Pete after watching your channel for YEARS I finally bought my first metal lathe, a South Bend 9in 405-Y circa 1932! Of course your videos are exactly the first place I went refresh my knowledge. Thanks for being an inspiration and a great teacher!
Mr Pete, Since I don't know where to vote for the best teacher of all time I will just have to give you a thumbs up. Your teaching skills are inspiring. Why don't they make teachers like you anymore. Thanks for teaching all of us that never had the privilege of attending your class room.
Thanks for producing a superb set of machine shop videos that are both highly educational and fun to watch. I particularly like the fact that you take things slow and fully explain every detail. You are an exceptional instructor.
Great videos! I just purchased my first lathe and you have the best info for a wanna be machinist who knows nothing. Very much appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I recently bought a quart of 30 wt. non detergent oil for my 1929 Maytag 2 cycle washing machine engine, That quart of oil cost me a little over $7.00 including tax. I seen on your video the price was less than $4.00 before tax. I need to shop around more. As always, i am enjoying another one of you educational videos.
All of my machine tools are big and have internal lubricating passages. I have found the biggest problem to be the passages getting plugged up with muck over the years and then they don't oil. I blame this on the use of non detergent oils. After a good cleaning of the reservoirs I use John Deere Hy gard (about 20w) as the lube since it is good for gears, bushings, wet clutches and has special additives so it clings well to prevent rust.( a big problem on many multiple hundreds of thousand of dollar harvesters that still need protection till the next season) I have been doing this for 15 years in a pretty heavy use job shop and it has worked great for me. There is always a nice film on the ways and everything oils and keeps oiling with no plugging passages or dirty sumps. I am not saying this is right or what others should do just saying what works for me.
I use the JD hy gard also. put the low viscosity (low Temp) hy gard in my lathe headstock and the regular everywhere else even the ways. it sticks well and never have a problem with rusting.
As an aspiring engineer, I just picked up my Southbend 9" lathe today! My cross slide seems a bit stiff. I'm not really sure what I got myself into, but I really appreciate your information. I look forward to buying these oils and lubing my lathe up once I tear it apart and clean it up some. Thanks again all the way from Atlanta, Georgia!
Ordinary SAE 5W or 10W low sulphur acid oils are great for the bedways,(low drag,minimum corrosion),SAE 20/30/40(depending on your sheds temperature)are OK for the gearboxes(stay away from gear oils,they are stickier and produce drag). Great videos Sir,always a pleasure watching!
I just love the smell of the H&W spindle oil as well as their way oil. It’s got a sweet pleasant smell 👃 Seems to work great too. But it doesn’t come cheap. Not terribly expensive. Just well, you know what I mean. That was a very good breakdown of the difference between oils. Interesting indeed
I just bought my first lathe a Southbend 9a, I am putting together the items required to use it. Thanks for the great info it has been and is very helpful
Thank you for this video. My attempts at translating the South Bend data to what can be purchased today left me confused and doubting my results. This video clears things up.
Thank You Lyle....You have/are establishing a standard of excellence we all need to focus on (even on our off days when we all want to be sloppy & cut corners )....Keep it coming, U R GREAT !!!.....Jeff
For those of you who don't know about H&W out of Fort Wayne they have just about any Bridgeport replacement part you could ever need, and then some. I've ordered a bunch of stuff from them through the years for some our really old manual Bridgeport machines we have in our machine shop
I found the South Bend Way oil 14oz SKU SB1365 is on Grizzly 2016 catalogue page 743 or on-line. They have a 5 gal bucket too, but I think the 14oz will be enough for my two mini machines and vices.
This has always been a clear as mud murky subject for me and I thank you for taking the time to help those of us, like myself, who needed this clarification. The only question I have is if the new re-labeled Napa 20 wt motor oil is a go or no go as a "B" oil. Thanks again for this not boring subject.
Pete I don't find any of your videos boring. Point in fact, you've taught me quite a bit and given me some really cool projects to work on in my own shop. I run a Granite Max combo machine made by Smithy Industries. I've heard good and bad about these machines and perhaps you can weigh in with your own opinion about this machine. In fact, your opinion would be appreciated. I've not done a whole lot to modify the machine aside from updating to a quick change tool post. It has been serving me well so far in my budding business as a gunsmith. Anyway, I love your videos..!
Great information! It is always best to teach those from ground zero knowing that the experienced were there themselves once upon a time. I have the same 12" Atlas Craftsman lathe you have and I was trying to figure out what oil to get for gears.There was a change some years ago in oil specs that made selection confusing. I wish I had this information back a few months ago, that would have been great help. Can't wait to see the next video about how you lube the late. Pour it on! (pun intended)
Thank you Mr. Pete! I've been trying to find the "right" lubricants for my round-ram Bridgeport and Logan #200. I've discovered that reading the manuals is not much help since oil formulations have changed over the years. For example, the often recommended way oil Mobil Vactra #2 has been reformulated to eliminate the tacifiers that help it stick to vertical surfaces. A newer product called Vacuoline 1409 has the tacifiers and is closer in make-up to the Vactra #2 but unfortunately is not available in one-gallon containers that would be suitable for a home shop. Very confusing. As you said, any oil is probably better than none and in most home shops the different formulations may not make much difference. For the "right" lubricant you might have to contact the technical support staff, find out what is the best match for what is called for in your manual and discuss if there are other products with improved properties. Another example of modern products not suitable for older equipment is the super slippery, synthetic motor oils now available. They don't contain the zinc additive that is necessary for the conventional valve lifters and sliding surfaces of older engines.
Hi Lyle, nice video. The tech guy told us in way oil the primary additive was for "slip-stick" to allow easy start of travel on ways for precise movement. Most gears in a lathe are lightly loaded, so no need for extreme pressure additives and hence lighter viscosities . As always, keep it simple and don't mix lubes unless you know it is OK. I enjoyed this video very much, cheers.
mrpete222 Do you have any pictures of the items your students made? From the things I made in my junior high school metal shop close to 50 years ago I still have a dozen or so of the items I made. And I learned on a Southbend lathe. Metal shop was one of the best classes I had in school. It was a real world application of what I was learning in my math and science classes. Not sure if the situation is the is the same where you are. But I live in California and the schools here no longer teach metal, wood, auto or electronics. All of those beautiful shops have been turned into ugly classrooms. I'm sure the school district sold all of the equipment in the shops for scrap. So sad.
I'm sure there will be enough comments talking about modern equivalent of the three oils South Bend calls for... They are still made by Mobil and available through industrial supply places, even eBay. Price is surprisingly low... when I bought mine last year, it's less than $20 per gallon with free shipping. For the amount I use, a gallon probably lasts twice my life time lol. A: Velocite 10 www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Velocite-Oil-No-Series B: (If I remember right, SB 9A doesn't use B oil...., I use C on all oil holes) C: Mobil DTE heavy medium www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-DTE-Named-Series Way oil: Mobil Vactra No.2 www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Vactra-Oil-Numbered-Series Way oil is suppose to be stringy so it sticks to the ways better, especially vertical ones. The Vactra No.2 look like the one came with your Clausing, in terms of color and viscosity
The most important thing you said was; "ANY oil is better than none" That is SO true. In fact, it's infinitely better than none (yes, even motor oil) I'm afraid all my machines get general purpose machine oil.
When the instructor teaches the students learn. ..Thank you Mr. Pete.....saw 100°F listed on table for oils....might have been interesting to see oil viscosity at working temperatures they are designed for.....great series.
Best oil for the gearbox on my cinti tray top is Lucas synthetic it's clear and stays on the gears.The display at the store shows it climbing to the top gears and regular oil only went half way
Thank you for this, I needed to see it. I now have a much better idea of what's going on with lubrication. I'm on a project to put together an antique South Bend lathe inherited from my Dad, so I need all the help I can get.
thanks for video again..industrialy we used to buy shell 30 wt oil by the barrel...and gear oil from dodge oh not car company but dodge oil in calif it had consistancy of like 90 wt gear oil
Thanks for posting this and sharing!!! You covered a lot of ground, and at least have us heading in the right direction. As I'm looking at all these oils I think back to every oil company pushing there product. My is better no my is and so on. I can see why South Bend worded it they way they did. Will cooking oil work? Mineral oil is a oil I use a lot on my sharpening stones. You can ingest it so I thinking of some of it staying on the meat cutting edge. I know I have used a lot of petroleum jelly for many things over the years. if too thick a touch of a lighter grade oil and it thin right up. Generally no staining if it pushes out, easy enough to clean off later. Not sure about oil, but like grease I would guess some are not petroleum based, if fact I think they are a soap if you will. Non- detergent oil use to be motor oil. I think some companies just don't want the mix up, so they label it lubrication oil. All I can say is not all 30 weight non-detergent are the same. Some oil is better then no oil in an engine.. I would think it is just about true to say that here.
Chris from Clickspring on a Q&A www.clickspringprojects.com/about.html Owen: If you were limited to recommending one person or website on the Internet for other people to check out; who would that be? Chris: It's hard to go past Tubalcain isn't it? He's such a good communicator, so knowledgeable, and kind of funny too with his dry sense of humour. I have quite literally watched every single video he has made, they're just so full of information.
You mention the grizzly store in Springfield MO in this video. I'm literally sitting across the street from it in the Hy-Vee parking lot watching this video!! It's a small world sometimes!
A quick and dirty way to test viscosity of an oil is to place a clean steel plate at an angle, say 45° with lines marked across the slope at 0 and 6" and, using an eye dropper, measure the time it takes for a drop of oil to get from 0 to 6" in seconds. While not terribly accurate, it can help differentiate between different grades of oil in question, and by comparing a sample of unknown oil to a known oil, give a useful idea of acceptability.
Thank you for an excellent comment. I should make a video showing that. Are used to check the viscosity of paint with a viscosity meter. Just a tiny hole drilled in the bottom of a cup.
I suspect that the people who would find this boring, are the same ones using Motor oil to lube their machines. Very well presented, however I would be interested in the viscosity meter. Regards, Solomon
Hi, there are so many types of oil, it’s confusing. Years ago when I got my first SB lathe, I stopped at a local machine shop to get some oil. Here’s what I got: Castrol Hyspin AWS 32 I subsequently labeled it “B”, but wouldn’t it be more likely “C”? Also got generic Multipurpose Machine Oil 68 (turbine oil quality) SAE20. Im guessing that would be “B”?, and then I got Mobil Velocite 10. I would think that would be “A”? Keep up the great videos. I have learned a lot watching you.
Oil has come so far in the last 100 years, I think I would rather have some good synthetic oil made in 2020/21 rather than some out dated oil. One good argument is how Quaker state used to gum up and camshafts used to wear out in 40k miles and now they last 300k
Thanks MrPete, Good info. Would it be a "general " assumption be...The higher the RPM the lighter the oil? Hence lower RPM heavier oil. I agree with you on the 90 weight. I use it on the back gears and QCG box.
Mr. Pete, thank you for the oil expose. I personally use recommended oils but I still wonder: Everybody says do not use motor oil. Not too many say why. Closest I get to an explanation is that the detergents in motor oil keep particles in suspension (no flow through filter) causing more wear. Is there any evidence to support this? Considering the old machines with loose tolerances, would over-oiling with detergent oil be beneficial flushing out all the hidden particles? Back in the day when automobile engines were running with non-detergent oil, we were cautioned not to add detergent oil. Detergent would suspend the settled sludge perhaps breaking off chunks that would clog the oil passages in crank shaft and main bearing grooves. This is not the case in a lathe, except perhaps in the spindle bearings.
On the 9 and 10K lathe, and some others, they use a capillary oil system. This consists of an oil reservoir under each spindle bearing and a felt wick. The oil is pulled up into the felt by capillary action, and is distributed across the bearing surface. The excess oil is collected through 2 oil troughs at each end of the Bearing and allowed to flow back into the oil reservoir. If Non-detergent oil is used, any the dirt in this oil will settle to the bottom of this reservoir. if detergent oil is used, this dirt will be suspended in the oil and be deposited into the Oil wick itself. Eventually stopping up the wick. At that point not enough oil will flow to the bearings, which will damage the bearings. You do not want dirt suspended in the oil. Joe.
Hi Milan,. I know what you are saying. The best video I have seen on this is from Zynadu. I think it was called the most important thing in the workshop. I watched it a couple of times and started using his ideas and now I would completely agree. It will surprise you but it will answer your questions and is awesome. Dale in Canada
Another great video, lots of good information. And as you indicated, It is always best to use the recommended oils on your machine. But the gears in the gearbox do not always get the proper lubrication and It is very difficult to make sure the gears in the gearbox are properly lubricated with the standard oil. So I use a spray can of Motorcycle chain/open gear oil. Also a good substitute for way oil is chainsaw bar and chain oil, but only if the other is not available. and for those who are interested, lubrication charts are available for the South Bend Lathe at, www.wswells.com/data/data_index.htm Joe.
Maybe you might know Sir, Could you let me know what year my South Bend 9 inch Lathe Model A........... Serial #140877 might be from ?? Thank You !! AWESOME VIDEO !!
Wow. South bend lubrication video. I was horrified at the vintage of the lathe. My journey into metal machining started in 1963..! Your demonstration is great and practical. A little error testing the adhesive quality You didn't clean your fingers between tests in the latter half of the video. Mention of detergent property of oils didn't go far enough. Cutting and cooling oils used are often SOLUBLE in water and as such hold water promoting RUST ! not acceptable for bearing surfaces. I was surprised by your comment about the date you put on a bottle. (I was thinking, what a dummy, you didn't put the price on the bottle) Thank you for sharing your experience. m
Did you make the catch pan as well? Also, have you done, or could you do a video on using ball gauges? I have not had any luck finding any videos on them or the proper use. Thanks
Are you in Missouri Mr Pete? ive got a Atlas Craftsman that I bought, it needs some TLC, and I need to get rid of the 3 phase motor to a single, I started taking it apart, put new spindle bearings and races in, and now I just need to find a motor,and finish it up, really not sure of the condition of the end gears, gear box and the apron, lately I just haven't had the time to mess with it,,looking for someone that can find me a single phase motor, check out the rest of the machine and put it back together,,do you have in recommendation for me that could do this work without breaking the bank,, I'm wanting the machine for a hobby when I retire, that's still a few years away,,,thanks for any info,,,,im close to St louis
I am happy to say that ever since I've owned a lathe I've always used spindle oil weigh oil and a proper gear oil for oiling the gears everyday tapping off the apron when needed Etc I've always purchased the exact correct oil I have a Logan 10-in and it's still doing me well 15 years later and it was built in 1946. There's not a lot of machines alive today that can boast that they were born in 1946 and still functioning is they're supposed to. I did make an improvement on the drivetrain I put reservoirs to constantly add oil to the oil light bearings for the drive shaft. Those things seem to wear out way faster than they should and doing this has made them last longer of course I went through a period where I was using this machine 8 hours a day when I was laid off I was making small parts and selling them on eBay and they kept me going financially. I'm disabled now unfortunately and I don't get to use it as much as I want to also the price of metals has gone up due to tariffs that were imposed. As if aluminum wasn't expensive enough already
I'm looking for lubrication info for my 12in Atlas Craftsman lathe. I have the original manual and it says to lubricate everything with SAE number 20 oil and lubricate the gear teeth with Keystone number 122 gear lube. Keystone is no longer in business. What would be a good equivalent for the gear teeth? Also, will the Accel 20 weight non detergent work for all the other lubrication points? I have a gallon of vactra number 2, is that specifically for oiling ways or can it be used for spindle lubricant as well?
ABOUT Gits oilers. I have one that seems to have become clogged somewhere in the line. I've made a neoprene gasket to let me press my oil can firmly against the Gits oiler and squeeze multiple doses of oil in. There is usually some back pressure that expels some air and oil. I am considering using an air hose at 100 psi to try to blow out the whole thing. Alternately I could use a solvent. What do you think?
Thanks so much for all the info it's great! I just got a 13in south bend lathe. I was wondering if you could put a cutter in the chuck and some kind of rest on the moving part for your workpiece then use it like a mill? What would be the name of the thing that could hold the piece on the moving part? Do you have a video demonstrating that? Sorry I'm completely new at lathes just trying to get info.
To answer your question, yes, milling can be done in the lathe. You need a lathe milling vice and/or a milling cross slide. Look through Tubalcain's videos to find more about it. But if you want my advice, get yourself a proper milling machine instead. You will be much happier.
My 1920s lathe has nothing on lubrication. for the present time i have been using high quality steam engine bearing oil. it has quite a high viscosity. it seems to be working well there are no signs of damage. i thought a thicker oil would be a safer option. not sure what else to use really without risking damage.
The bearings should be adjusted very close on the headstock thus requiring very light oil. Here is good reading on it. www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3531.pdf
hello mrpete, i,m from the netherlands and love wachting all your educating video,s. isorry for my english, is not very good. i can see that you love to educate ! i watch almost every video. keep up the good work and hope you do it for many, many more years ! . btw, wich idiot give a thump down ? go play with little brother.. kind regards from holland.
Have you ever heard of "Roy Dean" teflon lube? My SB 13 chart says to use that on the back gear spindle every year or so. Just wondering what viscosity that might be, because I have never run across that kind of lube and I can't find anything from SB that would impart any particulars on the matter.
Roy Dean" teflon lube, Was specified for the cone pulley on some machines, it is actually a grease. More like super lube. Which is what I use. When I used oil, the cone pulley would tend to stick after a period of time. After lubricating, I would always have to turn it by hand several times and then re-lubricated again to make sure that it was properly lubricated. And yes I was using the recommended oil for this. With super lube, it never sticks and is very smooth. I also use super lube in my thread dial and my micrometer stop. Neither are heavy where points, But it has improved their usability considerably. The problem with the grease is making sure it gets into the spindle cone pulley. With oil, you just squirt some into the oil reservoir and it will get into the bearings. With grees, It needs to be pressurized, so you need a grease gun. And you have to make sure that it comes out the ends of the bearing, which is kind of difficult. you may be able to see it come out through the thrust bearing. The thrust bearing is not mentioned on any of the charts that I have seen. But if you are using oil, it needs lubrication every time you use the machine. This means removing the left side gear cover and manually lubricating It. if you use grease In this bearing, the grease will be retained for a longer period of time. just make sure you never use a Blow gun to remove chips, always use a vacuum cleaner, brush and rag. other neglected parts are the back gear assembly. These gears do not get enough lubricant. They need to be lubricated before each use. You can use gear lube, way oil, or type C oil. But I do not recommend using grease. even way oil may be too sticky for your application. Just make sure the gears are clean and free of chips. Joe.
Mr Pete, you have been nominated as a honorary Tribologist, Tribology is the study of science and engineering of interacting surfaces in relative motion, It includes the study and application of the principles of friction, lubrication and wear. Congratulations!
Bob Rees I use bar and chain oil as way oil, just due to complete lack of availability where i am. It is TOO sticky, and causes issues with the chips sticking, if nothing else. I use it so a film stays on the ways to prevent rust since I don't use my machine often, but if you can get it, proper way oil is far better.
I was thinking the same thing. Some of the higher grades (types) maybe a bad idea, some of the off brands are not so tacky, sticky. World of difference in them bar oils.
Good comparison of those mysterious Saybolt numbers to something more common. I actually have my original (mid-'60s) quart cans of SB types A, B, and C, but no SB way oil for some reason. Plus I have a gallon can of the type C. As you say, for the hobbyist/home user a quart of oil can last quite a long time. My chart (also mid-'60s) is framed (just the section that pictures the 9") and hangs on the wall behind the lathe. I didn't see the close-ups you mentioned of the pictures in the left column which my dad may have cut away when he framed the chart. Can you post them somewhere? Maybe as a follow-up to this video.
Pete after watching your channel for YEARS I finally bought my first metal lathe, a South Bend 9in 405-Y circa 1932! Of course your videos are exactly the first place I went refresh my knowledge.
Thanks for being an inspiration and a great teacher!
👍👍👍
Mr Pete, Since I don't know where to vote for the best teacher of all time I will just have to give you a thumbs up. Your teaching skills are inspiring. Why don't they make teachers like you anymore. Thanks for teaching all of us that never had the privilege of attending your class room.
Thanks you so much!!! & Thanks for watching
Mr. Pete, thank you for documenting everything. This body of work you're doing is a national treasure.
lol
Thanks for producing a superb set of machine shop videos that are both highly educational and fun to watch. I particularly like the fact that you take things slow and fully explain every detail. You are an exceptional instructor.
Great videos! I just purchased my first lathe and you have the best info for a wanna be machinist who knows nothing. Very much appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Thanks--I have many videos for you to watch
I didn't find that boring at all Pete. It's nice to know exactly what oils to use for specific parts on the lathe. Great video as always 👍👍👍
I just bought a south bend lathe and I appreciate the information . Thank you
👍
I recently bought a quart of 30 wt. non detergent oil for my 1929 Maytag 2 cycle washing machine engine, That quart of oil cost me a little over $7.00 including tax. I seen on your video the price was less than $4.00 before tax. I need to shop around more. As always, i am enjoying another one of you educational videos.
All of my machine tools are big and have internal lubricating passages. I have found the biggest problem to be the passages getting plugged up with muck over the years and then they don't oil. I blame this on the use of non detergent oils. After a good cleaning of the reservoirs I use John Deere Hy gard (about 20w) as the lube since it is good for gears, bushings, wet clutches and has special additives so it clings well to prevent rust.( a big problem on many multiple hundreds of thousand of dollar harvesters that still need protection till the next season) I have been doing this for 15 years in a pretty heavy use job shop and it has worked great for me. There is always a nice film on the ways and everything oils and keeps oiling with no plugging passages or dirty sumps. I am not saying this is right or what others should do just saying what works for me.
sounds like a great oil
I use the JD hy gard also. put the low viscosity (low Temp) hy gard in my lathe headstock and the regular everywhere else even the ways. it sticks well and never have a problem with rusting.
Thanks, Brian.
As an aspiring engineer, I just picked up my Southbend 9" lathe today! My cross slide seems a bit stiff. I'm not really sure what I got myself into, but I really appreciate your information. I look forward to buying these oils and lubing my lathe up once I tear it apart and clean it up some. Thanks again all the way from Atlanta, Georgia!
Ordinary SAE 5W or 10W low sulphur acid oils are great for the bedways,(low drag,minimum corrosion),SAE 20/30/40(depending on your sheds temperature)are OK for the gearboxes(stay away from gear oils,they are stickier and produce drag).
Great videos Sir,always a pleasure watching!
I just love the smell of the H&W spindle oil as well as their way oil. It’s got a sweet pleasant smell 👃
Seems to work great too. But it doesn’t come cheap. Not terribly expensive. Just well, you know what I mean. That was a very good breakdown of the difference between oils. Interesting indeed
I just bought my first lathe a Southbend 9a, I am putting together the items required to use it. Thanks for the great info it has been and is very helpful
👍
Thank you for this video. My attempts at translating the South Bend data to what can be purchased today left me confused and doubting my results. This video clears things up.
Thank You Lyle....You have/are establishing a standard of excellence we all need to focus on (even on our off days when we all want to be sloppy & cut corners )....Keep it coming, U R GREAT !!!.....Jeff
For those of you who don't know about H&W out of Fort Wayne they have just about any Bridgeport replacement part you could ever need, and then some. I've ordered a bunch of stuff from them through the years for some our really old manual Bridgeport machines we have in our machine shop
I found the South Bend Way oil 14oz SKU SB1365 is on Grizzly 2016 catalogue page 743 or on-line. They have a 5 gal bucket too, but I think the 14oz will be enough for my two mini machines and vices.
This has always been a clear as mud murky subject for me and I thank you for taking the time to help those of us, like myself, who needed this clarification. The only question I have is if the new re-labeled Napa 20 wt motor oil is a go or no go as a "B" oil. Thanks again for this not boring subject.
Pete I don't find any of your videos boring. Point in fact, you've taught me quite a bit and given me some really cool projects to work on in my own shop. I run a Granite Max combo machine made by Smithy Industries. I've heard good and bad about these machines and perhaps you can weigh in with your own opinion about this machine. In fact, your opinion would be appreciated. I've not done a whole lot to modify the machine aside from updating to a quick change tool post. It has been serving me well so far in my budding business as a gunsmith. Anyway, I love your videos..!
Great information! It is always best to teach those from ground zero knowing that the experienced were there themselves once upon a time. I have the same 12" Atlas Craftsman lathe you have and I was trying to figure out what oil to get for gears.There was a change some years ago in oil specs that made selection confusing. I wish I had this information back a few months ago, that would have been great help. Can't wait to see the next video about how you lube the late. Pour it on! (pun intended)
thanks for your video I just bought my first lathe southbend 9" model A and was wondering about the oils great information.
Thank you Mr. Pete! I've been trying to find the "right" lubricants for my round-ram Bridgeport and Logan #200. I've discovered that reading the manuals is not much help since oil formulations have changed over the years. For example, the often recommended way oil Mobil Vactra #2 has been reformulated to eliminate the tacifiers that help it stick to vertical surfaces. A newer product called Vacuoline 1409 has the tacifiers and is closer in make-up to the Vactra #2 but unfortunately is not available in one-gallon containers that would be suitable for a home shop. Very confusing. As you said, any oil is probably better than none and in most home shops the different formulations may not make much difference. For the "right" lubricant you might have to contact the technical support staff, find out what is the best match for what is called for in your manual and discuss if there are other products with improved properties. Another example of modern products not suitable for older equipment is the super slippery, synthetic motor oils now available. They don't contain the zinc additive that is necessary for the conventional valve lifters and sliding surfaces of older engines.
Hi Lyle, nice video. The tech guy told us in way oil the primary additive was for "slip-stick" to allow easy start of travel on ways for precise movement. Most gears in a lathe are lightly loaded, so no need for extreme pressure additives and hence lighter viscosities . As always, keep it simple and don't mix lubes unless you know it is OK.
I enjoyed this video very much, cheers.
You remind me of my 8th and 9th grade metal shop teacher. That man, like you are wonderful teachers.
Thank you very much for that wonderful complement
mrpete222 Do you have any pictures of the items your students made? From the things I made in my junior high school metal shop close to 50 years ago I still have a dozen or so of the items I made. And I learned on a Southbend lathe. Metal shop was one of the best classes I had in school. It was a real world application of what I was learning in my math and science classes.
Not sure if the situation is the is the same where you are. But I live in California and the schools here no longer teach metal, wood, auto or electronics. All of those beautiful shops have been turned into ugly classrooms. I'm sure the school district sold all of the equipment in the shops for scrap.
So sad.
I'm sure there will be enough comments talking about modern equivalent of the three oils South Bend calls for...
They are still made by Mobil and available through industrial supply places, even eBay. Price is surprisingly low... when I bought mine last year, it's less than $20 per gallon with free shipping. For the amount I use, a gallon probably lasts twice my life time lol.
A: Velocite 10 www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Velocite-Oil-No-Series
B: (If I remember right, SB 9A doesn't use B oil...., I use C on all oil holes)
C: Mobil DTE heavy medium www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-DTE-Named-Series
Way oil: Mobil Vactra No.2 www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Vactra-Oil-Numbered-Series
Way oil is suppose to be stringy so it sticks to the ways better, especially vertical ones. The Vactra No.2 look like the one came with your Clausing, in terms of color and viscosity
Very informative and helpful. Thank you Sir.
YES indeed! MANY THANKS MR. PETE.
The most important thing you said was;
"ANY oil is better than none"
That is SO true.
In fact, it's infinitely better than none (yes, even motor oil)
I'm afraid all my machines get general purpose machine oil.
When the instructor teaches the students learn. ..Thank you Mr. Pete.....saw 100°F listed on table for oils....might have been interesting to see oil viscosity at working temperatures they are designed for.....great series.
I believe that 100°F is not what they are "designed for" but rather a control temperature to make the test results comparatively relevant.
Best oil for the gearbox on my cinti tray top is Lucas synthetic it's clear and stays on the gears.The display at the store shows it climbing to the top gears and regular oil only went half way
In a pinch, chainsaw bar oil can be substituted for way oil. It has adhering properties similar to actual way oils.
Thank you for this, I needed to see it. I now have a much better idea of what's going on with lubrication. I'm on a project to put together an antique South Bend lathe inherited from my Dad, so I need all the help I can get.
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thanks for video again..industrialy we used to buy shell 30 wt oil by the barrel...and gear oil from dodge oh not car company but dodge oil in calif it had consistancy of like 90 wt gear oil
Best dang explanation of lathe oils on RUclips! Ultra informative! Thank you Mr. Pete..
Thanks for watching
not boring at all very informative
thanks tubalcain
Not boring at all. I agree some oil is better than none. Did you ever use non detergent in your 2 stroke gasoline mix?
Bridgeport calls for Mobil's Vactra 2 for use on the ways, as do other lathe manufacturers.
So far, I have found it only on 5 gallón Buckets.
Thanks for posting this and sharing!!! You covered a lot of ground, and at least have us heading in the right direction.
As I'm looking at all these oils I think back to every oil company pushing there product. My is better no my is and so on. I can see why South Bend worded it they way they did.
Will cooking oil work? Mineral oil is a oil I use a lot on my sharpening stones. You can ingest it so I thinking of some of it staying on the meat cutting edge.
I know I have used a lot of petroleum jelly for many things over the years. if too thick a touch of a lighter grade oil and it thin right up. Generally no staining if it pushes out, easy enough to clean off later.
Not sure about oil, but like grease I would guess some are not petroleum based, if fact I think they are a soap if you will.
Non- detergent oil use to be motor oil. I think some companies just don't want the mix up, so they label it lubrication oil.
All I can say is not all 30 weight non-detergent are the same.
Some oil is better then no oil in an engine.. I would think it is just about true to say that here.
Chris from Clickspring on a Q&A
www.clickspringprojects.com/about.html
Owen: If you were limited to recommending one person or website on the Internet for other people to check out; who would that be?
Chris: It's hard to go past Tubalcain isn't it? He's such a good communicator, so knowledgeable, and kind of funny
too with his dry sense of humour. I have quite literally watched every single video he has made, they're just so full of information.
Very informative and enjoyable, thank you!
Mr Pete, thanks for the great video, keep it up.
Looks like I have answered my own question. Part of the difference id interaction with coolants ( cutting oil, I expect) among others.
this is awesome! thanks for explaining all of this
You mention the grizzly store in Springfield MO in this video. I'm literally sitting across the street from it in the Hy-Vee parking lot watching this video!! It's a small world sometimes!
Very cool!
A quick and dirty way to test viscosity of an oil is to place a clean steel plate at an angle, say 45° with lines marked across the slope at 0 and 6" and, using an eye dropper, measure the time it takes for a drop of oil to get from 0 to 6" in seconds. While not terribly accurate, it can help differentiate between different grades of oil in question, and by comparing a sample of unknown oil to a known oil, give a useful idea of acceptability.
Thank you for an excellent comment. I should make a video showing that. Are used to check the viscosity of paint with a viscosity meter. Just a tiny hole drilled in the bottom of a cup.
I suspect that the people who would find this boring, are the same ones using Motor oil to lube their machines. Very well presented, however I would be interested in the viscosity meter. Regards, Solomon
Hi, there are so many types of oil, it’s confusing. Years ago when I got my first SB lathe, I stopped at a local machine shop to get some oil. Here’s what I got: Castrol Hyspin AWS 32 I subsequently labeled it “B”, but wouldn’t it be more likely “C”? Also got generic Multipurpose Machine Oil 68 (turbine oil quality) SAE20. Im guessing that would be “B”?, and then I got Mobil Velocite 10. I would think that would be “A”? Keep up the great videos. I have learned a lot watching you.
Oil has come so far in the last 100 years, I think I would rather have some good synthetic oil made in 2020/21 rather than some out dated oil. One good argument is how Quaker state used to gum up and camshafts used to wear out in 40k miles and now they last 300k
Way oils seem to be a lot like bar chain oil for chainsaws. And the South Bend oil sure looks and acts a lot like a Akita Bar Chain oil. . .
Thanks MrPete, Good info. Would it be a "general " assumption be...The higher the RPM the lighter the oil? Hence lower RPM heavier oil. I agree with you on the 90 weight. I use it on the back gears and QCG box.
Mr. Pete,
thank you for the oil expose. I personally use recommended oils but I still wonder:
Everybody says do not use motor oil. Not too many say why. Closest I get to an explanation is that the detergents in motor oil keep particles in suspension (no flow through filter) causing more wear. Is there any evidence to support this? Considering the old machines with loose tolerances, would over-oiling with detergent oil be beneficial flushing out all the hidden particles?
Back in the day when automobile engines were running with non-detergent oil, we were cautioned not to add detergent oil. Detergent would suspend the settled sludge perhaps breaking off chunks that would clog the oil passages in crank shaft and main bearing grooves. This is not the case in a lathe, except perhaps in the spindle bearings.
On the 9 and 10K lathe, and some others, they use a capillary oil system. This consists of an oil reservoir under each spindle bearing and a felt wick. The oil is pulled up into the felt by capillary action, and is distributed across the bearing surface. The excess oil is collected through 2 oil troughs at each end of the Bearing and allowed to flow back into the oil reservoir. If Non-detergent oil is used, any the dirt in this oil will settle to the bottom of this reservoir. if detergent oil is used, this dirt will be suspended in the oil and be deposited into the Oil wick itself. Eventually stopping up the wick. At that point not enough oil will flow to the bearings, which will damage the bearings. You do not want dirt suspended in the oil.
Joe.
Hi Milan,. I know what you are saying. The best video I have seen on this is from Zynadu. I think it was called the most important thing in the workshop. I watched it a couple of times and started using his ideas and now I would completely agree. It will surprise you but it will answer your questions and is awesome.
Dale in Canada
13:23 can i use this type on a lathe ways and lead screws from the compound ? I can't find way oil in my region ,maybe only a 20l canister
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Thanks for watching
My wife giggled when you mentioned your viscosity meter and asked "what doesn't he have"?
Another great video, lots of good information. And as you indicated, It is always best to use the recommended oils on your machine. But the gears in the gearbox do not always get the proper lubrication and It is very difficult to make sure the gears in the gearbox are properly lubricated with the standard oil. So I use a spray can of Motorcycle chain/open gear oil. Also a good substitute for way oil is chainsaw bar and chain oil, but only if the other is not available. and for those who are interested, lubrication charts are available for the South Bend Lathe at, www.wswells.com/data/data_index.htm
Joe.
Maybe you might know Sir, Could you let me know what year my South Bend 9 inch Lathe Model A........... Serial #140877 might be from ?? Thank You !! AWESOME VIDEO !!
I would have no way of knowing that period you would have to pay grizzly $20 and they will tell you
Wow. South bend lubrication video.
I was horrified at the vintage of the lathe.
My journey into metal machining started in 1963..!
Your demonstration is great and practical.
A little error testing the adhesive quality You didn't clean your fingers between tests in the latter half of the video.
Mention of detergent property of oils didn't go far enough.
Cutting and cooling oils used are often SOLUBLE in water and as such hold water promoting RUST ! not acceptable for bearing surfaces.
I was surprised by your comment about the date you put on a bottle. (I was thinking, what a dummy, you didn't put the price on the bottle)
Thank you for sharing your experience. m
Did you make the catch pan as well?
Also, have you done, or could you do a video on using ball gauges? I have not had any luck finding any videos on them or the proper use.
Thanks
been watching for three years or more
Are you in Missouri Mr Pete? ive got a Atlas Craftsman that I bought, it needs some TLC, and I need to get rid of the 3 phase motor to a single, I started taking it apart, put new spindle bearings and races in, and now I just need to find a motor,and finish it up, really not sure of the condition of the end gears, gear box and the apron, lately I just haven't had the time to mess with it,,looking for someone that can find me a single phase motor, check out the rest of the machine and put it back together,,do you have in recommendation for me that could do this work without breaking the bank,, I'm wanting the machine for a hobby when I retire, that's still a few years away,,,thanks for any info,,,,im close to St louis
Thanks for sharing sir...
Thanks for watching
I am happy to say that ever since I've owned a lathe I've always used spindle oil weigh oil and a proper gear oil for oiling the gears everyday tapping off the apron when needed Etc I've always purchased the exact correct oil I have a Logan 10-in and it's still doing me well 15 years later and it was built in 1946. There's not a lot of machines alive today that can boast that they were born in 1946 and still functioning is they're supposed to. I did make an improvement on the drivetrain I put reservoirs to constantly add oil to the oil light bearings for the drive shaft. Those things seem to wear out way faster than they should and doing this has made them last longer of course I went through a period where I was using this machine 8 hours a day when I was laid off I was making small parts and selling them on eBay and they kept me going financially. I'm disabled now unfortunately and I don't get to use it as much as I want to also the price of metals has gone up due to tariffs that were imposed. As if aluminum wasn't expensive enough already
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I'm looking for lubrication info for my 12in Atlas Craftsman lathe. I have the original manual and it says to lubricate everything with SAE number 20 oil and lubricate the gear teeth with Keystone number 122 gear lube. Keystone is no longer in business. What would be a good equivalent for the gear teeth? Also, will the Accel 20 weight non detergent work for all the other lubrication points? I have a gallon of vactra number 2, is that specifically for oiling ways or can it be used for spindle lubricant as well?
GM now uses 0/20 in v8 engine oil . only thing i know is non detergent used in air compressors and pony engines usually 30 w
ABOUT Gits oilers. I have one that seems to have become clogged somewhere in the line. I've made a neoprene gasket to let me press my oil can firmly against the Gits oiler and squeeze multiple doses of oil in. There is usually some back pressure that expels some air and oil. I am considering using an air hose at 100 psi to try to blow out the whole thing. Alternately I could use a solvent. What do you think?
I would be hesitant about forcing the The clog all the way through
I think you should do some videos with your brother...
quality content
Thanks so much for all the info it's great! I just got a 13in south bend lathe. I was wondering if you could put a cutter in the chuck and some kind of rest on the moving part for your workpiece then use it like a mill? What would be the name of the thing that could hold the piece on the moving part? Do you have a video demonstrating that? Sorry I'm completely new at lathes just trying to get info.
To answer your question, yes, milling can be done in the lathe. You need a lathe milling vice and/or a milling cross slide. Look through Tubalcain's videos to find more about it. But if you want my advice, get yourself a proper milling machine instead. You will be much happier.
Joe is right--a milling attachment is a compromise. I show one in several diff videos in use.
My 1920s lathe has nothing on lubrication. for the present time i have been using high quality steam engine bearing oil. it has quite a high viscosity. it seems to be working well there are no signs of damage. i thought a thicker oil would be a safer option. not sure what else to use really without risking damage.
I did try using spindle oil but it tends to spill out and the bearings will become dry very quickly
The bearings should be adjusted very close on the headstock thus requiring very light oil. Here is good reading on it. www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3531.pdf
WAY cool!!! thank you -- great stuff!!!
What is the difference between motor oil and machine oil of the same viscosity rating?
The measurement units are Saybolt-seconds. South Bend is now owned by the Chinese, I think.
Which oil would be used in the headstock of a HQ 400/3 lathe?
I am cleaning up an old craftsman drill press. I want to keep just the metal finish, what would be a good oil for keeping surface rust away.
Spray it with fluid film. It is a lanolin based rust protectant it sticks and lasts better than oil and doesn't bother your skin.
Bingo. Best rust preventer I have found
the fluid film I mean
Chainsaw bar oil
hello mrpete,
i,m from the netherlands and love wachting all your educating video,s.
isorry for my english, is not very good.
i can see that you love to educate !
i watch almost every video.
keep up the good work and hope you do it for many, many more years !
.
btw, wich idiot give a thump down ?
go play with little brother..
kind regards from holland.
Thanks for watching
Have you ever heard of "Roy Dean" teflon lube? My SB 13 chart says to use that on the back gear spindle every year or so. Just wondering what viscosity that might be, because I have never run across that kind of lube and I can't find anything from SB that would impart any particulars on the matter.
Roy Dean" teflon lube, Was specified for the cone pulley on some machines, it is actually a grease. More like super lube. Which is what I use. When I used oil, the cone pulley would tend to stick after a period of time. After lubricating, I would always have to turn it by hand several times and then re-lubricated again to make sure that it was properly lubricated. And yes I was using the recommended oil for this. With super lube, it never sticks and is very smooth. I also use super lube in my thread dial and my micrometer stop. Neither are heavy where points, But it has improved their usability considerably. The problem with the grease is making sure it gets into the spindle cone pulley. With oil, you just squirt some into the oil reservoir and it will get into the bearings. With grees, It needs to be pressurized, so you need a grease gun. And you have to make sure that it comes out the ends of the bearing, which is kind of difficult. you may be able to see it come out through the thrust bearing. The thrust bearing is not mentioned on any of the charts that I have seen. But if you are using oil, it needs lubrication every time you use the machine. This means removing the left side gear cover and manually lubricating It. if you use grease In this bearing, the grease will be retained for a longer period of time. just make sure you never use a Blow gun to remove chips, always use a vacuum cleaner, brush and rag. other neglected parts are the back gear assembly. These gears do not get enough lubricant. They need to be lubricated before each use. You can use gear lube, way oil, or type C oil. But I do not recommend using grease. even way oil may be too sticky for your application. Just make sure the gears are clean and free of chips.
Joe.
greetings brotherhood from Empusina engineering.indonesia. can i get a copy of the book, i really need the lubrication guide on the lathe i have
is it ok to use johnson paste wax on the metal for long term non use for during the cold winter months followed by oil?
I just use oil
you should send a scan of that chart to Vintage Machines
It is there already. www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4574
Hydrocarbon, I need to start my science kit again, I think it will allow me to make the rocket fuel
what is the part number for the napa brand 30wt oil?
Mr Pete, you have been nominated as a honorary Tribologist, Tribology is the study of science and engineering of interacting surfaces in relative motion, It includes the study and application of the principles of friction, lubrication and wear. Congratulations!
I am honored--thanks
A nice You Tube vid on the Reilang Oil Can was done by Kosmos Horology
Kind of hard to tell in a video, but the South Bend way oil seems very similar to bar oil for a chainsaw.
Actually some people do use bar oil on their ways.
Bob Rees I use bar and chain oil as way oil, just due to complete lack of availability where i am. It is TOO sticky, and causes issues with the chips sticking, if nothing else. I use it so a film stays on the ways to prevent rust since I don't use my machine often, but if you can get it, proper way oil is far better.
Bob Rees yep and it is as cheap as water. Can buy a gallon from Walmart for next to nothing
I was thinking the same thing. Some of the higher grades (types) maybe a bad idea, some of the off brands are not so tacky, sticky. World of difference in them bar oils.
Good comparison of those mysterious Saybolt numbers to something more common.
I actually have my original (mid-'60s) quart cans of SB types A, B, and C, but no SB way oil for some reason. Plus I have a gallon can of the type C. As you say, for the hobbyist/home user a quart of oil can last quite a long time. My chart (also mid-'60s) is framed (just the section that pictures the 9") and hangs on the wall behind the lathe. I didn't see the close-ups you mentioned of the pictures in the left column which my dad may have cut away when he framed the chart. Can you post them somewhere? Maybe as a follow-up to this video.
Thanks for watching
THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS MRPETE - LYLE
Thanks for watching
Theres quite abit of variables to a lathe i had no idea
Yes
If anyone is interesting in the Lubrication Chart he showed, you can get a pdf here:
www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4574
There's a few more than 10
ya daddy show me where to put that oil
Oil is oil. Any oil will work.
Lol