How to turn your HarborFreight bench grinder to a belt sander DIY

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  • Опубликовано: 22 авг 2021
  • thanks for watching my video subscribe so i can upload more video!!!
    Lorenzo Santiago
    Homemade 2x72 belt grinder • Homemade 2x72 belt san...

Комментарии • 189

  • @sketabug1259
    @sketabug1259 2 года назад

    I have all this stuff just laying around and I do need a new belt sander in the shop thank you for the great build ideas for the extra material i have laying around.

  • @arblacksmithingandrewrowle1682
    @arblacksmithingandrewrowle1682 2 года назад +10

    I am crazy jealous of that fabrication table.

  • @KRev-nb7gc
    @KRev-nb7gc 2 года назад +1

    Once I saw the mounting table I knew sh!t was gonna get real!! Learned alot thanks

  • @argee55
    @argee55 2 года назад +3

    Great design and execution. Well done.

  • @ArcanePath360
    @ArcanePath360 10 месяцев назад +5

    I like how you use a belt sander to make a belt sander.

    • @gageh6901
      @gageh6901 4 месяца назад

      Was coming to same the same thing🤣🤣

    • @rexxar32
      @rexxar32 2 месяца назад

      haha, I thought the same, but to be fair, I don't think the build relies on the belt sander

  • @Imwright720
    @Imwright720 Год назад

    Nicely done and a great money saver for those that want a belt grinder

  • @homemadetools
    @homemadetools 2 года назад +1

    Clever HF mod. We shared this video in our homemade tools forum this week :)

  • @paulcotesr5623
    @paulcotesr5623 2 года назад +1

    "Ouch" that's a hot spot , that sander is a good Idea ty

  • @woodybear8298
    @woodybear8298 2 года назад +1

    Serious skills are on display here.

  • @erikberglund6959
    @erikberglund6959 2 года назад

    Simple and genius!!! Thank you🙂👍

  • @ChristopherSalisburySalz
    @ChristopherSalisburySalz 2 года назад +1

    Yeah that metal gets red hot fast!! 😂 Wow I am really impressed. Looks like the grinder powers it great!.

  • @olejake1932
    @olejake1932 2 года назад +7

    add some support on the backside of that steel plate. Lot of weight and pressure on those three little screws in that pot metal frame on that motor

  • @Scott_C
    @Scott_C 2 года назад +14

    5:23 use your amazing belt sander to convert your bench grinder into a probably passably useful belt sander. Great idea...

  • @ChristopherSalisburySalz
    @ChristopherSalisburySalz 2 года назад +3

    It looks like that Hercules grinder is a good buy. Looks like it has great power and it's variable speed.

  • @paulrafala9653
    @paulrafala9653 2 года назад +3

    Nice job on this. Was looking for ideas on my own build, this really helps. Thanks for the link to the wheels, gonna try a 3" version with an older salvaged motor.

  • @JeepArmyUSA
    @JeepArmyUSA 2 года назад +3

    When he started using the real belt sander I 🤨. 😆😆 Still a good vid! Thank you.

  • @MrTate1970
    @MrTate1970 6 месяцев назад

    That's awesome Buddy. Good job.

  • @2869may
    @2869may 2 года назад +1

    That's awesome..! The only thing I would change is the steel beyond the top front wheel, It could be in the way in some circumstances.

  • @shaheenamrou
    @shaheenamrou Год назад

    Thats really cool and amazing idea . Very well done 👍👌.

  • @bulletproofpepper2
    @bulletproofpepper2 2 года назад

    Thanks for sharing!

  • @danlynch1154
    @danlynch1154 Год назад

    Very nice build

  • @dougcunningham8146
    @dougcunningham8146 2 года назад

    Nice work!

  • @jorgearturomontoyaz9600
    @jorgearturomontoyaz9600 2 года назад +1

    Se aprecia este proyecto ,para que tengamos una idea de como hacerlo , GRACIAS .

  • @tevya017
    @tevya017 Год назад

    Is that portable drill /mill press (evolution) readily available?

  • @barrylinkiewich9688
    @barrylinkiewich9688 2 года назад +8

    I think you'd get more reliable tracking if you swapped the back lower crowned wheel to the tracking arm but otherwise this is a great build to help show folks how to build a smaller, less involved belt grinder using a piece of equipment they may already have.
    I love my shop built 2x72" but it's a LOT of machine if I just need to clean up a small part or a couple edges.

    • @johnanon658
      @johnanon658 10 месяцев назад

      Im not so sure about crowned wheels being good for tracking

  • @oisinogorman35
    @oisinogorman35 2 года назад +2

    Hey I don't know if this question has been asked but I'm curious how much power that grinder has? I'd like to convert mine but I don't know if I have a powerful enough bench grinder, what would you recommend for minimum power requirements to make a useful belt grinder out of a bench grinder for knife making

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад +1

      If you want to build one buy the Dewalt size 8 had a lot power

  • @Rudimentary007
    @Rudimentary007 9 месяцев назад

    I can dig it.👍🇺🇸

  • @DavidsProfession
    @DavidsProfession Год назад

    nice job

  • @carlrockberg3187
    @carlrockberg3187 2 года назад

    What are the roller pieces called and what size/spring load is the spring? After that I can do the rest. Thanks Carl

  • @jarcineymilhomemcaldas1954
    @jarcineymilhomemcaldas1954 Месяц назад

    Excelente parabéns

  • @boltonky
    @boltonky Год назад

    Soon as i see a fixture table, your already well beyond my workshop by any means and nice way to make a belt sander there are lots of ways to skin a cat

  • @jimdeprey6584
    @jimdeprey6584 2 года назад +21

    I just love this simple belt sander. Would you by chance have a set of plans for the metal parts and wheels, even if they're hand draw including measurements? I would love to make this belt sander...

    • @carlrockberg3187
      @carlrockberg3187 2 года назад +1

      I could figure it out if I knew where to get those rollers anybody got any ideas or what R the rollers called and I could take it from there

    • @eas1404
      @eas1404 2 года назад

      ​@@carlrockberg3187 You could use bearings

    • @carlrockberg3187
      @carlrockberg3187 2 года назад

      @@eas1404 I saw one made with bearings I think I'm going to copy that

    • @carlrockberg3187
      @carlrockberg3187 2 года назад

      Jim the 6204 bearings are pretty common and about 6 bucks a copy, after that its pretty much all down hill. I'm not taking anything away from Lorenzo, after all if he hadn't done it I don't think I could have thought it up. So hats off to you Lorenzo! I'm better at coping stuff than designing them myself. Im going to copy that electric hoist that looks like a cherry picker but I'm going to use a air over hydraulic ram to lift the boom. As A matter of fact Harbor freight has them on clearance right now for 99.95, the cheapest anywhere, I already got mine. You have to watch that video a few times to figure it all out, one more tip. Check out your local trash company that makes their own and repairs dumpsters, Varner brothers one of the main trash collectors here in town have the best prices on heavy duty 2 x 6 casters, so if you are building something and need heavy duty casters check your local trash collection agency, U will probably figure out that the place for large casters. that electric winch he used is 65 bucks from Toolots.com . Just google 12 volt 3000 lb electric winches and it should come up, the exact same one he uses in the video . He also uses 3 x 3 x 3/16 wall square tube that the 2 1/2" q tb slides in U can also use 3 x 3 x 1/4 wall receiver tubing if you want to go heavier or buy regular seamed 3 x 3 x 1/4 wall and watch the video on how to take out the weld in the tubing

    • @rogermccaslin5963
      @rogermccaslin5963 Год назад +3

      @@carlrockberg3187
      I know I'm a little late but you can google "belt grinder wheels" and get a bunch of results from single wheels to kits.

  • @rogermccaslin5963
    @rogermccaslin5963 Год назад

    How is the drive wheel secured to the shaft?

  • @abitoffcenter383
    @abitoffcenter383 11 месяцев назад

    Well done Sir!!
    Oh and that's probably going to be a little hot. 😁

  • @vincentcocuzza8679
    @vincentcocuzza8679 Год назад

    What size belt did you make this grinder?

  • @samiam4544
    @samiam4544 2 года назад +1

    Nice build. Although most people do not have your level of tools.

    • @TheCoffeehound
      @TheCoffeehound 2 года назад

      Most of the tools he used just made it easier and faster. You could use a hacksaw to cut most of the metal parts, a file to clean the burrs off and a cheap electric drill to drill the holes.

  • @wildbilllogistics574
    @wildbilllogistics574 Год назад

    Santiago would you please do a review on your magnetic drill press you use in this video?

  • @christopherlabarge6364
    @christopherlabarge6364 2 года назад +2

    you should make kits and put them up for sale so people can buy them because not everyone will have the tools to make it but would be willing to buy them you could even do different styles of the back plate to get different angles just throwing that out to you Chris

  • @itdock
    @itdock 10 месяцев назад

    hmm, won't the wheels wear out soon under machine power since there are no bearings?

  • @unalmk_
    @unalmk_ 2 года назад

    why attached to motor shaft disk is big than other disk . is this necessary ?

  • @RogerF
    @RogerF 2 года назад

    Skills.

  • @SimplyStreetClothing
    @SimplyStreetClothing 7 месяцев назад

    What belt sander were you in the build

  • @skip7243
    @skip7243 2 года назад +1

    You need to invest in a plasma cutter, IMO,LOL!

  • @scottingram6169
    @scottingram6169 2 года назад

    Great build dude. If I may ask, where did you get your sweet fab table?

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад +2

      I bought it from northern tool $200 very cheap in my opinion

  • @KING-NOMAD
    @KING-NOMAD Год назад

    Hi, please tell me what kind of model of electric sharpener you use I want to buy one

  • @epicfail5707
    @epicfail5707 2 года назад

    At 2:00 minutes you can see the layout is already on the metal. Uses a marker everyone can see what he's doing. The wheel set is about $90, time to make probably 4 hours. Best bet is to just buy a combo bench grinder that has a 2 x 42-inch sander attached. If you can't afford to buy, then you could always go to Harbor Freight. Impressive tools in the shop, not the average set of tools used to make this.

  • @jcoyier
    @jcoyier 2 года назад +1

    great project. Where did the steel table and clamp system come from?

  • @OmerFaruk-di6up
    @OmerFaruk-di6up 2 года назад

    Güzel çalışma.Bence tahrik tekeri arka tarafta olsa daha güzel olurda yapmış olduğun tablayi ters çevir öyle dene

  • @ChrisTheMobileMechanic
    @ChrisTheMobileMechanic 2 года назад

    Did you add all those nuts to the holes in your welding table? Is that a Klutch welding table you moded?

  • @OffRoadRN
    @OffRoadRN 2 года назад

    So let me see if I have this correctly. If you have an expensive belt grinder, you can use it to make a cheap belt grinder?

  • @rexcowan4314
    @rexcowan4314 2 года назад +1

    Great video, easy to follow and nice work. Where did you get the wheels and bolts? Thank you.

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад +3

      www.ebay.com/itm/Belt-Grinder-2-x72-Polyacetal-Delrin-Whee-4-Drive-5-8-bore-3-track-2-Idler-/193187757726?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

    • @nateb4543
      @nateb4543 2 года назад

      @Santiago’s Projects dang! $60 just for the wheels? Seems like something that could be found cheaper from a different application. Are they special in any way?

    • @tfr6
      @tfr6 2 года назад +1

      @@nateb4543 longboard wheels are better

    • @Thundermuffin93
      @Thundermuffin93 2 года назад +1

      @@nateb4543 Delran isnt usually cheap....longboards wheels are urethane...probably quite a bit softer. Idk. $60 definitely is not fun....better than cost of big belt grinders I guess?

  • @MikeMiller-fc2cc
    @MikeMiller-fc2cc 2 года назад

    Why didn't you use the holes in the guard for the shaft and screws holes as. A pattern

  • @crj7218
    @crj7218 3 месяца назад

    Mi like desde España 🇪🇦, no le pasa nada al esmeril de corriente al estar atornillado y soldando?,un saludo maestro

  • @johnlerwill9831
    @johnlerwill9831 11 месяцев назад

    It would be great if you could give us links to buy the wheels.

  • @memphisprince2001
    @memphisprince2001 Месяц назад

    Do you have any build plans

  • @user-ev8uz5bp8g
    @user-ev8uz5bp8g 2 года назад

    Спасибо Брат за быстрое и кач. видео ! Тоже себе хочу сделать Гриндер , но УВЫ , не хватает 1 миллиона , на приобритение таких станков и инструмента , а так пустяки .....

  • @carlphillips1833
    @carlphillips1833 2 года назад +1

    Great build. I saw the link below for the wheels however what bolts and spacers are you using to make sure the wheels are lined up? Also what size piece of steel did you start with? Thanks for the info.

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад +1

      I’m Using 1/2 bolt 3 inch long spacers comes with the wheels 3/16 thickness plate 12x12

    • @carlphillips1833
      @carlphillips1833 2 года назад

      @@SantiagosProjects thanks for the information!

    • @johnanon658
      @johnanon658 10 месяцев назад

      @@SantiagosProjects
      What belt length?

  • @Ivegotwormsinme
    @Ivegotwormsinme 11 месяцев назад

    How many RPM are you running that thing at? I have the old orange one going to waste, but it runs at 3200RPM I believe. I think mine may run too fast to convert it to something like this. I have the means and materials, but I'm not sure about speed. It'd be a good thing to turn it into if it's possible at those speeds. I sure would like to know!

    • @johnanon658
      @johnanon658 10 месяцев назад

      Use a smaller drive wheel if you want the belt to run slower. Formula for SFCM is circumference of wheel in inches x RPMs/12.

  • @silverbullet7434
    @silverbullet7434 2 года назад +1

    Think you need a nut on drive pulley?? Nice build

  • @thesquirrelchroniclesakare7808
    @thesquirrelchroniclesakare7808 2 года назад

    If you switch the polarity on the wires it would rotate in the opposite direction for safety...

  • @Rood67
    @Rood67 2 месяца назад

    Execution is superb, great talent.
    But to buy everything to do this, I’d just buy a pre-built belt sander like the one used to make this… belt sander.

  • @tlbcustom1297
    @tlbcustom1297 2 года назад

    May get better tracking if you add a nut to the drive wheel.

  • @hocuspocus4871
    @hocuspocus4871 2 года назад +4

    I enjoyed watching the build. I don't understand it though. The bench grinder costs $139.99 at Harbor Freight right now. Plus another $100 in parts. Or you could buy a 4"x 36" belt and 6" disk sander combo for $89.99 and a 1" x 30" belt sander for $59.99. Buying both would still be cheaper than making this.

    • @Panzersoldat
      @Panzersoldat 2 года назад +1

      I am just guessing but I am going to assume that sanders and grinders are two different animals. I seem to recall that grinders need to run at much higher speeds and torque than sanders since they are dealing with dense metals and not comparably soft woods.

    • @ryanpeterson5239
      @ryanpeterson5239 2 года назад

      If you're talking about the 1x30 belt sander HF sells, I have it and it's pretty much junk. I don't have the 4x36 but I've looked at it in the store and it doesn't appear to be much better

    • @testadumed7035
      @testadumed7035 2 года назад

      You can of course by them, but ! -Then you miss the joy of making it your self. Everything can be found cheeper in the hardware store

    • @barrylinkiewich9688
      @barrylinkiewich9688 2 года назад

      The 4x36 belt sanders are slooooow, they don't move the belt fast enough for metal so you'd be all week trying to grind anything and probably burn through a lot of belts. The 1x30 sanders are typically even worse, although I haven't used one of the Harbor Fright ones in particular I had a Delta that I got rid of because it wasn't suitable for my purposes.
      Sanders for wood, grinders for metal although if you're in a big hurry and don't mind potentially burning the wood you can finish wood on a belt grinder.

  • @aahebib5058
    @aahebib5058 2 года назад

    Bonjour Monsieur c'est une très jolie ponceuse à bande est-ce que vous avez les plans en format PDF s'il vous plaît merci ???

  • @inthefreytoo
    @inthefreytoo 2 года назад +1

    Really nice build! Good Job! However, like in all but a few of these DIY videos, you need to have $5000 worth of shop tools to build it and it costs $150 to buy off the shelf.

    • @bobfisterburger1085
      @bobfisterburger1085 2 года назад +1

      That could easily be done with an angle grinder, a hand drill, and a flat file.

    • @inthefreytoo
      @inthefreytoo 2 года назад

      @@bobfisterburger1085 Um, If you have nothing else to do and all the time in the world. Yep! Sure could.

  • @carlossanchez8534
    @carlossanchez8534 Год назад

    Do you sell them?

  • @jimlassiter749
    @jimlassiter749 2 года назад

    But only if you have lots of expensive tools & a well lit workshop.....
    I'd love to see a vid like this (one of many YT channels professing easy DIY builds) where something similar is built with a tree stump (aka workshop) & a hammer, flat blade screwdriver & scrapwood.... (4 empty duct tape cardboard rolls would work for the sandpaper roller btw....)
    Just sayin'.....
    Otherwise, well done!

    • @TheCoffeehound
      @TheCoffeehound 2 года назад

      Hacksaw, a drill and a file would work for most of it, if you don't mind spending time and sweat.

  • @davew4304
    @davew4304 Год назад

    Now make one that runs off an angle grinder 😁

  • @carlosfreitasmartins3567
    @carlosfreitasmartins3567 4 месяца назад

    tem as medidas?

  • @daveedwards6567
    @daveedwards6567 2 года назад

    Good job 👍

  • @camro177
    @camro177 Год назад

    Lock tight dem screws!

  • @tommylud4324
    @tommylud4324 7 месяцев назад

    Please humor us..if we re looking to DIY-modify HARBOR FREIGHT Then we probable have smaller tools haha. That being said..thankyou, im going to do something similar this week!!

  • @pappy451
    @pappy451 2 года назад

    you need to manufacture this as a kit .
    bet they'd sell . i'd buy one .

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад

      I sold 15 of them before $210 for everything wheels belts plate except the bench grinder but I stopped making them because the bench grinder it’s under power

    • @pappy451
      @pappy451 2 года назад

      @@SantiagosProjects . . . ahhh the things that you don't know .
      but . . . a larger bench grinder ?
      i have an oooolllldddd one . it's huge . might work .

  • @EddieOakes
    @EddieOakes 2 года назад +1

    Dude this is pure genius! Awesome! Subbed!

  • @tomd8133
    @tomd8133 2 года назад +3

    Do you have a supplier for the wheels?

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад

      Here is the link www.ebay.com/itm/Belt-Grinder-2-x72-Polyacetal-Delrin-Whee-4-Drive-5-8-bore-3-track-2-Idler-/193187757726?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

    • @tomd8133
      @tomd8133 2 года назад

      @@SantiagosProjects thanks

    • @cn8484
      @cn8484 2 года назад

      Where did you get the table? at really nice mounting table

  • @hoangbinh961
    @hoangbinh961 10 месяцев назад

    First one showed missing parts. Second one was complete. It's a working bench grinder ruclips.net/user/postUgkxxC8HPnl24fu0XhMU_nbmWNEUoK1RMHXk . One thing I like alot is that it's surprisingly quiet. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing any rpms or power for the quietness either. All in all it's a very nice machine. No vibration whatsoever.

  • @rogerwhiting9310
    @rogerwhiting9310 2 года назад

    Links wouldnt open

  • @chevymunk78
    @chevymunk78 Год назад

    Maybe could have traced th shield you took off too😊

  • @shortattentionspangarage1312
    @shortattentionspangarage1312 2 года назад

    I know it's only been a few months but do you still have all your fingers? jk, nice mod.

  • @Ramzes102-kk3bb
    @Ramzes102-kk3bb 9 месяцев назад

    Столько металла и роликов совсем не нужно,хватило бы пару роликов и немного металла,один ролик на моторе и другой на натяжение ленты,все остальное удорожание конструкции и перевод материала!¡

  • @ChristopherSalisburySalz
    @ChristopherSalisburySalz 2 года назад

    You could sell a kit for this. It would only work though if it was not a ton of money. If its a ton then people will just buy a finished product. I would be interested in something like this for $100 to $150. I have no idea if that is reasonable for the materials but that's the price range that would catch my attention. I have no idea what the materials would cost. How much do you think you spent on materials?

  • @Mrpatrick1661
    @Mrpatrick1661 19 дней назад

    Bonjour, vous pourriez nous donner Les plans svp merci !

  • @classicstangbrn8964
    @classicstangbrn8964 2 года назад +2

    Because you can't have to many belt sanders, also why wouldn't you just drill all the holes with your drill press.

  • @nghjavan9493
    @nghjavan9493 2 года назад

    Tôi muốn mua nó. Bạn có bán không? 😅

  • @AlCatrraz
    @AlCatrraz 10 месяцев назад

    GRAN IDEA.................

  • @joeclark9042
    @joeclark9042 2 года назад

    Hey bud I know this is a no video I just seen it been anyhow hey where can I get a table like that at with those clamps and stuff can you help me out bro appreciate you

    • @carlrockberg3187
      @carlrockberg3187 2 года назад

      U will have to takeout a second mortgage to pay for a table like that, they R High Dollar pieces

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад +1

      I bought it from northern tool $200

    • @arizona5253
      @arizona5253 11 месяцев назад

      @@SantiagosProjects do you have a link to that table at northern?

  • @corydriver7634
    @corydriver7634 2 года назад

    Nice build. Can you give us a link to where you sourced the wheels?

    • @nateb4543
      @nateb4543 2 года назад

      Hes included a link on other comments. I didnt know what to expect, but they were more expensive than i wouldve thought

    • @rogerwhiting9310
      @rogerwhiting9310 2 года назад

      @@nateb4543 they wouldnt open for me

  • @BeaulieuTodd
    @BeaulieuTodd 7 месяцев назад

    You need a belt sander to make this belt sander.

  • @jesussantiagogarciacalvill4940
    @jesussantiagogarciacalvill4940 2 года назад +1

    Podrías mandar las medidas compañero

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад +1

      www.ebay.com/itm/Belt-Grinder-2-x72-Polyacetal-Delrin-Whee-4-Drive-5-8-bore-3-track-2-Idler-/193187757726?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

    • @SantiagosProjects
      @SantiagosProjects  2 года назад

      Plate 3/16 thickness 12x12

  • @ericcapucci9869
    @ericcapucci9869 8 месяцев назад

    why couldnt you just use the guard as the template for the holes

  • @jasoncornish2904
    @jasoncornish2904 Год назад

    So it looks like I'd need a belt sander to make a belt sander in which case, why would I make a belt sander if I already had one?

  • @WV591
    @WV591 2 года назад

    TU awesome work. somebody can make and sell this as a kit.

  • @cabela7869
    @cabela7869 2 года назад +1

    am i the only one that pick up on he using a 1000 dollar belt sander to make a Getto belt sander.

  • @tristanmayton6764
    @tristanmayton6764 2 года назад

    Man is there anyway I can still get this conversion kit?

  • @maxhorowitz-gelb6092
    @maxhorowitz-gelb6092 Год назад

    so you need a belt sander to make a belt sander?

  • @romanbelov2989
    @romanbelov2989 2 года назад

    Лента очень слабо натянута, работа гриндера продемонстрирована на тонком металле, а приложить металл по всей ширине ленты и нажать, то лента убежит в сторону 100%, в дверной петле люфты лютые, жёсткости маятникового узла ролика нет, поэтому и пружина выбрана слабая, что бы ось ролика не отклонялась в сторону, что бы на видео показать работающий гриндер, но по факту он не работает как надо!

  • @CUDA1970Terry
    @CUDA1970Terry 2 года назад

    An honest Video. Metal got hot on first grind, turned to do second spot and got burnt. Good video.

  • @jeffh4505
    @jeffh4505 2 года назад

    Using a belt sander to make a belt sander. That one hurt my head

  • @apacheone3643
    @apacheone3643 2 года назад +2

    You must be kidding 3 machine screws hold that plate to the grinder ?
    Those are butter screws and WILL FAIL !
    YOU NEED TO REINFORCE THAT PLATE BEFORE YOU HURT YOURSELF .

  • @scottkinkead6324
    @scottkinkead6324 2 года назад

    You did way more screwing around than that was worth !