I'm from Argentina, and board games are very high price imported products here. I made many games pnp at 25% of the cost of the original game (settlers of catan, secret Hitler, pandemic, and more). Is cheaper printing 3D pieces and buy custom wood pieces for the board than buying the game. I print in a store using "sticker paper" (i don't know how i say that type of paper in English, it's like a white background sticker) and paste in wood. Very cheap and acceptable quality
I know that a lot of places have that issue, particularly in South America and Eastern Europe. Between shipping, taxes, import costs, etc., it becomes essentially impossible to have or get reasonably priced games.
PnP is sometimes the only option because each official print costs 60% of a basic income salary. Shipping costs are really high to some countries. The game costs 50 dollars, shipping 100 dollars sometimes. I printed Root from the official files and I am ok with it to be honest. I made the meeples with a CNC cutter. The whole thing costed me like 40 dollars. So, yeah "why didn't you buy the original game then?", well, it is out of stock in the whole country, and it has been for at least 6 months maybe more, so yeah.
Totally understand where you're coming from. Game distribution in a lot of places around the world is, at best, insanely expensive. Root really is a great example of the company doing right by community in offering the actual full game to anyone with the means to get it printed. Obviously the CNC or 3D printing type level is needed, but certainly makes for a more "real" feel.
top 5 print and play games video summarized "why the heck would you print this game when you can just buy it?!". maybe should have picked different games.
To an extent, I agree with you, but this is more about the fact that some big publishers are (thankfully) leaning into the idea of enabling people to play their games at the cost of cardstock and ink. That said, there are PNP-exclusive publishers and games, as well as reskins, but from the ones I've played it hasn't been worthwhile. I'd never say I'm a particular authority on the topic, though.
I had the French Edition of Dune. Over the years I replaced every part of the original game with nicer fan made materials. Cards that had their uses on them, plastic troops, metal coins, finally a roll out mat. When I made my own leaders, the only question was if I wanted to use art from fans, the Lynch movie, the Miniseries, or the Video Games. Some of the fan art on BGG ended up being used as the art in the new edition, so that's how good it was.
Very cool! If nothing else, you probably have one of the most custom/unique copies of the game out there. That in and of itself is something to be proud of as well, IMO.
The Duke works well as amprint and play though ive never been spoiled with the real wood pieces. I drew up the pieces in inkscape and printed them quarter size and laminated them. Publisher has larger ones available on BGG.. I was afraid it would be awkward with the tiny flat pieces but didnt have a problem. Printing on the cheaper paper worked better actually because I could cut the laminate a lot closer to the card
Thanks for the insight and sharing your thoughts! Being able to make your own P&P "kit" is very impressive, to be sure, and it's nice to hear that at least at some point the cheaper paper is better. So many of them always say to need some reasonably heavy cardstock, it's ridiculous.
I just discovered yesterday that ROOT has a pnp version and couldn't believe it.. I found your video while searching is it a legit version :) And i agree with you and the other commenters, I have to be 100% sure that the publisher endorses the pnp before using it. As to why would I go to the pnp rout instead of buying the real commercial product? It is simply because where I live it is very hard to find board games, and shipping them from abroad would be very expensive . Citadels is actually a game that I printed and i Love it. Thankfully the pnp has the new artwork which i prefferre to the old one. So that is a bonus ;)
Right?? I was seriously taken aback when I found out there was an endorsed, usable, high quality Root PnP. For something so popular I was amazed that the publisher was willing to give it away. That said, you probably have the best reasoning of anyone around - when pnp becomes the only real viable way that you can play a game, it makes them invaluable to gamers around the world. I hope that more publishers do this.
@@amananand2029 sorry for the late reply . I really don't remeber the exact link. It was on Board Game Geek . In one of the threads of best print n play games. Sorry agin
@@NahlaSid please don't apologise.....I also come from a part of the planet where Shipping cost + Import Duty(Customs Duty) make the game crazily expensive (Settlers of Catan would be 1/4 of my monthly salary)....still thanks for replying.....and sorry from my side to .....I also replied late😅
@@NahlaSid But once in a while if any one of friends or relatives are coming back to my country from the United States....I ask them to bring one or two game .....that would cost me 1/7 on my monthly salary.....but it alright.....I love playing these added bonus.....they don't hurt our eyes like PC or Mobile games😄
For print and play I am ok with it under 2 instances. #1 Publisher endorsed: this one is cut and dry, in most cases this is a cheaper version for both you and the Developer and since it is legit go to town with it. In general I prefer to just get the professionally produced stuff as it is more often of higher quality. The second instance I am ok with it is when there is no way to buy the game (or components) directly from the manufacturer. If a thing is out of print and has ballooned to insane costs on the secondary market then you are not taking money away from the people making the game just scalpers. In both instances I would prefer to get the actual game (or components) but needs must.
I'm essentially in the same boat as you on this. Root is a good example of instance number 1 - they released everything needed as a PnP for the first couple scenarios, but that still left the lion's share of the game in the box. The Dune issue, prior to the recent reprint, fits well with the second, since ANY OOP game, unless you mange to get a leftover copy or the like from a retailer, would never be attainable through proper distribution. That said, I would also make the argument that some games just aren't built well for PnP in general. Whether it's too many components, a complex mechanism, or requiring some large physical piece to make function properly (things like TI4, Tzolk'In, and Dimension come to mind), it eventually becomes too much of a hassle to try and print everything.
That's and interesting point; there's not generally a lot to "build", but it can certainly be fun doing some card assembling and the like. I can see it.
Chronicle of crime is a great game and I can believe that it works fine as a pnp. You should absolutely try it. I don’t have any problems with pnp but if I like a game I will buy it after I have try it. The pnp can never give the same feeling as a “real” game. One problems with pnp game from America is that you insist to use letter format on paper and that makes it impossible to print dubbel sided since the pictures don’t match and letter format doesent sells outside of America.
I think the one thing I really like about Chronicles of Crime is that the PnP version is officially endorsed by the company - especially with a game like that where it's still in print and relatively easy to buy, going the PnP route can feel like cheating/stealing. You're right, though, that even with excellent materials (good cardstock, a quality printer, etc.), a PnP will never completely match the actual game. When it gets to the point of a PnP being nearly like the actual game, you've probably spent more than what the game costs.
BoardGameGeek has a whole section on print and play - boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-play . That'd be a great place to start. Other than that you can look at individual companies/game sites to see if they have previews/etc. similar to the D&D essentials box.
Sorry man but I think it's really lazy to review print and play games for games that you haven't printed and played. The Hassel or ease of setup is part of the process and should be part of the review.
I totally get where you're coming from on this. In retrospect it would probably have been better to skip the topic, but I know an awful lot of people don't have much of a choice when it comes to how they can play/get games. Just the fact that some bigger companies have official/"sanctioned" PnP versions is wonderful for the community, regardless of how long it may take to prep and use. Additionally, there seems to be an approximately linear relationship between a game's complexity and how much time and resources the PnP takes. Doesn't really correspond well to the "enjoyment time" though. Just my thoughts obviously, though.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience Yeah you're right. I get how it's useful to some people. I don't think skipping the topic would be called for. I think I came into the video with the wrong expectations. This isn't titled as a "review", it's a spotlight video and works well as one. I guess the issue is in the RUclips algorithm. I typed into YT search "print and play REVIEWS" so I was looking for a "is it worth my time?" review video. Meanwhile this is most useful as a "Fantastic games you can get for free" spotlight video. Which is exactly what it's titles and presented as. I was more critical because I came into it with a certain expectation and didn't realize it wasn't called a 'review' until literally just right now.
@@dutyfreeadventures5924 No worries at all! The algorithm does sometimes act up; I don't have 'review' as a keyword on this one, so no idea how it would've come up. Unfortunate that it didn't give the info you were looking for. I'd imagine there's a number of solid, more "proper" PnP dedicated videos and even channels out there, though. Hope that you got what you were looking for!
Agree 100%. It's a great way to have a "try before you buy" mechanism. So few games have that ability, short of P&P or playing during a game night or the like. Easier access is a huge aspect as well, to be sure.
Print and play games shine best for distributing playtest copies of a work in progress game (or a self published game) to more people. On the rare occasion I've played them, I find quality components in the actual game more desirable. Somewhat related topic: I wonder what your thoughts are on app versions of games?
You're 100% correct to be sure. Smaller publishers and/or self-published games can get grassroots type things going a lot more easily with a PnP style release. Obviously there's a lot less, if any, money to be made initially, but you do see things like the My Little Pony mod for Scythe becoming My Little Scythe. Can't argue with some results like that. App versions I'm generally split on. I've done a couple videos on them - ruclips.net/video/sIG1YXDcGno/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/MtImUqvH7D8/видео.html. In generally, especially in our current climate, I think they're a great way to keep playing games, and I even participated in an online Cosmic Encounter tournament held in Tabletop Simulator. Kind of a way to go beyond the PnP, in that sense. That said, I do generally prefer being able to sit at a table and play.
Roll n write boardgames work best as print and plays no point paying that much for sheets of paper, pencils and some dice when you might not even like the game
Very true to be sure. That said, you can generally find roll n' write games that use dry or wet erase markers so you can continuously reuse things. Or potentially laminating cards/papers used for scoring to make them re-usable.
I did a ton of print and play. They are indestructible (you can always reprint as long as you document), and they’re unsellable (nobody trusts your skill). If the retail is cheap why bother.
And the biggest hurdle is the box. You need to design the box. PnP sounds cheap, but really isn't. Consider the glue alone. And the tools. I usually don't pnp games that are out there as retail/ks. Some exceptions are The Phantom The Card game (I co-edited), and Diceborn Heroes (which I made in 2018 and the game came out in 2020).
You raise good points - the actual cost of printing (decent stock, ink/toner, not to mention time) can all end up being more than retail, though some people would likely argue that the experience is cathartic and worth it. Not to mention they don't NEED to have a box, though it certainly does help.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience Time is a factor indeed. For having pdfs to have them printed, you need to sort them by type then join them together to simplify the job for the printer guys. Since it's only cost effective in the hundreds of prints, I usually send out a job twice a year. With some bad luck I stumble upon a nice thing after I sent out a job. There are games out there that are totally worth it. - T7C the demo. Try before you spend a fortune. - Agent Decker: cheap pnp but so good, unavailable commercially. - tons of fan scenarios on Arkham Central, just check for typos or be very tolerant of them (I am not). - Warhammer quest ACG: tons of fan stuff. - fan based AI for various games, usually with a deck of fan based ai cards.
The fan-based ones are certainly a good method to go for. Some of them are really cool, whether they're new mechanics (like the AI you mentioned) or just a re-skinning to a new them could be very cool, as well.
I mean... I don't know how epic the image is, but I make all my images myself. Just finding various images that fit the theme(s) and make my little pics from a separate camera grab.
I found this video pretty disappointing to be honest. It's far from the top 5 pnp games, only 5 pnp games of titles you can buy in physical format. The pnp world is VAST indeed with some amazingly talented designers and artists out there but I feel this video gives a negative perception of pnp games. It feels a bit like having A List of the Top 3 Ice Creams but then only referencing the 3 in neapolitan ice cream.
Thanks for the feedback! It is true that my personal experiences in PnP is limited to those that are meant to be a "tester" or the like for a full version, and I know that doesn't nearly represent the breadth of true PnP, where many are dedicated solely thereto. It's kind of similar to discussing solo play games - most often people see and talk about bigger games that CAN be played solo, but there's a lot of them out there which are built to be solitaire-exclusive.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience would you like some suggestions for simple games you could print and try? Some could be solo while others for between 1 to more players. Sheet count of between 1 to 5 say.
I'm from Argentina, and board games are very high price imported products here. I made many games pnp at 25% of the cost of the original game (settlers of catan, secret Hitler, pandemic, and more). Is cheaper printing 3D pieces and buy custom wood pieces for the board than buying the game. I print in a store using "sticker paper" (i don't know how i say that type of paper in English, it's like a white background sticker) and paste in wood. Very cheap and acceptable quality
I know that a lot of places have that issue, particularly in South America and Eastern Europe. Between shipping, taxes, import costs, etc., it becomes essentially impossible to have or get reasonably priced games.
Any helpful videos for making these games?
I would love to make new games
PnP is sometimes the only option because each official print costs 60% of a basic income salary. Shipping costs are really high to some countries. The game costs 50 dollars, shipping 100 dollars sometimes. I printed Root from the official files and I am ok with it to be honest. I made the meeples with a CNC cutter. The whole thing costed me like 40 dollars. So, yeah "why didn't you buy the original game then?", well, it is out of stock in the whole country, and it has been for at least 6 months maybe more, so yeah.
Totally understand where you're coming from. Game distribution in a lot of places around the world is, at best, insanely expensive. Root really is a great example of the company doing right by community in offering the actual full game to anyone with the means to get it printed. Obviously the CNC or 3D printing type level is needed, but certainly makes for a more "real" feel.
top 5 print and play games video summarized "why the heck would you print this game when you can just buy it?!". maybe should have picked different games.
To an extent, I agree with you, but this is more about the fact that some big publishers are (thankfully) leaning into the idea of enabling people to play their games at the cost of cardstock and ink. That said, there are PNP-exclusive publishers and games, as well as reskins, but from the ones I've played it hasn't been worthwhile. I'd never say I'm a particular authority on the topic, though.
I had the French Edition of Dune. Over the years I replaced every part of the original game with nicer fan made materials. Cards that had their uses on them, plastic troops, metal coins, finally a roll out mat. When I made my own leaders, the only question was if I wanted to use art from fans, the Lynch movie, the Miniseries, or the Video Games. Some of the fan art on BGG ended up being used as the art in the new edition, so that's how good it was.
Very cool! If nothing else, you probably have one of the most custom/unique copies of the game out there. That in and of itself is something to be proud of as well, IMO.
The Duke works well as amprint and play though ive never been spoiled with the real wood pieces.
I drew up the pieces in inkscape and printed them quarter size and laminated them.
Publisher has larger ones available on BGG..
I was afraid it would be awkward with the tiny flat pieces but didnt have a problem. Printing on the cheaper paper worked better actually because I could cut the laminate a lot closer to the card
Thanks for the insight and sharing your thoughts! Being able to make your own P&P "kit" is very impressive, to be sure, and it's nice to hear that at least at some point the cheaper paper is better. So many of them always say to need some reasonably heavy cardstock, it's ridiculous.
I just discovered yesterday that ROOT has a pnp version and couldn't believe it.. I found your video while searching is it a legit version :)
And i agree with you and the other commenters, I have to be 100% sure that the publisher endorses the pnp before using it. As to why would I go to the pnp rout instead of buying the real commercial product? It is simply because where I live it is very hard to find board games, and shipping them from abroad would be very expensive .
Citadels is actually a game that I printed and i Love it. Thankfully the pnp has the new artwork which i prefferre to the old one. So that is a bonus ;)
Right?? I was seriously taken aback when I found out there was an endorsed, usable, high quality Root PnP. For something so popular I was amazed that the publisher was willing to give it away.
That said, you probably have the best reasoning of anyone around - when pnp becomes the only real viable way that you can play a game, it makes them invaluable to gamers around the world. I hope that more publishers do this.
Can you share the link of "root".... "PNP"
@@amananand2029 sorry for the late reply . I really don't remeber the exact link. It was on Board Game Geek . In one of the threads of best print n play games.
Sorry agin
@@NahlaSid please don't apologise.....I also come from a part of the planet where Shipping cost + Import Duty(Customs Duty) make the game crazily expensive (Settlers of Catan would be 1/4 of my monthly salary)....still thanks for replying.....and sorry from my side to .....I also replied late😅
@@NahlaSid But once in a while if any one of friends or relatives are coming back to my country from the United States....I ask them to bring one or two game .....that would cost me 1/7 on my monthly salary.....but it alright.....I love playing these added bonus.....they don't hurt our eyes like PC or Mobile games😄
For print and play I am ok with it under 2 instances. #1 Publisher endorsed: this one is cut and dry, in most cases this is a cheaper version for both you and the Developer and since it is legit go to town with it. In general I prefer to just get the professionally produced stuff as it is more often of higher quality. The second instance I am ok with it is when there is no way to buy the game (or components) directly from the manufacturer. If a thing is out of print and has ballooned to insane costs on the secondary market then you are not taking money away from the people making the game just scalpers. In both instances I would prefer to get the actual game (or components) but needs must.
I'm essentially in the same boat as you on this. Root is a good example of instance number 1 - they released everything needed as a PnP for the first couple scenarios, but that still left the lion's share of the game in the box. The Dune issue, prior to the recent reprint, fits well with the second, since ANY OOP game, unless you mange to get a leftover copy or the like from a retailer, would never be attainable through proper distribution. That said, I would also make the argument that some games just aren't built well for PnP in general. Whether it's too many components, a complex mechanism, or requiring some large physical piece to make function properly (things like TI4, Tzolk'In, and Dimension come to mind), it eventually becomes too much of a hassle to try and print everything.
I love print and play getting too much fun building it!
That's and interesting point; there's not generally a lot to "build", but it can certainly be fun doing some card assembling and the like. I can see it.
Chronicle of crime is a great game and I can believe that it works fine as a pnp. You should absolutely try it. I don’t have any problems with pnp but if I like a game I will buy it after I have try it. The pnp can never give the same feeling as a “real” game. One problems with pnp game from America is that you insist to use letter format on paper and that makes it impossible to print dubbel sided since the pictures don’t match and letter format doesent sells outside of America.
I think the one thing I really like about Chronicles of Crime is that the PnP version is officially endorsed by the company - especially with a game like that where it's still in print and relatively easy to buy, going the PnP route can feel like cheating/stealing. You're right, though, that even with excellent materials (good cardstock, a quality printer, etc.), a PnP will never completely match the actual game. When it gets to the point of a PnP being nearly like the actual game, you've probably spent more than what the game costs.
Imagine life full of every kind od board game...
What else does anyone need
Exactly. nothing at all.
What websites can you recommend to search for free pnp games/files?
BoardGameGeek has a whole section on print and play - boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-play . That'd be a great place to start. Other than that you can look at individual companies/game sites to see if they have previews/etc. similar to the D&D essentials box.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience Thank you very much, will check it out.
Sorry man but I think it's really lazy to review print and play games for games that you haven't printed and played. The Hassel or ease of setup is part of the process and should be part of the review.
I totally get where you're coming from on this. In retrospect it would probably have been better to skip the topic, but I know an awful lot of people don't have much of a choice when it comes to how they can play/get games. Just the fact that some bigger companies have official/"sanctioned" PnP versions is wonderful for the community, regardless of how long it may take to prep and use.
Additionally, there seems to be an approximately linear relationship between a game's complexity and how much time and resources the PnP takes. Doesn't really correspond well to the "enjoyment time" though. Just my thoughts obviously, though.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience
Yeah you're right. I get how it's useful to some people. I don't think skipping the topic would be called for. I think I came into the video with the wrong expectations. This isn't titled as a "review", it's a spotlight video and works well as one.
I guess the issue is in the RUclips algorithm. I typed into YT search "print and play REVIEWS" so I was looking for a "is it worth my time?" review video. Meanwhile this is most useful as a "Fantastic games you can get for free" spotlight video. Which is exactly what it's titles and presented as.
I was more critical because I came into it with a certain expectation and didn't realize it wasn't called a 'review' until literally just right now.
@@dutyfreeadventures5924 No worries at all! The algorithm does sometimes act up; I don't have 'review' as a keyword on this one, so no idea how it would've come up. Unfortunate that it didn't give the info you were looking for.
I'd imagine there's a number of solid, more "proper" PnP dedicated videos and even channels out there, though. Hope that you got what you were looking for!
I like print and play because y can access to the game whereever y are
I think all the game need to be print and play to test it before y buy it
Agree 100%. It's a great way to have a "try before you buy" mechanism. So few games have that ability, short of P&P or playing during a game night or the like. Easier access is a huge aspect as well, to be sure.
Print and play games shine best for distributing playtest copies of a work in progress game (or a self published game) to more people. On the rare occasion I've played them, I find quality components in the actual game more desirable. Somewhat related topic: I wonder what your thoughts are on app versions of games?
You're 100% correct to be sure. Smaller publishers and/or self-published games can get grassroots type things going a lot more easily with a PnP style release. Obviously there's a lot less, if any, money to be made initially, but you do see things like the My Little Pony mod for Scythe becoming My Little Scythe. Can't argue with some results like that.
App versions I'm generally split on. I've done a couple videos on them - ruclips.net/video/sIG1YXDcGno/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/MtImUqvH7D8/видео.html. In generally, especially in our current climate, I think they're a great way to keep playing games, and I even participated in an online Cosmic Encounter tournament held in Tabletop Simulator. Kind of a way to go beyond the PnP, in that sense. That said, I do generally prefer being able to sit at a table and play.
Roll n write boardgames work best as print and plays no point paying that much for sheets of paper, pencils and some dice when you might not even like the game
Very true to be sure. That said, you can generally find roll n' write games that use dry or wet erase markers so you can continuously reuse things. Or potentially laminating cards/papers used for scoring to make them re-usable.
I did a ton of print and play. They are indestructible (you can always reprint as long as you document), and they’re unsellable (nobody trusts your skill).
If the retail is cheap why bother.
And the biggest hurdle is the box. You need to design the box.
PnP sounds cheap, but really isn't. Consider the glue alone. And the tools.
I usually don't pnp games that are out there as retail/ks. Some exceptions are The Phantom The Card game (I co-edited), and Diceborn Heroes (which I made in 2018 and the game came out in 2020).
You raise good points - the actual cost of printing (decent stock, ink/toner, not to mention time) can all end up being more than retail, though some people would likely argue that the experience is cathartic and worth it. Not to mention they don't NEED to have a box, though it certainly does help.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience Time is a factor indeed. For having pdfs to have them printed, you need to sort them by type then join them together to simplify the job for the printer guys.
Since it's only cost effective in the hundreds of prints, I usually send out a job twice a year. With some bad luck I stumble upon a nice thing after I sent out a job.
There are games out there that are totally worth it.
- T7C the demo. Try before you spend a fortune.
- Agent Decker: cheap pnp but so good, unavailable commercially.
- tons of fan scenarios on Arkham Central, just check for typos or be very tolerant of them (I am not).
- Warhammer quest ACG: tons of fan stuff.
- fan based AI for various games, usually with a deck of fan based ai cards.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience yep, the costs of making one vs mass production and automated factories.
The fan-based ones are certainly a good method to go for. Some of them are really cool, whether they're new mechanics (like the AI you mentioned) or just a re-skinning to a new them could be very cool, as well.
Dude, how did you get that thumbnail!? That's epic!
I mean... I don't know how epic the image is, but I make all my images myself. Just finding various images that fit the theme(s) and make my little pics from a separate camera grab.
I found this video pretty disappointing to be honest.
It's far from the top 5 pnp games, only 5 pnp games of titles you can buy in physical format.
The pnp world is VAST indeed with some amazingly talented designers and artists out there but I feel this video gives a negative perception of pnp games.
It feels a bit like having A List of the Top 3 Ice Creams but then only referencing the 3 in neapolitan ice cream.
Thanks for the feedback! It is true that my personal experiences in PnP is limited to those that are meant to be a "tester" or the like for a full version, and I know that doesn't nearly represent the breadth of true PnP, where many are dedicated solely thereto. It's kind of similar to discussing solo play games - most often people see and talk about bigger games that CAN be played solo, but there's a lot of them out there which are built to be solitaire-exclusive.
@@DannyCGamingFandomandScience would you like some suggestions for simple games you could print and try?
Some could be solo while others for between 1 to more players.
Sheet count of between 1 to 5 say.
Where is link
What link(s) are you looking for?