Great essay. Part 2 perfectly backs this up with the "I would do it all over again" line. As long as his family is safe, Joel doesn't care about the consequences of his actions
I was about 14 when this game came out. 10 years later the themes and amazing characters still stick with me. The emotional impact of it has only grown more profound as I’ve aged.
Having Nolan North portray David was such a good choice, and weirdly ironic considering he portrayed Nathan Drake as well, the luckiest character in fiction.
This theme is extremely similar with that of Robert Sapolsky's "Biology of Human Behavior" which basically says that we as humans don't have free will, we are sum of our hormonal, physiological, sociological factors. This particular video shined a new light to the theme to me, thx again, Brett, always a pleasure to listen to your essays!
This intrigues me. I would argue that perhaps our free will is the sum of our hormonal, physiological and sociological factors? Not necessarily because I believe it or because I don’t but rather to spurn on thought to come to a conclusion that fits each individual
I used to think sometimes when I was a teenager, that to some extent nobody is really at fault for their actions, and now in my 20s I just think about it even more. Because at the end of the day we cannot choose our genetics, our personalities, our parents, where we are born, etc. And _all_ of those things influence who we are, what we do and say to other people, and how we view the world. Glad it wasn't just some weird unrealistic viewpoint I conjured up. It really is just a luck of the draw what kind of person you turn out to be. We think we have free will, but we are more like computer programs. Running code that is written by these factors and how they affect us, and our experiences as we live our lives. Every word someone chooses to say is indirectly linked to things as seemingly mundane as what town they grew up in.
Oh, I absolutely second this. I've never been the hugest fan of Rockstar; like, their games are fun, but their stories are hilariously straightforward and predictable. Despite that, Arthur Morgan is somehow one of the best written characters in all of video gaming, I absolutely adore him. Red Dead 2 in general is just such a fantastic game.
@@BlazingGlaceonthat game is bloated, unfocused, poorly designed from a mechanics standpoint, the story is terribly paced, there characters are dumb, and the best aspects of Arthur’s character happens off screen and is only talked about. He’s a pretty dumb character given the background of what we’re told about the gang and the past. But yeah throw in a lot of loosely proper periodic grammar and people automatically think the writing is profound. Elden Ring is written in a more Shakespearean style, but no one sucks that game off for its writing. That’s partly because story in Elden Ring isn’t too important to enjoy it, but people also don’t because the fanbase isn’t as toxic and widespread. Cockstar can slap their logo onto the shittiest product and there will still be defendants so long as they threw enough money into it for features that existed 15 years ago but hey look they got a new coat of paint, and that coat of paint means it’s good. Graphics = good, that’s the retarded reasoning and double standard in their favour. If GTA Trilogy The Definitive Edition had good enough graphics, like say they ported over content but using the GTA 5 engine, but it was just as buggy and lazy in terms of actual polish and refinement, then people would defend it way more and give them a pass.
At first, when I first saw the story of last of us, I was like "She should have the right to choose, and try" ... But honestly? I think even if the fireflies win, they lose. The game never shows us anything about what kind theory they have. If they can actually discover a vaccine let alone manufacture it. I honestly think once other factions hear of the most important knowledge ever; they would immediately try to take control of it. Either to safeguard it, or to capitalize off it. I think the fireflies would be fighting wars on every front, and, struggling with resources and manpower to actually make the vaccine in any appreciably amount, all at once. She'd basically still die for nothing. -- This was a great video, I really liked it.
Exactly a thing people can forget At that point, that was bassically the last base they had In the 2nd game the Fireflies are gone. because Joel wiped them out If that one location was all they had. No way were they getting that cure out to everyone. Joel. In 1 night. completely wiped them out. Which is why Abbey and the like hate him so much. To their eyes, he killed the glorious rebel cause, and killed the only scientist who could have fixed it. But in reality. If one dude could take them All out in like, an hour. They weren't going to last long anyways. So even IF they could get the cure, which is a Big IF from their resources. Their ability to spread it out to the world.... Not happening. They wouldn't even be able to mass produce it. At BEST It would ended up a recruiting thing. They're able to produce some amount of vaccine, and basically put it as 'join us and get the vaccine'. Even if they WANT to spread it. They don't have the resources to do it
Whenever I see someone bring up the tired argument about how the fireflies were doomed to fail and would not be able to make a vaccine for contrived reasons even though the story's themes pretty explicitly depend upon the duality of Joel's decision and the implication of its outcomes (and it was stated by the writers that the Fireflies absolutely could have at the very least made a viable vaccine), I usually roll my eyes before moving on because 99% of the time it immediately devolves into hateposting about part II but this is probably one of very few instances where I've seen someone make interesting points about the potential struggle behind **using** the vaccine and not just handwaving it as impossible to produce in the first place, because honestly the conversation behind getting the vaccine distribution off the ground and the effect it would have on post apocalypse power dynamics between the few substantial groups of humanity left alive have pretty interesting story implications and is something I hope will be explored in future entries at least in some capacity. One caveat, though, is I still take issue with the "Ellie would still die for nothing" statement. Think about it. If that's really the conclusion you need to resolve the moral dilemma of Joel's decision then in my opinion you are severely depriving yourself the chance to critically engage with the story and its conclusion in a holistic way. The entire crux of that final decision rests on there being real consequences behind either outcome. It's meant to embody the themes of hope and hopelessness. In the case of Joel choosing to save Ellie there is the hope that her life and what its preservation represents--a humanity first approach to the rebuilding of society and the world, one that uses the intimate and meaningful interpersonal struggles of those who care for and about each other to embody the themes of burgeoning hope and placing our faith in our will to survive and live in ourselves and each other--will go on to be a small yet meaningful piece in the overall tapestry of renewal and rebirth for the human race and society at large, such that her immunity itself will not even have to be a necessary step in the process. At the same time there is a dark and melancholy hollowness that undercuts this choice. How many people did Joel's decision potentially touch or even inadvertently cut short the lives of? What if Ellie were to randomly die on the way back to Jackson? (something we know all too well had a very high chance of happening in a world like this). What if Ellie didn't believe Joel's lie and ditched him at the first opportunity to go look for the remaining fireflies herself, making his decision pointless? What if the ending had played out slightly differently and Ellie woke up before Joel escaped-during the confrontation with Marlene, perhaps? We probably would have seen a deeply betrayed and anguished Ellie telling Joel to leave her with Marlene and never come back. People are very quick to pile on the hypotheticals when it comes to justifying the morality of Joel's decision but rarely consider the many hypotheticals of the inverse. Which brings us to the themes of the other choice (one which we, unfortunately, can only speculate on, but I digress): Joel leaving Ellie with the Fireflies. In contrast to the very human, interpersonal, and emotional hope yet solemn grimness that the canon ending carries, this outcome's brand of hope, while more detached and esoteric, I think would feel much further reaching and have stronger implications for the immediate future than the canon ending. As opposed to the more granular renewal of society that Joel's decision (and by extension, Ellie's life in Jackson) to take a chance on people's love for each other and desire to live for that love rather than prioritizing more utilitarian goals as symbolized through his sacrifice of a vaccine in exchange for Ellie's life, this ending would be more of a "shock to the system", so to speak. While less grounded in emotional and interpersonal meaning, the overall transformation of society would get a jumpstart with the distribution of immunity to the infection. The hope this would bring is more existential than interpersonal and its effects would be substantially farther reaching in a much shorter time period. Humanity would begin to stir again after decades of increasingly deepening silence across the globe. Of course, this side of the coin is not all sunshine and rainbows either. Far from it, in fact. There is a substantial risk/reward gamble at play here, and many ways this could go wrong or create bad situations. What if a malicious faction seized control of the vaccine, for instance? Offering it to select groups perhaps, maybe gatekeeping it behind slavery or indentured servitude, maybe even keeping some people unvaccinated and then intentionally infecting them before releasing them into a rival population as a form of biological warfare that would pose no risk to them because they're immune? I think there truly is a wealth of discussion and speculation to be had about this games' ending when you realize that both the themes of hopefulness and hopelessness can exist in both outcomes and there are valid arguments for both of them. It's understandable and expected for people to be biased towards what they're familiar with and attached to, but it's also necessary to do our best to sometimes step outside of our biases and view things from different angles. It's easy to say Joel was justified and the fireflies were doomed to fail anyway because we have only seen the story play out one way and only through Joel and Ellie's eyes. It's easy to claim the fireflies had "unrealistic" chances of success but if you're going to apply the realism argument, you shouldn't stop at what it implies for the fireflies. If we're being honest, realism would've ensured Joel and Tess never even made it to Robert (they were heavily outnumbered and outgunned), let alone crossed paths with Marlene and subsequently Ellie. Anyway, I'll end this super long comment here. Hopefully I managed to get someone to think a bit more critically about this.
If you wanna be technical, no the fireflies could not make a vaccine But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have done something so similar that it doesn’t matter. The best thing to do would be to make a powerful antifungal medication made using a strain of cordyscepts. In fact a similar medication already exists. In the end that’s irrelevant. What is relevant is could the fireflies have made a cure or vaccine? No. Because Joel killed them.
@@ultimaweapon991 The only thing we see the Fireflies do is fail. They lose every fight, they lose every outpost, and their whole operation was wiped out by one middle aged man. The Fireflies are objectively incompetent according to all in game evidence.
You really are cranking out the last of us videos. Great Job! Joel does what his heart desires and not what the world wants him to do. we do not know if Ellie dying in that hospital would actually give us a cure or even if it will get the world back to once it was, but too joel, he saw his goal and he got what he knew was right.
I agree save ellie let ellie find other way make cure for everyone without her giving up her life to do so .what joel wanted do for ellie .but took ellie while to finally understand joel did right thing and give other shot to fulfill her dream save people but in duffent way .
If the cure wasn’t guaranteed to work, it eliminates the depth of Joel’s decision, his characterization of being selfish and uncaring to others, outside of those he trusts.
When you talking about Ellie using the word luck, I think she was getting that from Joel. Joel at several times has mentioned how lucky they have been. At the end of the section with Tommy Joel mentions how many close calls they have had and Ellie menitons that they have been doing alright so far. After that Ellie emulates Joel to David saying that they got lucky. When David disagreed he was disagreeing with Joel through Ellie, that there is no such thing as luck.
I also think that Ellie starting to refer to destiny after her encounter with David shows how much of an impact he had on her. She incorporate the possibility of a 'fate' just because he MENTIONS it in one conversation. It must have scarred her deeply and it may have worsen after Joel's death because what are the odds of Abby's group running so perfectly into Joel and Tommy? I love your videos so so so much. You make great analysis and I'm learning su much about character development and depth. Keep up the amazing work! I'll be waiting for your next video!
I also believe David's belief in destiny is supposed to be an exact opposite of joel, who David is supposed to be a dark reversal of Ellie says they got lucky because way earlier in the game its one of the things Joel says to her for how they survived through the subway and FEDRA, Joel says "Its called luck. And it will run out." Followed by Tess before dying is "Our luck had to run out sometime " Joel and Ellie believe in luck, Joel didnt get killed when sarah did, he kept surviving situations he probably believes he shouldn't. But david believes he survived everything alongside Ellie is because of destiny. He thinks they were never going to die because destiny needed him to kill joel and take ellie
I adore David's performance in the game and show. Listening to him talk, you can hear the subtext to what he's saying: "everything happens for a reason, and God brought you to me, so obviously God is rewarding me because I really wanted to kill you and Joel, and now I get to." People like him think they're entitled to whatever they want because they're a devout follower of God and that therefore means they're owed the rewards that good followers are due. It's a perversion of the idea of karma, I believe, and is unsettlingly common in the modern day. I think that's what drives the audience's interest in David, he's real and we can't look away.
I felt this video. Currently on a journey. I'm always a brooding stoic type. Usually very pessimistic about things. But I'm trying to be a better person. To be more happy. But i always see myself reverting back to the same old me. Will i ever get to a new better me? Maybe not, but i do have HOPE. Great video.
@MrMaurice1124 I wish you good fortune in your journey to come. And, if I may, a small piece of advice/a small observation - to find yourself slipping back into old ways when trying to change them is proof of how you’re aware of your old ways, which is a crucial step in changing them. We all on this planet strive for change, but without recognising our lapses will never push ourselves forwards towards this change.
Could we have a Doom video someday? I think that the Doomguy is interesting. Or maybe one about the villains, I think Doom has so much and deserves a great video of yours someday.
If I had a nickel for every game franchise involving a gruff fatherly figure and his child breaking fate, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice!
At 6:54 you can see Ellie’s subtle expression change when David reveals that he knows that Joel and Ellie was in the Colorado college… a chilling detail that the animators perfectly captured
Just finished part 2 again last night. The themes of this game have genuinely changed my life. I would love to see a deconstruction of villainy on Isaac, and maybe some videos on the WLF and Abby as a character. You’ve quickly become one of my favorite channels. Keep it up!!
If you want his content early, go to the Last of Us subreddit. Oh, he doesn't post there early. He just steals posts and tries to pass it off as his own stuff. That's how these videos get made.
I actually hated it when I first beat it because I was going through a lot mentally at the time. Now I would probably say that it changed my perspective on humanity, made me a more empathetic person, and sparked my interest in psychology. It’s also probably my favorite game of all time.
If you think about it, GOW fate looks massive and looming but it’s really a stand alone complex of everyone doing what is in their nature to do. It just looks like someone is pulling the strings. Mind blown?
To Marlene and Joel "maybe it was meant to be" has a completely different meaning. Marlene thinks Ellie's arrival was fate because she is destined to restore humanity, but to Joel it feels like fate because of how Ellie appeared out of nowhere and changed his life.
Very well done, thank you. It seems implied in the concept of fate that we are who we are (like train tracks) and it is immutable, but I don't think that's entirely fair. As noted to Kratos, we are who we are because of our CONSISTENT CHOICES to that end, but SOME OF US can consciously change and make different choices -- breaking the cycle, following a different "program", as it were. Joel didn't like Ellie from the start, but the 2 grew together, and while Joel had descended to the level of survival, to the level of animal (as many of us do) he had become that nihilistic fate machine that is critiqued here BUT Joel learned, and grew, and made different choices. Ellie is Joel's redemption arc, from the "Hero's Journey". Sarah's death had shattered him, and his wound scarred over as a survivor, to the level of animal, or machine. But it was caring for Ellie that renewed Joel's soul. And while he did murder his way through that hospital, that was because they were about to murder Ellie, whom he had grown to love and had given him a reason for living again, given him his soul back -- in effect, murdering him as well. To wit, the Fireflies drugged Ellie AGAINST HER WILL and would have KNOWINGLY MURDERED HER, even knowing the unbelievably low chances of success of a vaccine (even with OUR CURRECT TECH it takes 10-15years to create a vaccine AND at that, 90-95% fail... this was a LONG SHOT OF LONG SHOTS, desperation, really, and Abby's Father knew this AND WAS COMPLICIT). I'd also like to add that in the zoo, Joel was ready to cash out and go back to Tommy's. He said as much to Ellie, BUT IT WAS ELLIE'S SEARCH FOR MEANING that had them press on, and ultimately lead to Joel's death, Tommy's disabling, and Ellie's "revenge". Hindsight being what it is, but what was clearly Joel's instinct at the time was the smart play: count yourselves lucky you survived, enjoy the OASIS that Tommy and Maria built, live out your days in relative peace there, and maybe find love and build a family -- heck that's biologically probably the solution to the fungus problem in this universe, as likely Ellie's kids would be immune, and go on to spread THEIR immunity further!
TLoU2 was a painful and ugly experience. When there's a 3, they should find the cure through Ellie, in a way that doesn't kill her. And a way that proves killing her would have destroyed any curr. That would vindicate Joel, make her life matter, and everyone else's that got her to that place.
This is one of your best video essays and now one of my favorites. The comparison of fate and destiny between GoW and TLOU was great. Also, the use of the Norns to compare Joel’s ‘destiny’ to GoW’s prophecies really cemented the whole essay as a banger.
Man this guy is him, because of all of his analysis videos I have learned so much on writing techniques and depth in detail about the last of us, learning and listening to what you have to say has been so helpful for me to learn so thanks so much man, you have no idea how much I'm enjoying these videos.
Hey Brett, fantastic essay as always! I do have one thing I want to point out: your conclusion is that Joel is ultimately a slave to fate. I mostly agree with this conclusion: as you said: Joel ultimately makes the same decision at the end of the game as he did in the beginning of the game. If we take out the fact that this is a fictional, written story, we could conclude that Joel's decisions were always going to lead to the Fireflies at the end of the game, were always going to lead to him being spared from the Fireflies, and then go on a rampage as he learns about Ellie's fate, her being operated on and dying for the sake of the vaccine. I would make the argument though that Joel's decision may not have been breaking HIS fate, it might not have even broken humanity's fate, but I would argue that it changes Ellie's fate. Remember at the very end when Marlene told Joel he was free to go? To me that's saying that he was always walking out of there alive, since we know he also ended up walking away after his final confrontation with the Fireflies. I believe that Joel's fate in the story was always going to be surviving. Not so for Ellie. Throughout the game, Ellie's fate is to die. If Joel had done nothing, Ellie would never have survived. Ellie's fate was certain at the beginning of the game, whether or not we realized it. I have little doubt the Fireflies always knew that Ellie would never survive the procedure, and if it wasn't for everybody's involvement Ellie would have never survived period. She would have either died in Boston, in the mall (both times) or outside with Joel, Ellie only survived so long because of other's decisions, until Winter when she was the one making the decisions, and then Spring where the decisions were taken away from her again. If Ellie's fate was always to die, then Joel's fate broke that fate because it was every decision, and the sum of those decisions, that ended up keeping Ellie alive. Wouldn't it then be plausible to say that in a way, Joel's and Ellie's fates are diametrically opposed? Ellie will always be, or put herself into, mortal danger which she cannot escape from alone. On the other side, Joel will always survive, and he will always protect his daughter. These two being together is why Ellie survives, it's the only reason why Ellie can survive. Therefore: Ellie's fate to die is ultimately broken because of Joel's, because it's Joel's fate to never let his family die, whatever fate that family might have.
Bit on the David fate speech. Call me Captain obvious here but was David’s speech meant to be ironic? As in fate led David to the “victim” that would be his final undoing? Edit Ellie says exactly this when she breaks his finger.
When you finish talking about the Last of Us: Part 1, I almost figured you'd talk about the sequel in some manner. When talking about Abby, are you solely gonna make it character analysis-based and discuss how she's a slave to "destiny" in the same manner as Joel, or are you also gonna break down how Neal "Fuck Your Expectations" Druckman fails at making Abby a sympathetic character?
He has a plethora of other videos where it's clear he didn't play the first game before making them. Spoilers: He tries to make it out like TLOU2 is profound and smartly written.
This makes me think about part 2. A lot of people I talk to, including myself, say and wish that Abby paid for her actions. Ellie should have killed Abby. And if she did, Lev would’ve killed Ellie. The cycle would’ve continued. But it didn’t. There was always a choice to end the cycle. Ellie could have killed Abby *and* Lev, and that would’ve ended the cycle. That choice would’ve been in Ellie’s nature. One could argue that perhaps that should’ve been her destiny. Ellie did not make that choice, however. Ellie chose to spare Abby and Lev. The cycle still ended. This thought process can still be discussed, many could argue which choice was truly fate, but I think Ellie stopped being a slave to fate when she stopped being a slave to her choices.
I think the “if the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again” was Joel’s way of saying he did freely choose to fulfil his destiny, though his destiny was not what everyone and everything in the Last of Us game was designed to point to. His destiny was not to cure mankind, but to protect the innocent girl he grew to see as his daughter.
The norns knew what they were doing. By telling Kratos that Atreus would be killed, they knew the God killer would take decisive action, and “do what he does best”.
Your video was awesome as always but since you brought up the Norns, maybe for another God of War video you could talk about their manipulation of destiny. They talk about how Freya's choices lead to Buldur's death but she made those choices because of them. Also, they straight up lied to Kratos when they said he would die, or giants can prophesy better than the damn Norns but I'm inclined to believe the former. This must mean that Odin's and Asgard's downfall is what the Norns wanted to happen.
i would like to point out that joel mentions luck in the very beginning almost planting a seed, but very subtle and he says "its gonna run out". Ellie in turn mentions luck in that scene just as joel did
I personally believe that Kratos didn't break his fate because he's a god and changed, I believe his true fate wasn't necessarily a god killer like the norns preached, but just an extremely passionate family man and a father. All of Kratos' actions throughout the entire series has always been driven by family in one way or another, it just so happened that violence, the action he was taught and brought up around since birth, happened to be the best solution to protecting or avenging his family, or so he thought. I think Kratos surviving and changing wasn't necessarily breaking his violent fate and nature, but more so proving that his true nature had always been family related, and that he would do anything, even change his usual way of solving problems violently, to retain his family. The nature of being a god killer was solely the outside that everyone saw, an unfortunate end result of how Kratos decided to protect or avenge his family. Love this video so much, have always thought about how both Kratos and Joel approach fate/destiny so seeing an indepth video like this really helped put my thoughts in order and showed me a different perspective
People latch onto concepts like destiny and fate in an attempt to bring some kind of order, even if it's not fully understood, to the chaos that is life. God's Plan is just another form of this within religion. I think this is for three reasons. The existential crisis that comes with the thought that there is no true sense of order among the chaos, or that the chaos is order on a scale we can't possibly hope to comprehend. That we fear the unknown, and will often fight tooth and nail to avoid engaging with it. Especially if the first engagement has caused significant pain. And finally that pain without cause needs to serve a purpose, why else would we feel it, and why else would we be made to suffer by things we had no control over, no contribution to the cause of the effect. Surely it has to all mean *something,* right? Or as Ellie says, "It can't be for nothing."
These video essays are incredibly well done, and your arguments are well thought out and persuasive. Started with the FEDRA video, and I’ve enjoyed the rest of TLOU essays - looking forward to more, both on TLOU and other games :)
Dont believe in fate as a "all things happen cuz their supposed to" but I do believe in a greater purpose and a greater design. But people have free will and are allowed to do aweful and horrible things. When people die and someone says it was their time. That's one of the most stupid things evee. Most people do not live their whole lives intended. Due to the actions of themselves, others, or nature
I said it before and i will say it again. I do not like the remake's graphics. The character changes are often very jarring because they didn't want to remaster the characters they wanted to make them look more like the TV show. It's literally marketing and i hate it.
I enjoy your videos, but I feel like you're reaching a bit here. GoW is literally about fate, but I dont feel the writers really had fate in their mind, just purpose and human nature.
"part 2" is a pile of garbage by incompetent writers. Constant contrivances to force the plot forward at any cost. You fix any of them, the whole thing crashes to the ground.
I love your essays on TLOU and GoW. I haven't played either game, but I've watched multiple people on YT play both TLOU games and I've watched the show. I love the depth that you bring to the story. I'm looking forward to your future essays. I know almost nothing about FF, but I'll probably watch those videos too. I've been lurking on your channel for quite a while but this essay made me comment. Keep up the great work!
I share my View on Fate 100% with the Nourns. There is no Design or Reason. The Nourns are magicaly capable of knowing every tiny Variable in Reality and thus arn't making real "Prophecys" but mearly engage in highly advanced Math. Even with Magic we are still all the Result of Physical Reactions that the Nourns know everything about. And they have obviously fun simbly riding down the River of unchangeble Reality even they can not change as they are part of that Reality too.
pleaseeee more last of us videos and maybe some red dead 2? i love the way you construct your videos, theyre my favorite type of content on youtube. i enjoy your in depth views on things ive never even noticed in games i play several times
Hey Brett, if you're going to cover FFVII, could you compare the game with Cyberpunk 2077? I've a feeling there's plenty of material to cover about FFVII's own cyberpunk themes and how it differs from 2077's nihilism and optimism
Again another great video. (Had to skip the sections on God of War though for now, since I'm currently playing it.) Personally, I don't believe in fate (even though on the other hand, the laws of nature don't seem to allow for free will). And while not everybody has the ability to contribute profoundly to the human endeavour (like, for instance, by sacrificing oneself for a vaccine), our life can still be meaningful through our interactions with others. Ellie could still find new meaning even if it's not on the largest scale, but maybe by "just" being a member of the Jackson society, by providing for "a nice little creature", by sharing her love with another person.
Just watched this again at realized something: The norns play people like they are puppets. There was no proof that Heimdall intended to kill atreus. As a matter of fact, I would argue the opposite. Heimdall is a grade A Odin bootlicker. Odin is the only person we see heimdall show any respect to. The fact that he did not drop atreus from the wall is because he knows that Atreus was telling the truth about being invited by Odin. I really dont think Heimdall would defy Odin in such a way. The norns told them this because they knew how Kratos, or any parent would respond. The only counter argument I can think of is that they did not specify when heimdall would attempt to unalive atreus. Perhaps Odin could have given Heimdall the order to eliminate atreus, after atreus succeeded in aiding with the mask and rift. Its hard to say.
If some day you plan to do any essay about ou around Abby's psychological journey, I heavily recommand this great analysis of the "boat scene", the context surrounding it, and what it tells about Abby, by Brittany Hottmann: ruclips.net/video/TTgD-q3trpM/видео.html She covers many aspects of the character and her relations to others, espacially Owens, and she does this with great detail and nuance, especially compared to the deluge of irrational reactionnary hates Abby gets from many people on the internet. Also, many thanks for your work, I love your essays so much
It's confirm, we must find a way to mods Joes and Marline into God of War, Ragnarök, So the old women can roast them both, it's will be epic, much more than Lamar complain about haircut.
In part 2, Ellie's journal entries about faith and her last conversation with Joel build on this theme. And this is one of the most central themes of the whole story, I am excited to see how part 3 will explore it
This one Thing i disagree is that Tess wanted to die purposfully, but she just dosen't wanted turn into one of those Things, which is pretty relateble ! Joel even said :"oh, i can fight"! Meaning that those two ore however much Fedra Comrades Tess shot didn't change much of the Situation ! But i get what you mean.
Amazing, the part regarding fate and destiny reminded me of Eren Jaeger in Attack on Titan. "He is a slave to fate because he is a slave to himself" Eren is a slave to freedom thats why he still did what he needed to do, fulfilling his memories of the future
WAIT! FFVII has notoriously bad translation so when you mean "how the characters were written" do you mean the Japanese? Because kanji take up less space than roman letters (physical as well as data space) there was no other option than cut a ton of text and oversimplify the rest. Plus there were bad mistranslations and misunderstandings as well. So analysing the english FFVII analysing failure
I feel like the entirety of my thoughts can be boiled down to It was fate That was destiny Those sentences speak truth, but in contrast… It is fate This is destiny These sentences speak falsehood. Fate and destiny are bestowed upon chains of coincidences that end in something meaningful. Destiny and fate are both past-tense. Which means they are fundamentally different from what we say they are and what we believe they are.
Brett, i look forward to anything you do. Its not so much the games your examining that I'm watching your content for, as much as i just like to hear YOUR OPINIONS, YOUR BREAKDOWNS, by nature of it being YOU, I basically want to watch it. I can't really even explain why or when that happened, but its frankly how I feel about your content.
If you're looking for a game that goes over the positives and negatives of religious faith, look no further than Horizon Zero Dawn. Almost every tribe has some form of spiritual belief in that world. I really like your villany deconstruction videos and I would love to hear you breakdown the motivations of Helis and some of the other characters from the Horizon series.
ACTUALLY the first on screen charcter death is jimmy?? how could you forget the best character in the game? he is the one who starts joel on his war path or survival, he is the window of darkness that consumes joel in to the killing machine we know today. if it wasnt for jimmy he probably would have died alot sooner, most people work ther way up from a zombie stranger to a zombie friend then a zombie family or loved one. but joel had to off his zombie jimmy who he prolly knew for a very long time judging by decoration and how joel jokes about the morgate joel probaly made alot of jokes with jimmy in back yard cook outs like you can see how he runs up to the door and how there isnt really a fence or even a hedge. many neighbors become friends only because the share a connected lawn, there is something about hoe there is no divider, even if there is a line in the lawn, the no physical barrier is what says "hey man we are in this together you and me making the grass short and nice for our other neighbors and children to look, play, or enjoy ther time while we have events like birthdays, cook outs, or even just setting up a slp and slide for the kids" the idea about forgetting jimmy is so outlandish i couldnt believe you discredit him by not even a slight mention of him in this instence (not counting the tv news lady because she is a on screen on screen death but also not really shown but i agree)
I love this concept. But I don't think that Ellie believes in destiny or fate. It sounds a lot like she is desperately searching for a meaning. She wants to make the deaths matter, that they should have a positive effect so she can help to alleviate her guilt and sorrow. Fate and Meaning are not the same thing.
I would say that God of war regnarok with the norms It's a bit lame because in that scene they make the norm sound more like conArtist Or swindlers. Because in the previous game balder's death was not needless while at the same time it was and yes all Freya Had to do was let her son go However, all the norms had to do was tell her to let her son go and he will live. Joel is a role model for the ideal father. Where if you put anyone in his shoes in that will do everything he did down to the letter. The world is not worth the sacrifice of a child And no father would sacrifice their child For a broken society of Entitled. sinful people
Great essay. Part 2 perfectly backs this up with the "I would do it all over again" line. As long as his family is safe, Joel doesn't care about the consequences of his actions
youtube videos and presentations arent essays
@@nomercyinc6783I mean, this type of video is basically just an essay that is read aloud if you think about it
@@nomercyinc6783 whatever 🙄
Video essay such as a video log, but we're not about to call it a Vlessay are we?
Which is why Joel is a dirt bag.
It's all Joel-ver
No
No
No
Yes
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! .... *Y E S!*
I was about 14 when this game came out. 10 years later the themes and amazing characters still stick with me. The emotional impact of it has only grown more profound as I’ve aged.
Having Nolan North portray David was such a good choice, and weirdly ironic considering he portrayed Nathan Drake as well, the luckiest character in fiction.
literally just finished the video on FEDRA and immediately clicked this vid. Love your commentary, it’s always so well written
Agreed, if you like his videos, I'm sure you would love "Mauler"
Babe wake up. New last of us video essay
This theme is extremely similar with that of Robert Sapolsky's "Biology of Human Behavior" which basically says that we as humans don't have free will, we are sum of our hormonal, physiological, sociological factors. This particular video shined a new light to the theme to me, thx again, Brett, always a pleasure to listen to your essays!
This intrigues me.
I would argue that perhaps our free will is the sum of our hormonal, physiological and sociological factors?
Not necessarily because I believe it or because I don’t but rather to spurn on thought to come to a conclusion that fits each individual
I used to think sometimes when I was a teenager, that to some extent nobody is really at fault for their actions, and now in my 20s I just think about it even more. Because at the end of the day we cannot choose our genetics, our personalities, our parents, where we are born, etc. And _all_ of those things influence who we are, what we do and say to other people, and how we view the world. Glad it wasn't just some weird unrealistic viewpoint I conjured up.
It really is just a luck of the draw what kind of person you turn out to be. We think we have free will, but we are more like computer programs. Running code that is written by these factors and how they affect us, and our experiences as we live our lives. Every word someone chooses to say is indirectly linked to things as seemingly mundane as what town they grew up in.
One day I would like to see you cover Arthur Morgan, Dutch van der linde, and other red dead characters. It's a really good set of games.
Oh, I absolutely second this. I've never been the hugest fan of Rockstar; like, their games are fun, but their stories are hilariously straightforward and predictable. Despite that, Arthur Morgan is somehow one of the best written characters in all of video gaming, I absolutely adore him. Red Dead 2 in general is just such a fantastic game.
Yea I'm currently playing through rdr2 atm and I was thinking the same thing
@@BlazingGlaceonthat game is bloated, unfocused, poorly designed from a mechanics standpoint, the story is terribly paced, there characters are dumb, and the best aspects of Arthur’s character happens off screen and is only talked about. He’s a pretty dumb character given the background of what we’re told about the gang and the past.
But yeah throw in a lot of loosely proper periodic grammar and people automatically think the writing is profound. Elden Ring is written in a more Shakespearean style, but no one sucks that game off for its writing. That’s partly because story in Elden Ring isn’t too important to enjoy it, but people also don’t because the fanbase isn’t as toxic and widespread.
Cockstar can slap their logo onto the shittiest product and there will still be defendants so long as they threw enough money into it for features that existed 15 years ago but hey look they got a new coat of paint, and that coat of paint means it’s good. Graphics = good, that’s the retarded reasoning and double standard in their favour.
If GTA Trilogy The Definitive Edition had good enough graphics, like say they ported over content but using the GTA 5 engine, but it was just as buggy and lazy in terms of actual polish and refinement, then people would defend it way more and give them a pass.
@russian_knight don't listen to this dull minded child, I am sorry that his mind is to inexperienced and weak to fathom red dead redemption 2
@@DroolingDrillinghe wanna be different so bad
At first, when I first saw the story of last of us, I was like "She should have the right to choose, and try" ... But honestly? I think even if the fireflies win, they lose. The game never shows us anything about what kind theory they have. If they can actually discover a vaccine let alone manufacture it. I honestly think once other factions hear of the most important knowledge ever; they would immediately try to take control of it. Either to safeguard it, or to capitalize off it. I think the fireflies would be fighting wars on every front, and, struggling with resources and manpower to actually make the vaccine in any appreciably amount, all at once. She'd basically still die for nothing. -- This was a great video, I really liked it.
Exactly a thing people can forget
At that point, that was bassically the last base they had
In the 2nd game the Fireflies are gone. because Joel wiped them out
If that one location was all they had. No way were they getting that cure out to everyone.
Joel. In 1 night. completely wiped them out. Which is why Abbey and the like hate him so much. To their eyes, he killed the glorious rebel cause, and killed the only scientist who could have fixed it.
But in reality. If one dude could take them All out in like, an hour. They weren't going to last long anyways.
So even IF they could get the cure, which is a Big IF from their resources.
Their ability to spread it out to the world.... Not happening. They wouldn't even be able to mass produce it.
At BEST
It would ended up a recruiting thing. They're able to produce some amount of vaccine, and basically put it as 'join us and get the vaccine'.
Even if they WANT to spread it. They don't have the resources to do it
Personally I think that such a world, while brutal, would still be way better than the universe of The Last of Us
Whenever I see someone bring up the tired argument about how the fireflies were doomed to fail and would not be able to make a vaccine for contrived reasons even though the story's themes pretty explicitly depend upon the duality of Joel's decision and the implication of its outcomes (and it was stated by the writers that the Fireflies absolutely could have at the very least made a viable vaccine), I usually roll my eyes before moving on because 99% of the time it immediately devolves into hateposting about part II but this is probably one of very few instances where I've seen someone make interesting points about the potential struggle behind **using** the vaccine and not just handwaving it as impossible to produce in the first place, because honestly the conversation behind getting the vaccine distribution off the ground and the effect it would have on post apocalypse power dynamics between the few substantial groups of humanity left alive have pretty interesting story implications and is something I hope will be explored in future entries at least in some capacity.
One caveat, though, is I still take issue with the "Ellie would still die for nothing" statement. Think about it. If that's really the conclusion you need to resolve the moral dilemma of Joel's decision then in my opinion you are severely depriving yourself the chance to critically engage with the story and its conclusion in a holistic way. The entire crux of that final decision rests on there being real consequences behind either outcome. It's meant to embody the themes of hope and hopelessness. In the case of Joel choosing to save Ellie there is the hope that her life and what its preservation represents--a humanity first approach to the rebuilding of society and the world, one that uses the intimate and meaningful interpersonal struggles of those who care for and about each other to embody the themes of burgeoning hope and placing our faith in our will to survive and live in ourselves and each other--will go on to be a small yet meaningful piece in the overall tapestry of renewal and rebirth for the human race and society at large, such that her immunity itself will not even have to be a necessary step in the process. At the same time there is a dark and melancholy hollowness that undercuts this choice. How many people did Joel's decision potentially touch or even inadvertently cut short the lives of? What if Ellie were to randomly die on the way back to Jackson? (something we know all too well had a very high chance of happening in a world like this). What if Ellie didn't believe Joel's lie and ditched him at the first opportunity to go look for the remaining fireflies herself, making his decision pointless? What if the ending had played out slightly differently and Ellie woke up before Joel escaped-during the confrontation with Marlene, perhaps? We probably would have seen a deeply betrayed and anguished Ellie telling Joel to leave her with Marlene and never come back.
People are very quick to pile on the hypotheticals when it comes to justifying the morality of Joel's decision but rarely consider the many hypotheticals of the inverse. Which brings us to the themes of the other choice (one which we, unfortunately, can only speculate on, but I digress): Joel leaving Ellie with the Fireflies. In contrast to the very human, interpersonal, and emotional hope yet solemn grimness that the canon ending carries, this outcome's brand of hope, while more detached and esoteric, I think would feel much further reaching and have stronger implications for the immediate future than the canon ending. As opposed to the more granular renewal of society that Joel's decision (and by extension, Ellie's life in Jackson) to take a chance on people's love for each other and desire to live for that love rather than prioritizing more utilitarian goals as symbolized through his sacrifice of a vaccine in exchange for Ellie's life, this ending would be more of a "shock to the system", so to speak. While less grounded in emotional and interpersonal meaning, the overall transformation of society would get a jumpstart with the distribution of immunity to the infection. The hope this would bring is more existential than interpersonal and its effects would be substantially farther reaching in a much shorter time period. Humanity would begin to stir again after decades of increasingly deepening silence across the globe. Of course, this side of the coin is not all sunshine and rainbows either. Far from it, in fact. There is a substantial risk/reward gamble at play here, and many ways this could go wrong or create bad situations. What if a malicious faction seized control of the vaccine, for instance? Offering it to select groups perhaps, maybe gatekeeping it behind slavery or indentured servitude, maybe even keeping some people unvaccinated and then intentionally infecting them before releasing them into a rival population as a form of biological warfare that would pose no risk to them because they're immune?
I think there truly is a wealth of discussion and speculation to be had about this games' ending when you realize that both the themes of hopefulness and hopelessness can exist in both outcomes and there are valid arguments for both of them. It's understandable and expected for people to be biased towards what they're familiar with and attached to, but it's also necessary to do our best to sometimes step outside of our biases and view things from different angles. It's easy to say Joel was justified and the fireflies were doomed to fail anyway because we have only seen the story play out one way and only through Joel and Ellie's eyes. It's easy to claim the fireflies had "unrealistic" chances of success but if you're going to apply the realism argument, you shouldn't stop at what it implies for the fireflies. If we're being honest, realism would've ensured Joel and Tess never even made it to Robert (they were heavily outnumbered and outgunned), let alone crossed paths with Marlene and subsequently Ellie.
Anyway, I'll end this super long comment here. Hopefully I managed to get someone to think a bit more critically about this.
If you wanna be technical, no the fireflies could not make a vaccine
But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have done something so similar that it doesn’t matter.
The best thing to do would be to make a powerful antifungal medication made using a strain of cordyscepts.
In fact a similar medication already exists.
In the end that’s irrelevant.
What is relevant is could the fireflies have made a cure or vaccine?
No. Because Joel killed them.
@@ultimaweapon991 The only thing we see the Fireflies do is fail. They lose every fight, they lose every outpost, and their whole operation was wiped out by one middle aged man. The Fireflies are objectively incompetent according to all in game evidence.
You really are cranking out the last of us videos. Great Job!
Joel does what his heart desires and not what the world wants him to do.
we do not know if Ellie dying in that hospital would actually give us a cure or even if it will get the world back to once it was, but too joel, he saw his goal and he got what he knew was right.
I agree save ellie let ellie find other way make cure for everyone without her giving up her life to do so .what joel wanted do for ellie .but took ellie while to finally understand joel did right thing and give other shot to fulfill her dream save people but in duffent way .
If the cure wasn’t guaranteed to work, it eliminates the depth of Joel’s decision, his characterization of being selfish and uncaring to others, outside of those he trusts.
Joel saved his world, Ellie was his entire world
I dunno…. The reaction of Abby’s dad when Owen told him about Ellie says other wise
@@shekkie owen say what to jerry about ellie I have replay part 1 again .may have missed it .
When you talking about Ellie using the word luck, I think she was getting that from Joel. Joel at several times has mentioned how lucky they have been. At the end of the section with Tommy Joel mentions how many close calls they have had and Ellie menitons that they have been doing alright so far. After that Ellie emulates Joel to David saying that they got lucky. When David disagreed he was disagreeing with Joel through Ellie, that there is no such thing as luck.
Sarah Conner has entered the chat: "No fate but what we make."
Nice
I also think that Ellie starting to refer to destiny after her encounter with David shows how much of an impact he had on her. She incorporate the possibility of a 'fate' just because he MENTIONS it in one conversation. It must have scarred her deeply and it may have worsen after Joel's death because what are the odds of Abby's group running so perfectly into Joel and Tommy?
I love your videos so so so much. You make great analysis and I'm learning su much about character development and depth. Keep up the amazing work! I'll be waiting for your next video!
Let me say this since I'm early, please keep making these videos they give me something to listen to in the background while I work
I also believe David's belief in destiny is supposed to be an exact opposite of joel, who David is supposed to be a dark reversal of
Ellie says they got lucky because way earlier in the game its one of the things Joel says to her for how they survived through the subway and FEDRA, Joel says "Its called luck. And it will run out." Followed by Tess before dying is "Our luck had to run out sometime "
Joel and Ellie believe in luck, Joel didnt get killed when sarah did, he kept surviving situations he probably believes he shouldn't.
But david believes he survived everything alongside Ellie is because of destiny. He thinks they were never going to die because destiny needed him to kill joel and take ellie
I adore David's performance in the game and show. Listening to him talk, you can hear the subtext to what he's saying: "everything happens for a reason, and God brought you to me, so obviously God is rewarding me because I really wanted to kill you and Joel, and now I get to."
People like him think they're entitled to whatever they want because they're a devout follower of God and that therefore means they're owed the rewards that good followers are due. It's a perversion of the idea of karma, I believe, and is unsettlingly common in the modern day.
I think that's what drives the audience's interest in David, he's real and we can't look away.
I felt this video. Currently on a journey. I'm always a brooding stoic type. Usually very pessimistic about things. But I'm trying to be a better person. To be more happy. But i always see myself reverting back to the same old me. Will i ever get to a new better me? Maybe not, but i do have HOPE.
Great video.
@MrMaurice1124 I wish you good fortune in your journey to come.
And, if I may, a small piece of advice/a small observation - to find yourself slipping back into old ways when trying to change them is proof of how you’re aware of your old ways, which is a crucial step in changing them. We all on this planet strive for change, but without recognising our lapses will never push ourselves forwards towards this change.
Could we have a Doom video someday? I think that the Doomguy is interesting. Or maybe one about the villains, I think Doom has so much and deserves a great video of yours someday.
If I had a nickel for every game franchise involving a gruff fatherly figure and his child breaking fate, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice!
The way people drag PlayStation for those 2 franchises are crazy
At 6:54 you can see Ellie’s subtle expression change when David reveals that he knows that Joel and Ellie was in the Colorado college… a chilling detail that the animators perfectly captured
Just finished part 2 again last night. The themes of this game have genuinely changed my life. I would love to see a deconstruction of villainy on Isaac, and maybe some videos on the WLF and Abby as a character. You’ve quickly become one of my favorite channels. Keep it up!!
If you want his content early, go to the Last of Us subreddit.
Oh, he doesn't post there early. He just steals posts and tries to pass it off as his own stuff. That's how these videos get made.
I actually hated it when I first beat it because I was going through a lot mentally at the time. Now I would probably say that it changed my perspective on humanity, made me a more empathetic person, and sparked my interest in psychology. It’s also probably my favorite game of all time.
@@crazyinsane500 ok redditard
If you think about it, GOW fate looks massive and looming but it’s really a stand alone complex of everyone doing what is in their nature to do. It just looks like someone is pulling the strings. Mind blown?
To Marlene and Joel "maybe it was meant to be" has a completely different meaning. Marlene thinks Ellie's arrival was fate because she is destined to restore humanity, but to Joel it feels like fate because of how Ellie appeared out of nowhere and changed his life.
Very well done, thank you.
It seems implied in the concept of fate that we are who we are (like train tracks) and it is immutable, but I don't think that's entirely fair.
As noted to Kratos, we are who we are because of our CONSISTENT CHOICES to that end, but SOME OF US can consciously change and make different choices -- breaking the cycle, following a different "program", as it were.
Joel didn't like Ellie from the start, but the 2 grew together, and while Joel had descended to the level of survival, to the level of animal (as many of us do) he had become that nihilistic fate machine that is critiqued here BUT Joel learned, and grew, and made different choices.
Ellie is Joel's redemption arc, from the "Hero's Journey".
Sarah's death had shattered him, and his wound scarred over as a survivor, to the level of animal, or machine.
But it was caring for Ellie that renewed Joel's soul.
And while he did murder his way through that hospital, that was because they were about to murder Ellie, whom he had grown to love and had given him a reason for living again, given him his soul back -- in effect, murdering him as well.
To wit, the Fireflies drugged Ellie AGAINST HER WILL and would have KNOWINGLY MURDERED HER, even knowing the unbelievably low chances of success of a vaccine (even with OUR CURRECT TECH it takes 10-15years to create a vaccine AND at that, 90-95% fail... this was a LONG SHOT OF LONG SHOTS, desperation, really, and Abby's Father knew this AND WAS COMPLICIT).
I'd also like to add that in the zoo, Joel was ready to cash out and go back to Tommy's. He said as much to Ellie, BUT IT WAS ELLIE'S SEARCH FOR MEANING that had them press on, and ultimately lead to Joel's death, Tommy's disabling, and Ellie's "revenge".
Hindsight being what it is, but what was clearly Joel's instinct at the time was the smart play: count yourselves lucky you survived, enjoy the OASIS that Tommy and Maria built, live out your days in relative peace there, and maybe find love and build a family -- heck that's biologically probably the solution to the fungus problem in this universe, as likely Ellie's kids would be immune, and go on to spread THEIR immunity further!
Brett video? Instant click
TLoU2 was a painful and ugly experience. When there's a 3, they should find the cure through Ellie, in a way that doesn't kill her. And a way that proves killing her would have destroyed any curr. That would vindicate Joel, make her life matter, and everyone else's that got her to that place.
This is one of your best video essays and now one of my favorites. The comparison of fate and destiny between GoW and TLOU was great. Also, the use of the Norns to compare Joel’s ‘destiny’ to GoW’s prophecies really cemented the whole essay as a banger.
Man this guy is him, because of all of his analysis videos I have learned so much on writing techniques and depth in detail about the last of us, learning and listening to what you have to say has been so helpful for me to learn so thanks so much man, you have no idea how much I'm enjoying these videos.
Or maybe Joel was fated to slaughter the fireflies
Hey Brett, fantastic essay as always! I do have one thing I want to point out: your conclusion is that Joel is ultimately a slave to fate. I mostly agree with this conclusion: as you said: Joel ultimately makes the same decision at the end of the game as he did in the beginning of the game. If we take out the fact that this is a fictional, written story, we could conclude that Joel's decisions were always going to lead to the Fireflies at the end of the game, were always going to lead to him being spared from the Fireflies, and then go on a rampage as he learns about Ellie's fate, her being operated on and dying for the sake of the vaccine. I would make the argument though that Joel's decision may not have been breaking HIS fate, it might not have even broken humanity's fate, but I would argue that it changes Ellie's fate.
Remember at the very end when Marlene told Joel he was free to go? To me that's saying that he was always walking out of there alive, since we know he also ended up walking away after his final confrontation with the Fireflies. I believe that Joel's fate in the story was always going to be surviving. Not so for Ellie. Throughout the game, Ellie's fate is to die. If Joel had done nothing, Ellie would never have survived. Ellie's fate was certain at the beginning of the game, whether or not we realized it. I have little doubt the Fireflies always knew that Ellie would never survive the procedure, and if it wasn't for everybody's involvement Ellie would have never survived period. She would have either died in Boston, in the mall (both times) or outside with Joel, Ellie only survived so long because of other's decisions, until Winter when she was the one making the decisions, and then Spring where the decisions were taken away from her again. If Ellie's fate was always to die, then Joel's fate broke that fate because it was every decision, and the sum of those decisions, that ended up keeping Ellie alive. Wouldn't it then be plausible to say that in a way, Joel's and Ellie's fates are diametrically opposed? Ellie will always be, or put herself into, mortal danger which she cannot escape from alone. On the other side, Joel will always survive, and he will always protect his daughter. These two being together is why Ellie survives, it's the only reason why Ellie can survive. Therefore: Ellie's fate to die is ultimately broken because of Joel's, because it's Joel's fate to never let his family die, whatever fate that family might have.
Bit on the David fate speech. Call me Captain obvious here but was David’s speech meant to be ironic?
As in fate led David to the “victim” that would be his final undoing?
Edit
Ellie says exactly this when she breaks his finger.
"Final Fantasy 7 introduced us to some of the most famous characters in video game history"
*cough cough* italian senate *cough cough*
When you finish talking about the Last of Us: Part 1, I almost figured you'd talk about the sequel in some manner. When talking about Abby, are you solely gonna make it character analysis-based and discuss how she's a slave to "destiny" in the same manner as Joel, or are you also gonna break down how Neal "Fuck Your Expectations" Druckman fails at making Abby a sympathetic character?
He has a plethora of other videos where it's clear he didn't play the first game before making them.
Spoilers: He tries to make it out like TLOU2 is profound and smartly written.
These banger FatBrett last of us video essays keep me functioning throughout the day Fr.
Its sad that all of these development was done for Joel, just for him to be thrown aside.
It’s storytelling 101. When a character’s arc is over, you either kill them, take them out of the story, or end the story. Joel’s arc was over.
How was it thrown aside just because he died? Joel's story was done. Even then his choices in Part 1 cause the majority of Part 2
@@AesirUnlimitedlol he got what he deserved
@@Arctis326 Very true.
@@seankelly8432 What else do you call it? They did the same to Luke Skywalker. And for what? Just to add SJW crap and unlikable characters.
This makes me think about part 2.
A lot of people I talk to, including myself, say and wish that Abby paid for her actions. Ellie should have killed Abby. And if she did, Lev would’ve killed Ellie. The cycle would’ve continued.
But it didn’t. There was always a choice to end the cycle. Ellie could have killed Abby *and* Lev, and that would’ve ended the cycle. That choice would’ve been in Ellie’s nature. One could argue that perhaps that should’ve been her destiny.
Ellie did not make that choice, however. Ellie chose to spare Abby and Lev. The cycle still ended.
This thought process can still be discussed, many could argue which choice was truly fate, but I think Ellie stopped being a slave to fate when she stopped being a slave to her choices.
She realizes Joel got what he deserved for his action thats it
I think the “if the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again” was Joel’s way of saying he did freely choose to fulfil his destiny, though his destiny was not what everyone and everything in the Last of Us game was designed to point to. His destiny was not to cure mankind, but to protect the innocent girl he grew to see as his daughter.
The norns knew what they were doing. By telling Kratos that Atreus would be killed, they knew the God killer would take decisive action, and “do what he does best”.
Your video was awesome as always but since you brought up the Norns, maybe for another God of War video you could talk about their manipulation of destiny. They talk about how Freya's choices lead to Buldur's death but she made those choices because of them. Also, they straight up lied to Kratos when they said he would die, or giants can prophesy better than the damn Norns but I'm inclined to believe the former. This must mean that Odin's and Asgard's downfall is what the Norns wanted to happen.
Great video! Is there a possibility for literary analysis videos on red dead redemption 2?
My favorite part is when Joel yelled "there is a tempest in me!" Before he shot Marlene
He was so real for this
My favorite part of the game is when joel says "ITS JOEL TIME" and he joels fucking everywhere
I think i signed up in writing class by mistake
11:00 sunk cost fallacy
*Hank Hill voice*
Can’t you that you’re not making TLoU better, you’re just making TLoU 2 worse?!
Not really his brother basically heavily lampshaded his fate in the first game.
Guess you could say he called a "Joel in One"
i would like to point out that joel mentions luck in the very beginning almost planting a seed, but very subtle and he says "its gonna run out". Ellie in turn mentions luck in that scene just as joel did
I'm a simple man. I see this guy's videos on my timeline, I click it immediately.
This made me think of undertale and flowey's fate and the reason he's so messed up is cuz he's been able to break fate so many times
This channel has got me really interested in playing god of war
Its never Joel-ver.
I personally believe that Kratos didn't break his fate because he's a god and changed, I believe his true fate wasn't necessarily a god killer like the norns preached, but just an extremely passionate family man and a father. All of Kratos' actions throughout the entire series has always been driven by family in one way or another, it just so happened that violence, the action he was taught and brought up around since birth, happened to be the best solution to protecting or avenging his family, or so he thought.
I think Kratos surviving and changing wasn't necessarily breaking his violent fate and nature, but more so proving that his true nature had always been family related, and that he would do anything, even change his usual way of solving problems violently, to retain his family. The nature of being a god killer was solely the outside that everyone saw, an unfortunate end result of how Kratos decided to protect or avenge his family.
Love this video so much, have always thought about how both Kratos and Joel approach fate/destiny so seeing an indepth video like this really helped put my thoughts in order and showed me a different perspective
People latch onto concepts like destiny and fate in an attempt to bring some kind of order, even if it's not fully understood, to the chaos that is life. God's Plan is just another form of this within religion.
I think this is for three reasons. The existential crisis that comes with the thought that there is no true sense of order among the chaos, or that the chaos is order on a scale we can't possibly hope to comprehend. That we fear the unknown, and will often fight tooth and nail to avoid engaging with it. Especially if the first engagement has caused significant pain. And finally that pain without cause needs to serve a purpose, why else would we feel it, and why else would we be made to suffer by things we had no control over, no contribution to the cause of the effect. Surely it has to all mean *something,* right?
Or as Ellie says, "It can't be for nothing."
These video essays are incredibly well done, and your arguments are well thought out and persuasive.
Started with the FEDRA video, and I’ve enjoyed the rest of TLOU essays - looking forward to more, both on TLOU and other games :)
Dont believe in fate as a "all things happen cuz their supposed to" but I do believe in a greater purpose and a greater design. But people have free will and are allowed to do aweful and horrible things.
When people die and someone says it was their time.
That's one of the most stupid things evee. Most people do not live their whole lives intended. Due to the actions of themselves, others, or nature
I can't get over the new models for Marlene. The PS4 pro version is just plain better imo.
Call it a cliché but He „doomed” the human race by a profoundly human act
Destiny = self nature. When you understand some ones nature, you could predict their future.
"I also want to bring another game, God Of War: Ragnarok" never gets old.
Joel was never wrong
"We can't fight change.
We can't fight nature.
We can't fight gravity.
We can't fight nothing."
Please make some red dead redemption videos. There’s content in there for days.
23:35
notice, how he sais "daughter" instead of "ellie"? this is probably a mistake but its really accurate to how joel starts to see ellie over time
I’m stoked to hear your thoughts on FFVII, thanks Brett!
This guy need more subscribers
I said it before and i will say it again. I do not like the remake's graphics. The character changes are often very jarring because they didn't want to remaster the characters they wanted to make them look more like the TV show. It's literally marketing and i hate it.
I enjoy your videos, but I feel like you're reaching a bit here. GoW is literally about fate, but I dont feel the writers really had fate in their mind, just purpose and human nature.
You enjoy his videos?
You did pick up on him being a plagiarist who just rips stuff off from subreddits, right?
Looking forward to the Cait Sith character analysis
Loving all the TLOU videos lately!
I would love it if you also analyze part 2 because it also challenges the meaning of fate, grief, perspective, and humanity
"part 2" is a pile of garbage by incompetent writers. Constant contrivances to force the plot forward at any cost. You fix any of them, the whole thing crashes to the ground.
I love your essays on TLOU and GoW. I haven't played either game, but I've watched multiple people on YT play both TLOU games and I've watched the show. I love the depth that you bring to the story. I'm looking forward to your future essays. I know almost nothing about FF, but I'll probably watch those videos too. I've been lurking on your channel for quite a while but this essay made me comment. Keep up the great work!
Couldn't beat Metroid dread huh?
The 😴 of us.
Is it me or are all the TLOU essays starting to sound the same?
Well that's probably because the channel owner may get a lot of heavy lifting done courtesy of ChatGPT.
You should really do a series like this for TLOU 2.
I was thinking that as well.
I share my View on Fate 100% with the Nourns. There is no Design or Reason. The Nourns are magicaly capable of knowing every tiny Variable in Reality and thus arn't making real "Prophecys" but mearly engage in highly advanced Math. Even with Magic we are still all the Result of Physical Reactions that the Nourns know everything about.
And they have obviously fun simbly riding down the River of unchangeble Reality even they can not change as they are part of that Reality too.
pleaseeee more last of us videos and maybe some red dead 2? i love the way you construct your videos, theyre my favorite type of content on youtube. i enjoy your in depth views on things ive never even noticed in games i play several times
I am interested in viewing your perspective on Joshua Graham. Your thorough studies will suit the complex character very well, I think.
Hey Brett, if you're going to cover FFVII, could you compare the game with Cyberpunk 2077? I've a feeling there's plenty of material to cover about FFVII's own cyberpunk themes and how it differs from 2077's nihilism and optimism
"Fate" is usually used as an excuse by people who don't want to take responsibility for their own mistakes...
Again another great video. (Had to skip the sections on God of War though for now, since I'm currently playing it.)
Personally, I don't believe in fate (even though on the other hand, the laws of nature don't seem to allow for free will). And while not everybody has the ability to contribute profoundly to the human endeavour (like, for instance, by sacrificing oneself for a vaccine), our life can still be meaningful through our interactions with others. Ellie could still find new meaning even if it's not on the largest scale, but maybe by "just" being a member of the Jackson society, by providing for "a nice little creature", by sharing her love with another person.
Just watched this again at realized something: The norns play people like they are puppets. There was no proof that Heimdall intended to kill atreus. As a matter of fact, I would argue the opposite. Heimdall is a grade A Odin bootlicker. Odin is the only person we see heimdall show any respect to. The fact that he did not drop atreus from the wall is because he knows that Atreus was telling the truth about being invited by Odin. I really dont think Heimdall would defy Odin in such a way. The norns told them this because they knew how Kratos, or any parent would respond.
The only counter argument I can think of is that they did not specify when heimdall would attempt to unalive atreus. Perhaps Odin could have given Heimdall the order to eliminate atreus, after atreus succeeded in aiding with the mask and rift. Its hard to say.
Commenting that the past-participle and past tense word is "bitten", not "bit" until everyone stops getting it wrong.
If some day you plan to do any essay about ou around Abby's psychological journey, I heavily recommand this great analysis of the "boat scene", the context surrounding it, and what it tells about Abby, by Brittany Hottmann: ruclips.net/video/TTgD-q3trpM/видео.html
She covers many aspects of the character and her relations to others, espacially Owens, and she does this with great detail and nuance, especially compared to the deluge of irrational reactionnary hates Abby gets from many people on the internet.
Also, many thanks for your work, I love your essays so much
It's confirm, we must find a way to mods Joes and Marline into God of War, Ragnarök, So the old women can roast them both, it's will be epic, much more than Lamar complain about haircut.
In part 2, Ellie's journal entries about faith and her last conversation with Joel build on this theme. And this is one of the most central themes of the whole story, I am excited to see how part 3 will explore it
This one Thing i disagree is that Tess wanted to die purposfully, but she just dosen't wanted turn into one of those Things, which is pretty relateble ! Joel even said :"oh, i can fight"! Meaning that those two ore however much Fedra Comrades Tess shot didn't change much of the Situation ! But i get what you mean.
Amazing, the part regarding fate and destiny reminded me of Eren Jaeger in Attack on Titan. "He is a slave to fate because he is a slave to himself"
Eren is a slave to freedom thats why he still did what he needed to do, fulfilling his memories of the future
WAIT! FFVII has notoriously bad translation so when you mean "how the characters were written" do you mean the Japanese? Because kanji take up less space than roman letters (physical as well as data space) there was no other option than cut a ton of text and oversimplify the rest. Plus there were bad mistranslations and misunderstandings as well. So analysing the english FFVII analysing failure
This is still my favourite Horses video.
Keep up the good work, man. 🤘
I feel like the entirety of my thoughts can be boiled down to
It was fate
That was destiny
Those sentences speak truth, but in contrast…
It is fate
This is destiny
These sentences speak falsehood.
Fate and destiny are bestowed upon chains of coincidences that end in something meaningful.
Destiny and fate are both past-tense. Which means they are fundamentally different from what we say they are and what we believe they are.
you know, after watching some of these videos I have a strong feeling that FatBrett doesn't like David....
Brett, i look forward to anything you do. Its not so much the games your examining that I'm watching your content for, as much as i just like to hear YOUR OPINIONS, YOUR BREAKDOWNS, by nature of it being YOU, I basically want to watch it. I can't really even explain why or when that happened, but its frankly how I feel about your content.
If you're looking for a game that goes over the positives and negatives of religious faith, look no further than Horizon Zero Dawn. Almost every tribe has some form of spiritual belief in that world. I really like your villany deconstruction videos and I would love to hear you breakdown the motivations of Helis and some of the other characters from the Horizon series.
ACTUALLY the first on screen charcter death is jimmy?? how could you forget the best character in the game? he is the one who starts joel on his war path or survival, he is the window of darkness that consumes joel in to the killing machine we know today. if it wasnt for jimmy he probably would have died alot sooner, most people work ther way up from a zombie stranger to a zombie friend then a zombie family or loved one. but joel had to off his zombie jimmy who he prolly knew for a very long time judging by decoration and how joel jokes about the morgate joel probaly made alot of jokes with jimmy in back yard cook outs like you can see how he runs up to the door and how there isnt really a fence or even a hedge. many neighbors become friends only because the share a connected lawn, there is something about hoe there is no divider, even if there is a line in the lawn, the no physical barrier is what says "hey man we are in this together you and me making the grass short and nice for our other neighbors and children to look, play, or enjoy ther time while we have events like birthdays, cook outs, or even just setting up a slp and slide for the kids" the idea about forgetting jimmy is so outlandish i couldnt believe you discredit him by not even a slight mention of him in this instence
(not counting the tv news lady because she is a on screen on screen death but also not really shown but i agree)
I love this concept. But I don't think that Ellie believes in destiny or fate. It sounds a lot like she is desperately searching for a meaning. She wants to make the deaths matter, that they should have a positive effect so she can help to alleviate her guilt and sorrow. Fate and Meaning are not the same thing.
I would say that God of war regnarok with the norms It's a bit lame because in that scene they make the norm sound more like conArtist
Or swindlers. Because in the previous game balder's death was not needless while at the same time it was and yes all Freya Had to do was let her son go However, all the norms had to do was tell her to let her son go and he will live. Joel is a role model for the ideal father. Where if you put anyone in his shoes in that will do everything he did down to the letter. The world is not worth the sacrifice of a child
And no father would sacrifice their child For a broken society of Entitled. sinful people
When you realize that Ellie not killing Abby is her essentially breaking fate, her own cycle of revenge.
Original final fantasy 7 is my favorite game, can't wait to see your take on it 😃
Ellie is going to die in TLOU3. Her death will have a profound impact on the games universe.
Fate only exists as a quantim wave-function of superposition.
You have to simultaneously believe and not believe in its existence for it to exist.