I do this for a living. I keep rolls of solid 18awg black and white on the truck but as long as you keep a consistent wiring scheme it’s not a huge deal as long as you don’t use green. I’m pretty sure the nec only dictates against using green as a current carrying conductor but yes standard field practice is 120volt white and 277v grey.
Benjamin Sahlstrom Hey thanks I appreciate that. In your case I would’ve changed them. You didn’t need HO lamps and they’re more expensive to retro. As long as they are in good shape, not old and fit the application I’ll leave them.
Buddy89, all I can find locally is stranded 18 gauge. I tinned the ends with solder and the wire locked in fine. My question is , do you think it's a problem tinning the ends of the wire? Any safety concerns I need to be aware of? Thanks for your input
Your video helped us replace 25 ballasts across 5 strings of fluorescents. Saved us $1800 from the electricians quote. Thanks. I’d add a picture of the finished project if I could.
I find your page very informative. I’ve never done residential only commercial work. We use MC as a posed to romex and we generally use 12 gauge for our branch circuits! We do tons of conduit bending and 600 kcmil runs! A lot of the things I seen on your page we don’t do out in our field so I’m glad to see different views!
When I do fluorescent to LED tube conversions, I like to apply the labels to warn not to install fluorescent lamps in the fixture, as there is no ballast. In one of the shops I was working at a few years back, a maintenance contractor was injured when a fluorescent tube exploded at the end he was holding, upon inserting the tube which had 277 volts at the tombstone, it had the ballast bypass and was wired for single end power, the other tombstone was used as the support. Just a thought based on my experience working in commercial. In your application not a big deal because 120 volts or even 240 or 277 is not enough to start a fluorescent, wired end to end. If wired single end, definitely should apply the warning label, even more critical at higher voltage like 240 or 277,
Man it bugged me that you kept the wire nuts and hanged the Wagos off of a pig tail. :) I definitely would have cut off the wire nuts and put the power input and output directly into the Wagos. Otherwise, it looks really nice and the light quality improvement is immense!
Man, these videos are great! I'm getting ready to start a whole home remodel. I'm competent in regards to framing and structural work but I've always been intimidated by electrical. These videos are great. I like the level of detail without mind numbing info saturation that is found in most "learn from a pro" videos... Awesome!
I've watched many of your videos....I think you are a bit OCD. I am surprised that those old, dirty fixtures were not taken down, vacuumed, sand-blasted, and powder coated before the conversion was complete. I wish I were you when I was a younger man...A real go-getter!
These days its so cheap. More evonomical to buy a complete fixture with the led lights wired, just plug n play, then to take down the old ones vacume, plast, etc.
Ben, I used a previous video for guidance on installing a sub panel and I was successful - everything works as it should! Unfortunately, I'm having issues with regular fluorescents so am going to convert to LED. This video is extremely helpful. Thanks, and yep, I'm subscribed!
A bit of safety advice. If you have a grounded conductor, as is the case with 120 volt, 208 volt high leg, or 277 volt systems, I would recommend connecting the grounded conductor to the end with the spring loaded A8 or R17D lampholder. This will reduce the risk of an electric shock as it is the first to make last to break. This is if you are too lazy to turn off the power when changing lamps which is what you should do.
According to article 200 of the NEC, you are required to use white or gray for neutral wires #6 and smaller. You can't use phase tape. The only exception would be is for switch loops when 2 wire romex or M/C cables are used. I think that includes fixture wire as well.
Hey Ben, yellow wire is considered hot. You can use a hot color as a neautral, just tape it white in several spots to re identify the hit wire as a neautral.
I agree with Ben here, there is actually different color electrical tape and code requires that any non-neutral wire color needs only be taped with the appropriate color. This is something that you have to do when working with multi-wire systems of more than 2.
Hei Benjamin, I am very interesting to watch all of your videos. Since you are confident in your work your explanation is crystal clear.Keep it up.May God Bless You and Your Family.
I love all the extra information. Interesting the 4' bulbs are about $5. I've been buying mostly the cheapie LED fixtures and last paid $15 for a 2pk from Menards. I still admire the Amp tester. Some day, I'll find the cheapest one made as I generally don't need it but just want one. And 100% correct, go with 'off white'. That would be my logic as well.
In older homes with the older codes, it is common to to see a black or white wire being used for the opposite, depending on how something is being fed. It is my understanding that this is acceptable, as long as you wrap the wire in the junction box accordingly, with white or black tape.
Electrical code does allow just the ends to be marked with the correct color. White electrical tape works well, but sometimes I'm adventurous and use which heat shrink tubing. White wires can also be marked black when used as a hot such as when using general romex as a 240 line.
You were concerned if you should use the existing yellow wire that was in the light fixture. I say yes do it but add a peace of white electrical tape on the yellow wire at both connection points of the yellow wire to indicate that it is a neutral wire.
They do make LED Retrofit lamps with the R17D (HO) base. Satco makes such a retrofit lamp. I'm fact Satco makes all the weird sizes for retrofitting signs in both single and double sided versions.
I think yellow ok for neutral Check NEC 410.130.G.1 for certain lighting u need to install disconnect plugs. Typ orange Plus cool trick use ur cell phone and look at fluorescent lights If looks like barber pole it is magnetic ballast. If no barber pole electronic ballast. Try it out I hate doing light bc so filthy I like doing lights bc of the instant gratification
I like how you showed the neutral on one end and the power on the other. Not being an electrician, I am gonna have to find a schematic so I don't electrocute myself. I got a little lost on the wires all getting tied to the wire nut.
Pins which are powered (i.e. carry a current) on BOTH ends of a fluorescent tube are a *HAZARD* ! If a workman replacing a tube while the power is ON has a finger touching the pin(s) on the unpowered end, a shock is possible when the powered pin(s) make contact in the socket at the other end. It is safer to have the power fed from one end and have the other end just for physical support. LED tubes for ballast bypass are now almost all "G13 Bi-Pin" or "recessed double contact" for that reason. For G13 Bi-Pins, the socket contacts on one end are "unshunted" so they can be separately wired "hot" and neutral, and the socket on the other end is just for support and not wired. In this project, sticking with the "recessed double contact" format would have been safer.
Wish I would have seen this video before I bought 4 foot LED tubes from Costco. They physically installed ok but would not switch on. I'm sure it had something to do with the ballast. Took the tubes back. I ended up buying the entire LED fixture that came with LED lamps installed. It came with various switchable settings and a motion detector.
I realize this is an older video at this point as I came across it and was surprised you were doing the retrofit and why I say it that way, is this actually to code in the USA to install these bulbs and therefore bypassing the ballasts. Here in Canada I was told by an electrical supplier who also has licensed electricians as well as speaking with other electricians, its a no go to do this retrofit as far as being to code as well as very possibly voiding your building insurance in the process. Yes some people have certainly done the retrofit not realizing the implications. At the time and not sure if that is different now but most of those bulbs from china are not certified under CSA or UL but that is only part of it, the other problem is that the existing light figures were never approved for 120 volt bulbs ran direct, only for the reduced voltage after the ballast. It was some years ago I did some retrofitting and replacements of fixtures, uninstalled the 8 foot units and installed 4 foots in their place and then replaced all the otherolder 4 foots I had with electronic ballasts. Then installed the retrofit LED bulbs designed to run off of the electronic ballasts. If I could have found actual LED strip lighting fixtures at a price that was affordable at the time I would have done that instead of course but they were beyond insanely priced, have not priced out strip LED lately. The power draw testing I did with an ammeter was interesting as I had experimented by testing the older 4 foot units that had magnetic ballasts with florescent bulbs, then installed LED bulbs and no difference in the power draw. Then I changed out the magnetic units for the electronic ballasts running the same LED bulbs and the power draw dropped exactly half. That was eye opening, I expect dedicated strip LED lights would use less power yet but the newer ballasts with the retrofit LED bulbs were a compromise that kept the type of retrofit I did still to code. The bulbs work great as per the heat not turned on in the shop and can be very cold out and they come on with no issues and no more of that humming and pulsing light that florescent is famous for. Anyway just thought I would share that and to check out if such a retrofit as per this video is allowed by code in your area of the world.
Greetings from Australia. Last year I replaced the suspended ceiling in my factory which had various fluorescent tube light fittings. I replaced all the fittings with flat panel LED's 4 x 1 ft, 3500 Lumen output, 4000K colour temperature, weighing 4 Lbs in weight, about 1/2 inch thick and came with a 3 pin plug on a flexible lead.. They were available either to go into the suspended ceiling rails and had other mounting kits. Larger lighting panels with higher outputs were available.Why would you bother with crusty, rusty old fluorescent light fittings with heat damaged wiring. It would probably be more cost effective than to change out tube fittings.
I have been using lower color temperature LEDs, about 4500K. Light is not as harsh and less bluish. I also reuse the tombstones unless they are cracked or the wiring terminals are discolored due to heat.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom I installed LED strip lights under my kitchen cabinets. The 2 footer is 25 watts and puts out 2,000 lumens, that's 750 lumens more output than a 100 watt incandescent bulb yet uses 75% less power. It's rated at 4,400 K, it's the best light I've ever seen, no pinkish/red or bluish/purple tint, just pure white light.
Thank you very much. You solved several problems for me. I am replacing our garage's flourecent T12 8" to Led T8, 8". Qauntity 11 fixtures conected in series. My question: I didnt see a ground wire coming out with the L and N wires. Is that normal?.. If not what should I do? Thanx.
I'm thinking of just taking down the 8 foot HO fluorescents in my garage and putting in standard keyless fixtures with super bright screw-in LED lights. The HO fluorescents are supposed to be rated for cold weather starting, but I'm find they start off pretty dim. I want instant bright in my -20F garage.
@@000gjb Those are really cool-looking! If you don't already have fixtures I would say to go that route. But if you already have the old fluorescent, the retrofit tubes make sense. Also you can change them out easily if they go bad.
@@aaron74 You can add two hat brackets which fix to the back of the LED panel and each of the hat brackets can be be fixed to say a Purlin with one screw each. I have never seen an 8 foot fluorescent tube in my life. Hate to drop or stand on one. It would take months to recover from any deep flesh wounds.
@@aaron74 These LED Panels were $62 AUD each back in January 2018, looking at the receipt. If you can believe any of the chinese literature, they have a lifespan of 30,000 hours or 12.5 man years @2500 hours worked per year ignoring light loss factor, for Lumen depreciation. If one fails, unplug the LED panel from the socket and plop in another one. 5 minutes, including getting the ladder.
@@000gjb Yes, the 96-inch tubes have existed for many years, I have them in my garage. They are quite unwieldy to say the least, but it's one of those things I installed that seemed like a good idea at the time. If I could go back I would have installed either twin 48-inch ones, or cheap keyless sockets (aka Edison sockets). Oh well. Since the fluorescent lights work fine, I probably won't bother dealing with them!
Colour coded wire was designed for electrical installations for a reason and it is good safety-practice to use the coloured wires in an installation so as to keep the uniformity of the original electrical wiring used before the handyman buggers up the electrical wiring installation.
Honestly If the next person to come along, does not know enough about electrical wiring to understand what is going on in this simple situation, he has NO business sticking his hands in there in the first place.
The inspector here in my area is fine with yellow because it’s inside the fixture. One of the inspectors in our area has opinions that the sockets were never approved for the current rating that they might encounter if the led style bulb fails into a shorted condition. As in the Original application the sockets will never see 20 amps short circuit..But he is older inspector and none of the other building inspectors has brought this up but he brings this up all the time. But he still appeared the installation work.
Same here. I like to wrap a small bit of white electricians tape around something being used as a Neutral just to make sure if anyone else was to go back and do something they know for a fact it’s the neutral wire! Great video
LEDs are more expensive to run in that configuration but are brighter so in a lumen per amp they are way cheaper to run if you thin you need that much light
I would have removed the fixtures, cleaned them and then spray painted them. Then cleaned and repainted the ceiling as well. Would have been interesting to "before and after" put a light meeter on your benches and seen the improvement of all your work.
I'm cheap so ill just use any color wiring i have lying around in a light fixture. If this were an electrical box or rough-in follow code. You can also wrap white electrical tape to indicate netural
Technically it should be white, but anyone that is doing electrical should be good enough to figure it out. Regardless you didn't verify the hot was actually the hot wire, so the colors could be backwards ;)
I am 99% sure that the polarity is correct but you're totally right! Obviously it really doesn't matter much since the LED lights are not polar sensitive. Thanks for the comment!
Once you are inside any light fixture, you could use pink if that is what you have. The actual colors are set up more for exterior/house wiring coming up to the light fixture. JMHO I guess cleaning everything up before reinstalling things is out of the question...
You show close to 5 amp draw on each of the three circuits with the ballast and Flo tubes. Your finish LED conversion was pulling more amps. Your electric bill went up !
Wrap yellow wire to white heat shrink. You are using tubes where power goes to both ends, but such tubes are allowed only in few countries. In many countries electrical codes require only one-end powered LED tubes since 2010.
As long as you keep uniform with all your lights so as to avoid confusion you will be good as long as you dont need an inspection. The lever connectors he used are the old style. The new ones are much better and smaller.
Buddy89, all I can find locally is stranded 18 gauge. I tinned the ends with solder and the wire locked in fine. My question is , do you think it's a problem tinning the ends of the wire? Any safety concerns I need to be aware of? Thanks for your input
the old lights used just a little less than 5 amps and now the new lights are using just under 7 amps, i know you get a lot more light from the new lights as you can see but what about what the electric cost, are the new lights going to cost more to use, you should also tell everyone how much longer LED will last, these lights are great compared to the old ones
You ask what to do when wire color is incorrect, as an electrician of 20 + years I used a color flag. A piece of tape that the correct color @ each end of the wire. A flag is tape 2 or 3 inches long w/ both ends sticking up away from the wire.
I've been using LEDs in my kitchen ever since they were affordable, mainly to cut down on the heat that seemed to be killing my ballasts in a closed fixture. They do seem to have a limited life of about 2 years, or 10,000 hours, when they begin to dim. My wife keeps the kitchen lights on if she isn't in bed. LOL
Let me understand, I can replace my bulbs with led, but I have to remove or disconnect the ballast? And one more question this type led bulbs are good brand?
The ballast consumes a lot of power on startup and is necessary for the gas inside the fluorescent bulbs to start up, hence the buzz when you start up the lights. This is not necessary for leds, as they are made differently.
I thought the power company says you save on power consumption therefore money with LED's. this conversion doesn't appear that is the case. Am I missing something?
Goggls so important 4 this job .why? Ur eys in. Away frm glass tht s been known to pop n shoot small fragments of small glass to ur eys gogles a must thk u
The neutral wires are supposed to be white or gray, your easy solution is every place where you make a connection put a ring of white electrical tape. It is the same kind a solution that if your homerun is to the fixture instead of the switch that you would wrap your white or neutral conductor in a ring of black or red tape to the note that it wasn’t a neutral that it was a live wire at the switch locations.
Makes sense. Sometimes you see fixture wires that don't comply with the color standards so that is part of why I was unsure if it was required inside of the fixture.
@Benjamin Sahlstrom The fixture will work regardless of what color the wires are the entire reason for the standardization of colors is to reduce cognitive load to reduce the opportunity for accidents to occur and for ease of service and maintenance. The ring of tape is completely not required or necessary but it is very kind to let the person who comes after you to know what you were doing and thinking and to make their life safer and easier.
If you are a bit pedantic like me, then spiral wrap the ends of the yellow wire just before they join up with your plastic clips with an inch or so of white or gray electrical insulating tape and I think you will be up to code. Couple of pennies of tape and a minute of your time for each yellow wire connected. Especially if you have to pull an electrical permit with the county or city where you live.
No person who doesn't know the difference between shunted and unshunted tombstones should attempt working on flourecent fixtures. When I do a ballast bypass I wire so that anyone who comes behind me can easily distinguish between hot and nuetral. I also put warning stickers on fixture so no one tries to come behind me and put a flourecent tube back in.
those LED tubes with bare visible LED elements are kinda crude, Philips (Signify) Osram Sylvania have really nice LED Tube lamps, no obvious LED elements, smooth linear lighting, coated tube
Wrap yellow wire w/ enough white electric tape to label“neutral”....should be okay Just in case a DIYer gets in their or electrician...they “know” it’s a neutral wire *edited for autocorrect
White tape seems like a good solution. It would be pretty hard to mistake though even without the tape since the white neutral connection will be clean and obvious whenever the fixture is opened.
Benjamin Sahlstrom that’s true, & most “good” electricians would check & “identify” wires anyways 👍🏻, but not everyone does do that, unfortunately 😉 Enjoy the channel, cheers✌🏼
@@BenjaminSahlstrom My electrical panel in my house has a black insulated service wire connected to the neutral lug, the same conductor size as the two 120V hot legs. But the electrician wrapped a lot of white tape around it to re-identify it as neutral. I personally prefer heat-shrink tubing to tape, but I'm anal that way. Also, it's recommended you Sharpie on those fluorescent light fixtures "L" and "N", line and neutral, just in case the bulb you're going to install is polarity sensitive. I think the first generation LEDs used to be, probably not a concern anymore... More of a "just in case" thing so the installer doesn't have to remove the cover to look at the wiring.
@@aaron74 It may be black cable with white tape because that gauge conductor is not sold in white sheathing. Love this series, but I'm also watching videos from another channel called Electricians U. Geared more towards new/apprentice Electricians learning the trade, but like these videos, very informative and easy to understand. Look for the one on running a subpanel. His practice is to use the black and CLEARLY mark the neutral with white tape like you describe.
@@wbmiles Yes, Dustin is great on Electrician U! I love his channel as well as his Journey 2 Master channel. He's very motivational. I hope he's doing okay in this downturn.
If the label on the tube does not say type one or type 2, and you can't find an OEM cut sheet for the model number, you can always do a smoke test and find out.
I do this for a living. I keep rolls of solid 18awg black and white on the truck but as long as you keep a consistent wiring scheme it’s not a huge deal as long as you don’t use green. I’m pretty sure the nec only dictates against using green as a current carrying conductor but yes standard field practice is 120volt white and 277v grey.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing your experience! Do you recommend changing out the lamp holders or do you usually match the bulb to the existing ones?
Benjamin Sahlstrom Hey thanks I appreciate that. In your case I would’ve changed them. You didn’t need HO lamps and they’re more expensive to retro. As long as they are in good shape, not old and fit the application I’ll leave them.
Wiring in the lighting fixtures its no big deal to use different color as long as you followed color code on the supply lines...thanks.
You can buy UL type B LED retrofit lamps with r17D bases. Satco and Keystone make such lamps.
Buddy89, all I can find locally is stranded 18 gauge. I tinned the ends with solder and the wire locked in fine. My question is , do you think it's a problem tinning the ends of the wire? Any safety concerns I need to be aware of? Thanks for your input
I see you kept the old cobwebs. I like to remove them and have new ones installed eventually...
Your video helped us replace 25 ballasts across 5 strings of fluorescents. Saved us $1800 from the electricians quote. Thanks. I’d add a picture of the finished project if I could.
I find your page very informative. I’ve never done residential only commercial work. We use MC as a posed to romex and we generally use 12 gauge for our branch circuits! We do tons of conduit bending and 600 kcmil runs! A lot of the things I seen on your page we don’t do out in our field so I’m glad to see different views!
finally, the least complicated and a simple explanation for bypassing the Ballast...thanks man
When I do fluorescent to LED tube conversions, I like to apply the labels to warn not to install fluorescent lamps in the fixture, as there is no ballast. In one of the shops I was working at a few years back, a maintenance contractor was injured when a fluorescent tube exploded at the end he was holding, upon inserting the tube which had 277 volts at the tombstone, it had the ballast bypass and was wired for single end power, the other tombstone was used as the support. Just a thought based on my experience working in commercial.
In your application not a big deal because 120 volts or even 240 or 277 is not enough to start a fluorescent, wired end to end. If wired single end, definitely should apply the warning label, even more critical at higher voltage like 240 or 277,
Finally, a video that covered all the bases! Well done!
Man it bugged me that you kept the wire nuts and hanged the Wagos off of a pig tail. :) I definitely would have cut off the wire nuts and put the power input and output directly into the Wagos. Otherwise, it looks really nice and the light quality improvement is immense!
Man, these videos are great! I'm getting ready to start a whole home remodel. I'm competent in regards to framing and structural work but I've always been intimidated by electrical. These videos are great. I like the level of detail without mind numbing info saturation that is found in most "learn from a pro" videos... Awesome!
Why not put some white tape on either side of the yellow wire? Calling it off white is like calling blue wire off-red.
I've watched many of your videos....I think you are a bit OCD. I am surprised that those old, dirty fixtures were not taken down, vacuumed, sand-blasted, and powder coated before the conversion was complete. I wish I were you when I was a younger man...A real go-getter!
These days its so cheap. More evonomical to buy a complete fixture with the led lights wired, just plug n play, then to take down the old ones vacume, plast, etc.
Ben, I used a previous video for guidance on installing a sub panel and I was successful - everything works as it should! Unfortunately, I'm having issues with regular fluorescents so am going to convert to LED. This video is extremely helpful. Thanks, and yep, I'm subscribed!
God bless a American, you know how to fly a flag. I think your videos are very educational. Good job.
A bit of safety advice. If you have a grounded conductor, as is the case with 120 volt, 208 volt high leg, or 277 volt systems, I would recommend connecting the grounded conductor to the end with the spring loaded A8 or R17D lampholder. This will reduce the risk of an electric shock as it is the first to make last to break. This is if you are too lazy to turn off the power when changing lamps which is what you should do.
According to article 200 of the NEC, you are required to use white or gray for neutral wires #6 and smaller. You can't use phase tape. The only exception would be is for switch loops when 2 wire romex or M/C cables are used. I think that includes fixture wire as well.
Hey Ben, yellow wire is considered hot. You can use a hot color as a neautral, just tape it white in several spots to re identify the hit wire as a neautral.
I agree with Ben here, there is actually different color electrical tape and code requires that any non-neutral wire color needs only be taped with the appropriate color. This is something that you have to do when working with multi-wire systems of more than 2.
Hei Benjamin, I am very interesting to watch all of your videos. Since you are confident in your work your explanation is crystal clear.Keep it up.May God Bless You and Your Family.
I love all the extra information. Interesting the 4' bulbs are about $5. I've been buying mostly the cheapie LED fixtures and last paid $15 for a 2pk from Menards. I still admire the Amp tester. Some day, I'll find the cheapest one made as I generally don't need it but just want one.
And 100% correct, go with 'off white'. That would be my logic as well.
I like your show and the way you explain every thing by the way I celebrate that you work with your kids
This video was extremely helpful, thank you for explaining this so well👍
Can you make a tour of your workshop? That would be epic
In older homes with the older codes, it is common to to see a black or white wire being used for the opposite, depending on how something is being fed.
It is my understanding that this is acceptable, as long as you wrap the wire in the junction box accordingly, with white or black tape.
Electrical code does allow just the ends to be marked with the correct color. White electrical tape works well, but sometimes I'm adventurous and use which heat shrink tubing. White wires can also be marked black when used as a hot such as when using general romex as a 240 line.
You were concerned if you should use the existing yellow wire that was in the light fixture. I say yes do it but add a peace of white electrical tape on the yellow wire at both connection points of the yellow wire to indicate that it is a neutral wire.
They do make LED Retrofit lamps with the R17D (HO) base. Satco makes such a retrofit lamp. I'm fact Satco makes all the weird sizes for retrofitting signs in both single and double sided versions.
I think yellow ok for neutral
Check NEC 410.130.G.1 for certain lighting u need to install disconnect plugs. Typ orange
Plus cool trick use ur cell phone and look at fluorescent lights
If looks like barber pole it is magnetic ballast. If no barber pole electronic ballast. Try it out
I hate doing light bc so filthy
I like doing lights bc of the instant gratification
I like how you showed the neutral on one end and the power on the other. Not being an electrician, I am gonna have to find a schematic so I don't electrocute myself. I got a little lost on the wires all getting tied to the wire nut.
It's that young smart talking kid again!
Pins which are powered (i.e. carry a current) on BOTH ends of a fluorescent tube are a *HAZARD* !
If a workman replacing a tube while the power is ON has a finger touching the pin(s) on the
unpowered end, a shock is possible when the powered pin(s) make contact in the socket at the other end.
It is safer to have the power fed from one end and have the other end just for physical support.
LED tubes for ballast bypass are now almost all "G13 Bi-Pin" or "recessed double contact" for that reason.
For G13 Bi-Pins, the socket contacts on one end are "unshunted" so they can be separately wired
"hot" and neutral, and the socket on the other end is just for support and not wired.
In this project, sticking with the "recessed double contact" format would have been safer.
So much for savings money. You started with 4.9 amps and ended with 6.25. But it is brighter.
Wish I would have seen this video before I bought 4 foot LED tubes from Costco. They physically installed ok but would not switch on. I'm sure it had something to do with the ballast. Took the tubes back. I ended up buying the entire LED fixture that came with LED lamps installed. It came with various switchable settings and a motion detector.
I LOVE my shop LEDS! BEN…..Thanks for your instructions!
I realize this is an older video at this point as I came across it and was surprised you were doing the retrofit and why I say it that way, is this actually to code in the USA to install these bulbs and therefore bypassing the ballasts. Here in Canada I was told by an electrical supplier who also has licensed electricians as well as speaking with other electricians, its a no go to do this retrofit as far as being to code as well as very possibly voiding your building insurance in the process. Yes some people have certainly done the retrofit not realizing the implications. At the time and not sure if that is different now but most of those bulbs from china are not certified under CSA or UL but that is only part of it, the other problem is that the existing light figures were never approved for 120 volt bulbs ran direct, only for the reduced voltage after the ballast. It was some years ago I did some retrofitting and replacements of fixtures, uninstalled the 8 foot units and installed 4 foots in their place and then replaced all the otherolder 4 foots I had with electronic ballasts. Then installed the retrofit LED bulbs designed to run off of the electronic ballasts. If I could have found actual LED strip lighting fixtures at a price that was affordable at the time I would have done that instead of course but they were beyond insanely priced, have not priced out strip LED lately. The power draw testing I did with an ammeter was interesting as I had experimented by testing the older 4 foot units that had magnetic ballasts with florescent bulbs, then installed LED bulbs and no difference in the power draw. Then I changed out the magnetic units for the electronic ballasts running the same LED bulbs and the power draw dropped exactly half. That was eye opening, I expect dedicated strip LED lights would use less power yet but the newer ballasts with the retrofit LED bulbs were a compromise that kept the type of retrofit I did still to code. The bulbs work great as per the heat not turned on in the shop and can be very cold out and they come on with no issues and no more of that humming and pulsing light that florescent is famous for. Anyway just thought I would share that and to check out if such a retrofit as per this video is allowed by code in your area of the world.
Another awesome tutorial Benjamin...Thanks👍
I didn't know they had 8 foot replacements. Good to know
I was glad they did! Makes a huge difference with the brighter bulbs!
Greetings from Australia. Last year I replaced the suspended ceiling in my factory which had various fluorescent tube light fittings. I replaced all the fittings with flat panel LED's 4 x 1 ft, 3500 Lumen output, 4000K colour temperature, weighing 4 Lbs in weight, about 1/2 inch thick and came with a 3 pin plug on a flexible lead.. They were available either to go into the suspended ceiling rails and had other mounting kits. Larger lighting panels with higher outputs were available.Why would you bother with crusty, rusty old fluorescent light fittings with heat damaged wiring. It would probably be more cost effective than to change out tube fittings.
I have been using lower color temperature LEDs, about 4500K. Light is not as harsh and less bluish. I also reuse the tombstones unless they are cracked or the wiring terminals are discolored due to heat.
Yeah, the 6k does seem pretty "harsh" as you mention. 4k is nice and I even enjoy the 3.5k when available.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom I installed LED strip lights under my kitchen cabinets. The 2 footer is 25 watts and puts out 2,000 lumens, that's 750 lumens more output than a 100 watt incandescent bulb yet uses 75% less power. It's rated at 4,400 K, it's the best light I've ever seen, no pinkish/red or bluish/purple tint, just pure white light.
Thank you very much. You solved several problems for me.
I am replacing our garage's flourecent T12 8" to Led T8, 8".
Qauntity 11 fixtures conected in series.
My question: I didnt see a ground wire coming out with the L and N wires. Is that normal?.. If not what should I do?
Thanx.
I'm thinking of just taking down the 8 foot HO fluorescents in my garage and putting in standard keyless fixtures with super bright screw-in LED lights. The HO fluorescents are supposed to be rated for cold weather starting, but I'm find they start off pretty dim. I want instant bright in my -20F garage.
Throw them all in the bin. Install flat panel LED's.
@@000gjb Those are really cool-looking! If you don't already have fixtures I would say to go that route. But if you already have the old fluorescent, the retrofit tubes make sense. Also you can change them out easily if they go bad.
@@aaron74 You can add two hat brackets which fix to the back of the LED panel and each of the hat brackets can be be fixed to say a Purlin with one screw each. I have never seen an 8 foot fluorescent tube in my life. Hate to drop or stand on one. It would take months to recover from any deep flesh wounds.
@@aaron74 These LED Panels were $62 AUD each back in January 2018, looking at the receipt. If you can believe any of the chinese literature, they have a lifespan of 30,000 hours or 12.5 man years @2500 hours worked per year ignoring light loss factor, for Lumen depreciation. If one fails, unplug the LED panel from the socket and plop in another one. 5 minutes, including getting the ladder.
@@000gjb Yes, the 96-inch tubes have existed for many years, I have them in my garage. They are quite unwieldy to say the least, but it's one of those things I installed that seemed like a good idea at the time. If I could go back I would have installed either twin 48-inch ones, or cheap keyless sockets (aka Edison sockets). Oh well. Since the fluorescent lights work fine, I probably won't bother dealing with them!
WOW!! finally found the video I was looking for
.great job
Why do you have blue wire in your single phase panel?
Wrap the ends of the neutral wires with white electrical tape.
Colour coded wire was designed for electrical installations for a reason and it is good safety-practice to use the coloured wires in an installation so as to keep the uniformity of the original electrical wiring used before the handyman buggers up the electrical wiring installation.
Honestly If the next person to come along, does not know enough about electrical wiring to understand what is going on in this simple situation, he has NO business sticking his hands in there in the first place.
The inspector here in my area is fine with yellow because it’s inside the fixture. One of the inspectors in our area has opinions that the sockets were never approved for the current rating that they might encounter if the led style bulb fails into a shorted condition. As in the Original application the sockets will never see 20 amps short circuit..But he is older inspector and none of the other building inspectors has brought this up but he brings this up all the time. But he still appeared the installation work.
He actually has a point. The ballast is a current limit on the output lines. The wegos are not performing that function.
As for the internal wiring colors I would just use the yellow er...(off white) wire
Unless the NEC specifically says otherwise
Exactly!
Same here. I like to wrap a small bit of white electricians tape around something being used as a Neutral just to make sure if anyone else was to go back and do something they know for a fact it’s the neutral wire! Great video
We used the yellow wires when by passing the ballasts on our light fixtures.
I don't see the link for the poll
Nice job done Ben!
You can re-indentify the yellow wire with white tape to use it as neutral. I like to do that to keep things simply.
I don't get it ... when you measured Amps on the blue in the beginning it was 4.75 and after you converted it was 6.25 Amps ?
LEDs are more expensive to run in that configuration but are brighter so in a lumen per amp they are way cheaper to run if you thin you need that much light
I would use the "off White" wire but I would put a piece of clealy white tape towards the end for when I forget what I did years from now.
I would have removed the fixtures, cleaned them and then spray painted them. Then cleaned and repainted the ceiling as well. Would have been interesting to "before and after" put a light meeter on your benches and seen the improvement of all your work.
Nice Vid, and to the pint, thanks
I'm cheap so ill just use any color wiring i have lying around in a light fixture. If this were an electrical box or rough-in follow code. You can also wrap white electrical tape to indicate netural
Purple tape is cool
Technically it should be white, but anyone that is doing electrical should be good enough to figure it out. Regardless you didn't verify the hot was actually the hot wire, so the colors could be backwards ;)
I am 99% sure that the polarity is correct but you're totally right! Obviously it really doesn't matter much since the LED lights are not polar sensitive. Thanks for the comment!
Once you are inside any light fixture, you could use pink if that is what you have. The actual colors are set up more for exterior/house wiring coming up to the light fixture. JMHO I guess cleaning everything up before reinstalling things is out of the question...
So, what do you do in your shop there..? Again, a super well done video Ben...
You show close to 5 amp draw on each of the three circuits with the ballast and Flo tubes. Your finish LED conversion was pulling more amps. Your electric bill went up !
Wrap yellow wire to white heat shrink. You are using tubes where power goes to both ends, but such tubes are allowed only in few countries. In many countries electrical codes require only one-end powered LED tubes since 2010.
As long as you keep uniform with all your lights so as to avoid confusion you will be good as long as you dont need an inspection. The lever connectors he used are the old style. The new ones are much better and smaller.
That's what I assumed. Keeping it uniform and orderly will make for a safe and easy to understand installation for sure.
I have seen those new Wago's. I need to order some and try them out!
At 9:41 depends on who comes in behind you in the future to replace those tombstones
I’m pretty sure NEC states that it is permissible to mark any insulator as neutral with white tape.
Will they work outside, in cold weather? Dry location.
I would just use white tape wrapping around the yellow wire and that indicating that's neutral
That seems like it would be the best and most thorough but yet cost effective way to go for sure.
I have a very old lamp unit-,the tombstones have a metal clip in the front and two holds in the back, how do I mount the new one . Thanks
well done
Use white tape on the yellow wire to signify neutral
Buddy89, all I can find locally is stranded 18 gauge. I tinned the ends with solder and the wire locked in fine. My question is , do you think it's a problem tinning the ends of the wire? Any safety concerns I need to be aware of? Thanks for your input
I believe that the color of wire is not a factor inside of an appliance.
use the yellow as before. then put white tape or white tubing for ident.
the old lights used just a little less than 5 amps and now the new lights are using just under 7 amps, i know you get a lot more light from the new lights as you can see but what about what the electric cost, are the new lights going to cost more to use, you should also tell everyone how much longer LED will last, these lights are great compared to the old ones
great job looking forward to more videos
You ask what to do when wire color is incorrect, as an electrician of 20 + years I used a color flag. A piece of tape that the correct color @ each end of the wire. A flag is tape 2 or 3 inches long w/ both ends sticking up away from the wire.
Another great video! Thanks.
The wire should be white. Can you use 18 AWG to run 120 volts?
I've been using LEDs in my kitchen ever since they were affordable, mainly to cut down on the heat that seemed to be killing my ballasts in a closed fixture. They do seem to have a limited life of about 2 years, or 10,000 hours, when they begin to dim. My wife keeps the kitchen lights on if she isn't in bed. LOL
the wire colour dont matter. make it work and move on. please buy a fluke meter. great vid. lates
What is your favorite Fluke meter? I've always used Fieldpiece from my HVACR background.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom i love my 20 year old fluke 87 (4). a 50,000 count meter with great accuracy. it is the fucking bomb. woohoo
@@BenjaminSahlstrom Fieldpiece is great equipment. It is the top of the line in the HVAC trade.
Don't worry about the yellow wire as neutral : Just make sure all the lighting cases are grounded in some reliable way.
White in this application !
I say use what wire is available from inside the light fixture if possible. It will save on time and money.
As long as they are different colors all should be good.
Let me understand, I can replace my bulbs with led, but I have to remove or disconnect the ballast? And one more question this type led bulbs are good brand?
The ballast consumes a lot of power on startup and is necessary for the gas inside the fluorescent bulbs to start up, hence the buzz when you start up the lights. This is not necessary for leds, as they are made differently.
some white tape at the ends or a bit of white paint is an easy way to clarify for the next guy
I thought the power company says you save on power consumption therefore money with LED's. this conversion doesn't appear that is the case. Am I missing something?
Really helpful thanks bro
I prefer wirenuts lol. But great video!
Goggls so important 4 this job .why? Ur eys in. Away frm glass tht s been known to pop n shoot small fragments of small glass to ur eys gogles a must thk u
Great video!
Did you use non shunted tombstones?
The neutral wires are supposed to be white or gray, your easy solution is every place where you make a connection put a ring of white electrical tape. It is the same kind a solution that if your homerun is to the fixture instead of the switch that you would wrap your white or neutral conductor in a ring of black or red tape to the note that it wasn’t a neutral that it was a live wire at the switch locations.
Makes sense. Sometimes you see fixture wires that don't comply with the color standards so that is part of why I was unsure if it was required inside of the fixture.
@Benjamin Sahlstrom
The fixture will work regardless of what color the wires are the entire reason for the standardization of colors is to reduce cognitive load to reduce the opportunity for accidents to occur and for ease of service and maintenance. The ring of tape is completely not required or necessary but it is very kind to let the person who comes after you to know what you were doing and thinking and to make their life safer and easier.
Couldn't agree more.
If you are a bit pedantic like me, then spiral wrap the ends of the yellow wire just before they join up with your plastic clips with an inch or so of white or gray electrical insulating tape and I think you will be up to code. Couple of pennies of tape and a minute of your time for each yellow wire connected. Especially if you have to pull an electrical permit with the county or city where you live.
No person who doesn't know the difference between shunted and unshunted tombstones should attempt working on flourecent fixtures. When I do a ballast bypass I wire so that anyone who comes behind me can easily distinguish between hot and nuetral. I also put warning stickers on fixture so no one tries to come behind me and put a flourecent tube back in.
I install a warning label in the converted fixture to warn that the fixture is LED and not to use florescents. The labels came with the tubes.
Great job!
its cheaper to convert the 8ft into a tandem which uses four 4ft bulbs
Add white tape to wire indicate
those LED tubes with bare visible LED elements are kinda crude, Philips (Signify) Osram Sylvania have really nice LED Tube lamps, no obvious LED elements, smooth linear lighting, coated tube
Wrap yellow wire w/ enough white electric tape to label“neutral”....should be okay
Just in case a DIYer gets in their or electrician...they “know” it’s a neutral wire
*edited for autocorrect
White tape seems like a good solution. It would be pretty hard to mistake though even without the tape since the white neutral connection will be clean and obvious whenever the fixture is opened.
Benjamin Sahlstrom that’s true, & most “good” electricians would check & “identify” wires anyways 👍🏻, but not everyone does do that, unfortunately 😉
Enjoy the channel, cheers✌🏼
@@BenjaminSahlstrom My electrical panel in my house has a black insulated service wire connected to the neutral lug, the same conductor size as the two 120V hot legs. But the electrician wrapped a lot of white tape around it to re-identify it as neutral. I personally prefer heat-shrink tubing to tape, but I'm anal that way.
Also, it's recommended you Sharpie on those fluorescent light fixtures "L" and "N", line and neutral, just in case the bulb you're going to install is polarity sensitive. I think the first generation LEDs used to be, probably not a concern anymore... More of a "just in case" thing so the installer doesn't have to remove the cover to look at the wiring.
@@aaron74 It may be black cable with white tape because that gauge conductor is not sold in white sheathing. Love this series, but I'm also watching videos from another channel called Electricians U. Geared more towards new/apprentice Electricians learning the trade, but like these videos, very informative and easy to understand. Look for the one on running a subpanel. His practice is to use the black and CLEARLY mark the neutral with white tape like you describe.
@@wbmiles Yes, Dustin is great on Electrician U! I love his channel as well as his Journey 2 Master channel. He's very motivational. I hope he's doing okay in this downturn.
Is there a way to tell if the led replacement bulbs need a ballast? I bought some bulbs on sale at lowes and can't remember if the box said anything
If the label on the tube does not say type one or type 2, and you can't find an OEM cut sheet for the model number, you can always do a smoke test and find out.
@@BrianFullerton true😅, hadn't thought about that
I suggest to follow the standard