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Photon Torpedoes-Full Spread!
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Today we take a closer look at the Enterprise D and her unique capability to launch 10 photon torpedoes simeltaneously. How is she able to acomplish this feat of firepower and why is this capability seldom seen on most other ships in the trek universe? So load Photon Torpedoes Bays, and get ready for a deep-dive into the arsenal of the Enterprise D
Alternate title:
Torpedo Bay Watch.
Now I have an image of the cast of ST:TNG in bathing suits running in slow motion.
I'm actually good with that.
No, just no
@@vortega472 Considering how tight the first season uniforms were and how the female cast members didn't get the revised Two-piece uniforms until much later, you probably weren't the only one thinking that
@@weldonwin Skants rock.
@@weldonwin yeah Gene loved those 60s miniskirts... wasn't so fashionable in the 80s/90s
Former submariner here, on our boats the torpedo tubes essentially worked like a giant squirt gun. You would have a ram with an air side and a water side and a tunnel connecting the water side to the torpedo tube. You would put high pressure air on the air side which would push the water slide back and force the water into the torpedo tube launching the weapon.
The bubble head is right.
That's amazing! Thank you for sharing
@@donaldnevgonhapniv3084 Yes, I am.
Something I did not know.
Of my many deployments as a Devil Dog I think that my times being launched in the tiny coffin "sub" were the most nerve racking. RPG, 100 armed targets bearing down on my team of 6..and 4 Army reserves because we weren't allowed to travel without a 50k and of course the 18 yr old weekend warriors were the only ones issued the 50s...sorry for the rant. My point being out of all of the taxi drivers who farried me to and fro Submariners had the biggest balls...also..oddly REALLY good food.
Resurrected Starships claims the original design for the D'deridex had the torpedo launchers on that long triangular section at the top and bottom of the wing assembly.
He also put forward the idea that the warbird could unleash an eight torpedo spread AND fire all its forward disruptors in a massive Alpha Strike, then fly past you and launch a second Alpha strike with its aft weapons array.
Assuming you were still ALIVE by that point, the warbird could then cloak and disengage while they prepared a second Alpha Strike. Definitely in keeping with your take on Romulan doctrine.
Yeah I believe him. But it simply isn't modeled so I can't verify. Buy given the warbirds size it would make a lot of sense.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Misdirection is also the biggest weapon of Romulans too, so there is the possibility that all the ships are tweaked to be at least semi-unique to each commander, no matter how much of a clone of what they seem to be of the same model.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 technically, most ships in trek would end up jousting.
Funnily enough, i base this on 2 trek games. Starfleet gommand (pc adaption if the sf battles "board" game) and klingon academy.
Between players, battles turned into jousts more often than nit, players making preparations and jokeying for favorable conditions.
Actual weapon exchanges before separation were short but intense. With lulls in between to assess, manage and analyze damage taken and done.
The kinda fights depicted in the shows are highly unatural, given the setting.
The whole idea of the cloack would only truly make sense if a lot of firepower could be applied quickly.
Decloavk, make the attack run, pass the target, unload aft weapons and some form of countermeasure go buy a few moments to re cloack. Repeat as needed.
"Sitting there, exchanging blows" is weird.
ya i'm listening to this and thinking: how that would work MUCH better for the romulan way of sneak alpha striking then Starfleet. and the D'dex has plenty of room.
Remember the TNG episode "The Survivors"? Riker orders rapid fire of phasers and torpedoes on the Husnock ship, so they're not all fired in a single spread. This follows that ten second window following a previous full spread from the torpedo bay, but there is no indication on screen that they had to wait that long - they just do so because they're assessing the situation. Each volley fires 6 torpedoes for a total of 12. This does not point to the torpedo bays being unfit for prolonged combat. If they could do this until the ammunition ran dry, that displays the kind of firepower that could wipe out a small fleet. If anything, the weakness in Starfleet torpedo weapons is that they are little changed from 23rd century photon torpedoes and barely more powerful. If the Enterprise-D had a full compliment of quantum torpedoes, it would nearly match the mile long Jem'Hadar dreadnought/battleship in firepower.
One thing I always thought about the Akira pod's arrangement is it might actually have like a rotary *loader* for all those tubes in the pod, load three at a time in each direction, rotate, and be ready to go again, or do a Parthian shot in passing, each set of tubes being able to fire singly, ripple-fire, or salvo as desired, with reloading already half-done at each turn.
With the benefit of being less likely to be taken out by a single shot. If anything they could have taken it further by distributing the launchers across the structure of the ship. Bu5 I imagine maintainability would be better with them kept to a specific location. You might lose a couple launchers to a hit, but you have damage control teams on hand, and with another battle just hours or days away being able to yabk a module off at a forward base and sticking a new one on within 24 hours beats having a dozen locations across the ship that each likely need some attention just for the single tactical system.
@@DrewLSsix Some versions of the Akira specs included a truly ridiculous number of tubes, meaning probably a good number in the saucer as well. I could see putting *a couple* in the saucer, though, just in case of alternate modules or damage like that.
I would think anti-Borg ships would really want to lead off with high-damage strikes to hopefully go for a cripple or better or at least balance terms before the Borg can adapt or hit back, hopefully give them too much at once to adapt *to.*
Prodigy actually showed the Akira torpedo tubes in action.
Another thought would be akin to "Putting All your Eggs in One Basket": One hit and you take out _all_ the torpedo firing capability for that side. In "Wrath of Khan" the _Enterprise_ took that phaser cannon shot that took out the port launcher, but when the time came later on in the Battle of the Mutara Nebula they still had their starboard tube to fire at the _Reliant._ If the Retrofit had a torpedo bay like the D, that one cannon hit would've screwed Kirk up even more than he was by that point.
So the from this, the main reason for the creation of the torpedo spread was the size of more recent starships allowed it but the reload time was two slow against forces like the Dominion and Borg so torpedo spreads went from stacking a single bay to rapid fire out of multiple launch tubes. Yeah I can see the sense in that.
Also I see you are putting your growing knowledge of Stargate memes to good use there. *Jaffa Kree!*
lets not forget it also a huge weakness.
Especially if the tubes are loaded YOUR GOING TO HAVE A eXPEDIANT SAUCER SPERATION if a shot gets through.
even if not loaded a single shot can wreck all your torpedo launchers which is a real danger if fighting swarming attacks like the Dominion uses.
2 torpedoes per second 10 can be fired at ounce per launchers generally in groups which merge.
Honestly, it's amazing that Starfleet even managed to greenlight a launcher like that considering it was the height of the peace and love Starfleet is not a military era.
Can we take a moment to appreciate that torpedo launch sound effect, it needs a video all of its own.
DEWWWWW. DEWWW DEWW DEWW.
Definitely the King "pew pew" sound. 😉 The sound, going all the way back to TOS, was actually used before in earlier films, likely most famously in War of the Worlds. The martian war machines have green tips on their wings that rapid fire energy bolts that sound like Trek torpedoes. If you like the sound, look up clips of the war machines first battle. The sound is heard multiple times in rapid succession as the Martians lay waste to the puny earthling forces. 😜 It's glorious. 😎🖖☮️
Search for "war of the world's 1953 let em have it 4k". 😉 You'll here even more original Trek sounds like those used for phasers and the "rattle" sound as well. Check it out. It's still a great scene today. 😎
Buy a metal slinky, stretch it to full extension, hold the end to your ear, then tap the slinky. Repeat as needed.
Sometimes having options is a good thing. To be able to agro multiple enemies with a spread of torpedoes, to get them to focus on you. To concentrate fire for the finishing move between 10 torpedoes for larger targets or just 3 on a destroyer. To load a variable payload for specialized effect or a specific target, say 3 or 4 torpedoes built around draining shields with an additional 3 or 4 convenventional torps for hull penetration in a single grouping. A specialized ship built around this system could bring a lot of tactical options.
treu but there is the rub as the Galaxy is not a Specialized artillery ship.
The torpedo knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't.
Okay so as a healer class in an MMO, I absolutely love it when an enemy DPS specs into a Burst/Alpha strike as I am always prepared for that, leaving them with no hard hitting abilities whilst I slowly destroy them. 17:30 got me thinking of this scenario.
You know, this comment has such jargon in it that it makes absolutely no sense to me.
Yes 100% especially in ESO. I even got an armor set specifically to counter it. If I’m reduced to 25% health it pops a giant heal on myself and a extreme regen which then allows me to chase down the poor bastard throwing drains on them that just steal health/magicka and give to myself and everyone else in the area. It’s hilarious every time plus works great for pve bosses since I can afford to fuck up or keep a healing going during their heavy damage abilities
Perhaps that's why the akira was designed so differently to stop the borg regenerating by maintaining damage output.
I checked the technical manual to see if it gave any specifics on reload and rate of fire, and wile it didn't exactly, it did say that the launcher could load and fuel 4 torpedoes simultaneously. likely at the same speed any modern single shot launcher could load 1 at a time, or lower burst launcher load 2 at a time. I also double checked how much time there was between ~10 torp volleys vs the Husnock warship, the 1 time you ever see a galaxy class actually shoot something about as hard as it could, and there was a 15 second gap in the vollies, but that was only really so the actors could say their lines, there was no hesitation to fire again after the order was given.
There's no way the launcher needs 10 whole seconds before it has more torps ready to fire, every other launcher would need even more time than that to be ready if that was the case. A galaxy could probably belt off a burst of 4 every 3 to 5 seconds, wile lesser launchers could would have maybe 1 ready to shoot in that amount of time. it would take an akira's number of launchers to exceed the possible rate of fire, the soverign can only match it with its 4 burst 3 launchers and hand full of single shot launchers.
I really appreciate the research you do for your videos.
Riker, “Photon torpedoes ready!” “Dispersal pattern, sierra and fire! - Picard
All I want is to see an Akira class fire off a full spread of torpedoes. If each of the 15 tubes can only fire one torpedo per shot, that's still up to 15 at once. If each can fire 3, that's 45. If each can fire 5, that's 75. All at once. It might be a little less if the weapon's pod between the nacelles is a rotating mechanism similar to a revolver chamber, but still. You wouldn't even need working phasers at that point.
You can with the STO point defense torpedo console, mirror Lexington torpedo console and torpedo 3.
Try old game Bridge Commander. Akira is a badass.
That's my headcanon on the Akira design concept post-Wolf 359.
Pair it with 4-8 Defiants as a group vs Borg. Defiants lead in to punch a hole in the hull with their torpedoes and phaser cannons. Akira comes in behind, starts dumping torpedoes. 4x3 from the pod, 2x3 from the ventral launchers. Starts breaking off its attack run, port or starboard launchers go for another 2x3 torpedoes. Then on the way out, the aft launchers get stuck in for another 4x3 torpedoes. That's 36ish torpedoes. And depending on how it exited its run, the other broadside tube pair could tack on another 6 torpedoes. 36-42 photon torpedoes in a single run, plus whatever quantums the Defiants fired. Toss a second Akira in there maybe per group. 72-84 torpedoes per run plus the Defiants' ones. Let's just chew holes through the cube's innards with these groups from all sides until we hit something important or the cube loses structural integrity.
That scene in SG1 was brilliant and sums up Starfleet so well, geared towards exploration and peace, not war which is what Q was clearly getting them ready for with the upcoming Dominion war
Torpedo launchers. A series of tubes.
To wrap my brain around various aspects of canon, I had always thought that the accelerator sheathed the torpedo in a magnetic field of plasma which helped accelerate the torpedo from the tube (look glowly) and simultaneously aided in disrupting target shields, but the further the torpedo flies, the less cohesive this plasma shell is and the less effective the torpedo is against shielded targets.
This would explain why various ships and take several torpedo hits but shrug them off, while the Enterprise-A could take 4 or 5 and have their shields overwhelmed at close range.
And why the Romulan plasma torpedoes were so powerful but short ranged.
The Enterprise D can use its phasers in the 10 second reload time, so i don't think the reload time is an issue, and in a large scale battle especially with ships closer to each other a 10shot is ideal, also the Enterprise has a single shot rear launcher, and can fire even more just by running over the target to use the rear weapons.
I think venom is right about the sheer size of the Galaxy class, the later ships mentioned are no where near it in size, and even the Enterprise E has a much smaller saucer section, so there is no room for the 2 story building called a lanch bay.
A Galaxy Explorer is meant to be away in deep space for 5 year missions, with little support from starfleet and other starfleet ships, the unknown dangers involved necessitate the ability to fight off multiple vessels, even outnumber the Galaxy class can even the odds with torpedo god spam...
It would not suprise me if the Enterprise F has a multilauncher but exact cannon specs are not detailed
They all have multi-launch systems. Watch "yesterday's Enterprise"...Dispersal pattern, Sierra, and FIRE.
I had figured the ambassador class could fire 3 at most at a time. Thanks for confirming
This is really well thought out and makes sense. Especially that the Galaxy was meant to be big and intimidating to scare small fry off or cripple enemies with their first shot. Shows how adaptable Starfleet really are and how much the producers thought out the world to change to smaller, more tactically viable looking ships in the face of the borg and dominion threats.
Great video and certainly gave me a little to think about, however I do see a use for the burst launcher in a late war Dominion and post Dominion setting. Namely when facing a Command/super ship like the Jem'Hadar Battleship or the Scimitar. For example a Galaxy Wing taking on a Dominion fleet led by a Battleship. The Nebulas and smaller ships escorting the Galaxies could keep the escorts busy while the Galaxies could smack the Battleship with a massive barrage. I realize this is definitely situational and overall the best bet is to go with the more sustained firepower of the later designs but there is a thought
I always get happy with SG1 reference.
Considering the Romulans, they are a fan of Plasma Torpedoes from back in the day. If you watch Star Trek Strange New Worlds, you can see how they build up energy outside the ship and then fire at the front end of their ships.
Fair assessment, you provide valid pros and cons and I agree with final summation. My personal "golden middle" are revolver style loading mechanism for single tube but with rapid fire mode. It could provide in normal mode slightly faster and continuous fire and in emergency situation fast rapid launch of 6 or 7 torpedoes and then longer reload time.
Honestly, I would give such launcher better autoloader system, so instead revolver, which has a lot of wasted space and mass, I envision bustle autoloader - sure, it's a bit more complicated than revolving one, but you get more ammo per launcher mass/volume.
Those are literally autoloader systems that were (and some still are) used in tanks - though no carousel one, this one is shit for long projectiles
@@Jfk2Mr Now it's interesting concept but I would not agree that it would be simpler then revolver loading system. As you mention it would be more complicated and depend on scale could take the same or even more space. I'm also rather sure it would be slower and lack of rapid fire mode. With bustle type of loader only one torpedo could be fired and then loaded, it could provide longer continuous fire but rotating cylinder system could provide faster rapid fire salvo of 5, 6 or 7 torpedo.
@@Galvars I disagree on "slower than revolver" - speed of such depends on torp used and power of engines used, but thing that stinks on revolver magazine is 1) it has to be round, while bustle does not need and 2) you have to have drum, which eats space.
Bustle autoloader on the other hand is pretty much propelled with engine track, to which ammo is attached, thus less restrictive on shape and nothing precludes from feeding 2, 5, 9 tubes from one ammo track
@@Jfk2Mr Thing is that in many cases of cross sections, torpedoes are stored under or above launcher. Whole system already take two or more decks in vertical, putting there a revolver cylinder should in theory maybe lower the number of torpedoes, but not by large margin, yet it could fit in to more or less similar space. Bustle would need to by build behind launcher, so instead of possible mod in to existing structure it would demand whole new construction or radical rebuilding of couple decks. If bustle would feeding more then 1 tube, then it could work faster. But if we have 1 or 2 tubes only, then revolver system would work better. Again revolver system would work similar to moving chambers of gatling system, with indeed proper engines and non collision movement it would load torpedoes faster then bustle system, rotation of cylinder is fast.
Interesting thoughts on its military use for torpedoes. Also since Starfleet must do non-military stuff for the Federation, the large launch bay would also serve very large probes, for SCIENCE!
Oh yeah I may do a video on probes since they are the closest thing to drones in trek and like drones they would come in many shapes and sizes.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 They actually do have drones, at least in the TMP era. The enterprise almost launched a "communications drone" when entering V'Ger , but holds off since it'd be pointless given them being trapped inside
The galaxy ckass is a 5 year exploration vessel, by itself so weapons need to be overkill for unknown hostilities.
The borg fleet fly in WW2 formations and synchronize fire together, giving the effect off multi spread torpedoes with the advantage of having multiple types of torpedoes in the spread.
Great analysis. The intimidation idea makes a lot of sense. The Galaxy only carries 250 casket sized torpedoes too. 25 salvos isn’t much when compared to an early 20th century Dreadnought that was designed for 100 roughly. The modern USS Ohio SSGN carries 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles (much much bigger than a photon torpedo) and is maybe 1/50th the size of a Galaxy.
True. But remember, the Ohio is a war ship. The Enterprise is an explorer. Therefore, less consideration would be given to things like ammunition. Especially given star fleet doctrine in the 24th century golden age. Also, star fleet captains were famous for preferring phaser volleys as opposed to torpedoes. I'm sure the combat variant galaxy refit in the Dominion war held a helluva a lot more than 250 torpedoes. Maybe 10x that amount.
Great video. Looks like the galaxy torpedo system would work better on a starbase, complimented with the single shot torpedos. Plus it makes a lot of sense seeing that starfleet is all about low profile now
AMAZING!
I've always imagined the loading Bay is where antimatter is injected into the torpedo. Where they tried to keep the antimatter in as few of places as possible
These torpedo bays do work well when fighting Romulan war birds when they have narrow window of vulnerability between the cloak coming down and shields coming up. I feal that this shows that Starfleet may had a vague idea of the Romulan D'Deridex existences, no details but that the Romulans had something big and powerful. they also knew, since their Klingon friends also use cloaking tec, even if they could not find the Romulans under cloak that the decloak vulnerability is there and it better to make sure Romulans just "go away" vs slugging it out. For the Klingon cloak and dagger tactics. pop in spam torpedoes then hide. So pre-Wolf 359 this system looks like and is a good idea, excellent for short sharp engagements, that everyone though were going to happen. For drawn out slugging match like say the vs Borg or the Dominion, bad idea.
When you talk about a multi barrel system I would think not in terms of a burst but perhaps a design like a Gatling gun, multi revolving barrels. This means while each barrel can make only one shot at a time another barrels rotates into place with a projectile ready to be fired. This give continuous fire.
@2:50
That has me thinking how a revolver-style magazine fed launcher could have been the intermediate between the late 23rd Century and pre-Galaxy class bays.
Rapid-fire six rounds and then reload them.
Fantastic video. The Galaxy Class had a photo torpedo shotgun!
Really makes me back track on my thoughts that the Galaxy Class was badly under gunned.
I still think burst fire has its place in combo with single fire tubes. Surely burst fire would be a good addition to artillery ships?
In the Motion Picture era Enterprise, according to the deck plans, her launcher is an auto loader in the walls. This was disabled by Khan's initial attack (one of the little red dots on the screen). They had to revert to the manual loader. This is normally used for probes, caskets, and other miscellaneous functions, but can be used for weapons when the auto loader is offline. Also, each tube can hold 4 torpedoes to rapidly fire, one per half second (see ST III). Maybe it isn't the fanciest tool for the job, but it definitely works.
Starfleet Command: "And how will our new peaceful vessel of exploration be able to handle self-defense needs?"
Utopia Planitia: "We've included a continuous-feed antimatter warhead launcher allowing for uninterrupted continuous fire. It can also load and fire ten warheada simultaneously. Oh, and phaser arrays that can core out a planet."
Starfleet Command: "Yes, that sounds like a
proportional and reasonable response."
I really like this analysis because it plays into my view of the Galaxy class as a bit of a white elephant mostly built to impress admirals, diplomats, and politicians.
I always thought that the Enterprise-D employed some kind of MIRV system for its torpedoes, since what I recall was they would initially be shot out as one big projectile that would travel a distance out and then split up into multiple torpedoes, with each warhead having been bound together for the initial launch.
But then what about single launched torpedoes
@@venomgeekmedia9886 We didn't see them firing singles very often. My best explanation was that the torpedoes were magnetically bound together and you could select how many warheads per bundle. This is just my interpretation of VFX from the late 80's mind you
@@weldonwin yeah i can believe that
Photon torpedo shotgun engaged
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"
Also, remember, they didn’t just watch torpedoes out of these things. They also launched like probes out of the torpedo tubes so
Cheers.
Personally I never considered the shotgun/volley gun approach to the Galaxy class torpedo spread. I always contented myself with the idea that the torpedo tubes of the Galaxy were so long that they could line torpedoes up in said tube like the metaphorical peas in a pod and launch them in extremely rapid succession. This would be in similar fashion to the Metal Storm superposed load electrically fired guns. However, this idea of yours, particularly taking into account the size of the Galaxy class and it torpedo bays, I prefer more, though the superposed load might still have utility.
Excellent job!
That's how I considered it myself. They just fire them fast enough that it looks like 5 were launched simultaneously. And as for the Galaxy firing 10... they just stuck a second tube next to the first. Two burst five launches = 10 "simultaneous" launched torpedoes. ;)
I have questions on how the torpedoes aren't yanked around from uneven field strength when thrown down the launcher as a group (or how the center torpedo isn't slower due to the outer torpedoes messing with the field strength for it). But if they found a way to fire multiple torpedoes in a single volley where the tubes treats the bunch of torpedoes as a single entity rather than individual torpedoes.... It becomes a very interesting idea.
I wonder which would be simpler to work out - getting the launch system to treat multiple torpedoes as a single entity when passing through the accelerator coils, or getting the launch timing down enough to rapid fire 5 torpedoes out of a tube fast enough it basically looks like simultaneous launch.
Damn I love an Akira, that or a Nova are probably my fav ship classes tbh, ignoring my name sake of course....😅
Lol, just as you said 'I could leave 10 seconds of dead air here to show you how long it is' there was a 10 sec ad, and it really did show just how long that'd be.
I wonder if the multi launch system didn’t suffer reliability issues from battle damage, with the torpedo tube system being more capable of utilizing redundant loading mechanisms.
Quite possibly
Yet more proof that the Enterprise D is, and always will be, the coolest Enterprise.
I mean, there is a reason the Galaxy got additional launchers and larger torpedo stockpile but I make the argument both have their value. The single torpedo launch spread across the hull can be used to engage a small fleet of small ships while the other rapid-fire launcher that could fire a torpedo spread is better for focusing fire on a single heavily armored target, which is generally large starships.
Which is probably why the Sovereign used a combo of the two. Single torpedoes launch for regular torpedoes and a triple burst launcher for this quantum torpedoes launcher for a single target due to the heavier punch quantum torpedoes. And I make an assumption for the latter part for it stated in multiple technical manuals that the quantum torpedo magazine feeds directly into one launcher, and we see in the movies it fires a burst of three quantum torpedoes almost instantly.
The less-aggressive *appearance* may indeed have counted for a lot with the Galaxy. It's essentially a well-defended town in space, probably you don't want to *look* like you're bristling with attack weapons.
Great video and good info. Glad i found your channel. So for all headphone users just a comment. This is a recorded video and not a live talk. You can edit multiple takes so you can eliminate mouth clicks and noises and redo takes when you take an awkward breath or swallow in the video. I like you're not just reading your script. Like triangular or lore master. Feels like a discussion and makes it more alive. Good luck on future vids
I can't believe you don't watch Prodigy. It's actually quite a good show.
It’s possible such a launcher could work well against the dominion against the attack ships as you could hit a lot of them if lucky.
True but they only have one target to hit... you.
I really enjoyed this video. I really like weapon systems break downs. I'd love to talk to you direct sometime more about that sci-fi universe I'm designing that we talked briefly about a few months back
Photon torpedoes are WMDs, at max yield they can level cities. However we almost never see them used at max yield. They are treated more like artillery shells or explosive bullets. If Starfleet made a smaller type of torpedoes, something between the normal and micro, that had it's max yield be the normal yield of normal torpedoes, then you could possibly fire a burst from a normal sized launcher.
Yeah someone actually suggested that could be used for anti fighter weapons
I think it seemed like a great highly advanced super uber system only Starfleet could develop and partly as a symbol of their sueriority to other races but in war it had it's flaws.
The technical manual says there are 10 forward tubes in the Galaxy class
It's a doctrinal question rather than a technological one. There is something to be said for being able to saturate an enemy's defenses in a single burst of fire. Especially against weapons as accurate as phasers are.
Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, but I thought in Wrath of Khan they had all those crew operating the torpedo room because of the battle damage they had at that point.
Great video I hope your feeling better i personally prefer energy beam weapons
The launchers on the Galaxy class are basically giant reusable rifle cartridge. You can even see the basic cartridge shape in schematic. It's a giant shotgun. Also, the projectiles are vastly superior to TMP era weapons. Both in yield and range. Also, remember that the Galaxy class actually has three of these things. Pretty brutal.
My favorite trek ship next too the voyager and defiant class and the Prometheus class
What about a combination of the two? The circular arrangement left space in the center for either a pair of single-shot tubes or if you're wanting to go decidedly tactical, a quick-firing tri-barrel rotary configuration. Given that we're capable of such nowadays, it stands to reason that the gang in gold could make it happen, possibly in its own dedicated pod housing. A refit to an Akira or a tactical-focused Luna could serve as a testbed.
The yield and spread, something I never understood and forgot about it, oh. Now I'm worried about the issue.
I always thought the torpedoes just fly by their own means and not much more. 🤔 How complicated a launch system you described 🤯
Torpedoes launchers were originally just tubes and the warhead accelerated away from the ship under its own power. But the klingons used magnetic acceleration to increase range and the speed of the projectiles
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I believed that just like a normal old good submarine, but then the magnetic stuff 🤯🤯🤯🤯
The multi launch systems in that era of Trek have a combination of the "weapon of terror, not weapon of war" approach, and the "solution looking for a problem" dynamic alongside it. They're an overly-complex way of solving a problem which can be solved more efficiently using a less technologically demanding system. Starfleet's more explicitly combat-oriented ships are typically built with better consideration of redundancy and efficiency, while the Galaxy-class is a ship designed to flaunt the power and technological superiority of the Federation. While they tend to seek non-violent diplomatic solutions, they back their desire for peace up with the threat of advanced combat capabilities. Having threatening, but less efficient, weaponry fits the Federations MO at that point in time, even if "terror weapon" is exactly the opposite of how they'd describe it...
When it comes to the Galaxy Class that ship is a beast that is both a weapon of terror if the Feds wish it and a true war ship in the right hands like Caption Kirk. In all of Star Trek shows I never seen a Galaxy Class need to run from any other ship outside a Borg cube. In the Dominion War the Galaxy Class was really holding up better then the others including the Rom's Big Bird and punching holes in Dominion lines.
I like to point out those galaxy classes were heavily upgraded and modify for actual war
@@LordInquisitor701 They are powerful the way they are. The Galaxy Class star ships biggest weakness is who commanded them. You need a caption with a little Klingon syndrome that will pull that trigger and show you what that ship can really do.
Me personally. I'd rather have the 10 Torp burst fire. The key thing here is you don't have to fire all 10 at once. You can fire one every second for 10 seconds. Which would mean by the time you're done with one Volley the next one is ready & can come one second later. Or you could shoot five every 5 seconds which is still really awful to have to deal with. We see the Enterprise use that five shot starburst pattern several times. Well it might not be enough to vaporize a vorcha or warbird it's probably enough to cripple it or severely damaged it. Let's not forget that the Galaxy also has a bunch of phasers that can be powered up to punch a hole straight through a borg cube. Given that yeah maybe the torpedo isn't the most effective weapon against a swarm of Dominion fighters. But if you do find yourself against a couple of d-7 (katingas whatever) or a couple of romulan warbirds that 10 round dump is going to be incredibly effective when their Shields are down. Is it going to basically remove one of them from the fight completely in one shot. Same thing would be true for one of those Dominion battleships. This is of course assuming that we're after the federation figured out how to withstand the polaron beams. Now those fighters can't immediately drop your Shields and crash into you. Also the fighters don't really do that well when they get slapped by a capital ship's phasers. So I feel like they're not the intended target the battleships are and I'm sure they hate that torpedo spread. I think we see that in the Battle of chinthaka. With those roaming galaxies just absolutely carving a path back and forth across the battlefield. I guarantee that they dumped some serious torpedo spreads to help them go back and forth so quickly. And that brings up another great point in a big fleet engagement where you have multiple galaxies... oh my!!! Three or four galaxies together can dump one of those spreads like every 3 seconds.... That's awful to be on the other side of. I don't think we see the launchers go away because it's not devastating enough. I think they go away just for efficiency. Like the Galaxy is so huge. Maybe it's just more efficient on The sovereign to have tubes instead. It doesn't have nearly as much extra, dare I say, excessive space that the Galaxy does. Also given the sovereigns have quantum torpedoes, and they can still pump them out pretty fast, Starfleet might have thought it wasn't as necessary. It also might be a function of the sovereign having the torpedoes in that saucer placement where they can shoot to the sides. My theory is that those torpedoes are on like a gimbal. So it's more of a question of putting the launcher in a place where it has better angles. It's like the difference between a sniper rifle... As opposed to the Galaxy which basically launches a shotgun blast. Either one is great put the sovereign seems to be better at making a couple of quick precision shots. The Galaxy is just like a raw blast. Both are great in the optimal circumstance. If you have to deal with hitting very precise locations on a board cube or tracking small craft the sovereigns launcher is going to be better. If you have to square up against a battleship the Galaxy is going to send that thing packing real quick. I think that the Jem Hadar initially send their fighters against the Galaxy cuz they knew they had the advantage of knocking out their Shields. And they knew that that would be the optimal thing to do against the Galaxy in that specific instance. I think the intentionally didn't send one of their big battleships on the off chance that it got into the galaxies firing Arc and then it would be in serious trouble even if they had the polaron beam advantage. I might just be partial to the galaxy. It's like my favorite ship and it's just cool. It's like a really nice town with an aquarium and a botanical garden, gymnasiums, comfortable carpeting but it's still like a terrifying battleship at the same time. 😂 It's so awesome, there's no way I'd rather be on a sovereign.
A shame Riker "forgot" they could perform a full spread, max yield volley on that outdated bucket in Generations. 😉 Not to mention modulating the shield frequencies. They did the D dirty.
Yeah If it had been a romulan warbird it would have worked so much better
I think another reason we see the multi-launch system from the Galaxy Class disappear has to due with the maneuverability of the Jem'Hedar and Breen ships from the Dominion War. Since these ships were small, fast, and agile the multi-launch system was just a waste of ammunition since even with ten torpedoes fired they weren't hitting anything so why keep such a system if it can't hit anything.
Yeah highly maneuverable attack craft would test fire control and targeting systems to the limit.
Could you do a video evaluating the operational effectiveness of the different Federation starships classes during Dominion war? It would be interesting to see how pre Wolf 359 ships stacked up against vessels that we're deliberately designed for combat. In particular I was thinking of the Galaxy class and the Sovereign class.
An equivalent I can think of is comparing the Hawker Hurricane and the Supermarine Spitfire.
It would depend on weather we were talking individually or as a class as whole.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Class as a whole
I think another reason the large multi-shot launchers were phased out was the advent of the quantum torpedo why fire ten torpedos in one large alpha strike when two or three fired from a set of smaller, rapid-fire tubes would have the same or greater effect. it simplifies logistics and conserves ammo both great things when it comes to a conventional battle. especially if the ships have the means of making their own ammo through the use of specialized replicators loaded with a selection of templates for torpedo/projectile types.
The Enterprise unleashed only 2 times I can think of. Against the Borg, and against the ship created by the Being who wiped out a species with a thought. All the other times they nearly got destroyed by holding back.
This actually flies in the face of the assertions that TNG "golden era" ships were too peaceful in nature, the Galaxy class is an absolute monster when it opens fire, and between the vast torpedo complexes and the amount of volume dedicated to the back side of the phaser strips, these ships dedicate a LOT of themselves to weaponry.
It's clear they were not meant to be actual war ships, they were meant to dish out overwhelming destruction to end a fight quickly, a tactic that breaks down when actual fleet engagements with peer level enemies like the Dominion.
It's a tactic designed for the battles they fought and were expecting to fight, you pointed out how it would work against the expected Romulan tactic but UT also works well enough against the raider style attacks seen from the Klingons Breen and other less state driven conflicts. Then there's the Cardasians, who simply never could compete with the tech resources or proficiency of starfleet. A sub peer enemy incapable of capitalizing on the apparent weaknes of starfleet doctrine. If a starfleet ship wanted a Cardasian ship dead it was going to be dead, and anything less than overwhelming numbers means the starfleet ship can absorb all they can dish out for the few seconds it takes to wipe the next ship off the board.
When people claim starfleet set itself up for failure, particularly with the Borg, they forget that the Borg simply out classed them in all measures, a different fleet doctrine, a different style of launcher or a policy against having families onboard would simply not have made the fleet better suited for fighting the Borg. At best it would have reduced immediate losses of life and material, but a Galaxy class stripped of unnecessary personnel and raw mass wouldn't automatically win that fight. It required specific advancements aimed at fighting the Borg to take on the Borg, and the same thing goes for the Dominion.
"Fire everything!" [Three torpedoes get launched]
The ambassador and galaxy class torpedo, launchers almost reminds me of ICBM technology with single warhead multiple warheads, then MIRVS
I see the multishot torpedo bay verses the newer versions of the torpedo launchers is like using a shotgun verus a machinegun, a shotgun has one good shot then it needs to reload while a machinegun....DAKKA DAKKA. It's my understanding of the situtation
I see you went with the metal storm solution that Australian weapons company pioneered
As a life-long game stratagyguy, thanks. I've even made games for my friends where they can bolster their custom vessel's firepower if they sacrifice fire rate and-or ammo... and a wide variety of other variables. Also, one big weapon system is a really nasty vulnerability... take out ONE weapon, that happens to b e it, you are majorly nerfed down.
I wonder, in the battle in Yesterday's Enterprise, why does the Enterprise D only fire one torpedo volley while in other episodes it seems more capable? With Starfleet's emphasis on military technology in that timeline one would think it's just as capable as the regular one if not more so.
I always thought that after 20 years of war. Photon torpedoes were a more scarce thing.
I can see why the Constitution refit might have 4 bays and 2 exits it might be a safety thing, Bay 1 & 2 might be prep bays or it could be Bay 1 and 2 are for maintainance or probe prep when the launchers shot those.
In theory the ship could carry mines too not that they were every really the sort of ship for laying mines but it is at least something they could have in another bay.
Assuming you don't apply Bay 1,2, or 3 to another part of the ship.
Does the Constitution II class still does not have a rear torpedo launcher... they really should fix that, heck maybe that is why they retired it. Unless they added on the the "Enterprise II Class/ Type" Variant (or whatever that is called this week) that the Enterprise A is.
"technology that didnt catch on, which is rare" *staring at voyager*
Yeah although in the torpedo department voyager was very traditional
USAF 🇺🇸 needs to give your channel future review .
projectile stacking and continuous reloading from magazines could give you all you need
they are accelerated, nothing saying they cant be in a row and just pulled out like a conveyor belt
Now, consider this set-up in the context of the Wandering Galaxies of Operation Return. ;) Oooooh, does the issues of the "torpedo bay" also apply to the large, single phaser array on the saucer (compared to the multiple smaller arrays on the Ambassador, Sovereign, etc)?
I figured it had been a tube that rapid fired the torpedoes fast enough that it appeared to be simultaneous launch, but if Starfleet figured out how to get a group of torpedoes to be treated as a single "entity" by the accelerator coils.... Dilemma of long tube vs fat tube on ship volume. Though that sort of bay/tube would seem like it could handle both quantum and photon torpedoes, which makes clearly designating a tube as one or the other odd... unless they ditched the fat tube design as you suggest, in which case if a quantum was larger, a new larger tube might be required that regular photons are then too "small" to use, allowing for such designations of tubes.
On the Akira. I know there's been talk about rotary launchers (and apparently see them in action in Prodigy)... but how much space does the circle take up inside the weapons pod? Do we actually have the space in the pod for what appears to be three rotary spots? Or even just the two aft ones next to each other, because it does look like the front one has the room to spin fully?
The wandering galaxies cracks me up because the idea of those ships just going around looking for a fight as the opfor runs away is hilarious
Emterprise e did first 4 burst quantom torpedeos with at least 5 phontonic torpedeos
There's also the. Damon aspect. If one big torpedo launcher is out, but you lose a lot of firepower, vs losing smaller launchers and smaller amounts of firepower.
I mean, if you're sure "bay" is different from "tube, Garrett orders torpedo bays loaded, so there you have it. Ambassador class has bays.
Always thought the Sovereign quantum launcher was basically gen 2 of the Galaxy photon launcher. Swear someone on Trek production said that. Either way if you can cut down the Galaxy class reload time in half it becomes much more valuable.
I kind of wonder if these multi-lunch torpedoes contributed to Wolf 359. Picard would have known about their weaknesses and I could definitely see the Borg exploiting them.
A large ship makes having a large torpedo system worth it and is indeed efficient as opposed to having multiple torpedo tubes. The Starfleet desire for flexibility AND to appear less threatening make the idea of a multi launch system reasonable. A full spread basically was the 'big gun' for the Galaxy class for blasting a majorly shielded target, but could also hit multitargets, which isn't such a bad thing against large task forces with small ships trying to swarm the colossal target of the Galaxy class. Those Dominion scarab ships might put a lie to that, and maybe rightfully so; but, the Dominion had tech that rivaled and maybe sometimes exceeded the Federation. The Scarab ships were tough enough, and fast and agile enough, to counter the benefits of a swarm of torpedoes coming their way. With a design philosophy where Starfleet was technologically ahead of most foes, or worried about cloaking ships, the idea of a full spread as a weapon of terror makes sense.
I really liked your idea of the Romulans being a planned target, with the Klingons surely being in mind as well should relations take a trip south as it were. Cloaking technology and related tactics make the idea of a full spread to 'shotgun' a vanishing or reappearing target very valuable.
Torpedo technology seems to have moved towards the deadly quantum torpedo, and perhaps with further improved guidance systems. Primary weapons again proving to be good old phasers with concepts like the energy lances for a 'big gun'. Being able to shoot lots of torpedoes at once still having some value, but being relegated to specialty warships like the Akira that are largely designed around that concept. More potent phaser weapons and the development of quantum torpedoes and the desire for low profile, high performance ships probably made the idea of multi launch torpedo systems obsolete. Especially since the speed of launch systems usually makes the events benefitting from a single, sudden barrage more rare.
Can't forget the Torpedo Replicator the USS Voyager invented.
Also I would say the difference between Torpedoes and Missiles, is Torpedoes can be fired at Warp Speed thus travel faster than light. Missiles remains in conventional physics.
The PhotonNet. It's a series of tubes...
So from the military stand point here is my take on it. The volley torpedo system is not a weapon of terror only ment to intimidate really. What it seems to me was the federation where experimenting with photon torpedoes being their alpha strike and finishing weapon.
Let's look at the weapons lay out. With thr galaxy federation had gone to phaser arays. These don't have the most potent alpha strike though they are powerful. But it gives versatility letting the the federations ships to have 360 degree firing arches so the ship can bring its weapons to bear on a hostile target approaching from any vector. The problem is this reduces the weighted punch of any alpha strike or shot ment to finish/break the back of a target. With a volley fire torpedo system the ship now has a powerful alpha strike that can be delivered to rapidly eliminate an enemy or attempt to break their shields for a debilitating strike from the phasers. So for example id the captian was aiming to get a mobility kill isntead of a catastrophic kill.
Further more the volley fire system would allow a captain to strike multipul critical systems at once across an enemy ships hull if the shields had been brought down. Overwhelming the enemy ships damage control and repair cabilities.
I would honestly say in my assesment the reason this system fell out of favor was it was no longer needed and obsolete by the time of the domini war.
With the begging of the anti borg ship and weapons programs new things were tried and developed. And the dominion war influenced fleet doctrine and design for starlet.
As you pointed out to fit such a system a ship needed to be massive. Looking for a military history stand point building very large ships requires special shipyards for the manufacture of such ships and such ships take time. They are powerful and navies always need them. But usually there are only a handful at best of ship yards that can accommodate and build a ship of that size. Planners also are usually very reluctant to use a shipyard that can build a super carrier or battleship to build a cruiser, destroyer, or submarine. Because you can still only get the one ship built at a time and it ties up the ship yard that could be building or repairing a bigger ship.
With the dominion war starfleet learns having big tanky ships to anchor the fleet around are good to have but do by themselves make a good fleet or win wars. They need numerous smaller ships that can augment the fire power of the larger ship but also disperse enemy fire. More targets abound the less the enemy can focus its fire on anyone ships which in an age of regenerative shielding increases the survivability of all ships indirectly. Plus smaller ships can be produced faster and repaired more easily. So there were less shops going to be built large enough to accommodate such a volley fire system.
Then we look at weapons development. With thr advent of quantum torpedos it made the volley fire system obsolete. These two or three of these torpedoes pack the same alpha punch weight of eight to ten photon torpedoes. Add in that even smaller ships can fit multiple single shot photon and quantum torpedo tunes you don't need the larger more complicated volley fire system anymore. You can achieve the same affect with just two forward firing photon and quantum torpedo tubes.
This is just my take on it.
Probably something other than magnets suspending torpedoes in the bay. You can't really use 2 magnetic fields pulling in opposite directions to suspend something. It would be like trying to balance something on a knife edge. The moment it's not perfectly balanced between the 2 the one it's closer to will massively overpower the distant one and your torpedo is going that way, like it or not.
In the TNG era the galaxy's felt more like battle cruisers than battleships. Nevertheless, when TNG began the federation was technologically far beyond everyone else. Even in the late 2360s the enterprise was able to dominate whole fleets of cardassian galors and would give the massive warbird a run for its money
I don't quite agree on the reload times. who knows how fast that could work and if it wouldn't be faster for smaller numbers. maybe the can switch between a machine gun and a shotgun setting. considering we are talking nuke explosions here... well impressive
Lower Decks seems to have brought them back.
We have 38 photon torpedoes in our disposal and no way to replace them after they are gone.
Voyager?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Yes. I was referring to this fan made video though. ruclips.net/video/PIGxMENwq1k/видео.html
Well, considering the fact that the Galaxy class model has somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 crew and you can fit them comfortably in maybe 18 to 20% of the space of the entirety of the saucer section of the enterprise D and the rest is just dead space you could have an enormous amount of ammunition, but you could always say that the reason that they went from multiple launchers to single launchers is ammo discipline is the ships got smaller and more maneuverable they couldn’t hold As many torpedoes, therefore, higher discipline becomes more acute
I'd think adding multiple feed chutes would drastically reduce your reload time.
So the torpedo launcher is like a cross between a multi-barrel cannon and a multi-shot rail gun, right?
Galaxy class goes BRRRT?