It was impossible to mention in the space of this video all the fantasy authors who deserve to be mentioned in an account of the genre. Which authors would you mention?
I know Anne Rice is famous for The Vampire Chronicles, but that's a gap in my reading, to be honest. Since I haven't read it yet, I could be wrong, but would you categorize her books as Gothic fiction or horror? Of course, the line between fantasy and horror is a complete blur, and both have connections to Gothic fiction. Anyway, I should certainly check out Anne Rice's books!
Anne Rice definitely is gothic fiction to me - and most of her work is well worth reading. She's great at romanticizing the dark, dangerous creatures of gothic horror like ghosts, witches and vampires. Although the vampire chronicles lost my interest after book four or five, the first ones are great. As is the Witching Hour series and Servant of the Bones .
Rob Paul Good to know! Now I just need to find the time to branch out some more. A serious question: Is there a genre you’re not well read in? It’s always fantastic to read your take because it’s so well informed!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Aw thanks 😊 I wouldn't consider myself well read in most genres, except maybe fantasy - even there are glaring gaps.. Like you say, time is such an annoying issue. But I have read a bit of most genres as my interests are quite broad.
Listening to you talk about fantasy makes me reaffirm why I love it so much. I love the part when you say fantasy is about "nurturing the imagination", and "what could be more human than the capacity to imagine?"
Jarl Trippin' Thank you very much! I’d love to blow up (I mean the channel), but I’m also having a great time as it is since I get to interact with cool people about fantasy. I appreciate you watching and commenting!
Hey, Steve! Great to see you here! I hope you’re doing great. I’ve been doing the RUclips thing for just over a year now, and it’s a ton of fun. You know my email address if you want to catch up!
I read Tolkien's masterpiece in 1973, age 12 (in Dutch). It awakened my love for fantasy, so the next few years I read nothing but - in English. The Ballantine Adult Fantasy Series, edited by Lin Carter, revived lots of forgotten fantasy authors, like Morris, Eddison, Cabell, Dunsany... The study that became my Bible then, was Lin Carter's Imaginary Worlds, in which he did the same as this video: lay bare the roots and history of the fantasy genre (and a lot more). Recommended!
Thank you so much for the recommendation! I will most certainly check out Lin Carter's Imaginary Worlds, which I have not yet read. I was very small in 1973, so I would have to wait a few years to read Tolkien, but you read The Lord of the Rings in the last year of his life (Not to be morbid about it, but I've always sort of wished I had been old enough to read Tolkien's books when he was alive, and I used to imagine meeting the man. I had a professor who met him and C.S. Lewis at Oxford, and he used to speak of them sometimes, but that's another story). Thanks for watching and commenting -- much appreciated!
What an awesome treatise this was. I have to talk about the definition of myth and what not in my classes when we do mythology. So cool to see the genre's evolution past what I knew it to be. Please do more videos like this, Professor!
The Library of Allenxandria Thank you for the kind words. Coming from a fellow teacher, they mean a lot to me. I’ll think about how I can do some more of this sort of video since I enjoy it but never know what others might think.
I came from Elliot Brook's shoutout of you and I'm really excited by the prospect of a literature professor's take on fantasy booktube. This video was a great insight on the origins of my favorite genre, both as a writer and reader. Wishing you much success!
Miles Beining It’s great to hear from you, and I thank you for the kind words! I hope to hear your insights if you ever feel inspired to comment. In addition, I wish you much joy and success in your writing!
Philip Chase is one of the VERY few legitimate folk on RUclips who actually knows what he's talking about, conveys it with the nuance required, and understands the depth and breadth of fantasy's history and origins. Don't let his humility fool you. This guy is a real scholar, unlike most of the clueless idiots who talk about this subject with dogma and authority (which you see in both mainstream entertainment journalism and here on RUclips) who only spread misinformation and perpetuate falsehoods.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy You earned it! I don't read much modern fantasy (there are just too many great older works to get to), but your books are amongst the few I will.
Great to see a video giving attention to the late prose romances of William Morris as my own encounter with fantasy literature started with Morris, back in 1970 when I was an undergraduate, the very first being "The Water of the Wondrous Isles", followed by "The Well at the World's End" - I read these and Morris' other prose romances in hardcover as my university had a complete set of his Collected Works (this was just before Ballantine began publishing Morris in paperback). To this day these two tales remain my absolute favourite works of fantasy and I re-read them every few years. Birdalone from "The Water of the Wondrous Isles" and Ursula from "The Well at the World's End" are at the top of my list of most beloved literary characters. After I read those two books I went on to read most of Morris' prose romances, as well as "The Lord of the Rings". I came to very much enjoy Tolkien's work - over the years I have also re-read TLotR many times and read the books aloud to my children, but I have always been disappointed by the paucity of female characters in Tolkien.
@@RNMcKown William Morris is an author close to my heart as I wrote my dissertation about him, focusing mainly on his saga translations and Beowulf translations but also writing a chapter on the prose romances. I came to Morris through Tolkien and adore the stories of both, but I agree with you that Middle-Earth could have used more women. All the best!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Wow! I have read some of the academic work on Morris' late prose romances (Phillippa Bennett, Florence Boos, Thomas Drescher, Carole Silver, Lilla Smee, Anna Vaninskaya) but sadly it seems your dissertation isn't among those publicly posted. Back in 1973 I did a paper for a grad school course on "work and society" examining Morris' views on art and work. Regarding Morris' unique use of language in the prose romances, I believe that the best approach to appreciate the language is to read the text aloud. Having never been a "silent" reader (my wife says that my reading is not even "sub" vocal) I always found that the prose in Morris' prose romances to be rather poetic. I cannot remember who made the observation, but I recall reading that Morris' writing (like his book design) is to create something to be read slowly and savoured.
I'm also a big fan of William Morris. I'm glad he was mentioned in this video as he doesn't get enough credit for his contributions to the fantasy genre.
One of the main lines of fantasy that I enjoy is saga. It dates back to the myths. A hero sets off on a quest trip gathers friends as he goes and eventually wins his goal against the odds.
I haven’t read much fantasy yet (only a few foundational works) but I believe it’s important. Thanks for this video, it will help me in my future fantasy journey. I will be looking through your backlist to see what other aides I can find.
My guy, great video! You seem so knowledgeable about the genre and it's easy to see how passionate you are about fantasy. You honestly deserve way more subscribers. I can't imagine the amount of time you put into the research for this video. Also, I absolutely love the 10 different copies of Beowulf lmao.
xWursty Ha ha! I’m so glad you noticed all my copies of Beowulf! My day job (which I love) is being an English professor, and my area of interest is medieval literature, especially Old English. Thank you for watching and for your kind words- much appreciated!
I hope you consider making this a series. It was really informative. I never dove into the history of fantasy but I’ve always heard that Tolkien was one of the best at adding many different types of mythology and such to his work.
Joe's Review Journal Thank you! It was fun to make, so I’m considering doing more like it. Another viewer suggested doing more focused videos on each decade or era of development in fantasy, kind of a deeper dive. Could be fun! I’m grateful that you watched - always an honor to hear from you!
Philip Chase that’s a good idea. I think you’d crush that type of content. Of course, only do it if you think it’ll be fun to creat 🤙🏼 always good to talk to you my man
Wow! This one just popped up in my suggestion box. Great run down on the history of fantasy literature! It would take a much longer class, heck, even a whole semester to really delve into it. I would even like to re-examine the link the between mythical stories and fantasy stories. To me, they are all fantasy in one way or another whether the creator believed it was or not. The reason why modern fantasy authors can mine the depths of mythical literature is because it was already fantasy to begin with. Ha, just a theory of mine. I'm sure you've talked about this stuff more over the past two years, but I really enjoyed this and love thinking about this stuff. Cheers!
I'm glad you enjoyed this one, Jarrod! It's a video I'm glad I made because it was the first one viewed by a lot of people I know on BookTube now, including A.P. Canavan. You are right that there is so much more to say on this topic, and I'm sure there are some good books about it. Cheers!
"Brief tour". Good lord. That was quite a long history! Very informative. Impressive amount of information that must have taken a lot of time to research and pull together. It would be interesting to see some deep dives into subgenres of fantasy too, such as high fantasy, sword and sorcery, grimdark, etc. Their characteristics, who started that subgenre, writers in that subgenres, etc. Might make for a good side video series from your reviews. I'd also like some advice from you on poetry if you're at all into it. I'm looking to find some good poetry with a fantasy tilt to it to read once a while. Sometimes I like a read a good poem or two. Anyways, wonderful job with this one.
Thank you! Honestly, a lot of that information has been banging around in my head for years since I wrote my PhD dissertation about twenty years ago on William Morris. Speaking of William Morris, most of his work has not aged well, but he did write some Arthurian/medieval poems in a collection called The Defence of Guenevere and Other Poems when he was young, and these poems are actually far more appealing to a modern audience than the rest of his work. They tend to be short and vivid and often feature violence. Keats wrote a ballad called La Belle Dame Sans Merci. William Butler Yeats often used myth in his poems. Those are the ones that leap to mind. That's a great idea about the sub-genres! I'll have to think about which one I would do first. Great to hear from you, as always!
This is an excellent little lecture. I’ve been trying to work my way up to LOTR by reading earlier works first. I started with Morris’s Well At The Worlds End, then Eddison’s Worm Ouroboros, Peak’s Gormenghast etc. I gotta say, it’s a shame later authors have abandoned efforts tell their stories with their own form of archaic prose. I think that old-english style really puts an extra layer of paint on the strangeness of an imagined world. Shame it’s so out of fashion.
Thanks, Micah! One of my favorite essays on the topic of fantasy prose is Ursula Le Guin’s “From Elfland to Poughkeepsie,” which, if you don’t already know it, I think you’ll find interesting. I’ve done a video about that essay in case you’re curious, but it’s also not a long essay. Cheers!
Rohana Chase As you know, and it can’t be stated enough, history is important. Personally, I get more from a book if I explore the socio-cultural circumstances surrounding it. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great Video! I would really love to see a whole series on the history of fantasy as a literary genre, may be dedicating an episode per decade, diving deep into the authors, trends, titles, and what not! If there is any fantasy booktuber who could do it it's you, Philip Chase!
Vampire Nighthawk What an excellent idea! I’m definitely going to give that some thought. I think it would actually be fun to do all the research and everything. Thank you for proposing it, and thanks, as always, for watching and commenting - much appreciated!
Aha, found this! I love Morris' use of archaisms, it's good practice for me and it helps me expand on the list of archaisms I keep, currently at 1100+ in said list with much help from Tolkien and Morris.
I was just looking for some of your older stuff and stumbled across this great video. I hope one day you will do some reviews of some of the books you mentioned here. Dunsany, McDonald, Edison, Peake and especially T. H. White who is one of my absolute favorites. They are all soooo good. And a supplement to your remarks: Following on from the Brothers Grimm, one should definitely also take a look at the German Romantics, especially Novalis (Heinrich von Ofterdingen), Tieck (his art fairy tales), Fouque (Undine) and ETA Hoffmann (The Golden Pot), all of whom must be classified as fantastic literature and are still very much worth reading today. At least through Edgar Allan Poe have also developed their influence in the English-speaking world.
Have you ever read The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson? I ask for a few reasons. The first being I think it is a mostly forgotten work that inspired a lot more fantasy than most people would assume. It was published in 1954 (same year as The Fellowship of the Ring) and while it shares the same folklore influences they are literally night and day to one another. The Broken Sword is brutal and adult in ways you never see in the LotR. I think the closest modern comparison would be Wheel of Time to Game of Thrones. It is also one of those pillars of fantasy that was not influenced by The Lord of the Rings in any way. I look at it as a forking point in fantasy. You have The Lord of the Rings leading to things like Shannara and other Tolkien-esque works and then on the other side you have The Broken Sword leading to Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels and more experimental dark fantasy in the 60s and 70s like Karl Edward Wagner's Kane and so on. Tolkien used folklore in a cozy way with a sense of adventure like a fantasy version of H Rider Haggard(who was one of his influences as a boy) and made a meandering epic that shows you good vs evil and the power of friendship. Anderson takes the dark road and uses the same folklore to create a tragic, brutal, epic tale about the wickedness of man and the thirst for revenge. Anderson's elves are also shall we say "old school" elves. The kind that steal children. The other reason I bring it up is that, based on your education and interests, the 1954 version of The Broken Sword was literally written for you. He uses a lot of archaic words and mostly forgotten folklore from northern Europe to write a powerful dark fantasy epic unlike anything else published before or after. Anderson said as much when he "revised" the novel in 1972. He said he is not the same person that wrote that book back then. He could not write like that again. I know this video is almost 4 years old and with only 15 minutes or so you couldn't make a comprehensive history. I just felt that I would be remiss if I didn't mention one of my favorite books of all time, knowing that you too would enjoy it. This is a great video and a wonderful guide for all the fantasy lovers out there!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy If you ever seek out a copy I highly recommend the Fantasy Masterworks edition from Gollancz. It is the original 1954 edition. The 1972 edition replaced a lot of the more archaic words and changed a few things that I don't really agree with.
This is a great and approachable history of Western (read, European and Euro-descended) fantasy, but it's presented as if the Western European case is representative of ALL fantasy. It would be nice to see a less eurocentric approach (or at least to mention openly that you're only talking about the Western tradition).
Thanks for the feedback, Marle. I confess I know much more about older mythologies from around the world than I do about modern non-Western genre fantasy apart from the last twenty to thirty years, when the genre has exploded with stories from all over the world. It’s an exciting time for fantasy now.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Absolutely, and thanks for the response! I'm a literature scholar and fully understand the need to specialize / the impossibility of being familiar with everything. I think the video is excellent and wouldn't change anything about the content itself (I learned a fair few things as well) - it was more a suggestion about framing and clarifying that in this video, you're only talking about Western myth and fantasy, which is obviously still a huge topic. No one would expect you to describe the history of ALL fantasy in seventeen minutes (indeed - the term 'fantasy' doesn't even mean the same thing in other literary traditions, as I'm sure you know). Regardless, thanks for engaging constructively, and again, I really enjoyed the video!
@@marlesimms Honestly, a 17-minute video is woefully inadequate even just for Western fantasy, but as a very general gist of the genre in a Western context, it’s a decent stab at it, I think. Thanks again!
Thank you, I really appreciate the academic approach you took to discuss this topic while still keeping it fun- I learned a lot. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much for this video. I think you may have answered a question I have wondered about for a long time. I've been searching for the writer who first conceived of the concept of a fantasy world set in another world han ours (as opposed to a fiction time in our Earth's pre-history such as JRRT's Middle-earth or REH's Hyberboria). Would you say William Morris (whom I am unfamiliar with) can be credited as the first to create a fantasy world, independent of our Earth's pre-history?
I’d say Morris is a good candidate, especially if we’re talking about what I’ll call modern fantasy, as opposed to medieval literature or myth. George McDonald was earlier than William Morris, but his stories were more portal fantasy, I think.
Excellent video. I really enjoyed the detailed breakdown of these old stories in chronological order and how they went on to inspire Fantasy today. I think this one is one of your best videos yet!
The Serpent Thank you! It’s hard to know where you are if you don’t know where you’ve come from. I had fun with this one, and I’m happy you enjoyed it!
It is always a pleasure to learn from your videos, Philip. When you mentioned Morris and his work as a craftsman and the pictures you featured, it remembered me of a music album's cover by the singer Loreena McKennitt: "The mask and mirror", because of the medieval inspired themes that are often found in her songs.
GAUTAM CHAWLA Thank you! The TBR video will be in a couple weeks. My wife grabbed the Shiva Trilogy as soon as it arrived and already read the first book. She loved it, so I’m getting excited to read it!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That is really nice. The next series I will pick up will be Shatter Me and any series by Joe Abercrombie because I have not started any of his books and I have a lot to catch up since he is so good.
Thank you, Vic! I had a lot of fun making this one. My PhD dissertation was about William Morris (more about his saga translations than his fantasies, but I have a chapter on the latter too), so the early years of fantasy are a topic of great interest to me.
Great video. You should make a video on the work of Gabriel Garcia-Marquez and how fantastical elements and "magic realism" is a major component in a lot of Latin American literature.
An excellent point, Gabe! Magical realism is a very important element of both Latin American and South Asian fiction, among others, and it shares important elements with its cousins among other types of fantasy. Definitely an omission on my part!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Also worth to mention russian classic authors who are direct predecessors to magic realism: Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin, Nikolai Gogol and Michail Bulgakov (Master and Margarita). Marques sweared that he hadn't read Bulgakov before writing his 100 years and haven't influenced from Master and Margarita. From 19 century classics should mention german E.T. A.Hoffmann. Personally i'm big fan of Japanese Haruki Murakami and very entertaining russian Viktor Pelevin.
@@andrabeta1971 Excellent- thank you! I’ve read some of the great Russian writers (in translation, unfortunately) like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, but I could be much better read, so I appreciate you mentioning those authors. Russia has such an amazing literary tradition!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Wow, You replied to comments! Thank's! Glad that i found Your channel. I'll get here information of good fantasy to read. Don't want to waste time and spend money on 2nd and 3rd sort trash. Before engage to entertaining literature like fantasy, i like to see and read reviews of people i can trust, who know what literature is and haven't "read" before just comic books and watch Star Wars. I'm happy that i found Martin, Abercrombie and Sapkowsky. They are readable. Like Stevenson or Dumas of our time. What one can read when all classics are done and reread many times and Umberto Ecco is dead?. I'm sick of postmodernism and contrculture. Last thing: You better read M.Bulgakov's Master and Margarita. English translation is good. Book is serious and with good genuine russian humor what is very similar to english humor. Subscribed:)
@@andrabeta1971 Martin, Abercrombie, and Sapkowsky are all fantastic. I've read just about everything by the first two. I read the two short story collections in the Witcher series, and soon I'll start the first novel.
Thanks for this interesting and informative video. I love learning about how authors were influenced by the issues of their time, and how other authors were subsequently influenced by these works.
Francois Bouchart Yes, fantasy has a rich history, and while I know some people have written about it (I myself wrote my PhD dissertation on William Morris), it’s a topic that could use more exposure, I think. I also love learning about the relationships between authors and the important historical events and social trends of their time since I find that such study enriches my understanding of the literary works. Thanks, as always, for watching and commenting!
This is such a great video, I am subscribing! I am currently reading the Lord of the Rings and the Divine Comedy at the same time. It is amazing to see the similarities between Dante's Inferno and both Moria and Mordor. The way how Dante's demons and the Orcs behave is exactly the same! I did some research, and I fount out that Tolkien was part of the Oxford's Dante Society. It is trulz fascinating.
Thanks! I’m sure that Tolkien was intimately familiar with Dante’s work, and it’s pretty cool that you’re making those connections. Tolkien’s influences were broad, and he was incredibly well read. I love that his fiction is so grounded in so many outstanding classics.
Thanks Philip for this, this video helped me on this June 16, 2024 in becoming a fantasy series fan, i did initially think of it all as escapist, but not as drivel, i often would pine for the commitment required, and indeed am setting my first task to be a lofty one, to read The Wheel of Time before settling on another series, by finishing it i earn the right to spend money again, (spending problem history)
I just subscribed and watched this video first. I've not read that many Fantasy books and the ones that interest me (like Joe Abercrombie's) are not available in my local library. :( But I've read The Fellowship and recently finished The Two Towers, so this video was really interesting and informative. Thank you for your work, you were very eloquent and well-prepared! ^^
Thank you! I’m happy that you took something from the video, and I hope that your library will get more fantasy books in the future. My library has a service where they will order a book from another library if they don’t have it, and I’ve used that service a lot. I hope you’ll enjoy Return of the King and your other upcoming reads. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I've heard that it's the case in the US, but I don't think there's something like that here in Québec, Canada. Yes, you have a French-Canadian viewer now! :D They do have Fantasy books, just not the ones that seem to interest me (and I don't want to read their French translations because they've let me down so many times - as a translator myself it drives me crazy). I have my own LOTR copy though, that's not even a choice haha!
@@onfaerystories My maternal grandfather was Québécois, so it’s wonderful to have a subscriber from that part of the world. Being from northern Vermont originally, I’ve been to Montreal a number of times and to Quebec City once. I’m a big fan of our northern neighbor! I agree that every personal library should have a copy of LOTR if possible!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'd love to go to Vermont, it's so close to where I live (I live just a little bit outside of Montreal, grew up in Montreal though). Have you learned a bit of French? :P
@@onfaerystories Yes, I can read French well enough to have read a few novels. I’m not as good at speaking it or writing it (I wrote a few essays in French in college, but that was nearly 30 years ago), so I guess you could say my grasp of the language is somewhat passive. I love the language and would very much like to improve in it. You would likely be amused or shocked by the way people in northern Vermont pronounce the many French surnames there. My favorite is Charlesbois, which is butchered into “Charley-boys”. Ha ha! But Vermont is a very beautiful place.
This is such an informative video! Although this is a different angle than what you're discussing, I once wrote a paper in a music history class about how the Scientific Revolution influenced spiritual beliefs (concepts and theories of the unknown) and the classical style of music. The Romantic era then became a shift back into the unknown with much more explorative views and questions pervading science, spirituality, and art forms (can't help but think about Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique since you are discussing fantasy--I highly recommend if you aren't familiar with it). Then came the emergence of Darwinism and Wagner with his "Music of the Future," which is then followed by Debussy who called Wagner's music "a beautiful sunset mistaken for a dawn." Long tangent, but I am very curious to learn how past and present fantasy authors explore current trends in science and spiritual beliefs in conscious-and maybe sometimes unconscious-ways. I appreciate how you focused on the social and psychological applications in this video. I learned so much and appreciate how fantasy authors are taking us on journeys into new, contrasting perspectives. Truly fascinating.
Johanna Royo Thank you! I love the musical angle you brought up and think it offers some excellent insights. I’m a big fan of the Symphony Fantastique - I heard it live a couple years ago and won’t ever forget the experience. Trends in science and spiritual beliefs most definitely play a big role in both fantasy and science fiction. Sometimes the writer will make the concern explicit, sometimes less so, but it’s often an important part of the world building. It’s wonderful to read your comments- thanks so much!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you so much for your response! This might have been the longest comment I've ever left on a video. This topic clearly interests me. So glad you got to enjoy Symphony Fantastique live!
What a great video! As someone who loves fantasy as well as history, this was just the most enjoyable thing ever for me. Anyhow, I have been wanting to ask you something for some time now, so here goes: For my last year of high school, I have to write this really big thesis/essay (I don't know the English equivalent, but in Dutch it is called a 'Profielwerkstuk'). As a subject I, naturally, chose 'the fantasy genre'. Since you always come across so well-informed and you just love the fantasy genre, I was hoping I could maybe get your perspective on some things and some insights in being a college (literature) professor as well as a fantasy booktuber! So, would you maybe be open to me interviewing you about some fantasy related things? This could either be in written format (which would be easier for me, since I will have to write it all out in the end) of in video format, whatever you feel most comfortable with and works best for you! Sadly, I do have limited time because of deadlines, so if we could make this happen within about a month or so,that would be awesome! I would love to hear from you soon! In the meantime, keep doing you, I love all the content you are coming out with! Have a nice day! Esmay
Esmay Rosalyne First, thank you for watching and for your kind words! An interview on anything related to fantasy sounds like fun to me, and I would be delighted to be of help if I can for your thesis project. Since the written format would be easiest, you may contact me at the following email address: philipchase90@gmail.com I look forward to hearing from you!
Nice video and summary. I wonder why I never see Alice mentioned in discussions of early modern fantasy? Wonderland should qualify. I also think books like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court should count. And I would also mention the tremendous influence of Dungeons and Dragons on a whole generation of authors, which is at least as large as the shadow of Tolkien. (Forgotten Realms, Malazan, GRRM, Dragonlance, just to name a few).
duffypratt All excellent additions/suggestions. I shouldn’t have forgotten D&D since I played it in the 1980s myself! Alice in Wonderland is often included in fantasy lists, and I have no objection to that. A Wizard of Oz qualifies for similar reasons, as does A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s court. All are dream narratives with fantasy elements, I think, and each is important in itself. Great comments!
Nice video, I really hope that you do some chapters to this, because I'd love to hear your take on some of the authors mentioned in the early years of fantasy like Dunsany. Also, what is your opinion on the literary value of the pulp fantasy and horror authors? Keep em coming, Professor Chase.
Greekvvedge Thank you! I’ve read George McDonald and just about everything by William Morris (since I wrote my PhD dissertation on him), and I’ve read Eddison’s The Worm of Ouroboros. I’ve only read snippets of Dunsany, and these are usually presented to show how archaic and artificial his prose was. In that sense, not many of these late 19th and early 20th century fantasy authors have aged well, and I doubt they would be read much today except by a serious fan of the genre. In some ways, the pulp authors might have aged a bit better since they used more accessible prose, but my sense is they’re a niche thing too - well, they always were, but even more so now. For me, it’s all fun, and we can learn a lot from all of them. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
In terms of Pulp fiction Robert E. Howard was incredibly important regarding his contributions to fantasy specifically with worldbuilding and the Sword-and Sorcery subgenre.
You referenced this video in your Week That Was this morning so I figured I'd check it out! I enjoyed it, as well as the brief chat you had with AP in the comments below! I am curious that when you taught (or still do teach) your course on Fantasy novels if you started with MacDonald, or referenced those early authors and started with Tolkien?
Thanks for checking this one out, Josh! In the fantasy novels course, the earliest author I've started with is Tolkien. I wrote my dissertation on William Morris, though, and there is a chapter on his "prose romances" (fantasy) from the 1890s. I do give my students a brief history, though, and definitely mention George MacDonald. Cheers!
fantasy is the reason i prefer english literature, i always wondered why fantasy was developed so much in english, when you mentioned the industrial revolution it finally clicked in my head. but still, i wonder why it didn't have as amazing as a "boom" in other languages/cultures (there are very few exceptions)
That’s actually a very interesting question to explore. I do think the reaction to industrialization is a big part of the answer, and perhaps also a feeling among the English that Tolkien himself expressed: the loss of their native mythology. We have Beowulf in Old English, but nothing like the body of literature that exists in Old Norse in the Eddas and sagas.
Really enjoyed this video! I am curious about your opinion on the relationship between fantasy and religion. In my mind, the influence is seemingly twofold: (1) fantasy series often have their own gods/religions/cults (2) many plotlines or figures in fantasy parallel those found in religious texts (Gandalf and Coltaine come to mind in connection with Judeochristianity). How would you discern the influence of ancient tale vs. religion in fantasy?
Patrick Mullen That’s an awesome question, and it deserves a whole book or two to answer it. To me, much of the best fantasy uses the history of our world as a jumping off point, and that applies to religion. There are some fantasies where there’s something recognizably like some stage of an existing religion (Tad Williams’ Memory, Sorrow, Thorn comes to mind at the moment, where the dominant religion highly resembles Christianity in some respects). Others take inspiration from what we today call myth (though its practitioners thought of it as a religion), such as the Malazan books with all those gods and ascendants that remind one of the best stories in classical myth, where the gods are always competing against each other and manipulating people. As an aside, my sense is that many of us who are drawn to myths or philosophy or religion also seem to have a natural love for fantasy, and that’s no coincidence. Fantasy serves the same psychological needs that the others do, in my opinion, and the lines between them all are quite blurry. I’m not sure I answered your question at all, but my mind went in a hundred different and interesting directions when I read your comment. Thank you!
I have a friend whose opinion of not only fantasy but fiction in general is quite low. He only reads historical or political accounts and biographies with some, what I to his chagrin would call, esoteric spiritual self-help books in between. While I do acknowledge the biographies of important historical figures as a worthy read, I read all three available Monty Python bios after all, I can't get behind everything else. When I read historical books, I can't help but think about the biases that went into it, from history being written by the victors up to educated guesses as to what somebody's thought processes and inspirations might have been. While on the other hand my argument toward fictional works is always the social and political values and lessons portrayed, with motives and situations, while totally made up, still in a certain sense less of an 'opinion'. The best books to me, are the ones that make me empathise with all sides of a conflict, and show the nuances in beliefs, which I think would help a lot of people who in recent years seem to fight every issue on a binary black and white field. I believe I learned more about the hopes and fears occupying a 16th century (noble man's) mind by reading the fictional 'Utopia' by Sir Thomas More than I would ever have from some historical account.
Lothar Freitag You have an excellent point! In a sense, fantasy is more honest than history if the latter pretends to be completely accurate. In my experience, the best historians, like the best scientists, acknowledge with a healthy humility that the received knowledge of today in their field could be tomorrow’s debunked theory with new knowledge. Fantasy, on the other hand, is totally free from the burden of literal truth, making it one of the most creative forms of writing and highly sustaining for the human imagination. I like history as a discipline and have read a good amount of it, but I totally agree with you about the biases that tend to influence our interpretations of events. I’ve even studied the history of history, and what serious historians used to think a hundred years ago can vary in important respects from what they think today. Excellent thoughts - thank you for those insights!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy You are of course right about (most) professionals being very aware of assumptions and biases in their respective fields. Most will also take care to phrase their papers accordingly, but once they get cited in magazines or documentaries that degree of uncertainty gets lost on most consumers. And while I am probably overly sceptic I pessimistically assume most are not. I am very intrigued by the notion of history of history, you wouldn't happen to have some recommendations on that subject? A month until university starts, still time for a little extracurricular reading.
Lothar Freitag I agree with you that much nuance is lost in translation when the findings of experts are reported to the public in general, and that probably most people lack the time and/or inclination to investigate enough for a truly informed opinion. It’s been about twenty years since I wrote my PhD dissertation on William Morris. Part of that dissertation was looking at how 18th and 19th century English historians (who borrowed a lot from German speaking historians, by the way) presented an idealized version of their Anglo-Saxon and medieval ancestors. They had political ideals that influenced and even skewed their interpretations of history, and though it’s fairly easy for modern historians to recognize this bias, practically no one questioned it in the time in which the historians lived. In that way, I read a lot of really bad history, but I learned a lot about the ideals and motives of the historians and about the time in which they lived. I read a few of them, but E.A. Freeman is one I remember pretty well. Of course, history was a younger discipline in those days, but I’m confident that future historians will find problems with the interpretations of current ones.
First of all, I enjoyed this breakdown of early fantasy history very much. I wonder what your thoughts are on what is inhibiting Fantasy as a medium from being taken seriously amongst other "hard" fiction? Is the hurdle of it being inherently make believe too great for a novel to break into the "high art" category? The closest we get in most high schools is magical realism, like Rushdie's 'Midnight's Children' or Marquez. Not that it really matters, just curious what you think as a student/teacher of the genre.
There’s definitely some snobbery toward any “genre fiction,” but academia is actually waking up a bit, I think. These days, there’s a healthy amount of doctoral level work being done among people pursuing Cultural Studies, and a lot of medievalists like me have long studied fantasy. So, that’s the good news. That said, you can still find appalling ignorance in academic circles of just how excellent fantasy can be (and, as in any other genre, a lot of fantasy is awful too). I think it boils down to ignorance and old fashioned snobbery, and some people just like pretending they’re smarter than everyone else, so it makes them feel good to disparage something. Not the most illuminating answer, but I don’t think it’s more complicated than that. Thanks for watching!
Thanks, Maximas! Chaucer contributed to the revival of English as a respectable literary language, one of several great accomplishments. And that truly does reflect the power of storytelling!
NotcarlXD42eii o's To be honest, I consider myself a relatively slow reader because I’m always stopping to admire a sentence or, when reading fantasy, flipping back to the map to see where the characters are. The advantage of taking my time is that I tend to absorb what I read and remember it pretty well. I wish I knew how to read fast and still absorb as much, but I’m kind of skeptical of people who claim they know how to read at lightning speed. Long way of saying, “I have no idea,” but I like the question!
All you have to know is that it's totally okay to be a slow reader. If anything, that's better. It means you're likely taking more from a single book than those who read ten books in a week. My advice is to just embrace it. Reading ten pages, or one or two chapters a day is all good, my man.
@@estebanr457 I know the feeling. Even before I started making RUclips videos, I used to think about how I could read more. With the self-imposed pressure of making videos, it's an even more pressing issue. But I think Jarl Trippin' has a point -- I'm going to accept what I can do, make informed choices about what I'm going to read next, and enjoy it as much as possible. Happy reading!
So Don Quixote was published in 1605 and in it the main character is said to have read so many stories about knights and sorcerers to the point that he basically decides to cosplay for life as a knight errant. I always wondered if the fantasy genre was not already a thing by 1605. What are these books he’s reading? Are they just folktales? Were they specifically penned by individuals and marketed for those interested in the genre. Yes, Don Quixote is a comedy spoofing a time period of writing that we’re probably not very aware of, much like the movie Airplane! spoofed and outlived the airplane disaster movies that it used as source material. I just wonder if there is a kind of lost birth date to fantasy fiction that started before the romantic era that academics seem to have planted their flag in. Again I say this because Cervantes states rather matter of factly that there was a large quantity of poorly written material about swords and sorcery available for Don Quixote to glut and addle his brain with. When there’s that much material available it sounds like a well establish genre to me.
Very interesting insight, there! Yes, Cervantes had to react to something, perhaps the pulp fiction of his day. I would say that the medieval romances from which these stories are descended contain many fantastical elements, and one could call them fantasy in a broad sense without too much controversy. Thanks for the wonderful comment!
Thank you for the video! It was really inspiring to hear about the history of fantasy because lately, I have been trying to understand what the fantasy genre even is... I'm worldbuilding for worldbuilding's sake, without a very clear goal of ever writing a story or publishing anything. However, I've been struggling with the question of why do I even do it? For some reason, I just have to. And this makes me think that the world I create should perhaps be able to support a fantasy story if I ever decide to write one. The thing is, I have been avoiding all the clearly fantastical elements (magic, fantasy races and creatures) and have just created a fantasy world with its kingdoms, cultures, histories, pantheons etc. The world has its mysteries, of course, but they are analogic to the mysteries of our world (or of my life). Is this fantasy? Or more importantly, would anyone care to read fantasy without fantasy? Anyway, I still don't have the answers, but your video somehow made it easier for me to consider including something fantastical.
I enjoyed reading your comment very much! Doing a lot of world building can be enjoyable for its own sake, but there’s plenty of precedent for fantasy authors doing that before writing their novels set in those worlds. Tolkien comes to mind. So do Erikson and Esslemont, who created the Malazan world by gaming before writing any books. So, if you ever decide to write a novel, you’ll have a rich world in which to set it. That’s a wonderful thing! In the meantime, I wish you much fulfillment with your world building. Cheers!
Love these kind of deep dives and lectures! It is rather silly that fantasy hasn't been taken seriously by critics for a long time, indeed a lack of imagination on their part. Both Literature and fantasy spring from the mind of imaginative humans, use the same languages, and can deal with exactly the same themes. One just uses meaning imparted on the colors or textures of mostly objects like curtains or clouds, where the other uses any shape or being the creator can come up with. Part of it is because fairy tales changed into just fun little stories for little children - is Disney most to blame for this? Originally these tales were cautionary and actually quite grim (😏), as well as fantastical. This devolved into thinking any story featuring elves and goblins, witches and magic etc must just be for kids. Meanwhile older sources for fantastical stories were still worthy of study, like the Greek myths, the Edda and even Shakespeare and Dante.
Rob Paul Well said, as always! You’re quite right about the evolution of fairy tales and how they were relegated to kids. Regarding serious scholarship on fantasy, it’s definitely sparse, but there are some wonderful exceptions. Tolkien has been better served than most, and one of my favorite Tolkien scholars is Tom Shippey. Harry Potter has a fair amount of critical literature. But there’s not a ton. My own dissertation was on William Morris, with one chapter dedicated to his “prose romances” (fantasies). Don’t look for it on the New York Times bestseller list either!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Makes me wonder.. what does it take to be taken seriously by academic circles as an author? Tolkien and Morris seem to have had a lasting influence on a genre or literature as a whole, with a broad audience and decades of emulation to research. Rowling was a weird phenomenon with unquestionable broad immediate influence and likely for years to come - but relatively recent. A sign of changes in academia, or simply a case of 'follow the money'?
Rob Paul It’s likely both. Of course, there have long been individuals within academic circles who are less snobby about these things. Pop culture studies is a thing now too. But, in the main, even in literature departments, many perceive you as less serious if you’re exploring something like fantasy. I’m reminded of how Tolkien’s fellow academics regarded his “hobby”, and even Tolkien, who was a great scholar and author of critical essays that are still important, seemed a bit embarrassed at times about his popularity.
I can't believe that people just dismiss fantasy as "chicken-head stories" as they are only what the human brains biggest though function is: Imagination.
Deep characters are great! I’m not sure what you mean by challenging technique - perhaps an unconventional narrative style is an example? Regardless, those are also great criteria for assessing literature.
Saying that ancient stories required some amount of belief just isn't true. Many seemed to serve no other purpose beyond enforcing a moral or even just being entertainment, the same as modern stories.
Great point, Abb! While there might have been widespread (not universal) belief in myths, many old stories were more entertaining, with folktales perhaps belonging more in the latter category. The line between myths and folktales is also difficult, perhaps impossible, to draw. For the most part, no one “believes” in modern fantasy, though there is at least one religion founded on a science fiction author’s ideas, so perhaps the line there is blurry too. Thanks for the comment!
I just read When Books Went to War by Molly Guptill Manning. It's about the Armed Services Editions of books that were distributed to soldiers during WW2. It didn't mention fantasy being part of the book rations. Now I'm curious why The Lord of the Rings wasn't one of the ASEs. Was it considered unsuitable or could they not get the copyright? It surely would have been a good soldierly read.
Tolkien was writing LOTR in part during WWII, but it wasn’t published until 1954. But I agree wholeheartedly that fantasy in general and LOTR in particular would have been excellent choices for soldiers. Cheers!
I think it might have something to do with the Industrial Revolution beginning with the British. Dislocation, urbanization, and the ugliness of the modern world created a longing for an idealized past and other worlds untouched by such things. Perhaps that’s part of it, but it’s no accident that many feel fantasy as a modern genre really begins in the 19th century.
What a wonderful answer! That sounds totally correct. The suddenness of the contrast of the new and the old. The one I can never work out is why the Brits were so great at rock and pop compared to the rest of Europe. Do let me know if you know the answer to that one too!
I don't think anyone can! Maybe the two are linked in some way. Like how in the industrial revolution everyone was crammed into back to back terrace housing and the pub became a great focus and escape, and that paved the way for local bands looking for foreign influences to replace the abandoned folk tradition. I shall ponder!
When it comes to Prophet's view on fantasy there are two branches of it really western fantasy like Lord of the Rings, Conan the Barbarian, and Elric of Melnibone. Then you have eastern fantasies like Journey to the West, The Investiture of the Gods, and other Gods and Demons fiction as well. The Prophet isn't saying Conan and LOTR are part of the same genre only of the same cultural background that being the western world.
Super interesting! I'm curious, with Morris's obscure language choices, who do you believe he thought his audience was? Who would have put up with (or been intrigued by) his language choices?
Josh5now That’s an excellent question! My initial reaction is to conjecture that Morris wrote what was in his heart, which is to say a world in which he could put forward his ideals of communalism, beauty, and honest craftsmanship. The irony of Morris is that, in spite of his socialist ideals, he made such beautiful and labor intensive things that only the wealthy could afford his products. He was in some ways a dreamer who was full of contradictions, but he was aware of these contradictions too. He once expressed to a wealthy client that he was frustrated at catering to “the swinish luxuries of the rich.” So, I think his fantasies were an expression of his ideals, which were in large part based on an idealized version of the medieval world. He wanted to create this idealized medieval world, and part of that creation was its language. While less extreme, many (most?) fantasy authors have followed his example, using, to some degree or other, an archaic language in their prose. Tolkien is an obvious example, but so is George R.R. Martin. This archaic language is part of what convinces readers that the world they’re immersing themselves in is not our world. If a fantasy writer’s prose is too modern, the illusion is broken. If it’s too archaic, then the story becomes inaccessible. So, there’s an ideal balance there somewhere, and Morris fell far on the archaic side. Ursula Le Guin wrote an essay on this topic of fantasy language called “From Elfland to Poughkeepsie” - a very good read. So, that’s a long answer. The short answer is I don’t think Morris thought much about his audience- he wanted to create beautiful things.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That's great insight, thanks! I feel like that's still a very valid drive for some fantasy authors today, to create their idea of an ideal world through their writing. They've just thankfully learned how to make their writing more approachable, though no less idealized
In my reading some have included works as far back as Le Morte d'Arthus and The Faerie Queene as origins in the 16th century. I wonder how influenced Tolkien was by both of these. Aragorn = Arthur...
Larry Laderoute Great points! There’s a good argument for counting Arthurian material as fantasy, but I personally see it as more on the level of myth and legend, where people telling the tales see them as history, however embellished. Geoffrey of Monmouth, for example, presents The History of the Kings of Britain as historical. I suspect that even as late as Thomas Malory’s time (the 15th century), people still though of the Arthurian material as real. Tolkien did have some things to say of Arthurian material, and he even translated Sir Gawain and the Green Knight from Middle English. However, I think he would have asserted that his Middle-Earth owed more to Germanic sources than Celtic. I’m fairly certain he’s actually written or spoken on the matter. Of course, you could argue that Aragorn and Arthur both stem from the same archetype of the king in waiting destined to save and renew the realm. Great comments - thank you!
I have to ask, but do you teach? You do a great way of discussing topics and teaching at the same moment. I know you're a dad, so that means you teach in my opinion the best/most impactful way, but do you do it as a career in any capacity? Hope you don't mind me asking, just always feel to tell people when I see potential. Lord knows we as a species should do more of that. Ps: I love your Buddha statues. As someone with a great deal of respect for the 'path' I think it's cool when others explore it too!
Jay Thank you for the kind words! I am indeed a teacher - a professor of English, in fact, with a specialty in medieval literature. I also teach a course about fantasy novels that I designed, among other things. It’s a very rewarding career.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy , that is fantastic to hear. I took all the electives I could in college within topics such as what you teach. If you don't mind me asking, but what fantasy books and/or stories do you have your class read/discuss? Do you speak on the Heroes journey? That was when my mind was opened up.
Jay Yes, we do discuss the hero’s journey, and I specifically talk about Joseph Campbell’s take on that. In recent years, the class has read books like The Hobbit, A Wizard of Earthsea, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone (Philosopher’s Stone if you’re from outside the United States), A Game of Thrones, American Gods, The Name of the Wind, and The Fifth Season. I try to change it up from time to time as there are so many great books to choose from.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy , I would take your class for fun if possible. That is fantastic. So glad to hear of such opportunities. I adore Campbell. He opened my mind to an amazing perspective with storytelling. I have his book by my bed tabbed and written all over with notes by my bed so I can marvel at the genius of some of today's writers by referencing his diverse concepts with story. I adore reading fantasy and I adore stand up comedy and I'm blessed to live in the golden age for both.
Jay Campbell really opened my mind too at a crucial time, when I was 17 or 18 years old. I agree about this being an excellent time for fantasy. I know less about standup, but that’s really cool too!
Two things I don't agree with regarding this overall all-encompassing history discussion. 1) Myth did not become all of a sudden the province of kids with the enlightenment. Perhaps some myth was but the oldest myths of Greece and Rome continued to be taken seriously by intellectual movements and circles for at least until the 1900's. The neoclassical art movement of David and discussion and incorporation of symbols and allusions to myth by our founding fathers are two examples. Religion and politics were strengthened by comparison to moral tales and metaphors from these tales by leading intellectuals and popular discussion. 2) People talk about Terry Brooks sparking interest of the genre in the 80's but I wonder at the truth in that. Dungeons and Dragons was a popular force that got people into fantasy in the 70's and 80's so much that it was controversial and covered by the New York Times as early as 84. It had itself been influenced by Vance, Moorcock, Lieber, Howard, and Tolkien probably.
Masood Voon Excellent points! I completely agree about D&D (having played it in the 1980s myself!). Also, of course the evolving reception of myth is a complicated matter, and you’re right that classical myths remained “respectable” when read in a certain way (though in a way much different from how the original tellers likely intended). They were part of a classical tradition, but even within that tradition there was a clear hierarchy that privileged the philosophers over the storytellers - let’s not forget what Plato thought of Homer (not a high opinion), and those with a classical education in the Enlightenment probably felt similarly. Great to hear from you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I don't agree. Plato didn't not like Homer he felt that it was dangerous to portray gods as fickle as much as they were embodiments of universal values. In many ways those of Plato's age (and later) were the storytellers and the philosophers both. Sophocles plays, Ovid's metamorphoses, had unique recasting of myths that have been universally adopted as complex allegories both then and now. The French Revolution itself was partially inspired by these myths, a force of change from an era of entitled serfholders and global dynasties to that of people looking after their own interests and welfare. Consider how myths were used to explain morality and adavancement of man's society such as the Oath of Horatii which describe patriotism and self-sacrificel or Oedipus and the Sphinx which describe the triumph of intelligence over the natural world or control of one's destiny.
Masood Voon My understanding is that Plato called poets like Homer, whom he specifically names, liars for their stories, and he would have banished poets from his Republic. Tell me if I’ve got that wrong - it’s been well over a decade since I read Plato’s Republic. The allegorical interpretations that later philosophers and intellectuals during the Enlightenment applied to the old myths are interesting and speak of respect for the old stories, but I doubt people in Homer’s day understood those stories the same way (I have no way of proving that). Either way, I agree with you that classical myths enjoyed some level of respect from many during the Enlightenment, so your main point is valid.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy welcome sir! Could you suggest some books on the history and evolution of the fantasy literature? Where shall i access more sources and materials on this and the sub-genres as well on shadow hunters and allomancers?
Very interesting. I've never heard of most of the pre-Tolkien stuff you talked about. I gather a lot of it is probably quite difficult to get into, are there any pre-Tolkien books you'd recommend to a lover of modern fantasy such as myself?
Guilbert Maric If I’m being completely honest, I must admit that your suspicion is correct: the pre-Tolkien stuff would be hard for most readers of modern fantasy to get into. There are a couple issues. One is the language. Many or most of these writers used a pseudo-medieval language that was archaic even for their contemporaries. Another is character. Today, most fantasy readers look for well developed characters that drive the story. The older fantasies tend to have flat characters who all speak the same archaic language. That said, I’ve spent some time reading some of the oldies, and there is some beautiful description to be found as well as some interesting themes.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy interesting. Honestly if there wasn't such a huge wealth of modern fantasy these days I might more consider it but I'm not sure i wanna spend the time persevering with these stuff when I could be enjoying so many other stories!
Gilgamesh is even older, I think! But, yes, point taken. In the grand scheme, the predominant form of storytelling has been “fantasy” in the form of myths and legends.
Great question! The word "fantasy" wasn't being applied to any fiction in the 1860s, and I don't think there was much fantasy then either as I've defined it. Also, it's important to keep in mind that we're talking about the average literate person since, in the 1860s, the literacy rate was probably around 75% (I'm guessing, and it would have varied a lot by race, gender, age, and demographics (urban vs. rural)). That said, there were certainly gothic tales around, such as Washington Irving's The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, or just about anything by Edgar Allen Poe. That's about as close as it gets in the 1860s in America, I'd say, though some people here in the US might have been reading George McDonald (Phantastes was published in the UK in the 1850s). And, of course, there were the old folktales, but I would not define those strictly as fantasy. I hope that helps, and thanks for watching!
It was impossible to mention in the space of this video all the fantasy authors who deserve to be mentioned in an account of the genre. Which authors would you mention?
Philip Chase I would be curious to hear your thoughts on where Anne Rice’s works fit in the development of fantasy.
I know Anne Rice is famous for The Vampire Chronicles, but that's a gap in my reading, to be honest. Since I haven't read it yet, I could be wrong, but would you categorize her books as Gothic fiction or horror? Of course, the line between fantasy and horror is a complete blur, and both have connections to Gothic fiction. Anyway, I should certainly check out Anne Rice's books!
Anne Rice definitely is gothic fiction to me - and most of her work is well worth reading. She's great at romanticizing the dark, dangerous creatures of gothic horror like ghosts, witches and vampires. Although the vampire chronicles lost my interest after book four or five, the first ones are great. As is the Witching Hour series and Servant of the Bones .
Rob Paul Good to know! Now I just need to find the time to branch out some more. A serious question: Is there a genre you’re not well read in? It’s always fantastic to read your take because it’s so well informed!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
Aw thanks 😊 I wouldn't consider myself well read in most genres, except maybe fantasy - even there are glaring gaps.. Like you say, time is such an annoying issue.
But I have read a bit of most genres as my interests are quite broad.
Listening to you talk about fantasy makes me reaffirm why I love it so much. I love the part when you say fantasy is about "nurturing the imagination", and "what could be more human than the capacity to imagine?"
I've felt that on an almost instinctual level ever since I read Tolkien as a kid. I think he was the author who baptized my imagination.
Man, I really hope this channel blows up. You're so insightful.
Jarl Trippin' Thank you very much! I’d love to blow up (I mean the channel), but I’m also having a great time as it is since I get to interact with cool people about fantasy. I appreciate you watching and commenting!
POV: an alumnus who loved Prof Chase 5 years ago and randomly finds him on yt...
So happy to see you here and your content is wonderful!
Hey, Steve! Great to see you here! I hope you’re doing great. I’ve been doing the RUclips thing for just over a year now, and it’s a ton of fun. You know my email address if you want to catch up!
I read Tolkien's masterpiece in 1973, age 12 (in Dutch). It awakened my love for fantasy, so the next few years I read nothing but - in English. The Ballantine Adult Fantasy Series, edited by Lin Carter, revived lots of forgotten fantasy authors, like Morris, Eddison, Cabell, Dunsany... The study that became my Bible then, was Lin Carter's Imaginary Worlds, in which he did the same as this video: lay bare the roots and history of the fantasy genre (and a lot more). Recommended!
Thank you so much for the recommendation! I will most certainly check out Lin Carter's Imaginary Worlds, which I have not yet read. I was very small in 1973, so I would have to wait a few years to read Tolkien, but you read The Lord of the Rings in the last year of his life (Not to be morbid about it, but I've always sort of wished I had been old enough to read Tolkien's books when he was alive, and I used to imagine meeting the man. I had a professor who met him and C.S. Lewis at Oxford, and he used to speak of them sometimes, but that's another story). Thanks for watching and commenting -- much appreciated!
What an awesome treatise this was. I have to talk about the definition of myth and what not in my classes when we do mythology. So cool to see the genre's evolution past what I knew it to be. Please do more videos like this, Professor!
The Library of Allenxandria Thank you for the kind words. Coming from a fellow teacher, they mean a lot to me. I’ll think about how I can do some more of this sort of video since I enjoy it but never know what others might think.
I really enjoyed it as well. I would love more along this line.
I came from Elliot Brook's shoutout of you and I'm really excited by the prospect of a literature professor's take on fantasy booktube. This video was a great insight on the origins of my favorite genre, both as a writer and reader. Wishing you much success!
Miles Beining It’s great to hear from you, and I thank you for the kind words! I hope to hear your insights if you ever feel inspired to comment. In addition, I wish you much joy and success in your writing!
Philip Chase is one of the VERY few legitimate folk on RUclips who actually knows what he's talking about, conveys it with the nuance required, and understands the depth and breadth of fantasy's history and origins. Don't let his humility fool you. This guy is a real scholar, unlike most of the clueless idiots who talk about this subject with dogma and authority (which you see in both mainstream entertainment journalism and here on RUclips) who only spread misinformation and perpetuate falsehoods.
@@thesithempire1348 You are very kind! Thank you for watching and for supporting what I do here on RUclips!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy You earned it! I don't read much modern fantasy (there are just too many great older works to get to), but your books are amongst the few I will.
@ I deeply appreciate you including The Edan Trilogy in your potential reading plans!
Great to see a video giving attention to the late prose romances of William Morris as my own encounter with fantasy literature started with Morris, back in 1970 when I was an undergraduate, the very first being "The Water of the Wondrous Isles", followed by "The Well at the World's End" - I read these and Morris' other prose romances in hardcover as my university had a complete set of his Collected Works (this was just before Ballantine began publishing Morris in paperback). To this day these two tales remain my absolute favourite works of fantasy and I re-read them every few years. Birdalone from "The Water of the Wondrous Isles" and Ursula from "The Well at the World's End" are at the top of my list of most beloved literary characters. After I read those two books I went on to read most of Morris' prose romances, as well as "The Lord of the Rings". I came to very much enjoy Tolkien's work - over the years I have also re-read TLotR many times and read the books aloud to my children, but I have always been disappointed by the paucity of female characters in Tolkien.
@@RNMcKown William Morris is an author close to my heart as I wrote my dissertation about him, focusing mainly on his saga translations and Beowulf translations but also writing a chapter on the prose romances. I came to Morris through Tolkien and adore the stories of both, but I agree with you that Middle-Earth could have used more women. All the best!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Wow! I have read some of the academic work on Morris' late prose romances (Phillippa Bennett, Florence Boos, Thomas Drescher, Carole Silver, Lilla Smee, Anna Vaninskaya) but sadly it seems your dissertation isn't among those publicly posted. Back in 1973 I did a paper for a grad school course on "work and society" examining Morris' views on art and work.
Regarding Morris' unique use of language in the prose romances, I believe that the best approach to appreciate the language is to read the text aloud. Having never been a "silent" reader (my wife says that my reading is not even "sub" vocal) I always found that the prose in Morris' prose romances to be rather poetic. I cannot remember who made the observation, but I recall reading that Morris' writing (like his book design) is to create something to be read slowly and savoured.
@@RNMcKown Well said! Morris was certainly a poet at heart.
I'm also a big fan of William Morris. I'm glad he was mentioned in this video as he doesn't get enough credit for his contributions to the fantasy genre.
One of the main lines of fantasy that I enjoy is saga. It dates back to the myths. A hero sets off on a quest trip gathers friends as he goes and eventually wins his goal against the odds.
Definitely a favorite of mine too, Don, and a rich vein of fantasy!
I love your deep analysis of the Fantasy genre!! Super informative but entertaining as well ☺️
Navi Sahota Thank you! I appreciate the encouraging words very much!
I haven’t read much fantasy yet (only a few foundational works) but I believe it’s important. Thanks for this video, it will help me in my future fantasy journey. I will be looking through your backlist to see what other aides I can find.
Thank you for watching, and my best wishes to you for your reading!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasythank you very much
My guy, great video! You seem so knowledgeable about the genre and it's easy to see how passionate you are about fantasy. You honestly deserve way more subscribers. I can't imagine the amount of time you put into the research for this video. Also, I absolutely love the 10 different copies of Beowulf lmao.
xWursty Ha ha! I’m so glad you noticed all my copies of Beowulf! My day job (which I love) is being an English professor, and my area of interest is medieval literature, especially Old English. Thank you for watching and for your kind words- much appreciated!
I hope you consider making this a series. It was really informative. I never dove into the history of fantasy but I’ve always heard that Tolkien was one of the best at adding many different types of mythology and such to his work.
Joe's Review Journal Thank you! It was fun to make, so I’m considering doing more like it. Another viewer suggested doing more focused videos on each decade or era of development in fantasy, kind of a deeper dive. Could be fun! I’m grateful that you watched - always an honor to hear from you!
Philip Chase that’s a good idea. I think you’d crush that type of content. Of course, only do it if you think it’ll be fun to creat 🤙🏼 always good to talk to you my man
Just stumbled upon this channel and have watched a few videos now. Keep up the great work you have rapidly become one of my favourite youtubers.
Anon Thanks so much! It’s great to hear from you, and I deeply appreciate the encouragement.
This is a great video. You are wonderful at create concise and engaging conversation!
Thank you for your kind words!
Wow! This one just popped up in my suggestion box. Great run down on the history of fantasy literature! It would take a much longer class, heck, even a whole semester to really delve into it. I would even like to re-examine the link the between mythical stories and fantasy stories. To me, they are all fantasy in one way or another whether the creator believed it was or not. The reason why modern fantasy authors can mine the depths of mythical literature is because it was already fantasy to begin with. Ha, just a theory of mine. I'm sure you've talked about this stuff more over the past two years, but I really enjoyed this and love thinking about this stuff. Cheers!
I'm glad you enjoyed this one, Jarrod! It's a video I'm glad I made because it was the first one viewed by a lot of people I know on BookTube now, including A.P. Canavan. You are right that there is so much more to say on this topic, and I'm sure there are some good books about it. Cheers!
"Brief tour". Good lord. That was quite a long history! Very informative. Impressive amount of information that must have taken a lot of time to research and pull together. It would be interesting to see some deep dives into subgenres of fantasy too, such as high fantasy, sword and sorcery, grimdark, etc. Their characteristics, who started that subgenre, writers in that subgenres, etc. Might make for a good side video series from your reviews. I'd also like some advice from you on poetry if you're at all into it. I'm looking to find some good poetry with a fantasy tilt to it to read once a while. Sometimes I like a read a good poem or two. Anyways, wonderful job with this one.
Thank you! Honestly, a lot of that information has been banging around in my head for years since I wrote my PhD dissertation about twenty years ago on William Morris. Speaking of William Morris, most of his work has not aged well, but he did write some Arthurian/medieval poems in a collection called The Defence of Guenevere and Other Poems when he was young, and these poems are actually far more appealing to a modern audience than the rest of his work. They tend to be short and vivid and often feature violence. Keats wrote a ballad called La Belle Dame Sans Merci. William Butler Yeats often used myth in his poems. Those are the ones that leap to mind. That's a great idea about the sub-genres! I'll have to think about which one I would do first.
Great to hear from you, as always!
This is an excellent little lecture. I’ve been trying to work my way up to LOTR by reading earlier works first. I started with Morris’s Well At The Worlds End, then Eddison’s Worm Ouroboros, Peak’s Gormenghast etc. I gotta say, it’s a shame later authors have abandoned efforts tell their stories with their own form of archaic prose. I think that old-english style really puts an extra layer of paint on the strangeness of an imagined world. Shame it’s so out of fashion.
Thanks, Micah! One of my favorite essays on the topic of fantasy prose is Ursula Le Guin’s “From Elfland to Poughkeepsie,” which, if you don’t already know it, I think you’ll find interesting. I’ve done a video about that essay in case you’re curious, but it’s also not a long essay. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I certainly will!
very interesting historical analysis of the development of the genre, in tandem with sociocultural history !!
Rohana Chase As you know, and it can’t be stated enough, history is important. Personally, I get more from a book if I explore the socio-cultural circumstances surrounding it. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great Video! I would really love to see a whole series on the history of fantasy as a literary genre, may be dedicating an episode per decade, diving deep into the authors, trends, titles, and what not! If there is any fantasy booktuber who could do it it's you, Philip Chase!
Vampire Nighthawk What an excellent idea! I’m definitely going to give that some thought. I think it would actually be fun to do all the research and everything. Thank you for proposing it, and thanks, as always, for watching and commenting - much appreciated!
Aha, found this! I love Morris' use of archaisms, it's good practice for me and it helps me expand on the list of archaisms I keep, currently at 1100+ in said list with much help from Tolkien and Morris.
Ah, you’re a reader after my own heart!
I was just looking for some of your older stuff and stumbled across this great video. I hope one day you will do some reviews of some of the books you mentioned here. Dunsany, McDonald, Edison, Peake and especially T. H. White who is one of my absolute favorites. They are all soooo good.
And a supplement to your remarks: Following on from the Brothers Grimm, one should definitely also take a look at the German Romantics, especially Novalis (Heinrich von Ofterdingen), Tieck (his art fairy tales), Fouque (Undine) and ETA Hoffmann (The Golden Pot), all of whom must be classified as fantastic literature and are still very much worth reading today. At least through Edgar Allan Poe have also developed their influence in the English-speaking world.
Thanks, Mirko! I do hope to cover some of the older works of fantasy on the channel eventually. All the best!
very informative and interesting video, thank you
Thank you for watching!
Have you ever read The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson?
I ask for a few reasons. The first being I think it is a mostly forgotten work that inspired a lot more fantasy than most people would assume.
It was published in 1954 (same year as The Fellowship of the Ring) and while it shares the same folklore influences they are literally night and day to one another.
The Broken Sword is brutal and adult in ways you never see in the LotR. I think the closest modern comparison would be Wheel of Time to Game of Thrones.
It is also one of those pillars of fantasy that was not influenced by The Lord of the Rings in any way.
I look at it as a forking point in fantasy. You have The Lord of the Rings leading to things like Shannara and other Tolkien-esque works and then on the other side you have The Broken Sword leading to Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels and more experimental dark fantasy in the 60s and 70s like Karl Edward Wagner's Kane and so on.
Tolkien used folklore in a cozy way with a sense of adventure like a fantasy version of H Rider Haggard(who was one of his influences as a boy) and made a meandering epic that shows you good vs evil and the power of friendship.
Anderson takes the dark road and uses the same folklore to create a tragic, brutal, epic tale about the wickedness of man and the thirst for revenge.
Anderson's elves are also shall we say "old school" elves. The kind that steal children.
The other reason I bring it up is that, based on your education and interests, the 1954 version of The Broken Sword was literally written for you. He uses a lot of archaic words and mostly forgotten folklore from northern Europe to write a powerful dark fantasy epic unlike anything else published before or after. Anderson said as much when he "revised" the novel in 1972. He said he is not the same person that wrote that book back then. He could not write like that again.
I know this video is almost 4 years old and with only 15 minutes or so you couldn't make a comprehensive history. I just felt that I would be remiss if I didn't mention one of my favorite books of all time, knowing that you too would enjoy it.
This is a great video and a wonderful guide for all the fantasy lovers out there!
I have heard about but not read Anderson’s The Broken Sword. Thanks so much for bringing attention to it here, Joseph!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy If you ever seek out a copy I highly recommend the Fantasy Masterworks edition from Gollancz. It is the original 1954 edition. The 1972 edition replaced a lot of the more archaic words and changed a few things that I don't really agree with.
@@JosephReadsBooks Thank you for the heads up - I’d much prefer the original!
This is a great and approachable history of Western (read, European and Euro-descended) fantasy, but it's presented as if the Western European case is representative of ALL fantasy. It would be nice to see a less eurocentric approach (or at least to mention openly that you're only talking about the Western tradition).
Thanks for the feedback, Marle. I confess I know much more about older mythologies from around the world than I do about modern non-Western genre fantasy apart from the last twenty to thirty years, when the genre has exploded with stories from all over the world. It’s an exciting time for fantasy now.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Absolutely, and thanks for the response! I'm a literature scholar and fully understand the need to specialize / the impossibility of being familiar with everything. I think the video is excellent and wouldn't change anything about the content itself (I learned a fair few things as well) - it was more a suggestion about framing and clarifying that in this video, you're only talking about Western myth and fantasy, which is obviously still a huge topic. No one would expect you to describe the history of ALL fantasy in seventeen minutes (indeed - the term 'fantasy' doesn't even mean the same thing in other literary traditions, as I'm sure you know).
Regardless, thanks for engaging constructively, and again, I really enjoyed the video!
@@marlesimms Honestly, a 17-minute video is woefully inadequate even just for Western fantasy, but as a very general gist of the genre in a Western context, it’s a decent stab at it, I think. Thanks again!
Thank you, I really appreciate the academic approach you took to discuss this topic while still keeping it fun- I learned a lot. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! In turn, I appreciate your kind words of encouragement, which definitely motivate me to keep making videos.
Thank you so much for this video. I think you may have answered a question I have wondered about for a long time. I've been searching for the writer who first conceived of the concept of a fantasy world set in another world han ours (as opposed to a fiction time in our Earth's pre-history such as JRRT's Middle-earth or REH's Hyberboria). Would you say William Morris (whom I am unfamiliar with) can be credited as the first to create a fantasy world, independent of our Earth's pre-history?
I’d say Morris is a good candidate, especially if we’re talking about what I’ll call modern fantasy, as opposed to medieval literature or myth. George McDonald was earlier than William Morris, but his stories were more portal fantasy, I think.
Excellent video. I really enjoyed the detailed breakdown of these old stories in chronological order and how they went on to inspire Fantasy today. I think this one is one of your best videos yet!
The Serpent Thank you! It’s hard to know where you are if you don’t know where you’ve come from. I had fun with this one, and I’m happy you enjoyed it!
Would love to see a more in depth lecture that goes on for hours! Thanks, this was enlightening
Thanks for watching, Farhad! I had fun making this one.
It is always a pleasure to learn from your videos, Philip. When you mentioned Morris and his work as a craftsman and the pictures you featured, it remembered me of a music album's cover by the singer Loreena McKennitt: "The mask and mirror", because of the medieval inspired themes that are often found in her songs.
Very cool - I love connections like that! And thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Great content as always. Waiting for your TBR video.
GAUTAM CHAWLA Thank you! The TBR video will be in a couple weeks. My wife grabbed the Shiva Trilogy as soon as it arrived and already read the first book. She loved it, so I’m getting excited to read it!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That is really nice. The next series I will pick up will be Shatter Me and any series by Joe Abercrombie because I have not started any of his books and I have a lot to catch up since he is so good.
GAUTAM CHAWLA I love Abercrombie’s work - I hope you’ll enjoy it!
We need more content like this.. it was so informative.
Thanks so much! I left out a lot, but in a short video, it’s hard to mention everything that deserves mentioning. Still, it’s a fun topic.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy We would be looking forward to more such videos , you'r doing a great work !
@@AnuragSingh-xj1oc Thanks! The encouragement means a lot!
Well Philip, this was awesome. You mentioned a couple of the pioneers that I really need to look into.
Much appreciated. Keep up the good work ^_^
Thank you, Vic! I had a lot of fun making this one. My PhD dissertation was about William Morris (more about his saga translations than his fantasies, but I have a chapter on the latter too), so the early years of fantasy are a topic of great interest to me.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy that is really cool, and here I am, I've never heard of him before!
Thank you for great informative content. ;)
@@VicRibeiro777 My pleasure! Yes, while much less known in fantasy circles today, Morris was a major influence on Tolkien.
Great video. You should make a video on the work of Gabriel Garcia-Marquez and how fantastical elements and "magic realism" is a major component in a lot of Latin American literature.
An excellent point, Gabe! Magical realism is a very important element of both Latin American and South Asian fiction, among others, and it shares important elements with its cousins among other types of fantasy. Definitely an omission on my part!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Also worth to mention russian classic authors who are direct predecessors to magic realism: Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin, Nikolai Gogol and Michail Bulgakov (Master and Margarita). Marques sweared that he hadn't read Bulgakov before writing his 100 years and haven't influenced from Master and Margarita. From 19 century classics should mention german E.T. A.Hoffmann. Personally i'm big fan of Japanese Haruki Murakami and very entertaining russian Viktor Pelevin.
@@andrabeta1971 Excellent- thank you! I’ve read some of the great Russian writers (in translation, unfortunately) like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, but I could be much better read, so I appreciate you mentioning those authors. Russia has such an amazing literary tradition!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Wow, You replied to comments! Thank's! Glad that i found Your channel. I'll get here information of good fantasy to read. Don't want to waste time and spend money on 2nd and 3rd sort trash. Before engage to entertaining literature like fantasy, i like to see and read reviews of people i can trust, who know what literature is and haven't "read" before just comic books and watch Star Wars.
I'm happy that i found Martin, Abercrombie and Sapkowsky. They are readable. Like Stevenson or Dumas of our time.
What one can read when all classics are done and reread many times and Umberto Ecco is dead?. I'm sick of postmodernism and contrculture.
Last thing: You better read M.Bulgakov's Master and Margarita. English translation is good. Book is serious and with good genuine russian humor what is very similar to english humor.
Subscribed:)
@@andrabeta1971 Martin, Abercrombie, and Sapkowsky are all fantastic. I've read just about everything by the first two. I read the two short story collections in the Witcher series, and soon I'll start the first novel.
Excellent talk, really enjoyed listening to this, this morning. Keep up the good work.
Max-Gen21 Howard Thank you! I deeply appreciate your supportive comments- they make the work of creating the videos very much worth it!
Thanks for this interesting and informative video. I love learning about how authors were influenced by the issues of their time, and how other authors were subsequently influenced by these works.
Francois Bouchart Yes, fantasy has a rich history, and while I know some people have written about it (I myself wrote my PhD dissertation on William Morris), it’s a topic that could use more exposure, I think. I also love learning about the relationships between authors and the important historical events and social trends of their time since I find that such study enriches my understanding of the literary works. Thanks, as always, for watching and commenting!
Yet another great video, Philip!
Juan Del Sol Thank you very much! I appreciate you watching and commenting.
Amazing video, thank you!
I'm happy that you enjoyed it, and thank you for watching!
Oh, and I had to laugh at the choice of pictures after your comment about "unpredictable deaths". No subtle spoilers there or anything haha.
Ha ha! And here I thought I was being so subtle!
This is such a great video, I am subscribing! I am currently reading the Lord of the Rings and the Divine Comedy at the same time. It is amazing to see the similarities between Dante's Inferno and both Moria and Mordor. The way how Dante's demons and the Orcs behave is exactly the same! I did some research, and I fount out that Tolkien was part of the Oxford's Dante Society. It is trulz fascinating.
Thanks! I’m sure that Tolkien was intimately familiar with Dante’s work, and it’s pretty cool that you’re making those connections. Tolkien’s influences were broad, and he was incredibly well read. I love that his fiction is so grounded in so many outstanding classics.
Thanks Philip for this, this video helped me on this June 16, 2024 in becoming a fantasy series fan, i did initially think of it all as escapist, but not as drivel, i often would pine for the commitment required, and indeed am setting my first task to be a lofty one, to read The Wheel of Time before settling on another series, by finishing it i earn the right to spend money again, (spending problem history)
My best wishes to you for your reading!
This is a really well made video, I learnt a lot! Looking forward to seeing your channel grow :D
Thank you for watching, and I appreciate the encouragement!
I just subscribed and watched this video first. I've not read that many Fantasy books and the ones that interest me (like Joe Abercrombie's) are not available in my local library. :( But I've read The Fellowship and recently finished The Two Towers, so this video was really interesting and informative. Thank you for your work, you were very eloquent and well-prepared! ^^
Thank you! I’m happy that you took something from the video, and I hope that your library will get more fantasy books in the future. My library has a service where they will order a book from another library if they don’t have it, and I’ve used that service a lot. I hope you’ll enjoy Return of the King and your other upcoming reads. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I've heard that it's the case in the US, but I don't think there's something like that here in Québec, Canada. Yes, you have a French-Canadian viewer now! :D They do have Fantasy books, just not the ones that seem to interest me (and I don't want to read their French translations because they've let me down so many times - as a translator myself it drives me crazy). I have my own LOTR copy though, that's not even a choice haha!
@@onfaerystories My maternal grandfather was Québécois, so it’s wonderful to have a subscriber from that part of the world. Being from northern Vermont originally, I’ve been to Montreal a number of times and to Quebec City once. I’m a big fan of our northern neighbor! I agree that every personal library should have a copy of LOTR if possible!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'd love to go to Vermont, it's so close to where I live (I live just a little bit outside of Montreal, grew up in Montreal though). Have you learned a bit of French? :P
@@onfaerystories Yes, I can read French well enough to have read a few novels. I’m not as good at speaking it or writing it (I wrote a few essays in French in college, but that was nearly 30 years ago), so I guess you could say my grasp of the language is somewhat passive. I love the language and would very much like to improve in it. You would likely be amused or shocked by the way people in northern Vermont pronounce the many French surnames there. My favorite is Charlesbois, which is butchered into “Charley-boys”. Ha ha! But Vermont is a very beautiful place.
This is such an informative video! Although this is a different angle than what you're discussing, I once wrote a paper in a music history class about how the Scientific Revolution influenced spiritual beliefs (concepts and theories of the unknown) and the classical style of music. The Romantic era then became a shift back into the unknown with much more explorative views and questions pervading science, spirituality, and art forms (can't help but think about Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique since you are discussing fantasy--I highly recommend if you aren't familiar with it). Then came the emergence of Darwinism and Wagner with his "Music of the Future," which is then followed by Debussy who called Wagner's music "a beautiful sunset mistaken for a dawn." Long tangent, but I am very curious to learn how past and present fantasy authors explore current trends in science and spiritual beliefs in conscious-and maybe sometimes unconscious-ways. I appreciate how you focused on the social and psychological applications in this video. I learned so much and appreciate how fantasy authors are taking us on journeys into new, contrasting perspectives. Truly fascinating.
Johanna Royo Thank you! I love the musical angle you brought up and think it offers some excellent insights. I’m a big fan of the Symphony Fantastique - I heard it live a couple years ago and won’t ever forget the experience. Trends in science and spiritual beliefs most definitely play a big role in both fantasy and science fiction. Sometimes the writer will make the concern explicit, sometimes less so, but it’s often an important part of the world building. It’s wonderful to read your comments- thanks so much!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you so much for your response! This might have been the longest comment I've ever left on a video. This topic clearly interests me. So glad you got to enjoy Symphony Fantastique live!
Johanna Royo Your comments, long or short, are always welcome!
What a great video! As someone who loves fantasy as well as history, this was just the most enjoyable thing ever for me.
Anyhow, I have been wanting to ask you something for some time now, so here goes:
For my last year of high school, I have to write this really big thesis/essay (I don't know the English equivalent, but in Dutch it is called a 'Profielwerkstuk'). As a subject I, naturally, chose 'the fantasy genre'.
Since you always come across so well-informed and you just love the fantasy genre, I was hoping I could maybe get your perspective on some things and some insights in being a college (literature) professor as well as a fantasy booktuber! So, would you maybe be open to me interviewing you about some fantasy related things? This could either be in written format (which would be easier for me, since I will have to write it all out in the end) of in video format, whatever you feel most comfortable with and works best for you!
Sadly, I do have limited time because of deadlines, so if we could make this happen within about a month or so,that would be awesome!
I would love to hear from you soon!
In the meantime, keep doing you, I love all the content you are coming out with!
Have a nice day!
Esmay
Esmay Rosalyne First, thank you for watching and for your kind words! An interview on anything related to fantasy sounds like fun to me, and I would be delighted to be of help if I can for your thesis project. Since the written format would be easiest, you may contact me at the following email address: philipchase90@gmail.com
I look forward to hearing from you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am so excited to hear this! I will contact you as soon as possible! Thank you very much, I really appreciate it :)
Esmay Rosalyne My pleasure!
Nice video and summary. I wonder why I never see Alice mentioned in discussions of early modern fantasy? Wonderland should qualify. I also think books like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court should count. And I would also mention the tremendous influence of Dungeons and Dragons on a whole generation of authors, which is at least as large as the shadow of Tolkien. (Forgotten Realms, Malazan, GRRM, Dragonlance, just to name a few).
duffypratt All excellent additions/suggestions. I shouldn’t have forgotten D&D since I played it in the 1980s myself! Alice in Wonderland is often included in fantasy lists, and I have no objection to that. A Wizard of Oz qualifies for similar reasons, as does A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s court. All are dream narratives with fantasy elements, I think, and each is important in itself. Great comments!
Nice video, I really hope that you do some chapters to this, because I'd love to hear your take on some of the authors mentioned in the early years of fantasy like Dunsany. Also, what is your opinion on the literary value of the pulp fantasy and horror authors? Keep em coming, Professor Chase.
Greekvvedge Thank you! I’ve read George McDonald and just about everything by William Morris (since I wrote my PhD dissertation on him), and I’ve read Eddison’s The Worm of Ouroboros. I’ve only read snippets of Dunsany, and these are usually presented to show how archaic and artificial his prose was. In that sense, not many of these late 19th and early 20th century fantasy authors have aged well, and I doubt they would be read much today except by a serious fan of the genre. In some ways, the pulp authors might have aged a bit better since they used more accessible prose, but my sense is they’re a niche thing too - well, they always were, but even more so now. For me, it’s all fun, and we can learn a lot from all of them. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
In terms of Pulp fiction Robert E. Howard was incredibly important regarding his contributions to fantasy specifically with worldbuilding and the Sword-and Sorcery subgenre.
You referenced this video in your Week That Was this morning so I figured I'd check it out! I enjoyed it, as well as the brief chat you had with AP in the comments below! I am curious that when you taught (or still do teach) your course on Fantasy novels if you started with MacDonald, or referenced those early authors and started with Tolkien?
Thanks for checking this one out, Josh! In the fantasy novels course, the earliest author I've started with is Tolkien. I wrote my dissertation on William Morris, though, and there is a chapter on his "prose romances" (fantasy) from the 1890s. I do give my students a brief history, though, and definitely mention George MacDonald. Cheers!
Thanks! I've always been curious about your syllabus for this class.
fantasy is the reason i prefer english literature, i always wondered why fantasy was developed so much in english, when you mentioned the industrial revolution it finally clicked in my head. but still, i wonder why it didn't have as amazing as a "boom" in other languages/cultures (there are very few exceptions)
That’s actually a very interesting question to explore. I do think the reaction to industrialization is a big part of the answer, and perhaps also a feeling among the English that Tolkien himself expressed: the loss of their native mythology. We have Beowulf in Old English, but nothing like the body of literature that exists in Old Norse in the Eddas and sagas.
Really enjoyed this video!
I am curious about your opinion on the relationship between fantasy and religion. In my mind, the influence is seemingly twofold: (1) fantasy series often have their own gods/religions/cults (2) many plotlines or figures in fantasy parallel those found in religious texts (Gandalf and Coltaine come to mind in connection with Judeochristianity).
How would you discern the influence of ancient tale vs. religion in fantasy?
Patrick Mullen That’s an awesome question, and it deserves a whole book or two to answer it. To me, much of the best fantasy uses the history of our world as a jumping off point, and that applies to religion. There are some fantasies where there’s something recognizably like some stage of an existing religion (Tad Williams’ Memory, Sorrow, Thorn comes to mind at the moment, where the dominant religion highly resembles Christianity in some respects). Others take inspiration from what we today call myth (though its practitioners thought of it as a religion), such as the Malazan books with all those gods and ascendants that remind one of the best stories in classical myth, where the gods are always competing against each other and manipulating people. As an aside, my sense is that many of us who are drawn to myths or philosophy or religion also seem to have a natural love for fantasy, and that’s no coincidence. Fantasy serves the same psychological needs that the others do, in my opinion, and the lines between them all are quite blurry. I’m not sure I answered your question at all, but my mind went in a hundred different and interesting directions when I read your comment. Thank you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Great insight 🤗 I really like your opinion re: the blurred line.
Patrick Mullen Thanks! It’s a really interesting topic you raised.
I have a friend whose opinion of not only fantasy but fiction in general is quite low. He only reads historical or political accounts and biographies with some, what I to his chagrin would call, esoteric spiritual self-help books in between.
While I do acknowledge the biographies of important historical figures as a worthy read, I read all three available Monty Python bios after all, I can't get behind everything else. When I read historical books, I can't help but think about the biases that went into it, from history being written by the victors up to educated guesses as to what somebody's thought processes and inspirations might have been.
While on the other hand my argument toward fictional works is always the social and political values and lessons portrayed, with motives and situations, while totally made up, still in a certain sense less of an 'opinion'.
The best books to me, are the ones that make me empathise with all sides of a conflict, and show the nuances in beliefs, which I think would help a lot of people who in recent years seem to fight every issue on a binary black and white field.
I believe I learned more about the hopes and fears occupying a 16th century (noble man's) mind by reading the fictional 'Utopia' by Sir Thomas More than I would ever have from some historical account.
Lothar Freitag You have an excellent point! In a sense, fantasy is more honest than history if the latter pretends to be completely accurate. In my experience, the best historians, like the best scientists, acknowledge with a healthy humility that the received knowledge of today in their field could be tomorrow’s debunked theory with new knowledge. Fantasy, on the other hand, is totally free from the burden of literal truth, making it one of the most creative forms of writing and highly sustaining for the human imagination. I like history as a discipline and have read a good amount of it, but I totally agree with you about the biases that tend to influence our interpretations of events. I’ve even studied the history of history, and what serious historians used to think a hundred years ago can vary in important respects from what they think today. Excellent thoughts - thank you for those insights!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy You are of course right about (most) professionals being very aware of assumptions and biases in their respective fields. Most will also take care to phrase their papers accordingly, but once they get cited in magazines or documentaries that degree of uncertainty gets lost on most consumers. And while I am probably overly sceptic I pessimistically assume most are not.
I am very intrigued by the notion of history of history, you wouldn't happen to have some recommendations on that subject? A month until university starts, still time for a little extracurricular reading.
Lothar Freitag I agree with you that much nuance is lost in translation when the findings of experts are reported to the public in general, and that probably most people lack the time and/or inclination to investigate enough for a truly informed opinion. It’s been about twenty years since I wrote my PhD dissertation on William Morris. Part of that dissertation was looking at how 18th and 19th century English historians (who borrowed a lot from German speaking historians, by the way) presented an idealized version of their Anglo-Saxon and medieval ancestors. They had political ideals that influenced and even skewed their interpretations of history, and though it’s fairly easy for modern historians to recognize this bias, practically no one questioned it in the time in which the historians lived. In that way, I read a lot of really bad history, but I learned a lot about the ideals and motives of the historians and about the time in which they lived. I read a few of them, but E.A. Freeman is one I remember pretty well. Of course, history was a younger discipline in those days, but I’m confident that future historians will find problems with the interpretations of current ones.
First of all, I enjoyed this breakdown of early fantasy history very much. I wonder what your thoughts are on what is inhibiting Fantasy as a medium from being taken seriously amongst other "hard" fiction? Is the hurdle of it being inherently make believe too great for a novel to break into the "high art" category? The closest we get in most high schools is magical realism, like Rushdie's 'Midnight's Children' or Marquez. Not that it really matters, just curious what you think as a student/teacher of the genre.
There’s definitely some snobbery toward any “genre fiction,” but academia is actually waking up a bit, I think. These days, there’s a healthy amount of doctoral level work being done among people pursuing Cultural Studies, and a lot of medievalists like me have long studied fantasy. So, that’s the good news. That said, you can still find appalling ignorance in academic circles of just how excellent fantasy can be (and, as in any other genre, a lot of fantasy is awful too). I think it boils down to ignorance and old fashioned snobbery, and some people just like pretending they’re smarter than everyone else, so it makes them feel good to disparage something. Not the most illuminating answer, but I don’t think it’s more complicated than that. Thanks for watching!
Considering Chaucer was able to revive a dead language with the Canterbury Tales, I'd say you are right in saying fantasy is more than mere escapism.
Thanks, Maximas! Chaucer contributed to the revival of English as a respectable literary language, one of several great accomplishments. And that truly does reflect the power of storytelling!
Cool video, do you have any tips on how to read more/ faster
NotcarlXD42eii o's To be honest, I consider myself a relatively slow reader because I’m always stopping to admire a sentence or, when reading fantasy, flipping back to the map to see where the characters are. The advantage of taking my time is that I tend to absorb what I read and remember it pretty well. I wish I knew how to read fast and still absorb as much, but I’m kind of skeptical of people who claim they know how to read at lightning speed. Long way of saying, “I have no idea,” but I like the question!
All you have to know is that it's totally okay to be a slow reader. If anything, that's better. It means you're likely taking more from a single book than those who read ten books in a week. My advice is to just embrace it. Reading ten pages, or one or two chapters a day is all good, my man.
Jarl Trippin' I completely agree!
Jarl Trippin' I just wanna read more cus I have a tight schedule but I like long epic fantasy
@@estebanr457 I know the feeling. Even before I started making RUclips videos, I used to think about how I could read more. With the self-imposed pressure of making videos, it's an even more pressing issue. But I think Jarl Trippin' has a point -- I'm going to accept what I can do, make informed choices about what I'm going to read next, and enjoy it as much as possible. Happy reading!
So Don Quixote was published in 1605 and in it the main character is said to have read so many stories about knights and sorcerers to the point that he basically decides to cosplay for life as a knight errant.
I always wondered if the fantasy genre was not already a thing by 1605. What are these books he’s reading? Are they just folktales? Were they specifically penned by individuals and marketed for those interested in the genre.
Yes, Don Quixote is a comedy spoofing a time period of writing that we’re probably not very aware of, much like the movie Airplane! spoofed and outlived the airplane disaster movies that it used as source material.
I just wonder if there is a kind of lost birth date to fantasy fiction that started before the romantic era that academics seem to have planted their flag in.
Again I say this because Cervantes states rather matter of factly that there was a large quantity of poorly written material about swords and sorcery available for Don Quixote to glut and addle his brain with. When there’s that much material available it sounds like a well establish genre to me.
Very interesting insight, there! Yes, Cervantes had to react to something, perhaps the pulp fiction of his day. I would say that the medieval romances from which these stories are descended contain many fantastical elements, and one could call them fantasy in a broad sense without too much controversy. Thanks for the wonderful comment!
Thank you for the video! It was really inspiring to hear about the history of fantasy because lately, I have been trying to understand what the fantasy genre even is...
I'm worldbuilding for worldbuilding's sake, without a very clear goal of ever writing a story or publishing anything. However, I've been struggling with the question of why do I even do it? For some reason, I just have to. And this makes me think that the world I create should perhaps be able to support a fantasy story if I ever decide to write one. The thing is, I have been avoiding all the clearly fantastical elements (magic, fantasy races and creatures) and have just created a fantasy world with its kingdoms, cultures, histories, pantheons etc. The world has its mysteries, of course, but they are analogic to the mysteries of our world (or of my life). Is this fantasy? Or more importantly, would anyone care to read fantasy without fantasy?
Anyway, I still don't have the answers, but your video somehow made it easier for me to consider including something fantastical.
I enjoyed reading your comment very much! Doing a lot of world building can be enjoyable for its own sake, but there’s plenty of precedent for fantasy authors doing that before writing their novels set in those worlds. Tolkien comes to mind. So do Erikson and Esslemont, who created the Malazan world by gaming before writing any books. So, if you ever decide to write a novel, you’ll have a rich world in which to set it. That’s a wonderful thing! In the meantime, I wish you much fulfillment with your world building. Cheers!
Love these kind of deep dives and lectures! It is rather silly that fantasy hasn't been taken seriously by critics for a long time, indeed a lack of imagination on their part.
Both Literature and fantasy spring from the mind of imaginative humans, use the same languages, and can deal with exactly the same themes. One just uses meaning imparted on the colors or textures of mostly objects like curtains or clouds, where the other uses any shape or being the creator can come up with.
Part of it is because fairy tales changed into just fun little stories for little children - is Disney most to blame for this?
Originally these tales were cautionary and actually quite grim (😏), as well as fantastical.
This devolved into thinking any story featuring elves and goblins, witches and magic etc must just be for kids.
Meanwhile older sources for fantastical stories were still worthy of study, like the Greek myths, the Edda and even Shakespeare and Dante.
Rob Paul Well said, as always! You’re quite right about the evolution of fairy tales and how they were relegated to kids. Regarding serious scholarship on fantasy, it’s definitely sparse, but there are some wonderful exceptions. Tolkien has been better served than most, and one of my favorite Tolkien scholars is Tom Shippey. Harry Potter has a fair amount of critical literature. But there’s not a ton. My own dissertation was on William Morris, with one chapter dedicated to his “prose romances” (fantasies). Don’t look for it on the New York Times bestseller list either!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
Makes me wonder.. what does it take to be taken seriously by academic circles as an author?
Tolkien and Morris seem to have had a lasting influence on a genre or literature as a whole, with a broad audience and decades of emulation to research. Rowling was a weird phenomenon with unquestionable broad immediate influence and likely for years to come - but relatively recent. A sign of changes in academia, or simply a case of 'follow the money'?
Rob Paul It’s likely both. Of course, there have long been individuals within academic circles who are less snobby about these things. Pop culture studies is a thing now too. But, in the main, even in literature departments, many perceive you as less serious if you’re exploring something like fantasy. I’m reminded of how Tolkien’s fellow academics regarded his “hobby”, and even Tolkien, who was a great scholar and author of critical essays that are still important, seemed a bit embarrassed at times about his popularity.
I can't believe that people just dismiss fantasy as "chicken-head stories" as they are only what the human brains biggest though function is: Imagination.
Tyler Does Tech Well said! Imagination is perhaps the most important thing that makes us human.
great video. thank you!
Thank you for watching!
Why is social critique THE criterion by which a work is considered "literary?" Why not deep characters or challenging technique?
Deep characters are great! I’m not sure what you mean by challenging technique - perhaps an unconventional narrative style is an example? Regardless, those are also great criteria for assessing literature.
Saying that ancient stories required some amount of belief just isn't true. Many seemed to serve no other purpose beyond enforcing a moral or even just being entertainment, the same as modern stories.
Great point, Abb! While there might have been widespread (not universal) belief in myths, many old stories were more entertaining, with folktales perhaps belonging more in the latter category. The line between myths and folktales is also difficult, perhaps impossible, to draw. For the most part, no one “believes” in modern fantasy, though there is at least one religion founded on a science fiction author’s ideas, so perhaps the line there is blurry too. Thanks for the comment!
I just read When Books Went to War by Molly Guptill Manning. It's about the Armed Services Editions of books that were distributed to soldiers during WW2. It didn't mention fantasy being part of the book rations. Now I'm curious why The Lord of the Rings wasn't one of the ASEs. Was it considered unsuitable or could they not get the copyright? It surely would have been a good soldierly read.
Tolkien was writing LOTR in part during WWII, but it wasn’t published until 1954. But I agree wholeheartedly that fantasy in general and LOTR in particular would have been excellent choices for soldiers. Cheers!
Do you have any idea why the British were so pivotal in the development of this genre?
I think it might have something to do with the Industrial Revolution beginning with the British. Dislocation, urbanization, and the ugliness of the modern world created a longing for an idealized past and other worlds untouched by such things. Perhaps that’s part of it, but it’s no accident that many feel fantasy as a modern genre really begins in the 19th century.
What a wonderful answer! That sounds totally correct. The suddenness of the contrast of the new and the old. The one I can never work out is why the Brits were so great at rock and pop compared to the rest of Europe. Do let me know if you know the answer to that one too!
@@galacticambitions1277 Ha ha! That one I can’t explain!
I don't think anyone can! Maybe the two are linked in some way. Like how in the industrial revolution everyone was crammed into back to back terrace housing and the pub became a great focus and escape, and that paved the way for local bands looking for foreign influences to replace the abandoned folk tradition. I shall ponder!
When it comes to Prophet's view on fantasy there are two branches of it really western fantasy like Lord of the Rings, Conan the Barbarian, and Elric of Melnibone. Then you have eastern fantasies like Journey to the West, The Investiture of the Gods, and other Gods and Demons fiction as well. The Prophet isn't saying Conan and LOTR are part of the same genre only of the same cultural background that being the western world.
Very cool to get the Prophet’s take, and that’s an excellent point there about traditions of fantasy besides Western ones. Thanks for the comment!
Super interesting! I'm curious, with Morris's obscure language choices, who do you believe he thought his audience was? Who would have put up with (or been intrigued by) his language choices?
Josh5now That’s an excellent question! My initial reaction is to conjecture that Morris wrote what was in his heart, which is to say a world in which he could put forward his ideals of communalism, beauty, and honest craftsmanship. The irony of Morris is that, in spite of his socialist ideals, he made such beautiful and labor intensive things that only the wealthy could afford his products. He was in some ways a dreamer who was full of contradictions, but he was aware of these contradictions too. He once expressed to a wealthy client that he was frustrated at catering to “the swinish luxuries of the rich.” So, I think his fantasies were an expression of his ideals, which were in large part based on an idealized version of the medieval world. He wanted to create this idealized medieval world, and part of that creation was its language. While less extreme, many (most?) fantasy authors have followed his example, using, to some degree or other, an archaic language in their prose. Tolkien is an obvious example, but so is George R.R. Martin. This archaic language is part of what convinces readers that the world they’re immersing themselves in is not our world. If a fantasy writer’s prose is too modern, the illusion is broken. If it’s too archaic, then the story becomes inaccessible. So, there’s an ideal balance there somewhere, and Morris fell far on the archaic side. Ursula Le Guin wrote an essay on this topic of fantasy language called “From Elfland to Poughkeepsie” - a very good read. So, that’s a long answer. The short answer is I don’t think Morris thought much about his audience- he wanted to create beautiful things.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That's great insight, thanks! I feel like that's still a very valid drive for some fantasy authors today, to create their idea of an ideal world through their writing. They've just thankfully learned how to make their writing more approachable, though no less idealized
Josh5now I agree entirely. It’s a somewhat tricky balance for fantasy authors to handle, but it’s part of the fun of the genre.
In my reading some have included works as far back as Le Morte d'Arthus and The Faerie Queene as origins in the 16th century. I wonder how influenced Tolkien was by both of these. Aragorn = Arthur...
Larry Laderoute Great points! There’s a good argument for counting Arthurian material as fantasy, but I personally see it as more on the level of myth and legend, where people telling the tales see them as history, however embellished. Geoffrey of Monmouth, for example, presents The History of the Kings of Britain as historical. I suspect that even as late as Thomas Malory’s time (the 15th century), people still though of the Arthurian material as real. Tolkien did have some things to say of Arthurian material, and he even translated Sir Gawain and the Green Knight from Middle English. However, I think he would have asserted that his Middle-Earth owed more to Germanic sources than Celtic. I’m fairly certain he’s actually written or spoken on the matter. Of course, you could argue that Aragorn and Arthur both stem from the same archetype of the king in waiting destined to save and renew the realm. Great comments - thank you!
Wow, good job
Thank you!
I have to ask, but do you teach? You do a great way of discussing topics and teaching at the same moment. I know you're a dad, so that means you teach in my opinion the best/most impactful way, but do you do it as a career in any capacity? Hope you don't mind me asking, just always feel to tell people when I see potential. Lord knows we as a species should do more of that.
Ps: I love your Buddha statues. As someone with a great deal of respect for the 'path' I think it's cool when others explore it too!
Jay Thank you for the kind words! I am indeed a teacher - a professor of English, in fact, with a specialty in medieval literature. I also teach a course about fantasy novels that I designed, among other things. It’s a very rewarding career.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy , that is fantastic to hear. I took all the electives I could in college within topics such as what you teach. If you don't mind me asking, but what fantasy books and/or stories do you have your class read/discuss? Do you speak on the Heroes journey? That was when my mind was opened up.
Jay Yes, we do discuss the hero’s journey, and I specifically talk about Joseph Campbell’s take on that. In recent years, the class has read books like The Hobbit, A Wizard of Earthsea, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone (Philosopher’s Stone if you’re from outside the United States), A Game of Thrones, American Gods, The Name of the Wind, and The Fifth Season. I try to change it up from time to time as there are so many great books to choose from.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy , I would take your class for fun if possible. That is fantastic. So glad to hear of such opportunities. I adore Campbell. He opened my mind to an amazing perspective with storytelling. I have his book by my bed tabbed and written all over with notes by my bed so I can marvel at the genius of some of today's writers by referencing his diverse concepts with story. I adore reading fantasy and I adore stand up comedy and I'm blessed to live in the golden age for both.
Jay Campbell really opened my mind too at a crucial time, when I was 17 or 18 years old. I agree about this being an excellent time for fantasy. I know less about standup, but that’s really cool too!
very interesting
Simon Kelly Thank you!
Even though it's a TV show, I think BUFFY is a seminal work of urban fantasy, and highly recommend it if you haven't already seen it.
I actually have never watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which is probably a big gap in my fantasy credentials! Someday I will!
Two things I don't agree with regarding this overall all-encompassing history discussion. 1) Myth did not become all of a sudden the province of kids with the enlightenment. Perhaps some myth was but the oldest myths of Greece and Rome continued to be taken seriously by intellectual movements and circles for at least until the 1900's. The neoclassical art movement of David and discussion and incorporation of symbols and allusions to myth by our founding fathers are two examples. Religion and politics were strengthened by comparison to moral tales and metaphors from these tales by leading intellectuals and popular discussion. 2) People talk about Terry Brooks sparking interest of the genre in the 80's but I wonder at the truth in that. Dungeons and Dragons was a popular force that got people into fantasy in the 70's and 80's so much that it was controversial and covered by the New York Times as early as 84. It had itself been influenced by Vance, Moorcock, Lieber, Howard, and Tolkien probably.
Masood Voon Excellent points! I completely agree about D&D (having played it in the 1980s myself!). Also, of course the evolving reception of myth is a complicated matter, and you’re right that classical myths remained “respectable” when read in a certain way (though in a way much different from how the original tellers likely intended). They were part of a classical tradition, but even within that tradition there was a clear hierarchy that privileged the philosophers over the storytellers - let’s not forget what Plato thought of Homer (not a high opinion), and those with a classical education in the Enlightenment probably felt similarly. Great to hear from you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I don't agree. Plato didn't not like Homer he felt that it was dangerous to portray gods as fickle as much as they were embodiments of universal values. In many ways those of Plato's age (and later) were the storytellers and the philosophers both. Sophocles plays, Ovid's metamorphoses, had unique recasting of myths that have been universally adopted as complex allegories both then and now. The French Revolution itself was partially inspired by these myths, a force of change from an era of entitled serfholders and global dynasties to that of people looking after their own interests and welfare. Consider how myths were used to explain morality and adavancement of man's society such as the Oath of Horatii which describe patriotism and self-sacrificel or Oedipus and the Sphinx which describe the triumph of intelligence over the natural world or control of one's destiny.
Masood Voon My understanding is that Plato called poets like Homer, whom he specifically names, liars for their stories, and he would have banished poets from his Republic. Tell me if I’ve got that wrong - it’s been well over a decade since I read Plato’s Republic. The allegorical interpretations that later philosophers and intellectuals during the Enlightenment applied to the old myths are interesting and speak of respect for the old stories, but I doubt people in Homer’s day understood those stories the same way (I have no way of proving that). Either way, I agree with you that classical myths enjoyed some level of respect from many during the Enlightenment, so your main point is valid.
👏🏽👏🏽 great
Thank you! 😊
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy welcome sir! Could you suggest some books on the history and evolution of the fantasy literature? Where shall i access more sources and materials on this and the sub-genres as well on shadow hunters and allomancers?
Very interesting. I've never heard of most of the pre-Tolkien stuff you talked about. I gather a lot of it is probably quite difficult to get into, are there any pre-Tolkien books you'd recommend to a lover of modern fantasy such as myself?
Guilbert Maric If I’m being completely honest, I must admit that your suspicion is correct: the pre-Tolkien stuff would be hard for most readers of modern fantasy to get into. There are a couple issues. One is the language. Many or most of these writers used a pseudo-medieval language that was archaic even for their contemporaries. Another is character. Today, most fantasy readers look for well developed characters that drive the story. The older fantasies tend to have flat characters who all speak the same archaic language. That said, I’ve spent some time reading some of the oldies, and there is some beautiful description to be found as well as some interesting themes.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy interesting. Honestly if there wasn't such a huge wealth of modern fantasy these days I might more consider it but I'm not sure i wanna spend the time persevering with these stuff when I could be enjoying so many other stories!
Guilbert Maric That’s an excellent point! There are so many great stories out there right now, and so little time.
I would suggest Alice in Wonderland & Conan.
The first fantasy novel ever made is called the bible.
Gilgamesh is even older, I think! But, yes, point taken. In the grand scheme, the predominant form of storytelling has been “fantasy” in the form of myths and legends.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy yes. imagination & human ignorance of the unknown has always given rise to finest stories ever told.
@@noelkinz So true!
I'd say the Odyssey and the Illiad predate that.
What kind of fantasy was popular in the 1860's in America ? That the average person might be reading.
And ?
Great question! The word "fantasy" wasn't being applied to any fiction in the 1860s, and I don't think there was much fantasy then either as I've defined it. Also, it's important to keep in mind that we're talking about the average literate person since, in the 1860s, the literacy rate was probably around 75% (I'm guessing, and it would have varied a lot by race, gender, age, and demographics (urban vs. rural)). That said, there were certainly gothic tales around, such as Washington Irving's The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, or just about anything by Edgar Allen Poe. That's about as close as it gets in the 1860s in America, I'd say, though some people here in the US might have been reading George McDonald (Phantastes was published in the UK in the 1850s). And, of course, there were the old folktales, but I would not define those strictly as fantasy. I hope that helps, and thanks for watching!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Perfect ! Thanks that helps.