@@GeoFry3 State County and Federal Lands account for about 70% of the land in the west. Millions and millions of acres. We have more than enough room. The Govt and its useful idiot cheerleaders are the real problem.
@@NoneYabizness-e2y that's cool. I'll just go to California and do "urban boondocking" with the other 20,000 people doing it that actually work full-time jobs but can't afford housing. It's hilarious to think that rentseekers are upset that people camp on blm land and rotate sites as a strategy to avoid insane housing prices.
I am a homeless veteran (by choice, I do have assets and I am not poverty stricken, to be clear I have multiple income streams) living in a 2020 Class C Jayco that I bought brand new. I camp host to offset my expenses. I clean toilets and sell ice / firewood / shower tokens in exchange for my camp site and access to free washer / dryer. I usually spend the winter at Corps of Engineers sites. Not an easy life. Not cheap. Every repair I have had done cost $1k to $2k. Anyone that thinks living in an RV, full-time, is easy or cheap is delusional. It's not. It's hard. If you don't have some type of income and can't camp host / work / volunteer to offset your expenses you will suffer and suffer badly. I'm on my fourth year as a full time RVer and third year camp hosting. It's hard. Even with various discounted federal and state park passes for discounted camping, it's not cheap and anyone that tells you that is lying to you.
That's great that you find things to do to earn money. My husband and I are soon to be full-timers, and we wanted to find something that we could really feel excited about. We found this: ruclips.net/video/60baIJyLmPI/видео.html Who doesn't want better health and more money? The product is the only one like it. There is NO COMPETITION. We just got started, (five weeks ago) and we love it! We love the technology and we love the business model. There is nothing else like it in the world. It is PORTABLE AND AFFORDABLE to do!
I've heard nightmares about RV's so that is why I purchased a van as on S.S. renting or buying was out of the question. I had several people help to build the van into an RV. I've been living in the van. I am disabled and live in chronic pain from back injuries and fibromyalgia. I cannot imagine having to spend money on LTVA more than the price is already. I have no funds to repair the van if it breaks down. My refrigerator has taken a dump so I am hoping to get a new one eventually. It's tough when you are in pain. I am educated, a former branch manager of an escrow company, so I try to think of ways to improve my situation but thus far, I've been unable to. If I had a choice, I would have a sticks and bricks home, but that is out of the monetary view. Unless I win the lottery, which I purchase a $1.00 ticket once or twice a month, things will seemingly remain the same. Camp hosting is not an option due to the pain. Never, did I ever, think this would happen to me. I planned on working until I was 65, then retiring to an inexpensive but nice area. Things don't go as planned for everyone and it seems government is making it more difficult. Charging the public more and more for things that are NEEDED should be considered a crime. We are doing our best to survive in RV's, vans and cars. At least we thought of shelter in these automobile options, thereby bypassing homelessness on the streets. Government needs to re-think who they want to increase fees for. Groceries, taxes, gas, propane, BLM land, etc. are all NEEDS.
when you say beat the system you mean at others expense thats really what we are talking about here. Some people want to live for free at the expense of others but things monetary cost.
Public lands are not in competition with the private sector. Let's not forget the BLM receives tax dollars. Millions and millions of dollars in Arizona alone. Public land is not a business.
Agreed. According to the BLM website, "The 2024 BLM budget for current appropriations is $1.7 billion, including $1.5 billion for the Management of Lands and Resources appropriation..." Also according to the BLM website, "Recreation opportunities on BLM-administered lands contribute more than $276.2 million to Arizona's economy." All of these people are acting as though BLM lands are some sort of handout, when in fact, the state and local economies are benefitting from the visitors, even taking into account cleanup, etc.
@AmberwingArt some bureaucrat thinks this would be a government cash cow. What they are failing to disclose is the hundreds of millions of tax dollars going to Arizona BLM to manage the land. What have they done with two decades in fees and tax money. Certainly wasn't making the place better.
Public land isn't a business until you turn it into one. "Public land" doesn't come with water and toilets. Those are things business provides. Transactions occur. Items are procured. Business happens. Plans are needed for future development. All so you can do your business.
@@nonya.bizness , they are being managed. And, do you understand what the word profit means? They are clearly operating at a loss and require more expenditures. So not to worry, still not for profit.
This why I built a stealth apartment on a truck instead of buying a camper, the machine will never stop coming at our wallets, staying off their radar is the only way.
I posted a video on this two days ago. I’m in Quartzsite right now. The few that are here right now are not pleased with this proposed increase in price especially since there have been zero improvements or added amenities to the location(s). You never see a ranger. The vault toilets are atrocious. The dumpsters overflow. The “improved” water fill and dump stations were completed two years ago and remain closed because the non potable water coming from the well dug cannot fulfill the pressure requirements.
Yeah, that's the whole point of raising the prices! Did you not watch the video? They're saying that they are underfunded and understaffed, so they need more money. Nobody ever expected these BLM lands to turn into homeless encampments so they didn't budget for this ridiculous amount of RVers. Too many Quartzite people are anti-goverment and don't want to pay taxes ( especially property taxes), and yet they expect the government to give them a free place to live with spotless bathrooms and a state of the art water filtration system. It's ridiculous because the American taxpayer that's going to their job for 40 or more hours a week are the ones who fund the BLM so that campers can live for free.
The vault toilets are atrocious and you rarely see a Ranger- CLEARY some huge signs that current funding is not covering actual use demands.😂😂😂 but go aheads and keep complaining while you're unwilling to pay for proper funding. Reduce the number of people or increase funding to cover expenses. Its not the BLM's problem people are poor.
@@bnewland1958 that's what they're saying. As well as salaries for personnel. I guess the govt doesn't pay their employees anymore. It's based on proceeds from sales.
The majority of people seem to only stay November through March and won't get full value for the permits. Yes, it's still cheaper than a camp ground, but 300% is a huge increase.
No one sane increases the price by 300% and expects sales to remain exactly the same. I camped at LaPosa South the last two winters - all of 2022 and part of 2023 and will be there this winter. In all the time I was there I saw one ranger - ONE - who drove through without stopping. As for Law Enforcement, the only LEO I ever saw was from the Quartzsite PD when an elderly lady was dropped off by her caregiver. At one point, witnessing an altercation that appeared to have the potential to become violent, I attempted to contact BLM law enforcement. I called the site office and the volunteer said they don't have any way to contact the BLM law enforcement and told me I had to call the Yuma Field Office. The Yuma Field Office had no idea how to contact BLM law enforcement and kept me on hold for 10 minutes trying to find out. Turns out he was unavailable. No reason given. So the $90,000+ - $100,000+ salaries for "law enforcement" are pretty much a joke. Volunteers do all the work. I've ever seen, or talked to anyone who has seen, paid BLM employees at the LTVAs. Yes, the BLM pays for trash pickup and water service, and the dump stations. And yes, they are building a new dump megaplex at one of the other LaPosa areas, but to expect people, many of whom are seniors on limited incomes, or people who live in their vehicles because of medical or psychological issues that prevent them from living "normal" lives, to swallow a 300% price increase is absurd. I hope that it is in fact a "shock tactic" to get people to easily accept an increase to $300 or so. However, I have a sad suspicion that is not the case and they actually believe they will get rid of the "riff raff" who have limited means and thus encourage only the more well-heeled travelers to stay in the LTVAs. I personally suspect that if the increase does go through not only will it substantially reduce the number of people staying in the LTVAs but it will increase the number of people ignoring the 14 day stay limit in the surrounding BLM camping areas. From what I've seen, many people in those areas simply ignore the stay limit and it is rarely enforced. I may be wrong, but that's what I anticipate would happen. So instead of cashing in on a 300% increase in revenue they will have additional expense to enforce the stay limit for the surrounding areas and additional costs for environmental remediation from increased usage, and from people leaving trash at their camps rather than drive to the nearest public landfill to drop off their trash. I've already commented to the BLM and wrote to my Congressional Representative asking that he intervene to suggest an increase in the BLM budget (I suggested switching the budget from the Air Force because purchasing one less B21 bomber would pay for the desired increase in the Yuma Field Office LTVA budget for more than 2 years)
If this goes through, it will DEFINITELY mean people ignoring 14 day limits. They're going to go somewhere. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments.
😮😮😮 Well, written and very much true. I feel the same way that the people that can’t afford this now will go park out in the desert further and may not go by the rules, therefore leaving trash, dumping waste and destroying the land we’re trying to protect so any money that they do make will have to be spent on cleaning up areas they’ve never had to clean up before. Also they are no way ever going to get 100% of these numbers with any kind of increase at all alone a 300% increase there’s no way in hell that they will ever get the same numbers so thinking they’re going to make $3 million as a total pile of BS That they won’t be able to clean up. I have paid for many passes at $180 because they can’t afford it now to think that they can charge even $200 would be pushing it for some of these people. I propose absolutely a $200 this year and maybe as high as $300 next year a little bit at a time people can plan for there’s nobody going to be able to plan for $600😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
It is a significant increase, and will hurt some people, but it is still FAR more affordable than other options. I've never stayed there and never will, but even at $600, these people should be thankful they have this option. It doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.
@@alaska-bornfloridaman It's free at national and state forest and parks with a 14 day limit then moving 25 miles each time. That huge increase in populations will make dispersal more difficult and cause infinitely more trash for rangers to pick up. $95Billion for Ukrainians, Israelis and Taiwanese but FK US tax payers over on land they already pay for in taxes is doing it wrong and must change. Go vote for Kamala for more of your kind of bullying the poor.
Same thing happening in New Mexico. Huge rate increase for a seasonal pass. We were told by a fish and game agent that they were trying to discourage people from camping through the winter here. He actually told us, “we don’t want them here.”
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” I sometimes stay in Arizona LTVAs overnight when passing through. It's a nice community, and compared to the car camp/boondock I usually do, it's nice to have some people around who aren't going to bother me (you never know how curious desert rats get when a new vehicle that appears unoccupied shows up). Market survey needs to include the free options, not just the paid options.
US citizens who've been paying taxes in the USA all their lives should continue to pay $180 for the winter, Canadiens and other nationals who come here as snowbirds should pay more sorry
I paid the 7 month fee for the LTVA but stayed in 1 place in the desert . My garbage was disposed of at Laposa North or at the town dump and I recycled everything I could. I picked up other peoples recyclables on my daily walk and dispised of them properly. I didnt use their water because it was so bad. I shopped locally most of the time. But after they resurfaced the roads the garbage became a real problem in both Laposa North and South. I will save my money and just move every 14 days. I will dispose of my garbage properly in Quartzsite and Bouse since for now it is free. When the lazy idiots who leave their garbage on the desert ruin it for the rezt of us I will make other plans
This will be the worst thing that ever happens to our free public lands. 😢 people that can’t afford the $400,$500,$600 for the winter and specially at one time Fee, instead of month a month… will go live out in the desert and dump their trash and pull their waist black tank valve and destroy what we’re trying to protect😮😢😢😢
Then they will move to a town park near you, or on a side street near you and do the same thing, like in the movie "Christmas Vacation" where the brother empties his black water tank in the street drain! @@walkingfish7123
'I'm sure they're getting it...' And I'm sure they're ignoring it. We've attended several of these while living in Colorado. In every case, the public input was overwhelming against the government proposal. And in every case, the proposal was implemented anyway. It is all a smokescreen to suggest they listen to us. In other words, it is all a lie. They will do whatever they want to do regardless of what the citizens want. As usual, they ignore the 'public servant' idea.
I empathise and know the government often doesn't listen. That said, I wouldn't want to discourange feedback - because sometimes they do listen. Sometimes the force of the flood of feedback forces them to. Just look at what just happened in Florida state parks.
@@RVMiles, we didn't stop them, though. DeSantis is only pausing the project for a few months to "revisit later." (when Floridians forget about it) While Floridians are cheering their victory, DeSantis will implement it behind our backs, just as planned all along. Without more whistleblowers, this won't stop, and it definitely won't stop unless people stop it with more finality than simply self-congratulation. People should be fighting like their lives depend upon it (and it does,) but they aren't, not even close. Look at what is going on in Springfield, OH right now.
I am rving full time in my class B van. I have been on the road full time for over a year. I spent much of the winter in a COE campground that was charging $6/night but increased to $8/night. (Water and electric are turned off for the winter, so no bathrooms or showers) Since then I have been boondocking which I enjoy more as it is free, and I will continue to do that as often as I can. It is funny that the corp raised their rates 33% to keep up with inflation yet social security tells us inflation was only 3%.
Government isn't supposed to be a profit-making organization. But basing LTVA cost on market research of for-profit enterprises turns it into one. Because of inflation, they must raise the fee; that makes sense. But the new amount should be based on real & predicted costs of maintaining the area.
Exactly right. They are turning it into a for-profit business, using land and resources WE taxpayers have already paid for. Try that with any other business- imagine becoming a partner owning a store and buying into it. Then you keep investing more money each year. Then if you want something from the store, you have to buy it at full price- but never receive anything back for the investment. Seems like pretty poor business, but that is what is happening here. We pay for the land, we pay the rangers, then we have to pay again to use it. Make the fees reasonable, enough to cover actual expenses, and it would be fine. But increasing fees beyond inflation rates without increasing amenities will only push people away, to other places that are either free, lower cost, or where you get more for your dollar.
I suggest that Jason Epperson (Mr. RV Miles himself) be supported to become the "friend of the court" representative of his 100,000+ subscribers, representing all of us as a group. The BLM should provide him all the time and consideration deserving what the sum total of tens of thousands together deserve. His presentation would include summarized input from his subscribers along with representative stories from some real campers representing the different types of RVers. The presentation would also benefit from legal input and input from one or more industry experts. If we all, as we can, chip in a little to support this, we could push this proposal back to a rational level. (Now, Jason has a life already and puts a great amount of time into the treasure that is RV Miles, so we may need another resource, but certainly his input will be most valuable.)
Thank you Jason for bringing this to our attention. I’ve spent a few weeks, not months, at LTVA La Posa South for many years. I'm on the high end of that spectrum you referenced with a $300k RV. I go there to visit friends, many of whom will not be able to afford the increase. I can afford it, but the Yuma office can stick that plan where the sun don’t shine. ( For you English teachers …. Yes I know the grammatical error in that idiomatic expression.)
USBLS CPI calculator says $180 in Jan 2008 would be $268 in July 2024. A $300 LTVA seasonal fee would be reasonable, based on CPI alone, and to cover the operational deficit. Congress cut the BLM appropriation by 6% from 2023 to 2024. So the LTVA is operating at a loss, and appropriations are decreasing. Who’s to pay? The $600/7-month rate is about $20/week. Is that unreasonable when you get unlimited trash and dump services? We witnessed lots of trash from the free areas coming into the LTVA as one camper in an organized group purchased the LTVA permit. This abuse must stop.
@@kar-r5i4f You get what you pay for! I pay almost $40 a month just for trash pickup alone at my house. The only real debate here is who should be paying for the LTVAs - residents or taxpayers? I say RESIDENTS! I guess I would not be opposed to a reduced/subsidized rate for anyone near the poverty level. But if you do that, you also need another expensive layer of bureaucracy to process/verify those low-income applications.
A lot of free boondocking doesn’t include any amenities, no pit toilets, no dump stations etc. $600 for up to 7 months is pretty cheap, it’s $85 a month or about $2.80 a day for limited services that aren’t available on free BLM land. Even if there wasn’t a 14 day limit folks would have to leave to find water and a dump station or pay for a mobile service. A forest service campground with pit toilets and no dump station is usually $8 a day if you have the lifetime interagency senior pass so $2.80 a day is a good deal with nearby water and dump stations in addition to a higher level of law enforcement presence. If someone is coming from the north to live in the south for the winter and can’t afford $85 a month then they have major financial issues. At 10 miles a gallon that 1,400 mile trip is going to involve 140 gallons of gas at $4 a gallon or $560 just to get there and another $560 to get home, plus food, propane etc. The BLM budget looked reasonable and limiting the next increase until the CPI is 20% higher is more than reasonable. Since 2008 it rose about 46%, so if that was constant you’re talking about an increase every 8 years. I’m not saying that there aren’t people on the fringe trying to squeeze every nickel but the majority of the folks can make it work. Maybe the BLM can have a discount for those below a certain income level.
Great analysis, great comment. Fees should be high enough to cover all costs. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing LTVAs. Increased fees should improve infrastructure and maybe even provide better security. And yes, maybe a reduced fee schedule or rebate program for those near the poverty level. Anything that keeps poverty level individuals from becoming homeless is probably worth it even if means higher fees for those who have the ability to pay.
In a similar vein, the recent increase in pricing for the Yuma and Imperial Dam Long-Term Visitor Areas (LTVAs) has raised concerns among visitors and local businesses. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has proposed raising fees for long-term permits from $180 to $600 and short-term permits from $40 to $20012. This significant hike in fees could deter many visitors, particularly those who rely on affordable long-term camping options. The Yuma and Imperial Dam LTVAs are popular destinations for snowbirds and long-term campers who contribute to the local economy by spending money on goods and services in the surrounding areas. A substantial increase in fees could lead to a decline in the number of visitors, resulting in a loss of tourism revenue for local businesses. Some estimates suggest that the area could lose at least 50 percent of its tourism and revenue due to the fee increase. In summary, while the proposals in both Florida and the Yuma/Imperial Dam LTVAs aim to generate additional revenue, they risk driving away tourists and reducing the economic benefits these areas currently provide.
_"The Yuma and Imperial Dam LTVAs are popular destinations for snowbirds and long-term campers who contribute to the local economy by spending money on goods and services in the surrounding areas."_ True, but very low income people using the LTVAs in the winter months because they're homeless (houseless ?) aren't spending a lot in the local economy no matter where they stay. They might even be consuming local tax-funded services. All this being said, a $300 fee for the winter seems reasonable and I suspect would be tolerated by snowbirds and other long-term campers of at least middle income.
@@DavidHuffTexas you assume the lower income folks don't buy groceries, repairs on their rv, gas? That being said, I fall into the mid to upper income folks and don't mind paying $300, that in my mind, is still a good value. Anything more than that, I'm investing those funds into more power storage and boondocking for free. It irks me that I have to pay anything at all for these "public" lands that I ALREADY pay for with my taxes...and trust me, I pay A LOT of taxes!
@@CharlesAnsmanwhat an ignorant comment. Most of the people using LTVA’s are elderly and on a very fixed income, barely able to afford groceries and medications.
This is the land we pay taxes for. Blm is a goverment agency tasked to maintain the land. Not rent it out. Infact we shouldnt have to pay for it unless it becomes a burden to clean it and we gotta pay for more blm staff to service the area.
The businesses in the area will suffer, cause people that were using these areas to live there will no longer be buying groceries, using laundromats, etc. because they will find other places to live. Sad situation.
Less than $3 per day. Please tell me where else in America you can live for less than $3 per day? It takes money to run these places and with everyone quitting their job to become full time RVers, where else are the federal tax dollars going to come from to fund the BLM? You people live in fantasy land where you think some magic ferry just pays all the bills and pays for all of the services.
I’ve visited Quartzite area and I didn’t stay at LTVA’s. I stayed on one of the many gravel BLM free camping areas. There’s miles and miles of free camping all around Quartzite. You must relocate every 2 weeks but that’s ok.
Don’t you suppose that this is the beginning of the end for those free spots too? Whether or not they get this money, they’ll always look for ways to get more. I believe if they get away with this that it won’t be all that many years before free camping on ANY BLM land is gone. They’ll always want more Rangers and pick ups for them to drive and secretaries to do their paperwork and office buildings for these people to work in.
@@kellycromwell4982 yep that’s possible. Sounds like the plan is to lower the population and move all the survivors into smart cities tightly controlling their movements.
Data check - The 2024 estimated annual visitors to the area of 80,000+ fits data from 2018/2019 prepandemic usage trendline. 2020 and 2021 levels were a huge spike. We all know the camping craze was not permanent lifestyle change for many. Rental rates... Some zoned areas are more desirable, or would be if well serviced. Those using the area should pay more. Established campsite all set up for months at a time versus having to move every 2 weeks seems like a huge benefit. $600 for around 6 months of basic lot rental is CHEAP even if off grid boondocking. Unfortunately short term visitors would be basically locked out of those areas by the long term users. The 14 day sites and more expensive overnight camps would still get used at their respective 'rental ' rates. Overall the BLM must balance services they provide within budget. This is setting up a 3 tiered campsite management program that includes long term seasonal offgrid sites.
My issue is that those of us who only want to stay 1 night are not allowed to unless we buy a 14 day permit. That’s ridiculous! We’ve been turned away from several spots and told to go across the road where it is free.
Wow, that increase is way too high. I've stayed at some of the LTVA's but not for the entire summer. I am wondering if there is pressure from the RV parks in the southwest as they compete with the LTVA's for customers? I agree that there should be an increase in fees, so they can manage these area's better, but the fees they are proposing are way too high, and will make the 14 day , area's overcrowded. Thanks so much for the information!
I'm all for realistic user fees (as opposed to taxes that have nothing to do with use), but it appears that their "market research" is apples to oranges comparisons at best and not rooted in actual grounded analysis.
No repairs have been done to the old systems at the LTVA in Quartzsite, AZ for years and the new ones that have been built are still not working so what are you getting for your money. The only vault toilet that I have seen that was maintained was near the camp host the others you would not dare to go in after a few days due to no maintenance, so whoever they paying for maintenance is not doing their job right now. Campsites with higher fees have clean restrooms, power, water, showers, and sometimes even a pool and restaurant are they going to make all these improvements for the $600 I am betting the answer is no. We have plenty of money for wars and bridges to nowhere but helping poor Americans is last on the list. If they go to $600 I'll stay in the BLM 14-day areas, it's better to go into town for water and not the LTVA.
The contractor for that new LaPosa service area did not drill deep enough for the water supply for the brand new dump stations and water fills and now is locked in a legal battle with the Yuma BLM field station. Those dump stations ma sit unused for years because neither the contractor nor government are considering how badly they look to hundreds of thousands of annual big tent show visitors who pay high taxes for the same area they have to pay twice for.
Why wasn’t the Yuma field office telling,standing over contractors to dig at proper depths,or did the contractor dig at the depth they were told to dig and then when it didn’t work,they told contractor you didn’t dig deep enough???
@@johnsmith1424 I've worked for the federal government in California from both sides--- federal contractor and federal civil service worker and can guess what happened. BLM assigns a hydrologist contractor to drill pilot holes for water. He drills 200 feet and hits water but cuts corners and does not test the water for safe for human consumption. BLM hires a water well drilling company and hands over the hydrologist's results. The well contractor does find water at 200 feet, but determines that it is an aquifer of seepage from the BLM's open septic system a couple hundred yards away. The well contractor tells Yuma Office they did it wrong, the BLM replies back that the well driller was to find potable water, the contractor says "nah ah" and BLM sues.
@@dustup2249 that sounds like that could happen,I was just putting out there a couple options probing to see if anyone new Exactly what went wrong,because you and I both no when GOV touches something it turns to something other than potable water,I was a general contractor for 30 years so I to have seen my fare share of,not my fault!!!
@@debvozall of which comes from government. Whether neighborhood local, city, county, state, federal, it's all one great ecosystem that created the greatest country on the planet!
Please tell me how parking your van on an environmentally devastated piece of gravel comprised of metal shards and rubble at the toxic tail end of the Colorado, jampacked among rv's with their unenclosed generators blasting away is worth such an increase. If they hired a security guard to keep the locals from using the dumpsters there wouldn't be mountains of trash like there were last year.
Walking into a fierce wind here...I was there in January and witnessed the piles of trash, very long dump station lines, water hogs holding up another very long line of RV'ers and many, many inconsiderate small-time RUclipsr's begging for funding. Untold numbers of healthy young people that could work for a living but asking for handouts camping in their own trash and most with a dog running free. A mass of drug abuse and 'old bus hippies' relieving themselves on the ground and in buckets. That said, if the BLM actually used the new increase to improve water, dump stations, pit toilets and trash facilities, I am all for it. Not to say it is all bad, the bad was outnumbered by far with clean sites and well setup campsites by responsible RV'ers. I know many wonderful Nomads that take care of their own, ask for nothing and usually share what they have...but Quartzsite is loaded with the other side of the fence, people abusing the system.
Jason, thanks for the video on this subject! For the last 4 years or so we have been camping at La Posa South or Imperial Dam, occasionally the 14 day free areas when passing thru. Not full time so a few weeks here or there during the season. Been there Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb this past season & I must say the number of sales for both Imperial & La Posa reported on the Bus Plan seem suspect. I reviewed the charts in the plan & they seem under reported. I’ve been an accountant my whole life & if this was a company P&L I would find it interesting to say the least. Seeing as I’ve been there during the high season & know they take in a lot of cash, something seems off with these numbers. I’m wondering, since this is public lands, public info, if there is a way to see actual financial statements for the BLM field office? I just don’t believe they only sold 9,000 permits between the 4 La Posa locations & Imperial Dam.
I stayed at one of the CA sites last year with no water, sewage or pit toilets, only trash. I didn't think the $180 was worth it for just the one service and not having to move every 2 weeks, especially since the trash services are free to everyone. There is no way I am going to pay even 1 penny more unless the other services are added. I did try the Imperial Dam site, but I have two dogs that look scary when they start barking at people and there were too many people for them. I was afraid there would be complaints and I would be kicked out. Quartzite and Imerial Dam are out even though I have been working with my dogs to improve this (it is a work in progress). So no, I will not be using one of the LTVA sites this year. I am going to stay up farther north where it is colder (I prefer the cold) and there are less people. I figure the cost of propane will be offset by the cost of gas and the BLM fee. If they do raise the prices that much there is no way I will ever use one of those sites again.
I only ever pay the $40/2 weeks just to stay with friends who are staying there for the winter. Personally, I think even that is outrageous for the limited services I participate in when staying there. I actually prefer free boondocking areas when in the area, but I'm rather tired of the same old same old, so I'll be exploring other areas this year. BLM needs a better marketing group if it's going to do "surveys."
It could appear so yet as he mentioned in the video it also looks like the blm wants to not decrease attendance because they want and need the added revenue. Perhaps a case of wanting their cake and eating it to!
This is crazy. I do agree there needs to be an increase. Prices on anything else has stayed the same since 2008. But increases need to be done gradually. I hope they come up with something else.
I took the opportunity to submit a comment on the proposal. There is a lot more going on than just the LTV, most of it much needed like new campgrounds and reasonable price increases. While $600 for 7 months is still a bargain, how many actually stay the full 7 months. A large number come in just after Christmas and leave by the end of March. When you look at spending $600 for 3 months, the numbers are starting to look far different. My fear is that this will drive many campers to other areas, some not currently used or areas that see little use and this will just lead to more land degraded. Many of the campers are seniors. Most are doing OK but still, increasing more than 3 fold is not in the budget. In my comments to the BLM, I suggested stepped increases over a 5 year period to prevent the wholesale movement to other lands and still get the BLM to where it needs to be.
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Budget concious campers will seek out the CHEAP AND ISOLATED SPOTS and will continue to shun the more costly govt sponsored sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These "seniors" that you speak of are still not going to be able to live somewhere else for less than $3 per day, which is what this increase amounts to. And if they are on a fixed income then they'll stay a full 7 months instead of 3 months. And if campers do start overcrowding other areas, then those prices will increase as well. Right now we have too many homeless people who we're referring to as "RVers", meanwhile these government and state run campgrounds are degrading and making the good RVers leave the lifestyle.
@@Ceerix LIE-berals and their Woke allies and greedy civil service unions simply froth at the mouth in rage - every time they think of the general public having cheap or FREE FUN - with govt NOT GETTING A FEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@scottmichaels12 Go ahead and CRY union baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The general public will GO AROUND YOU to places THEY CAN AFFORD - and they will CUT YOU OUT of the loop!!!!!!!!!!
I have stayed at the LTVAs in Quartzsite & yuma several years, off & on, 2016 - 2024 to date. The current fee is low, but not for the amenities. The amenities are junk. Not kept and mismanaged. I also volunteered one season, never again. Treated as a low end employee while working 8-10 hours with extremely limited or no breaks on the two days you work, especially Jan-Feb. The stipend is currently a season pass, and $100 per month with a minimum employment period of 90 days, or zero stipend. All of the volunteers combind make less than ONE GS9 gov employee. So the Blm is not loosing money on employees in fact that are making a killing using people to do the work of paid employees. I agree that a higher fee MAY help with the disrepair of the amenities, however not gouging the elderly, and disabled guests, witch are the majority that visit these places. If guests go back to the 14 day places it will only add to any problems that already exsist, and could cause closures for those areas. The GOV has a huge solar farm approved to be built this year, in Blyth CA, 20 miles away, could this have anything to do with this? I think it does.
I was in the movie Nomad land and all nomads must become aware of how to deal with LEO's when the officer starts grilling you about if you live in your vehicle. I have experienced in az on 3 occasions where the ranger would try to trick us into saying we were fulltimers so they could ban us from all public lands for all time by reporting us as 'residential campers'. You must say NO and thatt you are simply vacationing, recreating on the land. You're an avid photographer there to photograph the stunning night skies...etc etc. I was a Nomad for over a decade and I feel RUclipsr Nomads hungry for continual content are the most detrimental thing that has happened to Quartzsite and other public lands. With the closures of public land over time it has become a challenging lifestyle to sustain compared to before youtube became popular. Just devastating to the entire nomadic community.
Imperial Dam area was a perfect place to stay during covid. That area has nice facilities and easy access to Yuma. Maybe if they just double the $180 fee it wouldn’t be such a huge increase. It is a great place to stay warm in the winter.
As you said in your video, the price increase will cause RVers to move about more on BLM causing more land use issues. There isn't enough BLM rangers to enforce overstays as it is. From some of the comments below is seems the LTVA isn't that great of a place. I don't agree with that huge of an increase for such little amenities
Imperial Damm has at least 4 lines for dumping and freshwater and waste “for free”! There are other LTVA where you have to go dump somewhere else and to pay extra money.
That's because you live in a van that does not have a 10 gallon waste tank, so like all those other van life RTRs you have to crowd around the limited pit toilets by BLM regulation or risk an uppity RV Karen snitching on you for being too far away from the flock. Pro tip: Go back to Babylon and get a job until you can afford an RV so you can disperse camp.
Van lifers always cry about close neighbors at the LTVAs because they are mandated to camp within 500 feet of a vault toilet if their conveyance does not have a permanent waste tank 10 gallons or larger. Buy a class C. There are thousands for sale and some are nearly free because people that leave the lifestyle for whatever reason cannot park them on the street or in the open on their property in most municipalities without having them towed and crushed.
They built a new station. For water and dump site. BUT THEY DIDNT DRILL FAR ENOUGH AND THERE IS NO WATER! So we are Still waiting in line for 2 dump stations, and rotten water. Just because they screwed up on the dump station, WHY ARE WE BEING CHARGED FOR THEIR MISTAKES!!! 20% increase is ok but a 300% is Ridiculous!!! I can go to an rv site for less then that! They are a government agency! Not a business! Get your money from the tax payers budget!
Thanks for the video. You make things more clear. I have gong to Quartzsite for meet ups and to see the big tent and RV show. I have stayed on the free BLM for 14 days and I have stated at the LTVA but not more than another 14 days. The prices they are proposing are ridiculously high. If the $200 a month goes through I wont be staying at the LTVA, I will just move to another BLM area for free.
Honestly, we just went for the fun. Have some really good friends there that we will miss because they are saying that they won’t be able to afford the massive increase. We have Spent a lot of money 💴 in Quartzite and Lake Havasu. I’m sad to see the impact of the small businesses who barely got through the pandemic and now this!?!?
@@RippSnortin right, and with water and trash, and sewer dump and lots of space to choose, spread out. $3 a day is a bargain. So why not "let the market decide" for those that want to run it like a for-profit business, they should be all in for this increase.
@RVMiles that's a choice. But then you'll be spending gas running to town for water, trash and dumping the poo. Or just leave the trash and dump the poo in a wash.
In the last four years, I have probably spent altogether nine months in the quartzite area. I always register because I always want uncle Sam to know and understand that we appreciate using our own land. LTVA at $180 a year is attractive when you consider that you get, the amenities, including a place to dump your garbage. Which means normally there is not that much garbage around as an eyesore. I have stayed mostly in areas outside of the LTV because I like being at quite a distance from my closest neighbor. The areas close to the amenities are very very crowded. To me those areas look like refugee camps.
Nice analysis Jason. Not familiar with LTVA's but this sounds like another example of people who don't use and/or understand the services offered making decisions for those who do!!
The Yuma Field Office of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) manages 1.2 million acres of land in southwestern Arizona and southeastern California. This area includes 155 miles of the lower Colorado River. The wages stated are for ALL of these lands. Very misleading. You don't see these employees much during the season at the LTVA. Plus where is the income from the campgrounds? Why is that not included?
A proposal for $600 for a LTVA permit at the LaPosa and Imperial Dam LTVAs for September 15th through April 15th starting in2025 with trash service, pit toilets and dump stations is crazy. I have heard that we need more rangers hired at the LTVAs but wow! You know there are campgrounds in and around Quartzite that offer electric only sites and full hookup sites with flush toilets, showers and sometimes mini rec rooms for reading and games for that amount of money maybe a little more over the same 7 month period. I was thinking about going this year as a bucket list trip and to see the big tent show, and the rock and gem show and the RTR and because I hate Ohio winters ,and I probably still go this October until April , but if I go back to Quartzite in 2025 and beyond I might stay at a campground in town and get more amenities if staying at the LTVAs for 7 months is going to cost so much. God I hope they don’t price gouge. I can see raising the $180 7 month permit to $280 or even $300 but $600 to boondock camp on dirt/gravel for 7 months. Nope!
Woke LIE-berals and their civil service union allies think the world belongs to them and that they are ENTITLED to rent it out to the rest of us for THEIR PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!! The unions are just as happy if you stay home and suffer as it makes less work for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$600 for 7 months of living comes to about $3 a day. Where else in America can you live for $3/day? I think they need to raise the prices even more to weed out the riff raff.
@scottmichaels12 So, wow. You get to decide who is riffraff and who isn't based on income? Charging to stay on land we the people own is ludicrous when you consider the billions that we give away to other countries.
@@Rvfootprints It isn't "staying" on public land when you don't move for months on end...that's called squatting and you're depriving the rest of us the use of that public land. There will still be plenty of free areas with 14 day stay limits and zero services. Do you complain about highway tolls? Car registration/license fees to be able to drive on public roadways?
I think the people who use the LTVA areas will start using the BLM 14 day free areas and use the PIT STOP for their dump/fill location. which in turn might crowd the 14 day BLM areas and create more traffic when i want to dump/fill at PIT STOP. No problem for me, I'm patient and tolerant of others who, like me, need FREE as much as possible. Thank you for clarification on this topic. Great job!
When I heard the news, I was SHOCKED. But - doing the math, $600 for 7 months is still less than $3 per day. And - the BLM really needs the money for infrastructure and ENFORCEMENT. Not to mention picking up all the trash and tires some idiots leave behind. THANKS Jason.
Actually they don't. You are blindly trusting the government. They get millions of federal money. They need to better manage the money that they already get!!
Maybe if BLM actually did any enforcement it would be more reasonable, but they are paying those $90+ to $100+ thousand per year law enforcement salaries when the average salary for federal law enforcement is less than $71,000 per year and you never see a BLM LEO. As for "doing the math" Jason raised a very good point when he said that it is pointless to compare long term camping costs to single night camping costs because no one would pay the "single night" fee every night for 7 months - it is not economically feasible for anyone without a high 7 figure income to even consider.
No they don't need it, they already receive millions from the taxpayers. This has nothing to do with infrastructure or enforcement, it's about making it prohibitively expensive for all but the rich to live in RV's and travel freely in the country's wide-open natural lands. Agenda 2030.
This will affect the elderly with very low limited income the hardest. The widows who never worked as their husbands were the bread winners. Making $600 - $800 month social security. Basically kicking these people out on the streets not being able to afford driving around to free 14 day BLM locations due to fuel expenses. We should all look out for our ever increasing elderly population. Hopefully the gov’t will take this under advisement and protect these people if the increase does go into effect. God bless them all.
While you are 100% correct, I doubt there will be much sympathy for the elderly. When I am on social media maybe commenting on something, I just get called a “greedy boomer that ruined the country” or a “selfish boomer that craps on young people” or “boomers had it easy”. Much has been promoted to view older Americans in a negative light, many even wishing us gone due to our posting about memories of better times under better leadership. While there are so many elderly living in poverty, it’s assumed we all had great jobs, bought a house while making minimum wage and must have wasted all our money on expensive vacations. It’s sad.
@@katydid2877 very sad. Same people pointing fingers who would never go for laws like right to die/euthanasia. They want us all to go away but that’s easier said than done. The population of the elderly will continue to grow and people and governments won’t be able to hide their heads in the sand indefinitely. And Karma is a real bitch.
@@jasonjames4254 and a sliding fee schedule for those below the 200%. At least something to help the elderly out instead of just disregarding their circumstances.
No one will stay and pay this kind of increase! Quartzsite has a big RV show which is the only time it gets REAL busy. A lot of Canadians come down and use the LTVA camping areas. Our Canadians friends will NOT pay this. This will be a loss of revenue for local businesses too. Biggest question is what does staff do because we have stayed there short term, 14 days and NEVER saw any BLM ranger. You cant even get a hold of BLM office. We had issue and no one could getba hold of anyone!! We will NOT PAY to go here ever again!
What happens at the RV show? Aren't there new RVs for sale that cost tens of thousands of dollars? People who can afford to buy an RV can't afford to use it?
I think your failing to realize that the very reason you never saw a ranger and can't get ahold of the office is because the BLM does not have the budget to pay for staff. That's exactly why the fee increases are needed.
@@samgibson684 So your solution to gross offenders going untouched is having fewer rangers working with broken equipment to patrol campgrounds with crumbling infrastructure where criminals live? Might as well just privatize the LTVAs then and see what happens to rates and
Here in the East, they're making more and more free campsites in the National Forest 15 dollar a night pay sites. Our solution while visiting an area with limited free sites was to park our camper along a lesser used road, or dead end road, that sees little to no traffic, set up a tent the required number of feet from the road, and live in our camper like we normally do. Most dispersed free campsites are feet from the road anyway, often with several cars an hour passing by creating noise or kicking up dust. So other than having to walk 100-300 feet from the road to enjoy our fire in the evening, and having even more peace and privacy, nothing much has changed.
We only visit the LTVA to attend the Quartzite RV Show. Spending $200 for 2-3 nights, is more than I'll pay. Perhaps BLM will offer a 1 week, permit to attend the Quartzite Show, for $50 verses $200 for the month.
Agree. You should be paid as any US Govt employee would be paid. For these duties. “Volunteer” is a misnomer, and BLM should hire people to the Civil Service as seasonal employees.
So the feds spend around 70 billion in overseas aid, the BLM is saying they cant afford to keep LTVA cost as they are. Might as well go after American Citizens camping in the desert for the winter.
Sounds like a pretty good proposal overall, and particularly if it is a response to financial losses by taxpayers, but it needs to be stepped rather than a lump-sum increase and it needs to be equitable between locations.
Fair point, but why don't they step up cracking down on those that are abusing and trashing BLM land(?) Raising prices on rule/law abiding BLM users, will just cause the riff raft to go abuse and trash other areas of the BLM, that aren't subject to the major price increase. Nothing like punishing rule/law abiding BLM users, while letting all the actual abusers off 100% scot free... if this is the logic they're applying, it's beyond frustrating }:(
People of all incomes have a right to use public land. There is a difference between low income and riff raff- many low income people behave well, and Riff raff don't pay for permits now, and still won't; but they will continue to trash places.
You don't seem to understand that we're all the riff raff to those using this as a tool to stop people living freely in RV's, and they will just keep pushing until it's too expensive for all but the .1%
What is truly needed, is a "BLM Pass Card" that can be scanned periodically (and accessed via the internet) to help ensure everyone's in compliance with their remaining number of days on BLM land. The "BLM Pass" could also help keep track of those banned from using BLM land, due to major BLM rules violations.
Just more government oversight and they will increase rates to cover costs and employees. The system works well now, COVID caused a spike that will reduce over the next couple years.
This price increase will discourage many boondockers. Many can’t afford it and others just do not want to spend that much. I would not trust the safety of the water and I hear the restrooms are horrible. There will be a big loss to the businesses in the community at a time when most businesses are struggling already.
You lost me as soon as you said “pay your fair share”. As a citizen of the United States, I am a public land owner. Why should we have to pay for access to land we own?
@@sgriffith2353 You must not be very old. I remember when that was paid for by taxes. Now it is a user fee and permit fee. We are getting less for more money.
@@Sides1160you must be too young, if you think personal property rights includes public trust lands. Read US history starting in the 1600s which led to the 1800s and unspeakable human rights abuses with indigenous people.
@@jr.6199 you’re an idiot. At no point did I claim personal property rights. I pointed out that the land is owned by we the people, making all of us public land owners. The government has shifted money away from things that it used to pay for, to other things. Making citizens pay usage fees for what used to be free or a minimal cost.
The fees are unconstitutional. These are public lands and no federal agency can charge for you to use public lands nor can they tax you to use the land. Any and all fees or taxes has to be approved specifically through congress and no other way. The only reason they are doing this, is because sheep people have played into their ploy to charge. Yes, they say we are going to charge you and you willingly gave up your money. Now they are doing it more boldly regardless of the supreme court ruling on the Chevron case. They are going to get as much money out of you until they are sued, because they will never have to give it back. The courts will just tell them to stop charging you and they will at that time, years down the road. By that time, they'll have billions out of your pockets.
They don't enforce the 14 day limit in the free area's, not enough rangers. They just "respond" when there's a complaint on the free area's. Fee increase is outrageous in one year!
Yup, they're gonna punish the rule/law abding BLM users with a fee increase, while all the rift raft get off scot free and get to go on violating the rules, and trashing the remaining free areas, because they know nobody will do anything.
Years ago, the land was "Public land" and used freely by everyone. Then it was changed to "State Trust land" so it could be better protected for the future. Next it became "BLM land" SO odd parcels could be auctioned off. Now it has become Private Managed Land and we must pay ever increasing fees to even walk on it. Reminds me of "The King's Land".......just with a different name. *Did you know that Government workers, police, firemen, and politicians have private camping grounds that are closed to the general population?
I was aware of this and never understood why such types of segregation/s were allowed to happen in the first place, this is truly gov't cronyism at play. Instead of isolating these places from general public use, why couldn't they just have simply given early (yearly) booking preferences to these groups vs isolating other tax payers(?) One thing is for sure, the original reason these lands were set aside, was so they could be used by everyone for the foreseeable future, these lands were not originally set aside to have all kinds of crazy restrictions, rules, and sky high entry fees imposed... the operating capital was (and still is) supposed to come from tax revenues NOT from individual tax payers paying entry fees. It's not the taxpayer's fault that the gov't can't balance the budget and make this work like it was originally intended.
@@__WJK__ Texas took a different approach. They divided up all the State land and sold 99 year leases on them. At least the land was being used and the state got the revenue.
And the next steps will be to restrict use to certain user groups, and gradually restrict more and more groups until the land is off limits to the "public", and is only open to a select few users.
Mooring fees, docking fees, and yes even anchoring fees. $600 for 7 months comes to less than $3 per day. I hate to tell you but living on a boat will cost you more than $3/day. Some anchoring fees are $20/day or more. You people need to get it out of your head that you can live for free. Things cost money and the taxpayers fund things like the BLM. If everyone quit their job and lived for free in and RV or on a boat, where would the tax dollars that keep the country running come from? And since you want to live on a boat, who do you think funds the Coast Guard?
@@scottmichaels12 Oh QUIT WHINING about people trying to find bargains!!!!!!!! Life DOES NOT AND SHOULD NOT be charged for according to the GREEDY DEMANDS OF CIVIL SERVICE UNIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The advantage of a boat is that it CAN CARRY lots of supplies for extended stays AWAY FROM GREEDY GOVT REPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course - as previously mentioned -the boater will GET HIT when supplies run low and a trip to town is required...................but good planning CAN MINIMIZE the price gouging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blm is a USA taxes subsidized program which for me means usa citizens should pay less and foreigners need to pay more since they are not paying usa taxes. This happens to usa citizens when they travel internationally locals pay less we pay more. Blm rates would benefit to follow the same logic.
BRILLIANT and cogent discussion of an issue that is almost a life and death situation for many people on limited incomes, including seniors and people with disabilities. The BLM has got to go back to the drawing board and get their money from somewhere else. Or be ready to pay for repairing and cleaning the areas surrounding the LTVA’s when they are trashed by people who simply cannot afford this price hike.
Tripling the price and expecting to sell the same number of passes is something only government could come up with. Ask New Jersey what happened when they massively increased tax rates on high income residents (Spoiler alert: They ended up with a DECREASE in revenue, because people don't just shrug and accept it when they have a choice).
Americans have already paid for this land. Why is the government renting it out to Americans?
because they gave all our taxdollars to illegals who get free food and housing while we have to rent the land we already paid for
The government is like the mob. They are here to protect you, from who? From them.
Because if there isn't a minimal fee, you'll end up with a giant homelescamp full of squaters.
@@GeoFry3 State County and Federal Lands account for about 70% of the land in the west. Millions and millions of acres. We have more than enough room. The Govt and its useful idiot cheerleaders are the real problem.
Wait until you find out about property taxes
I've been considering it for the last couple of years. I guess I'll just continue to boondock where it's free and move every 14 days.
Till they stop Boon docking.
@@raygongaware8647it sounds like they're already trying to make that illegal
@@NoneYabizness-e2y that's cool. I'll just go to California and do "urban boondocking" with the other 20,000 people doing it that actually work full-time jobs but can't afford housing. It's hilarious to think that rentseekers are upset that people camp on blm land and rotate sites as a strategy to avoid insane housing prices.
@@raygongaware8647Then it's time to pirate it.
A lot of people will do that
I am a homeless veteran (by choice, I do have assets and I am not poverty stricken, to be clear I have multiple income streams) living in a 2020 Class C Jayco that I bought brand new.
I camp host to offset my expenses. I clean toilets and sell ice / firewood / shower tokens in exchange for my camp site and access to free washer / dryer. I usually spend the winter at Corps of Engineers sites. Not an easy life. Not cheap. Every repair I have had done cost $1k to $2k.
Anyone that thinks living in an RV, full-time, is easy or cheap is delusional. It's not. It's hard. If you don't have some type of income and can't camp host / work / volunteer to offset your expenses you will suffer and suffer badly.
I'm on my fourth year as a full time RVer and third year camp hosting. It's hard. Even with various discounted federal and state park passes for discounted camping, it's not cheap and anyone that tells you that is lying to you.
You have a home bud. Keep doing your thing and enjoying life.
ive always said , to be an RV’r you need some mechanical expertise and some tools, or pay thru the nose for repairs.
Faith,
You are NOT HOMELESS...you are HO USELESS
That's great that you find things to do to earn money. My husband and I are soon to be full-timers, and we wanted to find something that we could really feel excited about. We found this: ruclips.net/video/60baIJyLmPI/видео.html Who doesn't want better health and more money? The product is the only one like it. There is NO COMPETITION. We just got started, (five weeks ago) and we love it! We love the technology and we love the business model. There is nothing else like it in the world. It is PORTABLE AND AFFORDABLE to do!
I've heard nightmares about RV's so that is why I purchased a van as on S.S. renting or buying was out of the question. I had several people help to build the van into an RV. I've been living in the van. I am disabled and live in chronic pain from back injuries and fibromyalgia. I cannot imagine having to spend money on LTVA more than the price is already. I have no funds to repair the van if it breaks down. My refrigerator has taken a dump so I am hoping to get a new one eventually. It's tough when you are in pain. I am educated, a former branch manager of an escrow company, so I try to think of ways to improve my situation but thus far, I've been unable to. If I had a choice, I would have a sticks and bricks home, but that is out of the monetary view. Unless I win the lottery, which I purchase a $1.00 ticket once or twice a month, things will seemingly remain the same. Camp hosting is not an option due to the pain. Never, did I ever, think this would happen to me. I planned on working until I was 65, then retiring to an inexpensive but nice area. Things don't go as planned for everyone and it seems government is making it more difficult. Charging the public more and more for things that are NEEDED should be considered a crime. We are doing our best to survive in RV's, vans and cars. At least we thought of shelter in these automobile options, thereby bypassing homelessness on the streets. Government needs to re-think who they want to increase fees for. Groceries, taxes, gas, propane, BLM land, etc. are all NEEDS.
Just wait, the free lands won't be free for long.. Great update. Appreciate the detailed explanation and feedback!
It's really awful when you get an RV to try to beat the system and the system will follow you anywhere you go like a bunch of leeches
when you say beat the system you mean at others expense thats really what we are talking about here. Some people want to live for free at the expense of others but things monetary cost.
@@alaska1girls The expense of others? So intellectually lazy.
What expense to you? @@alaska1girls
@@alaska1girlsexactly. That is exactly what is happening, they want to push their own responsibilities on other people.
Unfortunately, USA citizens are not welcome in the united states.... haven't you heard?
Public lands are not in competition with the private sector. Let's not forget the BLM receives tax dollars. Millions and millions of dollars in Arizona alone.
Public land is not a business.
Absolutely!!!!!!!!
Agreed. According to the BLM website, "The 2024 BLM budget for current appropriations is $1.7 billion, including $1.5 billion for the Management of Lands and Resources appropriation..."
Also according to the BLM website, "Recreation opportunities on BLM-administered lands contribute more than $276.2 million to Arizona's economy." All of these people are acting as though BLM lands are some sort of handout, when in fact, the state and local economies are benefitting from the visitors, even taking into account cleanup, etc.
@AmberwingArt some bureaucrat thinks this would be a government cash cow. What they are failing to disclose is the hundreds of millions of tax dollars going to Arizona BLM to manage the land.
What have they done with two decades in fees and tax money.
Certainly wasn't making the place better.
Public land isn't a business until you turn it into one. "Public land" doesn't come with water and toilets. Those are things business provides. Transactions occur. Items are procured. Business happens. Plans are needed for future development. All so you can do your business.
@@nonya.bizness , they are being managed. And, do you understand what the word profit means? They are clearly operating at a loss and require more expenditures. So not to worry, still not for profit.
This why I built a stealth apartment on a truck instead of buying a camper, the machine will never stop coming at our wallets, staying off their radar is the only way.
I posted a video on this two days ago. I’m in Quartzsite right now. The few that are here right now are not pleased with this proposed increase in price especially since there have been zero improvements or added amenities to the location(s). You never see a ranger. The vault toilets are atrocious. The dumpsters overflow. The “improved” water fill and dump stations were completed two years ago and remain closed because the non potable water coming from the well dug cannot fulfill the pressure requirements.
Build Back Better!
Yeah, that's the whole point of raising the prices! Did you not watch the video? They're saying that they are underfunded and understaffed, so they need more money. Nobody ever expected these BLM lands to turn into homeless encampments so they didn't budget for this ridiculous amount of RVers. Too many Quartzite people are anti-goverment and don't want to pay taxes ( especially property taxes), and yet they expect the government to give them a free place to live with spotless bathrooms and a state of the art water filtration system. It's ridiculous because the American taxpayer that's going to their job for 40 or more hours a week are the ones who fund the BLM so that campers can live for free.
The vault toilets are atrocious and you rarely see a Ranger- CLEARY some huge signs that current funding is not covering actual use demands.😂😂😂 but go aheads and keep complaining while you're unwilling to pay for proper funding. Reduce the number of people or increase funding to cover expenses. Its not the BLM's problem people are poor.
So your saying they need money for more improvements.
@@bnewland1958 that's what they're saying. As well as salaries for personnel. I guess the govt doesn't pay their employees anymore. It's based on proceeds from sales.
The majority of people seem to only stay November through March and won't get full value for the permits. Yes, it's still cheaper than a camp ground, but 300% is a huge increase.
333%!
A simple solution is to share the cost with another RVer. As you leave, the arriving RV uses your pass.
No one sane increases the price by 300% and expects sales to remain exactly the same. I camped at LaPosa South the last two winters - all of 2022 and part of 2023 and will be there this winter. In all the time I was there I saw one ranger - ONE - who drove through without stopping. As for Law Enforcement, the only LEO I ever saw was from the Quartzsite PD when an elderly lady was dropped off by her caregiver. At one point, witnessing an altercation that appeared to have the potential to become violent, I attempted to contact BLM law enforcement. I called the site office and the volunteer said they don't have any way to contact the BLM law enforcement and told me I had to call the Yuma Field Office. The Yuma Field Office had no idea how to contact BLM law enforcement and kept me on hold for 10 minutes trying to find out. Turns out he was unavailable. No reason given. So the $90,000+ - $100,000+ salaries for "law enforcement" are pretty much a joke. Volunteers do all the work. I've ever seen, or talked to anyone who has seen, paid BLM employees at the LTVAs.
Yes, the BLM pays for trash pickup and water service, and the dump stations. And yes, they are building a new dump megaplex at one of the other LaPosa areas, but to expect people, many of whom are seniors on limited incomes, or people who live in their vehicles because of medical or psychological issues that prevent them from living "normal" lives, to swallow a 300% price increase is absurd. I hope that it is in fact a "shock tactic" to get people to easily accept an increase to $300 or so. However, I have a sad suspicion that is not the case and they actually believe they will get rid of the "riff raff" who have limited means and thus encourage only the more well-heeled travelers to stay in the LTVAs.
I personally suspect that if the increase does go through not only will it substantially reduce the number of people staying in the LTVAs but it will increase the number of people ignoring the 14 day stay limit in the surrounding BLM camping areas. From what I've seen, many people in those areas simply ignore the stay limit and it is rarely enforced. I may be wrong, but that's what I anticipate would happen. So instead of cashing in on a 300% increase in revenue they will have additional expense to enforce the stay limit for the surrounding areas and additional costs for environmental remediation from increased usage, and from people leaving trash at their camps rather than drive to the nearest public landfill to drop off their trash.
I've already commented to the BLM and wrote to my Congressional Representative asking that he intervene to suggest an increase in the BLM budget (I suggested switching the budget from the Air Force because purchasing one less B21 bomber would pay for the desired increase in the Yuma Field Office LTVA budget for more than 2 years)
If this goes through, it will DEFINITELY mean people ignoring 14 day limits. They're going to go somewhere. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments.
😮😮😮
Well, written and very much true. I feel the same way that the people that can’t afford this now will go park out in the desert further and may not go by the rules, therefore leaving trash, dumping waste and destroying the land we’re trying to protect so any money that they do make will have to be spent on cleaning up areas they’ve never had to clean up before.
Also they are no way ever going to get 100% of these numbers with any kind of increase at all alone a 300% increase there’s no way in hell that they will ever get the same numbers so thinking they’re going to make $3 million as a total pile of BS That they won’t be able to clean up.
I have paid for many passes at $180 because they can’t afford it now to think that they can charge even $200 would be pushing it for some of these people.
I propose absolutely a $200 this year and maybe as high as $300 next year a little bit at a time people can plan for there’s nobody going to be able to plan for $600😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
All great points. I can see you care for the less fortunate. Bless you Deb.
It is a significant increase, and will hurt some people, but it is still FAR more affordable than other options.
I've never stayed there and never will, but even at $600, these people should be thankful they have this option. It doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.
@@alaska-bornfloridaman It's free at national and state forest and parks with a 14 day limit then moving 25 miles each time. That huge increase in populations will make dispersal more difficult and cause infinitely more trash for rangers to pick up. $95Billion for Ukrainians, Israelis and Taiwanese but FK US tax payers over on land they already pay for in taxes is doing it wrong and must change.
Go vote for Kamala for more of your kind of bullying the poor.
Same thing happening in New Mexico. Huge rate increase for a seasonal pass. We were told by a fish and game agent that they were trying to discourage people from camping through the winter here. He actually told us, “we don’t want them here.”
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”
I sometimes stay in Arizona LTVAs overnight when passing through. It's a nice community, and compared to the car camp/boondock I usually do, it's nice to have some people around who aren't going to bother me (you never know how curious desert rats get when a new vehicle that appears unoccupied shows up). Market survey needs to include the free options, not just the paid options.
US citizens who've been paying taxes in the USA all their lives should continue to pay $180 for the winter, Canadiens and other nationals who come here as snowbirds should pay more sorry
I paid the 7 month fee for the LTVA but stayed in 1 place in the desert . My garbage was disposed of at Laposa North or at the town dump and I recycled everything I could. I picked up other peoples recyclables on my daily walk and dispised of them properly. I didnt use their water because it was so bad. I shopped locally most of the time. But after they resurfaced the roads the garbage became a real problem in both Laposa North and South. I will save my money and just move every 14 days. I will dispose of my garbage properly in Quartzsite and Bouse since for now it is free. When the lazy idiots who leave their garbage on the desert ruin it for the rezt of us I will make other plans
The free areas will be next
This will be the worst thing that ever happens to our free public lands.
😢 people that can’t afford the $400,$500,$600 for the winter and specially at one time Fee, instead of month a month… will go live out in the desert and dump their trash and pull their waist black tank valve and destroy what we’re trying to protect😮😢😢😢
And i will call the cops on them and they will go to jail and lose everything they own because they can't keep a clean camp
Then they will move to a town park near you, or on a side street near you and do the same thing, like in the movie "Christmas Vacation" where the brother empties his black
water tank in the street drain!
@@walkingfish7123
@@walkingfish7123 they wont be going to jail- nothing will happen and if they are illegals they may even get another 3000 bucks free
*waste
No, they won't.
You might, but most people are good
'I'm sure they're getting it...' And I'm sure they're ignoring it. We've attended several of these while living in Colorado. In every case, the public input was overwhelming against the government proposal. And in every case, the proposal was implemented anyway. It is all a smokescreen to suggest they listen to us. In other words, it is all a lie. They will do whatever they want to do regardless of what the citizens want. As usual, they ignore the 'public servant' idea.
I empathise and know the government often doesn't listen. That said, I wouldn't want to discourange feedback - because sometimes they do listen. Sometimes the force of the flood of feedback forces them to. Just look at what just happened in Florida state parks.
@@RVMiles, we didn't stop them, though. DeSantis is only pausing the project for a few months to "revisit later." (when Floridians forget about it) While Floridians are cheering their victory, DeSantis will implement it behind our backs, just as planned all along. Without more whistleblowers, this won't stop, and it definitely won't stop unless people stop it with more finality than simply self-congratulation. People should be fighting like their lives depend upon it (and it does,) but they aren't, not even close. Look at what is going on in Springfield, OH right now.
Welcome to California style communism.. 'Kings and Queens' laugh at you.
@@deborahhopkinson5243"fighting" rhetoric should be removed. What is going on in Ohio...are they eating cats and dogs?
Yep. Smokescreen.
I am rving full time in my class B van. I have been on the road full time for over a year. I spent much of the winter in a COE campground that was charging $6/night but increased to $8/night. (Water and electric are turned off for the winter, so no bathrooms or showers) Since then I have been boondocking which I enjoy more as it is free, and I will continue to do that as often as I can. It is funny that the corp raised their rates 33% to keep up with inflation yet social security tells us inflation was only 3%.
Government isn't supposed to be a profit-making organization. But basing LTVA cost on market research of for-profit enterprises turns it into one. Because of inflation, they must raise the fee; that makes sense. But the new amount should be based on real & predicted costs of maintaining the area.
Best comment yet.
Exactly right. They are turning it into a for-profit business, using land and resources WE taxpayers have already paid for. Try that with any other business- imagine becoming a partner owning a store and buying into it. Then you keep investing more money each year. Then if you want something from the store, you have to buy it at full price- but never receive anything back for the investment. Seems like pretty poor business, but that is what is happening here. We pay for the land, we pay the rangers, then we have to pay again to use it.
Make the fees reasonable, enough to cover actual expenses, and it would be fine. But increasing fees beyond inflation rates without increasing amenities will only push people away, to other places that are either free, lower cost, or where you get more for your dollar.
Well-said!
I suggest that Jason Epperson (Mr. RV Miles himself) be supported to become the "friend of the court" representative of his 100,000+ subscribers, representing all of us as a group. The BLM should provide him all the time and consideration deserving what the sum total of tens of thousands together deserve. His presentation would include summarized input from his subscribers along with representative stories from some real campers representing the different types of RVers. The presentation would also benefit from legal input and input from one or more industry experts. If we all, as we can, chip in a little to support this, we could push this proposal back to a rational level. (Now, Jason has a life already and puts a great amount of time into the treasure that is RV Miles, so we may need another resource, but certainly his input will be most valuable.)
As long as you subscribe and patreon. Wait was that sticks and bricks I see in the background on so many videos, hmm.
300+% increase will cause me to avoid Quartzsite / Yuma LTVA. Free boondocking - here I come (again).
I knew it . Thank you for this update video Jason.
You bet
Always deliver fantastic coverage from a neutral POV. Really enjoy.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you Jason for bringing this to our attention. I’ve spent a few weeks, not months, at LTVA La Posa South for many years. I'm on the high end of that spectrum you referenced with a $300k RV. I go there to visit friends, many of whom will not be able to afford the increase. I can afford it, but the Yuma office can stick that plan where the sun don’t shine. ( For you English teachers …. Yes I know the grammatical error in that idiomatic expression.)
USBLS CPI calculator says $180 in Jan 2008 would be $268 in July 2024. A $300 LTVA seasonal fee would be reasonable, based on CPI alone, and to cover the operational deficit. Congress cut the BLM appropriation by 6% from 2023 to 2024. So the LTVA is operating at a loss, and appropriations are decreasing. Who’s to pay? The $600/7-month rate is about $20/week. Is that unreasonable when you get unlimited trash and dump services? We witnessed lots of trash from the free areas coming into the LTVA as one camper in an organized group purchased the LTVA permit. This abuse must stop.
Damn Ukraine and Iran. And damn Saudi using AZ water. Damn the jobs going overseas and damn 10-20 million coming over the border..make them pay
Yep! It will take more staff to stop the abuse and that itself costs money.
@@jasonjames4254 yes but most of these staff are volunteers, at no cost to the BLM.
@@kar-r5i4f You get what you pay for! I pay almost $40 a month just for trash pickup alone at my house. The only real debate here is who should be paying for the LTVAs - residents or taxpayers? I say RESIDENTS! I guess I would not be opposed to a reduced/subsidized rate for anyone near the poverty level. But if you do that, you also need another expensive layer of bureaucracy to process/verify those low-income applications.
A lot of free boondocking doesn’t include any amenities, no pit toilets, no dump stations etc. $600 for up to 7 months is pretty cheap, it’s $85 a month or about $2.80 a day for limited services that aren’t available on free BLM land. Even if there wasn’t a 14 day limit folks would have to leave to find water and a dump station or pay for a mobile service. A forest service campground with pit toilets and no dump station is usually $8 a day if you have the lifetime interagency senior pass so $2.80 a day is a good deal with nearby water and dump stations in addition to a higher level of law enforcement presence. If someone is coming from the north to live in the south for the winter and can’t afford $85 a month then they have major financial issues. At 10 miles a gallon that 1,400 mile trip is going to involve 140 gallons of gas at $4 a gallon or $560 just to get there and another $560 to get home, plus food, propane etc. The BLM budget looked reasonable and limiting the next increase until the CPI is 20% higher is more than reasonable. Since 2008 it rose about 46%, so if that was constant you’re talking about an increase every 8 years. I’m not saying that there aren’t people on the fringe trying to squeeze every nickel but the majority of the folks can make it work. Maybe the BLM can have a discount for those below a certain income level.
Finally, a voice of reason in this comment section.
Great analysis, great comment. Fees should be high enough to cover all costs. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing LTVAs. Increased fees should improve infrastructure and maybe even provide better security. And yes, maybe a reduced fee schedule or rebate program for those near the poverty level. Anything that keeps poverty level individuals from becoming homeless is probably worth it even if means higher fees for those who have the ability to pay.
They just sent 100 Billion to a country 3 years ago you didn't know existed.
I 💯 agree. You can’t stay anywhere for $85 a month. I would gladly pay the increase. I think it’s reasonable and fair.
In a similar vein, the recent increase in pricing for the Yuma and Imperial Dam Long-Term Visitor Areas (LTVAs) has raised concerns among visitors and local businesses. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has proposed raising fees for long-term permits from $180 to $600 and short-term permits from $40 to $20012. This significant hike in fees could deter many visitors, particularly those who rely on affordable long-term camping options.
The Yuma and Imperial Dam LTVAs are popular destinations for snowbirds and long-term campers who contribute to the local economy by spending money on goods and services in the surrounding areas. A substantial increase in fees could lead to a decline in the number of visitors, resulting in a loss of tourism revenue for local businesses. Some estimates suggest that the area could lose at least 50 percent of its tourism and revenue due to the fee increase.
In summary, while the proposals in both Florida and the Yuma/Imperial Dam LTVAs aim to generate additional revenue, they risk driving away tourists and reducing the economic benefits these areas currently provide.
Exactly. It won't take much of an impact to see a business or two go under, then a few more. The RV show would leave. Quartzsite would die.
@@peaksandpieces yep, another future ghost town.
Empty land is easier to manage. I suspect this is their ultimate goal.
_"The Yuma and Imperial Dam LTVAs are popular destinations for snowbirds and long-term campers who contribute to the local economy by spending money on goods and services in the surrounding areas."_
True, but very low income people using the LTVAs in the winter months because they're homeless (houseless ?) aren't spending a lot in the local economy no matter where they stay. They might even be consuming local tax-funded services. All this being said, a $300 fee for the winter seems reasonable and I suspect would be tolerated by snowbirds and other long-term campers of at least middle income.
@@DavidHuffTexas you assume the lower income folks don't buy groceries, repairs on their rv, gas? That being said, I fall into the mid to upper income folks and don't mind paying $300, that in my mind, is still a good value. Anything more than that, I'm investing those funds into more power storage and boondocking for free. It irks me that I have to pay anything at all for these "public" lands that I ALREADY pay for with my taxes...and trust me, I pay A LOT of taxes!
A lot of these people can't afford this kind of increase.
That sounds like they need to get a job instead of goofing off out in the desert
@@CharlesAnsmanwhat an ignorant comment. Most of the people using LTVA’s are elderly and on a very fixed income, barely able to afford groceries and medications.
@@Vantasticviews2 Agreed. Well said.
This is the land we pay taxes for. Blm is a goverment agency tasked to maintain the land. Not rent it out. Infact we shouldnt have to pay for it unless it becomes a burden to clean it and we gotta pay for more blm staff to service the area.
There’s still miles of free BLM camping all around that area. But they’ll need to move every 2 weeks and drive to dump tanks etc.
The businesses in the area will suffer, cause people that were using these areas to live there will no longer be buying groceries, using laundromats, etc. because they will find other places to live. Sad situation.
Not to worry, these people don't have any money so local businesses should be done. Might even cut down on shoplifting.
@@chrisfoxwell4128 that’s totally incorrect.
If this increase does go through, it will really hurt the town of Quartzsite.
@@timaz1066 , this entire spiel is about how these poor people have no money. If that is presumed true, then how do they economically feed a tpwn?
@chrisfoxwell4128 they don't have the money for expensive rv parks.. and no matter where they live... they still gotta buy groceries and other goods.
This was the most accurate, informative, and neutral reporting I have watched in a long time. Well done and thanks for the heads up!
A 333% increase for a long term permit ??? Are they out of their minds ????
Less than $3 per day. Please tell me where else in America you can live for less than $3 per day? It takes money to run these places and with everyone quitting their job to become full time RVers, where else are the federal tax dollars going to come from to fund the BLM? You people live in fantasy land where you think some magic ferry just pays all the bills and pays for all of the services.
How else are they going to pay off the 35 Trllion dollar debt??
@@ripvanrevsAs if that’s where this money would go. 😂
Not out of their minds. Just government running things.
Well said! If they raise the rates that much, I will stay in the free areas and use the services in Quartzsite.
Boo... 👎
@@mariannereno-db4db Is that boo for me or BLM?
I’ve visited Quartzite area and I didn’t stay at LTVA’s. I stayed on one of the many gravel BLM free camping areas. There’s miles and miles of free camping all around Quartzite. You must relocate every 2 weeks but that’s ok.
I have to move anyway every two weeks for dumping.
Don’t you suppose that this is the beginning of the end for those free spots too? Whether or not they get this money, they’ll always look for ways to get more. I believe if they get away with this that it won’t be all that many years before free camping on ANY BLM land is gone. They’ll always want more Rangers and pick ups for them to drive and secretaries to do their paperwork and office buildings for these people to work in.
@@kellycromwell4982 yep that’s possible. Sounds like the plan is to lower the population and move all the survivors into smart cities tightly controlling their movements.
@@kellycromwell4982 yep that’s possible. Seems like some higher ups don’t want people living free in RVs or vehicles
Data check - The 2024 estimated annual visitors to the area of 80,000+ fits data from 2018/2019 prepandemic usage trendline. 2020 and 2021 levels were a huge spike. We all know the camping craze was not permanent lifestyle change for many.
Rental rates... Some zoned areas are more desirable, or would be if well serviced. Those using the area should pay more. Established campsite all set up for months at a time versus having to move every 2 weeks seems like a huge benefit. $600 for around 6 months of basic lot rental is CHEAP even if off grid boondocking. Unfortunately short term visitors would be basically locked out of those areas by the long term users. The 14 day sites and more expensive overnight camps would still get used at their respective 'rental ' rates.
Overall the BLM must balance services they provide within budget. This is setting up a 3 tiered campsite management program that includes long term seasonal offgrid sites.
Thank you for the FYI.
My issue is that those of us who only want to stay 1 night are not allowed to unless we buy a 14 day permit. That’s ridiculous! We’ve been turned away from several spots and told to go across the road where it is free.
This is a ridiculous plan. It will fail miserably.
Which means the Gov't is sure to do it and claim it a success.
Remember when Obama tried to destroy the RV industry?
Wow, that increase is way too high. I've stayed at some of the LTVA's but not for the entire summer. I am wondering if there is pressure from the RV parks in the southwest as they compete with the LTVA's for customers? I agree that there should be an increase in fees, so they can manage these area's better, but the fees they are proposing are way too high, and will make the 14 day , area's overcrowded. Thanks so much for the information!
I'm all for realistic user fees (as opposed to taxes that have nothing to do with use), but it appears that their "market research" is apples to oranges comparisons at best and not rooted in actual grounded analysis.
No repairs have been done to the old systems at the LTVA in Quartzsite, AZ for years and the new ones that have been built are still not working so what are you getting for your money. The only vault toilet that I have seen that was maintained was near the camp host the others you would not dare to go in after a few days due to no maintenance, so whoever they paying for maintenance is not doing their job right now. Campsites with higher fees have clean restrooms, power, water, showers, and sometimes even a pool and restaurant are they going to make all these improvements for the $600 I am betting the answer is no. We have plenty of money for wars and bridges to nowhere but helping poor Americans is last on the list. If they go to $600 I'll stay in the BLM 14-day areas, it's better to go into town for water and not the LTVA.
The only way that they are helping themselves through the poor is taxing them more and raising prices on everything.
The contractor for that new LaPosa service area did not drill deep enough for the water supply for the brand new dump stations and water fills and now is locked in a legal battle with the Yuma BLM field station. Those dump stations ma sit unused for years because neither the contractor nor government are considering how badly they look to hundreds of thousands of annual big tent show visitors who pay high taxes for the same area they have to pay twice for.
Why wasn’t the Yuma field office telling,standing over contractors to dig at proper depths,or did the contractor dig at the depth they were told to dig and then when it didn’t work,they told contractor you didn’t dig deep enough???
@@johnsmith1424 I've worked for the federal government in California from both sides--- federal contractor and federal civil service worker and can guess what happened. BLM assigns a hydrologist contractor to drill pilot holes for water. He drills 200 feet and hits water but cuts corners and does not test the water for safe for human consumption.
BLM hires a water well drilling company and hands over the hydrologist's results.
The well contractor does find water at 200 feet, but determines that it is an aquifer of seepage from the BLM's open septic system a couple hundred yards away.
The well contractor tells Yuma Office they did it wrong, the BLM replies back that the well driller was to find potable water, the contractor says "nah ah" and BLM sues.
@@dustup2249 that sounds like that could happen,I was just putting out there a couple options probing to see if anyone new Exactly what went wrong,because you and I both no when GOV touches something it turns to something other than potable water,I was a general contractor for 30 years so I to have seen my fare share of,not my fault!!!
Don’t fail to mention they also have access to law-enforcement, medical, emergency support, and fire danger support
all of which come from the the local municipalities not from the BLM
And all of which would be used at whatever location the people would need them...Quartzsite or Lake Mead or wherever. Tourists pay taxes too.
But those costs aren’t figured into this.
@@MaryWehmeier actually they included in this fee increase proposal.
@@debvozall of which comes from government. Whether neighborhood local, city, county, state, federal, it's all one great ecosystem that created the greatest country on the planet!
Please tell me how parking your van on an environmentally devastated piece of gravel comprised of metal shards and rubble at the toxic tail end of the Colorado, jampacked among rv's with their unenclosed generators blasting away is worth such an increase. If they hired a security guard to keep the locals from using the dumpsters there wouldn't be mountains of trash like there were last year.
Great points
Walking into a fierce wind here...I was there in January and witnessed the piles of trash, very long dump station lines, water hogs holding up another very long line of RV'ers and many, many inconsiderate small-time RUclipsr's begging for funding. Untold numbers of healthy young people that could work for a living but asking for handouts camping in their own trash and most with a dog running free. A mass of drug abuse and 'old bus hippies' relieving themselves on the ground and in buckets. That said, if the BLM actually used the new increase to improve water, dump stations, pit toilets and trash facilities, I am all for it. Not to say it is all bad, the bad was outnumbered by far with clean sites and well setup campsites by responsible RV'ers. I know many wonderful Nomads that take care of their own, ask for nothing and usually share what they have...but Quartzsite is loaded with the other side of the fence, people abusing the system.
Jason, thanks for the video on this subject! For the last 4 years or so we have been camping at La Posa South or Imperial Dam, occasionally the 14 day free areas when passing thru. Not full time so a few weeks here or there during the season. Been there Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb this past season & I must say the number of sales for both Imperial & La Posa reported on the Bus Plan seem suspect. I reviewed the charts in the plan & they seem under reported. I’ve been an accountant my whole life & if this was a company P&L I would find it interesting to say the least. Seeing as I’ve been there during the high season & know they take in a lot of cash, something seems off with these numbers. I’m wondering, since this is public lands, public info, if there is a way to see actual financial statements for the BLM field office? I just don’t believe they only sold 9,000 permits between the 4 La Posa locations & Imperial Dam.
That’s crazy. Just stay at one of the 5 areas that are free and go dump your tanks at the pit stop. Dome rock and scadden wash are close to town.
I stayed at one of the CA sites last year with no water, sewage or pit toilets, only trash. I didn't think the $180 was worth it for just the one service and not having to move every 2 weeks, especially since the trash services are free to everyone. There is no way I am going to pay even 1 penny more unless the other services are added. I did try the Imperial Dam site, but I have two dogs that look scary when they start barking at people and there were too many people for them. I was afraid there would be complaints and I would be kicked out. Quartzite and Imerial Dam are out even though I have been working with my dogs to improve this (it is a work in progress). So no, I will not be using one of the LTVA sites this year. I am going to stay up farther north where it is colder (I prefer the cold) and there are less people. I figure the cost of propane will be offset by the cost of gas and the BLM fee. If they do raise the prices that much there is no way I will ever use one of those sites again.
Just to put it in perspective, my local garbage hauler charges me almost $40 a month.
Congratulations on your channel expansion. Best wishes for continued growth. 👍
Thank you so much 🙂
I only ever pay the $40/2 weeks just to stay with friends who are staying there for the winter. Personally, I think even that is outrageous for the limited services I participate in when staying there. I actually prefer free boondocking areas when in the area, but I'm rather tired of the same old same old, so I'll be exploring other areas this year. BLM needs a better marketing group if it's going to do "surveys."
Your entire rebuttal should be sent in by each viewer as you make the best case against this ridiculous increase.
LTV’s provide a place to live for folks of limited means. This massive price increase almost seems like a tactic to keep people away.
Income discrimination.
It could appear so yet as he mentioned in the video it also looks like the blm wants to not decrease attendance because they want and need the added revenue.
Perhaps a case of wanting their cake and eating it to!
This is crazy. I do agree there needs to be an increase. Prices on anything else has stayed the same since 2008. But increases need to be done gradually. I hope they come up with something else.
I took the opportunity to submit a comment on the proposal. There is a lot more going on than just the LTV, most of it much needed like new campgrounds and reasonable price increases. While $600 for 7 months is still a bargain, how many actually stay the full 7 months. A large number come in just after Christmas and leave by the end of March. When you look at spending $600 for 3 months, the numbers are starting to look far different.
My fear is that this will drive many campers to other areas, some not currently used or areas that see little use and this will just lead to more land degraded. Many of the campers are seniors. Most are doing OK but still, increasing more than 3 fold is not in the budget. In my comments to the BLM, I suggested stepped increases over a 5 year period to prevent the wholesale movement to other lands and still get the BLM to where it needs to be.
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Budget concious campers will seek out the CHEAP AND ISOLATED SPOTS and will continue to shun the more costly govt sponsored sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am staying max 5 months because of the weather!
These "seniors" that you speak of are still not going to be able to live somewhere else for less than $3 per day, which is what this increase amounts to. And if they are on a fixed income then they'll stay a full 7 months instead of 3 months. And if campers do start overcrowding other areas, then those prices will increase as well. Right now we have too many homeless people who we're referring to as "RVers", meanwhile these government and state run campgrounds are degrading and making the good RVers leave the lifestyle.
@@Ceerix LIE-berals and their Woke allies and greedy civil service unions simply froth at the mouth in rage - every time they think of the general public having cheap or FREE FUN - with govt NOT GETTING A FEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@scottmichaels12 Go ahead and CRY union baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The general public will GO AROUND YOU to places THEY CAN AFFORD - and they will CUT YOU OUT of the loop!!!!!!!!!!
I have stayed at the LTVAs in Quartzsite & yuma several years, off & on, 2016 - 2024 to date. The current fee is low, but not for the amenities. The amenities are junk. Not kept and mismanaged. I also volunteered one season, never again. Treated as a low end employee while working 8-10 hours with extremely limited or no breaks on the two days you work, especially Jan-Feb. The stipend is currently a season pass, and $100 per month with a minimum employment period of 90 days, or zero stipend. All of the volunteers combind make less than ONE GS9 gov employee. So the Blm is not loosing money on employees in fact that are making a killing using people to do the work of paid employees. I agree that a higher fee MAY help with the disrepair of the amenities, however not gouging the elderly, and disabled guests, witch are the majority that visit these places. If guests go back to the 14 day places it will only add to any problems that already exsist, and could cause closures for those areas. The GOV has a huge solar farm approved to be built this year, in Blyth CA, 20 miles away, could this have anything to do with this? I think it does.
I was in the movie Nomad land and all nomads must become aware of how to deal with LEO's when the officer starts grilling you about if you live in your vehicle.
I have experienced in az on 3 occasions where the ranger would try to trick us into saying we were fulltimers so they could ban us from all public lands for all time by reporting us as 'residential campers'.
You must say NO and thatt you are simply vacationing, recreating on the land. You're an avid photographer there to photograph the stunning night skies...etc etc.
I was a Nomad for over a decade and I feel
RUclipsr Nomads hungry for continual content are the most detrimental thing that has happened to Quartzsite and other public lands.
With the closures of public land over time it has become a challenging lifestyle to sustain compared to before youtube became popular.
Just devastating to the entire nomadic community.
Not off topic for full timers. Interesting perspective.
Agree
@@untetherednomad6393nitwit
Imperial Dam area was a perfect place to stay during covid. That area has nice facilities and easy access to Yuma. Maybe if they just double the $180 fee it wouldn’t be such a huge increase. It is a great place to stay warm in the winter.
As you said in your video, the price increase will cause RVers to move about more on BLM causing more land use issues. There isn't enough BLM rangers to enforce overstays as it is. From some of the comments below is seems the LTVA isn't that great of a place. I don't agree with that huge of an increase for such little amenities
Imperial Damm has at least 4 lines for dumping and freshwater and waste “for free”!
There are other LTVA where you have to go dump somewhere else and to pay extra money.
I posted a video on this and I called BLM about it to confirm the text/email sent to previous permit purchasers was not a scam.
Stayed there the winter last year, it's nothing but an overgrown RV park now... People on top of people, no where to go to get any privacy.
That's because you live in a van that does not have a 10 gallon waste tank, so like all those other van life RTRs you have to crowd around the limited pit toilets by BLM regulation or risk an uppity RV Karen snitching on you for being too far away from the flock.
Pro tip: Go back to Babylon and get a job until you can afford an RV so you can disperse camp.
ok go to downtown LA then
Van lifers always cry about close neighbors at the LTVAs because they are mandated to camp within 500 feet of a vault toilet if their conveyance does not have a permanent waste tank 10 gallons or larger.
Buy a class C. There are thousands for sale and some are nearly free because people that leave the lifestyle for whatever reason cannot park them on the street or in the open on their property in most municipalities without having them towed and crushed.
They will prohibit camping on public lands, our lands- not today....but that's the mindset of our government. - for our safety.
They built a new station. For water and dump site. BUT THEY DIDNT DRILL FAR ENOUGH AND THERE IS NO WATER! So we are Still waiting in line for 2 dump stations, and rotten water. Just because they screwed up on the dump station, WHY ARE WE BEING CHARGED FOR THEIR MISTAKES!!! 20% increase is ok but a 300% is Ridiculous!!! I can go to an rv site for less then that! They are a government agency! Not a business! Get your money from the tax payers budget!
Government can be pretty lame.
With the $600 price, that's $2.86 a day... please give us a list of RV sites that are cheaper than that.
Why should taxpayers cover the cost of these campers? The costs of facilities and personnel should be covered by permit fees.
@@C0braChicken2that math only works if you stay the ENTIRE season. Many do not.
Why should I pay for you to camp????? Stand on your own two feet!
Thanks for the video. You make things more clear. I have gong to Quartzsite for meet ups and to see the big tent and RV show. I have stayed on the free BLM for 14 days and I have stated at the LTVA but not more than another 14 days. The prices they are proposing are ridiculously high. If the $200 a month goes through I wont be staying at the LTVA, I will just move to another BLM area for free.
Good video. Thanks for making it 👍
Thanks for watching!
Honestly, we just went for the fun. Have some really good friends there that we will miss because they are saying that they won’t be able to afford the massive increase. We have Spent a lot of money 💴 in Quartzite and Lake Havasu. I’m sad to see the impact of the small businesses who barely got through the pandemic and now this!?!?
Honestly, I am on limited funds, and $300.00 is not out of sorts, and I would pay that. $600.00 is just too much!
Where is it cheaper than 600 bucks for 7 months?
To boondock? All over the place. Tons of free boondocking.
@@RippSnortin right, and with water and trash, and sewer dump and lots of space to choose, spread out. $3 a day is a bargain. So why not "let the market decide" for those that want to run it like a for-profit business, they should be all in for this increase.
@RVMiles that's a choice. But then you'll be spending gas running to town for water, trash and dumping the poo. Or just leave the trash and dump the poo in a wash.
In the last four years, I have probably spent altogether nine months in the quartzite area. I always register because I always want uncle Sam to know and understand that we appreciate using our own land. LTVA at $180 a year is attractive when you consider that you get, the amenities, including a place to dump your garbage. Which means normally there is not that much garbage around as an eyesore. I have stayed mostly in areas outside of the LTV because I like being at quite a distance from my closest neighbor. The areas close to the amenities are very very crowded. To me those areas look like refugee camps.
Nice analysis Jason. Not familiar with LTVA's but this sounds like another example of people who don't use and/or understand the services offered making decisions for those who do!!
The Yuma Field Office of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) manages 1.2 million acres of land in southwestern Arizona and southeastern California. This area includes 155 miles of the lower Colorado River. The wages stated are for ALL of these lands. Very misleading. You don't see these employees much during the season at the LTVA. Plus where is the income from the campgrounds? Why is that not included?
A proposal for $600 for a LTVA permit at the LaPosa and Imperial Dam LTVAs for September 15th through April 15th starting in2025 with trash service, pit toilets and dump stations is crazy. I have heard that we need more rangers hired at the LTVAs but wow! You know there are campgrounds in and around Quartzite that offer electric only sites and full hookup sites with flush toilets, showers and sometimes mini rec rooms for reading and games for that amount of money maybe a little more over the same 7 month period. I was thinking about going this year as a bucket list trip and to see the big tent show, and the rock and gem show and the RTR and because I hate Ohio winters ,and I probably still go this October until April , but if I go back to Quartzite in 2025 and beyond I might stay at a campground in town and get more amenities if staying at the LTVAs for 7 months is going to cost so much. God I hope they don’t price gouge. I can see raising the $180 7 month permit to $280 or even $300 but $600 to boondock camp on dirt/gravel for 7 months. Nope!
Woke LIE-berals and their civil service union allies think the world belongs to them and that they are ENTITLED to rent it out to the rest of us for THEIR PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!
The unions are just as happy if you stay home and suffer as it makes less work for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$600 for 7 months of living comes to about $3 a day. Where else in America can you live for $3/day? I think they need to raise the prices even more to weed out the riff raff.
@scottmichaels12 So, wow. You get to decide who is riffraff and who isn't based on income? Charging to stay on land we the people own is ludicrous when you consider the billions that we give away to other countries.
@@Rvfootprints It isn't "staying" on public land when you don't move for months on end...that's called squatting and you're depriving the rest of us the use of that public land. There will still be plenty of free areas with 14 day stay limits and zero services. Do you complain about highway tolls? Car registration/license fees to be able to drive on public roadways?
@@Rvfootprints Quit with the "we the people" shat OK? Some of us "people" think this is more than fair.
I think the people who use the LTVA areas will start using the BLM 14 day free areas and use the PIT STOP for their dump/fill location. which in turn might crowd the 14 day BLM areas and create more traffic when i want to dump/fill at PIT STOP. No problem for me, I'm patient and tolerant of others who, like me, need FREE as much as possible.
Thank you for clarification on this topic. Great job!
Which will result in those areas no longer being free, which is probably the long term goal.
When I heard the news, I was SHOCKED. But - doing the math, $600 for 7 months is still less than $3 per day. And - the BLM really needs the money for infrastructure and ENFORCEMENT. Not to mention picking up all the trash and tires some idiots leave behind. THANKS Jason.
Actually they don't. You are blindly trusting the government. They get millions of federal money. They need to better manage the money that they already get!!
Maybe if BLM actually did any enforcement it would be more reasonable, but they are paying those $90+ to $100+ thousand per year law enforcement salaries when the average salary for federal law enforcement is less than $71,000 per year and you never see a BLM LEO.
As for "doing the math" Jason raised a very good point when he said that it is pointless to compare long term camping costs to single night camping costs because no one would pay the "single night" fee every night for 7 months - it is not economically feasible for anyone without a high 7 figure income to even consider.
No they don't need it, they already receive millions from the taxpayers. This has nothing to do with infrastructure or enforcement, it's about making it prohibitively expensive for all but the rich to live in RV's and travel freely in the country's wide-open natural lands. Agenda 2030.
@@debvozhow about the simple approach, don't stay there.
Just tax the rich again and we will be good
Good information … keep reporting !!!
Always!
This will affect the elderly with very low limited income the hardest. The widows who never worked as their husbands were the bread winners. Making $600 - $800 month social security. Basically kicking these people out on the streets not being able to afford driving around to free 14 day BLM locations due to fuel expenses. We should all look out for our ever increasing elderly population. Hopefully the gov’t will take this under advisement and protect these people if the increase does go into effect. God bless them all.
While you are 100% correct, I doubt there will be much sympathy for the elderly. When I am on social media maybe commenting on something, I just get called a “greedy boomer that ruined the country” or a “selfish boomer that craps on young people” or “boomers had it easy”. Much has been promoted to view older Americans in a negative light, many even wishing us gone due to our posting about memories of better times under better leadership. While there are so many elderly living in poverty, it’s assumed we all had great jobs, bought a house while making minimum wage and must have wasted all our money on expensive vacations. It’s sad.
@@katydid2877 very sad. Same people pointing fingers who would never go for laws like right to die/euthanasia. They want us all to go away but that’s easier said than done. The population of the elderly will continue to grow and people and governments won’t be able to hide their heads in the sand indefinitely. And Karma is a real bitch.
I think it would be reasonable to have a reduced fee schedule for those who are living on less than 200% of the federal poverty level.
@@jasonjames4254 and a sliding fee schedule for those below the 200%. At least something to help the elderly out instead of just disregarding their circumstances.
Thank you Jason for telling of this news and information as always.
No one will stay and pay this kind of increase! Quartzsite has a big RV show which is the only time it gets REAL busy. A lot of Canadians come down and use the LTVA camping areas. Our Canadians friends will NOT pay this. This will be a loss of revenue for local businesses too. Biggest question is what does staff do because we have stayed there short term, 14 days and NEVER saw any BLM ranger. You cant even get a hold of BLM office. We had issue and no one could getba hold of anyone!! We will NOT PAY to go here ever again!
What happens at the RV show? Aren't there new RVs for sale that cost tens of thousands of dollars? People who can afford to buy an RV can't afford to use it?
I think your failing to realize that the very reason you never saw a ranger and can't get ahold of the office is because the BLM does not have the budget to pay for staff. That's exactly why the fee increases are needed.
We've all seen what increased law enforcement does.... It makes criminals of small time infractions while the gross offenders go untouched
@@jasonjames4254 No budget for one Ranger.
@@samgibson684 So your solution to gross offenders going untouched is having fewer rangers working with broken equipment to patrol campgrounds with crumbling infrastructure where criminals live? Might as well just privatize the LTVAs then and see what happens to rates and
That’s nuts, especially for the people on SSI , or even less if you can believe it! America isn’t the free country it once was! 😢 16:31
Here in the East, they're making more and more free campsites in the National Forest 15 dollar a night pay sites. Our solution while visiting an area with limited free sites was to park our camper along a lesser used road, or dead end road, that sees little to no traffic, set up a tent the required number of feet from the road, and live in our camper like we normally do. Most dispersed free campsites are feet from the road anyway, often with several cars an hour passing by creating noise or kicking up dust. So other than having to walk 100-300 feet from the road to enjoy our fire in the evening, and having even more peace and privacy, nothing much has changed.
We only visit the LTVA to attend the Quartzite RV Show. Spending $200 for 2-3 nights, is more than I'll pay. Perhaps BLM will offer a 1 week, permit to attend the Quartzite Show, for $50 verses $200 for the month.
The volunteers are treated like crap! I aas one in 2023 & 2024 . I got for like 6 months $930 for their stipend...not even minimal wages
Agree. You should be paid as any US Govt employee would be paid. For these duties. “Volunteer” is a misnomer, and BLM should hire people to the Civil Service as seasonal employees.
Very informative video. Thank you. I think the price increase is completely unreasonable.
So the feds spend around 70 billion in overseas aid, the BLM is saying they cant afford to keep LTVA cost as they are. Might as well go after American Citizens camping in the desert for the winter.
Sounds like a pretty good proposal overall, and particularly if it is a response to financial losses by taxpayers, but it needs to be stepped rather than a lump-sum increase and it needs to be equitable between locations.
The fee increase is a design to reduce the people using the locations.
I hope it works
Same as Disney .
Jason, you is 100% right about everything.
This is to reduce the riff raff that are abusing the lands. I find it a ridiculous amount and probably meant to discourage low income campers.
Income discrimination That's all it is.
When, in reality, most of the riff raff don't actually pay for the permit in the first place.
Fair point, but why don't they step up cracking down on those that are abusing and trashing BLM land(?) Raising prices on rule/law abiding BLM users, will just cause the riff raft to go abuse and trash other areas of the BLM, that aren't subject to the major price increase. Nothing like punishing rule/law abiding BLM users, while letting all the actual abusers off 100% scot free... if this is the logic they're applying, it's beyond frustrating }:(
People of all incomes have a right to use public land. There is a difference between low income and riff raff- many low income people behave well, and Riff raff don't pay for permits now, and still won't; but they will continue to trash places.
You don't seem to understand that we're all the riff raff to those using this as a tool to stop people living freely in RV's, and they will just keep pushing until it's too expensive for all but the .1%
It's a matter of numbers, experience, and Good Manners.
What is truly needed, is a "BLM Pass Card" that can be scanned periodically (and accessed via the internet) to help ensure everyone's in compliance with their remaining number of days on BLM land. The "BLM Pass" could also help keep track of those banned from using BLM land, due to major BLM rules violations.
Just more government oversight and they will increase rates to cover costs and employees. The system works well now, COVID caused a spike that will reduce over the next couple years.
Digital IDs, credit scores, and shaming people on the street, is coming very soon, just give it time!
This price increase will discourage many boondockers. Many can’t afford it and others just do not want to spend that much. I would not trust the safety of the water and I hear the restrooms are horrible. There will be a big loss to the businesses in the community at a time when most businesses are struggling already.
You lost me as soon as you said “pay your fair share”. As a citizen of the United States, I am a public land owner. Why should we have to pay for access to land we own?
You are not paying for access, you are paying for services like trash removal, law enforcement, et.
@@sgriffith2353
You must not be very old. I remember when that was paid for by taxes. Now it is a user fee and permit fee. We are getting less for more money.
@@sgriffith2353 you probably aren’t very old. I remember when that was paid for with taxes. You are paying more for less.
@@Sides1160you must be too young, if you think personal property rights includes public trust lands. Read US history starting in the 1600s which led to the 1800s and unspeakable human rights abuses with indigenous people.
@@jr.6199 you’re an idiot. At no point did I claim personal property rights. I pointed out that the land is owned by we the people, making all of us public land owners. The government has shifted money away from things that it used to pay for, to other things. Making citizens pay usage fees for what used to be free or a minimal cost.
The fees are unconstitutional. These are public lands and no federal agency can charge for you to use public lands nor can they tax you to use the land. Any and all fees or taxes has to be approved specifically through congress and no other way.
The only reason they are doing this, is because sheep people have played into their ploy to charge. Yes, they say we are going to charge you and you willingly gave up your money. Now they are doing it more boldly regardless of the supreme court ruling on the Chevron case.
They are going to get as much money out of you until they are sued, because they will never have to give it back. The courts will just tell them to stop charging you and they will at that time, years down the road. By that time, they'll have billions out of your pockets.
They don't enforce the 14 day limit in the free area's, not enough rangers. They just "respond" when there's a complaint on the free area's. Fee increase is outrageous in one year!
Yup, they're gonna punish the rule/law abding BLM users with a fee increase, while all the rift raft get off scot free and get to go on violating the rules, and trashing the remaining free areas, because they know nobody will do anything.
Stop writing about this.
@@jr.6199 No kidding wtf
Years ago, the land was "Public land" and used freely by everyone. Then it was changed to "State Trust land" so it could be better protected for the future. Next it became "BLM land" SO odd parcels could be auctioned off. Now it has become Private Managed Land and we must pay ever increasing fees to even walk on it. Reminds me of "The King's Land".......just with a different name.
*Did you know that Government workers, police, firemen, and politicians have private camping grounds that are closed to the general population?
I was aware of this and never understood why such types of segregation/s were allowed to happen in the first place, this is truly gov't cronyism at play. Instead of isolating these places from general public use, why couldn't they just have simply given early (yearly) booking preferences to these groups vs isolating other tax payers(?) One thing is for sure, the original reason these lands were set aside, was so they could be used by everyone for the foreseeable future, these lands were not originally set aside to have all kinds of crazy restrictions, rules, and sky high entry fees imposed... the operating capital was (and still is) supposed to come from tax revenues NOT from individual tax payers paying entry fees. It's not the taxpayer's fault that the gov't can't balance the budget and make this work like it was originally intended.
@@__WJK__ Texas took a different approach. They divided up all the State land and sold 99 year leases on them. At least the land was being used and the state got the revenue.
And the next steps will be to restrict use to certain user groups, and gradually restrict more and more groups until the land is off limits to the "public", and is only open to a select few users.
Also, Quartzsite prices are much much higher as well than anywhere else around. The only exception is the gas prices
Makes me think about selling everything and buying a sailboat and just living on the hook.
They SAW YOU COMING....................you have to come to a GOVT OWNED DOCK once in a while to get food and water...............................
Mooring fees, docking fees, and yes even anchoring fees. $600 for 7 months comes to less than $3 per day. I hate to tell you but living on a boat will cost you more than $3/day. Some anchoring fees are $20/day or more. You people need to get it out of your head that you can live for free. Things cost money and the taxpayers fund things like the BLM. If everyone quit their job and lived for free in and RV or on a boat, where would the tax dollars that keep the country running come from? And since you want to live on a boat, who do you think funds the Coast Guard?
@@scottmichaels12 Oh QUIT WHINING about people trying to find bargains!!!!!!!!
Life DOES NOT AND SHOULD NOT be charged for according to the GREEDY DEMANDS OF CIVIL SERVICE UNIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The advantage of a boat is that it CAN CARRY lots of supplies for extended stays AWAY FROM GREEDY GOVT REPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course - as previously mentioned -the boater will GET HIT when supplies run low and a trip to town is required...................but good planning CAN MINIMIZE the price gouging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm literally looking at Trawlers right now...seriously
Lived on my sailboat for 12 years. Trust me, owning an RV is MUCH less expensive.
The land already belongs to the citizens, who gave them the authority to raise prices? More unelected bureaucrats?
Blm is a USA taxes subsidized program which for me means usa citizens should pay less and foreigners need to pay more since they are not paying usa taxes.
This happens to usa citizens when they travel internationally locals pay less we pay more.
Blm rates would benefit to follow the same logic.
BRILLIANT and cogent discussion of an issue that is almost a life and death situation for many people on limited incomes, including seniors and people with disabilities. The BLM has got to go back to the drawing board and get their money from somewhere else. Or be ready to pay for repairing and cleaning the areas surrounding the LTVA’s when they are trashed by people who simply cannot afford this price hike.
Tripling the price and expecting to sell the same number of passes is something only government could come up with. Ask New Jersey what happened when they massively increased tax rates on high income residents (Spoiler alert: They ended up with a DECREASE in revenue, because people don't just shrug and accept it when they have a choice).
They out of their minds! Most people can't afford that insane price increase, including myself!
This increase is way too much
It is always the few who trash the place cause problems and never get held accountable . Then the ones who follow the rules pay the price