Very impressive video and narrative! Master piece of great director. Can't imagine that many train accidents were caused by signal error during that period of time.
To quote my late father, a railway signalman, wherever possible enquiries would blame a dead man - thus no arguments. Hull Paragon, although technically a signalman's error, was a literally million or mor to one chance - a 1.5 second 'window' in which two opposing locking levers could be free to move simultaneously - and, of course, it happened that day.
Knowing what we know today, when it comes to companies trying to cover their secrets around faulty vehicles and accidents causing deaths, they have no problem blaming the unfortunate drivers, pilots or ship captains. Willfully lieing about innocent people who, more often than not, have died in the accident and can't defend themselves or tell the truth.. We've seen and heard these things over the years.
It's sad that we cannot actually prove anything, but the aim was to ask the questions, give Joseph and his colleagues a voice, and to tell a human story. The sheer level of accidents in a four month period (Jan-April 1901) would be considered highly unacceptable today. And to your point, all (bar one) were blamed on the employees. Thank you so much for your input.
Point absolutely taken. Found some Irish locomotive footage but wasn't clear re copyright for it. Photos (and very accurate sketch) of actual accident itself are included at least :)
@@findirishfamily Don't forget all those Chinese narrow gauge 0-8-0s they were probably the most common engine shown. might the Irish railway records society have been able to help with pictures (and Knowladge)
The conclusion is unfortunate but the most plausible, If the three weren't talking they were apparently not paying attention. The repairs done to the engine are irrelevant boiler tubes have nothing to do with the braking. Steam engines required lots of maintenance and running repairs. Recurring problems like leaking tubes might have indicated the boiler need some concerted maintenance or heavy repair.Why was the second guard on the footplate instead of at his post? He should have been in his brake van to apply brakes, The age of the engine was nothing remarkable. In the early1960s British railways were operating in everyday revenue earning service some engines nearly 80 years old. The train almost certainly would not have had vacuum brakes needing pipes connecting in that era. If the driver, fireman, or guard on the footplate, (Driving cab) were trying to apply brakes they would have been seen struggling to wind the brakes on, and one of the three would have been sounding the whistle. The coroners court was correct in an open verdict. We cannot know for definite what happened on the footplate. but the train did runaway, and one guard was not at his post in his brake van where he could have applied that brake. Running mixed Passenger and freight in one train was considered bad practice even in 1900, especially if they were dropping off and picking up freight wagons on the way. Anyway who wants to make the journey between midnight and 6 pm. Daytime passenger trains would be much faster.
Thank you very much for your detailed feedback which is much appreciated. We don't know for sure what happened or what caused the accident. From a human point of view, it's difficult to fathom how someone could stand at the brake look straight ahead, and do absolutely nothing. No witnesses saw anyone talking. If there was a medical episode, you would think that would have been obvious too. If there was a mental episode, maybe that would explain someone freezing on the spot. There was no history of prior problems with the driver and his train. Regardless of 100 year old engines working well, the sheer level of major railway accidents back then, would raise a lot of questions today. And there were 13 major accidents in less than 4 months. The causes of 12 of them were apportioned on the employees. That does seem disproportionate. Understand your point on passenger vs freight trains, but the question was asked at the inquest as it was a recent change and it wasn't answered. There was some conflicting evidence which I did not include regarding the position of the guard, not to mention his complete inexperience (he replaced someone who was ill at Mallow). Other conflicting items examples are below: Timing may account for some, but not after the accident. 1.Jerry Healy (Gateman at Clash Level Crossing outside Tralee Station) ‘I am sure that the steam was turned off’. Vs Michael Manning (Guard at rear of train who survived collision)‘..I distinctly noticed that the steam was still turned on’. 2.Michael Manning ‘…the leading guard …I did not see him get into his van. It was quite light at the time and I had no difficulty seeing’. Vs Michael Gleeson signalman at Gortatlea ‘…I saw the front guard go into his van, and I did not see him come out again, and as far as I know, when the train left my station, the front guard was in the front van’. After the accident William Herd (Steam Raiser, Tralee Station) ‘3.'When I first examined the engine, the brake handle was in the ‘off’ position’ vs Mr Thomas Morris (Night Turner Engine Shed, Tralee Station)‘…I also noticed the position of the vacuum brake handle, the application valve was on’.
I saw this story as a publicity here on youtube and im sorry but i fail to see how this story is still relevant today.... Is it someone from your ancestry that you try to clear his name and defend his honor because you think the accident was not his fault? It certainly sound like it. There is plenty of more recent stories who fell into oblivion what so special about this one?? My great grandma died from spanish flu on a farm in 1918 but i cannot locate her grave because nobody that still alive knows where was that farm she got buried.
Totally understand that historical stories are not for everyone - people have all sorts of interests and hobbies and view different things as relevant. It is a human story, that was personally related to me, so that was the main interest. If you have the name of your grandma, any relatives and the general area where she lived, you never know. People have often discovered things unexpectedly :)
To me, coming from Cork, this is part of local history. Looking at the broader picture it ties in with other tragic incidents across Ireland and the UK. The majority happening in 1901 and with exception of 1 the staff were blamed inspite of no evidence. It was very convenient to blame the dead and not do a full investigation. All travesties of justice. For the record I am not a descendent of those held accountable in the Tralee crash.
very enjoyable video! very well put together!!
Thank you very much for your kind comments. Much appreciated :)
Very impressive video and narrative! Master piece of great director. Can't imagine that many train accidents were caused by signal error during that period of time.
Thank you so much Iggy. Much appreciated. Hope all is well with you :)
I'm from Tralee I'm 56 and never heard this story there should be a plaque to remember these brave 3 men who stood at there posts and lost there lives
That's a really lovely thought :)
To quote my late father, a railway signalman, wherever possible enquiries would blame a dead man - thus no arguments. Hull Paragon, although technically a signalman's error, was a literally million or mor to one chance - a 1.5 second 'window' in which two opposing locking levers could be free to move simultaneously - and, of course, it happened that day.
Knowing what we know today, when it comes to companies trying to cover their secrets around faulty vehicles and accidents causing deaths, they have no problem blaming the unfortunate drivers, pilots or ship captains. Willfully lieing about innocent people who, more often than not, have died in the accident and can't defend themselves or tell the truth.. We've seen and heard these things over the years.
It's sad that we cannot actually prove anything, but the aim was to ask the questions, give Joseph and his colleagues a voice, and to tell a human story. The sheer level of accidents in a four month period (Jan-April 1901) would be considered highly unacceptable today. And to your point, all (bar one) were blamed on the employees. Thank you so much for your input.
I can’t help but notice that you used a lot of English and American locomotives
There is plenty of footage of Irish locos about
Point absolutely taken. Found some Irish locomotive footage but wasn't clear re copyright for it. Photos (and very accurate sketch) of actual accident itself are included at least :)
@@findirishfamily Don't forget all those Chinese narrow gauge 0-8-0s they were probably the most common engine shown. might the Irish railway records society have been able to help with pictures (and Knowladge)
The conclusion is unfortunate but the most plausible, If the three weren't talking they were apparently not paying attention. The repairs done to the engine are irrelevant boiler tubes have nothing to do with the braking. Steam engines required lots of maintenance and running repairs. Recurring problems like leaking tubes might have indicated the boiler need some concerted maintenance or heavy repair.Why was the second guard on the footplate instead of at his post? He should have been in his brake van to apply brakes, The age of the engine was nothing remarkable. In the early1960s British railways were operating in everyday revenue earning service some engines nearly 80 years old. The train almost certainly would not have had vacuum brakes needing pipes connecting in that era. If the driver, fireman, or guard on the footplate, (Driving cab) were trying to apply brakes they would have been seen struggling to wind the brakes on, and one of the three would have been sounding the whistle. The coroners court was correct in an open verdict. We cannot know for definite what happened on the footplate. but the train did runaway, and one guard was not at his post in his brake van where he could have applied that brake. Running mixed Passenger and freight in one train was considered bad practice even in 1900, especially if they were dropping off and picking up freight wagons on the way. Anyway who wants to make the journey between midnight and 6 pm. Daytime passenger trains would be much faster.
Thank you very much for your detailed feedback which is much appreciated. We don't know for sure what happened or what caused the accident. From a human point of view, it's difficult to fathom how someone could stand at the brake look straight ahead, and do absolutely nothing. No witnesses saw anyone talking. If there was a medical episode, you would think that would have been obvious too. If there was a mental episode, maybe that would explain someone freezing on the spot. There was no history of prior problems with the driver and his train.
Regardless of 100 year old engines working well, the sheer level of major railway accidents back then, would raise a lot of questions today. And there were 13 major accidents in less than 4 months. The causes of 12 of them were apportioned on the employees. That does seem disproportionate. Understand your point on passenger vs freight trains, but the question was asked at the inquest as it was a recent change and it wasn't answered.
There was some conflicting evidence which I did not include regarding the position of the guard, not to mention his complete inexperience (he replaced someone who was ill at Mallow). Other conflicting items examples are below: Timing may account for some, but not after the accident.
1.Jerry Healy (Gateman at Clash Level Crossing outside Tralee Station) ‘I am sure that the steam was turned off’.
Vs
Michael Manning (Guard at rear of train who survived collision)‘..I distinctly noticed that the steam was still turned on’.
2.Michael Manning ‘…the leading guard …I did not see him get into his van. It was quite light at the time and I had no difficulty seeing’.
Vs
Michael Gleeson signalman at Gortatlea ‘…I saw the front guard go into his van, and I did not see him come out again, and as far as I know, when the train left my station, the front guard was in the front van’.
After the accident
William Herd (Steam Raiser, Tralee Station) ‘3.'When I first examined the engine, the brake handle was in the ‘off’ position’
vs
Mr Thomas Morris (Night Turner Engine Shed, Tralee Station)‘…I also noticed the position of the vacuum brake handle, the application valve was on’.
I don't think no one will ever know the real truth, it all seems a bit suss to me 🤔
I saw this story as a publicity here on youtube and im sorry but i fail to see how this story is still relevant today.... Is it someone from your ancestry that you try to clear his name and defend his honor because you think the accident was not his fault? It certainly sound like it. There is plenty of more recent stories who fell into oblivion what so special about this one?? My great grandma died from spanish flu on a farm in 1918 but i cannot locate her grave because nobody that still alive knows where was that farm she got buried.
Totally understand that historical stories are not for everyone - people have all sorts of interests and hobbies and view different things as relevant. It is a human story, that was personally related to me, so that was the main interest. If you have the name of your grandma, any relatives and the general area where she lived, you never know. People have often discovered things unexpectedly :)
To me, coming from Cork, this is part of local history. Looking at the broader picture it ties in with other tragic incidents across Ireland and the UK. The majority happening in 1901 and with exception of 1 the staff were blamed inspite of no evidence. It was very convenient to blame the dead and not do a full investigation. All travesties of justice. For the record I am not a descendent of those held accountable in the Tralee crash.