How I Maintain Pasta Madre | 如何喂養野酵硬種 (水式酵母）
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2021
- Pasta madre also referred to lievito madre, a stiff/firm sourdough starter used widely in leavening of enriched dough such as panettone, pandoro etc.
Below is my maintenance schedule. It is subject to change if I find my pasta madre needs more tweaking.
Day 1 - 6pm
*Remove pasta madre from fridge
*Bagnetto for 15mins
*Dry refreshment
*Store in chiller at 7pm
Day 2 - 3pm
*Remove pasta madre from chiller (20 hours in chiller)
*Water refreshment
*Store in chiller at 3.30pm
Day 3 - 11.30 am
*Remove pasta madre from chiller (20 hours in chiller)
*Dry refreshment
*Store in chiller at 12pm
Day 4 - 8am
*Remove pasta madre from chiller (20 hours in chiller)
*Dry refreshment, leave at RT 28-30C for 3.5-4hr
Day 4 - 12.30pm
*Split pasta madre into 2 parts
*Part 1- Dry refreshment, leave at RT 28-30C for 3.5-4hr
*Part 2-Dry refreshment, store in fridge
Day 4 - 5pm
*Dry refreshment, leave at RT 28-30C for 3.5-4hr
Day 4 - 9.30pm
*Pasta madre triples and ready to be used
🔺請記得開啓中文字幕 （cc)
第一天 （下午6點）
冰箱取出酵母
浸泡糖水15分鐘
乾性喂養
下午7點收進酒櫃
第二天 （下午3點）
從酒櫃取出 （發酵20小時）
水式喂養
下午3點半收進酒櫃
第三天 （上午11點半）
從酒櫃取出 （發酵20小時）
乾性喂養
中午12收進酒櫃
第四天 （早上8點）
從酒櫃取出 （發酵20小時）
乾性喂養
室溫下（28-30C）發酵 3.5-4 小時
第四天 （中午12點半）
把酵母分成兩份
第一份 - 乾性喂養，室溫下（28-30C）發酵 3.5-4 小時
第二份 - 乾性喂養，放入冰箱冷藏
第四天 （下午5半）
乾性喂養
室溫下（28-30C）發酵 3.5-4 小時
第四天 （晚上9點半）
酵母膨發三倍，準備使用在麵糰攪拌
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Finally!!! I have mastered the ever so difficult Lievito Madre...and hence, the Panettone!!! I'm so very pleased! Started working on this in very late November. Have made two Panettones so far...the first was real nice but had me sweating. This one is a dream and can't wait till tomorrow to try it! It's hanging right now, listening to the conversation as we say:)!!! THANK YOU!!!
Wow great to know! Bravo and enjoy!
wow..so detailed...thks a lot fr sharing
such a good tutorial!
U r amazing Autumn. I thought baking with natural yeast is simple but this is another level. Tqsm for sharing.
Thanks Lucy
Thanks for sharing the in depth process. ^^
Thank you 😊
I've been looking for thisssss, it's so helpful!
Thank you
Thank you so much for sharing, this helped a lot for me to understand the pasta madre maintenance 🙏🙏
Thank you 😊
You are the most amazing baking channel. I always doubt how to maintain a pasta madre! Thanks for sharing the entire process ❤️ great video.
The process is not new and written in many books. What she has done is to 'visualize' it as well as add her tweaks for a hot country like Malaysia. For more in depth study we still need to take a class or hit the books
Thanks Zhihui
@@kahlingchan6315 ไใน
(
wow it's so satisfying
Thanks for the share this is the first i see this methode of Sourdough it's mix between piemontese and milanese technique very intressting
Thank you 😊
Thanks for sharing
Thank youuu for sharing 💗
I love your videos! I’m new here and trying to make a panettone from scratch
I was trying to find a recipe about starting the pasta madre.
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
You can convert your liquid starter using the method shared in this blog
love it!
i really cannot understand there're thumbs down..... thank you so much for sharing
Thank you 😊
Thanks! ❤️🇧🇷
is there a noticable difference between pasta madre and Sweet stiff sourdough starter when used in baking? Thanks!
老師您好，請問您養這支酵母的麵粉是使用大陽職人還是petra6384？謝謝您
The bundle is cute
😉
Hello and thank you for the very explicite video. Also: Merry Chrustmas to you🎉
I have 2 questions:
I prepared a padta madre for the panettone I am preparing. After the last refreshing I took half of the padta madre to create the first dough. I want to use the other half for storage. As it is still wet from the last 4 hours despite the resting; shall I refresh it again by calculating the quantity of the starter I have? What ratio shall I use for water and flour?
2. Is it possible to freeze pasta madre for future use as I don't bake much these days any if so- how do I refresh it after defrosting? Thank you so much, Daphna.
more baking videos please
thank you for this video
Could you share how to adapt using pm in regular starter recipe? 🙏🏻
Pm usually use in panettone, pandoro, Colomba etc
Hello, there is one thing I don't understand. When you are in a week of panettone production, do you continue feeding only hot throughout the entire time? Or once the panettone day is over, do you have to tie the sourdough and start from the beginning again, leaving the to rest for a few days sourdough in refrigerator? Thanks
老师你好，請問老师從冰箱拿出來的硬種是如何制作的，謝謝老师❤
Hi Autumn, is it ok to have a pH value of 4.28 after cold maintenance? Shouldn't go below 4?
thank you so much for such an informative video. may I ask why the change of hydration? I understand the one after the bagnetto but then you do 40%, 38%, 42% etc. thank you!
After bagnetto pm is quite wet hence I use lower hydro (30%). And if it’s after dry refreshment mh usual hydration is 40%, if wet then 38%. There is really no fix hydration for this, as everyone’s flour and pasta madre is different. It’s just a guide to show how I refresh mine. Hope you get it. Cheers 😊
Thank you for sharing this process. I really means a lot to me! If I my ask you what do you do with discard of PM?
Unfortunately I don’t use the discard as the bakes is sour 😅
Thanks for the detailed video 😊 I made a pasta madre using an online recipe, but it only uses dry refreshment. Is wet refreshment necessary and if yes, what does it add to the pasta madre? Thanks againn
I have seen different school of teaching using just dry refreshment VS dry/wet. From my past learning, the wet/dry is to balance the lactic/acetic, I’m not expert to advise how. But sometimes i do just dry refreshes too. I think you can go with what you comfortable with
Thank you - nice video. This is getting the pasta madre ready for using, but how do you maintain it if not using in a dough? ie - long term storage?
Feed and keep in fridge. The higher the ratio the longer it stays in fridge. Just like our liquid starter
Thank you so much for your recipes. I love them so much. May I ask a question?
If I don't have a chiller about 16 degrees, should I shorten the fermentation time to about 12-16 hours at 20-23 degrees in every step ?
I have seen people doing that. But theoretically there is reason for the temp range for the optimal environment for the microbes
lovely explanation!!! I was wondering- what is the thought process behind choosing different hydration in the 3 refreshments you made. you started with 30% then between 40-42%. Why did you do 30% to begin with? thank you :)
The one 30% is wet from water bath, hence lower hydration needed
buon giorno, ho pravato a seguire tutta la procedura ma non riesco ad impastare con le dosi di acqua, non ci riesco a mano e neanche con la planetaria. Posso aumentare leggermente la dose di acqua
Grazie
👏👏👏👏👏
How do we know is the PM is good and healthy?
Thank you for sharing. There is this question about what brand of flour you're using and where to purchase?
Super melanger. Check out at HOI
Hi Autumn Kitchen,
I am interested to learn how to do the pasta madre from scratch. Can you do a video of it step by step? Thereafter, I can follow the maintenance. Thank you
Me too.. Would love to learn.. Thanks
check out Kristen (Full Proof Baking) website for converting liquid starter to pasta madre
fullproofbaking.gumroad.com/#ucprT
Hi! You use cold flour and ice water... In the video you comment that you do this to prevent Lievito from overheating. What is the ideal temperature after mixing and lamination? What temperature must not be exceeded?
The bagnetto water, did you use something like 20C? Thanks for sharing.
I’m living in tropic country where my kitchen is usually 30C. I’m trying not to get a pasta madre that is over 30C.
so much loveeeeee. What is its name? 😊
Hi Autumn Kitchen, thank you for preparing this detailed videos for PM. Just wondering, how to maintained at 16 degree without wine chiller.
You need wine chiller
Hi Autumn kitchen does it mean that without a wine chiller I can’t maintain this PM?
Thank you very much. I knew how to make it, but I don’t know how to use it. Could you tell me how?
Use in panettone, pandoro, Colomba etc
May i ask about this. If i don’t have the chiller to keep at 18celcius degrees. So can i feed every 4h /1 time for all days ?it’s possible ? Hope to hear from you . Master!
It is actually not advisable
Did you start this sourdough with this water percentage or initially it was a 100% to make It grow better?
I was gifted a pasta madre by an Italian chef. You can do it by converting your liquid starter and maintain like a pasta madre.
Hi, what is the final ph that we are looking on day for final refreshment before we use it for panettone?
I’m not an expert but I would usually look at 4.2+-
I've recently converted my 100% hydration starter to a 50% hydration starter, and I've simply been maintaining this at 20 degrees, feeding every 12 hours (1:2:1). In terms of developing sourness, is it reasonable to assume my new stiff starter should make my loaves less-sour, but probably still more sour than properly maintained lievito madre?
Hello! Greetings from Malaysia. I wonder how to maintain my pasta made without a chiller. My fridge can go max 6C. Is it ok to refresh and leave at RT till double then place in fridge at 4C to triple?
Unfortunately it is quite challenging. There are ppl who do not own a chiller and tried with fridge. This has to come with experiment to see how your pasta madre react and grow with your fridge temp. I’m not in the position to advise as I didn’t try with fridge
Hi, if I am making another batch in another 2 to 3day, can i continue to do daily refresh after 4 refreshment, then another 4 refreshment before use? Or should I keep in water bath?
Yes you can. Or do the chiller (16C) refreshment daily
Hi, wat did u do with the discard?
I'm wondering what brand is the pH tester you're using and where can I find?
Hanna
Thx for this vidéo, but how you ve got first pasta madre?
I’ve got mine from an Italian chef. You can also make it by converting from liquid starter. It will take more time though. This website teach how to do it
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
Hi. Would you pleaseeeee tell me what to do if my pasta madre doesn't rise or at least doesn't triple. Do you think that putting it in a closed jar has someting to do with it? Where I live, kitchen temperature is 31 degrees and humidity is about 80%.
Pleeease advise! 🙏
I’m living in tropic too. I guess the flour used is important. You may want to experiment to try with different flour that your pasta madre will work with
Autumn, what will you do with dried outer layer of PM?
Discard
Do we need to do 4 days refreshments if we are not using it for baking?
To wake it up I would at least do bagnetto follow with one chiller refreshment (16-20hr) and one room temp (28c, 3:5-4hr) refreshment before keep back to fridge
Hi, may i know what's the water temperature for mixing and water bath? Thanks
Mixing I use ice water as mentioned in video. Water bath I use RT water
Thank you for sharing. Can I know how you convert from 100% starter into pasta madre?
She doesnt teach that cos her pm was gifted by her sinsei
check out Kristen (Full Proof Baking) website for converting liquid starter to pasta madre
fullproofbaking.gumroad.com/#ucprT
Hi autumn, the last pm can use to bake for how many panettone?
usually 4x500g pane uses about 100-140g pasta madre. you need to take into account of the dry crust that cannot be used.
How to make pasta madre? Thank you. ❤❤❤❤❤
You can follow this
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
Hi Autumn, thanks for sharing this video. I’ve watched it so many times! It’s very helpful to me but I’d like to ask you what’s the difference between the chiller refreshment and RT refreshment? Thank you
It gives different balance for the bacteria
@@autumn.kitchen thank you for your reply😊
When is it ready to be used ?
Hi Autumn, thank you so much for this video. I have managed to do it till the end and put the other half in the fridge. May I know how often do I need to feed the pasta madre left in the fridge? I will not be baking panettone often. Can I also use the pasta madre for Pandoro?
For the ratio you refresh and keep in fridge, it need a refreshment after a week
Yes you can use for pandoro. If you want to keep longer in fridge, you can refresh higher ratio 1:3 or 1:4 etc
@@autumn.kitchen thank you for your response. and thank you so much for your Panettone recipe and instructions. I adapted it, and it turned out really good. I was so happy. Of it was not perfect but was really good enough for home consumption. thanks again.
@@autumn.kitchen thank you
好喜歡你製作的烘焙作品,也非常想學習如何培養野酵硬種,但我看不懂英文,可以有中文解說嗎？非常感謝中秋節快樂
不好意思，这个视频中文还没放上去。这两天我会把中文字幕放上去，再通知你。谢谢😊
@@autumn.kitchen 謝謝你的幫忙
@@autumn.kitchen 再請教影片一開始你先從冰箱拿出用布包裹的硬種是如何製作的？如果我只有天然酵母如何製作？
有比例配方嗎
May I know how to make this pasta madre? Is it the same thing as your sweet stiff starter ?
You can follow this website on the conversion
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
So much effort 👏 I respect that. Btw what the biggest difference between liquid sourdough starter and pasta madre
Flour to water ratio? Liquid starter is mixed with all the water, rather than just submerged in it like pasta madre
Flavor!! Pasta madre has more lactic acid
what is the final temperature of the pasta madre before storing it?
I would prefer it to be 28C to kick start some activity before storing it
how come u have diff hydration level for diff day? and when do we know when P.M is ready to use?
The stage of pasta madre is different. After sugar bath the pasta madre is wetter. Hence diff hydration used
Hello. What is the purpose of a "water refreshment"? Thank you!
From what I understand, it helps to correct the acidity between lactic and acetic.
硬種和一般魯邦種於風味上的差異明顯嗎？以及是否有除了風味以外的其他優勢呢？因為看起來真的非常費工......
潘尼多尼一般都是用硬種，我相信背後有很多科學研究支持所以才會廣汎被運用
Thanks for sharing that with us!!! You are amazing!
I Have a question: if i will use it between 4 to 7 days, what Day i Need to return to continue de process?
Sorry don’t quite get your question.
Hi...to use the 2nd part of pasta madre that stored in the fridge, do I have to do the 4 days refreshment steps starting from 15 minutes bagnetto again??
If pasta madre has been kept in fridge, then you need to activate it from the beginning again from bagnetto
@@autumn.kitchen thank you so much for sharing....❤
Dear friend: Thank you for your detailed recipe for Lievito Madre. I have an unusual problem: When I give my LM a bath, I squeeze the pieces to get air out and place in the water with sugar. The pieces always go to the bottom, and in a couple of minutes, they float. Now, they are NOT floating, and so get in touch directly with the sugar and form a skin, staying in the bottom all the time! Any idea why this happens? Thank you for your wise advice:)
I don’t squeeze so hard. The more compact you squeeze it , i believe it will be more dense and hence not floating. As long as you sugar batch it, the floating doesn’t really matter to me
@@autumn.kitchen Thank you, it seems my LM needed a rest:) Refrigerated 48 hrs., and is all happy floating again in it's water bath for refreshment:)
My lievito madre is not tripling after the 3 refreshments would you advise continual refreshments at 26 C every 4 hours to strengthen it ?
I would prefer to run the 16-18C cycle once and 28C cycle once daily. Means one chiller one RT refreshment until it is stronger
@@autumn.kitchen thank you for your quick reply and your generous sharing of your expertise. Will try again using your advice. Wishing u a Merry Christmas 🎄
Hi, How many days does PM keep in the fridge before refreshing?
Thanks!!!
Depending on the ratio you refresh. If 1:1 usually I keep for 4-5days. 1:3 for 2-3 weeks
@@autumn.kitchen Thanks teacher!😍😍😍
I have starter 100%hydration , how to make it to be like madre from the beginning??
Hi you can try convert your liquid starter to stiff starter following this blog
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
hi The apple yeast and anaerobic fermentation went very smoothly. The first mixing was 1;1;0.4 and the pH value of the dough roll dropped to about 5.0+ on the second day of storage (I used the method of immersing it in water and it surfaced quickly. and the fermentation is very vigorous).
However, in the update on the third day, its PH value did not drop to 6+ and it was very sticky, and the fermentation speed was also much slower (it probably took more than 12 hours to surface). Is this normal?
Later I decided to divide it into two doughs, one of which was in water and the other kept dry.
The dough in the water took a long time to float to the surface, and the gluten was completely destroyed when I took it out, so I gave up on it.
The dough that was kept dry fermented very slowly and was sticky in the next two days, and the smell of fermentation was not very sufficient. It still maintained some fermentation, but the pH value remained at around 5-6.
I put them in a warm place, the temperature is about 20-23 degrees Celsius
What happened to the yeast to make them inactive?
I'm so curious about what is the right number of the pH level?
4.2
I have a question about this pasta madre. In your experience all these years of taking such a good care of your pasta madre, do you think it is possible to build one with good strength from 100% hydration sourdough that can be compared to the one that passing down by your teacher during the time you learned this?
Yes it is possible. It takes time to stabilize it and maintain it like a pasta madre
Hi hi may i ask did u thaw it from freezer?
It was not frozen. Do you mean from fridge before doing bagnetto?
Hi how to do pasta madre ? Can you show us ?
check out Kristen (Full Proof Baking) website for converting liquid starter to pasta madre
fullproofbaking.gumroad.com/#ucprT
The reason pasta madre used in panettone is because of it's stronger "yeast effect" and flavor than compare to liquid sourdough starter? I guess with all fat contents in the panettone needs very strong leavening power. From your experience, how much pasta madre gives "leavening power" compare to fresh yeast?
There is not just yeast but bacteria in doing the leavening job. Amount of pasta madre goes with individual recipe as stated
Can do anything that use pasta madre ?
Panettone, Pandoro, Colomba etc
秋天老師好：請問捆綁好直接進冰箱冷藏4度C保存嗎？或需先在室溫中放置一段多久的時間後才進冷藏呢？謝謝您
我是直接放进冰箱
@@autumn.kitchen 好的！ 試了幾個您的食譜，都非常美味，謝謝您
Dear Autumn Kitchen(sorry, but dont know your real name), thank you for sharing this tutorial! Could you please tell, what is the “acceptable” acidity level of pasta madre to be used for panettone and other grandi lievitati? Thank you!
I am not an expert but my practise is my pasta madre pH is between 4.1-4.2 before adding to my first dough.
Is it problem if my pm goes on bottom on bagnetto?
It actually depends on how much you compress the pm before bagnetto.
how to start making pasta madre, Mrs ?
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
May I know how to make pasta madre?
You can convert your liquid starter following this website.
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
Well, I would like to show me, or to sent me a link, how to make pasta madre, step by step.
Hi you can follow this blogger process 😊
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
Is that a wine chiller?
Yes
how to made the PM before day 1?
Try follow this blog 😊
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
Hi, may I know how to build a lievito madre? can you recommend some site? Thanks thanks
Hi you can try this website
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
@@autumn.kitchen Thanks. Will definitely try this out. However, rather different from other websiites, it has no mention on “sugar bath” or “water bath”, these 2 process are not necessary as I see you have included these process in your RUclips channel of how to maintain lievito madre.
There are many school of teaching actually. Just try out and see how it works 😉
@@autumn.kitchen thanks.
why need to make a cross ? why need to roll up when place in water ?
This is optional
Thanks a lot for your recipe, can I ask any recommendation to use the dry peel? I feel kinda guilty for throw it away. :(
You can’t use that
you could throw it in your compost, if you have one. At least it will go back to benefit earth's soil web! I wonder, if you soaked it and pulverized it, could it be used as a substitute for the discard in a sourdough discard recipe, or at least substitute for some of the water and flour in the recipe? Could be an opportunity for an experiment!? Subject for another video? I'm sure there would be interest in this for all those who may want to do this maintenance and feel the same way about discarding starters !?
Mau i know for recepi make pasta marde Miss
You can check out here
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
我也是在马来西亚的。没有可控温的发酵箱确实不能做好。但是刚开始尝试，只能放冰箱。我养了快一个月了，还活着。不过不理解的是，为什么我的水式酵母表皮都不会像你的这样干燥呢？都是在水里都快化了表皮也还没干燥😓
酵母水份过高吗？
@@autumn.kitchen 那天问了你之后，突然想到，会不会是因为我都有盖上盖子的原因。昨天就试了一次不盖上，果然很快就风干表皮。但是其实表皮要干燥的原因是什么呢？有什么好处吗？
@@autumn.kitchen 还有我放水里养的时候很容易化掉。是不是面粉筋度不够高？
What flour do you use to maintain your PM?
Japanese high protein flour
@@autumn.kitchen is there a minimum protein percentage you are aiming for, for those of us who live where Japanese high protein flour is not available? For ex., would any artisan bread flour with at least 14% protein work?
How to start process when I don't have pasta madre?
You can convert your liquid stater following this blog
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
Hi! What is the brand of pH meter you use?
It is Hanna
Do you have recipes for the discard?
Too sour. But you can try
@@kahlingchan6315 Oo I see. Thank you 🙏🏻
Where is the recipe to make the stiff starter?
You can convert your liquid starter to stiff starter following this blog
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
請問怎樣開始做酵母？
你可以參考這個
www.pantrymama.com/pasta-madre/
There has to be way of doing this without a chiller ! who has a chiller???? Nobody in a little village in Italy had a chiller !
They didn't have electric chillers, but they all had a root cellar, or a cantina, which would have temps in that range year round. Most of us dont have those so we use electric chillers...you can get a cheap wine fridge on marketplace. But Pannetone is a pretty modern product. Most people (probably no one) in Italy would have had access to W350+ flour needed to make this until about 125 years ago either.
請問、餵養硬種的麵粉蛋白質是多少？
我用12.5-13%
@@autumn.kitchen 謝謝～回覆😊