I feel like this story is beyond sad. It's like the werewolves don't know how to work together despite all they have suffered. I mean the fact that they don't trust Vamps or Mages and hardly anyone or anything else, it's no wonder they're in the mess they're in. Sometimes I find it hard to feel sorry for them. From some of the lore I've read online, apparently in the past the Garou attacked and killed regular people. Of course their weakness was found out, silver, and they suffered greatly for it.
@@Razamaniac True and that isn't making things any better for them. Personally it's my own "head cannon", but I think head cannon wise, the Wyrm won in the old World of Darkness continuity.
@@fireorb2 Head cannon is actually that humanity is in the brink of extinction, with the veil lifted and every kind of monsters roaming the earth eatting people and ending civilization, there is a mistery though on IF there is any Garou alive, with most of major npcs dead.
I agree with you. It's a difficult life being Kinfolk, and the resentment is there in many of them, even if they know it's wrong and they try to ignore it.
@@ThePrimogen and yes the kinfolk fate is unknown, is there anyone still around ? Did the Garou actually made it to survive through their remaining Kin ? Or every kin turned to become a normal wolf or human since Gaia has no need of protectors anymore ? Or She has just put the Garou genes in slumber just in order to awaken them again when needed ? MAN that would have been a great and challenging camapaign, to play a New age Garou that has a tribal lineage but no tribe, which tries to start his Tribe's lineage from the start. With only help a kinfolk parent who remembers very precious few from his Garou relatives !
Time to go play a kinfolk with gnosis, mage, true faith, Do user, fey blood, (if I can) either a ghoul or Revenant, and a formal infernalist. So when people ask me what am I, can laugh.
Sounds more like a Non Player Character than a Player Character. And more like a concept to think about than like an NPC. Like that Ventrue vampire I keep redesigning, who can only drink the blood of garou and kinfolk. Or the mage who believes he is a Garou, and reproduces the powers of a werewolf with true magic. Not quite as well as the Garou do, and in a much more restrict way that what the average mage with those spheres would (because he doesn't do anything a Garou with the gifts he thinks he has would). Or the guy who starts kinfolk, advances to skindancer (those people who got success in the ritual, after killing their 5 garou relatives, if I remember the name well) , and gets promoted to abomination. The ultimate self-made man of Wold of Darkness. After that all you can do is diablerise your way to third generation, in order to start your own vampiric clan of skindancer abominations.
Poor Tally. You were so close to being a Gaia fur baby. Instead, you became the Hound of the Amici Noctis before eventually being murdered by one of your own childer. RIP
@@catominor7306 Depends on your perspective, really. The I think the Lasombra are the coolest Clan, but they are still vampires. Your entire existence is cursed beyond measure and you’re forced to slowly lose all sense of humanity until you become a mere husk trying to survive. And if you’re particularly unfortunate, you were chosen for the sheer irony of it. A narcissist forced to slowly forget their own visage. A devout Priest or Imam having to use dark powers that eat away at their forsaken soul. (Please forgive me if I’m wrong but drawing powers from the Abyss hurts your soul, right?)
Matt Sway it is better then being at the top of the divine embodiment of destruction’s shit list and knowing that the world is going to end any day now and it is your fault. Besides having high humanity is overrated, join the low humanity gang. It has only one rule, don’t tell the Baron and/Prince about the Sabbo… gang I mean gang.
kinfolk yes I have an idea for them ... there must be some of them who are on the edge of the law ... so i thought of a birker gang called the bloodhounds associated with the get of fenris ... their main task is to hunt vampire gangs (sabbat? because the bloodhounds are from skandivia) ... their main income is to run guns and sell weed, hash and magic mushrooms (gaia friendly substances) ... the way it would seem is that there would be a chapter in be city where there is a get who is a member and the get will have the title of nomad ... so they can travel from chapter to chapter without any problems ... a nomad will have the right to take control of the chapter if he / she needs backup otherwise the chapter manages itself ... and well their motorcycles run on biofuel ... well it was just an idea for how to use kinfolk if you want to make it a little interesting ... and sorry for a little strange wording ... google translate and danish can be hard to work with sometimes ...
If i watch enough of these i may have enough knowledge to figure out how to kill one of these things as a vtm st lol i love crossovers as difficult as they are
Silver blades, silver bullets, also fire and explosives, if you have the right disciplines to resist frenzy. Avoid reflective surfaces (sidestep jump scares, not fun for vampires), and don't even bother showing up unless everyone in the party has minimum two dots in celerity, or it's those rage actions that will let the Garou blenderize your peeps. Edit: Also if you want to be a massive jerkass to your PC's, there's a hilarious gift called "False Comfort" that completely negates damage from all human-crafted weapons. I suggest bringing a Tzimisce and at least one Gangrel along for THAT disco.
You are a human that knows that monsters exist but you mostly see them in their human forms which makes you feel relaxed around them, if their Rage is not very high. Then you see those deformed monsters that no matter what form they take they always look horrible in many cases, from grotesquely monstrous appearances, to ugly deformities such as mismatched limbs, horrible stench on their bristled skins that makes them look like lepers and other nasty stuff. Horns may look cool, but imagine having a man around with horns on his head looking at you with a ravenous apetite for whoever knows what, that is trully scary even for kinfolk to be around. Since MEtis are always crinos at heart no matter what form they take.
I think that is going to be entirely dependent on how the Sept they are both associated with views them. Kinfolk may or may not be aware of the Litany, but they are certainly going to be aware of how the other members of the Sept view and treat the Garou Born. If they are treated as equals, they may not even realize there is a difference between them and Garou born of Man or Wolf. Even within a Sept where they are treated poorly though, it would be very possible for an individual Kinfolk to treat them better. They are after all still a Garou, and thus special.
Yeah as others have said, the Kinfolk are way too varied to have a unified perception on it, but I can imagine that it's certainly grounds for tough issues in the group. The Kinfolk might even enjoy having a Garou that is "beneath" them in some tribes, while others might instead be jealous that even the result of someone breaking the Litany "gets to be Garou" but they don't.
@@ThePrimogen then, there is this one abomination of a kinfolk that hated garou sp much he actually became one of them ... ahem ... we don't say names .... ahem ahem ...
Huh. This is relevant to my interests since my main OC is a kinfolk. So it IS possible to find out if your child may turn into a garou? I can't seem to find anything concrete about the subject.
I believe there are certain Gifts or Rites you may conduct, but I'm not 100% on which one, it's mentioned in the Kinfolk book that these sorts of rites were conducted, but I'm not sure if that's a Dark Ages thing or something that can still be done.
The book is a little vague on the specific rituals, but it does say that they exist. Either way, talk to your ST about it, they'll be the one that determines if a ritual like that is available in their game.
You can never be sure if you kid is full garou until it comes of age, so a kinfolk parent who knows about garou grows with the anxiety that one day her child will be forcibly taken away from her in a very young age (around 15-18 in most moderate cases) or worse, brought to her back dead after fighting the wyrm, With a message that he/she died a good death.
@@Razamaniac Yeah that seems to be the thing I've found looking through everything. There's mentions of rites, but nothing specific is ever given on WHAT they are, so there's no rites we can actively use that's canon. I simply play it that my character has a "gut feeling" about her daughter, because the kid is just...."not like everyone else" is prone to having a hell of a wild temper and very specific nightmares all about the same thing. She's had a talk with her mate about it, should he actually live that long (Bone gnawers don't really value chasing the good death so you know...) but its just an interesting and complicated idea. You're considered extremely valuable as a kinfolk if you have children, and especially if any of them become garou, but what does that do to the kinfolk parent?
@@Toering Yeahhhh i've not been able to really find a concrete rite or anything to draw on for it. The ST has kinda just said that while we can't really depend upon a rite, its likely since my character grew up in this world and is very, very aware of it, she'd probably just kinda recognize some things about her kid that she'd suspect she needed to raise her daughter closer to the sept and such.
In abstract feels to me that those are potentially even better characters than the Garou themselves. I never saw any adventure for kinfolk PCs only, but I suppose their point of view about the supernatural aspects of reality must be interesting. Since it is basically the normal people's perspective with the extra layer of privileged information. They are "werewolf ghouls" in a sense, but instead of being property and having the chance to hope for the promotion to people they are family. And hopeless. Being hopeless is a promising first step for a character. I think. You can never realize what you want the most. You will never be what you dream deeply in your hearth. The best you will ever have is consolation prize, having lost that. And those who got what you didn't are all around, sharing means and small talks. Sometimes saving your life, with their amazing powers. If you are lucky. Now that it is settle, where you go from that point? What you will do, whit the tools you have?
Did you also ask me this on the Reddit? The way it's worded in the W20 Kinfolk book, it would seem that it can be dormant for generations, which I interpreted as non-kinfolk still able to carry the "gene" if we go with that route, but that it might skip generations.
@@ThePrimogen that isn't what the book says at all. That is also counter to many things said in previous editions. I highly doubt anyone plays this way.
@@ThePrimogen thats.. not how genes work. Someone can have blonde hair as a gene but not have it show. Only to show in offspring. Someone who doesnt have the gene at all wouldnt have any chance outside of completely re-mutating the gene for it. If Gaia had control over who would become a kinfolk or lupine then the werewolves and other breeds wouldnt have to worry about extinction. At the end of the day this means that it *is* genetic that one becomes lupine or kinfolk.
Between kinfolk and ghouls, I prefer kinfolk. You don't have to go into the drug addiction metaphor if someone doesn't work to, especially new players.
And before I forget. Kin can be enchanted by changelings, become a wraith if the kin's connection is strong enough, mummified (yes, but more often fails), but not imbued by the messangers.
@@Demolitiondude It's not always just random chance, they can learn sorcery,, such as learning to become a Lesser Shaman, and attempt to earn the perk "struggling awake" which in the case of a Lesser Shaman, would Awaken the kinfolk into a full-blown Dreamspeaker. Dreamspeakers, especially those that started out as sept Shamans, can be on very good terms with the Garou (depending on the tribe and camp, of course).
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like this story is beyond sad. It's like the werewolves don't know how to work together despite all they have suffered. I mean the fact that they don't trust Vamps or Mages and hardly anyone or anything else, it's no wonder they're in the mess they're in. Sometimes I find it hard to feel sorry for them. From some of the lore I've read online, apparently in the past the Garou attacked and killed regular people. Of course their weakness was found out, silver, and they suffered greatly for it.
They don't even trust their own kind :P
@@Razamaniac True and that isn't making things any better for them. Personally it's my own "head cannon", but I think head cannon wise, the Wyrm won in the old World of Darkness continuity.
@@fireorb2 Head cannon is actually that humanity is in the brink of extinction, with the veil lifted and every kind of monsters roaming the earth eatting people and ending civilization, there is a mistery though on IF there is any Garou alive, with most of major npcs dead.
I agree with you. It's a difficult life being Kinfolk, and the resentment is there in many of them, even if they know it's wrong and they try to ignore it.
@@ThePrimogen and yes the kinfolk fate is unknown, is there anyone still around ? Did the Garou actually made it to survive through their remaining Kin ? Or every kin turned to become a normal wolf or human since Gaia has no need of protectors anymore ? Or She has just put the Garou genes in slumber just in order to awaken them again when needed ? MAN that would have been a great and challenging camapaign, to play a New age Garou that has a tribal lineage but no tribe, which tries to start his Tribe's lineage from the start. With only help a kinfolk parent who remembers very precious few from his Garou relatives !
Time to go play a kinfolk with gnosis, mage, true faith, Do user, fey blood, (if I can) either a ghoul or Revenant, and a formal infernalist.
So when people ask me what am I, can laugh.
Take it easy there Sam. ;)
Let's just hope you don't end up an ashtray!
Sounds more like a Non Player Character than a Player Character. And more like a concept to think about than like an NPC.
Like that Ventrue vampire I keep redesigning, who can only drink the blood of garou and kinfolk. Or the mage who believes he is a Garou, and reproduces the powers of a werewolf with true magic. Not quite as well as the Garou do, and in a much more restrict way that what the average mage with those spheres would (because he doesn't do anything a Garou with the gifts he thinks he has would).
Or the guy who starts kinfolk, advances to skindancer (those people who got success in the ritual, after killing their 5 garou relatives, if I remember the name well) , and gets promoted to abomination. The ultimate self-made man of Wold of Darkness. After that all you can do is diablerise your way to third generation, in order to start your own vampiric clan of skindancer abominations.
Poor Tally. You were so close to being a Gaia fur baby. Instead, you became the Hound of the Amici Noctis before eventually being murdered by one of your own childer. RIP
Yep. How different his life would have been.
Honestly being a Lasombra, even if only for a limited time, is a massive promotion over being a lupine.
@@catominor7306 Depends on your perspective, really. The I think the Lasombra are the coolest Clan, but they are still vampires. Your entire existence is cursed beyond measure and you’re forced to slowly lose all sense of humanity until you become a mere husk trying to survive. And if you’re particularly unfortunate, you were chosen for the sheer irony of it. A narcissist forced to slowly forget their own visage. A devout Priest or Imam having to use dark powers that eat away at their forsaken soul.
(Please forgive me if I’m wrong but drawing powers from the Abyss hurts your soul, right?)
Matt Sway it is better then being at the top of the divine embodiment of destruction’s shit list and knowing that the world is going to end any day now and it is your fault. Besides having high humanity is overrated, join the low humanity gang. It has only one rule, don’t tell the Baron and/Prince about the Sabbo… gang I mean gang.
@@catominor7306 you’ve got me there.
kinfolk yes I have an idea for them ...
there must be some of them who are on the edge of the law ...
so i thought of a birker gang called the bloodhounds associated with the get of fenris ...
their main task is to hunt vampire gangs (sabbat? because the bloodhounds are from skandivia) ...
their main income is to run guns and sell weed, hash and magic mushrooms (gaia friendly substances) ...
the way it would seem is that there would be a chapter in be city where there is a get who is a member and the get will have the title of nomad ...
so they can travel from chapter to chapter without any problems ...
a nomad will have the right to take control of the chapter if he / she needs backup otherwise the chapter manages itself ...
and well their motorcycles run on biofuel ...
well it was just an idea for how to use kinfolk if you want to make it a little interesting ...
and sorry for a little strange wording ... google translate and danish can be hard to work with sometimes ...
Sounds like a cool bunch! Kinfolks have a lot of potential! :D
You might want to consider including Gnawers in the group. They have a camp (Road Warriors) that are basically biker gangs.
@@thephoenix5 sure... it can work the gets and gnawers have some history together
If i watch enough of these i may have enough knowledge to figure out how to kill one of these things as a vtm st lol i love crossovers as difficult as they are
a whole life's effort XD, seriously its not difficult to kill a werewolf, its just more easy to kill a vampire.
Silver blades, silver bullets, also fire and explosives, if you have the right disciplines to resist frenzy. Avoid reflective surfaces (sidestep jump scares, not fun for vampires), and don't even bother showing up unless everyone in the party has minimum two dots in celerity, or it's those rage actions that will let the Garou blenderize your peeps.
Edit: Also if you want to be a massive jerkass to your PC's, there's a hilarious gift called "False Comfort" that completely negates damage from all human-crafted weapons. I suggest bringing a Tzimisce and at least one Gangrel along for THAT disco.
@@jasongrinstead6269 my my so many good plans that can go so bad XD
Hahaha, the tough part is the actual deed. ;)
@@ThePrimogen silver seems to make garou fight more easy, it seems :P
Lovely work again Primo ;)
Thank you! Cheers!
What is the general view of Garou-born-of-Garou by the wider kinfolk populations?
You are a human that knows that monsters exist but you mostly see them in their human forms which makes you feel relaxed around them, if their Rage is not very high. Then you see those deformed monsters that no matter what form they take they always look horrible in many cases, from grotesquely monstrous appearances, to ugly deformities such as mismatched limbs, horrible stench on their bristled skins that makes them look like lepers and other nasty stuff. Horns may look cool, but imagine having a man around with horns on his head looking at you with a ravenous apetite for whoever knows what, that is trully scary even for kinfolk to be around. Since MEtis are always crinos at heart no matter what form they take.
I think that is going to be entirely dependent on how the Sept they are both associated with views them. Kinfolk may or may not be aware of the Litany, but they are certainly going to be aware of how the other members of the Sept view and treat the Garou Born. If they are treated as equals, they may not even realize there is a difference between them and Garou born of Man or Wolf. Even within a Sept where they are treated poorly though, it would be very possible for an individual Kinfolk to treat them better. They are after all still a Garou, and thus special.
Yeah as others have said, the Kinfolk are way too varied to have a unified perception on it, but I can imagine that it's certainly grounds for tough issues in the group. The Kinfolk might even enjoy having a Garou that is "beneath" them in some tribes, while others might instead be jealous that even the result of someone breaking the Litany "gets to be Garou" but they don't.
@@ThePrimogen then, there is this one abomination of a kinfolk that hated garou sp much he actually became one of them ... ahem ... we don't say names .... ahem ahem ...
Huh. This is relevant to my interests since my main OC is a kinfolk. So it IS possible to find out if your child may turn into a garou? I can't seem to find anything concrete about the subject.
I believe there are certain Gifts or Rites you may conduct, but I'm not 100% on which one, it's mentioned in the Kinfolk book that these sorts of rites were conducted, but I'm not sure if that's a Dark Ages thing or something that can still be done.
The book is a little vague on the specific rituals, but it does say that they exist. Either way, talk to your ST about it, they'll be the one that determines if a ritual like that is available in their game.
You can never be sure if you kid is full garou until it comes of age, so a kinfolk parent who knows about garou grows with the anxiety that one day her child will be forcibly taken away from her in a very young age (around 15-18 in most moderate cases) or worse, brought to her back dead after fighting the wyrm, With a message that he/she died a good death.
@@Razamaniac Yeah that seems to be the thing I've found looking through everything. There's mentions of rites, but nothing specific is ever given on WHAT they are, so there's no rites we can actively use that's canon. I simply play it that my character has a "gut feeling" about her daughter, because the kid is just...."not like everyone else" is prone to having a hell of a wild temper and very specific nightmares all about the same thing. She's had a talk with her mate about it, should he actually live that long (Bone gnawers don't really value chasing the good death so you know...) but its just an interesting and complicated idea. You're considered extremely valuable as a kinfolk if you have children, and especially if any of them become garou, but what does that do to the kinfolk parent?
@@Toering Yeahhhh i've not been able to really find a concrete rite or anything to draw on for it. The ST has kinda just said that while we can't really depend upon a rite, its likely since my character grew up in this world and is very, very aware of it, she'd probably just kinda recognize some things about her kid that she'd suspect she needed to raise her daughter closer to the sept and such.
In abstract feels to me that those are potentially even better characters than the Garou themselves. I never saw any adventure for kinfolk PCs only, but I suppose their point of view about the supernatural aspects of reality must be interesting. Since it is basically the normal people's perspective with the extra layer of privileged information.
They are "werewolf ghouls" in a sense, but instead of being property and having the chance to hope for the promotion to people they are family. And hopeless.
Being hopeless is a promising first step for a character. I think.
You can never realize what you want the most. You will never be what you dream deeply in your hearth. The best you will ever have is consolation prize, having lost that. And those who got what you didn't are all around, sharing means and small talks. Sometimes saving your life, with their amazing powers. If you are lucky. Now that it is settle, where you go from that point?
What you will do, whit the tools you have?
Where did you see that two nonkin can breed and have a Garou ?
Did you also ask me this on the Reddit?
The way it's worded in the W20 Kinfolk book, it would seem that it can be dormant for generations, which I interpreted as non-kinfolk still able to carry the "gene" if we go with that route, but that it might skip generations.
@@ThePrimogen that isn't what the book says at all. That is also counter to many things said in previous editions. I highly doubt anyone plays this way.
@@ThePrimogen thats.. not how genes work. Someone can have blonde hair as a gene but not have it show. Only to show in offspring. Someone who doesnt have the gene at all wouldnt have any chance outside of completely re-mutating the gene for it. If Gaia had control over who would become a kinfolk or lupine then the werewolves and other breeds wouldnt have to worry about extinction.
At the end of the day this means that it *is* genetic that one becomes lupine or kinfolk.
Between kinfolk and ghouls, I prefer kinfolk. You don't have to go into the drug addiction metaphor if someone doesn't work to, especially new players.
Can a Kinfolk become a Mage?
That question will be answered in this video :D
pretty sure baba yaga that is a nosferatu the put the iron curtain up in Russia was a former shaman kinfolk :3
Yes. It's still random chance. The newly awakened mage might be distrusted by the Garou, depending on tradition or craft.
And before I forget. Kin can be enchanted by changelings, become a wraith if the kin's connection is strong enough, mummified (yes, but more often fails), but not imbued by the messangers.
@@Demolitiondude It's not always just random chance, they can learn sorcery,, such as learning to become a Lesser Shaman, and attempt to earn the perk "struggling awake" which in the case of a Lesser Shaman, would Awaken the kinfolk into a full-blown Dreamspeaker. Dreamspeakers, especially those that started out as sept Shamans, can be on very good terms with the Garou (depending on the tribe and camp, of course).
Could a dog be kinfolk ???
Yes!
I’ve been wanting this. 🐺
Can’t wait for it to start