at 76 years old, I still spend a lot of time in the woods. When my children learned I was moving from Washington State to Montana, they decided I needed a powerful handgun to defend myself while outdoors. For Father’s Day in 1989 they presented me with a 4 inch Smith & Wesson 500 magnum. Lol. A very thoughtful gift for sure! The gun has a lot of sentimental value. That being said, I carry a 10mm 1911 90% of the time when hiking, fishing and hunting. This is a great video. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
Glad you enjoyed the video.
I did a reply several days ago and where I mentioned that my children bought me a Smith & Wesson 500 magnum. I put the date down as 1989. I’m losing it. Lol. It was actually 2009. I actually had father’s Day 2009, engraved on the gun. Sorry for the mistake..
@@jimseaman2558 Hey, things like that happen to me more and more every year!
You have a great family that loves you! They just didn’t realize that carrying .500 might have wrecked your knees!!! lol
When the FBI adopted the 10mm, it was too hot for the average agent...thus the adoption of the " attenuated 10"..the .40 S&W.
I've had 357's the majority of my life and have never felt under gunned. Like he mentioned it's about the right ammo for the application. Good vid 👍
Yep!
Good evening from Brazil my brother in arms, here we don't have problems with four-legged animals, but we have many problems with two-legged ones, haha, excellent comments regarding the calibers, I personally use 38 in my 85s and 9mm with my g2c. Thanks for the video, your honesty is very relevant. God bless the Americas 🇧🇷🤝🇺🇲🙏🏻
I guess I'm mistaken for having been under the impression that civilians owning "military" cartridges like 9x19 was prohibited?
Thanks for the kind words ... stay safe!
@@MijitB
That's really it, our government prohibits civilians from owning calibers above .380 and .38, only agents of the police forces, army, navy, air force, can own calibers above 9mm,But, even with a small number of weapons. I will give an example, I am a retired police officer, I can have two weapons of restricted caliber (above 9mm) and two of permitted caliber (below 9mm) same rule,to the police officers who are still active. The civilian citizen only has two weapons. It is difficult to explain, I hope I managed, that Google Translate did its job correctly,😂. Our gun laws are horrible, and today they've gotten even worse with this tyrant president and his supreme court henchmen.
@@marciocumpiancumpian2075 Yes, you've explained yourself well. What are the laws regarding civilians with shotguns? I thought I'd seen a video of a Brazilian with a 12gauge break-action pistol for snakes on the jungle paths
I appreciate the detailed history! I get a laugh from how people call me a "fudd" for carrying a 45 Auto - I'm told how a 10mm is able to knock over buildings, etc...Well, power factor, momentum and TKO is actually quite similar between the two - depending on ammo selection. I have several 10mm's as well. And I live in Griz country - MT. The majority here carry a Glock 20 like you say.
For defensive purposes studies show a sweet spot for velocity - enough to reach expansion threshold - yet slow enough to get adequate penetration and avoid fragmentation/jacket separation.
I have an upcoming video showing how to calculate KE, Momentum, TKO and Hatcher RSP. I think you will find it interesting.
I switch my recoil spring in my 45 Government model and carry 255 grain hardcast rated at 950 FPS from Underwood when I’m out in the wilderness. I also carry bear spray. I find that to be good enough for me at a minimum. I find your videos extremely useful. Thank you!
Glad you like the videos and stay safe!
Incidents with dangerous wildlife happen at the speed of a gun fight with a bad guy.
Too much power is when the muzzle rise is keeping you from sending another round on target in a self defense situation.
Excellent video and good advice. One point I would like to add: I am a CCW holder and never in the woods. Any enemies will be two legged. I love 357 Magnum, BUT, the drawback is sound energy. I am NOT one those guys who says 'better deaf or tinnitus than dead'. No thank you. So, I mostly carry my Sig P220 .45 and a Sig P380 (.380), both of which have sound levels that may ring your ears a few hours, but will leave you AND bystanders without tinnitus. I used to have some ear plugs in my pocket when I carried 357 Magnum, but truth is, I would not have had time to place them in my ears. I also do not want sued by other patrons in restaurants or movie theaters! If I carry my beloved 686+, I load it with .38 special...often with the first shot being snake shot, to ward off assailants without killing them...or unwelcome critters at my BBQ.
Interesting thoughts, I hadn't considered the sound level when choosing a defensive round.
Good points. Coincidentally Chuke just released a video of discussing 223/556 use against bears. Competency, reliability, and ideal bullet type have always been 3
of the top factors in winning a life or death fight. Those are 3 things we can also control and maintain in the face of market availabilty and even peer pressure. I have extensive test protocols for all ammo i intend to use and I've learned that market trendiness and pricing don't always transfer over to reliability in the intended firearm, and this tends to really present itself when it comes to the top end of powerful calibers, it becomes a rapidly expensive endeavor with much less margin for error. Combat at arms will always be a smart man's game. Good video, keep up the discussions.
Good old arkoudaphobic Chuke
I don't know about other people but I am constantly changing my mind on which caliber I think is best for self defense. I know it comes from lack of experience, which leads me here and to other discussions about such.
Let me tell you how the internal argument gets going in my head
- We start at 9 and after some reading and considering don't feel that it's adequate enough and decide to go larger to 40/45/10. Then after a bit of tossing that back n forth will end up deciding concealability is the most extreme factor thus going down to 32/380. Then after worrying about power, back to the 9 and the cycle repeats itself. And don't get me started on if a revolver should be added into the mix.
Thank you for all your videos and the open sharing of what you have learned.
Love your videos, Dick. I'm a big 10mm and 30 Super Carry fan. Happy to see you've spoken about both. Stay safe!
Looks like I need to cast my vote for you.
Thanks for the vote!
As a church defender, I prize reliability along with precision and accuracy. Currently, my church gun is an S&W Performance Center full size 1911 shooting 185 grain Hornaday Critical Defense. It's the gun with the frame side cuts. That gun is an absolute laser with those loads, even out to 25 yards. Ive tried it out with several different loads and it feeds great.
My church backup insists on carrying a S&W 686+P with 357 rounds.
Check out the Barnes 45 in 185+p is way better than junk Hornady. the expansion is bigger too
And definitely for your 357 the Barnes Ammo works real good for 357 just look at the test RUclipsrs are doing
God bless you for protecting your church. In my early research into active shooter incidents almost 1/3 occurred in church facilities and that trend continues.
@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Thanks man. Ive finally convinced our priest to formalize our church protection. We're having a formal trainer come in, survey the premises, come up with a plan followed by assigning of roles and responsibilities then role playing and rehearsing.
Ive got three other defenders besides me. I'm usually at the entrance or out in the parking lot. We figure the best plan is to directly engage outside the church.
@@TheRealZJM377 I worry about over-penetration. I'll stick with my known quantity of Hornaday.
Thank you for your service sir I hope your aim is always true and whatever you're pointing at falls to the ground and capacitated so you are safe thank you for your wisdom.
I am really enjoying having found your channel.
Glad you like it.
You got some real knowledge about the evolution of these power cartridges, thank you for your wisdom and your insight.
Depends on the shooter.
Some people can shoot anything!
when "out and about' i carry my ruger redhawk 5.5" 45 colt.
partnered with my winchester '92 carbine in 45 colt.
both shooting, buffalo bore, hsm, grizzly, cor-bon, double tap, or underwood, heavy 45+p colt loads.
handy handgun, handy carbine, powerful loads that work in both firearms, perfect.
with this combo, i can take anything in north america, and much of the rest of the world, four legged, or two legged.
40 for the hood, 10mm for the woods.
The Colt 1911 in .45 acp got my dad through North Africa, Italy and France, and it got my uncle through the Pacific Islands. Let me tell you they had some "war stories" that more than likely weren't BS. I have carried a 45 for a very long time. My CZ75 is super accurate, but it's a 9mm.
They made a 97B and BD too.
Good video presentation. I would agree with the use of 10mm in Griz or Big Brown Bear country. As an avid fly fisherman in northern New England, the only danger might be 2-legged bad guys or maybe 4-legged Black Bear or Mountain Lion. 2-legged bad guys are rare in the New England woods with Black Bear more likely. Although when fishing, I have seen bear scat and tracks, I have never seen one appear by the streams I fish. I'm sure they are there but my noise and scent will most likely keep them at a distance. My daily carry is a 1911 government size in .45 acp. Kimber TLE II. I feel this is more than adequate for my potential dangers here. I have carried the 1911 for years and see no reason to change unless I were to visit MT/WY or AK where a 10mm might be a better choice. I train regularly and practice regularly with my 1911 and the .45 acp is my preferred defensive round. My carry ammo is Federal HST 230 gr JHP and that works for me and the gun. I've never cared what people think about me carrying a 1911 with 8-round magazines and one in the chamber for a total of 9. I'm a civilian who's not tasked with catching bad guys, just defending myself and my family.
You have my NRA vote Dick. Thanks for the heads up.
You’re absolutely right. In CC Defensive as well. Modern 9mm defensive loads are not just “adequate” but the right mix for a CCW, since most defensive training involves consecutive paired shooting, the desired effect being initial penetration, substantial flowering and expansion and ultimately “correct” penetration. As you say though more power is often better, particularly in home defense where printing is not an issue. (Understand, printing is not necessarily an issue because one may not want to raise public eyebrows, but because often a lethal offender out in public exhibits certain behaviors such as casing and the advantage of the ambush. A CCW defender also has an advantage of being unknown, if he does not print, and thereby able to execute the counter-ambush. If you print and the perp sees your weapon while he’s casing the environment then not only have you lost the advantage but you’ve made yourself the first target.)
More power in the home, 10mm for example, is better contrary to conventional defensive theory. Over penetration theory. It doesn’t work practically. Why? Because there are two types of home invaders, those who run at the first bang, and those who do not. They fight. Those who run, that’s the desired effect. You’re not the police; your intention is to stop the threat by the perp going down with the defenders first shot, or by the perp running at the mention or sight of a gun, or by the perp running at the first report of a gunshot. That’s fine. All three. But what if they want a gun fight?
What about those who fight due to drugs, ego, or gain no matter what, even if they have to kill? The fatal flaw committed by lethal perps is universal. They confuse concealment with cover. In a gun fight, they often play peek-a-boo shooting. They hide around a corner, behind furniture like a couch or cabinet, around a partially cracked door. Then peek out and shoot. That’s the gun fight - if they don’t run.
That is where 10mm shines. “Guessing” the upper toros center of mass behind concealment is actually quite easy based on very little information, like 1/3 of a head and a forearm with a gun sticking out from around a corner, or popping up from behind a couch or a chair.
The last thing that goes through the perps mind when he tries to take that pot shot around the corner is “drywall” as five rounds of 10mm bust through the wall into his flesh.
He may be even more surprised when the rounds go through the couch he is hiding behind - perps think the material in a couch is armored steel. Point being, there is a reason for that added power. To contend adequately with objects that are concealment not cover and retain sufficient energy to down a crazed gunfighter.
Good points.
The biggest issue I see with gun "experts" on the Internet is that their testing is usually just shooting at targets and comparing penetration.
More accurate testing would be something to the effect of having all your gear on, getting your heart rate sky high, and drawing on a moving target to see how fast & accurate you can be.
Nothing again the big magnum folks, but I would assume that , like you said, it's more ego driven than anything else. I carry a 9 with hard cast in Utah or my .357. Both can be shot fast and accurate. Also I've never shot a charging bear so who the f*** knows how I'd actually do.
I live on an Island in Alaska, it is a black bear island with a dense concentration of black bears.The 10mm is about ideal for this situation. Now that some " boutique" manufacturers are loading 10 mm to its potential our bear pistol issues are solved.For two legged issues a different projectile construction would be optimal, but isn't practical so a solid copper projectile is the consensus on the island. You did a wonderful video. Music to my ears.
Thanks for the kind words.
You do speak truth. I like my Dan Wesson 44 mag. I have shot a 500 Smoth and did not think it had to much recoil. You are right when you say that a smaller caliber or lighter recoil can be fired quicker.
The Shoemaker interview about defending his Alaskan fishing clients, against a Brown bear with hard cast loaded 9 mm, was interesting. Aside from him being completely calm and focused, he said he shot at the bear in the same way he would have used his heavy rifle.
I spend every summer and spring, hunting and varmint shooting in Montana. I know from long past experience of the ability of hard cast to penetrate deep and straight. I've moved away from my 44 with the old JD Jones hard cast handloads to the 10mm.
I've seen a few grizzlies, and they were just out doing their thing. I was with a buddy who was calling coyotes, and a mountain lion came in to about thirty-five yards. Been fairly close to a few wolves, and a couple of moose. All were just being critters, but it's possible to stumble onto something biggish, and surprise it.
Like a Bigfoot?
I carry an H&K P2000 chambered in 357 Sig . It is light to carry. It tends to make people fall down and leave others alone.
Great info and thank 👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍
Agreed 100%! Carrying those bigger calibers, is a status symbol..."look at me, I have a .44 magnum"...
I carry a stock, Springfield Armory .45 acp 1911A1, mil spec defender model. I use federal 230 gr JHP, as my carry ammo, and I feel this caliber is still sufficient for a personal defensive firearm. personally, as a former National Guard member, racking the slide of a 1911, makes the sweetest iconic sound. Bigger isnt always better... Dalton wasn't big in movie Roadhouse...everyone thought he should have been, but he got the job done. :)
PS..I absolutely love the intro music for the videos!!!
Just found your channel, sir. I'm enjoying it very much.....mostly due to confirmation bias :)
Great video sir I carry a glock g20 gen 5 and I also carry the Smith and Wesson 460 magnum and the 500 magnum also the 357 sig is a wonderful edc 125gr speer gold dot thank you again from montana
Great video! The Ruger Red Hawk .357 eight shot revolver, loaded with 180 grain Buffalo Bore ammo seems to be a good compromise, also.
Bought a .32 H&R mag as soon as they came out. Worked on the road a lot back then,stayed in a lot of cheap motels. Wanted something in the room that wouldn't go through the person who just broke in,the wall and,into the poor guy in the next room.
Much better ammo that's available now makes that not as big of a concern as far as bullet selection.
Whatever you choose for the situations you intend to use it for, practice with it as much as possible.
Ported .44 Mag revolvers are a game changer, imo... Plenty of power for grizzly defense, with the right load, and the recoil is mitigated. With enough practice, follow-up shots are good too.
Very informative video. Thank you for your input and advice and your knowledge. Me personally I carry a Mossberg MC2sc for urban self defense and a Springfield XDM elite 10mm when I’m out in the woods for a hike.
Hooray ! The first mention of .38/44 I have heard on RUclips in 11 years. I first heard of these in one of Raymond Chandler's Short stories can't remember which one but it ended up as the full length Lady in the Lake. I think the cop carrying it was Al DeSpain.
Mostly I agree. Most peoples ability would top out around 40s&w 10mm 45acp realm in their ability to use and drive these with some level of proficiency.
If weight and size isnt an issue than the 44mag revolvers using 44spl are attractive. Those 460 3" and Ruger Alaskan revolvers are downright easy peasy to use with the palate of 45colt loads available to people which run from cowboybaction level to moderate power which can pass thru bear to bison. Revolvers have that level of versatility.
Again thank you for the thoughtful presentation. Excellent information to consider.
460 Rowland started out as a wildcat called the 45-308 - as it was a cut down 308 case for strength. It was specifically designed for Grizzly bear protection. 460 Rowland is basically a slightly longer case (so to not be loaded in the wrong 45ACP) version of 45 Super.
Re: Rowland you may as well add a beavertail on a 1911 and get the hydraulic buffer too. It’s a great round!
Part of the problem back then was heavier steel, I'm told, in car bodies.
They were definitely built of heavier stuff back then.
Again, I completely agree with your comments
We think alike
I have been listening to many of your videos in recent months
Just started watching... I have a Colt Official Police from the early 60's... but back in the day, Colt actually marketed against the Smith & Wesson 38/44 stating that their Official Police of that time could handle the same loads given that they are built on 41 Cal. frames. Just a footnote.
Now that weapon you have is a nice one. I remember watching an old police training video where officers had a gun like yours or alot like it were shooting from the hip at a distance of 30 yards, not 30 feet, and getting fist size groups. I certainly cannot do that with either of my 9's
No doubt about it. The Colt OP’s were good strong guns. And maybe in there day they were the best bag for the buck.
Another EXCELLENT video, thank you sir. I want to mention a firearm/ammunition combination, that has not received much attention, but which I deserve merits more.
Specifically, full size (five inch barrel) H&K USPs chambered in .45 ACP - and featuring H&the USP’s legendary structural strength plus its USPs patented recoil reeducation system - are able to shoot the .45 Super without a new recoil spring or magazine. In fact, H&K indicates USPs (such as the .45 Tactical) can fire Supers without any concerns for structural durability and reliability (personally, I carry the .45 Super when (each Summer) I’m at a wilderness camp between Antonio (CO) and Chama (NM), but I rarely fire it and I return to .45 ACP whenever it’s wise to so so)
Okay, this means 12+1 capacity, in a Super of one’s choice, and the accuracy, reliability and durability of a USP with a 5.1 inch barrel. Is this the perfect “major critter” defensive system? Probably not, however, it has a real advantage because this is also my home defense sidearm and I can convert from one mission to the other simply by exchanging ammunition. Furthermore, I do not risk “too much handgun power,” as I might were I to opt for a dedicated Griz/Mountain Lion specific autoloader.
I have long been a H&K fan, carried a P7 in duty for more than 10 years. I just saw a video from the SHOT show and H&K is bring back an updated (lightened, too) P7. Might have to have one.
When talking semi-auto cartridges... The one you will never have feeding or reliability issues with is the 357 Sig. I prefer a heavier bullet like a 147 XTP in it or a good 124 Gold Dot. Well done video!
I am a 10 mm fan, have had at least one for over 20 years. I live in wild.pig country and feel that a 10mm on me makes me safe. I am also a fan of the 9mm since I shoot a 9mm much more than a 10mm, so I am used to it more. I have heard people using a 9mm on Grizzly and Brown bear, shot placement is key.
Great video!!
🇦🇺😎👍I load my 38 special like I hate my gun 🤣and I get great results ….Ruger GP 100 6”. Great video🇺🇸🏁
Good video. Carry a caliber that you can handle effectively. Also I remember when people were trying to get more power from the 45 ACP. Some were looking for WWII steel cases to handle greater pressure without blowing out at the feed ramp.
There is nothing wrong with 40. Most LE agencies started switching to 9mm mostly for cost reasons, not because the 40 didn’t do the job. Actually, the 40 does the job much better than 9. They also reasoned the bullet technology improved and there was no need for 40. Which is a nonsense reasoning because the bullet technology improved across the board including 40. Which makes the 40 even better. Actually LE shooting incidents showed that only one or two hits from 40 was needed to incapacitate the bad guy (regardless of of area of hits) unlike 9mm when multiple hits (4+) was needed to accomplish the same result. Also, 40 is very versatile for woods carry. It slightly behind 10mm but plenty of sufficient penetrating power especially with hard cast bullets.
40 and “snappy” factor reasoning. Those cops who couldn’t quantify with 40 (snappiness excuse) still couldn’t or had difficulty to qualify even with 9mm later. In other words, the switch from 40 to 9 was done mostly for political reasons by LE agencies to retain them on the force. those cops who simply couldn’t shoot…otherwise they would have to be fired. In their thinking..why not keep them since most police work is about report taking than actual shooting. 40 is a very very versatile cartridge for urban and woods use. This is my personal knowledge of incidents and information received from LE higher ups who were making these decisions.
Enjoy your videos very much!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
as a reloader of many, many calibers and firearms over 45years i don't know it all. all the knowledge and experience I'm still a work in progress.i been studying various pistol/revolver and rifle factory data . I've told many people don't always trust data on there box's of ammunition . always sandbag shooting at various distance . a serious marksman/ rifleman a cronygraph ,even if they don't reload especially long range hunting/ target shooting. its nice to think your rifle is 100-200 fps faster but in it may be 100_200 or more fps slower. papa wishing you well 😊
I’m watching this video while cleaning my new S&W m19-9 .357 Combat Magnum. My first choice for woods carry.
As Always a geat video very informative
You got my vote
Thanks for the vote.
My edc is 44 mag super Blackhawk 3 3/4 inch barrel it's very accurate and has a great trigger
I have a few hand cannons myself, mostly for fun but I do actually practice with them.. they sure do take a lot of practice to be adequate with.
The FBI through incompetence and by utilizing bad tactics ended up in the 1986 Miami Shootout. The FBI stated they were "Overgunned" and had the 10mm developed, but the problem was that none of the FBI agents could handle the 10mm firearm. The last time I went to an indoor shooting range a couple was there with a 10mm. They copied me placing my target at 21 feet but were using a man size target. They managed to hit their target 2 (two) times with 50 shots.
Nice video on this subject. 👍I've listened to men pontificate about how more power (for everything) is better for decades. Truth is the crowd with this opinion is also the ones that have put the fewest number of rounds down range and have the lower skill level. They typically fire one slow shot at a time and don't own a shot timer or ever compete in the shooting sports. I've shot a 454 Casull out of a short barrel Ruger DA revolver. Yes I can hit the target with it...in practice. Not the same when a bear is... bearing down on you. I've shot a 460 Roland with a muzzle break. That's a much more manageable hand gun for bear. I've shot a 460 SW magnum for the bragging rights but that's about all it's good for. Give me a 9mm with defensive ammo for bad guys.
Thanks for the video Dick. Life Member, you got my vote.
Thanks for the vote!
.357 is a real fight stopper.
I really believe that for grown men who don’t have any severe or major disabilities, the 40cal (in a full size gun) is all around the sweet spot for concealed carry .
Its the fight of your life we talking about…..
Good video.. I prefer a 40 for urban defense as I carried one as a street cop for 32 years... Good luck on the NRA run (Thank you for stepping up) I am a Benefactor member and have been in shock at how that organization was run
Thanks for your support. I've been a member since I was 18.
@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I am with you, about age 20 for me.. 59 now..
Another great video, thank you.
Another great video and knowledge thanks so much for your time.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Aside from the power, Deagles and X-frame Smiths are too heavy to be of real use.
I like Randy Garrett’s idea for dangerous critter defense. An all steel revolver with a 4-5” barrel in .41 magnum, .44 magnum or .45 Colt loaded with a heavy for caliber cast bullet at 1000 fps. Very manageable recoil, low stress on the bullet and excellent penetration.
If you convert to a Rowland you can still shoot 45 acp for target etc. and use the higher power for dangerous hunting situations.
@CFurnace-72
The Rowland pneumatic recoil buffer is smart invention. I want to try it out on my 1911. I don’t need full power 460, but I could use the extra ft lbs of energy in a 45 Super/450 SMC. While being able to switch to 45 ACP when needed.
Underwood used to have the xtreme defender in 45 super. That was a good balance between power and capacity. But they discontinued it.
Funny ok even say Remington they went after manufacturers and cause this but yes switching to something else it's lots of risk some are more spicy then most don't realize smokeless or regular and then depending on formula and it may even come a time to make it yourself but especially in precise rifle I only use certain kinds but firearm I can mix it up
Great video! Great advice!
Glad you enjoyed it!
We don't "go" into grizzly country as much as live in it in western Wyoming. They are supposed to be in Yellowstone, but are spread over half the state. Since we are beginning to lose hunters to them, especially bow hunters, most hunters are carrying 10 mm in a chest holster. Problem is that many of our locals run into them on the way to garage at night. Washington and the California-Colorado liberals won't delist them from the endangered list. We seem to still have too few grizzlies and more people than necessary. We would like to gift a few of them to those states.
Great idea!
My EDC is a 629 performance center snubnose stoked with Gold Dot .44 specials.
I keep hearing that the . 40 is dead or "40 will be dead by the end of (insert year here, it's been the same for a number of years now)". But almost every person I know who shoots regularly and is over the age of about 40, loves the 40 and most of them carry it very frequently, if not the majority of the time. Even my mother-in-law likes it. It seems like it's the younger generations that are hung up on 9mm, I guess they drink the Kool-Aid. Don't get me wrong, I carry a 9 a lot because of the small pistol size, but the 40 is still my goto when I can.
40 S&W is great, but it can come down to choices, and economy. If I go to s public shooting area I can collect for free enough once fired 9mm as I want - like literally a couple thousand pieces in a month if not less time. Probably not find 40 S&W brass to reload unless you save for a year or two. Cost compare 9mm vs 40? AS a reloader I like the 40 but dont have one. I do have a 9mm carbine only because the components were all free or super cheap. To me 9mm carbine is minimum acceptable power lol - its why the nazis lost!
The Fawty will live forever
My Glock 22 is my secondary carry gun, love the thing.
I'm not even a 40 guy. I'm sure that people are not being specific or in details when they say,"The .40 is dead". Are we talking about.."new handgun platforms" or are we talking about the 40 caliber in general? From my eyes I see that "new 40 handgun platforms are dead" but the caliber and existing platforms are still alive.
There is nothing wrong with 40. Most LE agencies started switching to 9mm mostly for cost reasons, not because the 40 didn’t do the job. Actually, the 40 does the job much better than 9. They also reasoned the bullet technology improved and there was no need for 40. Which is a nonsense reasoning because the bullet technology improved across the board including 40. Which makes the 40 even better. Actually LE shooting incidents showed that only one or two hits from 40 was needed to incapacitate the bad guy (regardless of of area of hits) unlike 9mm when multiple hits (4+) was needed to accomplish the same result. Also, 40 is very versatile for woods carry. It slightly behind 10mm but plenty of sufficient penetrating power especially with hard cast bullets.
40 and “snappy” factor reasoning. Those cops who couldn’t quantify with 40 (snappiness excuse) still couldn’t or had difficulty to qualify even with 9mm later. In other words, the switch from 40 to 9 was done mostly for political reasons by LE agencies to retain them on the force. those cops who simply couldn’t shoot…otherwise they would have to be fired. In their thinking..why not keep them since most police work is about report taking than actual shooting. 40 is a very very versatile cartridge for urban and woods use. This is my personal knowledge of incidents and information received from LE higher ups who were making these decisions.
The Dirty Harry line where he says “I carry a light special” load in Magnum Force is actually a blown line according to John Millius in the comment option on the DVD. The line is supposed to be Light Magnum or light bullet with a magnum load but “sometimes they get it wrong”
My carry philosophy is similar. The internet has a ton of arguments re: penetration v. expansion, this load, that load, "38 works but only +P, and its a last resort choice" "you need +P+" or "a 380 will het you killed" etc.... One thing I know after 22 years USMC..... Adrenaline makes you, or stops you from doing what you "think" you're honna do.... Less recoil, typically means better accuracy, better accuracy typically means more hits, more hits are typically much more effective than loud bangs that miss...
Given the choice between say an S&W 340PD loaded with 158 or 125s and an 8/9 shot 22 WMR revolver... I'm taking the 22mag, Under and adrenaline rush, I know Imma make more hits with the 22mag....
But when I can only carry a snubby, Ill choose 148 wadcutters over +P. In fancy dress clothe, I'll carry a 32acp... Normally I carry a smaller 9mm....But less "power" typically means more shots on Target, meaning bad guy has a bad day!
Thanks for your service, and the benefit of the knowledge you gained there.
Prosecutors will love your mea culpas.
I train better with semi autos. My revolvers for the most part are either very old models or too expensive to carry . I use to swear by the .40 but find myself leaning into the 9mm nowadays. For self defense I use a common brand of gun, Glock with no modifications and big box ammo. If it ever comes to neutralizing a human threat the judge or jury can be swayed by what was used.
75 members on the board is too damn many. I do not think any other Corp. has more than 15.
I agree completely! 75 BOD members flying to 4 quarterly meetings across the country is a huge waste of $$ right there.
I would use the Dangerous Game Buffalo Bore 44 magnum 265 grain solid copper Lehigh Flat Point in my customized model 329PD. I own an M&P 2.0 10mm too that has also been customized. I carry it on my security guard job.
Bullet design can make up for a lot of any cartridge's deficiencies; an individual's recoil control and shot-placement matter more than any hypothetical ft lbs of energy; if you can't carry it on you, your preferences don't really matter.
With regard to the 10mm and the Bren 10 the real inventors of the cartridge was Norma along with performance/design specifications from Thomas Dornhaus and Michael Dixon who designed the pistol to fire it. As far as Cooper's input into the cartridge, it was likely not much more than a concept in his mind of what the ballistic capabilities should be, but he didn't design it. Cooper's educational background was in English and his real forte was in his writings. He didn't have the technical background to design and engineer a cartridge/pistol combo. I liked Cooper's writings and I still shoot a variation of the modern technique that he developed. However, he was not reluctant to make some claims that were somewhat dubious.
But Mr, Fairburn is once again spot on with this one, especially with the trend toward subcompact and micro compact self defense pistols. BTW you have my vote. About time.
Thanks for the vote. Actually, the first attempt at a 10mm cartridge WAS by Cooper and others in a modifed Browning Hi Power (P35) using cutoff .30 Remington brass. That concept was then moved forward to the Dornhaus/Dixon and Norma collaboration.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb FYI I just picked up another couple of votes over whiskey and cigars with friends. WHEN you get in also do something about those now horrible magazines.
However, I do love a good debate and you're splitting hairs about the 10mm. Cooper may have been involved with experimentation on A 10 mm but he did not invent THE 10mm. Case dimensions are different. Like all things Cooper, I have to take everything with a grain of salt. I will say that the concept of a 10mm was his brainchild, but likely his input was into performance parameters only. If you look at the problems that a big company like FN had with converting the HI-Power to 40 it's little wonder that it failed.
I’ve always thought of the 44 mag revolver as the best overall gun. You don’t need to load the hottest 44 loads in your weapon do for self defense. Anything between 600-800fps is probably good against two legged wolves.
Being close to the border. I’ve had encounters with violent criminal elements. A handgun vs machine guns/assault rifles is never an ideal situation, but a 44 mag will a lot of people think twice. Especially if you’re punching holes through engine blocks…remember that many are aluminum nowadays. It could help you get away in a pinch.
For dangerous game where you have to use a non expanding projectile to have adequate penetration - caliber is a real consideration. 11% better chances to hit the off switch with a 10mm compared to a 9mm is material
A lot of common sense here.
My defensive handgun is a S & W Model 69, 2 3/4" barrel. I use Barnes 225 grain solid copper hollow points. Box says 1300 fps. About 1125 fps out of my revolver. I am filling out my ballot as you recommend, now.
That 2 3/4 Model 69 keeps tempting me ...
my goal is to get rid of the a.t.f.
I always carried a Glock 20, 10mm(15+1 rnds), for bears while I hiked and camped in Alaska. CorBon made 180gr and 200gr deep-penetrating ammo. The 180gr was a JSP, and the 200gr was hard-cast.
I watched a demonstration/competition of professional guides and journo's getting 5 .454 Casull rounds off and on target in 3 seconds. surely hopeful signs for the round in Bear country.
Life Member thanking you for your service to the NRA and your election advice! You’ve got my vote along with the 27 others you suggested. Thank you for the excellent videos!
Thanks for the vote!
Alot of people think the 10mm is SO much more powerful than the 45ACP. True for most factory ammo out there but a look at current 2025 reloading data the Hodgdon annual manual shows the 10mm having more power until you hit a 200gr bullet - then they pretty much match velocity but the 45acp makes a bigger hole. 10mm listed at 1141fps, and the 45ACP (likely a +P listing) shows 1142fps. After that the 45ACP leaves 10mm in the dust....then you can still load even hotter velocity for 45ACP+P and 45 Super. Learn how to change out spring weights (Wolff) and a 1911 in 45ACP is about as good and versatile as it gets
It boils down to how much powder and how heavy a bullet.
A 10mm can hold more powder than the .45.
I would not try those reloads in an 1911 that did not have a ramped chamber .
@@loquat4440 Do you have any actual experience with the loads listed? I do - and they are listed under 45ACP - its not listed as 45 Super or as even +P though they likely are.I've been shooting the CFE Pistol with 200gr #68SWC publiushed load for about 10yrs now. That said, dont you think Hornady wouldve been already sued out of existence if they were 'dangerous' unless you use a ramped barrel? 45 Super? Yeah wouldnt consider any 45 Super without a ramped barrel - but these are not even close to 45 Super power. Notice Hodgdon doesnt mention any precautions besides the standards we all operate under as handloaders. I'll also add the max load is 8.3gr. At 7.6gr I hit 1100-1130fps and thats no pressure signs - its good for me.
200 gain 45 +P 444 fpe vs 10mm 694 fpe fairly significant difference in energy. If you're using fpe as a baseline. 694 with 45 sup and 185 grain underwood. Not sure it's worth the upgrade.
@ No I do not have experience with such loads and I likely never will. It is just what I would do. Big boy rules here. 40's with unsupported chambers have blown up using factory loads and there is no reason to assume that the same would not happen in a 1911's with unsupported chambers.
Now once I was firing a 1911 that unknown to me was missing a huge section of the chamber that had broken off from a cheap and obviously defective sarco barrel. I admit that it did not blow up with standard loads, but the shots were going wild. I disassembled the gun and was really surprised at what I found. So a woefully unsupported case may hold together, but it is not something that I would do. I am older now and can afford to buy something safer if I ever want to fire the loads that you are mentioning. I almost never put in the max charge listed in the reloading tables. I have no way of direct measuring pressures and another 100 fps is not usually so critical.
I carry a 9mm at work and I consider it to be inadequate. I think, for me, 357.sig and 10mm are about optimal for EDC. Both calibers can be up or downloaded as needed and with many 357 sig's a 40s&w barrel and be dropped in as desired.
Been shooting for over 60 plus years. And am well satisfied with older standard calibers. I've witnessed dozens upon dozens of weapon and cartridge "Development" from the industry. Most of which is marketing hype and egos. 😏
In the modern era it boils down to what type of ammunition.JHP operates in a specific in and relatively narrow velocity window. Armor piercing ammunition once you attain the desired velocity plus A little margin for error, there’s really not much point in loading it any hotter. Fragmenting rounds same as the hollowpoint specific velocity window. So the question becomes for what purpose do you need more power?
The only reason I'm looking at bumping up to 10mm over 40 is i now live where brown bears are not uncommon.
If I were going into big 4-legged country it would be a Smith 1006 10mm for an auto, or a Dan Wesson 8" in .445 Super Mag. if I chose a revolver. It could run hand loaded .445 or the hottest 44 mag. ammo. It's rather heavy and pretty easy to control. For 2-legged targets a large capacity auto 9mm +p works.
Yes Sir Salute 🫡 AWESOME VIDEO
IF the pistol kicks itself out of your hands, THAT is too much power! With the current lightweight, short barrel, "defense load" ammo, a pistol can be "overpowered" FOR ITS WEIGHT.
One point that is seldom covered is the hearing damage incurred when using high power handguns for defense. You may survive a bear attack using a S&W 500 but you'll need hearing aids after the fact. I carry a 357 magnum and agree the 10mm would be good for brown bear defense without hearing damage.
Tell me about it! Former M1 Abrams gunner from the Cold War days here! Major hearing loss and tinnitus!🤣🤣
I favor a pocket 9x21mm, 500 ft lbs, over any belt gun because the "hand in pocket' draw is TWICE as fast as any belt rig (from concealment). Sub ..45 second for a reaction, draw and chest hit at arm's length, vs .70 second from a ccw belt rig. The reaction time for both is .20 second. So the hand in pocket move is ..25 second, the belt rig move takes .50 second. My load is .45 grs at 2200 fps, a hollowbased, hp, that is slit down the center of the long axis, from both ends, almost in half. at impact it creates two diverging wound tracks. I call it the "Split Nose'. Those big segments tear up a lot of flesh and the overlapping termporary cavities destroy any vital organ tissue that gets 'caught" between the segments as they penetrate.