I could have remembered something useful or funny or endearing. God-forbid, maybe even something important. Instead, somewhere in my brain, a couple of shitass neurons have no idea that their only purpose has been to maintain a pathway to let me, after over a decade without thinking about it, recall the name of some flash game I played when I was too young to get any of the jokes. Bartender: The Right Mix. Good job lads, keep up the good work.
Loved your work! I would've talked about the music more, but sadly it wasn't really the subject of the video. It was way more professional than I'd expect from a little potion crafting game and It really deserved more than just a shout out. Muktuk's theme was definitely my favorite.
Potion Permit was such a huge disappointment for me. I liked the aesthetics and premise a lot, and the gathering sections were decent. But everything else is so shallow it really makes you wonder why most of the other mechanics were even in the game - they feel like placeholders in an incomplete proof-of-concept.
"Am I meant to play the role of some voyeuristic ghost trying to get people to hook up so I can watch them through a window". Absolute gold and why I keep coming back to this channel.
“I ended up choosing the moth chick because she’s got four arms. And I’m not gonna elaborate on that any further” is a pretty close second as far as gold goes.
The virgin self-inserter: "noooo, this character isn't a non-descript isekai protagonist!" The Chad thespian: "I am a multi-eyed crow-octopus thing of no distinguishing gender and I am to romance the sapient portal into another reality? *That is EXACTLY my fetish.*"
I truly want an alchemy game set in a pre-classical era style, small clans in forested areas. The protagonist would be one of the first alchemists, learning and attempting to understand what does what through trial and error, when the character dies, their child continues their works, slowly building the family encyclopedia.
I got chills from this comment - literally been thinking of something like that for years! If things could be wished into existence, that game would have been out in 2015. Can't believe there's been someone out there with the same thoughts
could be fun but if the recipes are hard coded, learning them once means you can never lose. Make em random to fix that problem, and then it's just a dice roll simulator
"Regardless I ended up choosing the moth chick because she's got 4 arms, and I'm not going to elaborate on that any further." Haven't laughed like this in a while xDD
I quite liked the game and story idk why this guy committed himself so hard to bad opinions. But yeah the only thing I didn’t like was the repetitive nature of resource gathering. I I do wish characters in the kind of genre in general were more in depth
I think one thing that most potion craft games lack is the sense of discovery and mystery. My ideal game would perhaps be something similar to Pathologic, but with a very strong influence from Strange Horticulture, which is just a delightful little indie darling.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention Miasmata (2012). The entire concept of that game is that you're infected with the plague and have to forage for various rare plants and fungi to research and eventually synthesize into a cure. In many ways it's quite similar to Pathologic but with less narrative weirdness and more simulated hiking and cartography
Interesting premise. Unfortunately I took a look at it and it looks dated AF. Quite a few games can age pretty well by leaning into an art style with even some retro games having formed their own aesthetic. 2010 till around 2014 however was a painful era where devs had enough power to play around with but not enough to make something that holds up today.
it's actually so funny to me that a factorio addict started doing game criticism and it's actually really good. keep up the good work. love the jokes that use lodological terminology
Programmer: I have this complex game mechanic but no artistic skill, well, doodles should be fine. Artist: Gameplay isn't my thing, but I can make everything look and feel good.
God the sheer astonishing difference in visuals between both is a real interesting thing to look at. Complex mathematical coding engineering madness games like Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, CDDA, etc prefer simple visuals and unappealing looks but they circumvent it with some of the best unique god damn mechanics that revolutionize gaming and introduce so many mind numbing ideas on what a game can be. Then there's Potion Permit, i mean it looks good, that's it
The animations in Potionomics are so satisfying and fun. I just love watching characters do what they do. I also love how the haggle system lets you pull off an infinite that lets you sell literally any potion for literally any price, if you're willing to spend like an hour doing the same card combo over and over.
I think a fantasy doctor simulator game where you have to reference symptoms and deductively rule out causes for an illness by running different tests or giving certain treatments, where every action you take costs something (probably money) would be incredible. You would have to weigh the costs and benefits (and risks) of any course of action without knowing for sure what the right answer is. Being a wise and skilled doctor by the end of the game for little other reason than your own knowledge would feel incredibly satisfying. Too bad potion permit is not that lol
You may actually like pathologic, that description hit pretty close to it in my mind, it do be stressful though, I still haven't had the motivation to finish it
Each action you take costs money to run the machine... but it also occupies the machine for a certain amount of time. Is it worth dropping big money for the batch processor, more efficient but demands batch logistics?
It really did, because it looks just like the sort of thing I'd play. But I just couldn't see myself constantly going out to gather so few resources everyday. While also trying to get to know the townspeople.
You point out an interesting conundrum, that the more you give the potions a practical use, the less focused the game becomes on actually making the potions. I think the solution is for the potions you make to directly affect your ability to make new ones. As in, you can use your potions to enhance your ability to gather ingredients or make potions faster or at a higher strength. Similar to how in factory games you need certain resources to upgrade your buildings to make even better resources. The resource gathering feeds back into itself, enhancing the gameplay loop. In our perfect potion game, you need to make certain potions to upgrade your ability to make even better potions. As a result, the potions are useful to the player without distracting from the core loop.
My dream game is a VR Bartender Simulator - Potion Edition. You sit behind your bar, and various interesting customers come to your counter asking for various potions. The wacky ingredients would be fun to manipulate/refine, potions you would make for your customers or yourself give various buffs/effects, and cool mechanics like using a Fire Elemental customer as a heat source to boil your wolfsbane as you make their permafrost latte. That would be freakin' DOPE.
Potion Tales isn't out yet and only has a demo, and it honestly isn't much about potion making tbh, no puzzling or wacky ingredients, but you can give your customers _any_ potion in your book, and they _all_ change the plot. A _lot_. Everyone should check it out!
Honestly though that plays into the idea in the back of my mind. Effectively crafting for all these specific applications. Herbs mixtures, potions, drinks, etc. Works with spells and less esoteric stuff like normal crafting games.
Watching this reminds me how much I wish more games would put deeper mechanics into being a healer or doctor. While they were really shallow, I enjoyed the few mechanics in vampyr where you treated your patients. Imagine a rogue like game where you play as a combat medic and have to use triage to decide who to save and who to spare, and your actions resulted in different bonuses or gaining new skills that can help you in the next battle.
Potionomics got a nice quality of life update a while ago that allows way easier sorting of ingredients both for buying and for brewing so it’s way better now. I absolutely LOVE that game so much
I saw this comment about a nice quality of life update shortly after another nice quality of life update, so I was surprised it was from last year. Now it has an endless mode and voice acting, for example.
I personally have to thank you. I had basically written off Potionomics as a soulless genre mashed wannabe with a facebook artstyle. I was also getting closer and closer to spending my money on Potion Permit on it's premise. You saved me from buyer's regret and put on my plate something I would have otherwise never enjoyed both in one video. 🏆
@@shoganai2545 The characters' noses aren't red enough and their lips aren't drawn with an ugly amount of detail. Also, and this is the most important thing that sets it apart from the Tumblr artstyle, I actually like looking at this game.
Really I feel like the Atelier series deserved at least a mention. Admittedly, it focus is on general alchemy to create whatever is useful instead of making specifically potions. But I feel it is close enough to mention as few games even attempt to make as complex a crafting process along with the complexity of the games ingredients.
You rarely if ever craft actual "potions" in those games. The mechanics and styles are extremely similar to some of the games mentioned here, the basic systems in Potionomics and Potion Permit would fit perfectly into an Atelier game albeit with a million times more depth. The "mysterious" series even used a similar tetris style cauldron crafting system. But to take a random example of an Atelier I've played, Rorona has almost 70 consumable items, 6 of them could conceivably qualify as "potions" and even that's a stretch with 2 being salves and 2 being perfumes. That leaves only the Elixir and Nectar as unambiguous "potion" items. That's to say nothing of the equipment or intermediate items you craft.
There actually is a game like that coming out soon. You're a ghost landlord, and you try to play matchmake for your tenants. I've seen the demo on another channel. I wonder if he was referencing that game when making that comment? 😆
While watching the Potion Permit section I was literally thinking about Pathologic 2, never in a million years expecting the surprise twist at the end.
I'm surprised an entire video about potion making games happened without a single mention of the Atelier series though those are more like crafting-focused RPG than "potion making games" since in that universe alchemy can create seemingly anything
@@kittyshippercavegirl even in sophie there is more crazy stuff than the lantern, there is an epilogue in sophie where she creates an item used in firis, it's not that wild after plating firis and knowing how the game is, but that still it's on another level
I would love a potion game with a Coffee Talk vibe, where people tell you what they want the potion to do and you need to figure out a recipe that works for them.
It’s been a year so not sure if you’ll see this, but have you seen the game called Tavern Talk? I haven’t played, but it kinda gave me the vibe of what you described~ more magical/fantasy-like?
one thing I wish Potionomics did for the boss fights was have it so that the bosses could fight back and haggle to bring up their own prices, turning it into a tug of war to get the higher price. Perhaps you and the boss take turns haggling and both use the same Patience, allowing one of you to just waste patience to lock out the opponent
0:40 The Bayeux tapestry is actually really impressive in person; it seems to go on forever. I’d go to it when it’s not busy so you can fully appreciate the information in the audio players they give you.
Witchery mod for older Minecraft versions was perfect for me. It didn't have insane complexity but the fact that you can actually use all those cool potion effects is what I'm craving from all these potion making games. Brew that explodes into a blinding gas that summons bats and entangles you in a web, brew that colors your skin red and turns you into a giant, brew that paralyses and strips your armor off. That mod brought twice as many features as Minecraft itself at the time.
@@probower4726I never moved on from 1.7.10 because of the mods. I look at new versions of minecraft with their fancy off hand mechanics and raids and think:" I'm happy with AE2 thanks"
This is such a perfect video for me, I’ve been searching for a great potion game for a while. I used to mix random things together in my tea party set as a child until my mom made me stop but the potion dream is still alive.
This is one of the best "actual reviews" I've ever seen, and the amount you care about this genre shines through. It also seems to be a big part of what makes this deep dive even possible, few would care enough to dig as deep and think as much about such "small" games. Big thank you, this has been great!
"There's no good potion crafting game... Scratch that, there is Pathologic 2." As someone who genuinely played Pathologic and Pathologic 2: I liked that, these games are masterful in their writing and tension management. (Oh, you think because you're in the third part of the game you've got everything you need to save everyone? Think again, now you'll have to willingly get infected in order to keep one of your patients safe!)
The important part of Potion Craft, is to stop when it feels tedious. It's just a relaxing game about drawing vectors on a map. Devs called it "1.0" and kicked it out the door a bit prematurely, but I wouldn't expect anything mindblowing from the final map. The Ultimate Potion games are Atelier Iris 3 and Mana Khemia on the PS2. Newer Atelier games are more about the girls and their stories than the potions. I'm 133 hours into a Factorio Space Exploration run myself.
I actually have to countermand you on the point of the Atelier games; Atelier Iris 3 & Mana Khemia both unfortunately end up failing because they gate off materials according to the areas you can go very hard, to the point that you can't find even one item from shared catagories needed to make new items for a very long time. You also get the same raw ingredients with little variance over and over, so there's a lot less variety in recipes in general, too; the majority of it is in the tiers of gear each new world unlocks, as I recall, and you get vanishingly little else. There is plenty of secondary materials with a wide range of possible qualities and effects from crafting different things together, Atelier Sophie 1 & 2, on the other hand, has not only variety on ingredients, but also variety on ingredient functionality, so you can make something late in the game much more effectively than early on, but at the same time you can't just throw in tons of high-rank ingredients and it works, because of the restrictions of the cauldron you're using (the primary gating mechanic of the first game, there). Firis and Lydia & Suelle similarly had their alchemy systems made like Sophie's, though with their own twists on it, and it made me quite happy to see the Atelier series putting more effort into the alchemy system. Ryza was a marked step down in this, unfortunately, as it went with a "get enough color points for a node" choice where it rarely matters what you throw in, so long as it color (element) matches, unless it's a node that specifically wants ONE type of ingredient, but that just gets back to the same issues AI3/MK had, though with a lot more nodes to throw useless ingredients into; I hope they go back towards a more mechanically competent system going forward from Ryza.
It's amazing how you can keep talking for as long as you do and still sound interesting throughout the entire video. Idk if you script things or are simply good at thinking of what to say and cutting it together, but either way you deserve millions of subscribers.
You may find it helpful to know that there are viewers like me who originally started watching for your factorio content but also love your non factorio content. Your videos are always so high quality i would probably watch anything you put out. Thanks so much for the rigorous, thoughtful and hilarious videos Dosh!
Halfway through I almost made a comment like, “not technically a potion making game but it would be so cool to hear your perspective on Pathologic 2.” Glad I watched to the end and yet another reason you are my favorite RUclipsr!
I was pretty surprised at the criticism for Potion Permit because everything you mentioned is what makes the game fun for me 😅 One man’s trash truly is another man’s treasure, but maybe it’s just because I’m looking for games with simply vibes 👀
Always interesting to see so different approaches to games. I loved Stardew Valley for the struggle that is trying to squeeze something important out of every energy, gold, and minute in game (especially in the beginning). Then I started a new farm with my younger sibling (their first time playing). I like the relationships and characters, but it was always treated as a part of the checklist. In contrast, my sibling started beef with Leah (don't remember why) and gave her trash/anything she hated for like a whole year, would walk Abigail home by holding a torch and walking with her, and ultimately having to let Abigail go because Haley was just better (despite not truly starting a relationship with Abigail). In the background, I'm chopping as many trees and collecting as much as possible to get lvl. 10 forging, so I can get iridium quality forage items in the future, all while managing my fluctuating money that will be really high one day before having as close to zero the next as spent it all just so I could work to make even more money. Sibling told me they could not imagine being so willing to spend all that money easily and living in poverty. And I couldn't imagine being okay spending so much time decorating before I have a steady income, a lot of main objectives completed, and access to any resource/crop I need in surplus.
@@eyesfullofsky9776each to their own, i think some of the other games were far too bland, where you just continue to make potions over and over again to sell with no real story or plot, or if any, very little. And so little to do outside of only making potions. If that is what you were going for, great. Potion Permit just explored far more than just potion making and that might not be for everyone. We are all different and look for different things in games. So it’s very much each to their own. But i do love to see other peoples options and views on it 😊
@@Firebrace I see both sides of this sibling coin. I really like the characters of Stardew and was surprised he said they were one dimensional. However, if you treat talking to them as a checklist I can see how that could happen. I also ran around after my crushes and made little scenarios to spend time with them. Like fishing where sebastian smokes. However, I like making wineries and always try to ramp up quickly. I just tend to get exhausted and then immediately go flirt with my chosen wife/husband
Alchemist Simulator. That's the best potion making game I've ever played. The only problem I had with it is that it's too short. It felt like a tech demo to be the best alchemy system any MMO or open world game could ask for.
Yes, if you try and optimize your potion recipes and fill the custom requests the game is actually pretty engaging (when you're brewing). It's everything else in the game that feels out of whack. Like he said the economy doesn't incentivize you to engage with the interesting brewing mechanics and the need to grind removes the focus on brewing.
Great video! Throughout the whole thing I kept thinking to myself "I have to leave a comment about Pathologic 2 once it's over, it's almost everything this guy wants in a potion game." Then I got to the ending and was pleasantly surprised. Definitely earned a subscription from me. Also it's not strictly a potion-making game but Opus Magnum did have me feeling like a proper alchemist.
@@jackmesrel4933 Atelier Sophie can just be described its a slightly better potion permit. Tetris stacking when making potions and boring af characters and overall really boring game play loop.
Great video! Despite my differing opinion, I really enjoy your video style. You taught me things about the mechanics of a game that I never put much thought into.
I appreciate this content of exploring a niche genre and not being pedantic about it but also not treating the viewer like a dingus when describing the degree to which various pieces of the gameplay loop are essential I look forward to more of this type of video :D
Potionomics was one of the best games i played in a while. The animation was what brought me here but the card haggling and planning my ingredient unlocks along with the dialogue was what kept me. Also the cat pirates track is, personally, awesome.
I really like the visual though, especially that isometric with chibi one at 9:40. Loading time seems like a turn off sadly, especially with a PC that struggle to even play old games at times.
I didn't ever really think that I needed a video about potion making video games, but... I really needed a video about potion making video games. Bravo!
I Absolutely love your videos. Especially the ones where you play some obtuse, painful-to-watch game like La Mulana. The moment I get my new job I'm hoping on your patreon. Keep at it man.
I absolutely not care one bit about Factorio but his other video are genuinely one of the best videos I've ever watched on RUclips. The pacing,editing, commentary, his voice... everything is perfect.
Great video! I'll add my voice to the ones who have mentioned the Atelier series. They're very "anime", but if you can get past that you have a really engaging alchemy system that feeds into the game's combat and exploration/gathering, which in turn feeds into the alchemy. Not a dedicated "potion making game", but as a game where crafting is the main objective it's a lot of fun.
To say they're very anime isn't the half of it. They're super casual and their stories are rarely particularly complicated, characters often already know what you need, how to get what you need, or just hand over the thing you need the moment you ask about it; though they do get fairly deep when you read between the lines and connect the dots between each game in their respective quadrilogy, and some can have pretty dark moments despite the over-all light tone that's usually present. They can get quite difficult, depending on what your difficulty setting is, and range from mediocre crafting being sufficient to needing to min-max your crafting or you'll have a very bad time, and the crafting can be as simple as slapping what you already have together to an involved process to move a singular trait from one item to another through 6+ step processes. Many of them, particularly the older ones, also have time-based game overs. The only one of the more recent ones that do, that I can point at, is the first half of Firis, though Firis gives you *plenty* of time.
Potionomics fan here, I absolutely agree with your analysis of the game. A large issue I have is that it attempts to play to two, very different audiences at once - Casual, dating sim fans, and efficiency optimizers. After the first few days, you quickly realize doing activities with NPCs is a waste of time - You can build relationship much faster via gifts, and there are better ways to remove stress. However, for those coming in expecting a much more cute experience, they might attempt to use this feature more, meaning they generate less money, and are spiraling downwards in terms of keeping up with demands as the game goes on. This leads to the many losses from the early bosses. On the flipside, my playthrough ended the same way yours did. In fact, I think I hardly ever haggled during a boss fight, besides when I purposefully set myself up with a bad potion to try and lose. Difficulty options are a point of controversy, but I think that Potionomics would have greatly benefited from them. It'd allow optimizers to engage with a real efficiency puzzle, while dating sim fans can faun over best-boy Baptiste.
I can’t believe you mentioned pathologic 2! As a long time fan of the 2005 version, it’s nice to see the developers of such a strange and intricate game get some love
Opus Magnum music = neuron activation, you now have my attention I should go back and try to finish the journal puzzles in that game, it was fun working through even the bonus production model chapter after the story stuff - I remember I had to refactor several of my solutions during that chapter to have em not crash, hahaha
@@memes_gbc674 To be somewhat fair, Opus Magnum doesn't exactly fit the criteria these games look to fit under It's got a few "potions" to make, yeah, but like Dosh's example with Witchwood, it's not the main focus by any stretch -He's also talked about Opus Magnum before alongside all the other Zachtronics games anyway lul-
The KCD potion minigame system was really cool and was like it's own flash game level of depth (not too much but enough to be unique) and combined with the actual game having to go out and find herbs and ingredients and then mix them manually either buying the recipe or experimenting but with each being complex enough that it could take a while to 'find' the recipes. You could also kind of just become a full time potion merchant who goes and get's ingredients, sells potions, buys new recipes, use potions you made for speech buff to sell for more price and then eventually get the perk to autobrew which has a fair trade off that you get less from the same ingredients but get it instantly which is nicer for the rest of the game besides. Really cool idea that hopefully goes into more depth for another game (hopefully a KCD sequel)
Did not expect you to mention Pathologic 2! It's a masterpiece, not because of potion making mechanics, of course, but because of incredible atmosphere and narrative experience. If you are looking for a game that's deep, immersive and vastly different from any other game - you should definitely play it. I played it like 2 years ago and I'm still under impression from it
When I opened the video my first instinct was to comment "Pathologic is a game about brewing potions!" and then laugh maniacally but of course he's played it and it's in the video...
"The game also gives you a dog who follows you around to pander to the 'heckin pupper' crowd, but I'm not so easily swayed. Even when it was begging for food, I never fed it." Absolute legend.
I've played a lot of Potion Craft and somehow it didn't get too boring to me. The fun of it for me came from finding the cheapest route to each effect and saving the resulting potions. In fact, that's where most of the Depth come from.
Potion Permit is a perfect example of someone who likes art and learned how to do pixel art (it is pretty in its own way), and because stuff like game maker exist, they think they can make a game, except they have no idea about game development and story telling, what makes a game fun, how to balance things and so on
Well I think so , the developer literally have zero experience or at least little in game development. Knowing the developer is from Indonesia, the country which hardly ever had any notable games nor experienced developer. It is still servicable for their first project. For those unaware, despite Indonesia have a lot of populations, it is astronomically rare to see a game studio from that country because Indonesia is actually lacking in human resources department compared to neighbouring country. But at the very least I appreciate their effort despite the unsatisfactory outcome.
I feel called out, at 7:50 I'm literally playing vampire survivors right now because its a game that is easy enough to play while also watching/listening to videos. AND have used alchemist sim in exactly the same way in the past. Honestly a very good comparison.
I was NOT expecting a Pathologic reference in this video. I was genuinely thinking of it while you were discussing what's good and bad about the mechanics but it's a pretty obscure game.
Actually I really like your ending reflection on how it seems the more you justify the use of potions, the less about potions the games becomes. Over the past couple years, tons of fun ideas I've thought about basically say "what if magic, but I could and fun?" It's fun and cool to daydream about magic, potions, alchemy, element bending, etc. but the coolest part is the world that puts those (often simple) ideas to good use. Random viewer ramblings aside, this was a really cool video. :)
Little Witch in the Woods is a little indie potion game still in early access that charmed me lately. The potion making serves a lot of purposes and ingredient collection is quite fun, but the potion making itself can feel quite dull, as all it is is selecting the correct ingredients, and dialing in the stir speed, direction, and cauldron temperature as according to the cookbook. Still, it is rather neat, as the potions you make not only fuel the game's economy, but the plot, sidequests, overworld exploration, and some ingredients need you to use certain potions to collect them, like these spiders that can only be collected if you drink a potion that makes you invisible. The writing's also pretty charming, but if you aren't into slow paced storybook type narratives, it'll probably just bore you.
I'd like to recommend Little Witch in the Woods, but given I kinda liked what potion permit was going for, just wished there was something more to it idk if you'd like it.
I think there’s quite an abyss between Little Witch and Potion Permit, even though they may look similar on the surface because of the presentation. I found the gameplay in Little Witch to be a lot more engaging, it felt a lot more like you’re exploring and discovering stuff and that your actions have meaning. Potion Permit lacks all that, it only has endless grinding. In addition to that all the grinding ends up being counter-productive in terms of making you like the characters. When everyone is literally asking you to do their job for them, it’s hard to feel anything other than you’re being exploited.
@Irene Saltini That's definitely true and fair. I just felt like they were going for similar things, but Potion Permit lacked the same depth. Meaning I feel uncertain recommending it to someone who seems to dislike a lot of the base premise.
Huh, a bit surprised that the Atelier games were never mentioned, even as an aside or comparison. I guess it could fall under the same sort of issue as Pathologic, where it's more than just potion-crafting so you don't feel it fits the description? But I would argue that "Alchemy Shop" is close enough to "Potion Shop" for the differences to be academic at best. 'Course, there are plenty of other reasons for choosing not to mention them.
Pathologic 2 is a surprising inclusion. There's a game that feels less like a game and more like a piece of great art. I'd really recommend it to anyone who enjoys great literature, has a lot of patience, and would like to see an amazing fusion of narrative and gameplay. Don't get me wrong, that fusion will make you feel just as depressive and stressed as the game's atmosphere. Don't expect it to be a fun experience, expect it to be an enriching one.
I'm surprised you didn't try one of the Atelier games. The series is focused on alchemy and you brewing items. Well okay maybe it's because it's not specifically just potions since in Atelier games you brew like everything.
Can't wait for you to play it, Dosh! And I also can't wait for the incredibly long video(s) about it. End-game isn't finished, by the way. They're still working on...whatever giant multiblocks are required for UEV ("Ultimate Extreme Voltage") and MAX voltage tiers.
Someone make a Potion Crafting Factorio mod so I can play that too.
the science are potion shaped...
not quite potions, but the Thaumaturgic Machinations mod
I'm just imagining Minecraft GregTech but instead of elements its different herbs
Please release the new video soon! Months of wait is unacceptable for my free content!
@@TheSuitBoi And a basketball is planet-shaped, but a licensed NBA video game isn't going to help a hankering for KSP.
I think we all agree that the old Flash bartender game is truly the best potion making game of all time.
You know what.
You're right.
my stomach angers
DRUNKEN MASTEEEERS!
I could have remembered something useful or funny or endearing. God-forbid, maybe even something important.
Instead, somewhere in my brain, a couple of shitass neurons have no idea that their only purpose has been to maintain a pathway to let me, after over a decade without thinking about it, recall the name of some flash game I played when I was too young to get any of the jokes.
Bartender: The Right Mix.
Good job lads, keep up the good work.
The Right Mix actually has a singular goal, and no one ever does it.
Thanks for the shoutout for the music in Potionomics!
Loved your work!
I would've talked about the music more, but sadly it wasn't really the subject of the video. It was way more professional than I'd expect from a little potion crafting game and It really deserved more than just a shout out. Muktuk's theme was definitely my favorite.
@@DoshDoshington I love muktuk's theme - I've used it for a favorite NPC in my D&D game.
moth theme slaps
"PP is so decompressed; anymore is at risk to giving you the bends"
is a masterpiece of word craft
I opened the comments and read this exactly as he said it in the video lmao
also "PP is so flaccid in tone" lmao
"PP just isn't hard, or challenging at all"
I was just going to comment on this. Absolutely genius and made me genuinely laugh out loud.
Potion Permit was such a huge disappointment for me. I liked the aesthetics and premise a lot, and the gathering sections were decent. But everything else is so shallow it really makes you wonder why most of the other mechanics were even in the game - they feel like placeholders in an incomplete proof-of-concept.
Potion man
Take me by the hand
Take me to the land
That you understand
😂Thats brown
Potion man, the crusade to the corner of the globe
Is a real trip
You can't handle his land, it will kill you
"Am I meant to play the role of some voyeuristic ghost trying to get people to hook up so I can watch them through a window". Absolute gold and why I keep coming back to this channel.
...
To watch a couple through a window?
“I ended up choosing the moth chick because she’s got four arms. And I’m not gonna elaborate on that any further” is a pretty close second as far as gold goes.
@@Known_as_The_Ghost what else does one do on a saturday night?
Its unironically good criticism too ☠️
The virgin self-inserter: "noooo, this character isn't a non-descript isekai protagonist!"
The Chad thespian: "I am a multi-eyed crow-octopus thing of no distinguishing gender and I am to romance the sapient portal into another reality? *That is EXACTLY my fetish.*"
I truly want an alchemy game set in a pre-classical era style, small clans in forested areas. The protagonist would be one of the first alchemists, learning and attempting to understand what does what through trial and error, when the character dies, their child continues their works, slowly building the family encyclopedia.
Whoa that sounds way fucking cool
I got chills from this comment - literally been thinking of something like that for years! If things could be wished into existence, that game would have been out in 2015. Can't believe there's been someone out there with the same thoughts
crusader kings, but, potions?
There’s a game somewhat like that called Kynseed.
could be fun but if the recipes are hard coded, learning them once means you can never lose. Make em random to fix that problem, and then it's just a dice roll simulator
"Regardless I ended up choosing the moth chick because she's got 4 arms, and I'm not going to elaborate on that any further." Haven't laughed like this in a while xDD
Obviously, twice the arms means twice the factorio games she can play at once.
i personally would choose the cauldronsmith but if i had the option to give him more arms... yeah i would've
@@mrShift_0044 Muktuk is an absolute bro, 10/10 would lift more weights.
you got a timestamp?
I can agree with his statement of four arms, I'm also not going to elaborate on it.
The most aggravating thing about Potion Permit is how easy it is to delete your entire save. I lost 28 hours of playtime with just pressing X.
For me it was the crazy amount of glitches
@@darkangel9551What.. glitches...😮
I'm so glad I'm not the only one. As much as I like that game, such a damn tilter when I lost those hours
I quite liked the game and story idk why this guy committed himself so hard to bad opinions. But yeah the only thing I didn’t like was the repetitive nature of resource gathering. I I do wish characters in the kind of genre in general were more in depth
brooo that game sounds bad
I think one thing that most potion craft games lack is the sense of discovery and mystery. My ideal game would perhaps be something similar to Pathologic, but with a very strong influence from Strange Horticulture, which is just a delightful little indie darling.
Strange Horticulture was FANTASTIC. I desperately seek the game that is the potion-crafting equivalent to how I felt playing that game LOL
It's funny how games that do that, but are not entirely around potion are better than the ones mentioned here
@@bruschetta7711got any recommendations?
Strange horticulture is one of my favourite games of all time
Pathologic and Strange Horticulture are EXCELLENT games. Pathologic is a deep cut. I respect your taste in games 👌
I'm surprised that you didn't mention Miasmata (2012). The entire concept of that game is that you're infected with the plague and have to forage for various rare plants and fungi to research and eventually synthesize into a cure. In many ways it's quite similar to Pathologic but with less narrative weirdness and more simulated hiking and cartography
Oh yeah, I remember that game. The unique map system's cool, puts all that boy scout knowledge to use
@@DoshDoshington make a video about it please 🥺
Never heard about it, thank you for mentioning it, wishlisted it :)
Interesting premise. Unfortunately I took a look at it and it looks dated AF. Quite a few games can age pretty well by leaning into an art style with even some retro games having formed their own aesthetic. 2010 till around 2014 however was a painful era where devs had enough power to play around with but not enough to make something that holds up today.
Going through all these cosy crafting games to hear that pathologic was what you wanted the whole time is just incredible. Perfect video
it's actually so funny to me that a factorio addict started doing game criticism and it's actually really good. keep up the good work. love the jokes that use lodological terminology
Everyone is a Factorio addict, they just don't have discovered their addiction yet.
I love how if you've been a gamer for long enough you can just tell if the developer is a programmer or an artist.
Programmer: I have this complex game mechanic but no artistic skill, well, doodles should be fine.
Artist: Gameplay isn't my thing, but I can make everything look and feel good.
And then there's the mathematician
@@user-burnerworst and best of both worlds, depending upon luck
@@chillyavian7718 dwarf fortress os a good case study on that
God the sheer astonishing difference in visuals between both is a real interesting thing to look at. Complex mathematical coding engineering madness games like Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, CDDA, etc prefer simple visuals and unappealing looks but they circumvent it with some of the best unique god damn mechanics that revolutionize gaming and introduce so many mind numbing ideas on what a game can be. Then there's Potion Permit, i mean it looks good, that's it
Potion making is just such a fun concept, and while i wasn't expecting pathologic, i deeply appreciate it.
The animations in Potionomics are so satisfying and fun. I just love watching characters do what they do. I also love how the haggle system lets you pull off an infinite that lets you sell literally any potion for literally any price, if you're willing to spend like an hour doing the same card combo over and over.
"I went with the moth chick because she has four arms"
No need to elaborate there.
Just pure patrician taste.
the best kind of character design
Twice the hugs :D
i was NOT expecting to see Pathologic 2 to be here. It made me so so happy to see it here. Thank you for this wonderful video
The second I thought about Pathologic 2 it appered in a video... imagine my reaction
I think a fantasy doctor simulator game where you have to reference symptoms and deductively rule out causes for an illness by running different tests or giving certain treatments, where every action you take costs something (probably money) would be incredible. You would have to weigh the costs and benefits (and risks) of any course of action without knowing for sure what the right answer is.
Being a wise and skilled doctor by the end of the game for little other reason than your own knowledge would feel incredibly satisfying.
Too bad potion permit is not that lol
Yep. but then pathologic comes around! not really fantasy though
my burned out ass would wait for a year after the release of the game so i can guide from the unofficial wiki of the game
@@clairelili873 pretty sure it is, especially by the end
You may actually like pathologic, that description hit pretty close to it in my mind, it do be stressful though, I still haven't had the motivation to finish it
Each action you take costs money to run the machine... but it also occupies the machine for a certain amount of time. Is it worth dropping big money for the batch processor, more efficient but demands batch logistics?
Potion permit looks promising at first but then it turned to grindfest real quick
It really did, because it looks just like the sort of thing I'd play. But I just couldn't see myself constantly going out to gather so few resources everyday. While also trying to get to know the townspeople.
Yup and it’s made so much more annoying that even with upgraded tools it’s takes so long to harvest the highest tiers of ingredients
After watching almost all your Factorio videos, I've never heard you deliver such emotion in one line as
"Old man Johnson's fractured ASS"
There was a lot of disdain in that ass
You point out an interesting conundrum, that the more you give the potions a practical use, the less focused the game becomes on actually making the potions. I think the solution is for the potions you make to directly affect your ability to make new ones. As in, you can use your potions to enhance your ability to gather ingredients or make potions faster or at a higher strength.
Similar to how in factory games you need certain resources to upgrade your buildings to make even better resources. The resource gathering feeds back into itself, enhancing the gameplay loop. In our perfect potion game, you need to make certain potions to upgrade your ability to make even better potions. As a result, the potions are useful to the player without distracting from the core loop.
Remember to register as an official agent before engaging in potion creation outside of games.
Of course
Not today, Federal Bureau of Insinuation!
@@Jesus_Offical Jesus boutta make the ultimate wine 😳
Typical FBI sticking their nose in other agencies' jurisdictions.
You're not the DEA, you can't stop me and my roaming potion shop!
The Pathologic 2 mention at the end was such a pleasant surprise lol. One of my favorite games ever so I'm always happy to see it get more love
My dream game is a VR Bartender Simulator - Potion Edition. You sit behind your bar, and various interesting customers come to your counter asking for various potions. The wacky ingredients would be fun to manipulate/refine, potions you would make for your customers or yourself give various buffs/effects, and cool mechanics like using a Fire Elemental customer as a heat source to boil your wolfsbane as you make their permafrost latte. That would be freakin' DOPE.
I believe there is something similar, but for blacksmithing instead of potions.
Potion Tales isn't out yet and only has a demo, and it honestly isn't much about potion making tbh, no puzzling or wacky ingredients, but you can give your customers _any_ potion in your book, and they _all_ change the plot. A _lot_. Everyone should check it out!
Honestly though that plays into the idea in the back of my mind. Effectively crafting for all these specific applications. Herbs mixtures, potions, drinks, etc. Works with spells and less esoteric stuff like normal crafting games.
@@ravenanne1734 very cool
SS13 lets you be a bartender, it's online though and most people make things to kill others in a funny way instead
Watching this reminds me how much I wish more games would put deeper mechanics into being a healer or doctor. While they were really shallow, I enjoyed the few mechanics in vampyr where you treated your patients. Imagine a rogue like game where you play as a combat medic and have to use triage to decide who to save and who to spare, and your actions resulted in different bonuses or gaining new skills that can help you in the next battle.
Potionomics got a nice quality of life update a while ago that allows way easier sorting of ingredients both for buying and for brewing so it’s way better now. I absolutely LOVE that game so much
It feels so comfy
We need a endless mode.
It certainly has the greatest art design. The characters are all beautifully animated.
T'was quite entertaining to play :D
too bad you can't play a male counterpart to the protagonist; if it had that, i'd be sold in playing it for a bit of shounen-ai sim-romance >w
I saw this comment about a nice quality of life update shortly after another nice quality of life update, so I was surprised it was from last year. Now it has an endless mode and voice acting, for example.
I personally have to thank you. I had basically written off Potionomics as a soulless genre mashed wannabe with a facebook artstyle. I was also getting closer and closer to spending my money on Potion Permit on it's premise. You saved me from buyer's regret and put on my plate something I would have otherwise never enjoyed both in one video. 🏆
Furry :3
Tumblr art style
I followed the development of Potionomics closely on twitter and the game delivered on what it set out to do, nothing more nothing less.
Doesn't Potion Permit have a demo though? I believe that's how I tried it though. So I knew not to buy it because of that.
@@shoganai2545 The characters' noses aren't red enough and their lips aren't drawn with an ugly amount of detail. Also, and this is the most important thing that sets it apart from the Tumblr artstyle, I actually like looking at this game.
I too love making potions from mixing questionably-sourced shampoo until I have nitroglycerine.
Nitroglycerin shampoo is best shampoo
My favourite shampoo is concentrated nitric acid with concentrated sulphuric acid in an ice bath.
No officer, it is regular shampoo, not super concentrated sulfric acid.
@@ewbaite Then you drop in the glycerin very slowly and carefully to make sure that the nitration mix doesn't explode.
@@ewbaite everyone loves piranha solution
Really I feel like the Atelier series deserved at least a mention. Admittedly, it focus is on general alchemy to create whatever is useful instead of making specifically potions. But I feel it is close enough to mention as few games even attempt to make as complex a crafting process along with the complexity of the games ingredients.
You rarely if ever craft actual "potions" in those games. The mechanics and styles are extremely similar to some of the games mentioned here, the basic systems in Potionomics and Potion Permit would fit perfectly into an Atelier game albeit with a million times more depth. The "mysterious" series even used a similar tetris style cauldron crafting system. But to take a random example of an Atelier I've played, Rorona has almost 70 consumable items, 6 of them could conceivably qualify as "potions" and even that's a stretch with 2 being salves and 2 being perfumes. That leaves only the Elixir and Nectar as unambiguous "potion" items. That's to say nothing of the equipment or intermediate items you craft.
18:15 "Voyeuristic ghost trying to get people to hook up so I can watch them through the window" sounds like a great pitch for a romance game! 🤣
I've got the perfect name for it -- GhostShip.
@@primejourney946 Rock and Stone!
There actually is a game like that coming out soon. You're a ghost landlord, and you try to play matchmake for your tenants. I've seen the demo on another channel. I wonder if he was referencing that game when making that comment? 😆
@@raerohan4241what's the name of the game?
@@raerohan4241 waiting for the name as well
While watching the Potion Permit section I was literally thinking about Pathologic 2, never in a million years expecting the surprise twist at the end.
now dont get me wrong, i like your factorio content, but i love when you cover other games
I have a 0% success rate haggling on Very Hard in Potion Craft. Seeing you nail those tiny slivers at high speed blows my mind. You're a true Gamer.
I'm surprised an entire video about potion making games happened without a single mention of the Atelier series
though those are more like crafting-focused RPG than "potion making games" since in that universe alchemy can create seemingly anything
I can't get over firis creating an artificial sun
@@nechocat1234 that happens? I've only really played Atelier Sophie and I thought a magic lantern that kills dragons was wild
@@kittyshippercavegirl even in sophie there is more crazy stuff than the lantern, there is an epilogue in sophie where she creates an item used in firis, it's not that wild after plating firis and knowing how the game is, but that still it's on another level
I would love a potion game with a Coffee Talk vibe, where people tell you what they want the potion to do and you need to figure out a recipe that works for them.
there’s a switch game with coffee talk vibe where you’re a witch in a coven and deal with tarot, so not potion per say but it might interest you.
For those interested it's Witchy Life Story I believe, very cozy but more VN than game@@strawbebe
It’s been a year so not sure if you’ll see this, but have you seen the game called Tavern Talk? I haven’t played, but it kinda gave me the vibe of what you described~ more magical/fantasy-like?
@ haven’t seen it yet but I’ll check it out, thanks!
one thing I wish Potionomics did for the boss fights was have it so that the bosses could fight back and haggle to bring up their own prices, turning it into a tug of war to get the higher price. Perhaps you and the boss take turns haggling and both use the same Patience, allowing one of you to just waste patience to lock out the opponent
You inspired me. I'll create your perfect potion game. Give me 25 years and I'll be back to let you know when I've made it.
Pathologic 2 getting some spotlight is nice, I enjoyed that game too, it's rare seeing such narrative oddballs around nowadays
I've legit had two of those listed games in my Steam Wishlist for over a year now, and this is PERFECT for helping me choose between them!
Always great to hear Pathologic (1 or 2) getting mentioned, they're both outstanding.
Hard agree on that, gotta be my favourite game series :D
Pathologic is the kind of game I will probably never play but always excited to hear about
0:40
The Bayeux tapestry is actually really impressive in person; it seems to go on forever. I’d go to it when it’s not busy so you can fully appreciate the information in the audio players they give you.
Witchery mod for older Minecraft versions was perfect for me. It didn't have insane complexity but the fact that you can actually use all those cool potion effects is what I'm craving from all these potion making games. Brew that explodes into a blinding gas that summons bats and entangles you in a web, brew that colors your skin red and turns you into a giant, brew that paralyses and strips your armor off. That mod brought twice as many features as Minecraft itself at the time.
"If the only end result of making potions is being able to make more potions, you failed" 36:25
I kinda miss that mod from 1.7.10. It also added being able to become a vampire.
@@probower4726I never moved on from 1.7.10 because of the mods. I look at new versions of minecraft with their fancy off hand mechanics and raids and think:" I'm happy with AE2 thanks"
this was what i was thinking of the whole video lmao i loved all the supernatural mods you could get. i was obsessed with magic-y lets plays
This is such a perfect video for me, I’ve been searching for a great potion game for a while. I used to mix random things together in my tea party set as a child until my mom made me stop but the potion dream is still alive.
This is one of the best "actual reviews" I've ever seen, and the amount you care about this genre shines through. It also seems to be a big part of what makes this deep dive even possible, few would care enough to dig as deep and think as much about such "small" games. Big thank you, this has been great!
"There's no good potion crafting game... Scratch that, there is Pathologic 2."
As someone who genuinely played Pathologic and Pathologic 2: I liked that, these games are masterful in their writing and tension management. (Oh, you think because you're in the third part of the game you've got everything you need to save everyone? Think again, now you'll have to willingly get infected in order to keep one of your patients safe!)
The important part of Potion Craft, is to stop when it feels tedious. It's just a relaxing game about drawing vectors on a map. Devs called it "1.0" and kicked it out the door a bit prematurely, but I wouldn't expect anything mindblowing from the final map.
The Ultimate Potion games are Atelier Iris 3 and Mana Khemia on the PS2. Newer Atelier games are more about the girls and their stories than the potions.
I'm 133 hours into a Factorio Space Exploration run myself.
I actually have to countermand you on the point of the Atelier games; Atelier Iris 3 & Mana Khemia both unfortunately end up failing because they gate off materials according to the areas you can go very hard, to the point that you can't find even one item from shared catagories needed to make new items for a very long time. You also get the same raw ingredients with little variance over and over, so there's a lot less variety in recipes in general, too; the majority of it is in the tiers of gear each new world unlocks, as I recall, and you get vanishingly little else. There is plenty of secondary materials with a wide range of possible qualities and effects from crafting different things together, Atelier Sophie 1 & 2, on the other hand, has not only variety on ingredients, but also variety on ingredient functionality, so you can make something late in the game much more effectively than early on, but at the same time you can't just throw in tons of high-rank ingredients and it works, because of the restrictions of the cauldron you're using (the primary gating mechanic of the first game, there). Firis and Lydia & Suelle similarly had their alchemy systems made like Sophie's, though with their own twists on it, and it made me quite happy to see the Atelier series putting more effort into the alchemy system. Ryza was a marked step down in this, unfortunately, as it went with a "get enough color points for a node" choice where it rarely matters what you throw in, so long as it color (element) matches, unless it's a node that specifically wants ONE type of ingredient, but that just gets back to the same issues AI3/MK had, though with a lot more nodes to throw useless ingredients into; I hope they go back towards a more mechanically competent system going forward from Ryza.
I love him talking about the feeling of confidence and safety as he pulls out a gun and starts shooting
It's amazing how you can keep talking for as long as you do and still sound interesting throughout the entire video. Idk if you script things or are simply good at thinking of what to say and cutting it together, but either way you deserve millions of subscribers.
I promise he uses a script
You may find it helpful to know that there are viewers like me who originally started watching for your factorio content but also love your non factorio content. Your videos are always so high quality i would probably watch anything you put out. Thanks so much for the rigorous, thoughtful and hilarious videos Dosh!
Halfway through I almost made a comment like, “not technically a potion making game but it would be so cool to hear your perspective on Pathologic 2.” Glad I watched to the end and yet another reason you are my favorite RUclipsr!
I was pretty surprised at the criticism for Potion Permit because everything you mentioned is what makes the game fun for me 😅
One man’s trash truly is another man’s treasure, but maybe it’s just because I’m looking for games with simply vibes 👀
I'm really surprised that he wasn't a fan tbh I think the game is pretty fun and Def a vibe
Always interesting to see so different approaches to games.
I loved Stardew Valley for the struggle that is trying to squeeze something important out of every energy, gold, and minute in game (especially in the beginning).
Then I started a new farm with my younger sibling (their first time playing).
I like the relationships and characters, but it was always treated as a part of the checklist. In contrast, my sibling started beef with Leah (don't remember why) and gave her trash/anything she hated for like a whole year, would walk Abigail home by holding a torch and walking with her, and ultimately having to let Abigail go because Haley was just better (despite not truly starting a relationship with Abigail). In the background, I'm chopping as many trees and collecting as much as possible to get lvl. 10 forging, so I can get iridium quality forage items in the future, all while managing my fluctuating money that will be really high one day before having as close to zero the next as spent it all just so I could work to make even more money.
Sibling told me they could not imagine being so willing to spend all that money easily and living in poverty. And I couldn't imagine being okay spending so much time decorating before I have a steady income, a lot of main objectives completed, and access to any resource/crop I need in surplus.
In his defense, Potion Permit is super bland in comparison to the other games in the video, among others (i.e. Atelier/Mana Khemia)
@@eyesfullofsky9776each to their own, i think some of the other games were far too bland, where you just continue to make potions over and over again to sell with no real story or plot, or if any, very little. And so little to do outside of only making potions. If that is what you were going for, great. Potion Permit just explored far more than just potion making and that might not be for everyone. We are all different and look for different things in games. So it’s very much each to their own. But i do love to see other peoples options and views on it 😊
@@Firebrace I see both sides of this sibling coin. I really like the characters of Stardew and was surprised he said they were one dimensional. However, if you treat talking to them as a checklist I can see how that could happen. I also ran around after my crushes and made little scenarios to spend time with them. Like fishing where sebastian smokes. However, I like making wineries and always try to ramp up quickly. I just tend to get exhausted and then immediately go flirt with my chosen wife/husband
the most surprising thing I've learnt from this video is that dosh somehow has patience left over to loose after the *many* factorio I n c i d e n t s
There's something amazing about spending most of the video talking about chill comfort games and then recommending *Pathologic* at the end of it.
Alchemist Simulator. That's the best potion making game I've ever played. The only problem I had with it is that it's too short. It felt like a tech demo to be the best alchemy system any MMO or open world game could ask for.
Yes, if you try and optimize your potion recipes and fill the custom requests the game is actually pretty engaging (when you're brewing). It's everything else in the game that feels out of whack. Like he said the economy doesn't incentivize you to engage with the interesting brewing mechanics and the need to grind removes the focus on brewing.
Not enough appreciation for the thumbnail from what I can see, so I'll chip in.
MY POTIONS ARE TOO STRONG FOR YOU, TRAVELLER
Great video! Throughout the whole thing I kept thinking to myself "I have to leave a comment about Pathologic 2 once it's over, it's almost everything this guy wants in a potion game." Then I got to the ending and was pleasantly surprised. Definitely earned a subscription from me.
Also it's not strictly a potion-making game but Opus Magnum did have me feeling like a proper alchemist.
Great. Now we need a full deep dive review of every single Atelier-series game out there.
It would take years if he goes full hog in all of the games. And I'm all for it XD
@@jackmesrel4933 Atelier Sophie can just be described its a slightly better potion permit.
Tetris stacking when making potions and boring af characters and overall really boring game play loop.
Great video! Despite my differing opinion, I really enjoy your video style. You taught me things about the mechanics of a game that I never put much thought into.
I appreciate this content of exploring a niche genre and not being pedantic about it but also not treating the viewer like a dingus when describing the degree to which various pieces of the gameplay loop are essential
I look forward to more of this type of video :D
Potionomics was one of the best games i played in a while. The animation was what brought me here but the card haggling and planning my ingredient unlocks along with the dialogue was what kept me.
Also the cat pirates track is, personally, awesome.
Little Witch in the Woods (still in early access) is one potion game that i really liked playing last year, worth the try if i say so
absolutely love that game
10:10 If I saw that VN-style dialogue without context, I would've thought this is an eroge lol
*nice video, thank you.
I really like the visual though, especially that isometric with chibi one at 9:40. Loading time seems like a turn off sadly, especially with a PC that struggle to even play old games at times.
I didn't ever really think that I needed a video about potion making video games, but... I really needed a video about potion making video games. Bravo!
Potionomics is super underrated. It’s not perfect but I love it so much.
I Absolutely love your videos. Especially the ones where you play some obtuse, painful-to-watch game like La Mulana. The moment I get my new job I'm hoping on your patreon. Keep at it man.
I absolutely not care one bit about Factorio but his other video are genuinely one of the best videos I've ever watched on RUclips. The pacing,editing, commentary, his voice... everything is perfect.
@@dntbther9298I’m just here to listen to his voice
0:06 Rare Jerma sighting in the wild
I just wanna say, about the third game, that it's okay to not like a bad game. Hard work is no substitute for good work.
"Pee Pee starts out with an endless stream..."
- Doshington, 2023
potioncraft's new update is amazing, theres a garden and everything!
Great video! I'll add my voice to the ones who have mentioned the Atelier series. They're very "anime", but if you can get past that you have a really engaging alchemy system that feeds into the game's combat and exploration/gathering, which in turn feeds into the alchemy. Not a dedicated "potion making game", but as a game where crafting is the main objective it's a lot of fun.
To say they're very anime isn't the half of it. They're super casual and their stories are rarely particularly complicated, characters often already know what you need, how to get what you need, or just hand over the thing you need the moment you ask about it; though they do get fairly deep when you read between the lines and connect the dots between each game in their respective quadrilogy, and some can have pretty dark moments despite the over-all light tone that's usually present.
They can get quite difficult, depending on what your difficulty setting is, and range from mediocre crafting being sufficient to needing to min-max your crafting or you'll have a very bad time, and the crafting can be as simple as slapping what you already have together to an involved process to move a singular trait from one item to another through 6+ step processes. Many of them, particularly the older ones, also have time-based game overs. The only one of the more recent ones that do, that I can point at, is the first half of Firis, though Firis gives you *plenty* of time.
Potionomics fan here, I absolutely agree with your analysis of the game. A large issue I have is that it attempts to play to two, very different audiences at once - Casual, dating sim fans, and efficiency optimizers.
After the first few days, you quickly realize doing activities with NPCs is a waste of time - You can build relationship much faster via gifts, and there are better ways to remove stress. However, for those coming in expecting a much more cute experience, they might attempt to use this feature more, meaning they generate less money, and are spiraling downwards in terms of keeping up with demands as the game goes on. This leads to the many losses from the early bosses.
On the flipside, my playthrough ended the same way yours did. In fact, I think I hardly ever haggled during a boss fight, besides when I purposefully set myself up with a bad potion to try and lose.
Difficulty options are a point of controversy, but I think that Potionomics would have greatly benefited from them. It'd allow optimizers to engage with a real efficiency puzzle, while dating sim fans can faun over best-boy Baptiste.
18:30 moth girl.
Good choice. No elaboration needed
I can’t believe you mentioned pathologic 2! As a long time fan of the 2005 version, it’s nice to see the developers of such a strange and intricate game get some love
Opus Magnum music = neuron activation, you now have my attention
I should go back and try to finish the journal puzzles in that game, it was fun working through even the bonus production model chapter after the story stuff - I remember I had to refactor several of my solutions during that chapter to have em not crash, hahaha
fr bro, i was hoping he would have at least touched upon opus magnum
@@memes_gbc674 To be somewhat fair, Opus Magnum doesn't exactly fit the criteria these games look to fit under
It's got a few "potions" to make, yeah, but like Dosh's example with Witchwood, it's not the main focus by any stretch
-He's also talked about Opus Magnum before alongside all the other Zachtronics games anyway lul-
@@lordmarshmal_0643 well what i meant is that he'd at least mention it, not do a full on critique like the rest of the games
@@memes_gbc674 He already did alongside all the other zachtronic games ruclips.net/video/2NwVFpf0z1o/видео.html
The KCD potion minigame system was really cool and was like it's own flash game level of depth (not too much but enough to be unique) and combined with the actual game having to go out and find herbs and ingredients and then mix them manually either buying the recipe or experimenting but with each being complex enough that it could take a while to 'find' the recipes. You could also kind of just become a full time potion merchant who goes and get's ingredients, sells potions, buys new recipes, use potions you made for speech buff to sell for more price and then eventually get the perk to autobrew which has a fair trade off that you get less from the same ingredients but get it instantly which is nicer for the rest of the game besides. Really cool idea that hopefully goes into more depth for another game (hopefully a KCD sequel)
Did not expect you to mention Pathologic 2!
It's a masterpiece, not because of potion making mechanics, of course, but because of incredible atmosphere and narrative experience. If you are looking for a game that's deep, immersive and vastly different from any other game - you should definitely play it. I played it like 2 years ago and I'm still under impression from it
There is something special about your sense of humor, pacing, and general narrative style. A+ video, keep doing things like this.
When I opened the video my first instinct was to comment "Pathologic is a game about brewing potions!" and then laugh maniacally but of course he's played it and it's in the video...
"The game also gives you a dog who follows you around to pander to the 'heckin pupper' crowd, but I'm not so easily swayed. Even when it was begging for food, I never fed it."
Absolute legend.
I've played a lot of Potion Craft and somehow it didn't get too boring to me. The fun of it for me came from finding the cheapest route to each effect and saving the resulting potions. In fact, that's where most of the Depth come from.
Thanks!
"I ended up choosing the moth girl because she has four arms and I'm not gonna elaborate further" ahh a man of culture!
Potion Permit is a perfect example of someone who likes art and learned how to do pixel art (it is pretty in its own way), and because stuff like game maker exist, they think they can make a game, except they have no idea about game development and story telling, what makes a game fun, how to balance things and so on
Well I think so , the developer literally have zero experience or at least little in game development. Knowing the developer is from Indonesia, the country which hardly ever had any notable games nor experienced developer. It is still servicable for their first project. For those unaware, despite Indonesia have a lot of populations, it is astronomically rare to see a game studio from that country because Indonesia is actually lacking in human resources department compared to neighbouring country. But at the very least I appreciate their effort despite the unsatisfactory outcome.
I feel called out, at 7:50
I'm literally playing vampire survivors right now because its a game that is easy enough to play while also watching/listening to videos.
AND have used alchemist sim in exactly the same way in the past. Honestly a very good comparison.
I was NOT expecting a Pathologic reference in this video. I was genuinely thinking of it while you were discussing what's good and bad about the mechanics but it's a pretty obscure game.
factorio is a potion making game. You already make science packs (potions)
Actually I really like your ending reflection on how it seems the more you justify the use of potions, the less about potions the games becomes. Over the past couple years, tons of fun ideas I've thought about basically say "what if magic, but I could and fun?" It's fun and cool to daydream about magic, potions, alchemy, element bending, etc. but the coolest part is the world that puts those (often simple) ideas to good use.
Random viewer ramblings aside, this was a really cool video. :)
Little Witch in the Woods is a little indie potion game still in early access that charmed me lately. The potion making serves a lot of purposes and ingredient collection is quite fun, but the potion making itself can feel quite dull, as all it is is selecting the correct ingredients, and dialing in the stir speed, direction, and cauldron temperature as according to the cookbook. Still, it is rather neat, as the potions you make not only fuel the game's economy, but the plot, sidequests, overworld exploration, and some ingredients need you to use certain potions to collect them, like these spiders that can only be collected if you drink a potion that makes you invisible. The writing's also pretty charming, but if you aren't into slow paced storybook type narratives, it'll probably just bore you.
Potion Permit would of been a damn decent DS game back in the day
you should try the atelier games, they fit nicely in the "potion crafting" category
I can't believe you described how I feel about playing as men in video games in the potionomics section this well. Nail on the head
I fucking screamed when you mentioned Pathologic. Everything always leads back to Pathologic lmao💀
I'd like to recommend Little Witch in the Woods, but given I kinda liked what potion permit was going for, just wished there was something more to it idk if you'd like it.
I think there’s quite an abyss between Little Witch and Potion Permit, even though they may look similar on the surface because of the presentation. I found the gameplay in Little Witch to be a lot more engaging, it felt a lot more like you’re exploring and discovering stuff and that your actions have meaning. Potion Permit lacks all that, it only has endless grinding.
In addition to that all the grinding ends up being counter-productive in terms of making you like the characters. When everyone is literally asking you to do their job for them, it’s hard to feel anything other than you’re being exploited.
@Irene Saltini That's definitely true and fair. I just felt like they were going for similar things, but Potion Permit lacked the same depth. Meaning I feel uncertain recommending it to someone who seems to dislike a lot of the base premise.
Out of all of them potionomics seemed the most interesting to me because of the plot and characters, I might just try it out someday :)
Huh, a bit surprised that the Atelier games were never mentioned, even as an aside or comparison. I guess it could fall under the same sort of issue as Pathologic, where it's more than just potion-crafting so you don't feel it fits the description? But I would argue that "Alchemy Shop" is close enough to "Potion Shop" for the differences to be academic at best. 'Course, there are plenty of other reasons for choosing not to mention them.
Pathologic 2 is a surprising inclusion. There's a game that feels less like a game and more like a piece of great art. I'd really recommend it to anyone who enjoys great literature, has a lot of patience, and would like to see an amazing fusion of narrative and gameplay.
Don't get me wrong, that fusion will make you feel just as depressive and stressed as the game's atmosphere. Don't expect it to be a fun experience, expect it to be an enriching one.
I'm surprised you didn't try one of the Atelier games. The series is focused on alchemy and you brewing items. Well okay maybe it's because it's not specifically just potions since in Atelier games you brew like everything.
If you really want to suffer, you should play Gregtech new horizons
I'll do it as soon as Microsoft personally gives me my account back after they migrated everything
I have found you
Can't wait for you to play it, Dosh! And I also can't wait for the incredibly long video(s) about it.
End-game isn't finished, by the way. They're still working on...whatever giant multiblocks are required for UEV ("Ultimate Extreme Voltage") and MAX voltage tiers.
Recommending Pathologic to an unsuspecting audience is an act of malice.